Ecocide in Grizzly Creek

Remember kids: people have no rights, plants do.
Freedom is slavery.

this is about people's rights. we need forests to fucking breathe... remember?

Hey yuk.. The only reason you are short of breath is from to many bong hits.

Ancients? Solcist weekend? Oh my lord, could you read anymore crap on driuds? And why the fuck are you wearing a mask?? If you wanna make a stand people, lay off the fantasy crap and LET US KNOW WHO THE FUCK YOU ARE!!!!

sorry , it should of been too, not 'to"

Why are there so many disruptive assholes trying to discredit environmental defense on this website? Do people get paid to do that or is it hobby?

Earth first!
We can log the other planets later.

I wonder why the lame comments? Is that your unsustainable methods of logging and the exposure your receiving have you all frustrated? If your industry is so sustainable, why is it that so many of you are unemployed? Start some real discussions and let's try to come up with a solution, so as to avoid being pawns by those suit people sitting in their high rise towers.

That is pretty funny Water; you are looking for a solution. Get it, Water-Solution?
Hey tree, did you ever think that the problem folks had with activists was that they disaggreed with them? It is the same as when activists disagree with science and industry. Not too difficult of a concept.
Back to the water,
I beleive that all folks in the forest products industry want a resolution. It is quite posible that activists want a solution as well. The fact is that the two sides are separated by quite a large philosophical gap.
While rates of harvest fluctuate according to timber age, there will always be trees where logging has or will occur. No desertification will occur when the trees are re-planted. While you may believe the forests are being cut faster than they should, but your belief does not make it a fact.
As for employment, more jobs have been lost due to the loss of available timber sources than anything else. The park and reserve purchases combined with lack of timber from national forests have killed several mills across the Pacific Northwest. The preservationist ideology is inconguous with those that make a living in the woods. So don't act as if you are concerned for the plight of the worker in this situation, because the actions of the forest activists have done nothing but malign them.

Log on

ok, so since it's susch a sustainable industry, and we only set aside 3200 acres for a half billion dollars, why did PL sell all it's trucks and contract out most if not all of it's logger. why slimmmiing of the work force? why did the workers allow the pension fund to be liquidated when chuckie took over? i don't see the workers at PL with a few exceptions, benefitting from the cut mentality set by the debt hurwitz owes on his timber bonds. gypsymouth, what's your knowledge about the timber bonds?

No informed person could say that the set asides of forest land in California are limited to the 7000 acres associated with the Headwaters. I am left to assume that you have a syndrome with makes comprehension difficult, and I hope they find a cure for that.
Pacific Lumber is limited to about 50% of their land for harvest after the headwaters deal.
But the issue goes well beyond PL. It is a statewide and national decline in available ground that continues the downward spiral in forest employment. Ask anyone for Orick, or the Eel River saw mills. The more ground you take away, the more folks can't support their families.

I know quite enough about the bond debt structure and the future rates of harvest. I also know why employees where laid off. Do you think that PL let loggers go because they were out of trees?
Or perhaps they may have felt that consultant firms would be able to do a more effective job. Most of the loggers that were "laid off" are still working on PL ground today.

That's how it is, Really.

Log on

P.L kicked me out of the house that they let me live in, and they surely haven't invited me back. now scotia is full of empty houses, and I'm homeless. maybe, i can find a steel workers job. Hey charlie, how about it?

You're a soul-less fool, gypsymoth. You have no poetry in you.

Laying the blame for poverty in 'timber country' on the environmentalists would be more convincing if poverty wasn't so widespread throughout America. Workers are having a hard time feeding their families because that's how capitalism works. Push people's faces in shit, make them grovel, and they'll do what they must to survive. If the only work available is anti-social and/or destructive, that's the work people will perform. But there's nothing virtuous about such a situation--or inevitable.

It's only the logic of capitalism that says that the forests must be destroyed for people to eat and meet other basic needs.

Arron,
I assume your statements regarding my lack of poetry are due to my "Man from Nantucket" book I published in the mid 80's. I felt there was some quality work there. I also ate T.S. Eliot's "Wasteland" last night for dinner. So, at least temporarily, I do have some poetry in me.
As for Capitalism, I am not going to argue resource allocation over the internet. That would be a waste of time. However, I would like to point out that under a socialist regime, if alot of the timber was off limtis, there would not be many jobs in the woods. And under a military dictatorship, the same would apply. I think a communist government would have the same problem. When you limit the resources available, you limit the jobs. It is not that hard to understand.
Perhaps, if still unclear I can post in LImerick form next time.

Log on