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Daniel Sheehan: New Paradigm versus Clash of Civilizations + Context on Politics
by Mike
Sunday Nov 17th, 2002 2:39 AM
History of evolution of differing paradigms under which the Western world has organized itself by; national security state history in the context of Nazi incorporation into the CIA and evolution of covert operations like Iran-Contra; context on figures like George H. W. Bush and George W. Bush; his view on where we are today and where we need to go; 100 minute speech in MP3 download or stream format

This is a meaty speech - likely a mind bender for many, to be sure.

Daniel Sheehan discusses a number of topics.  The primary focus is an examination of the paradigms under which humanity organizes itself.  However, as anyone that knows Sheehan's history would appreciate, more than half of his talk puts into context the geopolitical views of those associated with George H. W. Bush, the national security state and much more.  The catalyst for his presentation was September 11, and I believe the talk was delivered in October, 2001.  I don't know the exact date.  It's long, but EXTREMELY thought provoking.

As a social justice lawyer, Daniel Sheehan has worked on some of the biggest investigative cases in the last few decades, including the Karen Silkwood, Iran/Contra and Pentagon Papers.  

High Quality Audio MP3

Low Bandwidth Version MP3

by pointer
Sunday Nov 17th, 2002 5:37 AM
http://www.indybay.org/news/2002/10/152689.php
by a
Sunday Nov 17th, 2002 10:13 AM
Wow. This was a fascinating, provoking overview of a lot of history, post WWII and including some of the previous centuries. The only part where I lost some respect for the man and am now suspicious of the whole package is where he started talking about UFOs. He claims the US space program is really to defend us against aliens.
by Anti-Bug
Sunday Nov 17th, 2002 11:19 AM
Sheehan's silly ideas like "The Secret Team" have more in common with spy novels than reality. He really fucked up the poor saps who gave money to his former Christic Institute with taking his conspiracy theories to court.

Real revolution is not going to include well intentioned freaks like him wearing suits and ties and pointing fingers at all the bad guys--and leaning up and pointing out all the UFOs too. It's going to be totally social in content. Poor fools who spin all their wheels spinning yarns about the intrigue of secret agents and their cabals. Poor fools who waste their time listening to these quasi-celebrity fools.

Anti-Bug
by mike
Sunday Nov 17th, 2002 1:18 PM
In censoring a George Will piece posted by Bush Admirer, the editor wrote: < For what it's worth, I hid this particular article without even reading it first. Usually, I read them first, but in this case it wasn't necessary. BA likes it.>

Not to put too fine a point on it, "editor," but you're a Stalinist piece of shit. Reinstate the post.
by guess I picked a bad fake name
Sunday Nov 17th, 2002 1:54 PM
oh......now I get it. I just went over to the "latest comments" link and see that that other mike dude is posting to many threads, trying to get his message out because apparently "he" thinks he's getting censored.

Mike (not so Mike, but what the hell)
by what drives this guy?
Sunday Nov 17th, 2002 2:07 PM
>posting to many threads . . . because apparently "he" thinks he's getting censored.

He posts off comments off the topic of the thread they're for the same reason anyone does. He's an *sshole. He must be an *sshole. Nobody else does something like that on purpose. Once or twice maybe, once in a long while, somebody posts off topic by mistake or out of ignorance. But only *ssholes do it repeatedly and/or do it as spam. It must be a trait of the breed.

Spam is not allowed here. Neither are *ssholes.

This is your last warning, mike. Shape up or ship out.
by AlexBerkman
Sunday Nov 17th, 2002 2:51 PM
Nessie,

It's so easy and armchair to call yourself a "revolutionary" and imply that those who don't agree with you--the ones who doubt National Equirier stories about UFOs, the ones who don't hot-shot 'round town in leather on BMW motorcycles, the ones who organize, theorize and develop a grasp of history--are "counter-revolutionaries. If people like Bukunin, Kropotkin, Emma Goldman, the Wobs, etc., etc. were wasting all their fucking time digging through gov't reports trying to undercover dirt or secret collusion between agencies of the ruling class, we'd NEVER have their marvellous legacy of organizing and activity. And I believe there was something in their characters that would never have taken Prozac and spent most of their social lives posting banal crackpot half-truths and tall tale speculations on the internet. I'm sure they'd be at workplaces having face-to-face dialogues about the vision of collectively organizing for a better world. Sure, they'd critique the bourgeois system, but that doesn't take nearly ALL one's waking hours in front of a CRT screen. They'd inspire by examples of working class successes and high points in the age-old struggle against capital. They certainly WOULDN'T waste other people free time with "rubbing their noses" in it fables about all those guns on the Grassy Knoll in Dallas, silly espionage stories about Poindexter and North and drugs and guns and all. nessie, have you ever heard of China and the Opium Wars? Haven't capitialists always got mixed up in EVERY murky business, be it the gun, flesh or drug trade?

Read revolutionaries inspire with examples of revolutionary "possibilities" from the past and cracks in the system for possibilities in the future. Not secret plans and cabals that you call "fascisitic". What bourgeois system hasn't had "fascism" in its bag of tricks at the ready should social conditions necessitate them? Working people aren't gonna put their asses on the line because some bourgeois scumbag like Wellstone got offed. They are gonna insurrect because they can see that it's in their best interest to and because they believe that it is possible to manifest their--collective--vision of living more freely.

So nessie-"the Bug", please stop creating fear and then putting your cookie cutter over events to give them the spin that will scare poor and working Americans into what....? Retreating into their shells and REALLY creating a fascism because people feel hopeless because conspiracy bugs like you make they feel helpless and victims or a mysterious system that you only obfuscate with your "partial critiques" that judge so much of the world through the rosy lenses of a moral compass. You seem never to take the time or energy to point out the foundations of the exploitation and alienation of the systems and seem to take a perverse relish in cataloguing its sypmtoms. If you read more analysis of WHAT this system is, you wouldn't need fairy tales to explain why there are so many "bad apples". I don't think you get that capitalism is a social relationship--you treat it like it's a static, Manicheanistic thing and that by pointing out the "evil" half, the morally upright half will somehow be strengthened. I call you ideas reactionary and the kissing cousins of the fascism that you seem to get such a sexual charge in denouncing.

So nessie, more thinking and less fictionalizing please.

Alex
by mike
Sunday Nov 17th, 2002 2:58 PM
the urge to mix it up is a creative urge.
by Alex
Sunday Nov 17th, 2002 4:45 PM
nessie, was wellstone so integral to your leftist circles that we all should drop what we're doing to prove it was the fascists in the Amerikan state that did this?

And as for wingnut Sheehan, he's a liberal--probably a social-democrat at best. So he has nothing coming close to a class analysis or a critique of capitalism per se. So do you just "read between the lines" or swallow his conspiracies in total? And am I wrong or were you in the camp that denounced Chomsky in favor of wingnut/bugs like John Judge and Mae Brussell? If so, you are not even a radical. You're a "bug" who doesn't like insects. Birds of a feather fuck around together. Kinka dialectical, ain't it?

Alex
by Alex
Sunday Nov 17th, 2002 5:15 PM
I was just looking at a website about John Judge and saw that he's published many articles in Utne Reader, Spy, and Newsweek. Wow, such rags with reps for hard hitting investigative journalism. Why should any of us bother looking at Indy Media any more? Damn, I'll just pick up the Utne Reader, learn what Judge has to say and I'm fortunate that this month's feature is America's 30 best gurus. Damn, I'll use the mag to shop around for one and between my new guru spiritual leader and John Judge as my new political leader--de facto of course--I won't have to think for myself anymore. How convenient, how American in the great anti-intellectual tradition, which conspiracy bugs uphold so proudly. Down with those who thought they could create one, people like Emerson, Thoreau, Emma Goldman, Edmund Wilson, etc. Up with conspiracy bugs!!!

Alex
by Sheepdog
Sunday Nov 17th, 2002 5:21 PM
Wingnuts indeed.
These ‘wingnuts’ as you stamp them provide infinitely more
information than the corporate media in their gutless
toady sycophantic lockstep parroting of pentagon line.
Leftist is another stamp the reich uses to portray any
ideas that don’t or wont conform to the official spin we
have shoved down our throat 24/7 on every outlet that
has stolen our airwaves for the benefit of the PIGS and
ROACH DROPPINGS who own them body and ‘soul’ to promote
and reenforce the mindset of the coma induced public.
It sure is easy to put a stamp on ideas that don’t conform.
Since nobody seems to use the library now days to dig for
our historical reality, it makes it so much more convenient
to put a stupid stamp on individuals who actually challenge
‘accepted ‘ perceptions than to dig and cross check to inquire whether the messenger’s message rings true.
The standard tactic is to throw shit and jeer.
Let’s see what ‘information’ these detractors have instead
of sniping behind a rock like a small minded coward.
by gofer
Sunday Nov 17th, 2002 9:59 PM
If you're interested, he's going to be in town in a few days.

See:


http://www.sfsu.edu/~ihhs/fall02.htm

New Paradigm Politics and Alternative Futures - Daniel Sheehan, JD

Mr. Sheehan will explore this political moment and three worldviews shaping our lives and how we can begin to create a future that reflects our deepest values and hopes. He is the Adlai Stevenson Professor of World Politics, UC Santa Cruz, and former Chief legal counsel for The Christic Institute, the Pentagon Papers, Iran Contra, Karen Silkwood and other socially important legal cases.
by a
Sunday Nov 17th, 2002 11:52 PM
Alex: alleging Prozac use by Nessie and implying it's somehow bad is way outta line. If Emma Goldman had used Prozac would that mean that her writings and organizing would not be as valid? What's next, if I've got a prescription for an anti-epileptic are you gonna say it affects my mind and therefore my analysis can't be trusted?

If you listened to the talk, you'd know that he does touch on some quite radical concepts. Certainly he criticizes both liberal and conservative viewpoints on foreign policy. He talked a lot about how the composition of the ruling class has changed, what ideological justifications were used, and how any real change in the ruling class took 200-300 years. These are useful ideas.

Nessie: Bakunin, Kropotkin, Emma Goldman, and the Wobs failed. Even Durutti failed. But none of them failed completely, or we wouldn't be discussing them.

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