Some resources by anti-Zionists of Jewish origin

I hope that Zionism will go away. It is an aberration, born of negative, calcified paraoia that brings a self-fulfilling prophecy of self-destruction. Leave ancient battles in the past. Let go of the Holocaust, don't enshrine it and entomb yourselves in it, shutting yourself off from the rest of the world.

Remember the Ten Commandments. Remember to love all the people of the world. Remember the Golden Rule.

Palestine-Israel can be the homeland to many peoples of many faiths, just like America is.

'Oneworld': thanks for the excellent post. Really good resources.

Zionists have fed and feed off of anti-semitism. They love anti-semitism. They wouldn't know what to do without it. Some of the biggest anti-Semites in recent times have been staunch supporters of Zionism -- think: Richard Nixon, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell....

You can include Billy Graham in that list -- remember that infamous recording that was made with him and Nixon...

This is very similar to South Africa. A few courageous South African whites rejected their affiliations because their sense of justice had been aroused and stood squarely against the things being perpetrated by their countrymen. This pretty much removed any resentment people felt. What made these white South Africans and those people of Jewish origin so admired, is that they are doing this because their sense of justice was provoked and they are willing to shed any affiliations they have to right the wrongs they see. And that is one of the most admirable things anyone can do...

I never did get anyone to answer my question with a definition, only boisterous refusal of THE (my) definition. So this question bears repeating:

If I call someone a ZIONIST, how do I know that I'm using the term correctly?

Who are we talking about when we use the word ZIONIST?

I know who I'm talking about, but who are you talking about?

Tom, I'm pretty sure if you had a clue what you were talking about, you wouldn't be trolling all the time with this dumb question. Now stop trying to close the discussion or start your own thread on this. If nobody cares, tough shit.

Zionists include (but are not limited to) ALL Israeli Jews and their decedents living in the Zionist country of Israel.

1. "Zionism implies a certain set of beliefs" - First and foremost of those beliefs is the necessity and justification for Jews to live in Israel as prophesied and has been denied them for more than 2000 years. If an Israeli Jew lives in Israel (or the fictitious state sometimes called Palestine), then they do so by choice. This simple act of habitation allows the Zionist creation to exist, as it should have existed for the several previous millennia.

2. "Habitation IS the problem" - Why? Because Arabs previously occupied the land, just like the rest of the Middle East. Immigrant Israeli Jews and their descendents are not looked to kindly upon by these Islamic fundamentalist religious radicals. They claim the infidels live in homes they stole, on land they stole, in a nation they stole, even though they can’t explain how this thievery took place. It’s as if you watch a man walk into you home, take up residence, call it his own, and then you call him a thief. Unfortunately for you, you figure out that it was never your home to begin with, and in fact you are the squatter.

3. "Zionism supports the of rights of Jewish societies"- Most Jews are in agreement about the need to maintain Jewish Holy sites throughout Israel, but especially in Jerusalem. This is obviously a Western attitude, as well as European, otherwise there would be no such thing as Zionism. If Zionists want Israel to be a Jewish country, that is their right.

Tom, I'm pretty sure if you had a clue what you were talking about, you wouldn't be trolling all the time with this dumb question. Now stop trying to close the discussion or start your own thread on this. If nobody cares, tough shit.

That's a very suspect attitude.

How can you combat the Zionists if you don't even know who they are or have an accepted standard for identifying them?

If everyone is using a different definition, then a solution can never be found because everyone is working on a different problem.

How bizarre it is to spend so much time and energy against the Zionist forces when to question their identity is taboo.

So how can the rest of us be expected to agree?

That comment makes little sense. If you can identity Zionist groups of differing opinions, that means you can identify the Zionists as a whole.

For the sake of argument, who are the Zionists to you?

Anybody who says they are a Zionist, is a Zionist. Anybody who supports their endeavor, may as well be, so let's call them de facto Zionists. This includes, not only Israel's amen corner in Congress and the scores of millions of Christian fundamentalists who believe that the State of Israel is part of God''s plan, but also every American taxpayer. "Support" does not mean agree with. It means "pay the bills of."

But what, exactly, is Zionism? Zionists themselves disagree. Some feel that it means supporting a Jewish state. This batch of Zionists disagree on the borders of the state. One extreme believes it should stretch from the Nile to the Euphrates. At the other extreme are those who believe in the 1948 borders. A moderate compromise is made by those who believe the borders should be fixed at their 1967 position.

Statist Zionists also disagree on the nature of the state. On one extreme are a handful of free market fanatics, Orthodox theocrats, and outright fascists. At the other extreme are the pure socialists and a handful of outright commies. The compromise position is the Euro-style democratic socialism currently in practice.

Then there are the anti-state, ultra-Orthodox Zionists. They believe that the State of Israel is an abomination before G-d, because it was established by men, and not by the Messiah. They believe they have a right to live in the Land, but not to rule it or to call it Israel because that is the the right of G-d only.

There are other anti-state Jews who are not Zionists. Some believe that the Diaspora was G-d’s will and that to settle in Israel is a sin. Some of these are extremely vocal, though they are tiny minority. Some of these live in Israel anyway, because they were born there, but they do not support the State, let alone its expansion. Others don’t believe in G-d, or God, or whatever your call it. They believe that Jewishness is an ethnic, not religious, phenomenon and most agree that Zionists are an embarrassment to Jews of every persuasion.

Not every Jew living in Israel live there because they are Zionists. Some live there because they were born there, they grew up their, that’s where their family and friends live and where else are they supposed to go? Not every Zionist lives in Israel. As I pointed out already, some aren’t even Jews, let alone Israelis.
This issue is so complicated that I’m sure I must of omitted somebody. Forgive me. It was an oversight. Don’t take it personally.

But its even more complicated than that. Allow me to give an example. It’s a true story. Two Jews from Brooklyn married. They were atheist hippies. She had endemetriosis and couldn’t conceive. They adopted a baby girl of Asian descent. Then the endemetriosis remitted, and they had four more kids the natural way. Then they converted to Orthodoxy. They keep Kosher. They attend shul. Thy got really into it. They all emigrated to Israel and settled in Tel Aviv, where both work as school teachers. Their oldest daughter was bat mitzvahed, and lives in Israel as an Orthodox Jew. and by most people’s definition, as a Zionist, though making aliyah was in no way, shape or form her personal choice. She was a child. Her parents brought her there. It’s the only home she knows. As far as I’m concerned, she’s living proof that while Jews are an ethnic group, they sure as hell aren’t a race. So whatever else you can call Zionism, racist isn’t it, because Jews aren’t a race. A solid case can be made that it makes what they are, and what they do, even worse.

But let’s get back to the story. In 1991, I was living with their cousin, S----, also from Brooklyn, an atheist, red-diaper baby. That made these people my common law cousins. As far as I’m concerned, common law *is* law. So these people, who I have never even met, are part of my family.

I turned on the TV one night, and l what do I see, Saddam Hussein is shooting Scuds at them. S----- was watching, too. She’s vociferously anti-Zionist, thinks that Israelis are obnoxious, rude, arrogant people, and an embarrassment to righteous Jews everywhere. She hasn’t spoken to the cousins since before they even moved to Israel. Nevertheless, she is very worried that her cousins are about to be murdered in cold blood by a fascist dictator whom we both detest. I’m glued to the tube, listening with one ear to her worry allowed as she paced. A Patriot missile, fired in defense of a racist state we both also detest, intercepts a Scud. They explode simultaneously, all over the sky. While I didn’t cheer, I did find myself an heaving an involuntary sigh of relief.

Now you tell me, was that right or wrong of me? How was I supposed to feel that night? Should I have cheered for one side, or for the other, or should I have cheered at all?