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Bump of Truth Action
by Truth Bumper (bump_of_truth [at] hotmail.com)
Wednesday Sep 11th, 2002 2:08 PM
Bumperstickers telling the truth about personal responsibility in the 9/11 tragedy are being affixed to bumpers everywhere.
ica1.jpg
The United States "nation" mourns in its compulsory fashion for the tragedies of 9/11. But what has this nation done to assess its own ethics and accountability, and its own role not only in creating the 9/11 tragedy but in creating many much larger tragedies?

Social conservatives like to arrogantly speak of personal responsibility. Yet it is clear that the United States citizenry has little oversight of the government and industry forces which are capitalizing on the 9/11 tragedy to strip their Constitutional and human rights, and to create an unspeakable war for oil and global power.

Those who attempted to raise the obvious questions (so-called "hard" questions) or attempted to stem the manipulated blood lust were persecuted, given death threats, silenced from access from the media. So in some senses, some of this "nation" are not guilty of this broad crime, including the 9/11 tragedy.

Yet the basis of the U.S. government holds as a cornerstone that "silence equals consent".

Therefore the bumper stickers bringing some truth to the big lie of U.S. life. Citizens who care will wear them proudly.

Attached, please find one PDF file for your own complementary use.

Yours, the Bump of Truth Collective.
§PDF of the "I CAUSED 9/11" BUMP.
by Truth Bumper (bump_of_truth [at] hotmail.com)
Wednesday Sep 11th, 2002 2:08 PM
created911.pdf_500_.jpg
Your complementary Bump of Truth, in PDF form.

Feel free to download this, print it out, and use it widely. Note that Indymedia did not consent to their URL being used on this sticker, but they do hold public news forums which can be noticed by the public.
Add Your Comments

Comments  (Hide Comments)

by Brian
Wednesday Sep 11th, 2002 5:22 PM
Some uncaring asshole put one of these bumper stickers on the back of my car today (9/11/02), without my knowledge. I had a relative that was a victim of 9/11 and found this bumper sticker to be in very BAD TASTE!!!! For those of you that wish to put this bumper sticker on your own car, you have that right. For those of you that wish to impose your beliefs on other people by defacing their property with tasteless crap like this, fuck off. You claim to offer this bumper sticker on this site to help promote awareness, but did you think that some unfeeling college shit-head would run around putting these on everyone's car, on a day where people would be mourning. Maybe if it had been another day, I wouldn't have taken it so personally, but I grieve every day. I didn't need to have some punk pull this shit on a day where I didn't need to be reminded!
by coughcoughkafka
Wednesday Sep 11th, 2002 8:36 PM
Dear "Fuck whoever did it"

I am sorry that this person's act causes you pain but look at the reality of the nightmare we are continuing to create.

As for defacing your deathmobile, gee did it ever occur to you that you are defacing our planet? That your toxic emissions every day harms our lungs? That you're knowingly abusing the limited life source resources of our planet? That you've indellibly marred the social fabric?

Take a step back from your anger and start asking yourself what you will do in the honor of those loved ones you have lost. Because yes, you did it, we all did it, and we must not remain complicit in this crime.

Don't bury your head in the sand. Oil is not worth it.

Oil means blood, violence, terror, rising seas, plastic crap, undrinkable water, cancer, sprawling car culture, death of farmland, on on on. STOP!



by Life Of
Wednesday Sep 11th, 2002 9:06 PM
And if you are Jewish Bryan, as we are all certain you must be, the sticker was particularly apt. As an American Jew YOU actually did cause the alleged 9/11 death of your relative by your blind support for Israel.
by Life Of
Wednesday Sep 11th, 2002 9:13 PM
I am a big Troll Geek who spends my whole day on SFIMC trying to claim the moon is made of green cheese and liberals are really nazis (cuz i'm not really sure what a liberal is, i can't read the dictionary) and leftists are really right wing. Why? Cuz the skinheads won't let me in their gang so I decided i would try to be a little troll geek here in the hopes that some day, one of them will let me lick his dirty boots.
by Patriot
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 2:12 AM
You know, while the idea is great to remind people of their responsibility, defacing others' property is a stupid act. Not only is it illegal, but think about the additional burden on the environment if the people use solvents to remove the stickers, or decide to repaint, etc. May be a small thing, but it's a thing.
by truthteller
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 2:27 AM
If liberals think they have the right to go around and deface something of someone else's then I have the right to bash in the head of a faggot, right? oh, but that's different, they'll cry. Why? Respecting my person and my personal space also includes my things. Next thing you know these absolute idiots posting in here, except for Brian, of course, will think they can just walk right into your house, raid the beer out of the fridge, or grope your daughter or son.

The day is coming, and quickly, when we are going to have to break the kneecaps of the liberal trash.
by the REAL Sicinius
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 4:03 AM
http://www.indybay.org/news/2002/09/147107_comment.php#147121
by Peter Zimbelman (pzimbelman [at] yahoo.com)
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 4:35 AM
The sad truth that many Americans have yet to realize is that today's media has become the enemy of our freedom, always on the side of our enemies, and never failing to support the indefensible lies from the left.

by this thing here
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 4:36 AM
What has this got to do with Smash's shit? This is actual in your face leftists promoting defacing private property, without their consent.

You people have made the homosexuals prima donnas about their rights and personal space, yet you sing another song here, when it comes to the usual traitorous slant. Do you people have a moral center? Or does it change direction with the wind?


Here's the specific question, since you're so fond of drifting off course. it's straightforward and to the point:

What right do you have to put that sticker on anyone's vehicle without permission?
by hack, hack, cough
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 4:40 AM
to poison the air I breath.
by me
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 4:47 AM
Then can we infer by your pathetic logic that it's okay for me to commit crimes against a homosexuals person since they are the ones spreading the deadly disease of AIDS?

What is your answer about the vehicles? Horse and buggy? Bikes? Walking? Or do you just same as masturbate via the keyboard when you say the most idiotic things? Have you thought things through beyond a middle school level?
by since you asked
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 5:06 AM
Build light rail, not highways, with the public's tax money. Stop subsidising the oil and automobile industries.
by Jeice
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 5:50 AM
Rail, huh?
There is no bloody way anyone can force the nation to go by train instead of a car. The ones that might are a small minority and everyone knows that.

A car may need oiil, fine, but so does a shitload of other things. We are not the Amish, there is no way people can learn to live without certain luxuries they have. Why put the guilt of death on their heads.

I don't think anyone has the right. If I see a sticker on my car (which is very unlikely) I'll just put another one over it.
By the way, stickers, are plastic.

by Jeice
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 5:50 AM
Rail, huh?
There is no bloody way anyone can force the nation to go by train instead of a car. The ones that might are a small minority and everyone knows that.

A car may need oiil, fine, but so does a shitload of other things. We are not the Amish, there is no way people can learn to live without certain luxuries they have. Why put the guilt of death on their heads.

I don't think anyone has the right. If I see a sticker on my car (which is very unlikely) I'll just put another one over it.
By the way, stickers, are plastic.

by Jeice
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 5:51 AM
whoops...sorry about that ;)
by mustng66
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 7:10 AM
If one of you leftist assholes wants to come over and 'try' to put a bumper sticker on my truck, try it, I dare you. I'll break every one of your fingers so you won't be to deface property for a long, long, time. Typical liberal trash.
by blah
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 8:31 AM
Agreed. You guys deface my property and get caught, you lose the use of a hand.

Good luck.
by Nick James
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 9:10 AM
I'll be on the corner of Van Ness and Castro if any of you punks want to try and put a bumper sticker on my Ford Excursion (6 mpg).

by hobo underdog
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 10:06 AM
HeY JeIcE,

You don't think we can force the nation to go by train? How funny....because exactly the opposite has happened. Car companies took over and shut down the best public transport system in the world to ensure a monopoly. Then died the interstate rail for trucking highways. Then covered the farmlands with sprawling car suburbs. We are a nation which has whittled away our internal strength. When the oil runs out we'll be in deep shit.

Which brings me to your next idea, that "there is no way people can learn to live without certain luxuries". That's the heart of the problem in the U.S. today. So few are willing to grow in a different way than selfish and self-undermining convenience. But when the crunch comes, most people if not all people will suffer so much more for abandoning the good sense to live sustainably.

You say stickers are plastic, fine, but the poster of this stuff (if you look at the second post, I don't know why there are two) says:

"Printing on paper and affixing with wheat paste is an
expedient, nonharmful, removable, and environmentally friendly option. Plus its cheap. "

So I think these stickers are not made of oil.



by hobo underdog
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 10:06 AM
HeY JeIcE,

You don't think we can force the nation to go by train? How funny....because exactly the opposite has happened. Car companies took over and shut down the best public transport system in the world to ensure a monopoly. Then died the interstate rail for trucking highways. Then covered the farmlands with sprawling car suburbs. We are a nation which has whittled away our internal strength. When the oil runs out we'll be in deep shit.

Which brings me to your next idea, that "there is no way people can learn to live without certain luxuries". That's the heart of the problem in the U.S. today. So few are willing to grow in a different way than selfish and self-undermining convenience. But when the crunch comes, most people if not all people will suffer so much more for abandoning the good sense to live sustainably.

You say stickers are plastic, fine, but the poster of this stuff (if you look at the second post, I don't know why there are two) says:

"Printing on paper and affixing with wheat paste is an
expedient, nonharmful, removable, and environmentally friendly option. Plus its cheap. "

So I think these stickers are not made of oil.



by that's awesome!
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 10:13 AM


yaaaahhh!!!

wait all day!!!! and while you stew in the cancer juice why dont you think about how UGLY you and everything around you is and try to remember ANY time in your life when you were Abel to be a NATURAL human and actually love life and people around you


By the way I don't thikn the people who did this are LIBERALS liberals suck raw shit and any one who is brave enough to go out and risk shit to put the truth out there and try to get you lazy spoiled know nothing americans off your ass is a HERO in my book

sit all day suck@!!!!
by that's awesome!
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 10:13 AM


yaaaahhh!!!

wait all day!!!! and while you stew in the cancer juice why dont you think about how UGLY you and everything around you is and try to remember ANY time in your life when you were Abel to be a NATURAL human and actually love life and people around you


By the way I don't thikn the people who did this are LIBERALS liberals suck raw shit and any one who is brave enough to go out and risk shit to put the truth out there and try to get you lazy spoiled know nothing americans off your ass is a HERO in my book

sit all day suck@!!!!
by spankie
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 10:35 AM
I'm gonna make like a thousand of these bumper stickers and put them all over the place! Then let indybay deal with the consequences! Now that's what I call activism!
by Glenn D
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 10:49 AM
I guess when these muslim assholes kill your family you'll invite them to a vegie dinner and try to understand them.
That's a bunch of crap we ought to kill them all Fuck them You fuck with any American you fuck with us all. The middle east ought to be crystalized by nuke on these sick fucks. Now go hug a tree and think what a bad country we have here
by you're the real "traitors"
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 11:22 AM
HEy

All you people (or maybe just one troll) giving threats for this horrible "crime" of "defacement" just remember that this country was founded on a tradition of civil disobedience and that any human has the fundamental right to self defense and to oppose oppression and unjust laws.

Putting a removable piece of paper with paste on a planet killer is so little response to what's being done to us its not even funny.

The bump of truth is like the Boston Tea Party if you think about it (but can you think?) Only not enough.

If it won't correct itself, the system should be shut down. Let people build something better. But with violent and intolerant car fundamentalists like those giving threats on this list out there, who don't believe in the sanctity of free speech and basic self defense against a corrupt system, obviously it won't happen anytime soon in a peaceful and humane manner.

Wake up and be people!
by Don't got no bumper
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 12:33 PM
There are many resources on how to construct an alternative way of life from here on out.

There are many philosophies (e.g., forms of Anarchism) which discuss real models to create a more equitable, egalitarian models of social interaction.

With such models in place we could consensually begin to develop ways of living which would not allow people to be killed for oil abroad so that people could be run down and dosed with poison gas at home.

One of many planning resources which describes an approach to creating cities not based upon automobiles, and an approach to phasing existing cities into same, is http://www.carfree.com

In the meanwhile only the most principled -- and the least privileged, who are forced to -- will continue to act with the intelligence to live without dependence on foreign oil. Or any oil for that matter.

By the way being fiscally poor does not mean being humanly poor. The poor slobs obediently lining up like cows to slaughter in their SUV's each day -- to go to their veal fattening pens at work -- I do not envy!
by R.B. Phillips
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 1:03 PM

Try it, fascist dickbite, and you will be spitting out
Chiclets 2500 milliseconds later.

by LMAO
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 1:15 PM
You people really are a riot.
by Charles Warlover
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 1:16 PM
Oh please let me find one of you idiots putting one of these bumper stickers on my car. Nothing would please me more. When I'm done hurting you, I will affix a bumper sticker to your forehead that reads "I am responsible for this ass whipping I took. I love all things stupid. Please feel free to give me another ass kicking, because chances are the last one didn't do the job."

This is not the drug war!!! Terrorists are legitimate targets!!!
by MR. Greenbeans
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 1:17 PM
The coughing is from all bullshit you spew, catching in your fuckhead throat, you know, where you normally park some donkey dick. Send fucks like you to SaudiLand where such assholisness as defacing someone elses property gets your whack-off hand whacked off.

Just a bunch of dumbass collectivists, wishing they were handling the levers of power instead of fondling the weenies of small.
by MR. Greenbeans
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 1:18 PM
The coughing is from all bullshit you spew, catching in your fuckhead throat, you know, where you normally park some donkey dick. Send fucks like you to SaudiLand where such assholisness as defacing someone elses property gets your whack-off hand whacked off.

Just a bunch of dumbass collectivists, wishing they were handling the levers of power instead of fondling the weenies of small.
by MR. Greenbeans
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 1:18 PM
The coughing is from all bullshit you spew, catching in your fuckhead throat, you know, where you normally park some donkey dick. Send fucks like you to SaudiLand where such assholisness as defacing someone elses property gets your whack-off hand whacked off.

Just a bunch of dumbass collectivists, wishing they were handling the levers of power instead of fondling the weenies of small.
by MR. Greenbeans
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 1:18 PM
The coughing is from all bullshit you spew, catching in your fuckhead throat, you know, where you normally park some donkey dick. Send fucks like you to SaudiLand where such assholisness as defacing someone elses property gets your whack-off hand whacked off.

Just a bunch of dumbass collectivists, wishing they were handling the levers of power instead of fondling the weenies of small.
by Revenge is sweet.
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 1:19 PM
I hope that whomever is advocating this foolish notion receives a just punishment for their action. Being beaten to death wouldn't be too harsh - the slower the better.
by Nephilium
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 1:21 PM
I love seeing intelligent debate, that's what's so great about this country. Now what the hell is the point of defacing someone's car? To try to debate... no. It's an attempt to shock and upset. It's an attempt to make yourself feel important by doing not a damned thing. If you feel that this country is such an evil creation, then move elsewhere. If you feel that the world is a zero-sum game, then learn economics. If you feel that by me having more, I'm taking away from someone else, and you don't feel the world is a zero-sum game, then you're ignorant. Read a book, you're making yourself look stupid.
by Andrew T. (furious_a [at] yahoo.com)
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 1:26 PM
***MESSAGE TO THOSE WHOSE CARS ARE VANDALIZED***

Directions to Indymedia's offices are copied below.

2914 16th Street
San Francisco, CA
(415)864-1006
http://www.indybay.org/process/spaces/map.php

Accessible by Daly City BART, Muni 22, 33, and 14.

Send them the repair bill, or bring along some husky with Louisville Sluggers...your choice.
by Andrew T. (furious_a [at] yahoo.com)
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 1:28 PM
***MESSAGE TO THOSE WHOSE CARS ARE VANDALIZED***

Directions to Indymedia's offices are copied below.

2914 16th Street
San Francisco, CA
(415)864-1006
http://www.indybay.org/process/spaces/map.php

Accessible by Daly City BART, Muni 22, 33, and 14.

Send them the repair bill, or bring along some husky with Louisville Sluggers...your choice.
by Planetkiller Driver
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 1:29 PM
It has always seemed to me that you guys bemoan anything that relates to others having power, privilege, money or just about anything more than you. What it looks like to me is that you are too lazy to work for these things yourself or you were too spoiled as a child to appreciate obtaining such things through hard work. Get a job you lazy morons. Become part of the "military-industrial-prison" complex, it's fun. Otherwise, leave the rest of us alone, we have work to do securing your right to spew such vomitous drivel in a modern, orderly, free society. Better yet, take your ass to Baghdad or Beiiing(don't bother buying the round trip ticket, you won't need it).

In short, quick making excuses and causes for being weak humans. Get over it and heal thyself.
by Joe Tithill-Smythe
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 1:36 PM
Your ignorance is profound. Your hatred puerile. Your effect on the world: nil.
by Planetkiller Driver
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 1:38 PM
Hey! Are those stickers made from recycled materials?
by IHaveABrain
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 1:45 PM
I'm surprised you people even have intellectual ability to breath in and out without writing instructions on your hands.
You show contempt for life, disrespect for a nations grief, and utter intellectual incompetence.
Fools.

I hope someone catches you putting a bumber sticker on a car and I hope you get exactly what you deserve and desperately need - a solid beating.
by Margaret
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 2:02 PM
<<You say stickers are plastic, fine, but the poster of this stuff (if you look at the second post, I don't know why there are two) says:

"Printing on paper and affixing with wheat paste is an
expedient, nonharmful, removable, and environmentally friendly option. Plus its cheap. "

So I think these stickers are not made of oil. >>

Unless you personally pounded the paper out of papyrus and grew the wheat in your backyard, those materials had to come from somewhere, and they were probably *gasp* transported in a big ol' polluting truck. Also, if you print it out by computer (rather than by hand with handmade ink), you will be using plastics (I've never yet encountered a computer or printer made out of wood), which are petroleum based. And again, those computers had to come from somewhere and most likely rode in a truck at some point. Thus, those who post these stickers are not only guilty of property damage (and truly juvenile behavior), but of CAUSING 9/11!!!! May God have mercy on your souls.

by Joe Shlabotnik
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 2:14 PM

Computers are made of plastic.

Plastic is made of oil.

Everyone renounce your resource-depleting computers!

by Phil
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 2:32 PM
I see a lot of crying from some weak kneed tree huggers who are SO WORRIED about the Environment. Typical LiberaNazi Fascist One Worlder Anarchist DemocRat Voting, Clinton Lovin', Gore Worshipping Dumbasses. Ye speak so adamantly abot automobiles being planet killers. How may I ask doth transpots oneself around the planet? If you are so adamant, then you should be riding the two wheeled pedal powered flesh transporter. Bet you have one like Peewee Herman, Tassles, Basket and bell! Bet you hide in Movie Theaters like Peewee Herman also. Freedom comes with Individual Choice, Property Rights are also guaranteed by the Constitution. If you can't hang with this, then move to China, Cuba, Iraq, Iran, or North Korea where they will issue you a bicycle, a Job, and a place to live. Enjoy LOSER!
by Johnson
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 2:33 PM
Bryan,

You jews are the worst. We hate you. I hope your relative dead in pain. I just wish we could take control of the world media, the banks, and the US from you jews.
by Joe Shlabotnik
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 2:40 PM

Hey whoever wrote this:

> Oil means blood, violence, terror, rising seas, plastic
> crap, undrinkable water, cancer, sprawling car culture,
> death of farmland, on on on. STOP!

Let me respond point by point:

> Oil means blood

Which existed a long time before man discovered oil

> violence

Ditto

> terror

Ditto

> Rising seas

Which have been rising and falling for eons before man got here

> Plastic crap

Like computers?

> Undrinkable water

Tell you what - go back in time and take a swig of good ol' pre-oil-age 18th century water and report back to us.

> Cancer

Also a cure for cancer (and the cholea you will have likely gotten from your time-traveling experience)

> Sprawling car culture

Which suits most of us just fine

> Death of farmland

And we have more food now than ever before in all of human history.

> on on on. STOP!

Yes, please - stop, and THINK, instead of spouting empty cliches. Please.

by Joe Shlabotnik
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 2:46 PM

Hey whoever wrote this:

> Oil means blood, violence, terror, rising seas, plastic
> crap, undrinkable water, cancer, sprawling car culture,
> death of farmland, on on on. STOP!

Let me respond point by point:

> Oil means blood

Which existed a long time before man discovered oil

> violence

Ditto

> terror

Ditto

> Rising seas

Which have been rising and falling for eons before man got here

> Plastic crap

Like computers?

> Undrinkable water

Tell you what - go back in time and take a swig of good ol' pre-oil-age 18th century water and report back to us.

> Cancer

Also a cure for cancer (and the cholea you will have likely gotten from your time-traveling experience)

> Sprawling car culture

Which suits most of us just fine

> Death of farmland

And we have more food now than ever before in all of human history.

> on on on. STOP!

Yes, please - stop, and THINK, instead of spouting empty cliches. Please.

by I am Canadian
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 2:49 PM
Funny I should see this now. I just got home from work. Out in the parking lot, what do I see? Someone squatting by the back end of my Celica. Figuring he was trying to break into the car or just vandalize it, I went over there to pimpslap the little bastard.

Grabbed him by the neck, chucked him to the ground and asked him what the fuck he was doing. I look over - see the "I caused 9/11" sticker - look back, and he's standing and taking a swing at me.

I guess you have to be pretty stupid to endorse the use of these stickers anyhow - but taking a swing at a 6'1", 185lb guy you don't even know, after he catches you trying to deface his car - that's pretty fucking stupid.

Naturally, I beat the shit out of him and called campus PD (I work at a university). He took the first swing - it was self-defense. They cheerfully carted him away. Hopefully he'll meet up with a big burly man named Bubba in the holding cell.

Not even Canadians are immune from this shit. I guess dickheadedness is a trait felt worldwide.
by RWW
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 2:49 PM
"Fuck whoever did it
by Brian
Some uncaring asshole put one of these bumper stickers on the back of my car today (9/11/02), without my knowledge. I had a relative that was a victim of 9/11 and found this bumper sticker to be in very BAD TASTE!!!!"


"Bryan, Your support for Israel killed your relative
by Life Of
And if you are Jewish Bryan, as we are all certain you must be, the sticker was particularly apt. As an American Jew YOU actually did cause the alleged 9/11 death of your relative by your blind support for Israel."


You people are just charming!

by now wayjose
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 2:49 PM
Dear coughcoughkafka

"As for defacing your deathmobile, gee did it ever occur to you that you are defacing our planet? That your toxic emissions every day harms our lungs? That you're knowingly abusing the limited life source resources of our planet? That you've indellibly marred the social fabric? "


JUST BY USING YOUR COMPUTER YOU MY FRIEND ARE ALSO DEFACING THE PLANET. HOW MUCH ELECTRICTY DO ALL THE COMPUTERS IN THE US ALONE USE? HOW MANY TOXIC CMOS BATTERIES ARE JUST THROWN IN THE CITY LANDFILL? YOU ARE JUST AS GUILTY AS THE SUV OWNER.
by now wayjose
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 2:51 PM
Dear coughcoughkafka

"As for defacing your deathmobile, gee did it ever occur to you that you are defacing our planet? That your toxic emissions every day harms our lungs? That you're knowingly abusing the limited life source resources of our planet? That you've indellibly marred the social fabric? "


JUST BY USING YOUR COMPUTER YOU MY FRIEND ARE ALSO DEFACING THE PLANET. HOW MUCH ELECTRICTY DO ALL THE COMPUTERS IN THE US ALONE USE? HOW MANY TOXIC CMOS BATTERIES ARE JUST THROWN IN THE CITY LANDFILL? YOU ARE JUST AS GUILTY AS THE SUV OWNER.
by now wayjose
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 2:52 PM
Dear coughcoughkafka

"As for defacing your deathmobile, gee did it ever occur to you that you are defacing our planet? That your toxic emissions every day harms our lungs? That you're knowingly abusing the limited life source resources of our planet? That you've indellibly marred the social fabric? "


JUST BY USING YOUR COMPUTER YOU MY FRIEND ARE ALSO DEFACING THE PLANET. HOW MUCH ELECTRICTY DO ALL THE COMPUTERS IN THE US ALONE USE? HOW MANY TOXIC CMOS BATTERIES ARE JUST THROWN IN THE CITY LANDFILL? YOU ARE JUST AS GUILTY AS THE SUV OWNER.
by bob
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 2:52 PM
I agree completely. We are complicit in 911. Why? Because we did not turn IRaq into a parking lot in 1991. We did not destroy Iran in 1979. We have for the last 25 years gutted first our intelligence agencies at the behest of the Carter administration and then our military at the hands of that Reprobate Clinton. We should give Islamo-Fascists a simple ultimatum. IFANY AMERICAN INTEREST IS HARMED BY MUSLIM FANATICS, WE WILL GIVE YOU 12 HOURS TO LEAVE MECCA AND THEN IT IS A STEAMING PILE OF RADIOACTIVE WASTE. Arabs understand only power. They mistake kindness and tolerance for weakness. OLB said as much after Clinton retreated from Mogadishu. They are the human equivilant of Jackals. By the way, POP Quiz. On whose behalf has America used its military forces during the last 12 years. ANSWER. Muslims in Kuwait in 1991, Muslims in Mogadishu in 1993, Muslims in Kosovo in 1997, and when we kill Saddam it will be for Muslims in Iraq in 2002. Spare me the America hates the Arab world crap. We have expended treasure and blood for these stupid bastards for years, and if it was not for American and BRitish technology all the oil they have would still be in the ground while the beat women and screwed little boys in their tents.
by vastrightwingconspiracy
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 2:53 PM
Had to check to make sure I hadn't logged onto "The Onion" by mistake.

Yes, Virginia, apparently everything we've heard about leftists being simple-minded dullards is indeed correct.

A show of hands please: How many of you currently are running your computers by wind and/or solar power?

Well, this HAS been fun, but I must run as I have a life. Cheers.
by now wayjose
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 2:53 PM
Dear coughcoughkafka

"As for defacing your deathmobile, gee did it ever occur to you that you are defacing our planet? That your toxic emissions every day harms our lungs? That you're knowingly abusing the limited life source resources of our planet? That you've indellibly marred the social fabric? "


JUST BY USING YOUR COMPUTER YOU MY FRIEND ARE ALSO DEFACING THE PLANET. HOW MUCH ELECTRICTY DO ALL THE COMPUTERS IN THE US ALONE USE? HOW MANY TOXIC CMOS BATTERIES ARE JUST THROWN IN THE CITY LANDFILL? YOU ARE JUST AS GUILTY AS THE SUV OWNER.
by vastrightwingconspiracy
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 2:59 PM
Had to check to make sure I hadn't logged onto "The Onion" by mistake.

Yes, Virginia, apparently everything we've heard about leftists being simple-minded dullards is indeed correct.

A show of hands please: How many of you currently are running your computers by wind and/or solar power?

Well, this HAS been fun, but I must run as I have a life. Cheers.
by trees
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 3:11 PM
over BUMPER stickers . . . no wonder they're so afraid of Saddam - sadly, they aren't smart enough to realize that the real enemy is ocuppying our capital at this moment.

But then these threatening guys on here . . .all upset about their vehicles and a bit of paper with some paste and a message . . . who can blame them when Daddy beat the s**t out of them when they were little? They're just trying to spread daddy around to take some of their own pain away. They're scared - scared of daddy, scared of big bad Hussein, scared of big bad Arafat, scared sh**less.

Guys, turn aound because the real villian is standing right behind you and directing you to think as he says, like Daddy, trying to divert you from the real insanity he's putting on you every day. And he's doing it in the most demeaning way - treating you like a child watching Disney on Sunday night.

For your own sakes, wake up.

by U.S. Life Expectancy Hits New High
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 3:19 PM

You fucking assholes lie and try to scare. Face facts, dip shits.

As an aside, lets kill saddam and his rag wearing allies and make the would a better place.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8985-2002Sep12.html

By Laura Meckler
Associated Press Writer
Thursday, September 12, 2002; 3:58 PM

WASHINGTON –– Death is on the decline for babies, adults and older people alike, with AIDS, homicide, cancer and heart disease all claiming fewer lives, the government reports in its annual look at American health.
by loveallleftists
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 3:45 PM
The US is like a vampire, sucking life from eveyone else - for free or nothing - to enrich itself while it's victims die. And then it claims to have the highest life expectancy, like we should give it a prize . . .?

I'm sorry to hear that these right wingers are so mystified as to not understand why the US is where it is - by killing everyone else around the world, the US gains its place in a high life expectancy. Did those figures include terrorist attack victims by any chance? If so, the expectancy but take a dive in the near future when the world has to try to reign in the US's out of control monarchy.
by schu
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 4:44 PM
Hey, who was it? Where were you that they were putting on bumper stickers... by SF State?
by GEORGE MICHAEL
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 4:51 PM
Van Ness and Castro do not intersect.
>
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Dipshit.
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>Meet me at Mission and 6th for an asswhupin' promptly reserved for a bridge-and-tunnel shitnut.
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Fuck all you SUV drivin' ass flappers. I hope you all meet Jane Mansfield in hell.
>
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George "I'll be your daddy" Michael
by scott
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 5:03 PM
You guys are scared. Not physically scared, but scared that you are becoming increasingly irrelevant. That has got to hurt. Not only being a non-entity but being the equals of skinheads.

Enjoy the world of nothingness.
by Leni
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 5:08 PM
You caught this guy in the middle of a college parking lot at noon? god, what a moron - that's really blatant.

I think the stupidest SUV concept is the Jeep Cherokee. why name your car after a vanquished tribe that the US death marched almost two thousand miles to Oklahoma. President andrew Jackson, depicted on some of your money, had a bridle made out of Cherokee skin. He used these touches as a way to get elected. He was a Democrat - screw these liberals! they're as good as Hitler
by Ray Evans (ray_vrca [at] swbell.net)
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 5:09 PM
For those who suck slime, a life in exteme leftwing hell. The word is out.
by grey
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 5:14 PM
hey, is it that Mission Yuppie Eradication Project guy? what's he up to? He used to target suvs. I was in the mission a couple days ago, and indeed, there were no more yuppies left. so I guess he succeeded, and he's moved on to other areas?
by lily-livered-right
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 5:36 PM
are really going wild on here . . . all worked up over a bit of paper . . . threatening and puffing themselves up, just like defenseless animals that are using their last resortm because they're terrified . . .

Calm down and look who's taking your tax money and 'dissapearing it' out of the pentagon budget - 3.3 billion this year. Can't blame Hussein for that. Can't blame Osama.
by Lil' Buddy
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 5:40 PM
Not to mention these computers run on electricity generated most likely by filthy fossil fuel burning power plants!!!!!!!! Hypocrites!
by keelly
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 5:47 PM
But the fact is, the left is working like crazy to get those plants shut down and get alternative fuels up and running - don't sound too hypocritical to me.

The left is where its at.
by for amusement purposes only
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 5:49 PM
1. Crumble up a newspaper.

2. Put on the ground underneath the car's gas tank.

3. Set fire to it with a match.

4. Get out of the way.
by DJ
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 6:08 PM
Kafka......how dare you log onto the internet, thereby using electricity from a big, polluting power plant which no doubt (in your world) pollutes the rivers and lakes of this country. Your hatred is so amazing that I almost have to think this is all tongue-in-cheek, that no one could actually believe the way you do. You, my friend, are scary.
by DJ
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 6:10 PM
Kafka......how dare you log onto the internet, thereby using electricity from a big, polluting power plant which no doubt (in your world) pollutes the rivers and lakes of this country. Your hatred and, idiocy is so amazing that I almost have to think this is all tongue-in-cheek, that no one could actually believe the way you do. You, my friend, are scary.
by DJ
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 6:10 PM
Kafka......how dare you log onto the internet, thereby using electricity from a big, polluting power plant which no doubt (in your world) pollutes the rivers and lakes of this country. Your hatred and, idiocy is so amazing that I almost have to think this is all tongue-in-cheek, that no one could actually believe the way you do. You, my friend, are scary.
by Lars Adler
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 6:12 PM
Retard.

Oil does not mean "blood, violence, terror, rising seas, plastic crap, undrinkable water, cancer, sprawling car culture, death of farmland, on on on..." With the exception of plastic crap (or plastic anything), every single one of the above existed in abundance well before oil became the fuel of choice. Yes even the sprawling car cuture. Europeans and Americans were covering the world faster than ever with trains and oceanliners well back in the 1800's -- powered by the evil deforesting steam.

Why don't you stop blaming oil and get to the truth of it? You think the world would be better off if humans were all living in the stone age and dying at 25 like we used to.
by HadEnough
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 6:12 PM
You Luddite crap-headed idiot. I suppose we'd all be better off choking on coal dust and smelling horse-shit in the streets as they did a hundred years ago. Quit blaming the oil companies, quit blaming automobile and SUV drivers, and QUIT BLAMING AMERICA for everything you find unpleasant about life. And if you'd care to put one of your sanctimonious little stickers on my car, I'll be happy to give you my address, and I'll be in the driveway waiting for your arrogant little ass when you get here. Come on, you self-absorbed jackasses... I'm waiting...
by HadEnough
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 6:14 PM
You Luddite crap-headed idiot. I suppose we'd all be better off choking on coal dust and smelling horse-shit in the streets as they did a hundred years ago. Quit blaming the oil companies, quit blaming automobile and SUV drivers, and QUIT BLAMING AMERICA for everything you find unpleasant about life. And if you'd care to put one of your sanctimonious little stickers on my car, I'll be happy to give you my address, and I'll be in the driveway waiting for your arrogant little ass when you get here. Come on, you self-absorbed jackasses... I'm waiting...
by DJ
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 6:14 PM
Kafka I hope you used a solar-powered computer to post your inane comments to Brian. You actually called a car a "deathmobile"? Geez, how much longer until daddy's trust fund runs out and you have to move out into the real world?
by DJ
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 6:14 PM
Kafka I hope you used a solar-powered computer to post your inane comments to Brian. You actually called a car a "deathmobile"? Geez, how much longer until daddy's trust fund runs out and you have to move out into the real world?
by Matthew Upton
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 6:15 PM
Say, could you guys make up a nifty "SUVs are destroying the environment" bumper sticker? I have been wanting one to place on my Ford Explorer.

That aside, the total economic ignorance spouted by evirofascists is astoundig. We here in America make full efficient usage of our own resources, and import more to proccess and manufacture into useful products to be resold world-wide. We are not keeping down 3rd world nations that lack indoor plumbing and enough food to feed it's citizens, au contraire. We send aid to these nations (we do have the worlds largest foreign aid budget, and it's a helluva lot more than the $14b we send to Israel), prevent ethnic cleansings, and prevent represive communist regimes when we can (though we may support the lesser of two evils, it is still the lesser).
Really, the cure for the 3rd world is to abandon the socialist-to-totalitarian regimes that have dominated Africa and South East Asia regimes since before Hilter or Stalin drew breath. Our first European settlers in America first tried the socialist "Utopia" and nearly starved to death after two years. Then we got it through our thick heads that people are more likely to work if they can see the fruits of their labor and feed their family. This leads to the point of why socialist states leads to dictatorships: when people depend upon the government for food, shelter, and clothing, they will support whomever promises them the most. "Screw democracy and a constitution, were hungry and this guy promised us food!"

And finally, for our "back to nature crowd", we here in the US "spew toxins in the air", yet have one of the highest life expectancies on the planet. We "polute our waters", yet can drink it without fear of cholera, dysentary, or frigging leprosy. We eat genetically altered food, yet will live longer than the african children whos nation REFUSES it. Yes I don't like importing Sauidi oil, but nearly every other industrialized nation on earth imports oil from the Middle East. We live in a world with instantanious communications, miraculous medical breakthroughs, ingenious farming techniques that could feed the world, and we sent a man to the MOON!


God help us, and many want to destroy this?
by DJ
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 6:15 PM
Kafka I hope you used a solar-powered computer to post your inane comments to Brian. You actually called a car a "deathmobile"? Geez, how much longer until daddy's trust fund runs out and you have to move out into the real world?
by talk's cheap, suckah
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 6:16 PM
Put up or shut up.
by one of the faggots who kicked the SFPD's butt
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 6:23 PM
That's how it was done on White Night.

Nearl two dozen police cars were torched. When the Activists went after the cars, cheers of approval came from the crowd.

http://www.backdoor.com/CASTRO/milk/whitenight.html
by JoeC
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 6:23 PM
This is to coughcoughkafka. Do you live in a grass hut? Do you make your own cloths, and gather your own meat? Probably not, if you use any man made product, you use oil. What a hypocrite, I would love to meet just one of you people who actually practice what you preach. You bitch and moan, about how the world is going to end, then get in your car, usually an old crappy one that runs like shit, and pollutes the earth, with smoke, and leaks oil that gets in our water ways.
You know what? Someday, in the not too distant future the earth will run out of oil, and guess what, mankind will adapt and survive. Wonder what you people will bitch about then?
by Larry Lou
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 6:40 PM
You people are out of your fucking minds!
by Larry Lou
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 6:41 PM
You people are out of your fucking minds!
by Nevets Craisad
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 6:53 PM
While I don't find the bumper sticker entertaining, I do very much so find your comments entertaining. Let me weigh the two....ok comedy wins. In times like this people need comedy. The rest of you, STFU.

NC
by fuckbush
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 7:01 PM
they're really just jumping out of their socks right now . . I think there's something upsetting them . . . maybe the stock market dive after bushladens speech again? maybe they lost their job under the watchful eye of their fuhrer? Their meglomanic leader?

Just a little paper and they're going crazy! Amazing how little it takes to upset them right now, when everything is going wrong for them . . .

Excellent castro story!! I hadn't known about all that!! Thank you.
by AL Bee
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 7:23 PM
Son, if you want to affuix a sticker to someones car, be a gentleman and ask. This gives him a chance to kick your fucking ass up around your shoulders.
by David M Garcia
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 7:43 PM
I am pleased to see that the spirit of facist propoganda and anti-semitism is alive and well on your site. I would presume that after a fun evening of vadalizing other people's cars you also spend some time smashing the windows of jewish shop keepers, beat up a few gays and wander on down to the local library for a festive book burning. Be certain that all of the rest of us (all of the people whom you have decided to hate) understand the exact meaning of your philosophy. Keep up the good work and remember to keep those brown shirts clean.
by Thomas Jefferson
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 7:51 PM
I suggest you indymedia freaks print up a new batch of bumper stickers saying the following:
"Twisted people believe twisted truths"
Then stick those bumperstickers straight up your ass.

by Thomas Jefferson
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 7:52 PM
I suggest you indymedia freaks print up a new batch of bumper stickers saying the following:
"Twisted people believe twisted truths"
Then stick those bumperstickers straight up your ass.

by Thomas Jefferson
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 7:53 PM
I suggest you indymedia freaks print up a new batch of bumper stickers saying the following:
"Twisted people believe twisted truths"
Then stick those bumperstickers straight up your ass.

by Thomas Jefferson
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 7:53 PM
I suggest you indymedia freaks print up a new batch of bumper stickers saying the following:
"Twisted people believe twisted truths"
Then stick those bumperstickers straight up your ass.

by ass kicker
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 8:09 PM
I work hard for what I have in life, I take nothing I dont deserve. and I expect to be respected.

I dont care what your political beliefs are as long as it stays in the realm of free speech. once you do anything to infringe on me personally I am going to hurt you.

let me catch you puting one of these stickers on my truck and it will be very ugly. if you regain consciousness you will find every other tooth knocked out of your head so you look like a jackolantern.

I will take your thumbs with my cigar guilotine. and I will roll you over and put out my cigar in the crack of your ass.

you better plan on a life as an organ grinders monkey because without thumbs thats all you'll be good for.
by Conservative
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 8:54 PM


September 12, 2002

Chuck Drury, President
Drury Inns Incorporated

Dear Chuck:

After checking in at the Drury Inn, I found an "environmental" card on the bed,
which offered me the option as your hotel guest to have my bed linens changed every
three days rather than every day.

My reaction to such foolishness is that, as a hotel guest, it is unappealing to even contemplate occupying one of your rooms immediately following an unwashed environmentalist, but the thought of sleeping on a bed (even with fresh linens) that has been previously occupied by such a person cavorting on three day old dirty linens makes one gag in disgust.

Your policy not only exacerbates the room-hygiene concerns arising from following such guests, but may raise public health issues as well.

If the Drury Inn wants to help its environmentalist friends save Mother Earth, you might suggest ways that will not adversely affect subsequent guests, such as their not using TV, lights, and especially air conditioning. Further, you could suggest water saving measures consistent with the environmentalist lifestyle such as not showering or batheing, and a single flush per day.

Perhaps the optimum solution for all would be for you to provide tent sites in your parking lot.

I look forward to your response.

Sincerely yours,




by Frederick Galdi
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 9:39 PM
Re: Comments by CoughcoughKafka...

To much smoke from deathmobile? Hold your breath
(indefinately)
by Patriot
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 10:31 PM
I think I saw you today by the Transbay bus station shaking a cup It is fine for you to think that you caused 9/11 but I did not cause 9/11. Actually to think that you caused anything to happen is gross arrogance.

If you feel so bad about what you have done, leave the country before you cause some other terrorist to attack. It is actually good to know that you have taken responsibility - it is probably the first thing in your sorry life you've admitted to.

BTW I removed several of your flyers denouncing the war in Iraq - don't want you to be responsible for that also.
by Used to be left-wing (ohhbenny [at] aol.com)
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 11:09 PM
Is there something wrong with the drinking water on the west coast that turns some people into complete fruits? You dont hear any New Yorkers placing the blame for 9/11 on themselves. It's because it isnt our fault. As for the oil bullshit...there are oil companies that dont rely on middle-eastern oil.

I dare one of you skinny little veggie-fags to come to manhattan and try putting these stickers around. New Yorkers dont take any shit, and if 9/11 did one thing for our city, it was to unify all of us. Now it doesnt matter what race you are...black, white, hispanic, asian, even middle eastern...We all gained a deep love and respect for our city, and if you came here and started spouting your disrespectful "9/11-anti-capatalism" bullshit, youd quickly be beaten to death my a multi-ethnic mob of people proud to call themselves "New Yorkers".

As we say here in the Big Apple, "Don't *fuck* with us, or we'll break your skull"
by duhhhhh
Thursday Sep 12th, 2002 11:52 PM
patriot.jpg
yuk yuk yuk

I'm a US of A patriot . . . duhhh
by idiot NYer
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 12:01 AM
"woud quickly be beaten to death my a multi-ethnic mob of people proud to call themselves "New Yorkers"

That's right - we're killers and that's what america is all about - murdering anyone thinks different than us!

We love to kill and smash everyone who tries to say anything we don't agree with! Kill all!

Especially in New York - and when we're of all different ethnicities that makes it even more RIGHT to kill all people who aren't exact mirror images of us! So what if we're complete idiots ready to become robots for our thief in chief! We kill for firefighters and police!! We kill all for our men in blue! Kill! Other lives don't matter, only ours!
by anti-authoritarian
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 12:01 AM
ok, look. just because some jackass put this sticker on some random SUVs that has "To discuss this issue visit the 'Bump of Truth' thread, on http://www.indybay.org/ (an independent news forum)", jumping to the conclusion that someone involved in organizing with the sf indymedia collective is a bit far. questions:

1. why the fuck would someone from sf-imc write such a amatuer sentence on the end to draw people to this site? any and all literature/promotional material i've seen is written nothing like this at all.

2. "uphold the united states constitution" ??? ummm, right. i'm sure this is language sf indymedia folks would use.

please, whoever put this sticker up has no clue as to what real movement-building is about. stickers and other forms of propaganda, sure, but not on some random SUV (no matter how much you may dislike the things), because it has almost zero strategic value.
by pissed off
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 12:10 AM
Many pro-Palestinians have had their bumperstickers torn off their cars by Zionazis. Jews always try to claim they are the only ones who experience such "hate-crimes". In fact, over near the Oakland Airport, I noticed that two "Mahmood for Congress Time for a Change" campaign signs were hacked to little pieces one day and lying on the ground in shards. Gee.... I wonder who did that? I'm a 4th generation American Christian by the way.
Just wanted to report what I saw. And I didn't like it one bit.
by exposing another righty victim of propaganda
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 5:42 AM

> I agree completely. We are complicit in 911. Why? Because we did not turn IRaq into a parking lot in 1991.

Hey did you notice that 1991 is just 911 with a 1 on it?

> We did not destroy Iran in 1979. We have for the last 25 years gutted first our intelligence agencies at the behest of the Carter administration and then our military at the hands of that Reprobate Clinton.

Oh yeah it's all the Democrats' fault, not those holy Republicans who stand for only the best values. Do you forget that Reagan was in bed with the Khomeini?

> We should give Islamo-Fascists a simple ultimatum. IFANY AMERICAN INTEREST IS HARMED BY MUSLIM FANATICS, WE WILL GIVE YOU 12 HOURS TO LEAVE MECCA AND THEN IT IS A STEAMING PILE OF RADIOACTIVE WASTE.

Gee but so far we have no proof of who did it other than the clear and convincing evidence that there was U.S. government complicity (and a wide array of motives, which were very quickly CAPITALIZED on)

http://www.bushdidit.org/

> Arabs understand only power. They mistake kindness and tolerance for weakness.

Racist. Racism is ignorance. Racism is hate speech.

> By the way, POP Quiz. On whose behalf has America used its military forces during the last 12 years. ANSWER. Muslims in Kuwait in 1991, Muslims in Mogadishu in 1993, Muslims in Kosovo in 1997, and when we kill Saddam it will be for Muslims in Iraq in 2002.

These were all about oil resources. The U.S. doesn't care what dictatorship, what human rights abuser, what harm must be done to secure oil interests.

> if it was not for American and BRitish technology all the oil they have would still be in the ground while the beat women and screwed little boys in their tents.

Gee are you talking about the Catholic church here?

No, surely this is the Boy Scouts?

by Ulrike
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 6:34 AM
No, everyone.
Don't you listen to NPR? This is part of the campaign of the 'Click & Clack' Cartalk radio show. They are passing out bumper stickers as part of their anti-SUV campaign. It turns out that they just like to talk about cars, but they ride bicycles and public transportation and one of them has an old car and they totally disapprove of SUVs for lacking style, and their encourage their listeners to 'take action' and get the bumper stickers and stick them around. They have a better sense of humor than a lot of you dorks. see:
http://cartalk.cars.com/
and
http://cartalk.cars.com/info/suv/
by Black Watch
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 6:36 AM
Plain & Simple.....If I see anyone holding, placing or otherwise trying to promote that sticker, I can assure you, you will see the bad side of my American ass.

Plain & Simple...gather up all your Utopian buddies and find some small corner of the world where you can worship the sun, destroy tv's, ride bikes on dirt roads,eat leaves, grow pot, repel showers,grow beards,wear non leather birkenstocks,date girls with huge bushes,never see sports, own 50 dogs and 50 cats, swear of vaccines, hate Jews, despise Christians, flout GOD, loath SUV's,welcome aliens with ESP,chant "meat is murder", use nothing that is petroluem based(good luck),resurrect the DoDo bird,cure everything homeopathically,live in adobe houses,not work, be disgusted with industry,never vote,have no money(just beads or shells),and play guitar. As an American you can accomplish this. As another American I say please go.
by Clear Moral Statement
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 6:58 AM
To all of you assholes who think that defacing somebody's private property is morally acceptable in the name of defending a greater good, let me make two points:

1. Hacking this website to shut it down would both right and just if I viewed the world through your selective moral prism as your website is a danger to my values and beliefs; and,

2. Your whole website is run by the same non-renewable power sources you condemn, unless of course, the server is powered by wind or sun. Not too likely, is it?

Let me also leave you with one question. Why is it that only the conservatives are willing to tolerate or debate a dissenting point of view?
by Scott Chapman
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 7:29 AM
In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by:
a. Olga Corbett
b. Sitting Bull
c. Arnold Schwarzenegger
d. Muslim males mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

In 1979, the U.S. embassy in Iran was taken over by:
a. Lost Norwegians
b. Elvis
c. A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
d. Muslim males (mostly) between the ages of 17 and 40

During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by:
a. John Dillinger
b. The King of Sweden
c. The Boy Scouts
d. Muslim males (mostly) between the ages of 17 and 40

In 1983, the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:
a. A pizza delivery boy
b. Pee Wee Herman
c. Geraldo Rivera making up for a slow news day
d. Muslim males (mostly) between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old
American passenger was murdered in his wheelchair and thrown overboard
by:
a. The Smurfs
b. Davy Jones
c. The Little Mermaid
d. Muslim males (mostly) between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a U.S. Navy diver was
murdered (and his body tossed to the tarmac) by:
a. Captain Kid
b. Charles Lindberg
c. Mother Teresa
d. Muslim males (mostly) between the ages of 17 and 40

In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was blown up in flight via a bomb planted by:
a. Scooby Doo
b. The Tooth Fairy
c. Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid who had a few sticks of
dynamite left over from the train job
d. Muslim males (mostly) between the ages of 17 and 40

In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed by:
a. Richard Simmons
b. Grandma Moses
c. Michael Jordan
d. Muslim males (mostly) between the ages of 17 and 40

In 1996, nineteen American servicemen died when Khobar Towers was bombed
by:
a. Secret Service agents
b. American kids
c. American grandmothers
d. Muslim males (mostly) between the ages of 17 and 40

In 1998, the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:
a. Mr. Rogers
b. Hillary, to distract attention from Wild Bill's women problems
c. The World Wrestling Federation to promote its next villain:
"Mustapha the Merciless"
d. Muslim males (mostly) between the ages of 17 and 40

On Oct 12, 2000, seventeen sailors died when the USS Cole was bombed by:
a. NASCAR officials
b. Barbie doll impersonators
c. Alf
d. Muslim males (mostly) between the ages of 17 and 40

On 9/11/01, four U.S. airliners were hijacked and thousands of people
were murdered by:
a. Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck and Elmer Fudd
b. The Supreme Court of Florida
c. Mr. Bean
d. Muslim males (mostly) between the ages of 17 and 40

In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:
a. Enron
b. The NFL
c. The Catholic Church
d. Muslim males (mostly) between the ages of 17 and 40

In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:
a. Bonny and Clyde
b. Captain Kangaroo
c. Billy Graham
d. Muslim males (mostly) between the ages of 17 and 40
by I love toxic emissions !!!!
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 8:33 AM
The level of stupidity that this organization appears to have sunk to is an all-time low, which is quite a challenge for the leftist enviro-fascists. I have yet to see one enviro-wacko response that even bordered on being coherent, much less well-reasoned. Pure and complete drivel, but that is probably giving it too much credit.

There is a simple solution to all of this. All of you weak-minded and simple-minded enviro-nazis can simply leave our great nation. No one is forcing you to stay. I will personally buy you a one way plane ticket to Mogadishu, Baghdad, Beirut, Kabul - pick one.

Our great nation provides a way of life that is beyond compare. You complain about toxic emissions killing people, yet cannot come up with one solid bit of evidence that gets anywhere near proof of same. You currently have a life expectancy that the Pilgrims, the Romans, or the Ottoman Turks would not have even been able to comprehend. Your arguments about drinking water, cancer, etc ... are, at best, meritless.

Here is the best solution I can come up with. You should all move to some barren land in sub-saharan Africa, and form your own tribe, ultimately forming your own nation-state. Once you have done so, you can then try to join the UN and hang out with all of the other undeveloped countries leaders, bemoaning the American way of life (whose prosperity generally supports these leaders).

If that does not work, you can just move to France and surrender every time you hear somebody say "Gezhundheit". Au revoir, you peace-nik enviro-fascist idiots ... The developed world will be much nicer without you !
by D. Eli Rutledge
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 9:36 AM
As I said, I was just going to troll this site, but I am compelled by your hateful, ignorant rhetoric to actually make a serious post. I drive a 1999 4Runner. "Yes, By claiming our rail system was "the most efficient in the world" you show nothing but your ignorance. The United States could never be a rail-based economy. The country is simply too large and there are simply too many people for something like that to be feasible. If you're going to argue for an alternate source of transportation -- do so intellegently. If you want the US to make any progress, then you would suggest moving to using hydrogen as a fuel -- the only emission of combusting hydrogen is water -- and not much of that. Wow, where else did y'all show your stupidity? You say that it is your right to deface property for purposes of "civil disobedience" and the ilk. Firstly, it is not your right. The only right you have to oppose the government is through a)well orginized and maintained militia b)peacable protests and gatherings c)free speech In none of those articles are you allowed to past anything (no matter how removable) to anything that you do not have express permission on which to do so. But Eli, it's protected under freedom of expression -- umm, no it's not. Your rights end where I (and in this case, my stuff) begin. It's the same logic as to why I can't shove a dildo up your ass without your permission. Also, I'm a social psychologist. Let me now give you a short little lesson on the human condition. Radical forms of protest simple make moderates move to a more radical opposing view. If you don't understand that, let me give you an example. An activist throws blood on a woman's fur coat. There are random other people around who see this. These random other people see the activist's actions. They are appalled by what the activist does (simple disregard for personal property and that ilk) and will then become a little more against the animal rights movement. Or in a case more pertainate to this one. Someone puts one of these bumper stickers on someone's truck. The bumperstickered person then gets pissed off, and puts straight pipes on his truck, thereby lowering his gas milage further. Or you get caught sticking one of these on a vehicle -- let's assume you don't get killed for fucking with someone's vehicle and assume you go to jail. What good are you doing in jail? How are you helping to change the world? You're not. You can't. This is the reason why y'all will never get anything accomplished and are only making it easier for big business to do what they like with the environment and the like. It's all because y'all are so self-righteous that you have no understanding of human nature and thereby can't use it to their advantage. And one last note -- most electricity still comes from burning coal.
by Ewe Trul Ydoe
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 10:15 AM
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/art2/nnolte1.jpg http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/art2/nnolte1.jpg http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/art2/nnolte1.jpg http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/art2/nnolte1.jpg http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/art2/nnolte1.jpg http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/art2/nnolte1.jpg http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/art2/nnolte1.jpg http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/art2/nnolte1.jpg http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/art2/nnolte1.jpg http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/art2/nnolte1.jpg http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/art2/nnolte1.jpg http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/art2/nnolte1.jpg http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/art2/nnolte1.jpg http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/art2/nnolte1.jpg http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/art2/nnolte1.jpg
by Environmentalist
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 10:24 AM
It's so nice to see that kind-hearted compassionate liberals are still looking out for the common good and really thinking things through. If your thoughtfully placed stickers work as you imagine them, causing all Americans to instantly stop driving cars and using petroleum products of any kind, you will have taken a large step leading to your own demise. It is today's modern society that produces and distributes the things that allow worthless people such as yourself to exist and spout your excremental hate speech. Left to your own devices in a primitive society, you would all starve to death, as you are too stupid to cultivate or harvest your own food, and you have no worthwhile skills.

I sincerely hope that the society you so hate decides to stop subsidizing the likes of you, so that you might see the error of your ways and become an honest, decent human being. If that isn't possible, may you be run over and killed by one of the fleets of human-drawn rickshaws you envision for all of America.
by British lackey
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 11:43 AM
It's about tea time here!
by Dr. Evil
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 11:46 AM
There really is nothing quite like the look of a shorn scrotum.
by ERG
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 11:57 AM
Trains need a source of power as well! (Electricity or various oil forms) Furthermore, your assertion that this country could eschew the car for rail is absurd. As a former resident of Tokyo I noted that most do use the train as a primary means of transport. I also noted that the roads are still completely packed with cars and the the air is so dirty that within days of arrival your mucus discharge (read:snot) comes out black.

Your point would be valid is you could provide one TRUE example of a place in this world that is successfully implimenting and living in a means that you favor.

The fact of the matter is that with the exception of a couple of small neighborhoods in the US and even smaller hamlets around the world your dream world does not exist. And it will never exist in a country the size of Japan, let alone one as vast as the US.

BE REALISTIC
by Ben (ohhbenny [at] aol.com)
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 12:27 PM
I agree with a post somewhere above this one. We should issue an ultimatum to the Muslim world that if there are any further attacks on American interests at home or abroad, Mecca will be destroyed. After all, the WTC was the Mecca of the capitalist world. We need to drop leaflets all over the middle east (ok, we can use rice paper with soy ink...fuckin hippies) of "doctored" photos showing missile launchers pointing directly at mecca. This would fool anyone who sees them, because most of those sand-jockeys dont even realize what a computer is, much less be able to spot a decently made fake photo.

It may sound cruel, but fear is the only tactic that will work in the middle east. Logic and reason have failed for the past 25 years. They have already been brain-washed into thinking that "The FBI caused 9/11 in order to rationalize the war on terror." I swear. I read it on OpinionJournal.com

In conclusion, if you don't like America, then go to Canada and join your draft-dodger forefathers. You radicals all talk tough, but can you back any of it up? No. You cant. You know damn well that if you took this battle to a real-life open forum, you would be laughed into submission. How can anyone as scrawny, pale, and utterly annoying as you possibly be charismatic?

By the way, im a deck-hand on a ship that burns 900 gallons of gas/hour and releases huge plumes of black smoke that can't be controlled by the EPA, because....its a ship!

Ben
by Max Lemke (MaxLemke [at] aol.com)
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 12:30 PM
Brian,

I sympathize with you for the insensitivity of this act. The of decency shown by the person who defaced your car cannot be justified by their ideology. They shouted and screamed and were ignored. Now they are on the slipery slope to criminal behavior.
by truthteller
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 12:57 PM
No offense, Max, but nessie IS a criminal. There's NO excuse for vandalism, and pissing on the dead.
by duh!
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 1:20 PM
Hey,

To the troll(s) who are trying to flood out intelligent discourse on this little minor tiny little action of harmless paper on big harmful savior righty/lefty upside down rightside up smoking life saving better than worse than trains cars, hold on there!!!

WHY ARE YOU ATTACKING INDYMEDIA?

I mean really, they didn't do this, they just provided the place where you can spend your (worthless/valuable/lengthny/short/lefty/righty/blah/blha) time spouting all your frustrations out.

When the New York Times reports on something you don't like, but it's news, do you have the same reaction? Do you start posting death threats to them and putting up maps with crosshairs on them?

GIVE ME A BREAK! Okay IMC is always going to suffer somewhat for the saboteurs, whether they're paid to, or just mentally unstable, or whatever. In a sense it's a big pool like the pool of swimming aminos and lightnign that supposedly life came from.

I JUST HOPE THEY EVOLVE SOON!

And as for threatening the people who posted this originally, HEY, THEY DIDN'T SAY TO POST THEM WITHOUT PERMISSION! They just said that any American who actually cares will speak the truth and "proudly" put them on their vehicles.

So don't tell me who is unable to think straight.

Get some thicker skin if you want to claim to be the empire of the world, you're going to have to start exposing yourself to new ideas and different people.

It isn't a one-world government just yet little (pampered/privileged/harworking/worthy) BOYS.

Yes that's sexist and I meant it, because the trolls here speak like ignorant testosterone blinded adolescent fools. Want me to make a pop quiz about that?

by wish people would think
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 1:29 PM
So when there weren't double and triple posting
after posting about smashing faces and killing
reporters and "liberals" (as if IMC are liberals!)
there were some attempts at discussing the
issues of some of the anti-car postings.

You challenged them about their toxic computers
and where their food and wheat paste comes
from and all that.

Well, gee, let's be realistic. The Union of Concerned
Scientists, a highly respected group, pronounced that
the #1 thing any one individual can do to reduce her
or his impact on the environment is to get rid of
their car.

Now we have a situation where the terrorists we've
propped up, funded, and armed, whether you consider
them the Bin Ladens or the Bushes or both (I know
they're both), are killing on our soil. Not just overseas
in video game wars that cost billions. Not just our
boys'n girls in the new vietnam(s). They're playing
us just like they always did.

I didn't want to say this so soon by the way but you
violent threat making person or persons, really should
think about the fact that the U.S. is actually still full of
some human beings who have some human compassion,
even though they've been subjected to such a barrage
of social control forces. So when they see the ugly
face of what's really DRIVING foreign policy -- people
who threaten to kill news reporters for hosting an
open forum -- gee they might just start to have some
compassion for the so-called "liberal" side.

Note that cars have radically changed the face of the
earth over the past 100 years, and despite the good
things about cars mostly they're bad, and they can't
last as currently planned. Any true conservative
knows this country, and the world, has lost a lot
to this massive change. People who can't think
straight and speak from a place of boxed-in anger
are one salient result.

You've proved the point of the original poster and her
or his harmless suggestion that you post a piece
of paper on your precious car.
by Ben (ohhbenny [at] aol.com)
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 1:30 PM
what the hell are you talking about? That made less sense than a Zaccarias Moussauoi testimony .

Ben
§*
by Ben
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 1:32 PM
My previous comment was in reply to the "Calm down you censors" post
by ......
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 1:51 PM
the troll's fantasies and volume of spittle appear to increase in direct proportion to being ignored in a thread. If you watch closely, you can see him talking to himself and getting angrier and angrier. Pretty soon he'll have a conniption fit if we just don't talk to the smelly little hyper weirdo. It gets pretty funny actually.
by me
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 2:15 PM
Burn in hell, nessie faggot. You motherfuckers are still pissing on the dead. You are the epitome of hate crimes/speech. To do this on September the 11th, to dishonor the dead, is obscene. There's NO excuse. You are traitors, and believe me, if I could, I'd just soon gut you useless pigs.

You are Evil. The left isn't called sinister for nothing. Our forefathers centuries ago recognized the Evil in their midst, and here you are again. It's time for war, to kill you traitors to send you to those 72 faggots you crave.
by .......
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 2:16 PM
hehehehehehe
by me
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 2:28 PM
Don't suppose you'd take anything serious, since you're a thug and an obscene IslamoFascist traitor who pisses on graves. All the more reason to want war. Let's not stop with Iraq. Let's continue into Kalifornia.
by Righten wingnut w/ 2 ft lbs torque.
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 3:39 PM
All this discussion about the dreaded "deathmobile" SUV's is lunacy. Don't you leftists realize it was YOU who created the SUV's in the first place? All your whining and bellyaching about toxic emissions and gas mileage forced the government to impose strict emission and fuel-mileage standards that made large automobiles and station wagons virtually impossible to produce with sufficient power to propel themselves forward. The auto industry responded to the LARGE demand for large vehicles by building the SUV on a light truck chassis. thereby circumventing the standards adopted for passenger cars. By producing them as a trucks, they did not have to follow the standards for cars. You can not take away from people what they desire. In this case they desired large vehicles (in great numbers), and you sniveling tree-huggers provided the means for the auto industry to give them what they wanted.

As for polluting, keep in mind a brand new auto or SUV driving down the Interstate highway at 65 mph produces less toxic emissions than a 60's era automobile does parked in the driveway with the engine off. Again we can give thanks to technological advances the auto industry has made. Older cars vented everything to the exterior, newer cars recirculate emissions. Think about that you greenie weanies as you're sputtering down the road in your 1965 VW bus while thinking you're ecologically superior to the SUV driver who hopefully won't be paying attention when you two meet in an intersection.

Remember RIGHT is not only the opposite of left but also wrong...
by dsfdsgf
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 3:41 PM
fuck osama fuck osama
by Not coughcoughkafka
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 4:35 PM
Let's see. You use ink and paper and glue and various polymers to make a bumpersticker to deface people's property and you call youself an environmentalist?

You are also using oil to generate the electricity to run both the internet and your computer.

Get a life - a real one.
by Rossz
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 4:51 PM
If I see one of those indymedia assholes putting one on my car, I will personally beat the holy fuck out of him or her. If I find one on my car but don't catch the person, I will drive to the indymedia headquarters and extract personal revenge.

You indymedia assholes are completely cluessless, completely brainless, and an insult to people who truely try to bring about change. I hope the police find enough evidence to shut your sorry ass down.

by Bin Laden
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 4:54 PM
Thank you for helping my cause. You are ignorant and should not call yourself a liberal. Put a sticker on my car and it's go time...
by Jessica (american_doll [at] hotmail.com)
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 5:07 PM
Do America a favor and stop putting LCD on your veggie-burgers. Stop hugging the enemy. Stop polluting good American citizen with your far-left lies.

I thought liberals fought for diversity! The comment below seems quite racist to me!

"And if you are Jewish Bryan, as we are all certain you must be, the sticker was particularly apt. As an American Jew YOU actually did cause the alleged 9/11 death of your relative by your blind support for Israel."

Nice to know you people support Palestinians sending their teenagers out to kill innocent people riding buses or buying pizza.
by popeye
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 5:11 PM
you mean the racist comment YOU posted under another nick? ahahahahahha! we all know, we know every time you write who it is. You're the butt of all jokes on the chat.
by ruprecht
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 5:14 PM
Clearly shows that some of these folks feel they can not win in a debate and have to resort to vandal tactics. Very sad day for he left.
by popeye
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 5:16 PM
you mean the racist comment YOU posted under another nick? ahahahahahha! we all know, we know every time you write who it is. You're the butt of all jokes on the chat.

Here's what they're saying about you at the moment:

> >> >>>>>>>>>> He's a pizza delivery boy.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>He's a pizza delivery boy and he get no tips.
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>He's a pizza delivery boy with halitosis and he gets
> >> >>>>>>>>no tips.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>He's a pizza delivery boy with halitosis and volcanic
> >> >>>>>>>acne and he gets no tips.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>He's a pizza delivery boy with halitosis, anal herpes and
> >> >>>>>>volcanic acne and he gets no tips.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>He's a pizza delivery boy with halitosis, anal
> >> >>>>>herpes, stinky fingers, and volcanic acne and he gets no tips.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>He's a pizza delivery boy with halitosis, anal
> >> >>>>herpes, stinky fingers, weeping chancres, and volcanic acne, and he
> >> >>>>gets no tips.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>He's a pizza delivery boy with halitosis, anal
> >> >>>herpes, stinky fingers, weeping chancres, oozing carbuncles, and
> >> >>>volcanic acne, and he gets no tips.
> >> >>
> >> >>He's an undersexed pizza delivery boy with halitosis, anal
> >> >>herpes, stinky fingers, weeping chancres, oozing carbuncles, and
> >> >>volcanic acne, and he gets no tips.
> >> >
> >> >He's an undersexed, emaciated pizza delivery boy with
> >> >halitosis, anal herpes, stinky fingers, weeping chancres, oozing
> >> >carbuncles, and volcanic acne, and he gets no tips.
> >>
> >> He's an three-legged, undersexed, emaciated pizza
> >> delivery boy with halitosis, anal herpes, stinky fingers, weeping
> >> chancres, oozing carbuncles, and volcanic acne, and he gets no tips
> >> except ass-pennies.
by Flyover Country
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 5:17 PM
See, this is why I enjoy living out here in Mid-America. People who would try to deface your automobile with such trash really don't exist.

That's because we have some bumper stickers of our own that we like to put next to the Stars 'n Stripes:

"This Vehicle and Driver Protected by Smith & Wesson"

My advice to all of you Americans is to get the hell out of California, and move to a place where mass-consummerism hasn't turned a bunch of hot-tubbing trust fund suckers into paper-hangin' sons of bitches.
by Flyover Country
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 5:18 PM
See, this is why I enjoy living out here in Mid-America. People who would try to deface your automobile with such trash really don't exist.

That's because we have some bumper stickers of our own that we like to put next to the Stars 'n Stripes:

"This Vehicle and Driver Protected by Smith & Wesson"

My advice to all of you Americans is to get the hell out of California, and move to a place where mass-consummerism hasn't turned a bunch of hot-tubbing trust fund suckers into paper-hangin' sons of bitches.
by drek
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 5:24 PM
TrollNerd thinks he's a midwest redneck now. What's next, will he say he's a jet pilot from Iceland or maybe a circus performer out of Dildo, Newfoundland? The latter might just be the truth, though
by Colon Cowboy
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 5:28 PM
Speak into the canyon, hear the echo.
by Nunya
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 5:29 PM
Danny Elfman put it best in this song:

Capitalism

There's nothing wrong with Capitalism
There's nothing wrong with free enterprise
Don't try to make me feel guilty
I'm so tired of hearing you cry

There's nothing wrong with making some profit
If you ask me I'll say it's just fine
There's nothing wrong with wanting to live nice
I'm so tired of hearing you whine
About the revolution
Bringin' down the rich
When was the last time you dug a ditch, baby!

If it ain't one thing
Then it's the other
Any cause that crosses your path
Your heart bleeds for anyone's brother
I've got to tell you you're a pain in the ass

You criticize with plenty of vigor
You rationalize everything that you do
With catchy phrases and heavy quotations
And everybody is crazy but you

You're just a middle class, socialist brat
From a suburban family and you never really had to work
And you tell me that we've got to get back
To the struggling masses (whoever they are)
You talk, talk, talk about suffering and pain
Your mouth is bigger than your entire brain
What the hell do you know about suffering and pain . . .

(Repeat first verse)

(Repeat chorus)

There's nothing wrong with Capitalism
There's nothing wrong with Capitalism
There's nothing wrong with Capitalism
There's nothing wrong with Capitalism

by Colon Cowboy
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 5:32 PM
Speak into the canyon, hear the echo.
by Nunya
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 5:32 PM
Danny Elfman put it best in this song:

Capitalism

There's nothing wrong with Capitalism
There's nothing wrong with free enterprise
Don't try to make me feel guilty
I'm so tired of hearing you cry

There's nothing wrong with making some profit
If you ask me I'll say it's just fine
There's nothing wrong with wanting to live nice
I'm so tired of hearing you whine
About the revolution
Bringin' down the rich
When was the last time you dug a ditch, baby!

If it ain't one thing
Then it's the other
Any cause that crosses your path
Your heart bleeds for anyone's brother
I've got to tell you you're a pain in the ass

You criticize with plenty of vigor
You rationalize everything that you do
With catchy phrases and heavy quotations
And everybody is crazy but you

You're just a middle class, socialist brat
From a suburban family and you never really had to work
And you tell me that we've got to get back
To the struggling masses (whoever they are)
You talk, talk, talk about suffering and pain
Your mouth is bigger than your entire brain
What the hell do you know about suffering and pain . . .

(Repeat first verse)

(Repeat chorus)

There's nothing wrong with Capitalism
There's nothing wrong with Capitalism
There's nothing wrong with Capitalism
There's nothing wrong with Capitalism

by Cristina Yu
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 5:32 PM
How do you assholes even sleep at night?
by Nunya
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 5:33 PM
Danny Elfman put it best in this song:

Capitalism

There's nothing wrong with Capitalism
There's nothing wrong with free enterprise
Don't try to make me feel guilty
I'm so tired of hearing you cry

There's nothing wrong with making some profit
If you ask me I'll say it's just fine
There's nothing wrong with wanting to live nice
I'm so tired of hearing you whine
About the revolution
Bringin' down the rich
When was the last time you dug a ditch, baby!

If it ain't one thing
Then it's the other
Any cause that crosses your path
Your heart bleeds for anyone's brother
I've got to tell you you're a pain in the ass

You criticize with plenty of vigor
You rationalize everything that you do
With catchy phrases and heavy quotations
And everybody is crazy but you

You're just a middle class, socialist brat
From a suburban family and you never really had to work
And you tell me that we've got to get back
To the struggling masses (whoever they are)
You talk, talk, talk about suffering and pain
Your mouth is bigger than your entire brain
What the hell do you know about suffering and pain . . .

(Repeat first verse)

(Repeat chorus)

There's nothing wrong with Capitalism
There's nothing wrong with Capitalism
There's nothing wrong with Capitalism
There's nothing wrong with Capitalism

by Cristina Yu
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 5:34 PM
How do you assholes even sleep at night?
by hooper
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 5:38 PM
TrollNerd gloating after spending 36 hours writing about his scatalogical obsessions on IMC.
by Flyover Country
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 5:41 PM
Nah. I think you got me confused with someone else.

I am in the mid-west, but am sorry to inform you that I'm no redneck. We're all big inta' this book-learnin' stuff now. But not many people who spend much time reading shit like I see published on this board would know that.

There's all types of us out here. I'm a working professional, agnostic in my religious beliefs (Islam is as big of a load of shit as Christianity), and am proud to say that my home state offers concealed carry licences.

So again, I have a bit of advice for all of you Californians who are fed up: move. Not tomorrow, not next week, but now. Move to a place where people are willing to show some respect for their fellow man, and leave them be to live their lives as they choose.

It will be the best thing you ever did. Sure will beat trying to keep these self-gratifying assholes away from your property.
by I agree to disagree
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 5:42 PM
All you folks like to point fingers at each other, but nobudy takes blame or credit for anything.Religion wars have ben going on since the bible was written(over 2000 years ago) If you can tell me why one God is better than another, then I'll get off my soapbox. So much for people being equal. Keep pissing and moaning, and you will never solve nothing.
by Ra Hassan (rbournival [at] attbi.com)
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 5:42 PM
What a completely nitwit thing to do. Assign blame for 9/11 based on the size of the car.

Too bad it's not as easy to measure the level of understanding as to why the United States came to being.

Obvious point, and thanks, Mr. Santyana (for those who don't burn books on this site) that those who fail to understand history are doomed to repeat it.

Oh, and are modern day Chaimberlains. Sleep well tonight, hope your conscience.doesn't bother you.

Do you have any Boston offices? Do tell.
by Angry W. Male
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 5:49 PM
If I catch anyone of you doing this on my car, I will carve my response on your forehead with a Leatherman. Capisce?
by Matt Miller
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 6:03 PM
This bumper sticker brought to you by the "Right Wing Radio Host Full-Employment Act." They'll be talking about this for years.

And remember. If anybody decides to buy a couple cans of gasoline and pour them out in a wildlife preserve in protest SF Indymedia is fully responsible.
by Clayton E. Cramer
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 6:03 PM
One of the reasons that I moved out of California was that I was tired of listening to ignorance pretending to be wisdom, and this effort to promote vandalism (under the coy pretense of distributing it your friends) is just more of the same.

Why do so many Americans drive these behemoth SUVs? Because the environmentalists wanted the government to "do something" about gas mileage. They did: the Corporate Average Fuel Economy statute.

But as with most things that come from environmentalists, it reflected their ignorance of the real world. They mandated 27.5 mpg for American-made cars, but a much lower mileage for trucks--and they completely excluded imported cars.

So what happened?

1. Large American station wagons (Chevrolet Impala, for example), went away, because they lowered the CAFE numbers too much. But Americans didn't buy those station wagons because they liked to rape Mother Earth. They bought them to transport two adults, 2-4 children, and luggage. So now they had to buy something else--a van, or an SUV, which had comparable seating and cargo room. Which do you think would get better mileage? A 2002 Tahoe, or a 2002 Chevrolet Impala station wagon?

2. The exemption for imports means that Toyota for a while was making four cylinder Camrys in America, and shipping them to Japan while shipping six cylinder Camrys from Japan to America. The four cylinder Camrys contributed to their CAFE number; the six cylinders weren't counted. Think of the oil involved in this insane transportation of cars across an ocean!

3. Rail systems? What do you provides the power to run them? Electricity or diesel fuel. And where do those come from?

You guys are idiots, and your enthusiasm for police states is just a reminder of why I am never giving up my guns. You really ought to read a bit about the part that your sorts (Mother Earth worshippers) played in creating the climate that brought Hitler to power.
by dude
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 6:03 PM
Assclowns. Are you fucking trying to make yourself as marginal as possible? Because it sure seems that way.
by Clayton E. Cramer
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 6:06 PM
One of the reasons that I moved out of California was that I was tired of listening to ignorance pretending to be wisdom, and this effort to promote vandalism (under the coy pretense of distributing it your friends) is just more of the same.

Why do so many Americans drive these behemoth SUVs? Because the environmentalists wanted the government to "do something" about gas mileage. They did: the Corporate Average Fuel Economy statute.

But as with most things that come from environmentalists, it reflected their ignorance of the real world. They mandated 27.5 mpg for American-made cars, but a much lower mileage for trucks--and they completely excluded imported cars.

So what happened?

1. Large American station wagons (Chevrolet Impala, for example), went away, because they lowered the CAFE numbers too much. But Americans didn't buy those station wagons because they liked to rape Mother Earth. They bought them to transport two adults, 2-4 children, and luggage. So now they had to buy something else--a van, or an SUV, which had comparable seating and cargo room. Which do you think would get better mileage? A 2002 Tahoe, or a 2002 Chevrolet Impala station wagon?

2. The exemption for imports means that Toyota for a while was making four cylinder Camrys in America, and shipping them to Japan while shipping six cylinder Camrys from Japan to America. The four cylinder Camrys contributed to their CAFE number; the six cylinders weren't counted. Think of the oil involved in this insane transportation of cars across an ocean!

3. Rail systems? What do you think provides the power to run them? Electricity or diesel fuel. And where do those come from?

You guys are idiots, and your enthusiasm for police states is just a reminder of why I am never giving up my guns. You really ought to read a bit about the part that your sorts (Mother Earth worshippers) played in creating the climate that brought Hitler to power.
by grateful American
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 6:17 PM
Vandalizing cars that display the American flag is the most mentally retarded idea I've heard all week. I didn't have a flag decal for my car before, but I'm going to get one now. And if I catch any worthless fucking asshole vandalizing my car, I will cause a miniature 9/11 on his worthless shitty face
by .......
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 6:32 PM
listen to mr. toughtroll. He's won awards for intimidation, yes he has.
by Iron Fist
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 6:40 PM
"Left to your own devices in a primitive society, you
would all starve to death, as you are too
stupid to cultivate or harvest your own food, and you
have no worthwhile skills. "

Almost correct. Left to their own devices in a
primitive society, they would not survive pissing
off someone like myself. Therefore, they
would not likely live long enough to starve to death.

They are contemptible little pricks, but I think part of
why the Left has grown so offensive is
because it is realizing how irrelevant it
has become.

As proof of this I offer the defeat of Billy McKinney. He
was as whacky-left as any of the fruits, nuts, and flakes over on the Left coast.

And the good citizens of Georgia in his district have
chosen not to be represented by him any longer.

Whether something similar will happen in the People's Republic of California is anybody's guess, but, given what I am seeing on the Internet, it doesn't look like it. Maybe we'll get lucky and they will secede. I, for one, would be willing to say "So long, good bye, it was fun while it lasted."

And don't ask for any foreign aid." :-)

by .......
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 6:47 PM
hey troll:

http://www.advicemeant.com/troll/trollone.html

anyone who is not a troll would be ill-advised to follow that link
by Tom Brosz
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 6:51 PM
Hey, you little snots, why not go to New York and stick one of these stickers on a fire engine? They burn LOTS of gas. Be sure to explain it to the firefighters.

If there was any justice, you would wake up one morning tranferred into an alternate reality, where the world is EXACTLY like you deserve. You'll find yourself living in a rude hut, pounding roots for food, watching flies crawling on your kids' eyes, and parasites eating their way out of your skin. No oil will be burning anywhere within a hundred miles of you, and the air will be clean and fresh. Except for the stench of rot.

Oh wait--that's not a parallel universe. That's the lifestyle of millions of people here and now in the Third World--you know, the ones people just like you at the Earth Summit were complaining might wreck everything by getting electricity and plumbing. The ones living the life you would wish on all of us.
by your nutz
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 6:55 PM
Your real fuckin CUTE i hope we run into you....... or better yet WE'll COME TO YOU 15 MEU BRING IT ON
by your nutz
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 6:57 PM
Your real fuckin CUTE i hope we run into you....... or better yet WE'll COME TO YOU 15 MEU BRING IT ON
by your nutz
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 6:58 PM
Your real fuckin CUTE i hope we run into you....... or better yet WE'll COME TO YOU 15 MEU BRING IT ON
AND IF this is one of you ARAB MOTHER F'ers your name will be on every piece of ammo that loads into my SAW
by .......
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 7:01 PM
now he thinks he has a SAW, this gets more and more amusing. Folks I suggest we submit all of his comments to a psychology project on right wing fantasies and masturbation.
by 9mm leaves a big hole
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 7:09 PM
Put one on my car and I'll let you talk to my Glock G17. One 9mm hollow point protection round will leave a nice size hole and they tell me it hurts like hell.
by zioislamoliberonazi(lol)
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 7:16 PM
look at this folks. Now TrollNerd is claiming he has a Glock too. What a loser.
by gwoman
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 7:25 PM
Hey, hobo underdog and others of your ilk...

All this talk of paving over farmland... Obviously you live on the "left coast". Or even the East coast. Whatever. Have you ever BEEN to the Mid-west? We produce more food than we can eat in this country, and when we try to give the surplus away to the needy (as in Zambia), they freak out because our grain is engineered to withstand insects and to yield MORE food.

I'm so tired of people giving ignorant pukes like you guys credit. You're exactly like the "radical right", except worse - because your viewpoints, since they're liberal, are actually encouraged by the media and leftist university types.

Has it ever occurred to you that your statements (there was one addressed to poor Brian above that is a prime example) could be construed as anti-semitic? Maybe you want the U.S. to revile the Jewish people like Hitler's Germany. He certainly did away with those "nasty Jews".

For heaven's sake, you have a brain (maybe). Think about what you're saying. Instead of being a self-satisfied self-congratulating schmuck, try to have some respect for your fellow man.
by gwoman
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 7:26 PM
Hey, hobo underdog and others of your ilk...

All this talk of paving over farmland... Obviously you live on the "left coast". Or even the East coast. Whatever. Have you ever BEEN to the Mid-west? We produce more food than we can eat in this country, and when we try to give the surplus away to the needy (as in Zambia), they freak out because our grain is engineered to withstand insects and to yield MORE food.

I'm so tired of people giving ignorant pukes like you guys credit. You're exactly like the "radical right", except worse - because your viewpoints, since they're liberal, are actually encouraged by the media and leftist university types.

Has it ever occurred to you that your statements (there was one addressed to poor Brian above that is a prime example) could be construed as anti-semitic? Maybe you want the U.S. to revile the Jewish people like Hitler's Germany. He certainly did away with those "nasty Jews".

For heaven's sake, you have a brain (maybe). Think about what you're saying. Instead of being a self-satisfied self-congratulating schmuck, try to have some respect for your fellow man.
by Brian Ellenberger (brian_ellenberger [at] hotmail.com)
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 8:58 PM
I find it ironic that the bumper sticker specifically mentions "Individual Responsibility", yet from the message it appears the author does not have the slightest clue what the heck that means.

Individual Responsibility means each of us is responsible for our *own* actions. If I murder someone, it is *my* fault. There is no root cause except me. I'm shocked that these left-wingers used this term because Individual Responsibility is the bane of left-wing group-think. Your never an individual, your always *always* lumped together with a group based on race, sex, religion, or a host of other categories.

And the only people that are "Individually Responsible" are the ones that personally planned and orchistrated these attacks on 3000 people just trying to go to work that dreadful morning. And I don't think many of them go around with American flags on their cars.

If Osama were an person trying to be "Individually Responsible" he would have taken the millons of dollar he had from oil and invested the money in Science, Industry, the Arts, Educations, or a host of other things that would build people up. Instead he made the personal decision to destroy.

Brian Ellenberger
by The Enforcer
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 9:13 PM
This weekend I'm going to be cruising neighborhoods in Frisco in a small car. If I see anyone applying these bumper stickers, I will stop my car, take out a nice, heavy, 34 inch aluminum baseball bat and beat the offending motherfucker to a bloody pulp.

It's my way of making this little planet a friendlier place.
by Ariel
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 9:19 PM
<<You jews are the worst. We hate you. I hope your relative dead in pain. I just wish we could take control of the world media, the banks, and the US from you jews.>>

And why should anyone take you seriously?

You're not even factually accurate. If the Jews controlled the world media, why can't the media's coverage at least be pro-Israeli? If the Jews control the banks, why is it that one of the biggest shareholders of Citibank is a Fraudi Arabian prince?

Doesn't Indymedia have a no racist idiocy policy to prevent this kind of BS.
by Ariel
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 9:26 PM
<<Calm down and look who's taking your tax money and 'dissapearing it' out of the pentagon budget - 3.3 billion this year. Can't blame Hussein for that. Can't blame Osama.>>

How much did the WTC attacks take out of the US economy? How about the USS Cole? Tanzania/Kenya bombings? Khobar Towers? Beirut marine barracks? Iranian embassy?

A little more than $3.3b per annum. IDIOT.
by Cagey
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 9:30 PM
> "Printing on paper and affixing with wheat paste is an
>expedient, nonharmful, removable, and environmentally
>friendly option. Plus its cheap. "
>So I think these stickers are not made of oil.

What hypocrisy!! How much oil did it take to harvest the trees, process them into paper and transport it to you?? The same goes for wheat - I'm not aware of any solar-powered tractors. And does the wheat magically appear in the store or does it get there by truck or diesel locomotive??

Face it - pretty much EVERYTHING we have at some time requires oil to power it, create it, transport it or consume it. Lots of oil was used to create the PCs and servers you use to spread this nonsense and chances are great that it is being burned to power them as well.

So why don't y'all climb off your high-horse and stop harassing people. If you simply must be self-righteous, go off and live in the woods or something. Just remember you can't bring any kind of manufactured item with you. (oops - there goes the knife, tent, sleeping bag and hatchet) . And bring some ID so that they can identify your bleached bones after you fail to make it without our civilization and technology supporting your useless ass.

PS - pissing people off is rarely a good way to get them to work with you on a problem. This bumper sticker seems designed to appeal more to those who enjoy being assholes than to those who sincerely want to find ways to improve our planet.
by Suck
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 9:40 PM
This crap makes me want to go buy another Ford Explorer. I would love to run over the panty waste little peice of shit who created that bumper sticker. What a cowardly little bedwetting sucker.
by SirBov
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 9:44 PM
In Christianity, God came to earth, became completely human, died died and rose on the third day for us. The completion of Judaism.
In Islam, allah requires you to die for him.
by God
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 9:56 PM
" All you people (or maybe just one troll) giving threats for this horrible "crime" of "defacement" just remember that this country was founded on a tradition of civil disobedience"

Hmm. Well, yes, there were a few acts of civil disobedience. There were also a number of times where the patriots tarred and feathered the opposition, seized their property, and forced them to flee to Canada on pain of death.

So I, the Almighty God, hereby decree that any time you see someone attaching such a bumper sticker, you are to cover him in hot tar, feather him, transfer all his assets to the family of someone killed in the terrorist attacks, and march him at gunpoint to the Canadian border, with the understanding that if he ever returns to the U.S., he is to be hung by the neck until dead.
by The Almighty God
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 9:57 PM
" All you people (or maybe just one troll) giving threats for this horrible "crime" of "defacement" just remember that this country was founded on a tradition of civil disobedience"

Hmm. Well, yes, there were a few acts of civil disobedience. There were also a number of times where the patriots tarred and feathered the opposition, seized their property, and forced them to flee to Canada on pain of death.

So I, the Almighty God, hereby decree that any time you see someone attaching such a bumper sticker, you are to cover him in hot tar, feather him, transfer all his assets to the family of someone killed in the terrorist attacks, and march him at gunpoint to the Canadian border, with the understanding that if he ever returns to the U.S., he is to be hung by the neck until dead.
by Ariel
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 9:58 PM
<<Many pro-Palestinians have had their bumperstickers torn off their cars by Zionazis. Jews always try to claim they are the only ones who experience such "hate-crimes". >>

ZIONAZIS??? Umm, could you be a little more idiotic? If you're a Zionist, you can't be a Nazi.

And if you're pro-Palestinian, you should really rethink the issues. You're supporting a group of people that oppress women, stone homosexuals, kill collaborators without a trial, have honor killings of women, explode themselves in supermarkets killing innocents, etc. And they're supported by the Saudi entity - so either be pro-oil or pro-Palestinian - at least be logically consistent. IDIOT.

How many hate crimes have there been against Arabs in the last year? After they destroyed the WTC towers. Very, very few. IDIOT.
by NTropy
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 9:58 PM
YHWH / Jehovah
He stepped out of eternity, became human, lived among us, was crucified and three days later raised from the dead. He died to save us! The completion of Judaism and their (largely) unrecognized messiah. His was a message of love.

allah on the other hand, rather than dying to save his creation, cruelly demands that they die for him. his is a message of death.
by an American and PROUD of it
Friday Sep 13th, 2002 11:14 PM
September 13, 2002, 10:30 a.m.
Going to Work
The real meaning of the World Trade Center attacks.

By Ann Marlowe



A few days after September 11, my mother referred to the victims of the World Trade Center attack as people who were killed just for going to work. This casual observation illuminates the motivations of the terrorists and explains why hand-wringing over what the United States "did wrong" is a waste of time. The September 11 terrorists killed civilians of no particular power or importance, minding their own business, because these ordinary actions of ordinary people are the mainstay of economic rationality. The hijackers were targeting economic man, and he is to be found at work.

Attacks on civilians in peacetime are a relatively recent phenomenon, and suicide attacks still more so. Political and military leaders have always been targets for assassination. Politically motivated killings of prominent people, by gunmen who assumed that they would give their lives in their mission, emerged as a widespread phenomenon in the late 19th century; the assassination that precipitated World War One being the most famous. The murder of Abraham Lincoln is a case closer to home.

Attacks on ordinary people outside of warfare did not occur until ordinary people achieved some importance to themselves and others. They must be political actors, in however minor a sense. For a very long time, anyone who hated the established order knew exactly whom to kill, and it wasn't common folk.

Attacks on ordinary people going about their business are the result of several related changes in the structure of society. One is the simultaneous diffusion and interconnectedness of power relationships, which makes assigning blame or responsibility difficult. Another is the sense that any of us is as culpable for the state of society as a whole as anyone else. Today's terrorists know that the established order is maintained by ordinary people observing a thousand norms of behavior, rather than by powerful people with guns and jails. In the Western democracies, and increasingly in other parts of the world, we get up and go to work each day not because the threat of starvation, or a feudal lord or evil boss forces us to, but because we subscribe to the notion of economic rationality.

Economic rationality is anti-death in the most basic sense. It assumes that staying alive is a positive value. Assuming that we all want to go on living makes time a scarce resource. It's the perception of mortality as an undesirable fact that makes our time valuable and that makes paid work sensible, as well as necessary, for almost all of us. Suicidal terrorism says: no, staying alive is not the most important thing. This is why suicidal terrorism sends a deep shock through society. It is inherently opposed to the world of work, the domain of economic man.

This is not to say that terrorists are slackers who are trying to avoid effort, though that belief motivated Joseph Conrad in one of the first literary portraits of terrorists in The Secret Agent (1907). "The majority of revolutionists are the enemies of discipline and fatigue mostly," Conrad tells us. But the September 11 terrorists were nothing if not assiduous in their training. They seem to have lived more like the most startlingly contemporary character in The Secret Agent, the professor, who keeps enough dynamite on his person to ensure that the police do not arrest him. The professor boasts of working fourteen hours a day and going hungry to finance his experiments with explosives. In this spirit, several of the September 11 terrorists undertook difficult and lengthy courses of education aimed only at the successful completion of their suicide-murder.

There is something in the paradox of getting an engineering degree and flight training only to kill oneself shortly thereafter that leaves many of us scratching our heads. Why didn't they get the good jobs they trained for and get on with their lives? But they didn't want to get on with their lives; they wanted to end them. They didn't want careers; so far as we know, none of them spent long in a conventional job. Instead, they had a mission.

"It is the duty," Max Weber wrote long ago, "of those who have been called to a charismatic mission to recognize its quality and act accordingly." Much of what Weber says about charismatic groups describes al Qaeda:

What is despised..is traditional or rational everyday economizing, the attainment of a regular income by continuous economic activity devoted to this end. Support by gifts…even by bribery and grand-scale honoraria, or by begging, constitute the strictly voluntary type of support…Coercion..is the other typical form of charismatic provision for needs. From the point of view of rational economic activity, charisma is a typical anti-economic force. It repudiates any sort of involvement in the everyday routine world.

While the victims of September 11 did not, as a whole, have a mission, they did, individually, work that they cared about. The capsule biographies of the World Trade Center dead published in the New York Times make clear how many of them, the bond traders and janitors and busboys and firefighters alike, loved what they did for a living.

Some of what we get paid for, we also do for love. At its best, work offers access to a diluted form of immortality, but the suicide attackers took theirs straight. The paradox that we will not be able to dodge is that the September 11 terrorists — like those who have killed in the name of Christianity — acted out of a kind of love, too. They killed, and died, for of the love of Allah, they might have explained; their victims were just
going to work.

It can be difficult to draw the line between the passion for our work most of us find admirable, and the fanaticism of the September 11 hijackers. While many of us wish for work so absorbing and vital that we would do it whether or not we needed the money, we also know that it's possible to work too much, or to see too much in one's work. The old saw that work is what they pay you to do reminds us that the link between work and compensation offers some guide to what is nutty. Jobs as fanatics are non-paying; that's why fanatics take them. They don't subscribe to the belief system of economic rationality.

In this vein, consider a devastating observation by Conrad in The Secret Agent:

No man engaged in a work he does not like can preserve many saving illusions about himself. The distaste, the absence of glamour, extend from the occupation to the personality. It is only when our appointed activities seem by a lucky accident to obey the particular earnestness of our temperament that we can taste the comfort of complete self-deception.

One of the reasons why work is good for the character is that it is, for most of us, frictional: Where it makes us bump into the world is where we need to look at ourselves. Complete happiness in one's work is rare; perhaps it is known only to fanatics. Perhaps it is a sign that there is something off in one's behavior. The rough realism of the workplace makes it difficult to assume the possession of special higher truths that justify the killing of thousands of innocent people. Such delusions flourish in more secluded spots.

Shortly after the attacks there were attempts to explain them as a response to globalization, or imperialism, or various real or imagined mistakes in American foreign policy. But the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. One of the causes of the September 11 attacks was simply that the hijackers hadn't spent much time going to work.


by toast
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 12:06 AM
All these right-wing nut cases are really freaked out .. . over a little bit of paper . . . who would have thought a BUMPERSTICKER would be the item to push them over the edge? To expose the hypocrisy of their calls for violent revenge while claiming to be so proud of people who risk their lives (polie and firefighters) to SAVE lives - all lives. Who would have thought the right would so easily drop their false mantle of concern over 9/11 for the thrill of instant violence - exactly what police and firefighters would have asked people NOT to engage in.

Real nice going guys, I'm sure the boys in blue would be real proud to know you're all threatening violent action, to which more police and firefighters could then put their lives on the line by having to respond when the crowd calls 911 and they arrest you. Real smart.

The real tarnish to the memory of those workers is in these calls for violence against other people - this is what the police and firefighters would have abhored, right wing losers wasting their time and energy by violently attacking people over a BUMPERSTICKER.
by me
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 12:24 AM
Are you so fucking stupid you can't grasp that it was done on the anniversary of September the 11th? Don't tell me that the men in blue are going to side with lice crusted vandals who piss on the dead.

No, they want to give their lives for decency, not pure Evil.

It's not "just a bumper sticker". Like someone else said, it's all done for shock value, to same as walk up to someone grieving in a funeral home and slap them and say it's THEIR fault. It's nothing but lowlife trash kicking the hurting while they're down.

FUCK you, loser.
by me
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 12:25 AM
Are you so fucking stupid you can't grasp that it was done on the anniversary of September the 11th? Don't tell me that the men in blue are going to side with lice crusted vandals who piss on the dead.

No, they want to give their lives for decency, not pure Evil.

It's not "just a bumper sticker". Like someone else said, it's all done for shock value, to same as walk up to someone grieving in a funeral home and slap them and say it's THEIR fault. It's nothing but lowlife trash kicking the hurting while they're down.

FUCK you, loser.
by toasty
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 12:35 AM
"Don't tell me that the men in blue are going to side with lice crusted vandals who piss on the dead."

Boys in blue ain't gonna lift a finger against lice crusted vandals pissing - just like in SF!!!

But they'll sure throw you right-wing powder kegs behind bars after you violently attack people over a BUMPERSTICKER. I'll be glad to have you tucked away in a jail cell where you can't hurt anyone else.

real smart going guys.
by ELF/ALF Hunter
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 12:38 AM
Hey Luddites,

I just found one of your little buddies trying to put a sticker on my car. So I slit his throat, come pick up the worthless little worm before I turn him into mulch for my tulips.
by Olive Oil
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 12:42 AM
First of all, many of these "right-wing nut cases" have produced, cogent, coherent, and -- and most disorienting of all to the fact-impaired and reason-challenged -- WELL INFORMED responses to your adolescent drivel. I have yet to see any of you kids really engage them on the issues.

Second, I don't condone violent threats, but if you really think it's just about a bumper sticker, you are as foolish as your style of argument and mode of expression make you seem.

The digust that your views elicit in me just barely overwhelms the pity I feel for you in your willful ignorance.

But go ahead and vandalize another car with your pathetic little "preaching to the choir" rant. You'll stave off the nagging sense of your own irrelevance and absurdity. And most important of all, your little friends will think you're cool.
by SF-IMC staff
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 12:46 AM
One of you people out there did.

Which one was it?

Why did you do it?

Tell us please. Inquiring minds want to know.
by me
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 12:50 AM
Witness what "tolerance" and moral "relevancy" has now gotten you. You're scared shitless because you little slutfags think you can do ANYthing and nobody will care. Now you see that a limit has been reached, and we're fighting back.

Shake and quake, little commie coward grave pisser. I'm enjoying this.
by haha
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 12:56 AM
Here's some special rolling paper made just for all of you . . . .
by aaron
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 1:02 AM
We didn't post that sticker.
by SF-IMC staff • Saturday September 14, 2002 at 12:46 AM

One of you people out there did.

Which one was it?

Why did you do it?

Tell us please. Inquiring minds want to know.


Sounds like nessie. Has his usual sentence structure and cadence.

by Olive Oil
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 1:07 AM
By the way, if your constitutional and human rights had really been shredded, shouldn't all of you be off in the gulag by now? It must hurt to think that "Herr Ashcroft" doesn't give a damn about your quaint little adolescent posing. Is this a cry for attention?
by truthteller
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 1:23 AM
little shakeytoast don't like mean widdle us raising hell over "just a bumper sticker". Liberals are so intellectually dishonest. It's about the underlying reasons a bunch of slutfags would assault the senses of a grieving people on such a historic anniversary.

But theye're Nazi's. And Nazi's, as we all know, deserve hugs.
by against The Machine
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 2:06 AM
To the ignoramus who thought the Marine had a saw, as in cutting tool.

A SAW is a Squad Automatic Weapon, an M249 Light Machine gun.

Get your insults right, moron.

Go Marines. Go 15 MEU
by against The Machine
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 2:10 AM
To the ignoramus who thought the Marine had a saw, as in cutting tool.

A SAW is a Squad Automatic Weapon, an M249 Light Machine gun.

Get your insults right, moron.

Go Marines. Go 15 MEU
by Raj against The Machine
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 2:23 AM
"Don't tell me that the men in blue are going to side with lice crusted vandals who piss on the dead."

>>Boys in blue ain't gonna lift a finger against lice >>crusted vandals pissing - just like in SF!!!

And you hope they'll throw your opponents into jail?

Oh so now you Lefties LIKE cops? You're all for them now? I thought they were tools of the corrupt MAN? The embodiment of the oppressor?

I wish you guys would get your story straight. Just once.






by Raj against The Machine
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 2:23 AM
"Don't tell me that the men in blue are going to side with lice crusted vandals who piss on the dead."

>>Boys in blue ain't gonna lift a finger against lice >>crusted vandals pissing - just like in SF!!!

And you hope they'll throw your opponents into jail?

Oh so now you Lefties LIKE cops? You're all for them now? I thought they were tools of the corrupt MAN? The embodiment of the oppressor?

I wish you guys would get your story straight. Just once.






by voter
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 2:33 AM
Hey whoever claims this thread was posted on the
Wall Street Journal (and gee the outrageous obscenity
and violence and ignorance posted here make that
almost credible...) I didn't find the link but I did find an
election about the so-called PATRIOT ACT. Guess
what kiddos? It's losing!

http://discussions.wsj.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=wsjvoices&nav=messages&msg=2547

Currently the vast majority of respondents said, to
the question, "Has the Patriot Act been a success?",
"No, the law treads too heavily on civil liberties".

So there is some hope for this straightjacketed
country.

Why do I say that when we supposedly aren't being
rounded up for our beliefs? Because in fact we are
being rounded up and herded and really don't have
a choice in how we live.

I could list many examples but I think you know them,
and if you don't it's a good exercise to pull your heads
out of the muck and consider what kind of world you'd
really like, rather than what world is default thrust
upon you.

Well the problem is you may not have much to go on.
I mean, like the elephant that grows up tethered with
twine, and NEVER FORGETS that (as a little one) the
twine wouldn't break, and so doesn't try...the web of
lies and controls and prohibitions in this "free" country
is so dense that maybe you would need...




by BarCode King
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 2:50 AM
Re: I am Canadian's post, way to go! I hope all the little "activists" doing this stupid shit get their own proper "Fisking"!
by brian
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 2:55 AM
You sorry pieces of shit deserve the ass whippings your free expression of your vileness will earn you.
Fuck you and your whiny ass Pacifica foundation chickenshit ignorance.
Osama bin Laden caused 911 becasue he got people as stupid as you to lie their way into America, go to flight school highjackairplanes and fly them into buildings full of people.
That is much more vile than you pieces of shit, but only be degree, not by kind.
by sheepdog
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 3:00 AM
You speak of ignorance. What is your age-12 maybe? Are you just another two bit weinie sucking vandal who wears all black and goth shit on your face and your eyes are always itching from the lice falling in them?

The link was from Best of the Web, which changes daily. If you'll use any fucking brains at all you'll read through this whole page and find what was said, instead of trying to deflect acknowledgement of your uselessness by posting something irrelevant.

Irrelevant. Now THERE'S a word you haven't copped to yet, right?
by sheepdog
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 3:02 AM
You speak of ignorance. What is your age-12 maybe? Are you just another two bit weinie sucking vandal who wears all black and goth shit on your face and your eyes are always itching from the lice falling in them?

The link was from Best of the Web, which changes daily. If you'll use any fucking brains at all you'll read through this whole page and find what was said, instead of trying to deflect acknowledgement of your uselessness by posting something irrelevant.

Irrelevant. Now THERE'S a word you haven't copped to yet, right?
by brianstien
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 8:00 AM
I hope you all return to the Mother Ship safely, someday. Untill then, lay off the sauce and switch to decaf.
by badanov
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 8:07 AM
The worst day wargaming beats the best day plotting to take people's stuff away from them...
by Jay
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 8:13 AM
<<Patriotism is a disease of the ignorant, kind of like believing in UFOs and palm reading. The American flag is also comparable to the Nazi flag and many people around the planet would agree with this comparison.>>

I'm sure you could find plenty of your fellow brain-dead jackals to agree with you. Given the stupidity of the likes of Chuck and the rampant Jew-hatred of some of the supposed "liberals" here, it's no wonder indymedia.org will never cease to be anything more than a fringe group.
by Jeff Lebowski
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 8:16 AM
First of all, most new cars are very low polluting vehicles and the cars that pollute the most are the older ones that aren't very well maintained.

Since the majority of older cars are owned by the poor who cannot afford a newer, less polluting vehicle, your diatribe is simply a way of oppressing the poor. Your hatred of the poor and their inability to afford a newer, lower emission car is anathema to all of us who are fighting oppression.
by Joe
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 8:17 AM
I am a proud owner of an SUV. It is perfect for hauling my fishing, camping and ski gear. I also commute by train to my job, walking 20 miles a week in the process. If some misguided liberal a**wipe puts one of those stickers on my car believing he/she knows everything, they've got another thing coming, and it could be very painful.
by cp
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 8:33 AM
participates and CO2 are a different story. Global warming, which is occurring (I can set you up with a number of researchers at UC who can more than adequately demonstrate this), and is anthropogenic. There are a lot of natural climate cycles - el nino being the most obvious short term example, but there are a lot of longer term temperature cycles that occur. Some tend to occur on a 10,000 or longer periodicity. In ~1945 the NE pacific average temperature dipped down about 1deg C, and it went up again in the 70s. The lower temperature did not favor sardines, and because we kept fishing them at high rates as described in Steinbeck, they really crashed and the 'cannery row' no longer cans any sardines.
Anyway, no matter how nice of a catalytic converter a new car has which reduces particulates, CO2 is produced at a nice steady rate per gallon of gas consumed. CO2 *does* affect global warming, and CO2 has shot up as a percentage of the earth's atmosphere correlated with the rate of burning of fossil fuels by people: (click on 'current greenhouse gas concentrations) http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/pns/faq.html
by toast
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 8:55 AM
This thread was hilarious - especially that peace/nazi sign . . . I laughed so much last night - thanks! It helps me after a hard day of leftist activism to have a good laugh, no matter how dark the shrub makes the world out to be, there's still troll fanatics to bring laughter to everyone's life.
by joe smith
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 9:05 AM
I would seriously fuck some one up for this, into the trunk they would go and after telling all...then they could go to the hospital if they could crawl there on there own.
by joe smith
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 9:06 AM
I would seriously fuck some one up for this, into the trunk they would go and after telling all...then they could go to the hospital if they could crawl there on there own.
by Brad
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 9:21 AM
Yes! Now there's a good unthinking Liberal idiot for you! When you can't argue your points logically, always refer back to rule #1: All Jews are Evil.

Very good. You should be very proud. And for the record - any of you idiots come near anything I own with some moronic bumper sticker, I'll blow your fucking head off.

"All I am saying, is give my .357 a chance"
by CUNTS (pdxpu [at] abc.org)
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 9:53 AM
Sweet fuck you "indy"media cats are stupid. Ya just don't have a cleean in the world! If it wasn't for your smugness and delusions of intellectual superiority ya'll would have nothing, not an original idea, concept or action. Kill yourselves and REALLY help save the planet!
by good practice
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 10:58 AM
http://www.197thguard.com/
by pril
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 11:45 AM
bigcup11.jpg
If, as americans, we caused 9/11, then you (bumper sticker wielding knights of zilch) are guilty, too... you live here. You are citizens. So don't forget to plaster one on your own ass. It seems you're incapable of discerning between government policy (which is bought by lobbyists and special interest groups) and the personal views of the various citizenry. It doesn't matter what you consume or not- as an American citizen, you are GUILTY.

A group of people are heading to Iraq to be human shields. Get on the plane. Hussein will happily use you. I'm sure the chadors and abbayas will be issued at the airport on arrival for those who need them. You can kiss your shorts and tank tops goodbye, which is too bad, because it's hot as hell over there.

I, too, lost relatives on 9/11. They weren't Jewish. I'm not Jewish. Don't spew that quasi-Aryan crap at me. At this point, it seems you're the fascists, so if you'd like to see a Nazi, you should look in the nearest mirror.

If the talk of war upsets you so much, slapping bumper stickers around is a truly measly protest. It borders on the pathetic.. the "i'm going to hold my breath until someone gives me some candy" style temper tantrum of a spoiled suburban 2-year-old.

by pril
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 11:58 AM
..and when i see anyone putting the "i caused 9/11" stickers on cars in my locale, be aware that i have my own stickers.. and wheat paste hurts when it's pulled off your face after it dries.
by Joe
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 12:13 PM
I am continu amazed by the vast underappreciation of facts by the supporters of the "green left". Unfortunately, I don't have the time here to repudiate the vile remarks made against jews on this forum (Although I believe the crude, apocryphal statements are, in themselves, enough of an argument against the anti-semitic view.). I would like to point out a few things about environmental policy.
First, there is currently no viable economic alternative to oil. I am sure there will be a littany of arguments against this position but it is fact. Solar cells (currently at ~10% effeciency), Geothermal power (only an alternative to those near constant and available geothermal energy sources. i.e. very few), Wind Power (once again, only viable in areas which receive relatively constant gusts of 10+ mph and, interestingly, railed against by the bird loving portion of the left), and other forms of alternative energy (fuel cells are not viable on a large scale. To use concentrated power sources (e.g. petrol) membranes need to be developed which aren't so easily fouled. And as for sodium borohydride as a hydride source...guess what, you can' t mine that chemical. It's formation is endergonic which means energy is required for its production. Energy which will come from coal oil!).
So, what does this all mean. For each of you who bemoans the "wickedness" of oil I suggest you eschew all of its tangible benefits. No more vehicles (that is the easy one), no more home heating, no more medicines, (which require ORGANIC chemicals (from oil) to produce as well as energy to make), and no more internet (electricity is still coal, oil, or nuclear). I have a feeling all of your zeal will be lost as soon as you attempt to make the sacrifices you so easily ask of the rest of us.
Of course, many of you deeply care about the rights of the opressed countries in this world (quite rightly, I believe). You will hurt them the most by suggesting that we abruptly move to alternative energy sources. Nascient economies are primarily focused on developing the inner industrial complex required to supply goods to its people, and eventually for export. These are the very countries which cannot afford to install solar panels on every factory. You will ask, well we can, so why don't we? We don't because that money has to come from somewhere. Where will businesses cut in order to afford such things? Jobs. And if any one of you is ready to say "cut my job so that we can install an as yet undeveloped energy source" I will applaud you. I doubt that will happen.
The goal of less dependence on oil is admirable. I do believe we should invest research dollars into the fuel cell, solar cell, and wind energy sectors but we cannot rush to action and destroy our economy (as well as many others) in the process. The issue of global warming will undoubtedly spring to mind as one might say "But this is an urgent issue, we need to stop it now". The fact is that global warming MAY be an urgent issue. And there is still much debate over the absolute basics of its proposed mechanism. It is a balance of priorities. Do we seriously hamper the ability of our (and other) country's to function or do we propose sensible limitations now and invest in study to see what may come? I submit that the latter is the sensible action.
There is currently an incredible amount of research dollars going into alternative energy sources (in both the private and public sectors) and we have already made great gains. Hopefully, we will be oil free in the future (oil as an energy source that is). That day will not come until the alternative sources of energy have become economically viable either due to an increase in their effeciency or an increase in the cost of oil.
I leave statements mentioned on this board to that benighted section of society more interested in fashionable catch phrases than what is in the social interest. For the rest of you....please consider the consequences of your proposed actions, not just on the U.S., but on the developing world.

by mine, mine, mine
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 12:15 PM
cheapoil.jpg
by twilight youth
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 12:59 PM
this is THEE worst, most infantile, substance-lacking post i have ever read on Indymedia EVER. It makes indymeda look very VERY LAME.

ON ONE HAND_we have the substance free "right wing" making empty threats of violence and sprewing property-ritgheous revenge fantasies.

ON THE OTHER HAND_we have the bight eyed and dim witted "left wing" vandalising private property and then implicating indymedia by attaching the URL to this post! why? NO ONE is going to find this bumper sticker on their precious, shiny property and have a sudden epiphany about human kinds relationship with the environment -they are only going to get mad and log onto the URL posted on the sticker (why oh why would you do that?) and TROLL The posts!

All together now it equals a epic cacaphony of emptiness.

its pointless to even post a literate response to some of these inane and pedantic troll posts.
by Mary Chambers
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 1:06 PM
I am so, so grateful that evolution is in progress.
It would be depressing to think that minds like yours represent the future. I can only pray that you do not donate any genetic material to the next generation.
Long Live Zero Population Growth!
by cp
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 1:08 PM
Windpower is totally viable right now. It's only through a vast amount of illogic practiced by venture capitalists and investors that most of our electricity is not coming from that source.
Electricity is delivered through a grid. For instance, the electricity powering your house in Concord, CA can originate from hydropower in Washington or a plant in southern California. It can be more difficult to set up grids that cross states, but it is still not such a hurdle.
It is really windy in all of North Dakota, and in various windy spots in the Rocky mountains - the average winds are over 10mph. Have you ever been in eastern montana/North Dakota? It took over a day to get through on Greyhound for me. It's really big and empty because farmer's can't make a living, so the land is cheap. Wind turbines already are making a profit and rival or are *cheaper* than coal based or gas based power plants. Here is a map of windpower potential sites.
http://www.eren.doe.gov/windpoweringamerica/images/wherewind800.jpg

No one except green primitivists who are about 1/1000 in the population want people to give up technology, but it is a pretty stupid strawman argument to say that no one can criticize the choices of others as long as they have any impact by themselves. Are we going to say that you can't criticize your neighbor's dumping barrel's of used oil from his oil changing business as long as you own a car that occasionally drips a few spots, or it must be acceptable for your neighbor to park their semitruck in your neighborhood in SF as long as any car is allowed to be parked. People's choices do affect others, and your rights end where they start to conflict with other people's rights.
by Guff Hawkins
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 1:19 PM
Hmm..last time I checked, the US has a high speed train system in the congested northeast (Amtrak Accela) and not only do very few use it, but its also put Amtrak even further in the hole (now 1 Billion dollars). Why should tax payers like me continue to bail Amtrak out, when its clear that transportation by rail will never be popular in the US? As long as they stay bankrupt, and no one rides that train, what company would dare think of trying to build a nationwide high speed rail system. I wholly believe the answer is a switch to electrically powered vehicles, but as long as there is oil to be had and money to be made off of it, the electric car will never be an option. As we've seen, electric cars are available now, but Americans aren't taking to them for several reasons (cost, milage per charge, look, size..) Your average american 9-5 minimum wage earning worker could care less about how much pollution the car generates, and that it runs on oil/gas which is the root of a bunch problems. They will not buy an electric car for 50,000 dollars whe they can just as easily get a gas guzzler that they are familiar with for 8,000 dollars.
by book keeper
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 1:51 PM
track is payed for out of it's own budget. Highways, on the other hand, are subsidized by all taxpayers, even those who use rail.
by Sam B.
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 1:53 PM
One of the effects of 9/11 was to sadly encourage rationally-challenged people like "Truth Bumper" to put on ugly displays of ignorance. Others, like coughcoughkafka, join in the folly, apparently totally unaware of their great distance from reality.

Those Islamist terrorists who committed the atrocities of 9/11 depend on the stupidity of such people while the rational world can only nod our heads in sadness and disgust.

It goes back to education and the failure of people who create such garbage as the more-appropriately named "Bumper Stickers of Nonsense" to learn the ability to think critically.

Nonsense Bumper might understand Mark Twain's words, however, and take his advice:

"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid
than to open it and remove all doubt."




by Mike M. (mm424796 [at] ohio.edu)
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 2:24 PM
Saying an SUV caused 9/11 is about the most ignorant thing I've ever heard. If this is the best way the enviro crowd can get their message across they shouldn't expect to be taken seriously anytime soon.

If anyone on the left had a spine and realized that the real problem in the Middle East is the unelected dictators, someone might start listening. Instead they offer vandalism based on a lie. Grow up and start paying attention to the facts, kids. Oil is just like any other commodity, the problem is with the tyrannical governments that happen to be sitting on top of most of it.
by It's the economy, stupid.
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 2:33 PM
We consume thirty percent of the world's resources. That's why people hate us. We're a tumor on the world's economy.
by teacher
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 2:43 PM
We may use 30% of the resources in the world, but we use those resources more efficiently than anywhere else in the world. Also, with the resources we use we create products (food, technology, drugs, etc.) that the rest of the world uses.

If you live in a city with an industrial center that consumes more resources than the outlying suburbs, it's not fair to state that the center is unfairly using more resources than the suburbs. The center is simply making products that the suburbs use.

Hope that makes since, don't have time to edit.
§?
by Ann
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 3:30 PM
Hey Book_Keeper,

You should check your "facts", Amtrak is a federally run organization that has to have its budget approved by congress. If congress pulled funding (which almost happend a few months ago and the debate was all over the news-I am surprised someone who is obviously as informed as you missed it) Amtrak would cease to exist the next day. Amtrak loses money on almost every ticket they sell, with the exception of the North East corridor that runs from Boston to Washington and there they only break even. This from the Orlando Sentinal:

"With Amtrak bleeding money and threatening to shut down train service, it's time to bite the bullet and admit the truth: Congress's 30-year experiment with nationalized rail service has failed. Since Amtrak's creation in 1970, more than $25 billion in federal tax dollars have gone to subsidize its operations. And those amounts have been increasing over time, with $4.4 billion from 1998 through 2001. Both the Amtrak Reform Council and the Department of Transportation's Inspector General have concluded that Amtrak is not financially sustainable.

Amtrak defenders claim that it's unfair to focus so much attention on Amtrak subsidies. Look at highways and air travel, they say: they get federal dollars, too.

So, let's look carefully. In 2001, highways received $33.5 billion in federal funds. But every dime of that came from federal gasoline taxes paid by drivers who use the highways. This is not a subsidy; it's simply a user tax, paid by highway users to build and maintain the highways the drive on. Likewise, aviation received $12.6 billion in federal funding in 2001. Most of that came from user taxes paid by passengers and private pilots, and was used to pay for air traffic control and airport improvements. The several billion of general-fund monies for aviation went to pay for safety regulation by the FAA; that's how we pay for all the federal safety regulatory agencies."

Alas, another case of a leftist with more attitude than information.....

by pril
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 3:34 PM
$300 Made in Africa Djimbeks to use at your pro-Palestinian rallies.

$45 a piece dyed in Malaysia/sewn in India silk sarongs, to dance in at People's Park

$1500 bike, made in Taiwan, to excuse yourself from feeling guilty for being an American citizen, a reviled consumer of petroleum. (never mind where the rubber on it came from., or the plastics..)

$20 recycled tire sandals, created for you by 10-year olds in Tijuana, for use in hoofing it from protest to protest.

It looks a bit expensive to be a radical leftist. Certainly more than i can afford as a person not affiliated with any political party or division.

And by the way, that's my tax money, that i work for an awful lot, paying your federal school loan and/or grant, and it's me that can't get either one. It pays for the food stamps you get, too. Thanks. Can i come crash on your living room floor for a few months, eat your food, crank up your power bill, take showers on your water bill, so i can save up to be a radical leftist?
by Andrew S. (shoutingboy [at] attbi.com)
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 3:50 PM

..."Having your sorry ass protected by a U.S. Marine whose boots you are unworthy (and probably unable) to shine: Priceless."

Not that they'll ever appreciate it.

Here's another fine sentiment, courtesy of SomethingAwful.com:

ropekid-liberals.jpg"

by None of your business
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 5:26 PM
Coughcoughkafka:
Say what you want about "deathmobiles," etc., but the person who owns and operates an automobile does so in the context of laws that were established before he bought it, with the expectation that they would be observed reciprically. The system of laws, including property rights, were put in place by a democratic system -- that is to say, one where the government is subject to meaningful periodic voting, where there are no significant barriers to exercising one's franchise or forming an organization of like-minded people, and the degree of involvement by any citizen is largely up to him or her. You do not have the right to substitute your own judgment for what we have all agreed to live with. The last time a significant number of Americans decided to overturn by force a system of government in which they were free participants was in 1861. Nice company you keep.
by None of your business
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 5:26 PM
Coughcoughkafka:
Say what you want about "deathmobiles," etc., but the person who owns and operates an automobile does so in the context of laws that were established before he bought it, with the expectation that they would be observed reciprically. The system of laws, including property rights, were put in place by a democratic system -- that is to say, one where the government is subject to meaningful periodic voting, where there are no significant barriers to exercising one's franchise or forming an organization of like-minded people, and the degree of involvement by any citizen is largely up to him or her. You do not have the right to substitute your own judgment for what we have all agreed to live with. The last time a significant number of Americans decided to overturn by force a system of government in which they were free participants was in 1861. Nice company you keep.
by cp
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 5:45 PM
And black people in the south had to wait until 1964 until they were enfranchised, a hundred years after the end of the civil war and the 14th amendment was enacted. That's how well representative democracy works where 1 individual 'represents' nearly half a million people in congress, however they decide to, rather than having easily recallable delegates who are forced to truly represent the democratic majority opinion of their district.
Tell me, do you think that Gray Davis and Simon are the two individuals in this state selected via a free expression of an open democratic process (one person, one vote) to best represent our wishes? If not, how could we change this... oh, maybe we could all pen some letters to them asking them to reform themselves.
by The Left is Wrong
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 5:48 PM
If any of you stupid-ass hippies even think of vandalizing my car with one of these stickers, rest assured that the last thing that you will ever see is the muzzle flash from my .40 Glock 27

Got it?

Consider yourselves warned.
by Patrice May
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 6:08 PM
Civil disobedience is one thing and defacement of private property is another. If you want to protest something do it with your own stuff. Leave mine alone. The end of your free speech stops at the beginning of my bumper. This country was also founded on the right of private property. (Just in case you forgot). Remember my little no-nothing friend, technology will get us away from our dependence on oil. Nothing else. Technology helps us clean up the environment and technology will help us with other sources of power.
by Patrice May
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 6:17 PM
. Maybe you could think a little before you type. That would help a great deal. Please, can't we all just get along? Doesn't everybody deserve to live? Unless, of course they are people you don't agree with. Yes....I see it now....a whole world populated with inbred nitwits. Maybe you should go out into the world and see what life is really like instead of constantly at your computer.
by Patrice May
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 6:18 PM
. Maybe you could think a little before you type. That would help a great deal. Please, can't we all just get along? Doesn't everybody deserve to live? Unless, of course they are people you don't agree with. Yes....I see it now....a whole world populated with inbred nitwits. Maybe you should go out into the world and see what life is really like instead of constantly at your computer.
by Patrice May
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 6:18 PM
. Maybe you could think a little before you type. That would help a great deal. Please, can't we all just get along? Doesn't everybody deserve to live? Unless, of course they are people you don't agree with. Yes....I see it now....a whole world populated with inbred nitwits. Maybe you should go out into the world and see what life is really like instead of constantly at your computer.
by Ramzi Bim-sala-bim
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 6:36 PM
Hey windpower fan:

Guess who opposed to wind farms in places like Pennsylvania and Cape Cod and the Plains states?

Environmentalists! Know why? Because the structures "might" harm a habitat or kill birds...

That's the level that your side has sunk to. The goal is a return to a primitive, non-industrial state...

Your extremists have won. On your side. And, as their lunacies are further exposed, such as in forums like this, their credibility turns to ashes.

It's tough to be on the wrong side of history, ain't it?



by Ramzi Bin-sala-bin
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 6:57 PM
On Congressional recalls and representative democracy.

Say buddy, you want to get rid of a Congressman? It's easy: vote him out.

The idiot who tried, poorly, to claim that black disenfranchisement prior to the Voting Rights Act ipso facto proves that democracy doesn't work, defeats his own argument.

There WAS a voting rights act, you know, legislation. . Who do you think made that happen? Elected representatives.

What you and your ilk really want is fascism. What you want is a form of government in which only "right-thinking" people, i.e., your and your pals, decide things.

Democracy is messy. All kinds of mistakes are made. It even allows nutcases like you to freely speak your mind.

You want to try something else? Very easy. Go to Cuban, speak out publicly, just for fun against the Castro regime. Try it?

Or why not go to Iraq. Stand out in the public square with a sign that says Saddam sucks. Or better yet, stick up posters critical of his secret police.

Don't like representative government? Robert Mugabe is the guy for you!

Think the American system is bad? Why don't try Vietnam or China, see what attacking the government gets you in those countries.

Try practicing a religion, other than Islam, in Saudi Arabia. Or for that matter, see how your girlfriend does when she tries to walk down a street in jeans and a t-shirt.

You want utopia my friend. But as we've seen over and over and over again:

Utopianism=Death

by Sean Roper
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 7:08 PM
This is so very typical of leftists. This is a form of violence in that it could result in destruction of personal property. You people have a long history of violence to try to force your worldview on people. I guess it's time you started the burnings, assaults, and killings that you leftists are so famous for to get people to pay attention to you.

What's the matter, no one listening to you? Could that be because (1) YOU'RE WRONG and (2) PEOPLE REALIZE YOU HAVE LOST GRIP ON REALITY? You are politically irrelevant brainwashed multicultural leftwing appeasers. No wonder no one listens to you.
by Sean Roper
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 7:10 PM
This is so very typical of leftists. This is a form of violence in that it could result in destruction of personal property. You people have a long history of violence to try to force your worldview on people. I guess it's time you started the burnings, assaults, and killings that you leftists are so famous for to get people to pay attention to you.

What's the matter, no one listening to you? Could that be because (1) YOU'RE WRONG and (2) PEOPLE REALIZE YOU HAVE LOST GRIP ON REALITY? You are politically irrelevant brainwashed multicultural leftwing appeasers. No wonder no one listens to you.
by toasty warm
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 7:25 PM
Too many laughs
by toast • Saturday September 14, 2002 at 08:55 AM

This thread was hilarious - especially that peace/nazi sign . . . I laughed so much last night - thanks! It helps me after a hard day of leftist activism to have a good laugh, no matter how dark the shrub makes the world out to be, there's still troll fanatics to bring laughter to everyone's life.
***********************


No matter how EVIL the liberals are, regardless of how dark a world they hope to create, there is silver that lines the clouds. After a hard day of rightist activism I'm laughing my ass off too, knowing that some America hating Traitor has discovered it's utter irrelevancy, realizes nobody wants to give it a hug, and at this moment is splattering it's brains against the wall.
by cp
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 8:07 PM
police_dogs_1963.jpg
The voting rights act was enacted after ten years of civil disobedience including the Montgomery bus boycott. Representatives from the Carolinas which have some of the highest percentages of black population in the country, such as Strom Thurmond, filibustered for days on this issue. It is hardly a good example of successful democracy in action. It is a good illustration of conservative thought and near fascism though. The country would still be like that if progressives hadn't engaged in civil disobedience. An example of enlightened leadership by congressmen elected under the most elementary definition of democracy it was not.
by cp
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 8:20 PM
The fact that representative democracy has been demonstrated to frequently produce undemocratic results does not show that real democracy wouldn't work. It does work in a lot of places in the world. Democracy involves a lot more than the symbolic holding of elections. It requires a free press, a population with access to education, citizens debating issues amongst themselves and frequently informing their delegates how they should vote rather than a few corporate lobbyists as is the present condition, and frequent elections that operate under the principle of one person-one vote, as opposed to the one dollar one vote limited party system that can produce a president who did not receive the most votes. Even russia had 'elections'.
by truthteller
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 8:23 PM
liberals_know_best_500.gif
cp is another lying asswipe, who neglects to mention Kennedy had to be dragged into the Civil Rights Act, that it was the Republicans that pushed it through.

Cute picture of the police dogs, asswipe. I'm sure that you'll remind us all of Bull Connor, a DEMOCRAT.
by ulrike
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 8:24 PM
I don't really buy the idea that the audubon society is behind lack of windpower across the country - first of all, it's not true that wind turbines kill a particularly high number of birds compared to windows or cats, and since when has that been a voting bloc that has ever achieved anything. Do any of the greenies here oppose windmills?
by cp
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 8:32 PM
d'uh, can you quote me using the term 'democrat' above? If you were observant, you'd note that this is not the democratic party or 'liberal' website. I said 'conservative'. You would be in the extreme minority to call Bull Connor anything but a conservative. Under the most traditional definition, he was resisting change and thus was a conservative. Who cares about party affiliation? Party platforms rapidly change from year to year. Is anyone here a democrat or big Kennedy fan here?
Here's something that might pop the mind of linear thinkers here with regards to the war issue - Justin Raimondo - he's a conservative yet... he opposes the war - how can it be? complexity: http://www.antiwar.com/justin/justincol.html
by something REALLY awful
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 8:34 PM
amphetamines.jpg
by aaron
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 9:20 PM
Show the world how a fucking ten cent liberal twists the truth around. Lowlifes like you are Demonrats. Or for a dictator like Nader.


http://www.realchange.org/nader.htm
by Zenobia
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 10:58 PM
September 13, 2002
Increasingly irrelevant
The war on Islamist terrorism has been rough on some activists in the United States. Medea Benjamin, the professional protestor from San Francisco who's against logging, global business, trade, red meat, Willie Brown, electricity, and war, is a case in point. In 2000, Benjamin was mentioned 42 times in the San Francisco Chronicle and 19 times in the San Jose Mercury News, the two local papers most sympathetic to her complaints. She was rolling along with the press mentions in 2001, until the attacks of Sept. 11, with 10 mentions in the Merc before, and none after and 27 in the Chron before and 10 after. This year, she's down to 10 mentions in the Chronicle - 4 in letters - and two in the Merc.

So what's a tree-spiking, debate-disrupting, IMF-hating, media-threatening protest junkie to do in these times? Why, protest the war on terrorism, of course. She's playing this strategy out by demanding reparations for the "thousands" of Afghans killed by the American war machine that liberated their country. She explains in this Op-ed the Merc tastelessly ran on the anniversary (Mercury News | 09/11/2002 | Afghans have been victims, too):


While the U.S. victims are receiving an outpouring of compassion and financial assistance -- an average of $1.5 million per family from the U.S. government and more from private donations -- the Afghan victims receive nothing. Already among the poorest people in the world, many are now absolutely destitute, their homes reduced to rubble, their mental and physical wounds left untreated.

Nothing will bring back the victims of Sept. 11 or the Afghan victims. We can merely mourn their loss and comfort their loved ones. But we can try to stop future losses.

The Bush administration is now contemplating a war in Iraq that the Pentagon calculates could result in more than 10,000 civilian deaths. Let us contemplate the suffering such a war would inflict on the Iraqi people. Let us honor the dead today by saying no to terrorism, but also no to war.


It's all there: inflated casualty figures, denial that the liberation of Afghanistan was good for the Afghan people, and the blanket denunciation of the only method that's ever been effective at removing tyrants from power.

Of course, it's possible that Benjamin isn't cynically manipulating the media to gratify her ego, and that she sincerely believes this crap, but to assume that is to think the worst of her. And the same thing goes for all the people who demanded action against the Taliban when they were in power, but turned the tables and denounced the actions that removed them from power. There's a special place in hell for hypocrites of that magnitude.

Posted by RB on Friday, September 13, 2002
by Zenobia
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 11:11 PM
The Tempest, II.i.143-160

Gonzalo:
I' th' commonwealth I would by contraries
Execute all things; for no kind of traffic
Would I admit; no name of magistrate;
Letters should not be known; riches, poverty,
And use of service none; contract, succession,
Bourn, bound of land, tilth, vineyard, none;
No use of metal, corn, or wine, or oil;
No occupation; all men idle, all;
And women too, but innocent and pure;
No sovereignty.

Sebastian: Yet he would be king on't.
by Round 'em up. Herd 'em off a cliff.
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 11:11 PM
>I think we should smash a few rich skulls in. The world will be a better place without the Right.

You said it, not me. But hey, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
by sheepdog
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 11:16 PM
Don't trash their homes, I'd hate to see all
that fine woodwork ruined. Just treat them like the
useless roach droppings they are; egos such as theirs need the admiration of fools who try to be like them.

by popeye
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 11:16 PM
"temper tantrums for attention increasingly irrelevant" ... gee that sums up our troll perfectly folks. It's funny how he always give himself away with those little slips.
by sheepdog
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 11:18 PM
Don't trash their homes, I'd hate to see all
that fine woodwork ruined. Just treat them like the
useless roach droppings they are; egos such as theirs need the admiration of fools who try to be like them.

by Invisible Man
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 11:32 PM
There IS a tradition of civil disobedience in America -- but many of you sweet wacky kids seem to be laboring under the delusion (one of many you labor under) that "civil disobedience" means if you think a law is unjust you get to break it with impunity. That's not how it works, lads and lasses. Civil disobedience means that you break an unjust law and you face the consequences for your defiance -- and you do so in order to bring attention to the justice of your cause. So I suggest that if you really see your cute little bumper stickers as a form of civil disobedience, you should include your name and address with the sticker, or, better yet, wait until you see the owner of the car approaching before you affix it to the offending car. Since, however, this is probably not really about any cause other than pounding the floor and kicking your feet to remind everyone that you exist, you will continue with your cowardly actions and take refuge in the idea that you are ever so much more enlightened than the rest of us.

And since you all hate America, why do so many of you keep citing the American tradition of civil disobedience as justification for your cause?
by cough cough hack
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 11:42 PM
Did he wait till he saw me before he spewed his cancer fumes into my lungs?

Did he ask my permission?
by The Left is Wrong
Saturday Sep 14th, 2002 11:50 PM
"Personally I think vandalizing other people's property is too wimpy. I think we should smash a few rich skulls in. The world will be a better place without the Right. Why stop with their homes?"

Sure. And while you're at it, I'll introduce you to my good friend Mr. Glock.

Bang!
by toast
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 12:09 AM
Aside from that 'cup of shut the fuck up' graphic and some excellent leftist history, this thread has declined to boredom again, just boys who need to be taken away in white straitjackets by some nice men with syringes.

Now calm down - everyone right-wing from middle america and new york who seems to be on here - the ambulance will be here soon to help you return to reality. When you wake up, everything will be just as you were hoping - corporations will rule the world and the earth will be burnt to a crisp, but not to worry, nuclear winter will keep everything cool and calm (from when Iraq lobbed a patriot missle at israel after the US started bombing and it fired back its nukes, and then pakistan fired some nukes, and then . . . ). No more need to worry about evironmentalism - that'll be a thing of the past, especially those big bad environazis . . . and better still, those BUMPERSTICKERS that drove everyone to take up arms and attempt to kill their fellow citizens - good thing the boys in blue caught you and now you simply wait for the men in white coats to arrive, and everything will be just fine . . . after you wake up.
by truthteller
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 12:17 AM
Once again the little teenybopping puke neglects things. Let's see if it will acknowledge Husseins assholes setting off all those oil wells.

Now please be a nice little weinie licking traitor, and chide us some more.
by asgsada
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 12:24 AM
It's defacement of property. It's fine if half-witted college freshman, acting on their emotions, choose to display their beliefs. But just because everyone calls them out for being stupid and extremist, doesn't give them the right to deface other people's property in some attempt for attention.

At that point in time, they enter the real world and have to deal with the feeling of their own bones breaking.
by Zenobia
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 12:32 AM
Cough Cough -- you missed the point. IF you want to call it civil disobedience, THEN you should make yourself known and face the consequences (you're probably one of those who wants to abolish the SAT; hmmmm, I wonder why). If you don't want to call it civil disobedience, well, nobody's really stopping you (except, God forbid, Mr. Glock) . . . is that what bothers you? That ultimately nobody cares?

Moreover, people do all sorts of things without my permission that I consider much more harmful than driving a car. Should I have the right to invent my own little bumper stickers and stick them on their cars?

Toast -- are you willfully and cynincally not getting the idea that it's not really about bumper stickers? Or perhaps you sincerely don't get it. That could be the case, come to think of it. Your grasp of politics, world history, and human nature suggests you're not the sharpest tool in the shed. Are you an English major?
by reader writes in
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 12:36 AM
WOW what a lot to respond to. Not likely to happen.

"All you folks like to point fingers at each other, but nobudy takes blame or credit for anything."

I know I'm wrong!

by Zenobia
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 12:40 AM
Sorry, that's cynically. Just a typo. Don't want people I just called stupid to think I can't spell.
by itsy bitsy spider
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 1:41 AM
I was finding value in the article posted above, with the title "Going to Work" and attributed to Ann Marlowe. Marlowe began to lose me when too much misinformation had worked its way into the story so I skipped to the end and began reading backwards (maybe because that's how I tend to read this ever engorging thread).

I found this sentence particularly apropos, especially for its use of the term, "BUMP":

"One of the reasons why work is good for the character is that it is, for most of us, frictional: Where it makes us bump into the world is where we need to look at ourselves".

Work comes in many forms, whether one subjects themselves to "[an] economic rationality". Creating and affixing bumper stickers is work, as is the expected but not inevitable act of removing the bumper sticker.

(Actually: that article is so full of **it. It would take a longer article to talk about all the slack reasoning, misuse of diction, and erroneous historical citations.)

However, what gripped me was not the errors, which I let pass by, nor the use of the term "bump", which gave me a smile as the poster likely did not intend its support, but rather the idea that society has evolved to the point of individual effect on mass society becoming culpable.

This, if true, is a very good sign.

But the reality is we've all, always been individually culpable. Societies have worked well or poorly based on the responsibilities taken by individuals.

Perhaps the reason frustrations are more likely to be taken out on individuals today rather than the salient figures of control (e.g., to assasinate the president) is not so much because individual power has increased, but because individual access to authority has decreased. Centralization and military technology help ensure that there is no recourse but to change the behavior of the "common person".

This second notion, while tempered in its fire, still excites me. If individuals begin to see that not only do they have some power, but that the actions of those around them are critical to its full effect and our collective futures, then more painlessly may crumble the corrupt who overlord.

by collard greens
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 1:46 AM
You come across as someone doing the tarantella.
by Alyosha
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 1:55 AM
I found this sentence particularly apropos, especially for its use of the term, "BUMP":

I found this sentence especially ridiculous, especially in its misuse of the term "apropos."

And by the way, creating and affixing bumper stickers is work in the same way that picking my nose is work.
by Alyosha
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 2:05 AM
"However, what gripped me was not the errors, which I let pass by, nor the use of the term "bump", which gave me a smile as the poster likely did not intend its support, but rather the idea that society has evolved to the point of individual effect on mass society becoming culpable"

What the HELL are you talking about? YOU are criticizing a generally well-written, interesting and well-informed article as inaccurate and full of errors? Let me guess -- you're an English major and some professor recently made you read Foucault (who at least can write a sentence) or Laclau and what's -er-name (who can't), and you figured the best way to go about getting your point across was to string a bunch of buzzwords together in the hope that some fellow cretin will think you're an intellectual.

By the way, name just ONE "inaccurate historical citation" from the article. (and why is it an "historical citation" instead of simply a citation?)
by jeff the gimphead (g0d [at] yahoo.com)
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 2:06 AM
Whats red white silver and runs into walls?
A baby with forks in its eyes.
Whats red and white and can't corner in a hallway?
A baby with a javelin through it's head.
Whats the best thing about stapling dead babies to the wall?
Pealing them off.
Where is the fastes baby in the world
Strapped behind a car.
Whats the only thing better than a baby strapped to the bumper of a car?
A baby strapped to the tire and then skidding to a stop.
What more enjoyable than having a baby strapped to your tire while skidding?
Hitting another during the skid.
What is the difference between a baby and a baseball
A baby does not fly as far when you bat it.
What do you get a dead baby for Christmas?
A dead puppy
What's red and goes 'round and 'round?
A dead baby in a blender.
How do you get the baby out of the blender?
Doritos.
What's red, screams, and crawls around in a circle?
A dead baby with one hand nailed to the floor.
How do you save a drowning baby?
Harpoon it.
How do you stop a baby from drowning?
Take your foot off its head.

What's the best part about a dead baby hanging from a ceiling fan?
Hitting it with a baseball bat when it comes around.
What's the difference between a dead baby and a bathtub?
You can't have sex with a bathtub.
What's eighteen inches long, stiff and makes women scream?
Cot death.
What's more fun than finding three dead babies in a trashcan?
Finding one dead baby in three trashcans.
Why did the baby fall off the swing?
Because she had no arms.
what do you call a dead baby hung on a wall?
art.
what do you call a dead baby floating in the sea?
bob.
What is red and creeps up your leg?
An abortion with homesickness.
Whats worst the nailing a dead body to a tree?
nailing it to a dead puppy.
What is the difference between a pile of tires and a pile of dead babies?
I dont have a pile of tires in my garage.

What is the difference between a baby and a pizza?
The pizza doesn't scream when you put it in an oven
What's the difference between a truck load of dead babies and a truck load of bowling balls?
You can't unload bowling balls with a pitchfork.
How do you make a dead baby float?
Add ice cream.
What's brown and in a baby's diaper?
A. Michael Jackson's hand
What goes "POP" i the night
A baby's pelvis.
what do you call a heavily salted dead baby in a frying pan?
dinner.
What's the difference between a dead baby and my girlfriend?
I don't kiss my girlfriend after sex.
How many dead babies can fit in a barrel?
4 1/2
what's worse than 100 dead babies stapled to a tree?
one dead baby stapled to 100 trees

What's the difference between a truckload of bowling balls and a truckload of babies?
Hell, you can just use a pitchfork with the babies...

What's red, white, and black and can't fit through revolving doors?
A baby with a spear through her head.

What's red and bubbly and taps on the window?
A baby in a microwave
Whats red and bubbly and taps on glass every 15 seconds?
A baby in a microwave on a revolving plate.
Whats red and white and spread on my lawn?
A baby hit with a lawnmower
Why did the monkey fall out of the tree?
It died
Why did the baby fall out of the tree?
It was stapled to the monkey
Whats the best thing about stapling dead babies to the wall?
Peeling them off

What is blue and yellow and found at the bottom of a pool?
A baby with slashed floaties.

What is green-black and yellow and found at the bottom of a pool?
The same baby three weeks later.

What's red and yellow and floats on top of the pool?
Floaties with a slashed baby.
What's red and sits in a highchair?
A baby eating razor-blades.

What is red and white and squirms in the corner?
Dead Baby playing with razor blades.

What is red, white and green and sits in a corner?
Same baby 3 weeks later.
What is charred black and smells really bad?
A baby chewing on an extension cord.
What do elephants use for ben-wa balls?
Dead babies.

Why did the baby cross the road?
It was stapled to the chicken.
Why do you stick a baby in the blender feet first?
So you can see the expression on its face.

Why do you stick a baby in the blender face first?
So you can see it's feet pulling up into tiny little fists.
What has 4 legs and one arm?
A Doberman on a children's playground.
What do you do with 4 dead babies and a sheet of glass?
Make a coffee table.
What's red and lies in all four corners of the room?
A baby that's been playing with a chainsaw.
What's red, sits in the front of mirror, and gets smaller and smaller?
A baby combing it's hair with a potato peeler.

Whats red and white and screams?
A peeled baby in a bag of salt.
How many dead babies does it take to change a light bulb?
As many as it takes to make a pile high enough to reach the light bulb with.
What's pink and spits?
A baby in a frying pan.
What is bright blue, pink, and sizzles.
A baby trying to breast feed from an electrical outlet.
What is a sure way to stop a baby from crying?
With an axe.
What's the difference between a baby and a bagel?
You can put a bagel in the toaster. You have to put the baby in the oven.
What is brown and keeps it's juices in?
A baby in an oven bag.
How do you spoil a baby?
Leave it out in the sun.
What's worse than finding a dead baby on your pillow in the morning?
Realizing you were drunk and made love to it the night before.
What's more fun than a barrel of dead babies?
Sticking pins in their eyes.
Why are test tube babies the most beautiful ones
Because they're hand made
What's blue and knocks on glass?
Dead baby in a fishtank
What is more fun than stapling dead babies to the wall?
Pulling them off
How do you find the live baby in a pile of dead ones?
Jab 'em all with a pitchfork.
What is worse than that?
At the bottom of the pile, there was one trying to eat its way out

What is worse than that?
It made it

What is worse than that?
It went back for seconds

Why did the Koala fall out of the tree?
Because it was dead.

Why did the baby fall out of the tree?
Because it was stapled to the koala.
Why did the tree fall over?
The koala never let go.

Why did the kangaroo die?
Because the koala landed on it.
a white baby dies, and get wings. What is he?
An angel

A black baby dies and gets wings. What is he?
A bat

Whats blue and dosen't fit anymore?
a dead epilectic baby.

How do you tell the age of a dead baby?
Cut off its head and count the rings.

What gets shorter & shorter and redder & redder?
A baby combing its hair with a potato peeler.

Why do the doctors always have a bowl of hot water nearby when they deliver babies? So that if the baby dies, they can make some soup.

What's 18 inches long and can make a woman scream?
Stillbirth.

Why did the family take the dead baby along on the cookout?
So they could light it and toast their marshmallows.

Why do people keep dead babies in the rec. room?
They cut off one leg and use it as a ping pong paddle.

How many babies does it take to make a bottle of baby oil?
It depends on how hard you squeeze them.

What's funnier than a dead baby?
A dead baby in a clown costume!

What's blue and flies around the room at high speeds?
A baby with a punctured lung.

How do you turn a baby into a dog?
Pour gas over it and light a match... Woof!

How do you turn a baby into a cat?
Freeze it solid, then run it through a bandsaw... Meeow!

What's pink and goes black with a "hiss!"?
A baby thrown into a furnace.

What do you call two abortions in a bucket?
Blood brothers.

What's black and bobs up and down?
A baby in a toaster.

What's the difference between an abortion and sand?
You can't eat sand.

What's brown and gurgles?
A baby in a casserole.

What goes plop, plop, fizz, fizz?
Twins in an acid bath.

variation;How do you stop a baby falling down a manhole?
Stick a javelin thru it's head.

What's more fun than throwing a baby off the cliff?
Catching it with a pitchfork.

What's pink, flies and squeals?
A baby fired from a catapult.

What do you call the baby when it lands?
Free pizza!!!

What's red and has more brains than the baby you just shot?
The wall behind it.

What's red white and screams?
A pealed baby in a bag of salt.

What's pink and blue and stares at you from the bottom of your freezer?
A baby with an icepick through it's head.

What's white and glows pink?
A dead baby with an electrode up its ass.

What's the difference between a baby and a mars bar?
About 500 calories.

When unloading the dead babies with a pitchfork, how do you know if you get a live one?

Pitchfork quivers.This is really effective while demonstrating it live.

What's red and hangs out of the back of a train?
A miscarriage!
What does a dingo call a baby in a pram?
Meals on wheels.

What's the difference between a baby and a tramploine?
You take your boots of when you jump on a trampoline.

How mant babies does it take to paint a house?
It depends how hard you throw them.

What's the diference between an onion and a dead baby?
You don't cry when you chop up a dead baby.

What do you get when you put a baby in a blander?
Hold on I'll tell you in a second.

How many babies does it take to tile a roof?
It depends on how thin you slice them.

How do you know when an elephant has been in the baby carriage?
By the footprints on the baby's forehead.

What do you call a baby on a stick?
Kebabie.

What do you call a baby on a stick with no kidneys?
Doner Kebabie.

What did the mother say to the baby on a stick that was crying?
Shush, Kebabie!

What is the definition of revenge?
A baby with a dingo in its mouth.

Why did the shark fisherman stop at the abortion clinic?
Dead babies make the best chum.

What's worse (or more fun) than a dead baby in art class?
Pinning it up on the bulletin board.

Why was the dead baby kept in the kitchen drawer?
The family used it to crack nuts.


Whats red white silver and runs into walls?
A baby with forks in its eyes.
Whats red and white and can't corner in a hallway?
A baby with a javelin through it's head.
Whats the best thing about stapling dead babies to the wall?
Pealing them off.
Where is the fastes baby in the world
Strapped behind a car.
Whats the only thing better than a baby strapped to the bumper of a car?
A baby strapped to the tire and then skidding to a stop.
What more enjoyable than having a baby strapped to your tire while skidding?
Hitting another during the skid.
What is the difference between a baby and a baseball
A baby does not fly as far when you bat it.
What do you get a dead baby for Christmas?
A dead puppy
What's red and goes 'round and 'round?
A dead baby in a blender.
How do you get the baby out of the blender?
Doritos.
What's red, screams, and crawls around in a circle?
A dead baby with one hand nailed to the floor.
How do you save a drowning baby?
Harpoon it.
How do you stop a baby from drowning?
Take your foot off its head.

What's the best part about a dead baby hanging from a ceiling fan?
Hitting it with a baseball bat when it comes around.
What's the difference between a dead baby and a bathtub?
You can't have sex with a bathtub.
What's eighteen inches long, stiff and makes women scream?
Cot death.
What's more fun than finding three dead babies in a trashcan?
Finding one dead baby in three trashcans.
Why did the baby fall off the swing?
Because she had no arms.
what do you call a dead baby hung on a wall?
art.
what do you call a dead baby floating in the sea?
bob.
What is red and creeps up your leg?
An abortion with homesickness.
Whats worst the nailing a dead body to a tree?
nailing it to a dead puppy.
What is the difference between a pile of tires and a pile of dead babies?
I dont have a pile of tires in my garage.

What is the difference between a baby and a pizza?
The pizza doesn't scream when you put it in an oven
What's the difference between a truck load of dead babies and a truck load of bowling balls?
You can't unload bowling balls with a pitchfork.
How do you make a dead baby float?
Add ice cream.
What's brown and in a baby's diaper?
A. Michael Jackson's hand
What goes "POP" i the night
A baby's pelvis.
what do you call a heavily salted dead baby in a frying pan?
dinner.
What's the difference between a dead baby and my girlfriend?
I don't kiss my girlfriend after sex.
How many dead babies can fit in a barrel?
4 1/2
what's worse than 100 dead babies stapled to a tree?
one dead baby stapled to 100 trees

What's the difference between a truckload of bowling balls and a truckload of babies?
Hell, you can just use a pitchfork with the babies...

What's red, white, and black and can't fit through revolving doors?
A baby with a spear through her head.

What's red and bubbly and taps on the window?
A baby in a microwave
Whats red and bubbly and taps on glass every 15 seconds?
A baby in a microwave on a revolving plate.
Whats red and white and spread on my lawn?
A baby hit with a lawnmower
Why did the monkey fall out of the tree?
It died
Why did the baby fall out of the tree?
It was stapled to the monkey
Whats the best thing about stapling dead babies to the wall?
Peeling them off

What is blue and yellow and found at the bottom of a pool?
A baby with slashed floaties.

What is green-black and yellow and found at the bottom of a pool?
The same baby three weeks later.

What's red and yellow and floats on top of the pool?
Floaties with a slashed baby.
What's red and sits in a highchair?
A baby eating razor-blades.

What is red and white and squirms in the corner?
Dead Baby playing with razor blades.

What is red, white and green and sits in a corner?
Same baby 3 weeks later.
What is charred black and smells really bad?
A baby chewing on an extension cord.
What do elephants use for ben-wa balls?
Dead babies.

Why did the baby cross the road?
It was stapled to the chicken.
Why do you stick a baby in the blender feet first?
So you can see the expression on its face.

Why do you stick a baby in the blender face first?
So you can see it's feet pulling up into tiny little fists.
What has 4 legs and one arm?
A Doberman on a children's playground.
What do you do with 4 dead babies and a sheet of glass?
Make a coffee table.
What's red and lies in all four corners of the room?
A baby that's been playing with a chainsaw.
What's red, sits in the front of mirror, and gets smaller and smaller?
A baby combing it's hair with a potato peeler.

Whats red and white and screams?
A peeled baby in a bag of salt.
How many dead babies does it take to change a light bulb?
As many as it takes to make a pile high enough to reach the light bulb with.
What's pink and spits?
A baby in a frying pan.
What is bright blue, pink, and sizzles.
A baby trying to breast feed from an electrical outlet.
What is a sure way to stop a baby from crying?
With an axe.
What's the difference between a baby and a bagel?
You can put a bagel in the toaster. You have to put the baby in the oven.
What is brown and keeps it's juices in?
A baby in an oven bag.
How do you spoil a baby?
Leave it out in the sun.
What's worse than finding a dead baby on your pillow in the morning?
Realizing you were drunk and made love to it the night before.
What's more fun than a barrel of dead babies?
Sticking pins in their eyes.
Why are test tube babies the most beautiful ones
Because they're hand made
What's blue and knocks on glass?
Dead baby in a fishtank
What is more fun than stapling dead babies to the wall?
Pulling them off
How do you find the live baby in a pile of dead ones?
Jab 'em all with a pitchfork.
What is worse than that?
At the bottom of the pile, there was one trying to eat its way out

What is worse than that?
It made it

What is worse than that?
It went back for seconds

Why did the Koala fall out of the tree?
Because it was dead.

Why did the baby fall out of the tree?
Because it was stapled to the koala.
Why did the tree fall over?
The koala never let go.

Why did the kangaroo die?
Because the koala landed on it.
a white baby dies, and get wings. What is he?
An angel

A black baby dies and gets wings. What is he?
A bat

Whats blue and dosen't fit anymore?
a dead epilectic baby.

How do you tell the age of a dead baby?
Cut off its head and count the rings.

What gets shorter & shorter and redder & redder?
A baby combing its hair with a potato peeler.

Why do the doctors always have a bowl of hot water nearby when they deliver babies? So that if the baby dies, they can make some soup.

What's 18 inches long and can make a woman scream?
Stillbirth.

Why did the family take the dead baby along on the cookout?
So they could light it and toast their marshmallows.

Why do people keep dead babies in the rec. room?
They cut off one leg and use it as a ping pong paddle.

How many babies does it take to make a bottle of baby oil?
It depends on how hard you squeeze them.

What's funnier than a dead baby?
A dead baby in a clown costume!

What's blue and flies around the room at high speeds?
A baby with a punctured lung.

How do you turn a baby into a dog?
Pour gas over it and light a match... Woof!

How do you turn a baby into a cat?
Freeze it solid, then run it through a bandsaw... Meeow!

What's pink and goes black with a "hiss!"?
A baby thrown into a furnace.

What do you call two abortions in a bucket?
Blood brothers.

What's black and bobs up and down?
A baby in a toaster.

What's the difference between an abortion and sand?
You can't eat sand.

What's brown and gurgles?
A baby in a casserole.

What goes plop, plop, fizz, fizz?
Twins in an acid bath.

variation;How do you stop a baby falling down a manhole?
Stick a javelin thru it's head.

What's more fun than throwing a baby off the cliff?
Catching it with a pitchfork.

What's pink, flies and squeals?
A baby fired from a catapult.

What do you call the baby when it lands?
Free pizza!!!

What's red and has more brains than the baby you just shot?
The wall behind it.

What's red white and screams?
A pealed baby in a bag of salt.

What's pink and blue and stares at you from the bottom of your freezer?
A baby with an icepick through it's head.

What's white and glows pink?
A dead baby with an electrode up its ass.

What's the difference between a baby and a mars bar?
About 500 calories.

When unloading the dead babies with a pitchfork, how do you know if you get a live one?

Pitchfork quivers.This is really effective while demonstrating it live.

What's red and hangs out of the back of a train?
A miscarriage!
What does a dingo call a baby in a pram?
Meals on wheels.

What's the difference between a baby and a tramploine?
You take your boots of when you jump on a trampoline.

How mant babies does it take to paint a house?
It depends how hard you throw them.

What's the diference between an onion and a dead baby?
You don't cry when you chop up a dead baby.

What do you get when you put a baby in a blander?
Hold on I'll tell you in a second.

How many babies does it take to tile a roof?
It depends on how thin you slice them.

How do you know when an elephant has been in the baby carriage?
By the footprints on the baby's forehead.

What do you call a baby on a stick?
Kebabie.

What do you call a baby on a stick with no kidneys?
Doner Kebabie.

What did the mother say to the baby on a stick that was crying?
Shush, Kebabie!

What is the definition of revenge?
A baby with a dingo in its mouth.

Why did the shark fisherman stop at the abortion clinic?
Dead babies make the best chum.

What's worse (or more fun) than a dead baby in art class?
Pinning it up on the bulletin board.

Why was the dead baby kept in the kitchen drawer?
The family used it to crack nuts.


Whats red white silver and runs into walls?
A baby with forks in its eyes.
Whats red and white and can't corner in a hallway?
A baby with a javelin through it's head.
Whats the best thing about stapling dead babies to the wall?
Pealing them off.
Where is the fastes baby in the world
Strapped behind a car.
Whats the only thing better than a baby strapped to the bumper of a car?
A baby strapped to the tire and then skidding to a stop.
What more enjoyable than having a baby strapped to your tire while skidding?
Hitting another during the skid.
What is the difference between a baby and a baseball
A baby does not fly as far when you bat it.
What do you get a dead baby for Christmas?
A dead puppy
What's red and goes 'round and 'round?
A dead baby in a blender.
How do you get the baby out of the blender?
Doritos.
What's red, screams, and crawls around in a circle?
A dead baby with one hand nailed to the floor.
How do you save a drowning baby?
Harpoon it.
How do you stop a baby from drowning?
Take your foot off its head.

What's the best part about a dead baby hanging from a ceiling fan?
Hitting it with a baseball bat when it comes around.
What's the difference between a dead baby and a bathtub?
You can't have sex with a bathtub.
What's eighteen inches long, stiff and makes women scream?
Cot death.
What's more fun than finding three dead babies in a trashcan?
Finding one dead baby in three trashcans.
Why did the baby fall off the swing?
Because she had no arms.
what do you call a dead baby hung on a wall?
art.
what do you call a dead baby floating in the sea?
bob.
What is red and creeps up your leg?
An abortion with homesickness.
Whats worst the nailing a dead body to a tree?
nailing it to a dead puppy.
What is the difference between a pile of tires and a pile of dead babies?
I dont have a pile of tires in my garage.

What is the difference between a baby and a pizza?
The pizza doesn't scream when you put it in an oven
What's the difference between a truck load of dead babies and a truck load of bowling balls?
You can't unload bowling balls with a pitchfork.
How do you make a dead baby float?
Add ice cream.
What's brown and in a baby's diaper?
A. Michael Jackson's hand
What goes "POP" i the night
A baby's pelvis.
what do you call a heavily salted dead baby in a frying pan?
dinner.
What's the difference between a dead baby and my girlfriend?
I don't kiss my girlfriend after sex.
How many dead babies can fit in a barrel?
4 1/2
what's worse than 100 dead babies stapled to a tree?
one dead baby stapled to 100 trees

What's the difference between a truckload of bowling balls and a truckload of babies?
Hell, you can just use a pitchfork with the babies...

What's red, white, and black and can't fit through revolving doors?
A baby with a spear through her head.

What's red and bubbly and taps on the window?
A baby in a microwave
Whats red and bubbly and taps on glass every 15 seconds?
A baby in a microwave on a revolving plate.
Whats red and white and spread on my lawn?
A baby hit with a lawnmower
Why did the monkey fall out of the tree?
It died
Why did the baby fall out of the tree?
It was stapled to the monkey
Whats the best thing about stapling dead babies to the wall?
Peeling them off

What is blue and yellow and found at the bottom of a pool?
A baby with slashed floaties.

What is green-black and yellow and found at the bottom of a pool?
The same baby three weeks later.

What's red and yellow and floats on top of the pool?
Floaties with a slashed baby.
What's red and sits in a highchair?
A baby eating razor-blades.

What is red and white and squirms in the corner?
Dead Baby playing with razor blades.

What is red, white and green and sits in a corner?
Same baby 3 weeks later.
What is charred black and smells really bad?
A baby chewing on an extension cord.
What do elephants use for ben-wa balls?
Dead babies.

Why did the baby cross the road?
It was stapled to the chicken.
Why do you stick a baby in the blender feet first?
So you can see the expression on its face.

Why do you stick a baby in the blender face first?
So you can see it's feet pulling up into tiny little fists.
What has 4 legs and one arm?
A Doberman on a children's playground.
What do you do with 4 dead babies and a sheet of glass?
Make a coffee table.
What's red and lies in all four corners of the room?
A baby that's been playing with a chainsaw.
What's red, sits in the front of mirror, and gets smaller and smaller?
A baby combing it's hair with a potato peeler.

Whats red and white and screams?
A peeled baby in a bag of salt.
How many dead babies does it take to change a light bulb?
As many as it takes to make a pile high enough to reach the light bulb with.
What's pink and spits?
A baby in a frying pan.
What is bright blue, pink, and sizzles.
A baby trying to breast feed from an electrical outlet.
What is a sure way to stop a baby from crying?
With an axe.
What's the difference between a baby and a bagel?
You can put a bagel in the toaster. You have to put the baby in the oven.
What is brown and keeps it's juices in?
A baby in an oven bag.
How do you spoil a baby?
Leave it out in the sun.
What's worse than finding a dead baby on your pillow in the morning?
Realizing you were drunk and made love to it the night before.
What's more fun than a barrel of dead babies?
Sticking pins in their eyes.
Why are test tube babies the most beautiful ones
Because they're hand made
What's blue and knocks on glass?
Dead baby in a fishtank
What is more fun than stapling dead babies to the wall?
Pulling them off
How do you find the live baby in a pile of dead ones?
Jab 'em all with a pitchfork.
What is worse than that?
At the bottom of the pile, there was one trying to eat its way out

What is worse than that?
It made it

What is worse than that?
It went back for seconds

Why did the Koala fall out of the tree?
Because it was dead.

Why did the baby fall out of the tree?
Because it was stapled to the koala.
Why did the tree fall over?
The koala never let go.

Why did the kangaroo die?
Because the koala landed on it.
a white baby dies, and get wings. What is he?
An angel

A black baby dies and gets wings. What is he?
A bat

Whats blue and dosen't fit anymore?
a dead epilectic baby.

How do you tell the age of a dead baby?
Cut off its head and count the rings.

What gets shorter & shorter and redder & redder?
A baby combing its hair with a potato peeler.

Why do the doctors always have a bowl of hot water nearby when they deliver babies? So that if the baby dies, they can make some soup.

What's 18 inches long and can make a woman scream?
Stillbirth.

Why did the family take the dead baby along on the cookout?
So they could light it and toast their marshmallows.

Why do people keep dead babies in the rec. room?
They cut off one leg and use it as a ping pong paddle.

How many babies does it take to make a bottle of baby oil?
It depends on how hard you squeeze them.

What's funnier than a dead baby?
A dead baby in a clown costume!

What's blue and flies around the room at high speeds?
A baby with a punctured lung.

How do you turn a baby into a dog?
Pour gas over it and light a match... Woof!

How do you turn a baby into a cat?
Freeze it solid, then run it through a bandsaw... Meeow!

What's pink and goes black with a "hiss!"?
A baby thrown into a furnace.

What do you call two abortions in a bucket?
Blood brothers.

What's black and bobs up and down?
A baby in a toaster.

What's the difference between an abortion and sand?
You can't eat sand.

What's brown and gurgles?
A baby in a casserole.

What goes plop, plop, fizz, fizz?
Twins in an acid bath.

variation;How do you stop a baby falling down a manhole?
Stick a javelin thru it's head.

What's more fun than throwing a baby off the cliff?
Catching it with a pitchfork.

What's pink, flies and squeals?
A baby fired from a catapult.

What do you call the baby when it lands?
Free pizza!!!

What's red and has more brains than the baby you just shot?
The wall behind it.

What's red white and screams?
A pealed baby in a bag of salt.

What's pink and blue and stares at you from the bottom of your freezer?
A baby with an icepick through it's head.

What's white and glows pink?
A dead baby with an electrode up its ass.

What's the difference between a baby and a mars bar?
About 500 calories.

When unloading the dead babies with a pitchfork, how do you know if you get a live one?

Pitchfork quivers.This is really effective while demonstrating it live.

What's red and hangs out of the back of a train?
A miscarriage!
What does a dingo call a baby in a pram?
Meals on wheels.

What's the difference between a baby and a tramploine?
You take your boots of when you jump on a trampoline.

How mant babies does it take to paint a house?
It depends how hard you throw them.

What's the diference between an onion and a dead baby?
You don't cry when you chop up a dead baby.

What do you get when you put a baby in a blander?
Hold on I'll tell you in a second.

How many babies does it take to tile a roof?
It depends on how thin you slice them.

How do you know when an elephant has been in the baby carriage?
By the footprints on the baby's forehead.

What do you call a baby on a stick?
Kebabie.

What do you call a baby on a stick with no kidneys?
Doner Kebabie.

What did the mother say to the baby on a stick that was crying?
Shush, Kebabie!

What is the definition of revenge?
A baby with a dingo in its mouth.

Why did the shark fisherman stop at the abortion clinic?
Dead babies make the best chum.

What's worse (or more fun) than a dead baby in art class?
Pinning it up on the bulletin board.

Why was the dead baby kept in the kitchen drawer?
The family used it to crack nuts.

Whats red white silver and runs into walls?
A baby with forks in its eyes.
Whats red and white and can't corner in a hallway?
A baby with a javelin through it's head.
Whats the best thing about stapling dead babies to the wall?
Pealing them off.
Where is the fastes baby in the world
Strapped behind a car.
Whats the only thing better than a baby strapped to the bumper of a car?
A baby strapped to the tire and then skidding to a stop.
What more enjoyable than having a baby strapped to your tire while skidding?
Hitting another during the skid.
What is the difference between a baby and a baseball
A baby does not fly as far when you bat it.
What do you get a dead baby for Christmas?
A dead puppy
What's red and goes 'round and 'round?
A dead baby in a blender.
How do you get the baby out of the blender?
Doritos.
What's red, screams, and crawls around in a circle?
A dead baby with one hand nailed to the floor.
How do you save a drowning baby?
Harpoon it.
How do you stop a baby from drowning?
Take your foot off its head.

What's the best part about a dead baby hanging from a ceiling fan?
Hitting it with a baseball bat when it comes around.
What's the difference between a dead baby and a bathtub?
You can't have sex with a bathtub.
What's eighteen inches long, stiff and makes women scream?
Cot death.
What's more fun than finding three dead babies in a trashcan?
Finding one dead baby in three trashcans.
Why did the baby fall off the swing?
Because she had no arms.
what do you call a dead baby hung on a wall?
art.
what do you call a dead baby floating in the sea?
bob.
What is red and creeps up your leg?
An abortion with homesickness.
Whats worst the nailing a dead body to a tree?
nailing it to a dead puppy.
What is the difference between a pile of tires and a pile of dead babies?
I dont have a pile of tires in my garage.

What is the difference between a baby and a pizza?
The pizza doesn't scream when you put it in an oven
What's the difference between a truck load of dead babies and a truck load of bowling balls?
You can't unload bowling balls with a pitchfork.
How do you make a dead baby float?
Add ice cream.
What's brown and in a baby's diaper?
A. Michael Jackson's hand
What goes "POP" i the night
A baby's pelvis.
what do you call a heavily salted dead baby in a frying pan?
dinner.
What's the difference between a dead baby and my girlfriend?
I don't kiss my girlfriend after sex.
How many dead babies can fit in a barrel?
4 1/2
what's worse than 100 dead babies stapled to a tree?
one dead baby stapled to 100 trees

What's the difference between a truckload of bowling balls and a truckload of babies?
Hell, you can just use a pitchfork with the babies...

What's red, white, and black and can't fit through revolving doors?
A baby with a spear through her head.

What's red and bubbly and taps on the window?
A baby in a microwave
Whats red and bubbly and taps on glass every 15 seconds?
A baby in a microwave on a revolving plate.
Whats red and white and spread on my lawn?
A baby hit with a lawnmower
Why did the monkey fall out of the tree?
It died
Why did the baby fall out of the tree?
It was stapled to the monkey
Whats the best thing about stapling dead babies to the wall?
Peeling them off

What is blue and yellow and found at the bottom of a pool?
A baby with slashed floaties.

What is green-black and yellow and found at the bottom of a pool?
The same baby three weeks later.

What's red and yellow and floats on top of the pool?
Floaties with a slashed baby.
What's red and sits in a highchair?
A baby eating razor-blades.

What is red and white and squirms in the corner?
Dead Baby playing with razor blades.

What is red, white and green and sits in a corner?
Same baby 3 weeks later.
What is charred black and smells really bad?
A baby chewing on an extension cord.
What do elephants use for ben-wa balls?
Dead babies.

Why did the baby cross the road?
It was stapled to the chicken.
Why do you stick a baby in the blender feet first?
So you can see the expression on its face.

Why do you stick a baby in the blender face first?
So you can see it's feet pulling up into tiny little fists.
What has 4 legs and one arm?
A Doberman on a children's playground.
What do you do with 4 dead babies and a sheet of glass?
Make a coffee table.
What's red and lies in all four corners of the room?
A baby that's been playing with a chainsaw.
What's red, sits in the front of mirror, and gets smaller and smaller?
A baby combing it's hair with a potato peeler.

Whats red and white and screams?
A peeled baby in a bag of salt.
How many dead babies does it take to change a light bulb?
As many as it takes to make a pile high enough to reach the light bulb with.
What's pink and spits?
A baby in a frying pan.
What is bright blue, pink, and sizzles.
A baby trying to breast feed from an electrical outlet.
What is a sure way to stop a baby from crying?
With an axe.
What's the difference between a baby and a bagel?
You can put a bagel in the toaster. You have to put the baby in the oven.
What is brown and keeps it's juices in?
A baby in an oven bag.
How do you spoil a baby?
Leave it out in the sun.
What's worse than finding a dead baby on your pillow in the morning?
Realizing you were drunk and made love to it the night before.
What's more fun than a barrel of dead babies?
Sticking pins in their eyes.
Why are test tube babies the most beautiful ones
Because they're hand made
What's blue and knocks on glass?
Dead baby in a fishtank
What is more fun than stapling dead babies to the wall?
Pulling them off
How do you find the live baby in a pile of dead ones?
Jab 'em all with a pitchfork.
What is worse than that?
At the bottom of the pile, there was one trying to eat its way out

What is worse than that?
It made it

What is worse than that?
It went back for seconds

Why did the Koala fall out of the tree?
Because it was dead.

Why did the baby fall out of the tree?
Because it was stapled to the koala.
Why did the tree fall over?
The koala never let go.

Why did the kangaroo die?
Because the koala landed on it.
a white baby dies, and get wings. What is he?
An angel

A black baby dies and gets wings. What is he?
A bat

Whats blue and dosen't fit anymore?
a dead epilectic baby.

How do you tell the age of a dead baby?
Cut off its head and count the rings.

What gets shorter & shorter and redder & redder?
A baby combing its hair with a potato peeler.

Why do the doctors always have a bowl of hot water nearby when they deliver babies? So that if the baby dies, they can make some soup.

What's 18 inches long and can make a woman scream?
Stillbirth.

Why did the family take the dead baby along on the cookout?
So they could light it and toast their marshmallows.

Why do people keep dead babies in the rec. room?
They cut off one leg and use it as a ping pong paddle.

How many babies does it take to make a bottle of baby oil?
It depends on how hard you squeeze them.

What's funnier than a dead baby?
A dead baby in a clown costume!

What's blue and flies around the room at high speeds?
A baby with a punctured lung.

How do you turn a baby into a dog?
Pour gas over it and light a match... Woof!

How do you turn a baby into a cat?
Freeze it solid, then run it through a bandsaw... Meeow!

What's pink and goes black with a "hiss!"?
A baby thrown into a furnace.

What do you call two abortions in a bucket?
Blood brothers.

What's black and bobs up and down?
A baby in a toaster.

What's the difference between an abortion and sand?
You can't eat sand.

What's brown and gurgles?
A baby in a casserole.

What goes plop, plop, fizz, fizz?
Twins in an acid bath.

variation;How do you stop a baby falling down a manhole?
Stick a javelin thru it's head.

What's more fun than throwing a baby off the cliff?
Catching it with a pitchfork.

What's pink, flies and squeals?
A baby fired from a catapult.

What do you call the baby when it lands?
Free pizza!!!

What's red and has more brains than the baby you just shot?
The wall behind it.

What's red white and screams?
A pealed baby in a bag of salt.

What's pink and blue and stares at you from the bottom of your freezer?
A baby with an icepick through it's head.

What's white and glows pink?
A dead baby with an electrode up its ass.

What's the difference between a baby and a mars bar?
About 500 calories.

When unloading the dead babies with a pitchfork, how do you know if you get a live one?

Pitchfork quivers.This is really effective while demonstrating it live.

What's red and hangs out of the back of a train?
A miscarriage!
What does a dingo call a baby in a pram?
Meals on wheels.

What's the difference between a baby and a tramploine?
You take your boots of when you jump on a trampoline.

How mant babies does it take to paint a house?
It depends how hard you throw them.

What's the diference between an onion and a dead baby?
You don't cry when you chop up a dead baby.

What do you get when you put a baby in a blander?
Hold on I'll tell you in a second.

How many babies does it take to tile a roof?
It depends on how thin you slice them.

How do you know when an elephant has been in the baby carriage?
By the footprints on the baby's forehead.

What do you call a baby on a stick?
Kebabie.

What do you call a baby on a stick with no kidneys?
Doner Kebabie.

What did the mother say to the baby on a stick that was crying?
Shush, Kebabie!

What is the definition of revenge?
A baby with a dingo in its mouth.

Why did the shark fisherman stop at the abortion clinic?
Dead babies make the best chum.

What's worse (or more fun) than a dead baby in art class?
Pinning it up on the bulletin board.

Why was the dead baby kept in the kitchen drawer?
The family used it to crack nuts.

Whats red white silver and runs into walls?
A baby with forks in its eyes.
Whats red and white and can't corner in a hallway?
A baby with a javelin through it's head.
Whats the best thing about stapling dead babies to the wall?
Pealing them off.
Where is the fastes baby in the world
Strapped behind a car.
Whats the only thing better than a baby strapped to the bumper of a car?
A baby strapped to the tire and then skidding to a stop.
What more enjoyable than having a baby strapped to your tire while skidding?
Hitting another during the skid.
What is the difference between a baby and a baseball
A baby does not fly as far when you bat it.
What do you get a dead baby for Christmas?
A dead puppy
What's red and goes 'round and 'round?
A dead baby in a blender.
How do you get the baby out of the blender?
Doritos.
What's red, screams, and crawls around in a circle?
A dead baby with one hand nailed to the floor.
How do you save a drowning baby?
Harpoon it.
How do you stop a baby from drowning?
Take your foot off its head.

What's the best part about a dead baby hanging from a ceiling fan?
Hitting it with a baseball bat when it comes around.
What's the difference between a dead baby and a bathtub?
You can't have sex with a bathtub.
What's eighteen inches long, stiff and makes women scream?
Cot death.
What's more fun than finding three dead babies in a trashcan?
Finding one dead baby in three trashcans.
Why did the baby fall off the swing?
Because she had no arms.
what do you call a dead baby hung on a wall?
art.
what do you call a dead baby floating in the sea?
bob.
What is red and creeps up your leg?
An abortion with homesickness.
Whats worst the nailing a dead body to a tree?
nailing it to a dead puppy.
What is the difference between a pile of tires and a pile of dead babies?
I dont have a pile of tires in my garage.

What is the difference between a baby and a pizza?
The pizza doesn't scream when you put it in an oven
What's the difference between a truck load of dead babies and a truck load of bowling balls?
You can't unload bowling balls with a pitchfork.
How do you make a dead baby float?
Add ice cream.
What's brown and in a baby's diaper?
A. Michael Jackson's hand
What goes "POP" i the night
A baby's pelvis.
what do you call a heavily salted dead baby in a frying pan?
dinner.
What's the difference between a dead baby and my girlfriend?
I don't kiss my girlfriend after sex.
How many dead babies can fit in a barrel?
4 1/2
what's worse than 100 dead babies stapled to a tree?
one dead baby stapled to 100 trees

What's the difference between a truckload of bowling balls and a truckload of babies?
Hell, you can just use a pitchfork with the babies...

What's red, white, and black and can't fit through revolving doors?
A baby with a spear through her head.

What's red and bubbly and taps on the window?
A baby in a microwave
Whats red and bubbly and taps on glass every 15 seconds?
A baby in a microwave on a revolving plate.
Whats red and white and spread on my lawn?
A baby hit with a lawnmower
Why did the monkey fall out of the tree?
It died
Why did the baby fall out of the tree?
It was stapled to the monkey
Whats the best thing about stapling dead babies to the wall?
Peeling them off

What is blue and yellow and found at the bottom of a pool?
A baby with slashed floaties.

What is green-black and yellow and found at the bottom of a pool?
The same baby three weeks later.

What's red and yellow and floats on top of the pool?
Floaties with a slashed baby.
What's red and sits in a highchair?
A baby eating razor-blades.

What is red and white and squirms in the corner?
Dead Baby playing with razor blades.

What is red, white and green and sits in a corner?
Same baby 3 weeks later.
What is charred black and smells really bad?
A baby chewing on an extension cord.
What do elephants use for ben-wa balls?
Dead babies.

Why did the baby cross the road?
It was stapled to the chicken.
Why do you stick a baby in the blender feet first?
So you can see the expression on its face.

Why do you stick a baby in the blender face first?
So you can see it's feet pulling up into tiny little fists.
What has 4 legs and one arm?
A Doberman on a children's playground.
What do you do with 4 dead babies and a sheet of glass?
Make a coffee table.
What's red and lies in all four corners of the room?
A baby that's been playing with a chainsaw.
What's red, sits in the front of mirror, and gets smaller and smaller?
A baby combing it's hair with a potato peeler.

Whats red and white and screams?
A peeled baby in a bag of salt.
How many dead babies does it take to change a light bulb?
As many as it takes to make a pile high enough to reach the light bulb with.
What's pink and spits?
A baby in a frying pan.
What is bright blue, pink, and sizzles.
A baby trying to breast feed from an electrical outlet.
What is a sure way to stop a baby from crying?
With an axe.
What's the difference between a baby and a bagel?
You can put a bagel in the toaster. You have to put the baby in the oven.
What is brown and keeps it's juices in?
A baby in an oven bag.
How do you spoil a baby?
Leave it out in the sun.
What's worse than finding a dead baby on your pillow in the morning?
Realizing you were drunk and made love to it the night before.
What's more fun than a barrel of dead babies?
Sticking pins in their eyes.
Why are test tube babies the most beautiful ones
Because they're hand made
What's blue and knocks on glass?
Dead baby in a fishtank
What is more fun than stapling dead babies to the wall?
Pulling them off
How do you find the live baby in a pile of dead ones?
Jab 'em all with a pitchfork.
What is worse than that?
At the bottom of the pile, there was one trying to eat its way out

What is worse than that?
It made it

What is worse than that?
It went back for seconds

Why did the Koala fall out of the tree?
Because it was dead.

Why did the baby fall out of the tree?
Because it was stapled to the koala.
Why did the tree fall over?
The koala never let go.

Why did the kangaroo die?
Because the koala landed on it.
a white baby dies, and get wings. What is he?
An angel

A black baby dies and gets wings. What is he?
A bat

Whats blue and dosen't fit anymore?
a dead epilectic baby.

How do you tell the age of a dead baby?
Cut off its head and count the rings.

What gets shorter & shorter and redder & redder?
A baby combing its hair with a potato peeler.

Why do the doctors always have a bowl of hot water nearby when they deliver babies? So that if the baby dies, they can make some soup.

What's 18 inches long and can make a woman scream?
Stillbirth.

Why did the family take the dead baby along on the cookout?
So they could light it and toast their marshmallows.

Why do people keep dead babies in the rec. room?
They cut off one leg and use it as a ping pong paddle.

How many babies does it take to make a bottle of baby oil?
It depends on how hard you squeeze them.

What's funnier than a dead baby?
A dead baby in a clown costume!

What's blue and flies around the room at high speeds?
A baby with a punctured lung.

How do you turn a baby into a dog?
Pour gas over it and light a match... Woof!

How do you turn a baby into a cat?
Freeze it solid, then run it through a bandsaw... Meeow!

What's pink and goes black with a "hiss!"?
A baby thrown into a furnace.

What do you call two abortions in a bucket?
Blood brothers.

What's black and bobs up and down?
A baby in a toaster.

What's the difference between an abortion and sand?
You can't eat sand.

What's brown and gurgles?
A baby in a casserole.

What goes plop, plop, fizz, fizz?
Twins in an acid bath.

variation;How do you stop a baby falling down a manhole?
Stick a javelin thru it's head.

What's more fun than throwing a baby off the cliff?
Catching it with a pitchfork.

What's pink, flies and squeals?
A baby fired from a catapult.

What do you call the baby when it lands?
Free pizza!!!

What's red and has more brains than the baby you just shot?
The wall behind it.

What's red white and screams?
A pealed baby in a bag of salt.

What's pink and blue and stares at you from the bottom of your freezer?
A baby with an icepick through it's head.

What's white and glows pink?
A dead baby with an electrode up its ass.

What's the difference between a baby and a mars bar?
About 500 calories.

When unloading the dead babies with a pitchfork, how do you know if you get a live one?

Pitchfork quivers.This is really effective while demonstrating it live.

What's red and hangs out of the back of a train?
A miscarriage!
What does a dingo call a baby in a pram?
Meals on wheels.

What's the difference between a baby and a tramploine?
You take your boots of when you jump on a trampoline.

How mant babies does it take to paint a house?
It depends how hard you throw them.

What's the diference between an onion and a dead baby?
You don't cry when you chop up a dead baby.

What do you get when you put a baby in a blander?
Hold on I'll tell you in a second.

How many babies does it take to tile a roof?
It depends on how thin you slice them.

How do you know when an elephant has been in the baby carriage?
By the footprints on the baby's forehead.

What do you call a baby on a stick?
Kebabie.

What do you call a baby on a stick with no kidneys?
Doner Kebabie.

What did the mother say to the baby on a stick that was crying?
Shush, Kebabie!

What is the definition of revenge?
A baby with a dingo in its mouth.

Why did the shark fisherman stop at the abortion clinic?
Dead babies make the best chum.

What's worse (or more fun) than a dead baby in art class?
Pinning it up on the bulletin board.

Why was the dead baby kept in the kitchen drawer?
The family used it to crack nuts.

by Alyosha
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 2:12 AM
"However, what gripped me was not the errors, which I let pass by, nor the use of the term "bump", which gave me a smile as the poster likely did not intend its support, but rather the idea that society has evolved to the point of individual effect on mass society becoming culpable"

What the HELL are you talking about? YOU are criticizing a generally well-written, interesting and well-informed article as inaccurate and full of errors? Let me guess -- you're an English major and some professor recently made you read Foucault (who at least can write a sentence) or Laclau and what's -er-name (who can't), and you figured the best way to go about getting your point across was to string a bunch of buzzwords together in the hope that some fellow cretin will think you're an intellectual.

By the way, name just ONE "inaccurate historical citation" from the article. (and why is it an "historical citation" instead of simply a citation?)
by Alyosha
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 2:28 AM
"Perhaps the reason frustrations are more likely to be taken out on individuals today rather than the salient figures of control (e.g., to assasinate the president) is not so much because individual power has increased, but because individual access to authority has decreased. Centralization and military technology help ensure that there is no recourse but to change the behavior of the "common person".

First of all, aren't the "salient figures of control" individuals? Second, I can think of one assasination and two attempted assasinations of American Presidents since 1963, the last attempted assasination occuring in 1981. What is the basis for your claim that people are more likely to "take out their frustrations" on "individuals" than on a President? Are you speaking from the perspective of the last ten seconds?

What is the basis for your claim that individual access to authority has decreased -- and upon what historical time frame are you basing your claim? What do you mean by "centralization"? Are things more "centralized" now than they were in '81? And are you claiming that project Bumper Sticker is a sincere attempt to change the "common person" (whatever that is)?
by Alyosha
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 2:44 AM
"If individuals begin to see that not only do they have some power, but that the actions of those around them are critical to its full effect and our collective futures, then more painlessly may crumble the corrupt who overlord."

Say that again about "the actions of those around them are critical to its full effect and our collective futures"? I'm assuming the "its" refers to "power" . . . oh, never mind, maybe it's a word puzzle. . . or perhaps it's code? You're sending a message to your comrades that the revolution is about to begin? Is that it?

When people begin to understand that the English language has clear rules of grammar and usage, and that words generally have meanings (despite Derrida), then more painlessly may crumble the half-wits who spew.
by hotbuns
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 2:49 AM
yes all are welcome to my veggie dinner.
by Alyosha
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 2:51 AM
You bumper sticker people are simply a bunch of Smerdyakovs.
by Alyosha
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 2:58 AM
Oh, wait a minute, I get it! Your point is that instead of "taking out our frustrations" by assassinating Presidents, we must now resort to sticking bumper stickers on cars? Wow, profound.
by hotbuns
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 3:02 AM
the american comfort level is not very comfortable.not for the rest of the world,not for me.so you cats can watch so much tv.i hope all you fucks die of degenerative diseases,i hope your cars brakes down on the side of the road,in the heat of the afternoon,and the toxins release from your sweat glands.
i hope your frusterations from unpaid bills drive you to destructive acts on yourselves.i hope you trip and fall on your cheating spouse.i hope you meet many nice muslims,i hope they chisle painful paths in your identity.i hope your concrete cracks under your feet.
by Alyosha
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 3:14 AM
Hotbuns, are you from another country or are you just a product of our public education system? Or maybe both?
by Alyosha
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 3:18 AM
Hotbuns,
Wow, that was really powerful! You really rained down the curses upon us. I especially liked the part about cracks in the concrete.

Are you the person who wrote that lame post about individual power and "salient figures of control"? At least you're making more sense now.
by hotbuns
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 3:25 AM
snap out of your nonsense.these governments are not in our best interests.your like the ass that works hard all day for his owner,and given a handful of grass,theres grass everywhere.oh fluffy liberal crap,soft minded over emotional college kids.yeah real soft,taking on an established thick-headed culture,with much more revenue and resources.any real culture is suppressed,but the illusion is given that you have free choice and full spectrum of them.youd all be pissed of if you found out youve been played right?maybe its better that you dont look at this,dont even look at yourself for that matter,just carry on with your nonsense,buy cokes and mc donalds,give these industies all your energy.and if you think your educated by watching the news.you could learn more from the simpsons,no joke.
by veggie dog
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 3:33 AM
im glad i gave you good material to work with,too bad your married,im into that sick shit.
by jperson
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 4:04 AM
From what I can see from the last few posts you can tell there's a few liberal mental midgets that just got back from their Saturday night grope-and-slurp, stoned out of their tiny minds.
by weeping willow
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 4:24 AM
Spider,

I take issue with your description of the current situation. Changing the course of the common person is not so much the answer to "centralization and military control" -- rather, centralization and military control is one of the leading methods of controlling the course of the common person.

When the of planning of our everyday lives is made behind closed doors, by government agencies strongly influenced -- and increasingly combined or even *replaced* by -- private corporations, what hope does one have to change the everyday activities of normal people without changing those forces? But here is a classic catch 22. The stability of this death march/tailspin is its self-limiting design. This system of control did not happen by accident, it was developed and evolved over centuries. The problem is, its creators can't pull the plug. So they point it at a wall. The wall of resource exhaustion, plentary collapse. There *will* be a "shaft gap" -- check Dr. Strangelove for that one.

The system controls the people. The people submit to and support the system.

The best known rhetoric regarding the founding of this country appeals to our poetic hearts that government should be made "by and for the people". Jefferson said the country needs a revolution "every twenty years". We are still taught in some High Schools that "eternal vigilance is the price of liberty".

There is no question that those notions have been severely undermined. We live in an Empire which purports to be a democracy to the ignorant, claims to be a Republic to those of means, yet in fact acts as one would expect the descendants of pirates feigning aristocracy to act. The corporatist globalisation which is spreading across the globe as the cancer it is has nothing to do with freedom and democracy. Rather it is every bit Stalinist in its implementation.

Enter IMC. A forum where through words and pictures, some privileged individuals (us) may sit before their toxic planet killing computers and debate the state of affairs in little snippets, spread out across many little stories.

The real test for me is not where are we getting to someplace in particular, but, is this an effective means of communication and learning?

I had an idea. Perhaps, to assist in the filtering of noise, readers might check a box on posts which have merit to them (the criteria being newsworthiness, not philosophical dispute). Since IMC can't possibly have an editor sit around and do this. If this could reliably be protected against abuse (say, with cookies), perhaps individual readers who do not wish to read 1,000 violent fantasies but rather debate issues, could set their level -- e.g., five readers saying a post is not relevant, 10 readers, 15 readers...). I haven't really thought this idea through completely, but wanted to share it.

This model, if it worked, wouldn't censor anyone, just make it easier for those interested in actual issues and dialogue to find them.

A second idea would be for a filter to be developed which weeds out duplicate posts.

There's the craig's list model, which I do not advocate for, in which any reader (as far as I can tell) may flag a post for checking, which can have the result of obliterating a post indefinitely without notifying the poster.

Someone above ("Olive Oil" with "her" post of "When all else fails, pound the table . . .") suggested that there had been numerous intelligent postings from the "right" which had gone unaddressed. It might be easier to reply to issues if there was less obfuscation. Not that it's an excuse.

To change the topic slightly, I think that many people aren't posting refutations -- not just because it is difficult at this point, with over 300 posts, to reference back to the original poster -- but because many of them are inherently flawed. They may sound good when spoken authoritatively in a "regular joe of experience" voice, but you on inspection they're posted without substantiation and rely on fallacies, misinformation, or false assumptions.

Examples:

a) Environmentalists are to blame for SUV's because they wanted to regulate gas mileage. This is absurd on its face because it makes, amongst many errors, the error of false authority. The automobile companies used loopholes in the law (and many other calculated and dirty tricks) to make a killing (literally and figuratively) from the SUV phenomenon. These companies have been exposed time and again at deliberately creating wasteful and short-lived cars to maximize profits. They've lied repeatedly that they can't do better, and been proven wrong. But as the biggest generator of advertising revenue for the corporate mass media, with major lobbying power, and a huge hold over the people with their ill-gotten monopoly, reigning in their activities is incredibly difficult. Just look at the recent effort to again regulate mileage. A multimillion dollar disinformation campaign through the "heartland" turned the tide. Can you blame environmentalists for that too, for brainwashing middle america?

b) Nature lovers created Hitler. While there is a partial basis for this, Hitler was a big lover of oil and war. He also knew enough to play politics to increase his constituency. While his financial backing came from the ruling class, he appealed to the working class, offering them the hope of being the supreme race to escape their poverty and desperation. He appealed to women for their support -- they loved to be validated and valued by him. And of course he spoke of the wonders of nature, and the liberation they could feel if at one with their (pagan) roots. All the while he was supported by a power structure which was taking away nature, which was increasing sexist division of labor, and had created an even more strict system of social control. Most nature lovers are totally at odds with Hitler's goals and the things he did. Reading his love of the automobile is as eye opening as seeing pictures of him kissing babies held in the air (hmm, reminds me of president Bush).

c) Alternative energy is not viable. Thanks to CP for pointing out that wind is viable. Solar is totally viable if installed as large systems (e.g., by neighborhood), especially if you price over the life of the investment. As oil runs out and energy becomes more and more pricey, the fixed investment in a solar system becomes an incredibly good deal. Special purpose solar (e.g., water heaters) are particularly viable, a new system on the market claims a 3.5 year payback.

d) Amtrak is subsidized so rail cannot work. The history of how the motor and especially automobile interests (e.g., GM, Firestone, Greyhound) trashed this country's once great rail system is beyond the scope of this post. The documentary "Taken for a Ride" by Martha Olson is a good place to start (check your library or the internet). One poster claimed only an East Coast line turns a profit. Actually the Capitol Corridor right here in the SF Bay Area is the most profitable and frequently passes stalled freeway traffic. The subsidy to oil, the car industry, and the airline industries are enormous and go far beyond user fees and direct taxation. The more important thing is that, like Solar, if you think about 50, 30, even 5-10 years from now, when oil is running out, the loss of the interstate rail system (for freight as well as passenger rail) will really hurt this country.

e) Environmentalists don't want medicine. Hmm, yes nobody is ignorant of all the things oil is used for, even the person who poetically said it means blood, violence, terror, rising seas, plastic crap, undrinkable water, cancer, sprawling car culture, death of farmland," and so on. All that is true too. Of course we're totally dependent on oil, and it is running out, and if we waste it all the things that are considered most essential will be gone as well. This reminds me of the medicines lost in the destruction of the amazon rain forest (in part, to extract oil!). But I haven't heard anyone blame environmentalists for that yet.

f) Ceasing the use of oil will hurt developing countries. Gee what a humanitarian flair (making me wonder if the post was a calculated piece of misinformation). Once again, no one -- not even the original message here -- called for a total cessation of oil. Criticising oil and all its problems, definitely. Absolutely stopping all use of oil overnight? Prove it! But if you really want to talk about what oil does to the people of developing countries, you have a lot to learn!!! Oil development has been the primary cause of ethnocide of this century. One example would be a current hotbed oil exploitation, Ecuador. The goal in Ecuador is total extraction in 15 years. The country goes more into debt with each year of oil exploitation, while the ruling class gets more wealthy. Ecuador *imports* its natural gas while the pipelines burn it off. You can't get most oil-based medicines in Ecuador, you can't even find a working phone in most parts of the country. In 15 years when the oil is gone, the people will suffer immensely *because* they've been made dependent on it. And the traditional ways of life, which while different and in some ways much harder, had a lot to say for themselves, will have been eradicated. Oil development has kicked the last of the traditional people off their land by military force, then turned around and made them work naked in the oil pits and waste effluence while cancers and sores grow on their skins and their babies are born deformed. Oil is one of the most toxic substances on earth but it is dumped in their drinking water, their rivers that sustain them, and floods their fields. That's just a small part of the story from *one* country!

g) People who think dependence on foreign oil is bad shouldn't use computers because computers are toxic. Uh....do I really need to address this?

h) IMC is full of liberals. As an instructive exercise, please look up the word, "neoliberal", which is the most important form of liberalism to pay attention to right now. The spirit of the IMC was created in opposing neoliberalism. 'Nuff said!

Edifying and on topic: http://slingshot.tao.ca/displaybi.php?0071024

Granted, liberals are better in that they aren't so blatant. But liberals support the existing order and defer to the neoliberals. Actually, if you take the author's definition of liberalism, "Liberty=Property", most of the people upset about the idea of a message on paper stuck to their cars could be considered liberals...

If you're using the more recent colloquial slur of "liberal" to mean someone with a bleeding heart, who cares about the rights of a broad spectrum of creatures, concepts and causes to the point of unrealism or compulsive absurdity, fine but please make a case that anything of the sort exists in prominence on IMC. When people are protesting for human rights, or the viability of the future, or preserving (conserving, as in being conservative in the true sense) the living world in its richness and beauty and spiritual offerings, all of which are real and not unreasonable, then I think something else indeed is happening and urge you to turn the mirror within and ask why: "Why does it upset me when others want to improve their situation? Why does it rub me the wrong way when people assert their rights? Why do I dislike those 'others' when their existence comes to my attention?" The answers may be elusive but if you can open your mind you may find a key you've been looking for.

i) "Freedom comes with Individual Choice, Property Rights are also guaranteed by the Constitution. If you can't hang with this, then move to China, Cuba, Iraq, Iran, or North Korea where they will issue you a bicycle, a Job, and a place to live." Uh, the Constitution (ironically, based on the native american society of the Iroquois) gives you the right to own anything and choose to do anything? And if you don't like it go where? To a place under attack by this country? "Love it or leave it" has always made me wonder just how ignorant people can get about the incredible scope of the U.S. Corporatist Empire, which is essentially in every country. There is no "leave it", there is only, "where will you deal with it?"

j) This country produces more food than it can use, therefore it is okay to cover over the fertile centers of the country (which not by coincidence are around most major cities). Okay let's see. Small farms are almost gone -- thanks in no small part to Reagan. The rich heritage of farming in this country is therefore almost gone. Self-sufficiency is almost gone. We're relying on government subsidized overproduction of monoculture using risky experiments in genetic engineering and pesticides and fertilizers (not to mention overreliance on cattle grazing) which are altogether setting the country up for food collapse. The water tables of many parts of the country are almost gone, and are rapidly filling with pesticide runoff. Top soil is disappearing rapidly. And monoculture means massive susceptibility. This is why, for one local example, we have an epidemic of sudden oak death -- yes, it was bred by pesticide abuse. For an important dialogue on why "man" should not live out of balance with nature, which began with certain kinds of expansionist farming cultures, check out Ishmael (protagonist a gorilla, be warned) by Daniel Quinn. By the way I belong to an organization that's trying to save family farms and my own familiy farm was lost to the unchecked pressures of sprawl development. My grandfather curses Reagan (who he voted for, to his discredit). Also...the Green Revolution has been widely criticized for its impacts on the places it was meant to help...

k) Carter and Clinton caused 9/11 by not killing more middle eastern oil magnates sooner. No mention of how Reagan, as one of his first acts in office after cutting the first deals with Khomeini, cut all the research into solar that Carter had set up.

l) "A show of hands please: How many of you currently are running your computers by wind and/or solar power?" Actually friends of mine do this and all their neighbors could too, but sadly don't. It's very economically viable in a lot of parts of the Bay Area because of the wind from the ocean. There's also a house in the area which is totally run by bicycle power. That's personal responsibility. I am considering negotiating with my landlord on installing alternative energy where I live. What have you done?

m) "Death is on the decline for " USA. Well maybe right now, depending on who cooks the numbers and how they cook them. But with all these crises set to converge, I'm very scared of the future in the USA. But just because it's declining on paper doesn't mean it is as low as it should be. And many deaths go unreported. Many cancer deaths, and many automobile accident deaths, don't get reported as such. And the U.S. is one of the centers of cancer. Anyone watching knows that the number of people around them getting cancer is increasing. It's an epidemic related to our careless dependence on toxic substances and irradiants in our food, in our homes, in our transport systems, and so on.

n) "Calm down and look who's taking your tax money and 'dissapearing it' out of the pentagon budget - 3.3 billion this year. Can't blame Hussein for that. Can't blame Osama." Um, a report I have from the War Resisters League (http://www.warrestisters.org ) states that our income tax money goes 46% to military -- close to half of that, $339 Billion, to past military expenditures. The subsidy for military control in the middle east on an average year was leaked a while back at $40-60B.

o) Taping or pasting a piece of paper on a motor vehicle is "vandalism". While there must be some criminal statute that could apply, vandalism in California is a much more serious crime and I do not believe that this act as described meets the tests for vandalism under the Penal Code of California.

p) "The United States could never be a rail-based economy". But it was! And you may wish it could be again, very very soon...but now most of the infrastructure has been lost. The photo of "your" 4runner doesn't exactly help your argument either. Are you proudly showing that you didn't put a "Bump of Truth" on it? But more importantly you failed to understand that the comment regarded the PUBLIC TRANSPORT system, not the entire economy.

q) "Radical forms of protest simple make moderates move to a more radical opposing view. If you don't understand that, let me give you an example. An activist throws blood on a woman's fur coat. There are random other people around who see this. These random other people see the activist's actions. They are appalled by what the activist does (simple disregard for personal property and that ilk) and will then become a little more against the animal rights movement". Eli, that's partially true, kind of like Bush's coup over the USA has pushed some people to do more radical opposing things (like I suppose, trying to express their frustration on people's bumpers). But there's another angle to that. Gee did Green Peace make everyone dislike it when it intervened on behalf of baby seals with green dye? There"s the belief that showing frustration will finally bring dialogue (case in point). Or that it will make the "moderates" amenable to your general goals, suddenly appear more formidable and more reasonable. Thereby inching forward your agenda. But not realizing it. Of course there are many possible effects. Crushing oppression could come down. Or a popular revolution could arise. It's not so simple as you say.

r) "Trains need a source of power as well! (Electricity or various oil forms)". Very good! Did you know that GM deliberately made all their engines run on diesel even though running on electric is 7 times more efficient? Local towns passed ordinances making them switch to electric when entering because the horrid black smoke coated everything like paint (uh...worse than vandalism, folks). GM begrudglingly complied by adding a SECOND ENGINE to run on electric when entering those towns. By the way that diesel exhaust is proven to cause cancer and heart disease.

s) "The fact of the matter is that with the exception of a couple of small neighborhoods in the US and even smaller hamlets around the world your dream world does not exist. And it will never exist in a country the size of Japan, let alone one as vast as the US." Very heartening to hear that dream worlds exist in places. If in some places, why not more? Ask yourself what's wrong with the US if dream worlds can't happen here?

t) "im a deck-hand on a ship that burns 900 gallons of gas/hour and releases huge plumes of black smoke that can't be controlled by the EPA, because....its a ship!" Actually very few things can be controlled by the EPA because...it's a government regulatory agency in the USA! Under the Bush administration! (Not that any other corporate sponsored ruler would be any better). If you make waves you're fired. No, not you deckhand, anyone in the EPA who actually wants to protect the "American" people. And the EPA budget is more pathetic than the SEC's when it comes to actually enforcing anything. There's almost nothing protecting the "American" people. That's more scary to me than the myth of a guy on dialysis in a cave somewhere, even if he is a close associate of Bush.

http://www.indybay.org/news/2002/03/119467

u) "As for polluting, keep in mind a brand new auto or SUV driving down the Interstate highway at 65 mph produces less toxic emissions than a 60's era automobile does parked in the driveway with the engine off." This is such absurdity it doesn't deserve debunking. But! Even if it were true, so what? Do I want cancer and asthma and global warming and brain damage and lead poisoning from your "cleaner than a parked 1960's" vehicle? No! And by the way on average it takes as much energy to build a car as the car on average uses in 3.5 years of operation. So older cars can be better on resource use. And not just the energy used. Mining for the metals, and the torrential deluge of specious advertising, are also spared us. But guess what? They're all cars, and cars all share many of the same problems. So...what was your point?

v) The song, "There's nothing wrong with Capitalism". Long on generalizations and repetition, short on theory or substantiation. There's plenty of information on what's wrong with capitalism (and what now falsely passes as capitalism) and plenty of examples of viable alternative economies which have existed. To just sing a song claiming that only lazy privileged kids hate capitalism is really off the mark. Ask anyone subjected to the IMF/WB what they think about "capitalism" (read, neoliberal new stalinism).

w) "And remember. If anybody decides to buy a couple cans of gasoline and pour them out in a wildlife preserve in protest SF Indymedia is fully responsible." No comment, it should be obvious. But most wildlife preserves have been whittled away beginning with the building of roads for logging and...oil. So there's not much to burn. Better to break your teacher's blackboard, it sends the same message on a more personal scope.

x) "Hey, you little snots, why not go to New York and stick one of these stickers on a fire engine? They burn LOTS of gas. Be sure to explain it to the firefighters." Yes, they burn lots of gas but if there's anything we might all agree on, it's the need to have emergency services. And the total use of gasoline for emergency services in the USA is a small fraction of domestic oil production each year. So there's no issue there. But posting one on their personal vehicles would be another issue.

y) "If your constitutional and human rights had really been shredded, shouldn't all of you be off in the gulag by now?" Read the Patriot Act. Watch the history of action by those in power. When they have all their cards in place they act. Internment camps won't be used on the general population for having anti-corporatist views until they feel they can get away with it, or feel forced to by circumstance.

z) "IF you want to call it civil disobedience, THEN you should make yourself known and face the consequences". A nice idea, gee in such a tolerant and healthy country where nobody makes threats over beliefs I don't understand why whoever created this idea or whoever has been doing it doesn't sign their name to each one! Better yet to each car in a paint marker, just to show how much they care and actually make it a crime of vandalism. Then the civil system would most surely be disobeyed. Maybe you're right though, but whoever does post these little pieces of paper certainly takes the chance of getting caught, and the longer it takes, the more are pasted, and the more people will join this discussion and get to read your enlightened views. So you can't really declare that the activity is not civil disobedience under your definition -- it's more a question of scope.

Okay, that's A-Z, enough for now, time for a different kind of z. As in zzzzzzzzz.

Of interest, the "Squad Automatic Weapon, an M249 Light Machine gun" is very good against "thin-skinned vehicles" (which sounds kind of like some of the posters on this list, who identify so closely with their rolling prisons that a piece of paper upsets them so). I'm surprised none of you violent fantasy types has suggested shooting out the metal holding the porridgeful posting on vehicles sporting these or any other messages you so disprove of. After all they were technically offered for people to use personally... At 725 rounds per minute with a range of 2.23 miles it shouldn't take long. Right? Or as one poster said, "The Right...is wrong".
by Saint Vandal
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 4:51 AM
What a rambling piece of shit from another starry eyed utopian. There's no need to take apart it's psychobabble point by point. This should be enough to let you see it's justifying criminal vandalism (note vandalism in quote marks):


o) Taping or pasting a piece of paper on a motor vehicle is "vandalism". While there must be some criminal statute that could apply, vandalism in California is a much more serious crime and I do not believe that this act as described meets the tests for vandalism under the Penal Code of California.

by X2
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 5:32 AM
Anything against the fascist right is fair game.
by X2
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 5:32 AM
Anything against the fascist right is fair game.
by louis
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 5:33 AM
asa hippy,id like to tell you about my days and nights.for example,im completely nude as i write this.fully exposed to the harsh elements of my computer laboratory,you think i kid.ive got 2 cats right here to prove it.
i am much interested in the secret of life.ive looked for it extensively all over the world wide web.but my first acid trip was much more revealing,there i was,i couldnt move,i was watching a spiral envelope me.then my friend said to me at just the right moment,take it to the next level.so i did.
so when i came down off that trip,i moved to the beach,and read henry david thoreaus famous novel,yelling qoutes from it to all the cracker white legs that walked by me.
you still think im joking about this.im not,yes ive matured and put down the intoxicants.and ive put down other things.like my car.fuck that,ive got a bike now,and only have to work 23 hours a week if that.i take many vacations,i know how to sleep on the beach,dont need much money to do that.i have alot more time and resources to do what a millionaire does,without the worries of losing it or breaking it.all without freeloading,you see ive refined these skills.it feels good to be a human being,and if i had a handful of stickers,your car might get one.
by cp
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 11:04 AM
who cares

Most of the state of Schleswig Holstein in Northern Germany is run on windpower. It's very viable and not just in a research stage like fuel cells because even though the US doesn't do much research, the danish and dutch etc have. Why are their windturbines not exported here?

The venture capitalists were busy, in all their wisdom, throwing their money at sure things like Pets.com and other companies with marginal products blowing millions of dollars on Superbowl TV advertising. The banks in this country, in all their respective wisdom, have been throwing credit cards at anyone over the age of 18 instead of intelligently investing in windmills. It used to be difficult to get a credit card in the 70s and early 80s. Now, subsequently, the amount of national consumer credit debt doubled between 1994-1999, and this is what has been artificially buoying the economy. People are still buying large items like new SUVs every 4 years, as though there were no recession going on. Combined with the effects of the nationwide housing bubble, do we really think everyone is going to be able to pay off all these debts? you know, if dollars don't really represent anything we could all just xerox off a bunch of them and hand them out to everyone just like the credit cards and everyone could buy things and the economy would thrive. : http://www.financialsense.com/stormwatch/update.htm
by GW Bush
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 1:27 PM
Ho ho hoh oho ho ho!!!!

santa clause we've found our mark!

these stupid humans get really upset about stickers pointing out their role in the evil empire!!!

we love the evil empire!!!
we can turn this ferociuos passion from otherwise docile and drugged consumers into big money!!!

why don't we cook up a scheme to attack them symbolically -- not militarily of course -- and personalize one of our insulated friends and fellow investors as our great enemy. he'll be safe cuz "we'll handle goin' ta gitim!"

then we can sell SOOOO MMANY AMERIKKKAN FLAGSS!!!

and that's just the beginning!

all the heat on the feds, and the economy's about to tank? no sweat!

everyone saying i stole the election? they'll forget that in a second!

the big oil crunch? ah i love the black gooey stuff its like sex with teh earth just like my papa papa nazi many adolf said

well we can choose a country that has a lot to offer and plan a military action well in advance, like months and months

and we'll do it just like pearl harbor, just like tonkin gulf, just like WW I, just like the Spanish-American war, we'll just apply the same old formula:

ooh we were attacked, defend our borders!!!

central america really does mean kansas!

and i'll be smart enough to show my cool head by saying it's just like pearl harbor and smirking

like when daddy passed on the presidency and he said in glee, "the american people have spoken!"

and then our boy billy bo clinton took the ball for awhile

yeeee haw!

then we'll cry on tv, say it's time for war, grow up overnight, and really let'em have billions of bucks in bombs all over desert sand again just like daddy did!

we'll destroy the evidence

we'll play the stocks and not get caught

then bail out the airlines to our friends ho ho ho!

just like that gray davis palsy did to those dumbass californians in the greatest energy swindle any state has ever seen!

hahahah!! we've worked hard to bring this country to the brink, to get our hand around its throat so tight, and we're laughing all the way to the bank while we prepare for the clamp down after the crash

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
by Kris
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 2:23 PM
Sounds like you're more paranoid than the president.
by stinky
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 2:29 PM
PRINT IT OUT, AND STICK IT ON CARS OUTSIDE OF MOSQUES!!
by fuck the right
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 2:53 PM
Bush planned Iraq 'regime change' before becoming President




By Neil Mackay



A SECRET blueprint for US global domination reveals that President Bush and his cabinet were planning a premeditated attack on Iraq to secure 'regime change' even before he took power in January 2001.
The blueprint, uncovered by the Sunday Herald, for the creation of a 'global Pax Americana' was drawn up for Dick Cheney (now vice- president), Donald Rumsfeld (defence secretary), Paul Wolfowitz (Rumsfeld's deputy), George W Bush's younger brother Jeb and Lewis Libby (Cheney's chief of staff). The document, entitled Rebuilding America's Defences: Strategies, Forces And Resources For A New Century, was written in September 2000 by the neo-conservative think-tank Project for the New American Century (PNAC).

The plan shows Bush's cabinet intended to take military control of the Gulf region whether or not Saddam Hussein was in power. It says: 'The United States has for decades sought to play a more permanent role in Gulf regional security. While the unresolved conflict with Iraq provides the immediate justification, the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein.'

The PNAC document supports a 'blueprint for maintaining global US pre-eminence, precluding the rise of a great power rival, and shaping the international security order in line with American principles and interests'.

This 'American grand strategy' must be advanced for 'as far into the future as possible', the report says. It also calls for the US to 'fight and decisively win multiple, simultaneous major theatre wars' as a 'core mission'.

The report describes American armed forces abroad as 'the cavalry on the new American frontier'. The PNAC blueprint supports an earlier document written by Wolfowitz and Libby that said the US must 'discourage advanced industrial nations from challenging our leadership or even aspiring to a larger regional or global role'.

The PNAC report also:

l refers to key allies such as the UK as 'the most effective and efficient means of exercising American global leadership';

l describes peace-keeping missions as 'demanding American political leadership rather than that of the United Nations';

l reveals worries in the administration that Europe could rival the USA;

l says 'even should Saddam pass from the scene' bases in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait will remain permanently -- despite domestic opposition in the Gulf regimes to the stationing of US troops -- as 'Iran may well prove as large a threat to US interests as Iraq has';

l spotlights China for 'regime change' saying 'it is time to increase the presence of American forces in southeast Asia'. This, it says, may lead to 'American and allied power providing the spur to the process of democratisation in China';

l calls for the creation of 'US Space Forces', to dominate space, and the total control of cyberspace to prevent 'enemies' using the internet against the US;

l hints that, despite threatening war against Iraq for developing weapons of mass destruction, the US may consider developing biological weapons -- which the nation has banned -- in decades to come. It says: 'New methods of attack -- electronic, 'non-lethal', biological -- will be more widely available ... combat likely will take place in new dimensions, in space, cyberspace, and perhaps the world of microbes ... advanced forms of biological warfare that can 'target' specific genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool';

l and pinpoints North Korea, Libya, Syria and Iran as dangerous regimes and says their existence justifies the creation of a 'world-wide command-and-control system'.

Tam Dalyell, the Labour MP, father of the House of Commons and one of the leading rebel voices against war with Iraq, said: 'This is garbage from right-wing think-tanks stuffed with chicken-hawks -- men who have never seen the horror of war but are in love with the idea of war. Men like Cheney, who were draft-dodgers in the Vietnam war.

'This is a blueprint for US world domination -- a new world order of their making. These are the thought processes of fantasist Americans who want to control the world. I am appalled that a British Labour Prime Minister should have got into bed with a crew which has this moral standing.'

---

Your right wing ultra-conservatives are completely transparent. Once the people of the US wake up to your corrupt and sickening plans they will hang you from the light posts. You fuckers are going to be an endangered species.
by two-wheeled terra-ist
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 3:03 PM
More on why fire trucks and ambulances aren't the problem:

There'd be at LEAST 50% less emergency vehicle use if there weren't all those auto "accidents"!!

Oh by the way I think the big trucks use diesel not gasoline but so what it's STILL PETROLEUM
by two-wheeled terra-ist
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 3:07 PM
even with hydrogen the cars still have to go somewhere and everyone who gets one should be responsible for keeping it running forever! you should have to put it in your own backyard! and DRINK your oil effluence TOO!
by fuck the right
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 3:10 PM
"hints that, despite threatening war against Iraq for developing weapons of mass destruction, the US may consider developing biological weapons -- which the nation has banned -- in decades to come. It says: 'New methods of attack -- electronic, 'non-lethal', biological -- will be more widely available ... combat likely will take place in new dimensions, in space, cyberspace, and perhaps the world of microbes ... advanced forms of biological warfare that can 'target' specific genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool';"

What kind of suck fucks are running this country?
by fuck the right
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 3:13 PM
People are getting pissy about a sticker which can be easily removed from their car and is undamaging... yet they couldn't care less about people being slaughtered by US bombs and imperialist armies, which as these plans for world domination clearly show, are part of Bush's and his goons' as well? Are people of the US really this psychologically damaged that they care more about a fucking stick then the lives of thousands? Is this some kind of psychological denial? The refusal to see the truth?
by Zenobia
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 5:07 PM
z) "IF you want to call it civil disobedience, THEN you should make yourself known and face the consequences". A nice idea, gee in such a tolerant and healthy country where nobody makes threats over beliefs I don't understand why whoever created this idea or whoever has been doing it doesn't sign their name to each one! Better yet to each car in a paint marker, just to show how much they care and actually make it a crime of vandalism. Then the civil system would most surely be disobeyed. Maybe you're right though, but whoever does post these little pieces of paper certainly takes the chance of getting caught, and the longer it takes, the more are pasted, and the more people will join this discussion and get to read your enlightened views. So you can't really declare that the activity is not civil disobedience under your definition -- it's more a question of scope.

HELLO??? It's not MY definition of civil disobedience, you idiot. Ever read Thoreau? Gandhi? MLK? They didn't advocate civil disobedience only if you're not likely to get threatened, or even physically assaulted in the process. That's the whole point of civil disobedience and non-violent resistance, moron. You have to be willing to put your own ass on the line for your cause.

That "question of scope" thing is rich. You craven spoiled children are so courageous because you might be caught affixing your childish drivel to somebody's car? Civil disobedience means being willing to have the dogs and firehoses set on you (see MLK and his activists); it means being willing to have your heads bashed in (see Gandhi). It DOESN'T mean skulking up to someone's car and pasting banal absurdities on their bumper and RUNNING AWAY. Or I guess that's civil disobedience in the same way that anyone who disagrees with you is a Fascist.
by Zenobia
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 5:17 PM
I've read the Patriot Act. Have you? Somehow I get the impression you're not a very astute reader.

From Jeffrey Rosen in the Washington Post:
In the course of researching the state of liberty and security after 9/11, I've been especially struck by how restrained America's legal response appears when contrasted with that of our European allies. Although they weren't directly attacked, the countries of the European Union passed anti-terrorism measures during the past year that are far more sweeping than anything adopted in the United States. In October, France expanded the powers of the police to search private property without a warrant. Germany has engaged in religious profiling of suspected terrorists, a practice that was upheld in a court challenge. In Britain, which has become a kind of privacy dystopia, Parliament passed a sweeping anti-terrorism law in December that authorizes a central government authority to record and store all communications data generated by e-mail, Internet browsing or other electronic communications, and to make the data available to law enforcement without a court order. In May, the European Union authorized all of its members to pass similar laws requiring data retention.

The Bush administration has tried to emulate its European allies by expanding executive authority in similarly dramatic ways. It asserted that the president may designate citizens or aliens as enemy combatants and detain them indefinitely without judicial review. It claimed that the president may deport certain aliens based on secret hearings whose existence is withheld from the pressand the public. And it attempted to blur the legal lines that separate domestic law enforcement from foreign intelligence gathering, transforming the FBI into the equivalent of Britain's domestic security intelligence agency, MI5.

What distinguished America from Europe, however, is how quickly all three of these extreme positions met with opposition from the other two branches of government.

And why don't you put your name to your prediction about internment camps? We'll check back with you in a few years. You could become famous for your prescience (look it up -- oh, but you probably don't own a dictionary because generally words only mean what you want them to mean). And if America is as bad as you say it is, why aren't we ready to put anti-corporatists in internment camps RIGHT NOW?
by Zenobia
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 5:43 PM
If the argument (to use the term loosely) of "anti-corporatists" (God, how mightily you've contributed to the lexicon!) is that we Americans are so hopelessly mired in and repressed by "corporate culture" that we are unable to understand our own imprisonment, by what miracle have you and your playmates managed to break your chains and crawl out of the cave to see things as they really are? You are as hopelessly enmeshed as the rest of us (assuming you are, at least nominally, Americans), and any means by which you claim to have liberated yourself is only a tool of the evil corporate culture.

Try reading Adorno on the cultural critic.

Ooops . . . I forgot, you probably haven't made it out of grammar school yet. Good luck.
by cp
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 7:14 PM
didn't adorno think that america was a trashy hopeless culture because of jazz music, and he only approved of classical? He tried to show how
subjective experience is constituted through forms produced by an industry that is governed by economic considerations, such that older forms of subjectivity are destabilized or reworked in new ways, usually
complicit or caught in the dominant power relations. I wonder what type of bicycle or suv he would have driven. maybe he wouldn't have driven anything and he would remain a hermit and have kozmo.com send him his food.
by cp
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 7:30 PM
didn't adorno think that america was a trashy hopeless culture because of jazz music, and he only approved of classical? He tried to show how
subjective experience is constituted through forms produced by an industry that is governed by economic considerations, such that older forms of subjectivity are destabilized or reworked in new ways, usually
complicit or caught in the dominant power relations. I wonder what type of bicycle or suv he would have driven. maybe he wouldn't have driven anything and he would remain a hermit and have kozmo.com send him his food.
by ottilie
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 7:30 PM
You're going to tell us how to do civil disobedience? You've got the rulebook, boss?

Adorno definitely would not drive a Lincoln navigator - they aesthetically represent the ueberSysteme. _Dialectic of Enlightenment_ overall is concerned to show (simplifying mightily here) that "Enlightenment," which is to say the attempt to use rationality to liberate "man" from "his" repressive relations with nature and with a hierarchical social order, ultimately reproduces those relations of domination by stripping "man" himself of all transcendent value--i.e. rationalizing subjectivity as it has rationalized every other aspect of existence--and reconstituting the social as a new "nature"--a new form of pervasive, over-arching, inevitable power to which individuals are forced to submit.
The logical conclusion of Enlightenment is that "domination appears as archaic terror in a fascistically rationalized form" - perhaps something like the form of a Ford expedition.
by stupid stupid smashie
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 8:59 PM
How about IMC-SF sues SmashTheLeft for repeated libeal/slander? Conspiracy to do violence against Imc-sf? Incitement for hate crimes and violence? One only has to read the archieved posts coming from you on this website, and their case would be in the bag. I think it would be in your best interest to shut your fat face, don't you think?
by stupid stupid smashie
Sunday Sep 15th, 2002 9:00 PM
How about IMC-SF sues SmashTheLeft for repeated libeal/slander? Conspiracy to do violence against Imc-sf? Incitement for hate crimes and violence? One only has to read the archieved posts coming from you on this website, and their case would be in the bag. I think it would be in your best interest to shut your fat face, don't you think?
"Adorno definitely would not drive a Lincoln navigator - they aesthetically represent the ueberSysteme. _Dialectic of Enlightenment_ overall is concerned to show (simplifying mightily here) that "Enlightenment," which is to say the attempt to use rationality to liberate "man" from "his" repressive relations with nature and with a hierarchical social order, ultimately reproduces those relations of domination by stripping "man" himself of all transcendent value--i.e. rationalizing subjectivity as it has rationalized every other aspect of existence--and reconstituting the social as a new "nature"--a new form of pervasive, over-arching, inevitable power to which individuals are forced to submit.
The logical conclusion of Enlightenment is that "domination appears as archaic terror in a fascistically rationalized form" - perhaps something like the form of a Ford expedition."

===========================================

1. Joyce and Lyotardist narrative
"Society is part of the economy of culture," says Derrida. The premise of the textual paradigm of narrative states that class has objective value. Thus, the primary theme of the works of Joyce is not theory, but subtheory.

"Sexuality is used in the service of the status quo," says Bataille; however, according to von Ludwig[1] , it is not so much sexuality that is used in the service of the status quo, but rather the genre, and thus the paradigm, of sexuality. Any number of conceptualisms concerning premodernist capitalist theory may be discovered. However, the masculine/feminine distinction which is a central theme of Joyce's Finnegan's Wake emerges again in Ulysses, although in a more self-fulfilling sense.

"Society is intrinsically a legal fiction," says Sontag. Derrida uses the term 'the textual paradigm of narrative' to denote the bridge between sexual identity and class. In a sense, Foucault promotes the use of premodernist capitalist theory to attack and analyse society.

In the works of Joyce, a predominant concept is the concept of neocultural narrativity. The subject is contextualised into a textual paradigm of narrative that includes culture as a whole. Therefore, Baudrillard's essay on the textual paradigm of narrative holds that academe is dead.

"Class is fundamentally unattainable," says Sontag; however, according to Humphrey[2] , it is not so much class that is fundamentally unattainable, but rather the stasis, and some would say the genre, of class. Derrida suggests the use of subsemiotic dematerialism to challenge outdated, colonialist perceptions of art. It could be said that the premise of Lyotardist narrative implies that consensus comes from the masses, given that reality is distinct from narrativity.

The subject is interpolated into a textual paradigm of narrative that includes language as a paradox. However, d'Erlette[3] holds that the works of Joyce are not postmodern.

The subject is contextualised into a premodernist capitalist theory that includes truth as a totality. Therefore, Baudrillard uses the term 'the textual paradigm of narrative' to denote not desublimation as such, but predesublimation. Sontag's model of premodernist capitalist theory states that culture is capable of significance. Thus, the characteristic theme of Hanfkopf's[4] analysis of Lyotardist narrative is the role of the poet as artist.

In Finnegan's Wake, Joyce examines premodernist capitalist theory; in Dubliners, although, he analyses subcultural capitalist theory. But the subject is interpolated into a textual paradigm of narrative that includes art as a whole.

Derrida uses the term 'premodernist capitalist theory' to denote the meaninglessness, and subsequent absurdity, of neocultural class. Therefore, the main theme of the works of Joyce is the role of the participant as artist.

Baudrillard uses the term 'the textual paradigm of narrative' to denote the common ground between sexual identity and class. But if the semiotic paradigm of narrative holds, we have to choose between premodernist capitalist theory and precapitalist deconstruction.

Derrida promotes the use of the dialectic paradigm of reality to modify society. Thus, a number of theories concerning the futility, and some would say the defining characteristic, of postconceptual sexuality exist.

2. Narratives of absurdity
If one examines Lyotardist narrative, one is faced with a choice: either accept premodernist capitalist theory or conclude that art may be used to reinforce hierarchy, but only if the textual paradigm of narrative is valid. The primary theme of McElwaine's[5] model of Foucaultist power relations is not, in fact, narrative, but postnarrative. In a sense, the subject is contextualised into a premodernist capitalist theory that includes language as a totality.

"Class is a legal fiction," says Lyotard; however, according to la Tournier[6] , it is not so much class that is a legal fiction, but rather the rubicon, and subsequent fatal flaw, of class. Bataille uses the term 'Lyotardist narrative' to denote the role of the participant as reader. Therefore, the subject is interpolated into a textual paradigm of narrative that includes consciousness as a paradox.

In the works of Joyce, a predominant concept is the distinction between without and within. Drucker[7] suggests that the works of Joyce are postmodern. However, Baudrillard uses the term 'the subconstructive paradigm of reality' to denote a mythopoetical whole.

In A Portrait of the Artist As a Young Man, Joyce examines premodernist capitalist theory; in Dubliners he affirms Lyotardist narrative. Therefore, if the textual paradigm of narrative holds, we have to choose between dialectic Marxism and Derridaist reading.

Debord's critique of the textual paradigm of narrative holds that the significance of the observer is social comment. In a sense, the characteristic theme of the works of Joyce is the difference between class and society. The subject is contextualised into a Lyotardist narrative that includes truth as a reality. However, la Tournier[8] suggests that we have to choose between the textual paradigm of narrative and Foucaultist power relations.

Lyotard suggests the use of the textual paradigm of reality to attack sexism. It could be said that several narratives concerning premodernist capitalist theory may be revealed.

If the textual paradigm of narrative holds, we have to choose between neosemanticist objectivism and Batailleist `powerful communication'. But the example of the textual paradigm of narrative intrinsic to Joyce's A Portrait of the Artist As a Young Man is also evident in Dubliners.

3. Premodernist capitalist theory and capitalist libertarianism
"Sexual identity is part of the stasis of consciousness," says Marx. Buxton[9] holds that we have to choose between the textual paradigm of narrative and postmaterial patriarchialist theory. In a sense, if capitalist libertarianism holds, the works of Stone are an example of precultural nihilism.

The primary theme of Finnis's[10] analysis of the textual paradigm of narrative is the paradigm, and eventually the failure, of subcultural class. Sartre uses the term 'capitalist postcultural theory' to denote not situationism per se, but presituationism. However, many discourses concerning the common ground between sexual identity and society exist.

Derrida promotes the use of the textual paradigm of narrative to analyse and challenge class. It could be said that Wilson[11] implies that we have to choose between capitalist capitalism and Foucaultist power relations.

Lyotard suggests the use of the textual paradigm of narrative to deconstruct hierarchy. However, Sontag uses the term 'premodernist capitalist theory' to denote the absurdity, and some would say the rubicon, of postdialectic society. Capitalist libertarianism suggests that the State is elitist. But the subject is interpolated into a cultural nationalism that includes truth as a totality.

Lacan uses the term 'capitalist libertarianism' to denote the role of the participant as observer. Therefore, the subject is contextualised into a subtextual paradigm of expression that includes sexuality as a paradox.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. von Ludwig, Z. I. (1993) Premodernist capitalist theory and the textual paradigm of narrative. Schlangekraft
2. Humphrey, G. Y. W. ed. (1980) Reading Debord: The textual paradigm of narrative in the works of Joyce. University of North Carolina Press

3. d'Erlette, F. (1972) The textual paradigm of narrative and premodernist capitalist theory. Loompanics

4. Hanfkopf, R. W. ed. (1980) The Iron Door: Premodernist capitalist theory and the textual paradigm of narrative. Panic Button Books

5. McElwaine, P. (1995) Cultural subtextual theory, premodernist capitalist theory and feminism. University of Georgia Press

6. la Tournier, F. A. ed. (1971) The Stasis of Society: Premodernist capitalist theory in the works of McLaren. Loompanics

7. Drucker, L. Y. C. (1987) The textual paradigm of narrative and premodernist capitalist theory. Yale University Press

8. la Tournier, I. ed. (1973) The Narrative of Dialectic: Prepatriarchialist rationalism, feminism and premodernist capitalist theory. University of North Carolina Press

9. Buxton, W. B. P. (1990) The textual paradigm of narrative in the works of Stone. University of Illinois Press

10. Finnis, C. ed. (1972) Discourses of Fatal flaw: Premodernist capitalist theory and the textual paradigm of narrative. Schlangekraft

11. Wilson, L. C. (1994) Feminism, premodernist capitalist theory and Debordist image. O'Reilly & Associates




by ya yas
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 12:09 AM
continuing the refutations to absurd points raised by the "rightists" enjoying their free ride on the Independent Media Center's esteemed and revered San Francisco chapter's news site:

aa) "Then can we infer by your pathetic logic that it's okay for me to commit crimes against a homosexuals [sic] person since they [sic] are the ones spreading the deadly disease of AIDS?" Actually no, because once again the U.S. military and the Bush family are primarily implicated (with much help from the Reagan administration). Just do a google search on "Pentagon Reagan AIDS conspiracy" or similar combinations. The goal was to eradicate third world population and certainly to promote the Jesus myth of social control and superiority over sinners who fornicate. (Note that the Bushies are documented occultists, e.g., Yale Skull and Bones). Certainly homosexuals were one of the most effective early vectors and some did knowingly spread the virus (e.g., patient zero). However today women are the fastest growing HIV-infected population. For a mainstream source of the public history of how the Reagan Administration et. al. failed to do what they could to slow or cease the epidemic, read And the Band Played On, about who really brought us the AIDS crisis, and for the conspiracy theories check just about any of the usual places, there's been evidence of this (far beyond simply the motive) for years. Of interest, I was just reading about the devastation of native peoples in the Americas due to the Syphilis and Smallpox which were introduced, at times deliberately. The missionaries and their complementary conquistadors (which is still the primary way oilmen make their inroads into traditional societies) blamed the horrible deaths of entire populations on God. If only they'd been religious, they wouldn't have been eaten alive by Syphilis. Funny thing that, most of the missionaries and conquistadors also succumbed to the sexual disease which they introduced through rape. So while the nazistic born again christian hypocrites spread AIDS and celebrate the deaths of "sinners" in fact they have mass murder on their "pure" hands.

In short, there are simple models of exploitation and social control which have been used on populations repeatedly, and have remained effective in part because the end result is usually the dissolution or more likely complete genocide of the target population.

ab) "ALL OF [the lefty sticker maniacs] ARE FROM VERY WEALTHY FAMILIES AND LIVE OFF TRUST FUNDS FROM THEIR PARENTS". Prove it dirt bag! More likely anyone with the time to sit around and act like a spoiled brat, posting gratuitous murder fantasies 24 hours a day, is a craven wealthy miscreant totally divorced from the realities of basic survival in the real world.

ac) "anti-corporatists" (God, how mightily you've contributed to the lexicon!). Actually the concept of "corporatists" is not new, and certainly has been present on the internet for years if not since the inception. I don't know the etymological history but, it's not a new term. Corporatism is a form of fascism implemented by big business. Actually I find it in a 1973 edition of Webster's Dictionary. So to be anti-corporatist is a simple construction which follows from the existence of the word. Choose any subject and add the prefix..."anti-IMC" would be a much newer "addition to the lexicon" but in reality it is de facto present in the semantic space of our language. The real question is one of usage. Because the English language is so limited, and has evolved under the limitations of this oppressive culture, one struggles to realize accurate diction. Seems like that's your issue. Why not call me a PC Nazi for trying to say what I mean?

FYI: Corporatism is defined in the 1973 "Webster's New Collegiate Edition" as, "the organization of a society into industrial and professional corporations serving as organs of political representation and exercising some control over persons and activities within their jurisdiction." I've certainly seen more scathing definitions since then, in popular literature.

It continues to post that same definition ("Date: 1860"!) to its website, http://www.webster.com.

Before I noticed that website, I was almost fooled into thinking that Webster's had changed its definition, but had accidentally typed "http://www.websters.com" which goes to "dictionary.com" which is owned by an LLC.

I was going to ask, "Has Webster's corporation kept up with the times? I've heard various rumors that Webster's has fallen from its former principles and begun to capitalize upon its ability to create our reality through the defining of our words (nuspeak). Perhaps that's why the online definition is so much more simplistic?"

"'Of, relating to, or being a corporative state or system'."

"But they do define corporative, the second definition of which is: 'Of or relating to a government or political system in which the principal economic functions, such as banking, industry, labor, and government, are organized as corporate entities.'"

As Rosanne Rosannadanna said, "Never mind".


ad) "Ooops . . . I forgot, you probably haven't made it out of grammar school yet." Since when is grammar school the best place to become literate? Why, before the Reagan cocaine contras began murdering nuns, families and even U.S. citizens in Nicaragua after the popular revolution there, literacy and health care all increased significantly. As usual, the U.S. corporatist/imperialist program intervened immediately to crush the independence movement. This was a rare case of intervention more for ideology than oil, although U.S. corporate interests have always been at the heart of the long history of military "intervention" there.

ae) "HELLO??? It's not MY definition of civil disobedience, you idiot. Ever read Thoreau? Gandhi? MLK? They didn't advocate civil disobedience only if you're not likely to get threatened, or even physically assaulted in the process. That's the whole point of civil disobedience and non-violent resistance, moron. You have to be willing to put your own ass on the line for your cause." Ah yes. Well to defer to the fallacy of authority by establishment control of language, my trusty rusty old 1973 Webster's dictionary says "civil disobedience, n: refusal to obey governmental demands or commands esp. as a nonviolent and usu. collective means of focring concessions from the government." Under that dictionary I would concede that yes, the act of posting a bumper sticker may not be civil disobedience as it is not likely to force concessions. But under your definition (independent of what Ghandi and MLK et. al. said), I find that it does adhere to the definition. Given the death threats and other uncivil attitudes posted to this list, I think anyone who posts these without permission is "willing to put [their] ass on the line for [their] cause".

Note that MLK and Ghandi were assassinated.

af) "Sexuality is used in the service of the status quo," says Batille. Have you peeked at Batille's privates lately?

Take it away Uncle SAM.
by truthteller
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 12:23 AM
Paragraphs of nonsense from an increasingly irrelevant crack baby.

You forgot to mention the years of Clinton the rapist, moron. What role did HE have to play in spreading AIDS so you sickies would have a political platform to run on? How many queers and child molesters vote Demonrat?

by truthteller
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 12:23 AM
Paragraphs of nonsense from an increasingly irrelevant crack baby.

You forgot to mention the years of Clinton the Rapist, moron. What role did HE have to play in spreading AIDS so you sickies would have a political platform to run on? How many queers and child molesters vote Demonrat?

by dumbassrightists
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 12:39 AM
ya yas's counter argument was one of grace and logic, truthteller's is more akin to a lunatic on the street screaming obcenities. It's interesting how the right wingers on here can only make their cases in a mob like hysterical frenzy filled with obcenities and descriptions of violence, yet few people in a calm manner can refute their collective hate. As well, so stereotypically conservative, they bring up clinton, as if those on the far left could care about him! Why don't you go do some studying on the anti-capitalist movement (social anarchist, left communist, marxist, etc) then get back to us?
by trivia question
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 1:11 AM
B00006AW2K.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg"
by Department of Photo Analysis
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 1:20 AM
looks like Smashy, only better.
by truthteller
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 1:22 AM
The leftist idiot speaks of "grace and logic". Not once has ANY of the leftist adolescent pukes discussed the main reason for the bumper sticker, which was brought up by someone MANY posts ago-the profane shock value of such a sticker on the anniversary of a heinous attack, where people of many colors and nationalities were murdered in cold blood.

Yes, I suppose there's grace and logic to the obscenity of Evil people who seek nothing more than to grind the face of a grieving person(s) into the dirt while they're already down.

by truthteller
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 1:23 AM
The leftist idiot speaks of "grace and logic". Not once has ANY of the leftist adolescent pukes discussed the main reason for the bumper sticker, which was brought up by someone MANY posts ago-the profane shock value of such a sticker on the anniversary of a heinous attack, where people of many colors and nationalities were murdered in cold blood.

Yes, I suppose there's grace and logic to the obscenity of Evil people who seek nothing more than to grind the face of a grieving person(s) into the dirt while they're already down.

by truthteller
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 1:23 AM
The leftist idiot speaks of "grace and logic". Not once has ANY of the leftist adolescent pukes discussed the main reason for the bumper sticker, which was brought up by someone MANY posts ago-the profane shock value of such a sticker on the anniversary of a heinous attack, where people of many colors and nationalities were murdered in cold blood.

Yes, I suppose there's grace and logic to the obscenity of Evil people who seek nothing more than to grind the face of a grieving person(s) into the dirt while they're already down.

by truthteller
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 1:23 AM
The leftist idiot speaks of "grace and logic". Not once has ANY of the leftist adolescent pukes discussed the main reason for the bumper sticker, which was brought up by someone MANY posts ago-the profane shock value of such a sticker on the anniversary of a heinous attack, where people of many colors and nationalities were murdered in cold blood.

Yes, I suppose there's grace and logic to the obscenity of Evil people who seek nothing more than to grind the face of a grieving person(s) into the dirt while they're already down.

by truthteller
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 1:23 AM
The leftist idiot speaks of "grace and logic". Not once has ANY of the leftist adolescent pukes discussed the main reason for the bumper sticker, which was brought up by someone MANY posts ago-the profane shock value of such a sticker on the anniversary of a heinous attack, where people of many colors and nationalities were murdered in cold blood.

Yes, I suppose there's grace and logic to the obscenity of Evil people who seek nothing more than to grind the face of a grieving person(s) into the dirt while they're already down.

by dumbrightist
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 1:42 AM
Was to bring discussion about the US's role in the middle east, one of oppression and death. Instead of discussion, we had a bunch of hate filled neo-conservatives come here and spam their violence laced obcenities over and over again. Half of their messages basically say the exact same thing, which makes me believe that most of them probably came from the same person, or they migrated over from some right wing site, possibly freerepublic.com. Nothing they said was logic ridden, it was mostly just insulting and hate filled, which perhaps is the most we can expect from people who support actions of slaughter in their name.
by Leftist
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 2:46 AM
falling_1.gif
The brain dead bastard expects that, after you discover someone who pisses on graves put an unsolicited sticker on your vehicle, you'll come here to express your feelings in graceful and cogent "dialogue".

And they wonder why intelligent people are waking up to the fact they must be wiped off the planet.

I'm ALL for liberal genocide!
by truthteller
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 3:30 AM
storefrony-indymedia.gif
We're all waiting for the logic and graceful dialogue sure to come from brain dead liberals who piss on graves.
by Eric
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 5:45 AM
bloody_woman.gifs77437.gif
Orwell was right. There are some things so insanely obscene that only an intellectual could accept them.
by David Jeter
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 7:11 AM
Point of the sticker
by dumbrightist • Monday September 16, 2002 at 01:42 AM

Was to bring discussion about the US's role in the middle east, one of oppression and death. Instead of discussion, we had a bunch of hate filled neo-conservatives come here and spam their violence laced obcenities over and over again. Half of their messages basically say the exact same thing, which makes me believe that most of them probably came from the same person, or they migrated over from some right wing site, possibly freerepublic.com. Nothing they said was logic ridden, it was mostly just insulting and hate filled, which perhaps is the most we can expect from people who support actions of slaughter in their name.


That has to be one of the most childish pieces of MTV psychobabble to come out of an adolescents mouth so far, and the day's still young. It wants a "discussion", a "dialog". Awww, now isn't that sweet? Yet how can you have a discussion with a child, who uses sentence structure like "nothing they said was logic ridden"?

You can't, truth be told. There's no talking to a coward while he's under the bed, lying in a puddle of urine, who wants to sell out his fellow citizens so another building won't come crashing down. We've had to own up to the fact in the last year that violence, while not preferred, is sometimes necessary for protection, protection of our personal space, our sense of self, our children, our property, our Country, our very existence.

Either we risk war to have a future, or stay stuck in incontinence and irrelevancy.
by Marshall Mathers
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 9:32 AM
Ah yeah, Yo!
This song is dedicated to all the happy people
All the happy people who have real nice lives
And who have no idea whats it like to be broke as fuck

Verse One:
I feel like I'm walking a tight rope
Without a circus net
I'm popping percasete
I'm a nervous wreck
I deserve respect
But I work a sweat for this worthless check
Bout to burst this tech, at somebody to reverse this debt
Minimum wage got my adrenaline caged
Full of venom and rage
Especially when I'm engaged
And my daughter's down to her last diaper
That's got my ass hyper
I pray that god answers, maybe I'll ask nicer
Watching ballers while they flossing in their pathfinders
These overnight stars becoming autograph signers
We'll all gone blow up and leave the past behind us
Along with the small fry's and average half pinters
While playa haters turn bitch like they have vaginas
Cause we see them dollar signs and let the cash blind us
Money will brainwash you and leave your ass mindless
Snakes slither in the grass spineless
Chorus: repeat 2X
That's Rock Bottom
When this life makes you mad enough to kill
That's Rock Bottom
When you want something bad enough you'll steal
That's Rock Bottom
When you feel you have had it up to here
Cause you mad enough to scream but you sad enough to tear
Verse Two:
My life is full of empty promises
And broken dreams
I'm hoping things will look up
But there ain't no job openings
I feel discouraged hungry and malnourished
Living in this house with no furnace, unfurnished
And I'm sick of working dead end jobs with lame pay
And I'm tired of being hired and fired the same day
But fuck it, if you know the rules to the game play
Cause when we die we know were all going the same way
It's cool to be player, but it sucks to be the fan
When all you need is bucks to be the man
Plus a luxury sedan
Too comfortable and roomy in a six
They threw me in the mix
With all these gloomy lunatics
Walk around depressed
And smoke a pound of ses a day
And yesterday went by so quick it seems like it was just today
My daughter wants to throw the ball but I'm too stressed to play
Live half my life and throw the rest away
Chorus
There's people that love me and people that hate me
But it's the evil that made me this backstabbing, deceitful, and shady
I want the money, the women, the fortune, and the fame
That Means I'll end up burning in hell scorching in flames
That means I'm stealing your checkbook and forging your name
Lifetime bliss for eternal torture and pain
Right now I feel like just hit the rock bottom
I got problems now everybody on my blocks got 'em
I'm screaming like those two cops when 2pac shot 'em
Holding two glocks, I hope your doors got new locks on 'em
My daughter's feet ain't got no shoes or sock's on 'em
And them rings you wearing look like they got a few rocks on 'em
And while you flaunting them I could be taking them to shops to pawn them
I got a couple of rings and a brand new watch you want 'em?
Cause I never went gold of one song
I'm running up on someone's lawns with guns drawn
Chorus
by Sam B.
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 10:13 AM
The point of the bumper sticker was NOT, as one declared, "to bring discussion about the US's role in the middle east, one of oppression and death." The point, in fact, was to assert that this point was true *without* discussion.

The fact is that the Left has never made that case; 9/11 and subsequent events have actually exposed to a wider audience the intellectual nonsense of the Left's arguments. And the Left is despearate to convince themselves that they haven't been wrong all this time.

It is not surprising to see that desperation surface in the form of the bumper sticker. The reaction to it would be predictable: outright disgust at the Left's insult to common people.

The Left needs this. It is the only way that they can satisfy a primal craving for legitamacy that they cannot achieve intellectually or politically. But if they insult enough people to get a negative response, they then feel the response legitimizes their position.

You find this all the time on Indymedia. The issues are not the point - making themselves feel good is. Hence the endless sophmoric demonstrations. The demonstrations are not to make a point to the rest of us; they are subconcious actions of those who need reassurance from each other that they actually have a point. Of course they can never articulate any coherent, rational point. Slogans and assertions, like the above quote, is the highest form of intellectual discourse they can achieve.

So while they anger us with their insults to our intelligence, people like Truth (sic) Bumper, dumbrightist, and others, are getting just what they ask for and desperately need: attention, any way they can get it.

But, of course, don't expect them to support their assertions with any kind of rational argument. That's not the point.

by truthteller
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 10:19 AM
firefighter_in_stairwell2.gif
There isn't a jury in America that would side with the liberal underwear stains of the indypig.
by ya yas
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 11:08 AM
truthteller said, "You forgot to mention the years of Clinton the Rapist, moron. "

I Am no fan of Clinton OR Reagan or any of the corporate-contorlled puppets of the Empire.

TELl me how was CLInton a rapist? PLEase substantiate.
by didn't kiss me first
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 11:30 AM
He pretty muched fucked the whole country with out consent. I'd say that makes him a rapist.
by lulu
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 11:55 AM
smashtheleft, they've been able to trace back more than half of the nazi postings on this site back to your computer. No one is going to believe your lies about neonazis genuinely using indymedia when you are the one who is posting all of that shit.
It isn't legal to do DOS attacks against another institution's property - in the form of a computer forum. You're a criminal and you're already caught.
by Zenobia
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 12:16 PM
Never heard of Juanita Brodderick, Ya Ya?

Or are you suggesting we have to have four male witnesses to substantiate a rape claim, a la Islamic law?
by Zenobia
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 12:19 PM
Never heard of Juanita Brodderick, Ya Ya?

Or are you suggesting we have to have four male witnesses to substantiate a rape claim, a la Islamic law?
by citizen
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 12:23 PM
Thank you for posting the photos with the bumper sticker. When I see the tragic suffering and death which occurred it really brings home that the suffering this country causes is wrong, and that we will suffer more -- whoever the many people involved in the deed of planting the bombs and/or crashing the planes -- and while I don't think the statemnt is correct (it should say, "I am part of the cause of 9/11" or something like that), those photos make it clear how serious our role is and how serious the repercussions can be when we toy with people's lives and rights.

However, it was in bad taste to put the logo of the IMC on those images, because IMC did not create or sponsor your images, it is only holding a news forum. So please remove their logo and repost your important addition to this debate.

I'm using the word "tragedy" because that is what the original poster used. He or she (the "collective") repeatedly called the 9/11 events a tragedy.

And by the way, if you can justify bombing innocent people because of that tragedy, I think others using the same logic have no problem justifying temporary bumper stickers because of the tragedy.

I do think the people who made the bumper sticker probably meant to say, "PROTECT" the United States Constitution, not "UPHOLD".
by citizen
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 12:37 PM
Thank you for posting the photos with the bumper sticker. When I see the tragic suffering and death which occurred it really brings home that the suffering this country causes is wrong, and that we will suffer more -- whoever the many people involved in the deed of planting the bombs and/or crashing the planes -- and while I don't think the statemnt is correct (it should say, "I am part of the cause of 9/11" or something like that), those photos make it clear how serious our role is and how serious the repercussions can be when we toy with people's lives and rights.

However, it was in bad taste to put the logo of the IMC on those images, because IMC did not create or sponsor your images, it is only holding a news forum. So please remove their logo and repost your important addition to this debate.

I'm using the word "tragedy" because that is what the original poster used. He or she (the "collective") repeatedly called the 9/11 events a tragedy.

And by the way, if you can justify bombing innocent people because of that tragedy, I think others using the same logic have no problem justifying temporary bumper stickers because of the tragedy.

I do think the people who made the bumper sticker probably meant to say, "PROTECT" the United States Constitution, not "UPHOLD".
by truthteller
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 12:42 PM
You chose the wrong name. Obviously Komrade would fit a hell of a lot better.

Now fuck off, you traitorous grave pisser.
by truthteller
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 12:42 PM
You chose the wrong name. Obviously Komrade would fit a hell of a lot better.

Now fuck off, you traitorous grave pisser.
by Zenobia
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 12:46 PM
ae) "HELLO??? It's not MY definition of civil disobedience, you idiot. Ever read Thoreau? Gandhi? MLK? They didn't advocate civil disobedience only if you're not likely to get threatened, or even physically assaulted in the process. That's the whole point of civil disobedience and non-violent resistance, moron. You have to be willing to put your own ass on the line for your cause." Ah yes. Well to defer to the fallacy of authority by establishment control of language, my trusty rusty old 1973 Webster's dictionary says "civil disobedience, n: refusal to obey governmental demands or commands esp. as a nonviolent and usu. collective means of focring concessions from the government." Under that dictionary I would concede that yes, the act of posting a bumper sticker may not be civil disobedience as it is not likely to force concessions. But under your definition (independent of what Ghandi and MLK et. al. said), I find that it does adhere to the definition. Given the death threats and other uncivil attitudes posted to this list, I think anyone who posts these without permission is "willing to put [their] ass on the line for [their] cause".

Note that MLK and Ghandi were assassinated.

I'll start with your last "point" first. Of course MLK and Gandhi were assassinated (Gandhi by one of "his own people). But what, pray tell, does that have to do with anything? They weren't assassinated during acts of civil disobedience, but they DID put themselves in danger simply by becoming prominent, public advocates for their respective causes -- and they became prominent advocates for their causes by engaging in PUBLIC, NON-ANONYMOUS acts of civil disobedience. That's not something that can be claimed of the sneaking bumper sticker brigade. By the way, you conveniently left out part of my definition of civil disobedience, as seems appropriate. . . wouldn't want you to have to defer to "the fallacy of authority by establishment control of language." Have you ever read Orwell's "Politics of the English Language"? He would have appreciated that "fallacy of authority" phrase as a wonderful specimen of the degradation of the language.

Second, do you really believe there's a significant risk in placing these bumper stickers because of the threats of some of the posters (which I don't condone)?By that logic, I am committing an act of bravery by owning a house because some leftist wackos on this site have threatened my property and life.

Get a job.

by Antoinette
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 12:48 PM
This kind of clap-trap is why I am a quickly recovering liberal. Evidently, all the years I called myself liberal, I had no idea what liberals really were all about. Thank God I now can see them clearly. And I am so jumping ship. After all, conservatives do have more fun and they don't even have to be disgusting and selfish like these turds.
by c-rock
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 1:32 PM
i think you folks that judge a persons intelligence on how well they spell,or how much college education theyve had,are missing the point abit.there are alot of educated people that are pretty dumb.you can sit here all day and find falts in dis or dat,thats surface crap.you could spend your time in school studying many hours on subjects that arent really relevant,yes they sharpen certain skills,but so do many disciplines that dont require spelling.
by lulu
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 3:08 PM
Uh, smashtheleft (the editorial collective has to keep deleting his 24/7 mass postings here, as he is the only person banned from indymedia, but the comment total on this insane thread would be much higher if his stuff was still here).
See, this whole bumper sticker thing is just an abstract hypothetical concept - in reality no one actually went out and put bumper stickers on any SUVs except the one pictured at the very top. It is merely an idea or potential action that is being discussed, designed to bring up opinions of US deaths vs. deaths caused in Afghanistan in Iraq, whether it's hypocritical to use lots of oil when one is mourning the trace center deaths. Just think for a few seconds, if you can calm down. Have there been any newspaper stories, or any mention at all in any source outside of this indymedia thread about this event? If anyone had actually done this, the SF Examiner which is akin to the NY post in terms of printing inflammatory stories would have been all over it? If you lived in the bay area and brought this up at work or a party, no one will have encountered these bumper stickers or anyone who has . It's all just an idea

The big question is why do so many UC Berkeley Dailycal writers become lying right wing yellow journalists. Smashtheleft - from the Dailycal. Steve Sexton who was behind the fake stories that berkeley was going to have an antiamerica rally on 9/11 and made the Chancellor hold a press conference to denounce him - from the Dailycal. See - the Clinton 'troopergate' scandal was all a big lie by David Brock of the Dailycal: http://www.eastbayexpress.com/issues/2002-05-15/feature.html/1/index.html
by lulu
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 3:09 PM
Uh, smashtheleft (the editorial collective has to keep deleting his 24/7 mass postings here, as he is the only person banned from indymedia, but the comment total on this insane thread would be much higher if his stuff was still here).
See, this whole bumper sticker thing is just an abstract hypothetical concept - in reality no one actually went out and put bumper stickers on any SUVs except the one pictured at the very top. It is merely an idea or potential action that is being discussed, designed to bring up opinions of US deaths vs. deaths caused in Afghanistan in Iraq, whether it's hypocritical to use lots of oil when one is mourning the trace center deaths. Just think for a few seconds, if you can calm down. Have there been any newspaper stories, or any mention at all in any source outside of this indymedia thread about this event? If anyone had actually done this, the SF Examiner which is akin to the NY post in terms of printing inflammatory stories would have been all over it? If you lived in the bay area and brought this up at work or a party, no one will have encountered these bumper stickers or anyone who has . It's all just an idea

The big question is why do so many UC Berkeley Dailycal writers become lying right wing yellow journalists. Smashtheleft - from the Dailycal. Steve Sexton who was behind the fake stories that berkeley was going to have an antiamerica rally on 9/11 and made the Chancellor hold a press conference to denounce him - from the Dailycal. See - the Clinton 'troopergate' scandal was all a big lie by David Brock of the Dailycal: http://www.eastbayexpress.com/issues/2002-05-15/feature.html/1/index.html
by lulu
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 3:10 PM
Uh, smashtheleft (the editorial collective has to keep deleting his 24/7 mass postings here, as he is the only person banned from indymedia, but the comment total on this insane thread would be much higher if his stuff was still here).
See, this whole bumper sticker thing is just an abstract hypothetical concept - in reality no one actually went out and put bumper stickers on any SUVs except the one pictured at the very top. It is merely an idea or potential action that is being discussed, designed to bring up opinions of US deaths vs. deaths caused in Afghanistan in Iraq, whether it's hypocritical to use lots of oil when one is mourning the trace center deaths. Just think for a few seconds, if you can calm down. Have there been any newspaper stories, or any mention at all in any source outside of this indymedia thread about this event? If anyone had actually done this, the SF Examiner which is akin to the NY post in terms of printing inflammatory stories would have been all over it? If you lived in the bay area and brought this up at work or a party, no one will have encountered these bumper stickers or anyone who has . It's all just an idea

The big question is why do so many UC Berkeley Dailycal writers become lying right wing yellow journalists. Smashtheleft - from the Dailycal. Steve Sexton who was behind the fake stories that berkeley was going to have an antiamerica rally on 9/11 and made the Chancellor hold a press conference to denounce him - from the Dailycal. See - the Clinton 'troopergate' scandal was all a big lie by David Brock of the Dailycal: http://www.eastbayexpress.com/issues/2002-05-15/feature.html/1/index.html
by lulu
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 3:10 PM
Uh, smashtheleft (the editorial collective has to keep deleting his 24/7 mass postings here, as he is the only person banned from indymedia, but the comment total on this insane thread would be much higher if his stuff was still here).
See, this whole bumper sticker thing is just an abstract hypothetical concept - in reality no one actually went out and put bumper stickers on any SUVs except the one pictured at the very top. It is merely an idea or potential action that is being discussed, designed to bring up opinions of US deaths vs. deaths caused in Afghanistan in Iraq, whether it's hypocritical to use lots of oil when one is mourning the trace center deaths. Just think for a few seconds, if you can calm down. Have there been any newspaper stories, or any mention at all in any source outside of this indymedia thread about this event? If anyone had actually done this, the SF Examiner which is akin to the NY post in terms of printing inflammatory stories would have been all over it? If you lived in the bay area and brought this up at work or a party, no one will have encountered these bumper stickers or anyone who has . It's all just an idea

The big question is why do so many UC Berkeley Dailycal writers become lying right wing yellow journalists. Smashtheleft - from the Dailycal. Steve Sexton who was behind the fake stories that berkeley was going to have an antiamerica rally on 9/11 and made the Chancellor hold a press conference to denounce him - from the Dailycal. See - the Clinton 'troopergate' scandal was all a big lie by David Brock of the Dailycal: http://www.eastbayexpress.com/issues/2002-05-15/feature.html/1/index.html
by lulu
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 3:11 PM
Uh, smashtheleft (the editorial collective has to keep deleting his 24/7 mass postings here, as he is the only person banned from indymedia, but the comment total on this insane thread would be much higher if his stuff was still here).
See, this whole bumper sticker thing is just an abstract hypothetical concept - in reality no one actually went out and put bumper stickers on any SUVs except the one pictured at the very top. It is merely an idea or potential action that is being discussed, designed to bring up opinions of US deaths vs. deaths caused in Afghanistan in Iraq, whether it's hypocritical to use lots of oil when one is mourning the trace center deaths. Just think for a few seconds, if you can calm down. Have there been any newspaper stories, or any mention at all in any source outside of this indymedia thread about this event? If anyone had actually done this, the SF Examiner which is akin to the NY post in terms of printing inflammatory stories would have been all over it? If you lived in the bay area and brought this up at work or a party, no one will have encountered these bumper stickers or anyone who has . It's all just an idea

The big question is why do so many UC Berkeley Dailycal writers become lying right wing yellow journalists. Smashtheleft - from the Dailycal. Steve Sexton who was behind the fake stories that berkeley was going to have an antiamerica rally on 9/11 and made the Chancellor hold a press conference to denounce him - from the Dailycal. See - the Clinton 'troopergate' scandal was all a big lie by David Brock of the Dailycal: http://www.eastbayexpress.com/issues/2002-05-15/feature.html/1/index.html
by My dogma was run over...
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 3:47 PM
m111201.jpg
Here we see the legendary SmashtheLeft with his date at a recent party.

....sucker.
by a reclaimer
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 7:04 PM
Lulu:

Good question!

Watching the editorial board be taken over by such lameness was difficult to understand.

On the one hand they seem so incompetent. On the other hand on would expect guile to have played a role. So, how did they do it?
by claude balls
Monday Sep 16th, 2002 10:02 PM
How does lulu know no stickers were really placed on any vehicles? Does it have proof? Sounds like lulu will do anything to rationalize irrelevant scum. And as far as Berkely, she/he is an outright liar. The Chancellor had to change his tune from catching heat. lulu is dishonest, like most libereals are.
by Ya ya yadda yada yadd ya a
Tuesday Sep 17th, 2002 12:10 AM
No I have not read Orwell's "Politics of the English Language" although I am now interested, thank you. However you really lost credibility with me when you resorted to retort-ed, "Get a job".

I did a web search and have been reading how people (perhaps yourself included) have referenced that work by Orwell.

This one was of interest:

http://www.yaleherald.com/frosharticle.php?Article=306

Particularly the quote, "The words democracy, socialism, freedom, patriotic, realistic, justice have each of them several different meanings which cannot be reconciled with one another...Words of this kind are often used in a consciously dishonest way. That is, the person who uses them has his own private definition, but allows the hearer to think he [sic] means something quite different."

Well now I do not believe that Yada Yada was trying to trick anyone terribly by using the term, "Civil Disobedience", but thank whoever pointed out that its contemporary meaning may refer primarily to a form of protest which is very open and public. I think that a bumper sticker brigade would have more power if it was open and public, and thank you for that. In any event, despite the many meanings for the term "direct action", I think that the term "direct action" would more honestly and accurately describe anyone who was posting bumper flyers without being public about it.

Actually

But I want to interject (sorry if that is too large a word to respect Orwell's essay) that use of language is a wonderful thing and can help bring us closer to truth. While "large" words may obfuscate, they may also clarify if none other will do, and I believe Orwell's thesis supported that. Think of the great writers who employed a vast and formidable vocabulary. Shakespeare, for instance, is alleged to have had the largest vocabulary of any writer in the history of the human race (25,000 words). Was he a good writer? :)

Well perhaps a bit unclear. But he really worked the language. He got his conceptual fingers into it so deeply that he was putting the clay together and making new words, making whole worlds with words.

James Joyce comes to mind.

There's another danger in criticizing those who try to use language to its fullest, that of compulsive anti-intellectualism. While I don't think everyone should be an intellectual, or vice versa, people would do well to understand their limitations and value their differing abilities.

One more thing I found about Orwell's book, from an English assignment somewhere:

[BEGIN]

Here are two versions of a passage from the Bible (Ecclesiastes 9.11). The first is the real thing, and the second is Orwell's “modernization” of it:

I returned and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favor to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

Objective consideration of contemporary phenomena compels the conclusion that success or failure in competitive activities exhibits no tendency to be commensurate with innate capacity, but that a considerable element of the unpredictable must invariably be taken into account.

Finally, Orwell's six rules for writing good prose, which must invariably be taken into account:

1. “Never use a metaphor, simile, or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print.”

2. “Never use a long word where a short one will do.”

3. “If it is possible to cut a word out, always cut it out.”

4. “Never use the passive [voice] where you can use the active.”

5. “Never use a foreign phrase, a scientific word, or a jargon word if you can think of an everyday English equivalent.”

6. “Break any of these rules sooner than say anything outright barbarous.” From “The Politics of the English Language” in Elements of Argument. A.T. Rottenberg, Boston: St. Martin's, 1991.

[END]

What's weird about that is I'm not sure whether he liked the bible version more or his version. Seems like the Bible version violated his rules as well.

I'd like to see the "Orwell preferred" version.

Oh well, or, Or's well that Ends Well.
by yoda yoda
Tuesday Sep 17th, 2002 12:35 AM
Check it out, here's a guy not afraid to show his face while he posts some truth on a bumper:

http://www.changingtheclimate.com/tagger.html

The whole site is excellent:

http://www.changingtheclimate.com

Don't bother calling them Liberals (or libereals), you don't understand the term. Just enjoy the public nature of their righteous actions.

Or in Orwell speak,

Like it.
by vandal, interrupted
Tuesday Sep 17th, 2002 3:25 AM
before_and_after.gif
Here's a scene we'd really like. Two thumbs up!
by ikol
Tuesday Sep 17th, 2002 5:54 AM
before and after huh? thats not even the same guy lame-o. before guy has got graying hair for fucks sake. LAME!
by X2
Tuesday Sep 17th, 2002 6:07 AM
hmmm. You know this may sound really odd. But could Brock and STL be one and the same???
by anarchist
Tuesday Sep 17th, 2002 9:13 AM
But whoever it was, they aren't anarchists. No anarchists would ever complain about the US Constitution not being upheld. This is the work of statists.
by not lame
Tuesday Sep 17th, 2002 11:12 AM
pretty lame........
by ikol • Tuesday September 17, 2002 at 05:54 AM

before and after huh? thats not even the same guy lame-o. before guy has got graying hair for fucks sake. LAME!**

Just how old are you? I think even the libbies can see that, lame as they usually are.

by Fineupstanding citizen
Tuesday Sep 17th, 2002 12:19 PM
hmmm, seems to me that *YOU* are the one that has a daddy fixation. Not I.
by leaf
Tuesday Sep 17th, 2002 12:39 PM
So the tagger won't go to jail - as the WSJ points out - but you will! Excellent! Even threatening him will bring you more jail time and restraining orders on your record than his tagging! Perfect!
by Andrew S. (shoutingboy [at] attbi.com)
Tuesday Sep 17th, 2002 1:12 PM
< a href="http://www.bobfromaccounting.com/9_11/shutyourpiehole.html" target=w>Bush Launches 'Operation Shut-Your-Piehole' Against European Leaders

My president, Indymedia clowns. Yours too. And there's not a damned thing you can do about it. (Well, you could learn how to vote, but the news from Florida isn't promising on that count...)
by Andrew S. (shoutingboy [at] attbi.com)
Tuesday Sep 17th, 2002 1:14 PM
<a href="http://www.bobfromaccounting.com/9_11/shutyourpiehole.html" target=w>Bush Launches 'Operation Shut-Your-Piehole' Against European Leaders

My president, Indymedia clowns. Yours too. And there's not a damned thing you can do about it. (Well, you could learn how to vote, but the news from Florida isn't promising on that count...)
by leaf
Tuesday Sep 17th, 2002 1:23 PM
Thanks for the link!
http://www.bobfromaccounting.com/6_19/marthaprison.html
by Jan
Tuesday Sep 17th, 2002 1:43 PM
I have my own bumper sticker. It says:

THE DRIVER OF THIS VEHICLE IS A PROUD EX-MEMBER OF THE UNITED STATES FORCE. IF IT WERE NOT FOR PEOPLE LIKE ME, THE LIBERAL DIMWITS IN THE UNITED STATES WOULD HAVE BEEN ASSISINATED FOR THEIR TREASON AND THEIR STUPIDITY LONG AGO".
by Jan
Tuesday Sep 17th, 2002 1:46 PM
I have my own bumper sticker. It says:

THE DRIVER OF THIS VEHICLE IS A PROUD EX-MEMBER OF THE UNITED STATES FORCE. IF IT WERE NOT FOR PEOPLE LIKE ME, THE LIBERAL DIMWITS IN THE UNITED STATES WOULD HAVE BEEN ASSISINATED FOR THEIR TREASON AND THEIR STUPIDITY LONG AGO".
by Jan
Tuesday Sep 17th, 2002 1:47 PM
I have my own bumper sticker. It says:

THE DRIVER OF THIS VEHICLE IS A PROUD EX-MEMBER OF THE UNITED STATES FORCE. IF IT WERE NOT FOR PEOPLE LIKE ME, THE LIBERAL DIMWITS IN THE UNITED STATES WOULD HAVE BEEN ASSISINATED FOR THEIR TREASON AND THEIR STUPIDITY LONG AGO".
by Bollocks
Tuesday Sep 17th, 2002 4:40 PM
Exactly what is the "UNITED STATES FORCE"?

Laughing all the way to the VA.

319th MI Bn (Abn/CEWI)
Fort Bragg, NC

"Never trust a Drill Sergeant"
by vandal, interrupted
Tuesday Sep 17th, 2002 11:13 PM
**To vandal interrupted
by leaf • Tuesday September 17, 2002 at 12:39 PM

So the tagger won't go to jail - as the WSJ points out - but you will! Excellent! Even threatening him will bring you more jail time and restraining orders on your record than his tagging! Perfect!**

Tell us, pious lefty, exactly where does the WSJ say a word about a tagger not going to jail? Please be specific. Give examples. And for all you asswipes who think it's okay to vandalize other people's property, how can anybody seriously believe you want to take care of the planet? You haven't the slightest clue what respect is. Mother Earth will soon enough be in danger from you clueless preprogrammed asswipes.
by | :)
Tuesday Sep 17th, 2002 11:27 PM
ok then. lead by example and quit defacing this site, which is someone else's property, troll. Until then I'll assume you promote the bumper action.
by all out
Tuesday Sep 17th, 2002 11:41 PM
wh_95.jpgrq9457.jpg
set your sights higher folx!
by Frank Rizzo
Wednesday Sep 18th, 2002 4:09 PM
If I see any of you anti-semetic, intellectually bankrupt sacks of shit anywhere near my car or my property I will kill you. I will then take your wallet and use the ID within to track down your family and kill [i]them[/i], as well as any pets you may have. Not that you should mind this, since by eliminating so many people from the planet I'll have done the environment a favor.
by Bollocks
Wednesday Sep 18th, 2002 4:19 PM
So.....which of the trolls are you going to start with?
by this thing here
Wednesday Sep 18th, 2002 4:59 PM
For starters, buttocks, how about you, you useless piece of traitorous shit?
by Tom Paine-in-the-ass
Thursday Sep 19th, 2002 12:43 AM
treason to the rest of humanity.
by redsam
Thursday Sep 19th, 2002 12:57 AM
To be a patriot is to be a murderer.
by   
Thursday Sep 19th, 2002 1:05 AM
"Mooladhara is the lowest chakra in human beings, but the highest in animals. It is the chakra of group consciousness, in which animals live, and also humans who identify themselves only by family, nationality, race and religion, not yet able to detach from the group-soul and embrace their own individuality and independence. It is an energy which, in its most negative aspect, is heavily at work in all ethnic wars."

"In its positive aspect the first chakra inspires us to be loving, passionate and warm, compassionate to those with whom we share our identity in family relationships and in the context of community and nation. It creates unity, common goals and responsibilities between like-minded people."

http://www.alternativeculture.com/spirit/chakra.htm

by Bollocks
Thursday Sep 19th, 2002 7:59 AM
Sorry, I'll simplify my statement to fit your abilitys:

Troll bad, spank troll, you bad troll.

by mista leepie
Thursday Sep 19th, 2002 3:09 PM
"But whoever it was, they aren't anarchists. No anarchists would ever complain about the US Constitution not being upheld. This is the work of statists."

Maybe someone was being sarcastic about people's integrity...holding all these USA flags and then not even protecting the supposed principles of the USA...
by context and thought
Friday Sep 20th, 2002 11:50 AM
The U.S. Constitution, while certainly statist, was a major break from the general conceptualisation of government throughout the (governed) world. For the first time the principle of foundation was held to suggest that government is not a high power over people but that government should be subservient to people, to be "by and for the people".

In practice, this is no longer the case, if it ever were, however the general principles which many "Americans" hold should appeal at least in part to those who identify as anarchist. While many view the distinction between anarchism and democracy as very strict, others view anarchism as at least related to a form of democracy. This is not to suggest that the current system in the U.S. is a democracy, just another way of saying that age old adage that "most people agree with anarchism most of the time".

So, let's put it to a vote. (Just joking).

I can understand any impulse to hold people to the system they submit to if only to point out its weaknesses. If you enjoy the privilege of the U.S. and are under the delusion that you live in the greatest country in the world, with righteous principles, freedom, and democracy, perhaps you should apply that delusion to the facts and realize that your freedom doesn't come free and if you wish to believe you live under this system and own it, then act with principle under it.

I think if anything, someone who is urging people to consider the foundations of their submittance to control and misrepresentation is hoping they will wake up to the harsh realities.

When they do so they may begin to wonder what solution might avail itself, and in the process may come to consider anarchism.

Anarchism: all the freedom, without the delusion.

The scary thing about this type of approach is that it can be mistaken to suggest that those who live in a country are responsible for their government. This would support the bombing of Iraq and sanctions against Iraq, for instance. And also might be taken to support that U.S. citizens deserve to be bombed when "they" bomb others.

I would interpret this to suggest that the degree of complicity moderates the degree of culpability.

If you own a big huge SUV with a U.S. flag on it, you have crossed a line into supporting attrocities and engaging in war along with the madmen who have usurped all semblance of democratic control.

Just a few thoughts, bring on the infantile flames.
by slaps your bumper
Friday Sep 20th, 2002 4:48 PM
Maybe this is of interest to the question of the ideology of the originator(s) of this idea.

"Chaos, unbound by definition and forms, doesn't hold individuals captive in idealogical cages. Free to interact as circumstances dictate, the chaotic individual's relation to society is more akin to a stingray lying in wait, buried in the sand, a covert beserker, a warrior constantly on the attack against societal constraints and imposed roles and morals, who chooses when to strike, when to blend in amongst the sheep while moving on to the next battle, as benefits the struggle against oppressive forces, rendezvousing with other beserkers to celebrate their liberated times and places, to share their plunder, their joy, their love of life!"

From http://www.spunk.org/texts/misc/sp001890.html

"Anarchy is not Anarchism"

Note in comments to story:

http://indybay.org/news/2002/09/149789
by shrink rap
Monday Sep 23rd, 2002 10:32 AM
>If I see any of you anti-semetic, intellectually bankrupt sacks of shit anywhere near my car or my property I will kill you. I will then take your wallet and use the ID within to track down your family and kill [i]them[/i], as well as any pets you may have. Not that you should mind this, since by eliminating so many people from the planet I'll have done the environment a favor.


You’re a sick, sick man. You need professional help. See a therapist immediately.

http://www.mentalhealth.org/publications/allpubs/ADM90-537/fmrefer.asp
by Some Poor Schmuck
Saturday Sep 28th, 2002 5:48 PM
When the Bumper Sticker debate first started over the "climate change" stickers, I came up with the following solution.
I collect unused Bush-Cheney stickers and put them on top of "Green" stickers. It would work just as well with the "I caused 911" stickers
by communist
Tuesday Oct 1st, 2002 6:10 AM
Use oil improperly. Therefore, carve your message in with keys in dead of night. Be sneaky and do it to many cars and get away to do something else tomorrow. "Hypocrisy" unnecessary. Trees and plastic saved. Yay! Now, laugh at private property.
by the right is wrong
Thursday Oct 3rd, 2002 12:19 AM
lametvali.jpgp37668.jpg
mullets are us.
by blablabla (blablabla@tatatat)
Wednesday Oct 16th, 2002 4:22 PM
very good, fuck the...
by mass media maestro
Wednesday Oct 30th, 2002 1:10 PM
This thread has been quiet for too long. Here's an on-topic article from salon.com. And a follow-up article, too. Lucky you!

http://www.salon.com/news/col/huff/2002/10/22/oil/index.html?x

An ad George Bush should love
"I helped blow up a Bali nightclub -- by driving my SUV to work every day!"

- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Arianna Huffington



Oct. 22, 2002 | The Bush team's ridiculous and wildly inflammatory anti-drug ads are still running in heavy rotation. You know the ads I'm talking about -- the ones where innocent-looking, middle-class teens admit their culpability for the consequences of the drug trade. "I helped blow up buildings," says one doe-eyed youth.

So if that is legitimate logic, and our president says that it is, I wonder if we might turn the tables on him by starting a little ad campaign of our own to sabotage another misguided Bush campaign: the War on Conservation.


The thought occurred to me after the startling announcement that the administration was taking precious time off from an actual, necessary war -- the one on terrorism -- to sue the state of California for daring to require that carmakers put more energy-efficient models on the road.

Turning the letter of the federal Clean Air Act against its clear intent, Department of Justice lawyers lined up on behalf of the administration's friends in the hydrocarbon-loving auto-manufacturing industry and argued that as long as California's cars are in compliance with the lax federal standard, the state cannot impose a tougher one. For those keeping score, the Bush administration is in favor of states' rights when the states want to weaken federal safety standards of any kind, and against states' rights when the states want stronger measures.


So how about using the same shock-value tactics the administration uses in the drug war to confront the public with the ultimate -- and much more linearly linked -- consequences of their energy wastefulness? Imagine a soccer mom in a Ford Excursion (11 mpg city, 15 mpg highway) saying, "I'm building a nuclear bomb for Saddam Hussein." Or a mob of solo drivers toodling down the freeway at 75 mph shouting in unison, "We're buying weapons that will kill American soldiers, Marines and sailors! Yahoo!"

It's not just a fantasy. Last week, talking to my friend Scott Burns, co-creator of the "Got Milk?" campaign, I was delighted to hear that he already had two ad scripts ready to go. The first one feels like an old Slim Fast commercial. Instead of "I lost 50 pounds in two weeks" the ad cuts to different people in their SUVs: "I gassed 40,000 Kurds," "I helped hijack an airplane," "I helped blow up a nightclub," and then in unison: "We did it all by driving to work in our SUVs."

The second, which opens on a man at a gas station, features a cute kid's voice-over throughout: "This is George." Then we see a close-up of a gas pump. "This is the gas George buys for his car." Next we see a guy in a suit. "This is the oil company executive who makes money on the gas George buys." Close-up on al-Qaida training film footage: "This is the terrorist organization supported by money from the country where the oil company does business." It's followed by footage of 9/11: "We all know what this is." And it closes on a wide shot of bumper-to-bumper traffic: "The biggest weapon of mass destruction is parked in your driveway." Pretty effective.

Can the administration seriously deny that oil dollars do, actually, finance a spreading slick of evil in the world today? In Iraq, oil money has kept Saddam's repressive regime afloat even in the midst of tough U.N. sanctions. According to a report just released by the CIA, Saddam has been spending his oil money on conventional arms and weapons of mass destruction, while starving and torturing his own people.

In Saudi Arabia, our second largest foreign supplier of oil, the money you spend at the pump over here pays for a feudal monarchy that gorges itself on excess while bankrolling terrorist mischief abroad with its support of suicide bombers.

Even our close ally Kuwait, our 11th largest oil supplier, manifests an ambivalence toward America that, if you accept the Bush administration's drug-war arguments about the validity of remote effects, resulted in this month's assassination of an American Marine on military exercises. Thank you, Exxon.

Would it be so painful for us to slow down the intravenous drip of oil that keeps these hideously anti-American regimes alive? There are car companies with electric and hybrid cars already on the market. And a little pressure on our wasteful ways could unleash a new wave of good old American inventiveness.

But instead of applying the marketing skills it uses for its wrongheaded drug war to the eminently worthwhile cause of saving energy, Bush Inc. has sided with the Enrons of the world to stifle energy-saving technology and keep America in an artificially prolonged state of dependence.

Of course, waiting for the Bush administration to get religion on energy conservation would be about as fruitful as waiting for Saddam to welcome U.S. inspectors to his palaces. It ain't gonna happen. Unless, that is, the public makes it happen. Anyone willing to pay for a people's ad campaign to jolt our leaders into reality?

===

About the writer
Arianna Huffington is a nationally syndicated columnist and author of eight books. Her most recent, "How to Overthrow the Government," was published in 2000 by Regan Books (HarperCollins).
http://www.ariannaonline.com/

Sound Off
Send us a Letter to the Editor

=====================================

http://www.salon.com/news/col/huff/2002/10/29/suv_ad/index.html

More on the SUV ad fund
We've lined up a producer and director -- and now you can contribute online!

- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Arianna Huffington



Oct. 29, 2002 | We've had an overwhelming response to the suggestion in my column that we mount a citizens' ad campaign aimed at getting people to stop driving SUVs and other gas-guzzling vehicles -- and jolting our leaders into taking action.

It's been a busy and productive week. Lawrence Bender, producer of "Pulp Fiction" and "Good Will Hunting," and director Scott Burns, co-creator of the "Got Milk?" ad campaign, have agreed to donate their services to make these ads a reality through A Band Apart, Bender's production company. To get these ads on the air we are establishing a nonprofit fund for the sole purpose of creating them.


Many of you have asked where you can contribute. The Natural Resources Defense Council was kind enough to take donations for an interim period, but now that we've got our independent fund up and running, please send your donations to:

SUV Ad Fund/A Band Apart
7966 Beverly Blvd. 2nd Floor
Los Angeles, CA 90048



If you would prefer to make your contribution online using PayPal, please use this link.

https://www.paypal.com/xclick/business=phanl%40abandapart.com&item_name=SUV+Ad+Fund

Thank you so much for taking a stand.
by osama
Thursday Oct 31st, 2002 12:40 AM
http://www.spies.com/~gus/osama/

"...if only four of our most charismatic brothers opted for Ford Excursions over Honda Civics in their neighborhoods, the resulting wave of SUV purchasing in America would yield a net increase in oil prices of some four American cents per barrel, resulting in 550 million more dollars for Saudi Arabian charities in the year 2002 alone. Since the chief beneficiary of this money would be the Right Honourable Mullah Osama bin Laden, you must surely see the value of this campaign..."

by Andrew O'Kelley
Friday Dec 6th, 2002 8:30 AM
It's a odd that so many people are so bored that these types of issues waste time and energy that could be better applied. Blame in this world is nobody's or it's everyone's. But, I don't believe in blame or guilt because no human being can know enough to predict ultimate outcome of any event linearly or othewise. Guilt may be felt but it's unnecessary. Most of us are, or see, ourselves as limited, finite. Yet we still have the enitirely untenable idea that we can cause complex events when many of us admit that we don't clearly understand our own motives, or if not, later in life question those motives depending on how things look after time has past. As we get older we say things like, " Well I guess in the final analysis all that ----------------( fill in what you like) never made a difference,or really doesn't matter,or ended up getting the opposite of what I wanted or ....... on and on.....Historians change versions of history as history goes on.... we really don't know where we came from or where we are going. I'm not a nihlist and I do believe I can do the best I can as I see it. But I won't pretend to have a clue as to how you or anyone else see's it, except to say I don't see it like most of the respondents here and I don't intend to call anybody names because you disagree or not with this issue or even what I'm writing here. Life is a miracle and a privilege. It's also facsinating. So try to play nice.
by oh shit!
Sunday Dec 8th, 2002 3:35 PM
dude! the IMC Editorial Policy is threatening to unseat BUMP OF TRUTH as the longstanding top scorer in the Indybay virtual DiscussionWar real-life controversy videogame!

ohshitohshitohshitohshitohshitohshitohshitohshitohshitohshitohshitohshitohshitohshitohshitohshitohshit

better bump some quick!
by click this
Sunday Dec 8th, 2002 10:22 PM
http://www.indybay.org/news/2002/12/1548433.php
by paully d.
Sunday Dec 8th, 2002 10:27 PM
Howdy partner! I just wanted to advocate your stance on activists brutal attacks on people who embody the social/environmental injustices (fur coat eg.). It is true that some activists do not realize the importance of true grassroots activism in the way of non violent resisitance. I wish that people could ultimately express thier concerns in a manner where people heard the message and not a threat. unfortunately, this is all too often the case. When someone takes a position that is subsequently in the way of thier own personal life they act in sometimes vicious ways. This could quite possiblly be the case in your reluctance to accept altetnatives to transportation that would require you to leave behind your stylish auto. Moreover, on a personal note, a social phychologist, as you claim to be, would certainly understand the importance of the communicating an idea without attacking anothers point of view. Therein, a message is siphoned through the a defensive stance. I wish you the best in finding the common ground.
by vegetarian road kill
Sunday Dec 8th, 2002 10:38 PM
vegetarian-road-kill-medium.jpg
just when you thought the horror was too much

vegetarian road kill.

this link: http://www.pbase.com/image/2802948

for the extra large version
by even worse
Sunday Dec 8th, 2002 10:44 PM
image002.jpg
the heartlessness of roadbuilding
rolls ever on
it'll roll over you next
by great idea, but...
Saturday Dec 21st, 2002 9:05 PM
This is a great idea but, i think they are too big to fit on a bike frame.

Remember, all the assholes who ride bikes also?

We certainly want to harrass them, stop them, vandalize their bikes, and then let them go on right?

Also, do you know where i should pick up my black shirt?
by from the creator
Monday Dec 23rd, 2002 12:43 AM
Here is the fundamental problem with the whole "I caused 9/11" wheat glue approach:

You can't educate, enlighten or embarrass people if you simultaneously piss them off.

You can create the most rational, well-reasoned message for your cause... but if the transmission of that message involves damaging people’s hard earned property you defeat yourself. The importance of your message is lost in their rage.

It’s like using chalk instead of spray paint to write your messages across walls and sidewalks. One conveys a thought… something to consider. The other says “I don’t respect you or your property.” So why should they respect your ideas?

That’s why I decided to make the “I drive like an asshole” stickers magnetic. They cause no damage to the car. And if I ever discover they do, I will stop making them. People keep asking me why I don’t just use regular stickers. Because that changes everything. A magnet is easy to remove and causes no damage. That leaves nothing but embarrassment and reflection for the driver. But if they have to spend 20 minutes scraping glue off their car they will no longer care about your message… in fact, they’ll be happy to spite you.

I’ve tested these magnetic stickers extensively on my small pickup – yes I drive a less-than-fuel-efficient vehicle. But I have it because I need it. When I do drive my truck, I move lots of gear. I go camping. I help friends move. And I ride my bicycle to work and back every single day. I ride my bicycle 20 minutes to my girlfriend’s whenever I can. I try to be “one less car” whenever possible. I’m doing my best.

The problems with SUV’s is not their existence, it is their use by people that don’t need them. I’d like to see you sell a 45mpg VW to someone in Montana that has a horse trailer to tow. SUVs in an urban environment are stupid and inefficient. And so is driving a Honda Insight in the Rockies.

So to all you angry “liberals” if you really have a message to deliver, find a constructive way to deliver your ideas. Stop vandalizing property and acting surprised when people get pissed and want to kick your ass.

And to all you angry “conservatives” eager to beat the shit out of someone because they think your car is wasteful - if you drive a full size off-road quad cab truck/Ford Expedition and have never used 4WD, never taken it off a paved road, never completely filled the bed with gear, you are squandering our fossil fuels and are endangering those people driving small, practical and economical vehicles.

Stop alleviating your anger and frustration with the world by making someone angry. Be responsible and respectful with your ideas and opinions. That is how you change things without alienating yourself.
by bumpie boombah boh
Thursday Dec 26th, 2002 6:52 PM
Some nice graphics in this little spread, if you happen upon the paper magazine. Looks like the grassroots efforts like the Bump of Truth Collective's here are going mainstream. It's about time!

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101021223-399996,00.html

N O T E B O O K
Big-Tire Backlash
By REBECCA WINTERS



Monday, Dec. 23, 2002
What do evangelical Christians, Hollywood liberals and anyone stuck in traffic behind a Range Rover have in common? A desire to rethink the American love affair with the sport-utility vehicle (SUV), which accounts for 27% of new-auto sales. A national television ad campaign will be launched in January linking gas guzzlers to the war on terror. One commercial opens with an image of an SUV driver pumping gas, followed by stock footage of a terrorist training camp. The closing text reads, "What is your SUV doing to the world?" The two 30-second spots are the project of Laurie David, wife of comedian Larry David, along with political pundit Arianna Huffington and others. The campaign, written and directed by the man behind the "Got Milk?" ads, is the latest of several attempts — many spurred by 9/11 and the prospect of a war in Iraq — to convince Americans that buying a car is a moral exercise.

From the Dec. 23, 2002 issue of TIME magazine

by elle
Wednesday Jan 8th, 2003 7:27 PM
Yeah, people freak over just the concept of these stickers, even though only some samples were actually placed on cars, but when Arianna Huffington does her commercials, she gets respectful press: New TV commercials link gas-guzzling SUVs to terrorism funding

NADA EL SAWY, Associated Press Writer

(01-08) 17:36 PST LOS ANGELES (AP) --

A group hoping to lessen U.S. reliance on foreign oil on Wednesday debuted two television ads that link gas-guzzling sport utility vehicles to terrorist funding.

The ads mimic spots that link drug money to terrorism.

One commercial features a child's voiceover and shows a man filling his gas tank and footage of terrorist training. The closing statement: "Oil money supports some terrible things. What kind of mileage does your SUV get?"

The other ad shows people talking about their SUVs. One says, "My kids think it's cool." Another says, "I helped blow up a nightclub."

The 30-second ads were created for The Detroit Project, a nonprofit launched by syndicated columnist Arianna Huffington. They will begin airing Sunday in New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco, Washington and Detroit.

"This campaign is not designed to demonize SUV owners," Huffington said. "We want to encourage customers to connect the dots and make socially responsible consumer choices."

The ads were written and directed by Scott Burns, who was part of the creative team responsible for "Got Milk." They are intended as parodies, Burns said.

The ads were turned down by several TV stations -- WABC in New York, KABC and KCBS in Los Angeles and WDIV in Detroit, according to campaign publicists Fenton Communications.

Huffington said the stations found them "controversial." The ads will air on "Face the Nation" and "Meet the Press" on Sunday.

The Detroit Project was created by Americans for Fuel Efficient Cars, a group co-founded by Huffington, film producer Lawrence Bender, environmental activist Laurie David, and movie and TV agent Ari Emanuel.

The ads -- which cost $50,000 to make and $175,000 for air time -- were paid for through donations.

Sam Kazman, general counsel of the Competitive Enterprise Institute, criticized the ads as "elitist nonsense." The institute is a business lobby that favors a nongovernment approach to regulatory issues.
§a
by concerned jew
Thursday Jan 16th, 2003 1:08 PM
what a load of bullshit.
i guess you have all the fucking answers.
by one of the editors
Thursday Jan 16th, 2003 6:37 PM
A comment by "Cecilia Olsson" was removed because it was anti-Semitic propaganda. Sorry we didn't see it sooner. If you happen to see something like this that we missed, please write and tell us. Be sure to include the URL.

We can be reached at:

imc-sf-editorial [at] indymedia.org
by Lee Clermont
Friday Jan 31st, 2003 4:17 PM
For you people putting stickers on the SUV's. Are they the only means of transportation that uses oil. If your responsible for placing stickers on SUV's what the hell are you driving. Ever been on a plane, or in cab or bus? Do you own a car? Stop showing your how ignorant you really are! I bet your driving around in your car using up gas searching for SUV's to put bumber stickers on! Duh!!!
by C.Campbell
Saturday Feb 1st, 2003 4:16 AM
Hey lemmings, underneath that sticker why don't you put one that says "I'm an idiot with dumb arguments based on false logic, but a clever catchphrase." And you can put that one next to "Jesus drives a Hummer but only because he doesn't want road salt on his Ferrari"
by DemiArthos
Friday Feb 7th, 2003 7:39 PM
Just to let you know, only 10% of our oil comes from the middle east. 90% comes from South America. It's a common misconception.
by Bill Halverson (Bill [at] netpros.net)
Thursday Mar 13th, 2003 3:49 PM
Saying "we" caused 9-11 is like saying the Jews caused Hitler to eliminate them.

by Leftists R. Liars
Thursday Oct 2nd, 2003 11:07 AM
To paraphrase a line from my favorite movie, "It'd almost be worth them doing if I coulda caught the little prick"

Actions like this are the hallmark of the gutless leftists in America. I'd beat you like harp seal if I ever caught you greasy, hophead, hackey-sack playing cretins anywhere near my vehicle. Your mommies should've have given you greaseballs a good slap across the mouth when they had the chance.

Grow up, losers.
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