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Israel is Number One in so many ways- including most spies in the US
James Bond, Man from U.N.C.L.E., Secret Agent Man, all these fantasy spy films peaked our imagainations. Now, reality is far stranger and scarier than fiction! Who needs fantasy these days when you can read about real life sinister spies living here amongst us in the United States. As with many things, Israel leads the list of the biggest spy ring ever exposed in the US.
It's amazing. Israel leads the whole world in so many things! Here's just a partial list:
Number One country for CYBER TERRORISTS, followed by Hong Kong, and France.
Number One country for the only APARTHEID in existence in today's modern world.
Number One country for the last remnant of European colonialism, where the indigenous people, the Palestinians, are not only subjugated, but constantly pressured to MOVE or do something desparate like blow themselves up.
Number One recipient of US tax dollars by far!!! Besides the usual $6 Billion a year, right now they are negotiating for another $14 Billion!!!
Number One for its Lobby groups and PACs in the US.
Number One for spreading it's propaganda in the US. What other country employs a full time PR firm to keep reminding us that Israel is "the only democracy in the Middle East"? I guess they think if they tell us enough times, we'll actually believe them!
Number One in the number of those of dual citizenship as in "American-Israeli".
Number One in number of spies here in the USA. There is a ton of information on the Israeli spies and Israeli duplicity on this website: http://antiwar.com/israelfiles2.html
With this kind of stuff, who needs to rent videos? Scary stuff.
Our government is seriously compromising Americans' best interests by supporting the apartheid country of Israel. We must send in troops, like we did in Kosovo, to ensure that Israel is transformed into a true democracy, with equal rights for all, including all 5.5 Palestinian refugees. And the country should be renamed Palestine-Israel. It was Palestine for thousands of years, and there is absolutely no good reason why Palestinians should have to give up that name, just because the European UN decided so. Time to create something new. Make new history. This time with a sense of true justice for all, including the indigenous Palestinian people.
Number One country for CYBER TERRORISTS, followed by Hong Kong, and France.
Number One country for the only APARTHEID in existence in today's modern world.
Number One country for the last remnant of European colonialism, where the indigenous people, the Palestinians, are not only subjugated, but constantly pressured to MOVE or do something desparate like blow themselves up.
Number One recipient of US tax dollars by far!!! Besides the usual $6 Billion a year, right now they are negotiating for another $14 Billion!!!
Number One for its Lobby groups and PACs in the US.
Number One for spreading it's propaganda in the US. What other country employs a full time PR firm to keep reminding us that Israel is "the only democracy in the Middle East"? I guess they think if they tell us enough times, we'll actually believe them!
Number One in the number of those of dual citizenship as in "American-Israeli".
Number One in number of spies here in the USA. There is a ton of information on the Israeli spies and Israeli duplicity on this website: http://antiwar.com/israelfiles2.html
With this kind of stuff, who needs to rent videos? Scary stuff.
Our government is seriously compromising Americans' best interests by supporting the apartheid country of Israel. We must send in troops, like we did in Kosovo, to ensure that Israel is transformed into a true democracy, with equal rights for all, including all 5.5 Palestinian refugees. And the country should be renamed Palestine-Israel. It was Palestine for thousands of years, and there is absolutely no good reason why Palestinians should have to give up that name, just because the European UN decided so. Time to create something new. Make new history. This time with a sense of true justice for all, including the indigenous Palestinian people.
For more information:
http://antiwar.com/israelfiles2.html
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There's only 5.5 Palestinian refugees left.? Wow I knew it was bad, but not THAT bad..
Poor Israel, a nation of "God's Chosen". Why dosn't anyone like them? How can this be? We must support them or God will be angry with us, or at least the Mossad "by way of deception" boys will just have to do God's work for him and arrange a nasty little nuke operation. This will prove that God is on their side and we must give in to their demands.
These spies waltz around our country like it's Disney land. Our own Gov. is either incapable or refuses to protect us from these Demonic Parasites. Why?
I'd say it's number one in many other things as well or at least right up there close to number one. Not only do Israelis discriminate against Palestinians and Arabs in general but they discriminate even among themselves. They talk about the so-called 'self-hating Jew' but don't seem to realize that they are fulfilling that which they hate. The Ashkenazim which basically run the country treats the Middle Eastern Jews, the Sefardim, as well as other Jews, such as the Falasha from Ethiopia as a veritable second class.
A) The Palestinians are not an "indigenous people." Check your history more carefully.
B) If Israel is NOT a democracy, as you contend, then compare the percentages of voting peoples to those in surrounding countries. It is far more democratic than the regimes in other Middle-Eastern countries in which NO ONE votes on who is in charge.
C) The country was CALLED Palestine for thousands of years, but there was NEVER a Palestinian government.
D) Did you ever ask the Palestinian people if they WANTED a say in the Israeli government? The answer is that many of them don't want ANY state of Israel OR Palestine/Israel. They want a state of Palestine and won't settle for anything less.
Thanks for your "solution," pal, but perhaps you might consider the fact that the situation is hardly as black and white as you make it appear.
B) If Israel is NOT a democracy, as you contend, then compare the percentages of voting peoples to those in surrounding countries. It is far more democratic than the regimes in other Middle-Eastern countries in which NO ONE votes on who is in charge.
C) The country was CALLED Palestine for thousands of years, but there was NEVER a Palestinian government.
D) Did you ever ask the Palestinian people if they WANTED a say in the Israeli government? The answer is that many of them don't want ANY state of Israel OR Palestine/Israel. They want a state of Palestine and won't settle for anything less.
Thanks for your "solution," pal, but perhaps you might consider the fact that the situation is hardly as black and white as you make it appear.
What's so bad about dual citizenship?
The JEWS murdered JFK???
Oh please, this isn't even worthy of a reply, except to show who the real "hate mongers" are.
Oh please, this isn't even worthy of a reply, except to show who the real "hate mongers" are.
"B) If Israel is NOT a democracy, as you contend, then compare the percentages of voting peoples to those in surrounding countries."
Comparing a country to it's neighbors doesn't make a country a 'democracy.' It has to fulfill the definition all on it's own.
Sorry student.
Comparing a country to it's neighbors doesn't make a country a 'democracy.' It has to fulfill the definition all on it's own.
Sorry student.
I agree,
"Comparing a country to it's neighbors doesn't make a country a 'democracy.' It has to fulfill the definition all on it's own."
The point is that accusing of Israel of not being democratic is far from sufficient an argument to use to demonize the Israeli people. The same thing goes for inequality in general: Israel DOES have inequalities that need to be corrected, but so do America and many other countries in the world. This fact is FAR from delegitimizing its rights to exist as a state.
And while comparing Israel to other nations does not excuse it for not being democratic, it shows the fact that it, at least, has made the first steps TOWARD democracy.
"Comparing a country to it's neighbors doesn't make a country a 'democracy.' It has to fulfill the definition all on it's own."
The point is that accusing of Israel of not being democratic is far from sufficient an argument to use to demonize the Israeli people. The same thing goes for inequality in general: Israel DOES have inequalities that need to be corrected, but so do America and many other countries in the world. This fact is FAR from delegitimizing its rights to exist as a state.
And while comparing Israel to other nations does not excuse it for not being democratic, it shows the fact that it, at least, has made the first steps TOWARD democracy.
Democracy entails practicing ideals generally associated with democracies, i.e voting, free press, seperation of executive and judicial powers, the right of free movement and association. Israel has a proper voting process from what they tell us, however, the fail the other stipulations horribly. Palestinians are locked up like animals in cages, they're restricted to stepping out of their house twice a month for rations. There is no free speech in Israel, to note so is inanem don't even try. Non-israelis inside Israel face trials as well, namely having a seventeen year old soldier who can barely lift his m-16 search you indiscriminately. If Israel is a democratic society, then Mugabe embodies democracy in a leader.
Other corrections to your undergraduate assertions, ALL Palestinians are indigeneuous to the land, and Israel is the last bastion on Earth where European colonialism continues.
Other corrections to your undergraduate assertions, ALL Palestinians are indigeneuous to the land, and Israel is the last bastion on Earth where European colonialism continues.
Hmph.
A) The Palestinians are not an "indigenous people." Check your history more carefully.
Who is "indigenous" these days anyway? Can you trace your line back to year X, without contention? It's pointless to bicker over territory historically from ANY angle. But, if I LIVE in MY home, as I have and perhaps generations before me have, you have NO RIGHT to tell me to leave because of "history". And, I might add, your precious Abraham
Genesis 11, verses 26 - 28
26: And Terah lived seventy years, and begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran.
27: Now these are the generations of Terah: Terah begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran begat Lot.
28: And Haran died before his father Terah in the land of his nativity, in Ur of the Chaldees.
Ur of the Chaldees. There are still Caldeans you know. They deserve the land too...
I might add that any Yiddish speaking practioner of Judaism is a JEW by RELIGION and a KHAZZAR by geneaology. DEAL WITH IT! The Chinese Moslems don't call themselves Arabs, and European Jews should NOT call themselves SEMETIC!
B) If Israel is NOT a democracy, as you contend, then compare the percentages of voting peoples to those in surrounding countries. It is far more democratic than the regimes in other Middle-Eastern countries in which NO ONE votes on who is in charge.
Can't really argue with that. But it really is not that simple. I believe that the Democracy that you speak of is experiencing some corruption scandals. But, it's still a democracy, right?
Unless you are a Sephartic Jew, or an Ethiopian Jew, or an Iraqi Jew, or god forbid, NOT a Jew. Then, it's not a democracy at all, but a cruel joke of the human rights struggles so many European Jews fought for in OTHER countries. Remember South Africa? You don't have too. It has been reborn, just as the Reichstagg was burned again.
C) The country was CALLED Palestine for thousands of years, but there was NEVER a Palestinian government.
So, a government makes a land? Well, where is the government of G-d to declare that Israel is Israel? Oh, that's religious law, which is different? Example? Oh, how about the Israeli government? There, you go to practice the LAW OF MAN. You rule and punish and judge by men and the rule of man. And then you proclaim that G-d gave the land to you. Well, then, practice G-D's ULTIMATE law and shutter your parliament.
D) Did you ever ask the Palestinian people if they WANTED a say in the Israeli government? The answer is that many of them don't want ANY state of Israel OR Palestine/Israel. They want a state of Palestine and won't settle for anything less.
Hmm. Did the zionists ask the Palestinian people if they WANTED a say in the Palestinian life? They answer is no...
"We did not make sufficient efforts to get, if not the full agreement of the Arabs, at least their acquiescence to a Jewish state, which I think would have been possible. That was the original sin."
Dr. Nahum Goldman
President of the World Jewish Congress 1974
1Thanks for your "solution," pal, but perhaps you might consider the fact that the situation is hardly as black and white as you make it appear.
Thanks for YOUR solution "pal". When you look at things black, you also need to look at it white.
A) The Palestinians are not an "indigenous people." Check your history more carefully.
Who is "indigenous" these days anyway? Can you trace your line back to year X, without contention? It's pointless to bicker over territory historically from ANY angle. But, if I LIVE in MY home, as I have and perhaps generations before me have, you have NO RIGHT to tell me to leave because of "history". And, I might add, your precious Abraham
Genesis 11, verses 26 - 28
26: And Terah lived seventy years, and begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran.
27: Now these are the generations of Terah: Terah begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran begat Lot.
28: And Haran died before his father Terah in the land of his nativity, in Ur of the Chaldees.
Ur of the Chaldees. There are still Caldeans you know. They deserve the land too...
I might add that any Yiddish speaking practioner of Judaism is a JEW by RELIGION and a KHAZZAR by geneaology. DEAL WITH IT! The Chinese Moslems don't call themselves Arabs, and European Jews should NOT call themselves SEMETIC!
B) If Israel is NOT a democracy, as you contend, then compare the percentages of voting peoples to those in surrounding countries. It is far more democratic than the regimes in other Middle-Eastern countries in which NO ONE votes on who is in charge.
Can't really argue with that. But it really is not that simple. I believe that the Democracy that you speak of is experiencing some corruption scandals. But, it's still a democracy, right?
Unless you are a Sephartic Jew, or an Ethiopian Jew, or an Iraqi Jew, or god forbid, NOT a Jew. Then, it's not a democracy at all, but a cruel joke of the human rights struggles so many European Jews fought for in OTHER countries. Remember South Africa? You don't have too. It has been reborn, just as the Reichstagg was burned again.
C) The country was CALLED Palestine for thousands of years, but there was NEVER a Palestinian government.
So, a government makes a land? Well, where is the government of G-d to declare that Israel is Israel? Oh, that's religious law, which is different? Example? Oh, how about the Israeli government? There, you go to practice the LAW OF MAN. You rule and punish and judge by men and the rule of man. And then you proclaim that G-d gave the land to you. Well, then, practice G-D's ULTIMATE law and shutter your parliament.
D) Did you ever ask the Palestinian people if they WANTED a say in the Israeli government? The answer is that many of them don't want ANY state of Israel OR Palestine/Israel. They want a state of Palestine and won't settle for anything less.
Hmm. Did the zionists ask the Palestinian people if they WANTED a say in the Palestinian life? They answer is no...
"We did not make sufficient efforts to get, if not the full agreement of the Arabs, at least their acquiescence to a Jewish state, which I think would have been possible. That was the original sin."
Dr. Nahum Goldman
President of the World Jewish Congress 1974
1Thanks for your "solution," pal, but perhaps you might consider the fact that the situation is hardly as black and white as you make it appear.
Thanks for YOUR solution "pal". When you look at things black, you also need to look at it white.
"it shows the fact that it, at least, has made the first steps TOWARD democracy."
Ah, yes . . . remarkable .. . . this is the sort of 'democracy' that murders UN workers. Guess we're redefining things here. Not only was Ian Hook killed, but a second UN worker was shot in the leg - a woman - on the same day while trying to protect children. She was obviously *unarmed* - no excuse to say a TELEPHONE was mistaken for a GUN there.
How about the 95 year old Palestinian woman who was trying to get away in her car? - shot in the neck. How about the deaf man? - crushed in his house. How about the disabled man in the wheelchair in Jenin? - killed. And his chair? - crushed. Guess these were all 'terrorists?' Need I go on and on with this list? Should I get into the child casualties?
If Israel wants to *act* like the Palestinians (killing civilians indiscriminately) - since the response to these murders is to say 'we must defend against the Palestinians and this is the only way' - then they can't expect to also be called a democracy and they can't expect not to be considered the same thing as the Palestinians.
The US, by the way, is not a democracy either, it's a Duopoly - two parties control it and others are not allowed through the rules of the system - a court in NJ ruled that the 'two-party system must be preserved.' That's not democracy. In fact, the corporations run the two parties, so even the premise of a 'duopoly' is misguided. Corptocracy, if anything.
But Israel appears to be a Theocracy. And one that murders civilians - hmmm . . . . seems bizarre to kill women, children, and the disabled in the name of a religious apartied state. Or, maybe not. Maybe that's what religion is all about.
Thank god I'm an atheist!
Ah, yes . . . remarkable .. . . this is the sort of 'democracy' that murders UN workers. Guess we're redefining things here. Not only was Ian Hook killed, but a second UN worker was shot in the leg - a woman - on the same day while trying to protect children. She was obviously *unarmed* - no excuse to say a TELEPHONE was mistaken for a GUN there.
How about the 95 year old Palestinian woman who was trying to get away in her car? - shot in the neck. How about the deaf man? - crushed in his house. How about the disabled man in the wheelchair in Jenin? - killed. And his chair? - crushed. Guess these were all 'terrorists?' Need I go on and on with this list? Should I get into the child casualties?
If Israel wants to *act* like the Palestinians (killing civilians indiscriminately) - since the response to these murders is to say 'we must defend against the Palestinians and this is the only way' - then they can't expect to also be called a democracy and they can't expect not to be considered the same thing as the Palestinians.
The US, by the way, is not a democracy either, it's a Duopoly - two parties control it and others are not allowed through the rules of the system - a court in NJ ruled that the 'two-party system must be preserved.' That's not democracy. In fact, the corporations run the two parties, so even the premise of a 'duopoly' is misguided. Corptocracy, if anything.
But Israel appears to be a Theocracy. And one that murders civilians - hmmm . . . . seems bizarre to kill women, children, and the disabled in the name of a religious apartied state. Or, maybe not. Maybe that's what religion is all about.
Thank god I'm an atheist!
--"The Palestinians are not an "indigenous people." Check your history more carefully."
Despite Zionist lies, the Palestinians are the indigenous population of what is now Israel. To create the Jewish homeland, the Palestinian homeland was unapologetically *destroyed* by Zionist Jews. Zionists literally stole the homes of Palestinians and now lie about it and shape history to suit their purposes. Palestinians are every bit as much the indigenous population of the area (having resided their for thousands of years) as the French are to France or the British to Britain.
Israel's lies to defend their existence are just disgusting.
Despite Zionist lies, the Palestinians are the indigenous population of what is now Israel. To create the Jewish homeland, the Palestinian homeland was unapologetically *destroyed* by Zionist Jews. Zionists literally stole the homes of Palestinians and now lie about it and shape history to suit their purposes. Palestinians are every bit as much the indigenous population of the area (having resided their for thousands of years) as the French are to France or the British to Britain.
Israel's lies to defend their existence are just disgusting.
before you go and publish your own nice set of propagonda i suggest you get your fact straights. only nation with apartheid? what are you talking about?! citzens under the country of israel all share the same civil rights, there is no segregation. west bank and gaza strip are not under the land of israel they are occupied lands that come from jordan and egypt. moreso, israel has so many spies because its needs to constantly covor its a*s from scum like you who is out to get them. with jews being .5 the population of the world and and antisemitism being downright fashionable, you would want a nice intelligence unit to try to protect whatever small population of you is left in the world. get your facts straight and cut out your manipulation
Oh, but in other threads all the Israelis insist there is no occupied land. You can't have it both ways.
--"citzens under the country of israel all share the same civil rights, there is no segregation"
Bullshit, almost 100% of the land is for exclusive Jewish use. Segregation and laws that inhibit Palestinians from even travelling abound. Israel is an Apartheid state with unequal laws that favor Jews over non-Jews. To defend such a system is racist just like defending South African Apartheid was racist. There can be no exceptions or compromises to the principle of equality for all under the law.
Bullshit, almost 100% of the land is for exclusive Jewish use. Segregation and laws that inhibit Palestinians from even travelling abound. Israel is an Apartheid state with unequal laws that favor Jews over non-Jews. To defend such a system is racist just like defending South African Apartheid was racist. There can be no exceptions or compromises to the principle of equality for all under the law.
In Sudan, Arabs keep Africans as slaves. You know, the kind of buy, sell, trade, and work a person to death kind of slave?
But I guess that's not Apartheid. I mean, it can only be apartheid if the perpetartors are jooooos and not those oh-so nice arabs.
But I guess that's not Apartheid. I mean, it can only be apartheid if the perpetartors are jooooos and not those oh-so nice arabs.
Apartheid is apartheid and crimes against humans are crimes against humans.
Criminals who justify their crimes by pointing to other criminals are sorry dogs, apologists of the worst sort.
Criminals who justify their crimes by pointing to other criminals are sorry dogs, apologists of the worst sort.
It is plain and simple. As long as conflict exists between Arabs and Israelis, there are going to be deaths on both sides.
Both sides!
It is futile pointing to this suicide bombing victim, or that victim of the Israeli Defence Forces as evidence of the inherent mailice of one side or another.
Neither the Arabs nor the Israelis are going to disappear, despite the ernest wishes of the more extreme Israelis - or morons like Hasborah Goy.
There has to be a dialogue or else the killing will go on forever.
The Israelis can not in any meaningful or realistic sense expect the Arabs to simply evaporate into thin air.
Nor vice versa
And palpably racist-nihilist organisations like Hizbolla and Hamas merely bring perdition down on the very people they purport to be 'defending'.
It is stupid to pretend that such groups are anything but extremist organisations with the clearly avowed objective of killing a many Jews as they can get their hands on.
The Palestinians are the meat in the sandwhich here. The cynical might even suggest that the more the Palestinians are kicked around, the more it suits extremists of every stripe.
And the idea that governments in the region - ANY of the governments there - are concerned with the welfare of Palestinians is ridiculous.
One only has to look at how the Palestinians were treated in Jordan.
Or how other ethnic and religious minorities are treated in other Arabic countries, to realise that the regional governments are hardly concerned with settling these issues on the basis of tolerance and respect for others.
Then there are those who spill their crocodile tears for the Palestinians - but who are as quiet as the grave about the plight of every other mistreated group in the region.
Look how the governments of Iraq and Iran bemoan the fate of the Palestinians - and rejoice in killing each other all the while.
How the Egyptians despair for the Palestinians - and oppress the Copts.
Not to mention the contributors to this site whose only concern for the Palestinians is the opportunity they provide to vindictively admonish Jews.
I am struck by the depth of denial in the whole 'debate' about the middle east.
Now. It must be time for a message from Hasborah Goy about how the Jews started World War Two...
Both sides!
It is futile pointing to this suicide bombing victim, or that victim of the Israeli Defence Forces as evidence of the inherent mailice of one side or another.
Neither the Arabs nor the Israelis are going to disappear, despite the ernest wishes of the more extreme Israelis - or morons like Hasborah Goy.
There has to be a dialogue or else the killing will go on forever.
The Israelis can not in any meaningful or realistic sense expect the Arabs to simply evaporate into thin air.
Nor vice versa
And palpably racist-nihilist organisations like Hizbolla and Hamas merely bring perdition down on the very people they purport to be 'defending'.
It is stupid to pretend that such groups are anything but extremist organisations with the clearly avowed objective of killing a many Jews as they can get their hands on.
The Palestinians are the meat in the sandwhich here. The cynical might even suggest that the more the Palestinians are kicked around, the more it suits extremists of every stripe.
And the idea that governments in the region - ANY of the governments there - are concerned with the welfare of Palestinians is ridiculous.
One only has to look at how the Palestinians were treated in Jordan.
Or how other ethnic and religious minorities are treated in other Arabic countries, to realise that the regional governments are hardly concerned with settling these issues on the basis of tolerance and respect for others.
Then there are those who spill their crocodile tears for the Palestinians - but who are as quiet as the grave about the plight of every other mistreated group in the region.
Look how the governments of Iraq and Iran bemoan the fate of the Palestinians - and rejoice in killing each other all the while.
How the Egyptians despair for the Palestinians - and oppress the Copts.
Not to mention the contributors to this site whose only concern for the Palestinians is the opportunity they provide to vindictively admonish Jews.
I am struck by the depth of denial in the whole 'debate' about the middle east.
Now. It must be time for a message from Hasborah Goy about how the Jews started World War Two...
Americans - and people in the west in general need to wake up.
Zionists have largely taken over the commanding heiights of power - especially the mass media, which is equivalent in its influence in contemporary society to the Church in medieval Europe.
As a consequence, most Americans it seems cannot see outdie the Zionist box. They are blind to the cominality of Zionism. They never get to hear information which contradicts the zimplistic view of the world whereby an apathheid state (Israel) is seen as being 'on our side' and 'the good guys'
It would be funny if it wasn't so dangerous.
Trent Lott makes some stupid remarks glorifying Americá racist past and he's near crucified in the media.
Dick Armey Calls for Ethnic Cleansing of Palestinians - a blatant war crime and the strongest aggressive statement a racist can make - and his comments are ignored by the US mainstream media.
http://www.counterpunch.org/armey0502.html
Wake up Americans!
Zionists are leading you like sheep to slaughter. They get Amercans to subsidize genocide in the Holy Land. Next your kids will be dotted around the middle east defending stolen oil wells.
Do Americans EVER ask why, with military bases in ~100 countries, Uncle Sam has no bases in Israel?
In the United Zionist States, Bush is the pre-eminent bully-clown, until Sharon turns up, when he shuts up and listens to his next set of instructions.
Zionists have largely taken over the commanding heiights of power - especially the mass media, which is equivalent in its influence in contemporary society to the Church in medieval Europe.
As a consequence, most Americans it seems cannot see outdie the Zionist box. They are blind to the cominality of Zionism. They never get to hear information which contradicts the zimplistic view of the world whereby an apathheid state (Israel) is seen as being 'on our side' and 'the good guys'
It would be funny if it wasn't so dangerous.
Trent Lott makes some stupid remarks glorifying Americá racist past and he's near crucified in the media.
Dick Armey Calls for Ethnic Cleansing of Palestinians - a blatant war crime and the strongest aggressive statement a racist can make - and his comments are ignored by the US mainstream media.
http://www.counterpunch.org/armey0502.html
Wake up Americans!
Zionists are leading you like sheep to slaughter. They get Amercans to subsidize genocide in the Holy Land. Next your kids will be dotted around the middle east defending stolen oil wells.
Do Americans EVER ask why, with military bases in ~100 countries, Uncle Sam has no bases in Israel?
In the United Zionist States, Bush is the pre-eminent bully-clown, until Sharon turns up, when he shuts up and listens to his next set of instructions.
Answering the "Berkley" student:
"A) The Palestinians are not an "indigenous people." Check your history more carefully."
B E H O L D the Canaanites, who inhabited the land of Palestine, before (they were kicked out by) the Israelites. Now, in 2002, they have suddenly decided that they want to "return"!! Time to pack up, Israelis. Sorry, you're not allowed any human rights, as the Canaanite might need to oppress you in case you don't decide to clear the land of your existence for their glorious return. Or, you can stay, and your labor will be exploited and rights limited, in service of the supreme owners, the Canaanites.
Absurd, isn't it? I haven't even told you that the Palestinians today are the most likely descendants of Canaanites, so they are the ones who will be
(re)taking the houses and lands of the Israelis.
"B) If Israel is NOT a democracy, as you contend, then compare the percentages of voting peoples to those in surrounding countries. It is far more democratic than the regimes in other Middle-Eastern countries in which NO ONE votes on who is in charge."
Since when is democracy measured in relation to its neighbors? when purchasing or renting laws are for "jews only", that country is NOT a democracy. When citizenship is accepted or denied based on whether someone is a jew, that country is NOT a democracy. When 75% of the land is taken and given to 1% of the population (because they're jews) that country is NOT a democracy. israel, like South Africa, is a democracy for some - for everyone else it's a racist apartheid state.
"C) The country was CALLED Palestine for thousands of years, but there was NEVER a Palestinian government. "
answer: So what. A nation is defined by a people sharing a set of culture, tradition, language, religion. They were under the rule of other governments like the Ottomans, whom they got along with quite well. It is jewish hospitality, that has made suicide bombers of otherwise normal neighbors.
capish?
"A) The Palestinians are not an "indigenous people." Check your history more carefully."
B E H O L D the Canaanites, who inhabited the land of Palestine, before (they were kicked out by) the Israelites. Now, in 2002, they have suddenly decided that they want to "return"!! Time to pack up, Israelis. Sorry, you're not allowed any human rights, as the Canaanite might need to oppress you in case you don't decide to clear the land of your existence for their glorious return. Or, you can stay, and your labor will be exploited and rights limited, in service of the supreme owners, the Canaanites.
Absurd, isn't it? I haven't even told you that the Palestinians today are the most likely descendants of Canaanites, so they are the ones who will be
(re)taking the houses and lands of the Israelis.
"B) If Israel is NOT a democracy, as you contend, then compare the percentages of voting peoples to those in surrounding countries. It is far more democratic than the regimes in other Middle-Eastern countries in which NO ONE votes on who is in charge."
Since when is democracy measured in relation to its neighbors? when purchasing or renting laws are for "jews only", that country is NOT a democracy. When citizenship is accepted or denied based on whether someone is a jew, that country is NOT a democracy. When 75% of the land is taken and given to 1% of the population (because they're jews) that country is NOT a democracy. israel, like South Africa, is a democracy for some - for everyone else it's a racist apartheid state.
"C) The country was CALLED Palestine for thousands of years, but there was NEVER a Palestinian government. "
answer: So what. A nation is defined by a people sharing a set of culture, tradition, language, religion. They were under the rule of other governments like the Ottomans, whom they got along with quite well. It is jewish hospitality, that has made suicide bombers of otherwise normal neighbors.
capish?
"Neither the Arabs nor the Israelis are going to disappear, despite the ernest wishes of the more extreme Israelis - or morons like Hasborah Goy"
Of course, Chris won't be able to find any quote of mine that supports this slander.
Of course, Chris won't be able to find any quote of mine that supports this slander.
Goy, all I know about you is that you are strictly one-sided. You see half the picture with clarity, the other half: not at all. It's like having half a map. The sad part is, you could have the other half but it's too confusing for you, you don't want it; it's easier to be an extremist, and it's easier to have solid belief than ambiguous knowledge.
tell me Mr imaginative Dotty...............
Have you read the correspondence between Sir Henry McMahon and Sharif Husayn of 24 October 1915?
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sir Henry McMahon to Sharif Husayn, 24 October 1915
. . . The two districts of mersina and Alexandretta and portions of Syria lying to the west of the districts of Damascus, Homs, Hama, and Aleppo cannot be said to be purely Arab, and should be excluded from the limits demanded.
With the above modification, and without prejudice to our existing treaties with Arab chiefs, we accept those limits.
As for those regions lying within those frontiers wherein Great Britain is free to act without detriment to the interests of her ally, France, I am enpowered in the name of the Government of Great Britain to give the following assurances and make the following reply to your letter:
(1) Subject to the above modifications, Great Britain is prepared to recognise and support the independence of the Arabs in all the regions within the limits demanded by the Sherif of mecca.
(2) Great Britain will guarantee the Holy Places against all external aggression and will recognise their inviolability.
(3) When the situation admits, Great Britain will give to the Arabs her advice and will assist them to establish what may appear to be the most suitable forms of government in those various territories.
(4) On the other hand, it is understood that the Arabs have decided to seek the advice and guidance of Great Britain only, and that such European advisors and officials as may be required for the formation of a sound administration will be British.
(5) With regard to the vilayets of Bagdad and Basra, the Arabs will recognise that the established position and interests of Great Britain necessitate special administrative arrangements in order to secure these territories from foreign aggression to promote the welfare of the local populations and to safeguard our mutual economic interests.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you read the 1917 Balfour Declaration?
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you read President Wilson's Fourteen Points?
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jan 8, 1918
XII. The Turkish portion of the present Ottoman Empire should be assured a secure sovereignty, but the other nationalities which are now under Turkish rule should be assured an undoubted security of life and an absolutely unmolested opportunity of autonomous development, and the Dardanelles should be permanently opened as a free passage to the ships and commerce of all nations under international guarantees.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you read the Anglo-French Joint Statement of Aims in Syria and Mesopotamia?
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8 November, 1918
This statement was issued by the British Embassy in Washington at the request of the British Foreign Office.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The aim of France and Great Britain in carrying on in the Near East the war let loose by Germany's ambitions is the complete and final liberation of the peoples so long oppressed by the Turks and the establishment of governments and administrations deriving their authority from the initiative and the free choice of the native populations.
In view of following out this intention, France and Great Britain are agreed to encourage and help the establishment of native governments and administrations in Syria and Mesopotamia actually liberated by the allies, and in the territories they are now striving to liberate, and to recognize them as soon as effectively established.
Far from seeking to force upon the populations of these countries any particular institution, France and Great Britain have no other concern than to ensure by their support and their active assistance the normal working of the governments and institutions which the populations shall have freely adopted, so as to secure just impartiality for all, and also to facilitate the economic development of the country in arousing and encouraging local initiative by the diffusion of instruction, and to put an end to discords which have too long been taken advantage of by Turkish rule.
Such is the role that the two Allied Governments claim for themselves in the liberated territories.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you read the 1916 dirty little secret Sykes-Picot agreement between the British and French recommending:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"1. That France and Great Britain are prepared to recognize and protect an independent Arab State or a Confederation of Arab States in the areas (A) and (B) marked on the annexed map, under the suzerainty of an Arab chief. That in area (A) France, and in area (B) Great Britain, shall have priority of right of enterprise and local loans. That in area (A) France, and in area (B) Great Britain, shall alone supply advisers or foreign functionaries at the request of the Arab State or Confederation of Arab States.
2. That in the blue area France, and in the red area Great Britain, shall be allowed to establish such direct or indirect administration or control as they desire and as they may think fit to arrange with the Arab State or Confederation of Arab States."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
?
Have you scrutinized every document at the Truman Library on the establishment and recognition of Israel?
Have you read President Woodrow Wilson's 1919 pre-Holocaust King-Crane commission report?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ZIONISM
E. We recommend, in the fifth place, serious modification of the extreme Zionist program for Palestine of unlimited immigration of Jews, looking finally to making Palestine distinctly a Jewish State.
(1) The Commissioners began their study of Zionism with minds predisposed in its favor, but the actual facts in Palestine, coupled with the force of the general principles proclaimed by the Allies and accepted by the Syrians have driven them to the recommendation here made.
(2) The commission was abundantly supplied with literature on the Zionist program by the Zionist Commission to Palestine; heard in conferences much concerning the Zionist colonies and their claims; and personally saw something of what had been accomplished. They found much to approve in the aspirations and plans of the Zionists, and had warm appreciation for the devotion of many of the colonists and for their success, by modern methods, in overcoming natural obstacles.
(3) The Commission recognized also that definite encouragement had been given to the Zionists by the Allies in Mr. Balfour's often quoted statement in its approval by other representatives of the Allies. If, however, the strict terms of the Balfour Statement are adhered to -favoring "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people," "it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights existing in non-Jewish communities in Palestine"-it can hardly be doubted that the extreme Zionist Program must be greatly modified.
For "a national home for the Jewish people" is not equivalent to making Palestine into a Jewish State; nor can the erection of such a Jewish State be accomplished without the gravest trespass upon the "civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine." The fact came out repeatedly in the Commission's conference with Jewish representatives, that the Zionists looked forward to a practically complete dispossession of the present non-Jewish inhabitants of Palestine, by various forms of purchase.
In his address of July 4, 1918, President Wilson laid down the following principle as one of the four great "ends for which the associated peoples of the world were fighting"; "The settlement of every question, whether of territory, of sovereignty, of economic arrangement, or of political relationship upon the basis of the free acceptance of that settlement by the people immediately concerned and not upon the basis of the material interest or advantage of any other nation or people which may desire a different settlement for the sake of its own exterior influence or mastery." If that principle is to rule, and so the wishes of Palestine's population are to be decisive as to what is to be done with Palestine, then it is to be remembered that the non-Jewish population of Palestine-nearly nine tenths of the whole-are emphatically against the entire Zionist program. The tables show that there was no one thing upon which the population of Palestine were more agreed than upon this. To subject a people so minded to unlimited Jewish immigration, and to steady financial and social pressure to surrenderthe land, would be a gross violation of the principle just quoted, and of the people's rights, though it kept within the forms of law.
It is to be noted also that the feeling against the Zionist program is not confined to Palestine, but shared very generally by the people throughout Syria as our conferences clearly showed. More than 72 per cent-1,350 in all-of all the petitions in the whole of Syria were directed against the Zionist program. Only two requests-those for a united Syria and for independence-had a larger support This genera] feeling was only voiced by the "General Syrian Congress," in the seventh, eighth and tenth resolutions of the statement. (Already quoted in the report.)
The Peace Conference should not shut its eyes to the fact that the anti-Zionist feeling in Palestine and Syria is intense and not lightly to be flouted. No British officer, consulted by the Commissioners, believed that the Zionist program could be carried out except by force of arms. The officers generally thought that a force of not less than 50,000 soldiers would be required even to initiate the program. That of itself is evidence of a strong sense of the injustice of the Zionist program, on the part of the non-Jewish populations of Palestine and Syria. Decisions, requiring armies to carry out, are sometimes necessary, but they are surely not gratuitously to be taken in the interests of a serious injustice. For the initial claim, often submitted by Zionist representatives, that they have a "right" to Palestine, based on an occupation of 2,000 years ago, can hardly be seriously considered.
There is a further consideration that cannot justly be ignored, if the world is to look forward to Palestine becoming a definitely Jewish state, however gradually that may take place. That consideration grows out of the fact that Palestine is "the Holy Land" for Jews, Christians, and Moslems alike. Millions of Christians and Moslems all over the world are quite as much concerned as the Jews with conditions in Palestine especially with those conditions which touch upon religious feeling and rights. The relations in these matters in Palestine are most delicate and difficult. With the best possible intentions, it may be doubted whether the Jews could possibly seem to either Christians or Moslems proper guardians of the holy places, or custodians of the Holy Land as a whole.
The reason is this: The places which are most sacred to Christians-those having to do with Jesus-and which are also sacred to Moslems, are not only not sacred to Jews, but abhorrent to them. It is simply impossible, under those circumstances, for Moslems and Christians to feel satisfied to have these places in Jewish hands, or under the custody of Jews. There are still other places about which Moslems must have the same feeling. In fact, from this point of view, the Moslems, just because the sacred places of all three religions are sacred to them have made very naturally much more satisfactory custodians of the holy places than the Jews could be. It must be believed that the precise meaning, in this respect, of the complete Jewish occupation of Palestine has not been fully sensed by those who urge the extreme Zionist program. For it would intensify, with a certainty like fate, the anti-Jewish feeling both in Palestine and in all other portions of the world which look to Palestine as "the Holy Land."
In view of all these considerations, and with a deep sense of sympathy for the Jewish cause, the Commissioners feel bound to recommend that only a greatly reduced Zionist program be attempted by the Peace Conference, and even that, only very gradually initiated. This would have to mean that Jewish immigration should be definitely limited, and that the project for making Palestine distinctly a Jewish commonwealth should be given up.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you read the correspondence between Sir Henry McMahon and Sharif Husayn of 24 October 1915?
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sir Henry McMahon to Sharif Husayn, 24 October 1915
. . . The two districts of mersina and Alexandretta and portions of Syria lying to the west of the districts of Damascus, Homs, Hama, and Aleppo cannot be said to be purely Arab, and should be excluded from the limits demanded.
With the above modification, and without prejudice to our existing treaties with Arab chiefs, we accept those limits.
As for those regions lying within those frontiers wherein Great Britain is free to act without detriment to the interests of her ally, France, I am enpowered in the name of the Government of Great Britain to give the following assurances and make the following reply to your letter:
(1) Subject to the above modifications, Great Britain is prepared to recognise and support the independence of the Arabs in all the regions within the limits demanded by the Sherif of mecca.
(2) Great Britain will guarantee the Holy Places against all external aggression and will recognise their inviolability.
(3) When the situation admits, Great Britain will give to the Arabs her advice and will assist them to establish what may appear to be the most suitable forms of government in those various territories.
(4) On the other hand, it is understood that the Arabs have decided to seek the advice and guidance of Great Britain only, and that such European advisors and officials as may be required for the formation of a sound administration will be British.
(5) With regard to the vilayets of Bagdad and Basra, the Arabs will recognise that the established position and interests of Great Britain necessitate special administrative arrangements in order to secure these territories from foreign aggression to promote the welfare of the local populations and to safeguard our mutual economic interests.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you read the 1917 Balfour Declaration?
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you read President Wilson's Fourteen Points?
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jan 8, 1918
XII. The Turkish portion of the present Ottoman Empire should be assured a secure sovereignty, but the other nationalities which are now under Turkish rule should be assured an undoubted security of life and an absolutely unmolested opportunity of autonomous development, and the Dardanelles should be permanently opened as a free passage to the ships and commerce of all nations under international guarantees.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you read the Anglo-French Joint Statement of Aims in Syria and Mesopotamia?
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8 November, 1918
This statement was issued by the British Embassy in Washington at the request of the British Foreign Office.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The aim of France and Great Britain in carrying on in the Near East the war let loose by Germany's ambitions is the complete and final liberation of the peoples so long oppressed by the Turks and the establishment of governments and administrations deriving their authority from the initiative and the free choice of the native populations.
In view of following out this intention, France and Great Britain are agreed to encourage and help the establishment of native governments and administrations in Syria and Mesopotamia actually liberated by the allies, and in the territories they are now striving to liberate, and to recognize them as soon as effectively established.
Far from seeking to force upon the populations of these countries any particular institution, France and Great Britain have no other concern than to ensure by their support and their active assistance the normal working of the governments and institutions which the populations shall have freely adopted, so as to secure just impartiality for all, and also to facilitate the economic development of the country in arousing and encouraging local initiative by the diffusion of instruction, and to put an end to discords which have too long been taken advantage of by Turkish rule.
Such is the role that the two Allied Governments claim for themselves in the liberated territories.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you read the 1916 dirty little secret Sykes-Picot agreement between the British and French recommending:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"1. That France and Great Britain are prepared to recognize and protect an independent Arab State or a Confederation of Arab States in the areas (A) and (B) marked on the annexed map, under the suzerainty of an Arab chief. That in area (A) France, and in area (B) Great Britain, shall have priority of right of enterprise and local loans. That in area (A) France, and in area (B) Great Britain, shall alone supply advisers or foreign functionaries at the request of the Arab State or Confederation of Arab States.
2. That in the blue area France, and in the red area Great Britain, shall be allowed to establish such direct or indirect administration or control as they desire and as they may think fit to arrange with the Arab State or Confederation of Arab States."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
?
Have you scrutinized every document at the Truman Library on the establishment and recognition of Israel?
Have you read President Woodrow Wilson's 1919 pre-Holocaust King-Crane commission report?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ZIONISM
E. We recommend, in the fifth place, serious modification of the extreme Zionist program for Palestine of unlimited immigration of Jews, looking finally to making Palestine distinctly a Jewish State.
(1) The Commissioners began their study of Zionism with minds predisposed in its favor, but the actual facts in Palestine, coupled with the force of the general principles proclaimed by the Allies and accepted by the Syrians have driven them to the recommendation here made.
(2) The commission was abundantly supplied with literature on the Zionist program by the Zionist Commission to Palestine; heard in conferences much concerning the Zionist colonies and their claims; and personally saw something of what had been accomplished. They found much to approve in the aspirations and plans of the Zionists, and had warm appreciation for the devotion of many of the colonists and for their success, by modern methods, in overcoming natural obstacles.
(3) The Commission recognized also that definite encouragement had been given to the Zionists by the Allies in Mr. Balfour's often quoted statement in its approval by other representatives of the Allies. If, however, the strict terms of the Balfour Statement are adhered to -favoring "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people," "it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights existing in non-Jewish communities in Palestine"-it can hardly be doubted that the extreme Zionist Program must be greatly modified.
For "a national home for the Jewish people" is not equivalent to making Palestine into a Jewish State; nor can the erection of such a Jewish State be accomplished without the gravest trespass upon the "civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine." The fact came out repeatedly in the Commission's conference with Jewish representatives, that the Zionists looked forward to a practically complete dispossession of the present non-Jewish inhabitants of Palestine, by various forms of purchase.
In his address of July 4, 1918, President Wilson laid down the following principle as one of the four great "ends for which the associated peoples of the world were fighting"; "The settlement of every question, whether of territory, of sovereignty, of economic arrangement, or of political relationship upon the basis of the free acceptance of that settlement by the people immediately concerned and not upon the basis of the material interest or advantage of any other nation or people which may desire a different settlement for the sake of its own exterior influence or mastery." If that principle is to rule, and so the wishes of Palestine's population are to be decisive as to what is to be done with Palestine, then it is to be remembered that the non-Jewish population of Palestine-nearly nine tenths of the whole-are emphatically against the entire Zionist program. The tables show that there was no one thing upon which the population of Palestine were more agreed than upon this. To subject a people so minded to unlimited Jewish immigration, and to steady financial and social pressure to surrenderthe land, would be a gross violation of the principle just quoted, and of the people's rights, though it kept within the forms of law.
It is to be noted also that the feeling against the Zionist program is not confined to Palestine, but shared very generally by the people throughout Syria as our conferences clearly showed. More than 72 per cent-1,350 in all-of all the petitions in the whole of Syria were directed against the Zionist program. Only two requests-those for a united Syria and for independence-had a larger support This genera] feeling was only voiced by the "General Syrian Congress," in the seventh, eighth and tenth resolutions of the statement. (Already quoted in the report.)
The Peace Conference should not shut its eyes to the fact that the anti-Zionist feeling in Palestine and Syria is intense and not lightly to be flouted. No British officer, consulted by the Commissioners, believed that the Zionist program could be carried out except by force of arms. The officers generally thought that a force of not less than 50,000 soldiers would be required even to initiate the program. That of itself is evidence of a strong sense of the injustice of the Zionist program, on the part of the non-Jewish populations of Palestine and Syria. Decisions, requiring armies to carry out, are sometimes necessary, but they are surely not gratuitously to be taken in the interests of a serious injustice. For the initial claim, often submitted by Zionist representatives, that they have a "right" to Palestine, based on an occupation of 2,000 years ago, can hardly be seriously considered.
There is a further consideration that cannot justly be ignored, if the world is to look forward to Palestine becoming a definitely Jewish state, however gradually that may take place. That consideration grows out of the fact that Palestine is "the Holy Land" for Jews, Christians, and Moslems alike. Millions of Christians and Moslems all over the world are quite as much concerned as the Jews with conditions in Palestine especially with those conditions which touch upon religious feeling and rights. The relations in these matters in Palestine are most delicate and difficult. With the best possible intentions, it may be doubted whether the Jews could possibly seem to either Christians or Moslems proper guardians of the holy places, or custodians of the Holy Land as a whole.
The reason is this: The places which are most sacred to Christians-those having to do with Jesus-and which are also sacred to Moslems, are not only not sacred to Jews, but abhorrent to them. It is simply impossible, under those circumstances, for Moslems and Christians to feel satisfied to have these places in Jewish hands, or under the custody of Jews. There are still other places about which Moslems must have the same feeling. In fact, from this point of view, the Moslems, just because the sacred places of all three religions are sacred to them have made very naturally much more satisfactory custodians of the holy places than the Jews could be. It must be believed that the precise meaning, in this respect, of the complete Jewish occupation of Palestine has not been fully sensed by those who urge the extreme Zionist program. For it would intensify, with a certainty like fate, the anti-Jewish feeling both in Palestine and in all other portions of the world which look to Palestine as "the Holy Land."
In view of all these considerations, and with a deep sense of sympathy for the Jewish cause, the Commissioners feel bound to recommend that only a greatly reduced Zionist program be attempted by the Peace Conference, and even that, only very gradually initiated. This would have to mean that Jewish immigration should be definitely limited, and that the project for making Palestine distinctly a Jewish commonwealth should be given up.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually, Sir Henry McMahon and I used to play polo together. And Lord Balfour was my uncle George's boyfriend.
Would teaching kids anti-Semitic doggerel and then sending them off to be suicide bombers "endanger the rights of the Palestinian people", I wonder?
Would incompetent and corrupt leadership on the part of the Palestinian Authority qualify as somehting which might "endanger the rights of the Palestinian people", I wonder?
Just ideas...
I have seen these things. But again, all you're doing is showing me that you only have half the map. The half that you have is accurate for the most part, but what good is half a map?
I'm not disputing anything you've said. You can go on listing many accusations against Israel, and I'll likely agree with most of them. But it doesn't touch on the point we are discussing, which is objectivity.
I'm not disputing anything you've said. You can go on listing many accusations against Israel, and I'll likely agree with most of them. But it doesn't touch on the point we are discussing, which is objectivity.
Please, more whining from the cult of victimology. I get it. Everybody should be accountable for their actions except for the so called " chosen people". What a fucking hypocrite.
Wasnt it the Amercian Government who killed JFK?
Who Rules Israel
Cabinet, Knesset, parties etc. play a marginal role in Israel: they serve as democratic fig-leaves, to distract public attention from the actual centres of power, and to give comfortable jobs to those who serve the junta best, with retired officers over-represented all along the line (retiring officers usually "go shopping" among the bigger political parties and join the one that offers them most).
In fact, Israel is not run just by its elected government, but by a triumvirate consisting of the Chief of Staff (or the army top), the Prime Minister and the Defence Minister. It has been so for decades, but severed considerably in the last two years: the new Intifada radically changed the balance of power between cabinet and army in favour of the latter. Even a senior main-stream analyst like Ben Kaspit of Israel’s second-biggest daily Ma’ariv, who studied the subject and published two shocking articles (6.9.02, 13.9.02) on the extent to which the army had its own political agenda and imposed it on the cabinet, concludes: "Israel is not a state with an army, but an army with an affiliated state".
http://www.antiwar.com/hacohen/h-col.html
Cabinet, Knesset, parties etc. play a marginal role in Israel: they serve as democratic fig-leaves, to distract public attention from the actual centres of power, and to give comfortable jobs to those who serve the junta best, with retired officers over-represented all along the line (retiring officers usually "go shopping" among the bigger political parties and join the one that offers them most).
In fact, Israel is not run just by its elected government, but by a triumvirate consisting of the Chief of Staff (or the army top), the Prime Minister and the Defence Minister. It has been so for decades, but severed considerably in the last two years: the new Intifada radically changed the balance of power between cabinet and army in favour of the latter. Even a senior main-stream analyst like Ben Kaspit of Israel’s second-biggest daily Ma’ariv, who studied the subject and published two shocking articles (6.9.02, 13.9.02) on the extent to which the army had its own political agenda and imposed it on the cabinet, concludes: "Israel is not a state with an army, but an army with an affiliated state".
http://www.antiwar.com/hacohen/h-col.html
While I believe there is certainly somewhat of a Jewish Zionist conspiracy with regards to our US foreign policy and even beyond, but can you tell me in a nutshell, why would Zionists want to have assasinated JFK?
"While I believe there is certainly somewhat of a Jewish Zionist conspiracy with regards to our US foreign policy and even beyond, but can you tell me in a nutshell, why would Zionists want to have assassinated JFK? "
Practice?
@%<
Practice?
@%<
It was Jonny Roscelli killed JFK! Everyone knows because he was constantly bragging about it all over old-hollywood, so then he was killed too. That's what happens when you make deals with The Mob, serves them right.
A Jewish friend posted this via Tikkun:
=====================
Perhaps the greatest victim of all these distortions has been Judaism itself. Judaism has always had within it two competing strands, one that affirmed the possibility of healing the world and transcending its violence and cruelty, the other that saw "the Other" (be that the original inhabitants of the land, who were to be subject to genocidal extermination, or later Greeks, Romans, Christians, or now Arab) as inherently evil, beyond redemption, and hence deserving of cruelty and violence. The latter strand, which I call "settler Judaism" because it reflects the ideology of settling the land that reaches its fulfillment as much in the Book of Joshua (and in some quotes in Torah) as in the reckless acts of Ariel Sharon and the current manifestations of the National Religious Party in Israel, was actually a very necessary part of keeping psychologically healthy in the long period of Jewish history when we were the oppressed and we were being psychologically brutalized by imperial occupiers or by our most immoral "hosts" in European societies. But today, when Jews are the rulers over an occupied people, or living in Western societies and sharing the upper crust of income and political power with our non-Jewish neighbors, the supremacist ideas of Settler Judaism create a religious ideology that can only appeal to those stuck in the sense that we are eternally vulernable. For a new generation of Jews, bred in circumstances of power and success, a Judaism based on fear and demeaning of others, a Judaism used as a justification for every nuance of Israeli power and occupation, becomes a Judaism that has very little spiritual appeal. Ironically, the need to be a handmaiden to Israel distorts Judaism and causes a "crisis of continuity" as younger Jews seek spiritual insight outside their inherited tradition.
Yet Judaism has another strand, what I and others call "Renewal Judaism," which started wth the Prophets and has reasserted itself in every major age of Jewish life, insisting that the God of Torah is really the Force of Healing and Transformation, and that our task is not to sanctify existing power relations but to challenge them in the name of a vision of a world of peace and justice. Perhaps the greatest danger that Israel poses to the Jewish people is the extent to which it has helped Jews become cynical about their central task: to proclaim to the world the possibility of possibillity, to affirm the God of the universe as the Force that makes possible the breaking of the tendency of people to do to others the violence and cruelty that was done to them, the Force that makes possible the transcendence of "reality" as it is so that a new world can be shaped. If Israel is ever to be healed, it will only be when it is able to reject this slavish subordination to political realism and once again embrace the transformative spiritual message of renewal.
===========================
This breed of generals was raised on the myth of redemption of the land. A glimpse into this worldview is offered in Sharon's interview with Ari Shavit in the Ha'aretz weekend supplement, April 13, 2001. Everything is entangled into one romantic framework: the fields, the blossom of the orchards, the plough, and the wars. The heart of this ideology is the sanctity of the land. In a 1976 interview that was only published in 1997, Moshe Dayan, who was the defense minister in 1967, explained what led, then, to the decision to attack Syria. In the collective Israeli consciousness of the period, Syria was conceived as a serious threat to the security of Israel, and a constant initiator of aggression towards the residents of northern Israel. But according to Dayan, this view of the role of Syria in those years is "bull-shit"—Syria was not a threat to Israel before 1967: "Just drop it.… I know how at least 80% of all the incidents with Syria started. We were sending a tractor to the demilitarized zone and we knew that the Syrians would shoot." According to Dayan (who at a time of the interview confessed some regrets), what led Israel to provoke Syria this way was the greediness for the land—the idea that it is possible "to grab a piece of land and keep it, until the enemy will get tired and give it to us" (Yediot Aharonot, April 27, 1997).
==================================
and from
===========
Ohr Somayach Tanenbaum College, founded in Jerusalem in 1972, began as a response to a handful of young people who wanted to learn about Judaism. It quickly grew to be not only a respondent to the needs of the Jewish community, but an active initiator of new and innovative educational programs around the world.
==========
During the height of the war, Rabbi Michael Ber Weissmandel managed to stop the deportation of 25,000 Romanian Jews by bribing Adolf Eichmann™s second-in-com-mand. The price: $50,000. Two dollars a head. Two dollars a Jew. About the price of an evening at the cinema.
. . .
During the height of the war, Rabbi Weissmandel's "Working Group" again made contact with Eichmann's aide. After protracted negotiations, the word came through from Berlin that the highest echelons would agree to stop all deportations everywhere except from Poland, for a price. How
much? Two million dollars. For two million dollars, literally millions of lives would be saved. With the receipt of the first $200,000 the Nazis would halt the transports for two months. After that, the next payment would be due.
. . .
Money isn't what it used to be. Two million dollars in 1943 is the equivalent of hundreds of millions of dollars today. In spite of almost superhuman efforts, Rabbi Weissmandel was unable to raise the first $200,000 dollars, and negotia-tions broke down in September 1943.
Would the Nazis have kept their word? No one can know for sure. However, there is evidence that they would have. Two Jews who escaped from Auschwitz reported that dur-ing the time of the negotiations, the trains with their relentless flow of human cargo had suddenly stopped. Even the gas chambers had lain idle. Also, a special transport of Jews from Thereisienstadt who had arrived at Auschwitz were treated with abnormal respect. Perhaps these Jews would have been the first released if the bribe had been paid.
When the negotiations foundered, they were sent to their deaths.
Why couldn’t Rabbi Weissmandel raise the money? The reasons are complex. One reason is that there was an underlying attitude that it was anathema to have any dealings with the Nazis, let alone give them vast sums of money. Legally, too, the Americans would not have taken kindly to pumping millions into the Nazi war machine. All these consid-erations pale into insignificance when faced with the overriding
imperative of the Torah to ransom captives.
=======================
quoting my Jewish friend:
" Further corroboration of the $2 million figure comes from this excerpt from the testimony "Witness Abeles" during the Eichmann trial:"
=================
Q. Could you please tell the Court what was the plan known as the "Europe Plan"?
A. As part of the negotiations with Wisliceny, Rabbi Weissmandel and Andrej Steiner, who later conducted these negotiations, suggested to Wisliceny that in return for an enormous sum of money, the deportations be halted from all over Europe. At that time Wisliceny went to Germany, returned and said that in principle there was such a possibility, except for Poland. Poland was definitively lost to the Jews, but for an amount of two or three million dollars, payable in instalments and in goods, in monthly instalments - not in money but in goods - the matter could be negotiated.
=================
(Available at the [anti-Nazi] Nizkor Project site, http://www.nizkor.org)
"In addition to condemning the central heresy of Zionism, we also reject its policy of aggression against all peoples."
--Neturei Karta
We teach [the convert, the ger, the stranger] about the history of the Jews, that, no matter what happens, the Jews will never be destroyed, unlike all the other nations of the world which only last for a short time and then they disappear.
--Eliezer C. Abrahamson, Who Is A Jew
http://members.aol.com/LazerA/Jew.htm
=====================
Perhaps the greatest victim of all these distortions has been Judaism itself. Judaism has always had within it two competing strands, one that affirmed the possibility of healing the world and transcending its violence and cruelty, the other that saw "the Other" (be that the original inhabitants of the land, who were to be subject to genocidal extermination, or later Greeks, Romans, Christians, or now Arab) as inherently evil, beyond redemption, and hence deserving of cruelty and violence. The latter strand, which I call "settler Judaism" because it reflects the ideology of settling the land that reaches its fulfillment as much in the Book of Joshua (and in some quotes in Torah) as in the reckless acts of Ariel Sharon and the current manifestations of the National Religious Party in Israel, was actually a very necessary part of keeping psychologically healthy in the long period of Jewish history when we were the oppressed and we were being psychologically brutalized by imperial occupiers or by our most immoral "hosts" in European societies. But today, when Jews are the rulers over an occupied people, or living in Western societies and sharing the upper crust of income and political power with our non-Jewish neighbors, the supremacist ideas of Settler Judaism create a religious ideology that can only appeal to those stuck in the sense that we are eternally vulernable. For a new generation of Jews, bred in circumstances of power and success, a Judaism based on fear and demeaning of others, a Judaism used as a justification for every nuance of Israeli power and occupation, becomes a Judaism that has very little spiritual appeal. Ironically, the need to be a handmaiden to Israel distorts Judaism and causes a "crisis of continuity" as younger Jews seek spiritual insight outside their inherited tradition.
Yet Judaism has another strand, what I and others call "Renewal Judaism," which started wth the Prophets and has reasserted itself in every major age of Jewish life, insisting that the God of Torah is really the Force of Healing and Transformation, and that our task is not to sanctify existing power relations but to challenge them in the name of a vision of a world of peace and justice. Perhaps the greatest danger that Israel poses to the Jewish people is the extent to which it has helped Jews become cynical about their central task: to proclaim to the world the possibility of possibillity, to affirm the God of the universe as the Force that makes possible the breaking of the tendency of people to do to others the violence and cruelty that was done to them, the Force that makes possible the transcendence of "reality" as it is so that a new world can be shaped. If Israel is ever to be healed, it will only be when it is able to reject this slavish subordination to political realism and once again embrace the transformative spiritual message of renewal.
===========================
This breed of generals was raised on the myth of redemption of the land. A glimpse into this worldview is offered in Sharon's interview with Ari Shavit in the Ha'aretz weekend supplement, April 13, 2001. Everything is entangled into one romantic framework: the fields, the blossom of the orchards, the plough, and the wars. The heart of this ideology is the sanctity of the land. In a 1976 interview that was only published in 1997, Moshe Dayan, who was the defense minister in 1967, explained what led, then, to the decision to attack Syria. In the collective Israeli consciousness of the period, Syria was conceived as a serious threat to the security of Israel, and a constant initiator of aggression towards the residents of northern Israel. But according to Dayan, this view of the role of Syria in those years is "bull-shit"—Syria was not a threat to Israel before 1967: "Just drop it.… I know how at least 80% of all the incidents with Syria started. We were sending a tractor to the demilitarized zone and we knew that the Syrians would shoot." According to Dayan (who at a time of the interview confessed some regrets), what led Israel to provoke Syria this way was the greediness for the land—the idea that it is possible "to grab a piece of land and keep it, until the enemy will get tired and give it to us" (Yediot Aharonot, April 27, 1997).
==================================
and from
===========
Ohr Somayach Tanenbaum College, founded in Jerusalem in 1972, began as a response to a handful of young people who wanted to learn about Judaism. It quickly grew to be not only a respondent to the needs of the Jewish community, but an active initiator of new and innovative educational programs around the world.
==========
During the height of the war, Rabbi Michael Ber Weissmandel managed to stop the deportation of 25,000 Romanian Jews by bribing Adolf Eichmann™s second-in-com-mand. The price: $50,000. Two dollars a head. Two dollars a Jew. About the price of an evening at the cinema.
. . .
During the height of the war, Rabbi Weissmandel's "Working Group" again made contact with Eichmann's aide. After protracted negotiations, the word came through from Berlin that the highest echelons would agree to stop all deportations everywhere except from Poland, for a price. How
much? Two million dollars. For two million dollars, literally millions of lives would be saved. With the receipt of the first $200,000 the Nazis would halt the transports for two months. After that, the next payment would be due.
. . .
Money isn't what it used to be. Two million dollars in 1943 is the equivalent of hundreds of millions of dollars today. In spite of almost superhuman efforts, Rabbi Weissmandel was unable to raise the first $200,000 dollars, and negotia-tions broke down in September 1943.
Would the Nazis have kept their word? No one can know for sure. However, there is evidence that they would have. Two Jews who escaped from Auschwitz reported that dur-ing the time of the negotiations, the trains with their relentless flow of human cargo had suddenly stopped. Even the gas chambers had lain idle. Also, a special transport of Jews from Thereisienstadt who had arrived at Auschwitz were treated with abnormal respect. Perhaps these Jews would have been the first released if the bribe had been paid.
When the negotiations foundered, they were sent to their deaths.
Why couldn’t Rabbi Weissmandel raise the money? The reasons are complex. One reason is that there was an underlying attitude that it was anathema to have any dealings with the Nazis, let alone give them vast sums of money. Legally, too, the Americans would not have taken kindly to pumping millions into the Nazi war machine. All these consid-erations pale into insignificance when faced with the overriding
imperative of the Torah to ransom captives.
=======================
quoting my Jewish friend:
" Further corroboration of the $2 million figure comes from this excerpt from the testimony "Witness Abeles" during the Eichmann trial:"
=================
Q. Could you please tell the Court what was the plan known as the "Europe Plan"?
A. As part of the negotiations with Wisliceny, Rabbi Weissmandel and Andrej Steiner, who later conducted these negotiations, suggested to Wisliceny that in return for an enormous sum of money, the deportations be halted from all over Europe. At that time Wisliceny went to Germany, returned and said that in principle there was such a possibility, except for Poland. Poland was definitively lost to the Jews, but for an amount of two or three million dollars, payable in instalments and in goods, in monthly instalments - not in money but in goods - the matter could be negotiated.
=================
(Available at the [anti-Nazi] Nizkor Project site, http://www.nizkor.org)
"In addition to condemning the central heresy of Zionism, we also reject its policy of aggression against all peoples."
--Neturei Karta
We teach [the convert, the ger, the stranger] about the history of the Jews, that, no matter what happens, the Jews will never be destroyed, unlike all the other nations of the world which only last for a short time and then they disappear.
--Eliezer C. Abrahamson, Who Is A Jew
http://members.aol.com/LazerA/Jew.htm
Hasborah Goy has a Jewish friend???
yeah...but keep up the fabrications of anti-semitism if it makes you happy, "chris".
....including an ex-Israeli who used to work for Mossad!
He got himself into that situation making dirty-deals with gangsters to steal the election! THEN he started the Vietnam war! I bet some lunatic peace-activist did it. Also he's responsible for all this annoying fucking Irish-kitsch bullshit, serves him right
Kennedy was the best US president ever. He ushered in and oversaw the success of the Civil Rights movement and really stuck his neck out for it and it was a shining moment in time when he was in office.
I'm surprised to hear of any kind of connection with Hitler and any Kennedy. I can't imagine it was anything more than very superficial.
I believe most Jews are not evil, but I do believe that most Jews are selfish ( which leads to evil acts) with regards to Israel--- there must be no double standards with regards to racism. Ethnic cleansing can NEVER be justified. I believe that Jews mistakenly think that having Israel give them security, but I believe it is quite the opposite, and really shows that they are complete hypocrites, especially when they whine about the Holocaust. Why should the Jews' suffering mean any more than the Palestinians' suffering? Only a RACIST thinks that way.
I'm surprised to hear of any kind of connection with Hitler and any Kennedy. I can't imagine it was anything more than very superficial.
I believe most Jews are not evil, but I do believe that most Jews are selfish ( which leads to evil acts) with regards to Israel--- there must be no double standards with regards to racism. Ethnic cleansing can NEVER be justified. I believe that Jews mistakenly think that having Israel give them security, but I believe it is quite the opposite, and really shows that they are complete hypocrites, especially when they whine about the Holocaust. Why should the Jews' suffering mean any more than the Palestinians' suffering? Only a RACIST thinks that way.
Posts by a guy who claims his name is "Russ" was just hidden because it was racist propaganda, apparently from American Free Press ("brought to you by the former staff of The Spotlight") or one of their friends. That crap is not allowed here. Sorry this wasn't noticed sooner. If you happen to see any more that we missed, write and tell us about it:
imc-sf-editorial [at] indymedia.org
We'll deal with it immediately.
imc-sf-editorial [at] indymedia.org
We'll deal with it immediately.
Kennedy was a drunkard, an incompetant, and a fraud. Let's remember who committed us to your favorite war (Vietnam) in such a classically Democratic manner (throw troops at it, and it'll go away). Had Mr. Oswald not aired out Mr. Kennedy's brain pan he would have been remembered as the same sort of limp-wristed space holder President as Carter.
Oh, and speaking of the civil rights movement, which party was it that voted overwhelmingly for it's passage? And which party was it that was split right down the middle in opposition? He he he.
Oh, and speaking of the civil rights movement, which party was it that voted overwhelmingly for it's passage? And which party was it that was split right down the middle in opposition? He he he.
Listen, mr. uppity-"editor", I just happen to personally know several Jewish people who enjoy reading the American Free Press, so don't just slander it like that, with no justification.
Walden Pond Books, which is owned by a very nice Jewish man, carries the American Free Press, and told me he "loves" to read it.
It is a Populist newspaper. The Populism began as a grassroots movement, mostly agrarian but now spread out to include the everyday American who works hard for their money. It sometimes is also characterized as appealing to the "little man", and was associated with such diverse leaders Huey Long and George Wallace.
The paper's readership is mostly blue collar and Christian, however, the American Free Press has an appeal to many others, including Jews and also upper middle class conservatives. As many groups these days, the readership includes people who are largely against Zionism,( which I am also against), against gun control (which I am for gun control) , against abortion rights (which I am for pro-choice) and against the government messing with our Constitutional Rights (I'm against that too). So it's a mixed bag.
Let readers check out American Free Press for themselves: http://www.americanfreepress.net
It's got a wide circulation all over the USA and in Europe. Go to Walden Pond Books on Grand Ave. near the Grand Lake Theatre in Oakland to buy a copy. Walden Pond Books is the best bookstore in the world!
Walden Pond Books, which is owned by a very nice Jewish man, carries the American Free Press, and told me he "loves" to read it.
It is a Populist newspaper. The Populism began as a grassroots movement, mostly agrarian but now spread out to include the everyday American who works hard for their money. It sometimes is also characterized as appealing to the "little man", and was associated with such diverse leaders Huey Long and George Wallace.
The paper's readership is mostly blue collar and Christian, however, the American Free Press has an appeal to many others, including Jews and also upper middle class conservatives. As many groups these days, the readership includes people who are largely against Zionism,( which I am also against), against gun control (which I am for gun control) , against abortion rights (which I am for pro-choice) and against the government messing with our Constitutional Rights (I'm against that too). So it's a mixed bag.
Let readers check out American Free Press for themselves: http://www.americanfreepress.net
It's got a wide circulation all over the USA and in Europe. Go to Walden Pond Books on Grand Ave. near the Grand Lake Theatre in Oakland to buy a copy. Walden Pond Books is the best bookstore in the world!
Walden Pond Books is a great independent bookstore that regularly posts and hosts anti-war and anti-apartheid Israel events. It has brand new as well as used books. It is run by a collective, including Jewish members who are against apartheid Israel. I highly recommend that everyone who has a conscience and believes in equal rights for all including Palestinians to patronize Walden Pond Bookstore on 3316 Grand Ave. in Oakland, near the Grand Lake Theatre. Buy your books there, NOT at the big chainstores.
Give it up "Jack"
You can't post that racist crap here. we won't let you. Every time you put one up, we'll take it down. You can't win. We can out last you. There are a bunch of us and we sleep in shifts. You're going to wear out, sooner or later. We're not. You're out of your class here, boyo. Show some sportsmanship and save yourself a sore wrist. Resign gracefully, and slink back under your rock.
You can't post that racist crap here. we won't let you. Every time you put one up, we'll take it down. You can't win. We can out last you. There are a bunch of us and we sleep in shifts. You're going to wear out, sooner or later. We're not. You're out of your class here, boyo. Show some sportsmanship and save yourself a sore wrist. Resign gracefully, and slink back under your rock.
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