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Indybay Feature
tree-sits ride out storms 12/17 release
Young people sitting high up in old growth trees trying to save them from Pacific Lumber/Maxxam's saws are riding out the latest storms to hit the California coast from a particularly precarious perch.
Bay Area Coalition for Headwaters
For immediate release
Dec. 17, 2002
Contact: Karen Pickett, BACH (510) 548-3113
Tree-sitters ride out storms
Flooding And Landslides Are Concern As Rains Come To De-Nuded Hillsides
Young people sitting high up in old growth trees trying to save them from Pacific Lumber/Maxxam's saws are riding out the latest storms to hit the California coast from a particularly precarious perch. As high winds and torrential rains sweep across California, logging activity in the woods is quieted for a moment, but will resume during breaks in the rain, as PL moves in to some of the most valuable marbled murrelet habitat in their remaining old growth holdings. But the weather hasn't slowed down protests, as a record number of tree-sitters occupy PL-owned forests, in efforts to protect old growth trees and irreplaceable wildlife habitat.
The Dept. of Fish and Game last week released more acreage of what is known as "E stands", or occupied habitat of the endangered marbled murrelet. Logging began recently in Timber Harvest Plan (THP) 00-439 in Grizzly Creek, near Grizzly Creek State Park and on Gypsy Mountain, where activist David Gypsy Chain was killed by an angry logger in 1998. Additional occupied habitat in the Nanning Creek area near Scotia was released by DFG last week, clearing the way for PL to move into some of the biggest and best blocks of murrelet habitat left unprotected.
License to destroy the federally and state-listed bird's habitat is permitted because of "incidental take permits" given PL via the Headwaters Deal, signed in 1999. The species has already lost over 96% of its original nesting habitat, primarily due to logging of old growth and residual forest, and populations continue to decline.
Flooding is also expected as water gushes down hillsides that once had the ability to hold the water in the soil. Residents of Freshwater watershed, where about 17 activists now occupy trees, including the long-term sits of Remedy and Wren, two young women occupying trees for 8 months and 6 months respectively, have experienced flooding directly related to increased logging.
New weaker standards were approved for logging in Freshwater Creek last August, allowing more logging in riparian areas, on landslides and within steep, "inner gorge" areas that are especially susceptible to landslides and erosion. The new standards were developed through a "watershed analysis" process designed under the Headwaters Deal. Watershed analysis are supposed to be used to identify problem areas and develop site-specific measures to prevent water quality problems.
In 1999, the Calif. Dept. of Forestry required that Maxxam/PL evaluate whether increased flooding was related to logging in Freshwater Creek and the North Fork Elk River, and imposed a moratorium on approving additional logging operations until this and a watershed analysis were completed. Maxxam/PL did not meet the requirements, but ultimately, CDF backed down, and approved logging operations in these areas. The Freshwater Creek watershed has been heavily logged throughout the past 20 years and less than 5% of its original forest remains. Freshwater Creek was the subject of one of the most extensive watershed studies ever done in California, which concluded that the watershed is severely impaired and that all logging should cease and desist immediately. Pacific Lumber has ignored the analysis and has continued to clear-cut residual old growth forests on steep and unstable slopes while disregarding the concerns of residents.
Inclement weather has not slowed protests, as forest activists work desperately to prevent the irretrievable loss of the residual old growth stands on PL land.
###
--------------
Bay Area Coalition for Headwaters (BACH)
Ecology Center
2530 San Pablo Ave.
Berkeley, CA 94702
phone: 510 548 3113
email: bach - at - igc.org
http://www.HeadwatersPreserve.org
For immediate release
Dec. 17, 2002
Contact: Karen Pickett, BACH (510) 548-3113
Tree-sitters ride out storms
Flooding And Landslides Are Concern As Rains Come To De-Nuded Hillsides
Young people sitting high up in old growth trees trying to save them from Pacific Lumber/Maxxam's saws are riding out the latest storms to hit the California coast from a particularly precarious perch. As high winds and torrential rains sweep across California, logging activity in the woods is quieted for a moment, but will resume during breaks in the rain, as PL moves in to some of the most valuable marbled murrelet habitat in their remaining old growth holdings. But the weather hasn't slowed down protests, as a record number of tree-sitters occupy PL-owned forests, in efforts to protect old growth trees and irreplaceable wildlife habitat.
The Dept. of Fish and Game last week released more acreage of what is known as "E stands", or occupied habitat of the endangered marbled murrelet. Logging began recently in Timber Harvest Plan (THP) 00-439 in Grizzly Creek, near Grizzly Creek State Park and on Gypsy Mountain, where activist David Gypsy Chain was killed by an angry logger in 1998. Additional occupied habitat in the Nanning Creek area near Scotia was released by DFG last week, clearing the way for PL to move into some of the biggest and best blocks of murrelet habitat left unprotected.
License to destroy the federally and state-listed bird's habitat is permitted because of "incidental take permits" given PL via the Headwaters Deal, signed in 1999. The species has already lost over 96% of its original nesting habitat, primarily due to logging of old growth and residual forest, and populations continue to decline.
Flooding is also expected as water gushes down hillsides that once had the ability to hold the water in the soil. Residents of Freshwater watershed, where about 17 activists now occupy trees, including the long-term sits of Remedy and Wren, two young women occupying trees for 8 months and 6 months respectively, have experienced flooding directly related to increased logging.
New weaker standards were approved for logging in Freshwater Creek last August, allowing more logging in riparian areas, on landslides and within steep, "inner gorge" areas that are especially susceptible to landslides and erosion. The new standards were developed through a "watershed analysis" process designed under the Headwaters Deal. Watershed analysis are supposed to be used to identify problem areas and develop site-specific measures to prevent water quality problems.
In 1999, the Calif. Dept. of Forestry required that Maxxam/PL evaluate whether increased flooding was related to logging in Freshwater Creek and the North Fork Elk River, and imposed a moratorium on approving additional logging operations until this and a watershed analysis were completed. Maxxam/PL did not meet the requirements, but ultimately, CDF backed down, and approved logging operations in these areas. The Freshwater Creek watershed has been heavily logged throughout the past 20 years and less than 5% of its original forest remains. Freshwater Creek was the subject of one of the most extensive watershed studies ever done in California, which concluded that the watershed is severely impaired and that all logging should cease and desist immediately. Pacific Lumber has ignored the analysis and has continued to clear-cut residual old growth forests on steep and unstable slopes while disregarding the concerns of residents.
Inclement weather has not slowed protests, as forest activists work desperately to prevent the irretrievable loss of the residual old growth stands on PL land.
###
--------------
Bay Area Coalition for Headwaters (BACH)
Ecology Center
2530 San Pablo Ave.
Berkeley, CA 94702
phone: 510 548 3113
email: bach - at - igc.org
http://www.HeadwatersPreserve.org
For more information:
http://www.HeadwatersPreserve.org
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Comments
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If the "E" stands are really that important, why are most of the treesitters in the Freshwater second growth?
Meow
Meow
hey rufus,
the E stands are important, so are the ancient trees in freshwater.
ruf ruff
the E stands are important, so are the ancient trees in freshwater.
ruf ruff
oh sorry, mis read your first comment, the freshwater sits are in trees which are old growth trees. some of the thp might be second growth, but the sitters remain perched up in old growth.
Then why aren't they equally protected?
I fear the truth of the matter is, the safe confines of greenwood heights makes the whole treesit thing fun. It's a group thing. But the timber there consists of a few residual trees surrounded by second growth.
You are saving the wrong trees. The habitat of freshwater is not of the same quality as the "e" stands. Just because it is easy to be there and get resupplied, does not make it the right place to be.
Meanwhile, real ancient trees fall. Good plan.
meow
I fear the truth of the matter is, the safe confines of greenwood heights makes the whole treesit thing fun. It's a group thing. But the timber there consists of a few residual trees surrounded by second growth.
You are saving the wrong trees. The habitat of freshwater is not of the same quality as the "e" stands. Just because it is easy to be there and get resupplied, does not make it the right place to be.
Meanwhile, real ancient trees fall. Good plan.
meow
Unlike most people her age, 27-year-old "Remedy" hasn't checked her e-mail in over eight months.....
For more information:
http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,5...
meow meow mr hansen..............
errr um.... what ya doing about the tweaker break ins?
errr um.... what ya doing about the tweaker break ins?
I am afraid I don't know who mr. Hansen is. I am assuming law enforcement, but having never been arrested by him personally, I don't know.
I can't help you with the break ins, sorry. I have seen a tweaker break-dance before. It was pretty cool.
Meow,
I can't help you with the break ins, sorry. I have seen a tweaker break-dance before. It was pretty cool.
Meow,
I don't think that Wildcat gets it. There are no right or wrong trees to save. Any tree that is as old as the ancients in Freshwater deserve the protection that the sitters are trying to provide. You seem to know about other trees in other areas that need protection too. Please make arrangements to begin a tree sit where ever you see the need. I know you would be welcome.
OK Remedy's Mom,
I will tell you what I don't get. I don't understand why people who claim to be saving the Earth are not doing what they can to save the best ecosystems. While one tree may not be more significant than another, the ecosystems in question are the important issue. I am not sure what they teach you in Washington, or whatever state you are from, but here in the Golden State we understand the significance of functioning ecosystems. The few large trees along Greenwood Heights road are scabby residuals previously thought too small too cut. They are suffering from compaction due to the county road and some are already leaning. Most will die (whether logged or not) within the next century. No murrelets live there.
The "e" stands contain more old growth and thus are better examples of old growth ecosystems. The limited attention payed to these stands indicates a lack of awareness or concern for the real issue.
From the words I hear your daughter speak, I am left to assume that either you have failed to impart any real information about forestry and ecology to your daughter, or that you are just as ignorant as she is. Either way, maybe when this is all over you can co-author her book, so people can read the paper pages, place the book on their wooden coffee tables, in their wooden houses, and then through the book away when the issue is no longer in fashion.
meow.
I will tell you what I don't get. I don't understand why people who claim to be saving the Earth are not doing what they can to save the best ecosystems. While one tree may not be more significant than another, the ecosystems in question are the important issue. I am not sure what they teach you in Washington, or whatever state you are from, but here in the Golden State we understand the significance of functioning ecosystems. The few large trees along Greenwood Heights road are scabby residuals previously thought too small too cut. They are suffering from compaction due to the county road and some are already leaning. Most will die (whether logged or not) within the next century. No murrelets live there.
The "e" stands contain more old growth and thus are better examples of old growth ecosystems. The limited attention payed to these stands indicates a lack of awareness or concern for the real issue.
From the words I hear your daughter speak, I am left to assume that either you have failed to impart any real information about forestry and ecology to your daughter, or that you are just as ignorant as she is. Either way, maybe when this is all over you can co-author her book, so people can read the paper pages, place the book on their wooden coffee tables, in their wooden houses, and then through the book away when the issue is no longer in fashion.
meow.
all old growth needs to be saved! there is never a wrong tree-sit! the tree-sits now ocupied are getting more public response than any other tree-sit! even the famous luna tree-sit, pales in comparison. I am so glad that those tree-sitters are there ! I know how much they have inspired people to take action, which wildcat seems to know little of. there are people on the east-coast that think that the old growth forest is saved!
They sat in trees during a storm.......what do they want, a cookie?
I never said it was wrong to sit in the freshwater trees. It is just a waste of time. Please, go ahead and waste your resources. Meanwhile the industry will take the best habitat for themselves. While a misled group of devotees huddle in trees close to Remedy, the trees fall in the murrelet habitat. Has anyone ever thought that the freshwater trees were a decoy?
Those trees are economically worthless compared to other places. You are all doing PL a favor by being in freshwater.
Yeah, keep on sitting.
Meow
Those trees are economically worthless compared to other places. You are all doing PL a favor by being in freshwater.
Yeah, keep on sitting.
Meow
Wildcat,
Some valid points. Yes while folks are protecting the old growth in Freshwater, they are hammering the E stands off highway 36 and in Nanning Creek. FYI...nanning creek operations are active, and they slid. In fact, there's been a bunch of debris torrents and road failures throughout PL's holdings in the past couple of days. It's only 210,000 acreas to cover. I think Remedy provides a source of encouragement for others to get active. Their are folks resisting the destruction of the E stands. In fact people risked arrest on 12/17/02 and I'm sure their will be more resistance to the active taking of Murrelet habitat. A direct action at Nanning Creek would be more appropriate now than ever, since the THP has active slides within it due to the inclement weather that's taken place. Stafford slid partially again. Bear Creeks also slid. Soo much to cover, yet it's difficult to get a handle on all of it.
The main haul road in Elk river also failed. Where are the public agencies which are supposed to be protecting the public trust? Why is wildcat out on the front lines documenting this or challenging these things in the court system? Remedy has made her stand as well as others. Obviously the more critique she's getting, maybe the more effective she's becoming, hard to say. Gotta focus on the debris torrents for now.... more later..........
http://indybay.org/news/2002/12/1551719.php
Some valid points. Yes while folks are protecting the old growth in Freshwater, they are hammering the E stands off highway 36 and in Nanning Creek. FYI...nanning creek operations are active, and they slid. In fact, there's been a bunch of debris torrents and road failures throughout PL's holdings in the past couple of days. It's only 210,000 acreas to cover. I think Remedy provides a source of encouragement for others to get active. Their are folks resisting the destruction of the E stands. In fact people risked arrest on 12/17/02 and I'm sure their will be more resistance to the active taking of Murrelet habitat. A direct action at Nanning Creek would be more appropriate now than ever, since the THP has active slides within it due to the inclement weather that's taken place. Stafford slid partially again. Bear Creeks also slid. Soo much to cover, yet it's difficult to get a handle on all of it.
The main haul road in Elk river also failed. Where are the public agencies which are supposed to be protecting the public trust? Why is wildcat out on the front lines documenting this or challenging these things in the court system? Remedy has made her stand as well as others. Obviously the more critique she's getting, maybe the more effective she's becoming, hard to say. Gotta focus on the debris torrents for now.... more later..........
http://indybay.org/news/2002/12/1551719.php
For more information:
http://indybay.org/news/2002/12/1551719.php
Why is wildcat out on the front lines documenting this or challenging these things in the court system?
was supposed to say....
Why isn't wildcat out on the front lines documenting this or challenging these things in the court system?
was supposed to say....
Why isn't wildcat out on the front lines documenting this or challenging these things in the court system?
OK Semp,
Here is the reason I am not out there. I disaggree with your philosophy and methods. The intent of earth first has strayed from ecosystem protection to self promotion. It is no longer what you are "saving" but just that you are "saving" something.
The treesits in freshwater are designed to gain attention in order to perpetuate a lifestyle of protest and disorder that has grown past its use. If it is a choice between protecting good habitat or marginal habitat with good media potential, the latter will always be chosen. The protests must gain enough attention to raise money. Otherwise the whole culture of fighting the system becomes uneconomical and will disintegrate.
But here is the real issue I have. I don't beleive the truth should ever be manipulated or ignored in order to serve a political purpose. No end justifies the sacrifice of truth, and Earth First has a consistant showing of distortion or ignorance of facts. You, semp, are a part of that problem. You only post the news that you feel proves your point. But you never check facts, and wouldn't care otherwise.
The truth here is, I know more about the issues of North Coast forestry and logging that any of your group, and when you bend, manipulate, or ignore the truth, I will call you on it.
Ignorance is no excuse.
Here is the reason I am not out there. I disaggree with your philosophy and methods. The intent of earth first has strayed from ecosystem protection to self promotion. It is no longer what you are "saving" but just that you are "saving" something.
The treesits in freshwater are designed to gain attention in order to perpetuate a lifestyle of protest and disorder that has grown past its use. If it is a choice between protecting good habitat or marginal habitat with good media potential, the latter will always be chosen. The protests must gain enough attention to raise money. Otherwise the whole culture of fighting the system becomes uneconomical and will disintegrate.
But here is the real issue I have. I don't beleive the truth should ever be manipulated or ignored in order to serve a political purpose. No end justifies the sacrifice of truth, and Earth First has a consistant showing of distortion or ignorance of facts. You, semp, are a part of that problem. You only post the news that you feel proves your point. But you never check facts, and wouldn't care otherwise.
The truth here is, I know more about the issues of North Coast forestry and logging that any of your group, and when you bend, manipulate, or ignore the truth, I will call you on it.
Ignorance is no excuse.
oh so now your an expert. should i get down and kneel to you? am i suppose to somehow think your more worthy than those trying to do something? your an armchair activist, criticizing from the sidelines, while others are out there trying to do something. i post what's given to me in a timely fashion, and no i'm not manipulating the facts, just posting as i get it. If i'm getting under your skin, i must be doing something right. How is posting information manipulating the truth. Fact is they are destroying occupied murrelet habitat and the defense of ancient trees is one i feel is worthy of supporting. What are you personally doing to promote sustainable forestry? what are you doing to ensure that these ecosystems exists in seven generations? Why should I give a rats ass about what your narrow minded opinion is? Maybe some of the forest defenders tactics don't work, but who cares, it's not about the economics of developing another big ten enviro group to me. I can support or report on what ever I want to. Unless your an ashcroft fan and desire to take that right away from me.
fear inc.... maybe it is you who should check your facts. I'm not reporting fear incorporated. who else is reporting information on what is taking place? who's reporting what the sec values PL at? who's reporting on what maxxam's stock sits at? who's reporting about the debris torrents that are actively filling in the creeks as i write this in jordan, stitz, freshwater, stafford, and nanning creek? give me some links to your reporting so i can review it and learn from you? your comments offer nothing but dribble? lastly, do you know if i even consider myself an earth firster? do you know what educational background i have? do you know shit from shinola?
You asked why I wasn't helping you out. I answered. If that bothers you, that's too bad. I am not too concerned about it. I know how you feel about the issue. It is apparent in every slanted article you post. I never implied that admiration was due. I just have no good things to say about people that use baseless accusations and weighted words to convince an ignorant reading audience that the world is falling apart. It isn't.
And it never will.
Not even after 7 generations.
No matter how hard people try.
meow
And it never will.
Not even after 7 generations.
No matter how hard people try.
meow
Semp,
You are not a reporter. A reporter would investigate and report the facts of a story. You are an environmental cheerleader; an editorialist at best. Please don't confuse the legitimate profession of journalism with your rehashing the words of Cynthia Elkins and Karen Pickett. The assumption that your articles are strictly information based is laughable in its blind ignorance.
But please, post what you will. Still no article on the contempt of court issue or the hunger strike failure. I was hoping to see you spin those, but I guess even your cheerleading is not that positive.
You are not a reporter. A reporter would investigate and report the facts of a story. You are an environmental cheerleader; an editorialist at best. Please don't confuse the legitimate profession of journalism with your rehashing the words of Cynthia Elkins and Karen Pickett. The assumption that your articles are strictly information based is laughable in its blind ignorance.
But please, post what you will. Still no article on the contempt of court issue or the hunger strike failure. I was hoping to see you spin those, but I guess even your cheerleading is not that positive.
ya know what, your correct, maybe i'm not a reporter. technically, since i don't write these things, you should call me a reposter. yes, i repost material sent to me. i offer the reposts for people to read at their will. if they don't like what they read, they can look elsewhere on the web. does serve as an open forum for people to find out some of what goes on in the north coast. and your correct, the world will survive long after we wipe out hundreds more of species into extinction. so what else is new. again, if you don't like what your reading and think it's fear based reposting, what ya reading it for?
I told you before, I check the information you post and give another side of the story. If this is going to be an informative web site, there should be as much truth as possible. Consider my comments part of the information process.
I think you will agree, readers are better off with the best information possible. Just doing my part.
Meow
I think you will agree, readers are better off with the best information possible. Just doing my part.
Meow
I have seen for myself the class E stands we are discussing. The facts that Semp reported are true. These habitats are getting clear-cut and shelterwood removal (the largest trees get cut). The torrents of rain are most certainly causing landslides. The sits in Freshwater are to bolster support for the Freshwater community that has experienced unreasonable flooding in the past couple of years due to logging. he sits are in old-growth and extremely large second growth. These trees are right on the side of the road, perhaps holding the roadway up in some places. If they get cut the residents will have a new view of the Freshwater clearcuts that you can see all around from the top of the trees. Last year an inch of rain made the creek rise above the banks, the least amount of rain ever to cause flooding in the valley. What facts exactly are not being told by Semp?
Hello Rio,
I am assuming that you have read the previous postings and still could not decipher what I feel is lacking from semps posts. Well, apparently I do not have semp to blame, as those are just reposts.
Here is an omitted fact:
The ruling from Juge Golden.
After his first and second ruling were made, protesters took to the woods (stay in hand) to stop "illegal" logging. Elkins spouted off to the media of "gross corperate malfeasence". There was an air of vigilante justice on the part of the protesters, thinking that the police were ignoring the law. Then it turns out that Pacific Lumber had the correct interpretation all along. Epic dropped the contempt charge and not one person posted any information about it. That was an ignored fact.
By the way. Most of greenwood heights road is on the ridge. The trees are not adding to its structural integrity. Even if they were, redwood lose only slight root growth after they are cut. Thus, the stumps would still keep the soil together. The road is not going to fall apart due to logging.
One thing that will happen eventually, is when those trees start to die, the wind is going to drop them across the road, creating a danger for the residents. Thanks for protecting a saftey hazard.
meow
I am assuming that you have read the previous postings and still could not decipher what I feel is lacking from semps posts. Well, apparently I do not have semp to blame, as those are just reposts.
Here is an omitted fact:
The ruling from Juge Golden.
After his first and second ruling were made, protesters took to the woods (stay in hand) to stop "illegal" logging. Elkins spouted off to the media of "gross corperate malfeasence". There was an air of vigilante justice on the part of the protesters, thinking that the police were ignoring the law. Then it turns out that Pacific Lumber had the correct interpretation all along. Epic dropped the contempt charge and not one person posted any information about it. That was an ignored fact.
By the way. Most of greenwood heights road is on the ridge. The trees are not adding to its structural integrity. Even if they were, redwood lose only slight root growth after they are cut. Thus, the stumps would still keep the soil together. The road is not going to fall apart due to logging.
One thing that will happen eventually, is when those trees start to die, the wind is going to drop them across the road, creating a danger for the residents. Thanks for protecting a saftey hazard.
meow
Wild Cat seems to be posing as someone who actually gives a shit about the redwood Ecosystem, and yet has the ignorant pompuous attitude of a timber industry lackey. So now the trees that are being occupied on Greenwood Heights Rd. are "Safety Hazards". My Question for WildCat: have you actually ever been there and seen the trees that are being occupied? Remedy's tree is about 16 ft diameter. You act like it's some scraggly 2nd growth. Murrellets could live in it easily, if it gets saved, along with the trees around it. It's true that from an ecosystem perspective, Nanning Cr. and Grizzly Cr. are more pristine and provide more habitat ( or did before they began cutting last week) but there were tree-sits in both those places too! The fact that the media ignores tree-sits until someone has sat in them without coming down for six months is proof that our corporate owned media is crap, not that tree-sits are wrong or in the wrong place. Aradia has been occupied for nearly 11 months constantly, but not by one person, by several rotating sitters. The Aradia tree-sit is older than Remedies but you won't hear about it on the Today Show because the corporate media only identifies with "individuals" and not movements. Movements are ignored, individuals are made into celebrities like Julia Butterfly and are distanced from the movements that they originally came out of. You can blame Earth First! if you want for this, but it's always been a tactic of the Corporate media to focus on individuals not groups. North Coast Earth First! in fact opposed the focus on Julia Butterfly and the celebrity phenomenon that followed. Remedy is an autonomous person, she doesn't take orders from anyone anyway, as is true of most activists today. Earth First! is not the only group doing tree-sits anymore anyhow, and group decisions have often by surpassed by indiviudal autonomous action. In other words, many a tree-sit is the result of individuals or small affinity groups who just go out and do it, not Earth Frist! or any large groups deciding where and when to do it. Therefore, sometimes the placement of tree-sits ends up in not the most ecologically sensitive areas. But all large trees at this point should be spared, simply because they can and will provide habitat for the future. So being a lameshit, nit-pick like Wild Cat is about as helpful as sending donation money to Pacific Lumber to buy more Chainsaws.
Tree-sitters and all forest activists need your support. Drive up Greenwood Rd and bring them some wool socks and a hot meal, you'll feel good about it! Or go to Grizzly Cr. and plug in with the ground support crews. Educate others, hassle your representatives in Congress, boycott redwood products, write letters to the editors, but please don't just sit there, do something, whatever you can, to help!
Tree-sitters and all forest activists need your support. Drive up Greenwood Rd and bring them some wool socks and a hot meal, you'll feel good about it! Or go to Grizzly Cr. and plug in with the ground support crews. Educate others, hassle your representatives in Congress, boycott redwood products, write letters to the editors, but please don't just sit there, do something, whatever you can, to help!
aradia has been occupied off and on for four years
In fact, I heard a lawyer from EPIC say that they didn't file contempt charges because they were busy with the merits of the case. Judge Golden stated to the PL lawyers at a hearing once, "What part of no logging don't you understand?" PL is notorious for breaking laws, racking up at least 300 violations since 1998.
Everyone knows that MAXXAM bought out PL and most of the redwood ecosystem in their control is being cut just to pay back the interest on the loan for the junk bonds.
The magnificent redwood ecosystem is being decimated at such a rapid rate because PL seems to be liqiudating its assets and getting ready to sell. Now the "Class E" habitats are getting axed by corporate and political greed. Gray Davis is a liar and a scmuck.
Unfortunately the people that are ruining the forests won't be around for the aftermath.
Everyone knows that MAXXAM bought out PL and most of the redwood ecosystem in their control is being cut just to pay back the interest on the loan for the junk bonds.
The magnificent redwood ecosystem is being decimated at such a rapid rate because PL seems to be liqiudating its assets and getting ready to sell. Now the "Class E" habitats are getting axed by corporate and political greed. Gray Davis is a liar and a scmuck.
Unfortunately the people that are ruining the forests won't be around for the aftermath.
Hey Obvioius,
I wrapped those trees in harvest boundary. Yeah, I think I have seen them before. There are three large trees in that plan. One is already leaning. But feel free to give me more information on what I already know.
Don't worry, I haven't just been sitting on the sidelines as you suggest.
Rio,
So are you suggesting that EPIC could have stopped the logging and slapped PL with a fine for contempt, but they decieded not to because it would distract from their real case. I find that hard to beleive. But if that is true, you can fault Epic with the destruction of the "E" stands.
Personally, I think that they had no case. Golden was talking about plans that had not been approved. If your story is correct, I think you should have some serious concerns with EPIC.
Meow
I wrapped those trees in harvest boundary. Yeah, I think I have seen them before. There are three large trees in that plan. One is already leaning. But feel free to give me more information on what I already know.
Don't worry, I haven't just been sitting on the sidelines as you suggest.
Rio,
So are you suggesting that EPIC could have stopped the logging and slapped PL with a fine for contempt, but they decieded not to because it would distract from their real case. I find that hard to beleive. But if that is true, you can fault Epic with the destruction of the "E" stands.
Personally, I think that they had no case. Golden was talking about plans that had not been approved. If your story is correct, I think you should have some serious concerns with EPIC.
Meow
--- EPIC is suing the departments of Fish and Game and CDF for allowing the actions of PL. The HCP is illegal in the first place according to Federal EPA laws. EPIC had to file for contempt, not just "slap PL with contempt". They are working through the legal system, which is slow, to hold the "representative" departments of the government responsible for their duties of protecting the public. I fault the departments of CDF and Fish and Game for behaving irresponsibly in protecting the people. Judge Golden ordered PL to stop logging and they didn't.
In my experience, the so-called justice system is anything but just. I have little faith in the judge's ability to be fair. The board of the departments are appointed by the executive branch, the governors. Governor Gray Davis weakened the boards and allowed his large financial contributors, such as PL, to get away with murder.
Corporations only have Constitutional "personhood" through a Supreme Court case from a 1880's. This is now being challenged and hopefully corporations will lose their disguise of legal protection. This too will take a very long time.
Justice is not cheap, easy or fast. MAXXAM's PL is the one responsible for destroying the Class E stands. The people destroying the forest are the irresponsible ones, not the people defending the forest.
In my experience, the so-called justice system is anything but just. I have little faith in the judge's ability to be fair. The board of the departments are appointed by the executive branch, the governors. Governor Gray Davis weakened the boards and allowed his large financial contributors, such as PL, to get away with murder.
Corporations only have Constitutional "personhood" through a Supreme Court case from a 1880's. This is now being challenged and hopefully corporations will lose their disguise of legal protection. This too will take a very long time.
Justice is not cheap, easy or fast. MAXXAM's PL is the one responsible for destroying the Class E stands. The people destroying the forest are the irresponsible ones, not the people defending the forest.
Now that Wildcat has shown his true colors, (he probably likes the smell of Charles Hurwitz's ass so much since his nose is permanently stuck there from kissing it) we can debate some of his assertions.
"I just have no good things to say
about people that use baseless accusations and weighted words to convince an ignorant reading audience that the world is falling apart. It isn't.
And it never will.
Not even after 7 generations.
No matter how hard people try."
Wildcat has been trying hard to portray himself as unbiased and reasonable, but in fact his accusations are baseless. He never showed that Semp ever got even one fact wrong, (only that he didn't report some smaller details like EPIC dropping the contempt charges). And yet his own assertion is that "the world is not falling apart" is in fact baseless.
Now I suppose we could argue over the definition of "the world" and since huge chunks of the planet are not breaking off and floating out into space, wildcat can make his case. BUT if you actually analyze things like ecosystem destruction, species extinction, deforestation, desertification, pollution and climate change these things are happening, and many could rightly describe this as "the world falling apart".
Now here's some evidence, taking just one of the above examples, (in light of current weather patterns) - Climate Change:
from http://tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/6958
Rising temperature does not come as a surprise to atmospheric scientists who analyze the climate effects of rising atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide, the principal greenhouse gas. Each year since detailed recordkeeping began in 1959, the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere has climbed to a new high, making it one of the most predictable of all global environmental trends.
The rise in atmospheric CO2 levels is the result of massive fossil fuel burning that has simply overwhelmed nature's capacity to absorb carbon dioxide. The temperature rises observed over the last two decades are in line with the results of research using computerized global climate models to project the effects of rising CO2 levels on the Earth's climate.
The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), a group of more than 1,500 of the world's leading climate scientists, reports that if atmospheric CO2 levels continue to rise as projected, the Earth's average temperature will rise by 1.4-5.8 degrees Celsius during this century. The lower end of the projected increases would lead to a 0.14 degree rise in temperature per decade during this century, roughly the same as during each of the last two decades of the last century. But the higher end of the projected temperature range means an increase of nearly 0.6 degrees per decade, a rate that could be extraordinarily disruptive to both the Earth's ecosystem and the economy that depends upon it.
One of the most sensitive indicators of higher temperature is ice melting. Scientists now report ice melting in all the world's major mountain ranges, including the Rocky Mountains, the Andes, the Alps, and the Himalayas. In Alaska, where temperatures in some regions have risen 5-10 degrees Celsius over the norm, ice is melting far faster than had earlier been reported.
On Africa's snow-covered Kilimanjaro, the area covered by snow and ice has shrunk by 80 percent since 1900. Lonnie Thompson, Ohio State University glaciologist, reports that all the snow and ice there may disappear by 2020. For Americans, another landmark -- Glacier National Park -- may be forced to change its name. Half of its glaciers have already disappeared, and the U.S. Geological Survey projects that the remaining ones will disappear within the next 30 years.
Scientists report that ice cover in the Arctic Ocean shrank to 2 million square miles this summer compared with an average of 2.4 million square miles during the preceding 23 years. The thinning of the ice is proceeding even faster. Since this ice is already in the water, its loss will not affect sea level, but when incoming sunlight strikes snow and ice, 80 percent of it bounces back into space and 20 percent is converted to heat. Conversely, when the incoming sunlight hits open water, only 20 percent is reflected and 80 percent is converted into heat, warming the region.
-----
This article didn't even mention how deforestation contributes to climate change, but most knowledgeable people now know that forests absorb carbon dioxide and give off oxygen, thus helping offset the green house effect. Thus cutting down forests increases global warming.
If you'd like some evidence about Species Extinction (within this generation - not the next seven). I could post some next time.
Thanks for caring Wildcat (brown-noser)
"I just have no good things to say
about people that use baseless accusations and weighted words to convince an ignorant reading audience that the world is falling apart. It isn't.
And it never will.
Not even after 7 generations.
No matter how hard people try."
Wildcat has been trying hard to portray himself as unbiased and reasonable, but in fact his accusations are baseless. He never showed that Semp ever got even one fact wrong, (only that he didn't report some smaller details like EPIC dropping the contempt charges). And yet his own assertion is that "the world is not falling apart" is in fact baseless.
Now I suppose we could argue over the definition of "the world" and since huge chunks of the planet are not breaking off and floating out into space, wildcat can make his case. BUT if you actually analyze things like ecosystem destruction, species extinction, deforestation, desertification, pollution and climate change these things are happening, and many could rightly describe this as "the world falling apart".
Now here's some evidence, taking just one of the above examples, (in light of current weather patterns) - Climate Change:
from http://tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/6958
Rising temperature does not come as a surprise to atmospheric scientists who analyze the climate effects of rising atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide, the principal greenhouse gas. Each year since detailed recordkeeping began in 1959, the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere has climbed to a new high, making it one of the most predictable of all global environmental trends.
The rise in atmospheric CO2 levels is the result of massive fossil fuel burning that has simply overwhelmed nature's capacity to absorb carbon dioxide. The temperature rises observed over the last two decades are in line with the results of research using computerized global climate models to project the effects of rising CO2 levels on the Earth's climate.
The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), a group of more than 1,500 of the world's leading climate scientists, reports that if atmospheric CO2 levels continue to rise as projected, the Earth's average temperature will rise by 1.4-5.8 degrees Celsius during this century. The lower end of the projected increases would lead to a 0.14 degree rise in temperature per decade during this century, roughly the same as during each of the last two decades of the last century. But the higher end of the projected temperature range means an increase of nearly 0.6 degrees per decade, a rate that could be extraordinarily disruptive to both the Earth's ecosystem and the economy that depends upon it.
One of the most sensitive indicators of higher temperature is ice melting. Scientists now report ice melting in all the world's major mountain ranges, including the Rocky Mountains, the Andes, the Alps, and the Himalayas. In Alaska, where temperatures in some regions have risen 5-10 degrees Celsius over the norm, ice is melting far faster than had earlier been reported.
On Africa's snow-covered Kilimanjaro, the area covered by snow and ice has shrunk by 80 percent since 1900. Lonnie Thompson, Ohio State University glaciologist, reports that all the snow and ice there may disappear by 2020. For Americans, another landmark -- Glacier National Park -- may be forced to change its name. Half of its glaciers have already disappeared, and the U.S. Geological Survey projects that the remaining ones will disappear within the next 30 years.
Scientists report that ice cover in the Arctic Ocean shrank to 2 million square miles this summer compared with an average of 2.4 million square miles during the preceding 23 years. The thinning of the ice is proceeding even faster. Since this ice is already in the water, its loss will not affect sea level, but when incoming sunlight strikes snow and ice, 80 percent of it bounces back into space and 20 percent is converted to heat. Conversely, when the incoming sunlight hits open water, only 20 percent is reflected and 80 percent is converted into heat, warming the region.
-----
This article didn't even mention how deforestation contributes to climate change, but most knowledgeable people now know that forests absorb carbon dioxide and give off oxygen, thus helping offset the green house effect. Thus cutting down forests increases global warming.
If you'd like some evidence about Species Extinction (within this generation - not the next seven). I could post some next time.
Thanks for caring Wildcat (brown-noser)
Rio,
Golden said to not allow plans in the system to go forward. It is pretty apparent what he meant by now, otherwise, PL would not be logging. I don't mean to imply that EPIC's real suit is groundless, that will be shown by the judge. It is easier to understand a judge when you wait until he is finished talking.
Obvious,
I never hid my colors behind anything. I was giving my opinions and experiences. While I can see you don't share my perspective, I hardly find it necessary for personal attacks. I have never met Mr. Hurowitz, and neither have I ever had my nose up anyone's ass. I am assuming your words are a juvenille metaphor, but crass language does not help to get your point across. My last posting stated that semp was not to blame because semp reposts other bits of information from other sources. I noted omissions from the news, but mostly was reminding those on this page how futile the last few months of action have been. The "e" stands will go.
As for the Earth and it's demise, I know of, and understand global warming. But it will not be the end of the world. Problems will be fixed, and people will move on. That is how people do things. As for species information, why don't you give a list of all the species that have gone extinct in the redwood country in the last 100 years. It must be a huge list if the world is falling apart.
Or perhaps there is greater species loss in other countries where timber harvests go on unchecked and wildfires burn for months adding to the atmospheric carbon levels. While you stop logging in the US, the species irradication in the rest of the world quickens.
But you know what's going on. You are informed, and can download information.
There is nothing baseless about my statement. The Earth will be here until either a large meteor or the heat death of the Universe have something to say about it.
Meow
Golden said to not allow plans in the system to go forward. It is pretty apparent what he meant by now, otherwise, PL would not be logging. I don't mean to imply that EPIC's real suit is groundless, that will be shown by the judge. It is easier to understand a judge when you wait until he is finished talking.
Obvious,
I never hid my colors behind anything. I was giving my opinions and experiences. While I can see you don't share my perspective, I hardly find it necessary for personal attacks. I have never met Mr. Hurowitz, and neither have I ever had my nose up anyone's ass. I am assuming your words are a juvenille metaphor, but crass language does not help to get your point across. My last posting stated that semp was not to blame because semp reposts other bits of information from other sources. I noted omissions from the news, but mostly was reminding those on this page how futile the last few months of action have been. The "e" stands will go.
As for the Earth and it's demise, I know of, and understand global warming. But it will not be the end of the world. Problems will be fixed, and people will move on. That is how people do things. As for species information, why don't you give a list of all the species that have gone extinct in the redwood country in the last 100 years. It must be a huge list if the world is falling apart.
Or perhaps there is greater species loss in other countries where timber harvests go on unchecked and wildfires burn for months adding to the atmospheric carbon levels. While you stop logging in the US, the species irradication in the rest of the world quickens.
But you know what's going on. You are informed, and can download information.
There is nothing baseless about my statement. The Earth will be here until either a large meteor or the heat death of the Universe have something to say about it.
Meow
Tell me the first critter to go extinct and why? otherwise don't waste my time any more.
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