Publish to Newswire
Add an EventFrom the Open-Publishing Calendar
From the Open-Publishing Newswire
Indybay Feature
Bush Administration Begins Registering Thousands of Foreigners
Yesterday the Bush Administration pushed into high gear its nationwide dragnet to register nationals of Muslim countries.
The New York Times reported today:
I received the following urgent appeal from an anonymous immigrant via e-mail:LOS ANGELES, Dec. 16 — Lines began forming before dawn today outside the downtown federal building here as hundreds of men from five Muslim countries showed up to register with immigration authorities under a sweeping national dragnet designed to identify potential terrorists.
Attorney General John Ashcroft issued an order last month requiring virtually all male noncitizens over the age of 16 who come from 18 countries, mostly Arab and Muslim, to be interviewed, photographed and fingerprinted by federal authorities. The program affects tens of thousands of immigrants from those countries, most of whom hold valid work and study visas.
Those who fail to comply face criminal charges and immediate expulsion from the country.
This is an urgent message for all of you to act upon.
Since yesterday, December 16, 2002, many hundreds of people of Iranian decent been arrested by the US Immigration and Naturalization Service. These are people from 16 years to 70 years old. Many have been in the US legally or were even born in the US, and had been invited to renew, apply or be questioned by INS.
Many of these people are sick and have not been given any food to eat for the last 48 hours or given their primary rights in anything; those whom are sick and in need of medical attention have been denied their rights and not given the time to meet with their family members; therefore, this is a matter of international concern: an illegal act has been conducted by the judicial system here in the USA, the one that talks about human rights and flags its democratic views on other nations! The Iranians in prison were hand-cuffed and have even been foot-cuffed and treated in an inhuman way like killers and other criminals; they are being treated like the Japanese people sent to concentration camps during the Second World War. These people are being kept in various prisons and detention centers in the Los Angeles area and across the nation.
Please, this is urgent and needs to be dealt with promptly. One of the things that you could do is contact the CNN, BBC, ABC, Reuters Dagens Nyheter, Afton Bladet and Expressen and all other world news to inform them about this illegal act conducted by John Ashcroft and the US Department of Justice.
In the name of solidarity.
Add Your Comments
Comments
(Hide Comments)
http://www.sfmuseum.org/hist9/evacorder.html
Presidio of San Francisco, California
April 1, 1942
INSTRUCTIONS TO ALL PERSONS OF JAPANESE ANCESTRY
All Japanese persons, both alien and non-alien, will be evacuated from the above designated area by 12:00 o’clock noon Tuesday, April 7, 1942.
No Japanese person will be permitted to enter or leave the above described area after 8:00 a.m., Thursday, April 2, 1942, without obtaining special permission from the Provost Marshal at the Civil Control Station located at:
1701 Van Ness Avenue
San Francisco, California
...
Presidio of San Francisco, California
April 1, 1942
INSTRUCTIONS TO ALL PERSONS OF JAPANESE ANCESTRY
All Japanese persons, both alien and non-alien, will be evacuated from the above designated area by 12:00 o’clock noon Tuesday, April 7, 1942.
No Japanese person will be permitted to enter or leave the above described area after 8:00 a.m., Thursday, April 2, 1942, without obtaining special permission from the Provost Marshal at the Civil Control Station located at:
1701 Van Ness Avenue
San Francisco, California
...
When you're a guest of this country, how about obeying the laws, making sure your visa is up-to-date, etc.?
Just a thought.
PK
Just a thought.
PK
I think the whole point is that they were in compliance and they were still being treated like suspects. I think that's something Americans (we) don't get--instead of thinking ways to keep the terrorists out, perhaps think of ways to solve the probelms we've created and realized our "democracy" can reach so far before it turns into globalization. America is a far cry from a dictatorship, but what's the difference when people think like you?
Jll, were you talking about Pat's post? I think that was a pretty innocent remark he made.
You sound like you are in favor of totally open and unregulated borders. That is not a bad concept and may be working within the boundaries of the EU just as it does within the boundaries of the various states and I salute your idealism. That said, I think at this stage it is an unworkable ideal - open US borders would be chaos IMHO.
In the meanwhile Pat is perfectly correct in stating that guests to this country should keep their visa and passports up to date.
You sound like you are in favor of totally open and unregulated borders. That is not a bad concept and may be working within the boundaries of the EU just as it does within the boundaries of the various states and I salute your idealism. That said, I think at this stage it is an unworkable ideal - open US borders would be chaos IMHO.
In the meanwhile Pat is perfectly correct in stating that guests to this country should keep their visa and passports up to date.
you have got to be either kidding or brainwashed. what does updating visas have to do with registering, interviewing and even arresting innocent people? not being in the usa and reading the news and also opinions of american people really tells me that the us media has been successful in completely brainwashing the american people. you dont realize how ignorant you sound. sorry to be so blunt but i cant believe you are talking about the need to update visas as our country is openly practicing racism and filling the jails with even more innocent people of color.
Your all a guest in America. Perhaps the American Natives should be looking over your visa's. Get a grip on reality and think before you chirp.
The point is that many of the immigrants' visa applications were pending; i.e. they were attempting to keep them up to date but were foiled by government backlog. They were detained anyway.
And if you read the LA Times article, it's pretty clear that the conditions the detainees were put under were not reasonable, whether they were legal residents or not.
And if you read the LA Times article, it's pretty clear that the conditions the detainees were put under were not reasonable, whether they were legal residents or not.
For more information:
http://why-war.com/
Yes--We Euro-Americans are Immigrants if you really want to be truthful.
Who else will be rounded up and detained?
I am against terrorism and war, but the *real* terrorists don't volunteer to the INS!
This is very scary. A friend told me that Iranian JEWS are also being detained.
Who else will be rounded up and detained?
I am against terrorism and war, but the *real* terrorists don't volunteer to the INS!
This is very scary. A friend told me that Iranian JEWS are also being detained.
Ahem.. what part of English language do *you* not understand? This has nothing to do with visa (which they already have) - it is a "special registration" for "fingerprinting and photographing", and it is almost exclusively for muslims and North Koreans. I'm safe, I am Norwegian. Get the point? If this is what you call "law" and a law-abiding nation then you would have felt completely at home in Hitler's Germany. Saddam Hussein also has "laws" - that does not make Iraq a democracy. As for the USA, say no more.
What is so wrong about this registration? The US and probably every country in the world including Norway has had varying visa and residency requirements for non-citizens based on their country of citizenship. For example Singaporean citizens (non-white by the way) don't need visas to enter the US.
This registration is for non-citizens. Americans for Iranian or Arab descent are not registering. As for the non-citizens - well, they of course always have the option of going back to their home of citizenship or of completing the paperwork propertly.
Oh, by the way, it seems like it is acheiving one purpose at least. Huge numbers of the people showing up have visa violations of various types.
This registration is for non-citizens. Americans for Iranian or Arab descent are not registering. As for the non-citizens - well, they of course always have the option of going back to their home of citizenship or of completing the paperwork propertly.
Oh, by the way, it seems like it is acheiving one purpose at least. Huge numbers of the people showing up have visa violations of various types.
If we could crack down more on illegal immigration, it would solve the state's budget mess. Think of the welfare,health care and social services these people are costing us.
Now, someone here will respond that they pay taxes, but the truth is they probably don't due to the fact that the tax burden in California is shifted almost entirely onto those making more than $37K a year.
Now, someone here will respond that they pay taxes, but the truth is they probably don't due to the fact that the tax burden in California is shifted almost entirely onto those making more than $37K a year.
To Johnstone
"The US and probably every country in the world including Norway has had varying visa and residency requirements for non-citizens based on their country of citizenship"
Actually, no. Norway certainly restricts registration (by numbers) but does not *differentiate* people according to country. That is the big difference. It would be labelled racism here. Yes, the US has always had some peculiar rules, and it is not alone, but it does not take much imagination to see what image the US will get in the world when it learns that the US special treatment *mainly* aims at one religion: muslims.
In the bad old days Norway did once have laws preventing two groups from entering: Jews and gypsies. That was, mind you, in the 19th century.
"The US and probably every country in the world including Norway has had varying visa and residency requirements for non-citizens based on their country of citizenship"
Actually, no. Norway certainly restricts registration (by numbers) but does not *differentiate* people according to country. That is the big difference. It would be labelled racism here. Yes, the US has always had some peculiar rules, and it is not alone, but it does not take much imagination to see what image the US will get in the world when it learns that the US special treatment *mainly* aims at one religion: muslims.
In the bad old days Norway did once have laws preventing two groups from entering: Jews and gypsies. That was, mind you, in the 19th century.
So you are saying a visitor from Sudan faces exactly the same entry requirements to Norway as someone from Sweden?
By the way, how many people move to Norway each year? Does Norway have the immigration challenge faced by America and say France or UK? What % is non-white? As high as UK? or France? or Germany? I
The registration in question here is aimed at citizens of countries that are considered to sponsor terrorists. They are many moslem countries not on this list. North Korea is on this list. These citizens are being registered based on citizenship, not religion. As I believe an article here stated, non-moslems were being processed.
I don't see the argument that this is a moslem drag net.
Be that as it may, it is still simply an enforcement of existing laws and these laws were known and agreed to by all who arrived in the US legally.
By the way, how many people move to Norway each year? Does Norway have the immigration challenge faced by America and say France or UK? What % is non-white? As high as UK? or France? or Germany? I
The registration in question here is aimed at citizens of countries that are considered to sponsor terrorists. They are many moslem countries not on this list. North Korea is on this list. These citizens are being registered based on citizenship, not religion. As I believe an article here stated, non-moslems were being processed.
I don't see the argument that this is a moslem drag net.
Be that as it may, it is still simply an enforcement of existing laws and these laws were known and agreed to by all who arrived in the US legally.
>As I believe an article here stated, non-moslems were being processed.
I don't see the argument that this is a moslem drag net.<
processed... hmmm. were british citizens living in l.a. told to voluntarily show up for processing, and then involuntarily held? were germans? were irish? mexicans? guatemalans? australians?
were british citizens, involved in the movie industry, and here on various visas held? and are the pictures of protesters i have seen in the newspapers showing 1000's of people of british descent standing outside of INS processing centers?
no.
you say there is a focus on nations which may shelter terrorists, but that there is no dragnet. this is impossible to say. the terrorists in question are not the IRA or the basque separatists. they are muslim terrorists, from muslim countries, such as iran. they are the ones who showed up voluntarily, and were immediatly held. this IS the epitomy of a dragnet targeted at specific groups. you can go on and on trying to rationalize and apologize this away, but it doesn't change it.
I don't see the argument that this is a moslem drag net.<
processed... hmmm. were british citizens living in l.a. told to voluntarily show up for processing, and then involuntarily held? were germans? were irish? mexicans? guatemalans? australians?
were british citizens, involved in the movie industry, and here on various visas held? and are the pictures of protesters i have seen in the newspapers showing 1000's of people of british descent standing outside of INS processing centers?
no.
you say there is a focus on nations which may shelter terrorists, but that there is no dragnet. this is impossible to say. the terrorists in question are not the IRA or the basque separatists. they are muslim terrorists, from muslim countries, such as iran. they are the ones who showed up voluntarily, and were immediatly held. this IS the epitomy of a dragnet targeted at specific groups. you can go on and on trying to rationalize and apologize this away, but it doesn't change it.
astonshing how blind americans can be to issues of justice and truth when it concerns their own country.
There is nothing wrong with 'registering' but there certainly is something dramitically wrong with handcuffing and legcuffing someone who has come to be 'registered'. Then there is the issue of jailing people whilst bieng proccessed.
Its no wonder americans the world over are regarded as dumb and arrogant when they so clearly fail to recognise the shortcomings of their administration.
There is nothing wrong with 'registering' but there certainly is something dramitically wrong with handcuffing and legcuffing someone who has come to be 'registered'. Then there is the issue of jailing people whilst bieng proccessed.
Its no wonder americans the world over are regarded as dumb and arrogant when they so clearly fail to recognise the shortcomings of their administration.
PLLLEEEEZZEEEE,
Do not go down that tired and worn out road comparing the Irish and British response to the almost morbid IRA with Yeman. Have you ever been to Spain? Are you trying to argue that Spain "harbors" the basque terrorist groups? If you do you seriously need to read a bit and to travel.
And no, of course French citiizens weren't being registered - I don't recall France on any international list of terrorist supporting nations. That was a silly argument.
You can apologize for those who didn't bother keeping their visas up if you want. The facts are, and remain:
-- existing laws are being enforced.
-- these laws were known and agreed to by all visa holders.
-- if they chose not to obey these rule then they have only themselves to blame.
-- The INS is releasing the minor offenders on personal recognise now.
Just how damn hard is it to understand that someone has to keep their paperwork up when they travel? Someday you may travel and see what I mean - its an important and necessary function of internatinal travel.
Do not go down that tired and worn out road comparing the Irish and British response to the almost morbid IRA with Yeman. Have you ever been to Spain? Are you trying to argue that Spain "harbors" the basque terrorist groups? If you do you seriously need to read a bit and to travel.
And no, of course French citiizens weren't being registered - I don't recall France on any international list of terrorist supporting nations. That was a silly argument.
You can apologize for those who didn't bother keeping their visas up if you want. The facts are, and remain:
-- existing laws are being enforced.
-- these laws were known and agreed to by all visa holders.
-- if they chose not to obey these rule then they have only themselves to blame.
-- The INS is releasing the minor offenders on personal recognise now.
Just how damn hard is it to understand that someone has to keep their paperwork up when they travel? Someday you may travel and see what I mean - its an important and necessary function of internatinal travel.
... it's that some people, from certain countries, are arrested for not keeping their paper work in order, while other people, from other countries, are not arrested for not keeping their paper work in order. a dragnet is a dragnet. a double standard is a double standard. yes, many are being released. but why were THEY held? and others NOT HELD? for the same "violations"?
i have been overseas. for periods longer and purposes different than "tourist r&r". i had special papers made, and i kept them "in order." i know all about it. but what got me special handling and embarrasing deference was my american passport. a double standard in action. iranian passport, sorry, piss off. american passport, ahh, how may i help you...
i have been overseas. for periods longer and purposes different than "tourist r&r". i had special papers made, and i kept them "in order." i know all about it. but what got me special handling and embarrasing deference was my american passport. a double standard in action. iranian passport, sorry, piss off. american passport, ahh, how may i help you...
I think you must recognize that ther rules of the visa game in America changed n 9/11. And I think even you recognize that they had to.
I also think you are a bit naive to think that visa standards should be the same for everyone. How many Swedes or Singaporeans jump visa in the US? How many Americans take up jobs illegally in India (a country which, by the way, has strict illegal.
immigration laws). As a travelling American in most countries you are no risk. It is not worth going beyond ensuring citizenship and checking for customs.
The argument that these people from Iran are here illegalyl and the law is arresting them and that group from England may be here illegally and are not being searched is a bit disingenious (sp). The question is really were these people held because they violated their visa agreement. If so they have nothing to complain about. If people are being held for no reason at all - solid paperwork produced as required - no hits on criminal lists etc, then I share your anger. The fact that all these Swedes "got away" with it has no bearing on whether or not the ones caught did anyting illegal.
What figures do you have for people questioned yesterday and released with bad papers and those with the same bad paper and released.
... almost to the point of beating a dead horse, is that if america is going to round up foreigners, it had better round them all up, and it had better treat all of "them" the exact same way. because if it does not, it is behaving in a racist, unfair way. it is operating on a double standard. this is patently unfair. just as "driving while black" is patently unfair. this is operating on the principle of "guilty until proven innocent." i'm sorry, but that is not what i consider to be an "american value".
nor does riling people up make america any safer.
and secondly, if america is going to round up foreigners, it had better end the practice of "voluntary" checking in. as far as i know, all of these people were asked to show up. they were not ordered to. they showed up in good faith, in a voluntary fashion. if they had known they would be held, would they have shown up? would they have participated in a sting operation? no. so do away with the voluntary part of it. and just forcibly track down all offenders. or, notify all foreigners that they must, under penalty of law, show up and have their "papers checked." and secondly, that they may risk imprisonment. do this, and people will not feel as if their trust and good faith has been abused.
i have no figures on who was held and who was not. perhaps mexicans were asked to show up in good faith, or chinese as well. but if they were, i have seen no information that they were automatically arrested too. given all the information, for some reason men and women EXCLUSIVELY of middle eastern descent showed up, and were then immediately arrested and held. this was a specifically targeted dragnet, which treated one people differently than other people.
nor does riling people up make america any safer.
and secondly, if america is going to round up foreigners, it had better end the practice of "voluntary" checking in. as far as i know, all of these people were asked to show up. they were not ordered to. they showed up in good faith, in a voluntary fashion. if they had known they would be held, would they have shown up? would they have participated in a sting operation? no. so do away with the voluntary part of it. and just forcibly track down all offenders. or, notify all foreigners that they must, under penalty of law, show up and have their "papers checked." and secondly, that they may risk imprisonment. do this, and people will not feel as if their trust and good faith has been abused.
i have no figures on who was held and who was not. perhaps mexicans were asked to show up in good faith, or chinese as well. but if they were, i have seen no information that they were automatically arrested too. given all the information, for some reason men and women EXCLUSIVELY of middle eastern descent showed up, and were then immediately arrested and held. this was a specifically targeted dragnet, which treated one people differently than other people.
No matter what anyone says, the fact of the matter is that the reason people of middle-eastern descent are singled out for differential treatment is because they are easier to spot by the color of their skin. I am sure there are terrorists in France that are white, but we wouldn't be able to pick them out of a line up as a foreigner so we instead go for an easy target. As Timothy McVeigh proved, white people can be terrorists too. Us locking innocent people away like criminals, when all they are doing is violating an immigration law is disgusting to think about. It is a sociological fact that people are singled out based soley on their cultural background. Is that freedom? It doesn't seem like it to me. "No one is free when others are oppressed." Think about that before you go singing praises for a country that is behaving no better than it did in the 40's with innocent Japanese immigrants.
Wait, are we talking about the same people? My understanding is that all the people held are in violation of visa laws. Who are all these innocent you are talking about.
These are existing rules that these people knowingly violated. They are not innocent people.
These are existing rules that these people knowingly violated. They are not innocent people.
"almost to the point of beating a dead horse, is that if america is going to round up foreigners, it had better round them all up, "
Agreed, although 'round up' is a loaded term. I have not read any posts claiming the visa system is not screwed up. (feel free to counter). The INS is trying to correct things ( a bit late) by enforcing registration. This program is registration, not round up. Big difference. Only visa violations are processed and most of them have been released. I believe this is a start of a complete registration. It sounds like millions will be given amenesty and the others will be subject ot stricter enforcement of the law. It makes sense to start in an organized way and certainly citizens of countries sponsoring terrorism is a good place to begin - or do you have a proposal of how to tackle registration and enforcement of visa laws to everyone at once?
"and secondly, if america is going to round up foreigners, it had better end the practice of "voluntary" checking in. as far as i know, all of these people were asked to show up. they were not ordered to."
Actually, they were ordered to. There is nothing voluntary about this registration. The penalty for not showing up is immediate deportation. People who are caught later with "minor" violations will not be released shortly after investigation as these have been. The people who 'voluntarily' obeyed this regulation ARE being rewarded.
"people will not feel as if their trust and good faith has been abused. "
Similiar to the trust and good faith of the american people being abused by people who apply for visas and then do what they want? Sorry, don't see where we should be so upset about the feelings of these people who are breaking laws. Yes they are people and should be treated as such but they choose to break the law.
"for some reason men and women EXCLUSIVELY of middle eastern descent showed up, and were then immediately arrested and held. this was a specifically targeted dragnet, which treated one people differently than other people"
As shown this was not exclusively middle east. It was however, exclusively citizens of countries - including North Korea - that had state sponsored terrorism. People were not immeidately arrested, they were arrested after it was shown that they had visa problems. And yes, those with visa violations were treated differently from other people.
Agreed, although 'round up' is a loaded term. I have not read any posts claiming the visa system is not screwed up. (feel free to counter). The INS is trying to correct things ( a bit late) by enforcing registration. This program is registration, not round up. Big difference. Only visa violations are processed and most of them have been released. I believe this is a start of a complete registration. It sounds like millions will be given amenesty and the others will be subject ot stricter enforcement of the law. It makes sense to start in an organized way and certainly citizens of countries sponsoring terrorism is a good place to begin - or do you have a proposal of how to tackle registration and enforcement of visa laws to everyone at once?
"and secondly, if america is going to round up foreigners, it had better end the practice of "voluntary" checking in. as far as i know, all of these people were asked to show up. they were not ordered to."
Actually, they were ordered to. There is nothing voluntary about this registration. The penalty for not showing up is immediate deportation. People who are caught later with "minor" violations will not be released shortly after investigation as these have been. The people who 'voluntarily' obeyed this regulation ARE being rewarded.
"people will not feel as if their trust and good faith has been abused. "
Similiar to the trust and good faith of the american people being abused by people who apply for visas and then do what they want? Sorry, don't see where we should be so upset about the feelings of these people who are breaking laws. Yes they are people and should be treated as such but they choose to break the law.
"for some reason men and women EXCLUSIVELY of middle eastern descent showed up, and were then immediately arrested and held. this was a specifically targeted dragnet, which treated one people differently than other people"
As shown this was not exclusively middle east. It was however, exclusively citizens of countries - including North Korea - that had state sponsored terrorism. People were not immeidately arrested, they were arrested after it was shown that they had visa problems. And yes, those with visa violations were treated differently from other people.
I saw that a few tekkies from Silicon Valley were among those rounded up. Why are foreigners being allowed to have high-tech jobs here when unemployment in Santa Clara is above 8%?
The industry's argument was that there weren't enough people to fill high tech jobs because of a manpower shortage. Now that so many people are out of work, these jobs should be returned to U.S. citizens.
I think Canada is a good example of a country to emulate. They are very tolerant and progressive, yet they take care of their own. For example, I couldn't just go up there and take a job from a Canadian. Why does the U.S. allow this to occur?
The industry's argument was that there weren't enough people to fill high tech jobs because of a manpower shortage. Now that so many people are out of work, these jobs should be returned to U.S. citizens.
I think Canada is a good example of a country to emulate. They are very tolerant and progressive, yet they take care of their own. For example, I couldn't just go up there and take a job from a Canadian. Why does the U.S. allow this to occur?
>>> were british citizens, involved in the movie industry, and here on various visas held? <<<<
That's the point! The Visa's of the people rounded up had EXPIRED. Prove to me that a single tourist, student, or anyone else with a valid Visa was rounded up. It's simply not true.
People were breaking the law and the government acted. Do you think if you went to another country and broke their laws that they would just ignore it?
That's the point! The Visa's of the people rounded up had EXPIRED. Prove to me that a single tourist, student, or anyone else with a valid Visa was rounded up. It's simply not true.
People were breaking the law and the government acted. Do you think if you went to another country and broke their laws that they would just ignore it?
... so people with brown skin break visa laws, and those with pink skin don't break visa laws? if all "foreigners" of all different races and ethnicities in california were called to register (i have seen no evidence that other people from other nations were called), why were only middle eastern "foreigners" held? is it because of all the multitudes of people living in california, through some strange coincidence, only the people of the middle eastern "version" broke their visa laws?
no. bullshit. said it before, i'll say it again. this was a dragnet targeted at a specific group of people. a dragnet that treated one ethnicity and race differently than all others.
and how could i get "everyone who was foreigner" to come in? easy. it's not rocket science, genuises. send out the order to EVERYONE with a visa, regardless of race or ethnicity. then specific races would not be specifically targeted and specifically held.
no. bullshit. said it before, i'll say it again. this was a dragnet targeted at a specific group of people. a dragnet that treated one ethnicity and race differently than all others.
and how could i get "everyone who was foreigner" to come in? easy. it's not rocket science, genuises. send out the order to EVERYONE with a visa, regardless of race or ethnicity. then specific races would not be specifically targeted and specifically held.
A few questions. Are the immigrants from "terrorist sponsoring states" the biggest piece of the "illegal" population. Are they the immigrants causing major cultural "CHAOS!" in the US? Are you willing to argue that American foriegn policy is about boosting the third world and the support of democratic governments that offer a way of life comparable to ours? The U.S. need to support International equality. We're living in the top neo-colonial/imperial nation that controls the world. why wouldn't people want to get the hell out of their vulnerable countries and come live here where? Not that America has the highest standard of living or anything...
"this thing here", I am afraid I don't share you belief in open borders and unregulated immigration. I also don't understand your instance on making this a race issue. It may interest you to know that UK Subjects come in many races as do German and Singaporean citizens. Since you are so hung up on 'race' and 'skin color' as defing people, you may also want to look at or visit the mid-east and see that middle eastern people come in many 'colors' including both pink and brown. The middle east is not as monochromatic as you may think. Travel, read, study.
In any case, the issue again is citizens of countries which sponsor terrorism. I don't know of any european country that does this - so I don't buy the argument that UK or Spain are sponsoring the IRA or ETA but some middle eastern and asian countries do and logically seems the places to start in getting regulated immigrantion in place.
While Matt may have a point in his argument that immigrants from terrorist sponsoring states are causing cultural chaos in America, I don't think that is germane to the argument here. For the record, I am not afraid of the 'cultural chaos' - I think the US melting pot is strong. I am concerned however, about the exploitation of immigrants that comes about through illegal immigration. I am surprised to see so many people posting arguments for open door - unregulated immigration in line with Republican big business and big farm corporations who have been working to keep this window open in order to fill their shops and fields with cheap labor.
Again, though, these arguments are outside the issue at hand. This registration process is one piece of a larger effort. It is not focused on race or religion but on countries identified as sponsoring terrorism. This is a logical place to start in correcting the immigration mess we now have. The people who were held did seem to have visa violations.
In any case, the issue again is citizens of countries which sponsor terrorism. I don't know of any european country that does this - so I don't buy the argument that UK or Spain are sponsoring the IRA or ETA but some middle eastern and asian countries do and logically seems the places to start in getting regulated immigrantion in place.
While Matt may have a point in his argument that immigrants from terrorist sponsoring states are causing cultural chaos in America, I don't think that is germane to the argument here. For the record, I am not afraid of the 'cultural chaos' - I think the US melting pot is strong. I am concerned however, about the exploitation of immigrants that comes about through illegal immigration. I am surprised to see so many people posting arguments for open door - unregulated immigration in line with Republican big business and big farm corporations who have been working to keep this window open in order to fill their shops and fields with cheap labor.
Again, though, these arguments are outside the issue at hand. This registration process is one piece of a larger effort. It is not focused on race or religion but on countries identified as sponsoring terrorism. This is a logical place to start in correcting the immigration mess we now have. The people who were held did seem to have visa violations.
I am confused about this fixation on race. Looking back at the posts I don't see anyone except open border advocates like "this thing here" who are making any claim that people of a certain skin color are more or less likely to violate their visa status. I am not surprised though that people are playing the race card here - can anyone argue that UK subjects are more likely to be visa violators than citizens of Yeman or the Sudan? Are there communities of
Matt's argue is also a bit off the mark although I have some sympathy with his argument that immigrants from the terrorist states are contibuting to cultural choas in America. He should keep in mind however, that this is not an issue of being anti-immigrant. It is simply one of regulating immigration. Regulated immigration will improve the lot of immigrants in America as it will remove a factor in their exploitation. Is Matt in line with Republican big-business and large farm corporations in advocating open and unregulated borders? These are the only people who gain from a policy of tolerating illegal immigration as opposed to liberal but regulated immigration.
I do agree that an argument could be made that all visitors to the US should have the same tough visa requirements - but I thing the costs of this weighed against othe odds of large numbers of Swedes, Danes, Swiss, New Zealanders and Singaporeans coming into this country and staying illegally is not worth the effort.
Matt's argue is also a bit off the mark although I have some sympathy with his argument that immigrants from the terrorist states are contibuting to cultural choas in America. He should keep in mind however, that this is not an issue of being anti-immigrant. It is simply one of regulating immigration. Regulated immigration will improve the lot of immigrants in America as it will remove a factor in their exploitation. Is Matt in line with Republican big-business and large farm corporations in advocating open and unregulated borders? These are the only people who gain from a policy of tolerating illegal immigration as opposed to liberal but regulated immigration.
I do agree that an argument could be made that all visitors to the US should have the same tough visa requirements - but I thing the costs of this weighed against othe odds of large numbers of Swedes, Danes, Swiss, New Zealanders and Singaporeans coming into this country and staying illegally is not worth the effort.
sorry for the two posts - thought one was lost in the etherworld. Surprisingly, the second one is the 'lost' one.
You're wrong to think that Republicans big-buisness and large farm corporations are the ONLY people who gain from open and unregulated borders. There are people in other countries that litterally can't survive in the countries they are living in. Its safe to say that American Corporations often promote the exploitation of people in distant lands. I admit I don't know a lot on the topic of immigration (where can I find out about laws, and etc?) but I do know that many people will be sent back to their home countries because of this bull shit attempt at enforcing immigration laws. Why aren't people registering? Is it likely that they will be booted? Maybe its just not worth the risk. These people are exploited here as well but to a lesser extent and they would benifit from unregulated borders. I'm not taking sides with greedy capitalist ass holes I'm trying to be empathetic, ok? It would be easy for me to say "Yes Johnstone. we're the lucky ones. send them all home to die."
If our labor laws applied to noncitizens, why wouldn't unregulated borders work?
Stop blaming the victims of unjust immigration laws and corrupt foriegn countries and start blaming the farming corporations and the american government for not doing a good enough job regulating those corporations.
This recent dragnet has less to do with enforcing imigration laws than it does to do with showing the American people who our enemy is. The enemy doesn't have to be a terrorist it just has to come from a country that sponsors terrorism. Thats the only reason why this is going on. Lets blame 9/11 on the INS instead of foriegn policy.
If our labor laws applied to noncitizens, why wouldn't unregulated borders work?
Stop blaming the victims of unjust immigration laws and corrupt foriegn countries and start blaming the farming corporations and the american government for not doing a good enough job regulating those corporations.
This recent dragnet has less to do with enforcing imigration laws than it does to do with showing the American people who our enemy is. The enemy doesn't have to be a terrorist it just has to come from a country that sponsors terrorism. Thats the only reason why this is going on. Lets blame 9/11 on the INS instead of foriegn policy.
You're wrong to think that Republicans big-buisness and large farm corporations are the ONLY people who gain from open and unregulated borders. There are people in other countries that litterally can't survive in the countries they are living in. Its safe to say that American Corporations often promote the exploitation of people in distant lands. I admit I don't know a lot on the topic of immigration (where can I find out about laws, and etc?) but I do know that many people will be sent back to their home countries because of this bull shit attempt at enforcing immigration laws. Why aren't people registering? Is it likely that they will be booted? Maybe its just not worth the risk. These people are exploited here as well but to a lesser extent and they would benifit from unregulated borders. I'm not taking sides with greedy capitalist ass holes I'm trying to be empathetic, ok? It would be easy for me to say "Yes Johnstone. we're the lucky ones. send them all home to die."
If our labor laws applied to noncitizens, why wouldn't unregulated borders work?
Stop blaming the victims of unjust immigration laws and corrupt foriegn countries and start blaming the farming corporations and the american government for not doing a good enough job regulating those corporations.
This recent dragnet has less to do with enforcing imigration laws than it does to do with showing the American people who our enemy is. The enemy doesn't have to be a terrorist it just has to come from a country that sponsors terrorism. Thats the only reason why this is going on. "I blame 9/11 on the INS instead of foriegn policy." they want us to say.
If our labor laws applied to noncitizens, why wouldn't unregulated borders work?
Stop blaming the victims of unjust immigration laws and corrupt foriegn countries and start blaming the farming corporations and the american government for not doing a good enough job regulating those corporations.
This recent dragnet has less to do with enforcing imigration laws than it does to do with showing the American people who our enemy is. The enemy doesn't have to be a terrorist it just has to come from a country that sponsors terrorism. Thats the only reason why this is going on. "I blame 9/11 on the INS instead of foriegn policy." they want us to say.
OK now I get to apologize for sending two posts... I'm such a dumb ass
There never was a "manpower shortage". The whole H1-B program was used to get foreigners here and hold them "hostage" to the companies they work for. By doing this, corporations were under less pressure to give them raises (because they couldn't switch jobs to other employers) and therefore lowered the salaries for everyone in those fields.
My opinion is, sure, let in talented Indians and Chinese. But if you've decided that they're valuable enough to drive Silicon Valley, don't mess around with H1-B's; just give them green cards right off the bat.
To answer your question, why does the US allow this to occur? Because the rich and corporations run the country, and it's in their interest to pits groups of workers against each other (for example, US citizens vs. immigrants). A trap which you have fallen right into. The immigrant workers are not our enemy, the corporate elite are.
My opinion is, sure, let in talented Indians and Chinese. But if you've decided that they're valuable enough to drive Silicon Valley, don't mess around with H1-B's; just give them green cards right off the bat.
To answer your question, why does the US allow this to occur? Because the rich and corporations run the country, and it's in their interest to pits groups of workers against each other (for example, US citizens vs. immigrants). A trap which you have fallen right into. The immigrant workers are not our enemy, the corporate elite are.
Under the cloak of helping the oppressed and protecting our interests- the government of the United States regularly arrests, persecutes and even kills those who will defy or question those in power. Our you so niave to think that it would not round up any muslim for interrogation,and do it with no regard for that persons rights-they will kill you if it becomes necessary in their minds. It is amazing to me the ignorance or maybe not wanting to know the truth posture of most in this country- The Patriot act is a ruse to spy on all Americans-it legitematizes Hoover's use of the FBI to spy on any American citizen, it is our answer to the German Gestapo. I know how those in power view those who appear weak and defenseless.
Do you how many Muslims have had to face bigotry from our "All men are created equal" government? Over 500 were unjustly held at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba for days and even their families didn't know what happened to them. Even now, 16 are still being held and when they appealed, the judges rejected it b/c they are aliens and not "on sovereign American soil" so the constitution doesn't have to be upheld for them! This is the bs excuse for rounding up innocent people and throwing them in jail.
Besides this has just made fundamentalists in the mideast angry. If they didn't have a good enough reason for destroying the US before, they do now, because we have just proved that we are unjust bigots and we are a threat to the world, just like they've always thought.
Besides this has just made fundamentalists in the mideast angry. If they didn't have a good enough reason for destroying the US before, they do now, because we have just proved that we are unjust bigots and we are a threat to the world, just like they've always thought.
Well what I would like to know is when is a child considered an American Citizen? I am an American Citizen and my daughters father is Legal Resident but the Consulars office in which i applied for tourist visas told me that my daughter is a citizen of what ever country her father was born in. How can that be possible? She was born here and her father and I are both legal residents/citizens of this country. Can someone tell me who I can talk to. I have vacation planned in two weeks and they are telling me now she is a citizen of Brazil and does not have the right to a tourist visa. Also, she has already been issued a tourist visa in which expired.
We are 100% volunteer and depend on your participation to sustain our efforts!
Donate
$270.00 donated
in the past month
Get Involved
If you'd like to help with maintaining or developing the website, contact us.
Publish
Publish your stories and upcoming events on Indybay.
Topics
More
Search Indybay's Archives
Advanced Search
►
▼
IMC Network