Why I Am a Pro-Palestinian Activist

"At first - I was for a two state solution but now...."

I am for peace. A two state solution is the only viable solution.

Anyone advocating a one state solution should indeed call him self Pro-Palestinian (or more acuratly anti-Israeli and anti-jewish) - one state would mean turning the only jewish home land to one more arab state.

I support self determination for Palestinians but it seeems that you do not support self-determination for the jewish people.

It is no wonder that you arrived to such a final solution as the one state because you do not know the true history of the conflict. Look at :

http://kurdweb.humanrights.de/

http://www.infoclick.org

And do something for the kurds which are at much worse shape than the Palestinian but do not have such a strong lobby supported by oil money

These days I am pretty up in the air. I'm waiting to be convinced. I used to be a supporter of the one state solution. Now I am not so sure. I'll outline my agreements and disagreements with both sides and perhaps some one of you could help me decide which is the more logical choice.

ONE STATE SOLUTION
Agreements: It appeals to my sense of secularism. It promises a fully democratic sort of solution. It alleviates the possibility of a one-sided government. It provides for an objective police force. It provides for an objective press. It also renders the question of the settlements as irrelevant.
Disagreements: Nothing in the original Israeli Declaration of Independance prohibits full participation by Palestinians; in fact they are encouraged and freedom of religion is guaranteed, along with most other modern civil rights (obviously this has been perverted by Sharon but it doesn't change the fact). See http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH00hb0

TWO STATE SOLUTION
Agreements: This solution provides for a nation for Jewish people, who otherwise might become the Gypsies of the Middle East. Nothing prohibits Israel from acknowledging and amending its current state of apartheid. As a sort of defensive argument for this I will say that England is an English nation, even with a legally entrenched class (the nobility) who are racially English, yet no one calls for the abolishment of England despite the fact it too has settlements in occupied territories (N. Ireland). Instead the solution is seen as granting a separate state to the Northern Irish and giving them self-determination.

Disagreements: both states could be used as platforms for war or terrorism against the other. Border disputes. The question of the settlements beyond the 1967 borders. The question of Jerusalem and the Dome of the Rock / Temple Mount. Do Palestinians ejected in the 40s and 50s have a right of return? Who has the better land, Israel or Palestine; if Israel has taken all the good land, how is that fair to the Palestinian nation? Will Palestinians be given equal rights to immigration? What is to prevent the young untested gov't of Palestine from allowing itself to be used as an extremist HQ? Who is to prevent the US or other external gov'ts from using either state as a proxy army? Won't these 2 new states see things in a more subjective way than a single state would?

OK - now enlighten me, folks :)

A two state solution does not address the problem of the four million Palestinians who have a right to a return to what is now mainland Israel. They live in squalid refugee camps or are scattered throughout the world.

When Russia was preventing Jews from emigrating to Israel, the media condemned it and sited the UN resolution that stated that all people have a right to leave their country. That same resolution states in the same sentence that people also have the right to return to their country. This part was conveniently left out of the media: "All people have a right to leave their country and to return to it."

So millions of Jews around the world have a "right to return" to Israel, but Palestinians kicked out of there do not. This is not a just solution.

Security for Jews is not going to be guaranteed by owning a peice of land they unapologetically wrenched from their once peaceful neighbors. This is not the way to peace. The way to peace is to admit your mistakes, and attempt to find out what can be done to right past wrongs. South African whites were able to do this, why not Israeli Jews?

Real security for worldwide Jewry comes from assimilation in the societies within which they currently exist -- not in forcibly creating a state amidst people you make into your enemies by your actions. This should all be common sense, but the fact that it must be stated shows just how skewed world opinion is on the topic.

Bottomline, Israel could not be doing any of this if it were not for the generous help from us here in the US.

Okay. I just saw this from the last poster.

"Real security for worldwide Jewry comes from assimilation in the societies within which they currently exist -- not in forcibly creating a state amidst people you make into your enemies by your actions. This should all be common sense, but the fact that it must be stated shows just how skewed world opinion is on the topic. "

Funny enough, one of Hitler's propaganda against the Jews was they were assimilating in order to 'take over from the inside.' Assimilating to the mainstream society is not a defense against paranoid Anti-Semites.

Nor is the reverse, i.e. keeping distinct from the mainstream society. With this such activity the anti-semite will scream: "Look at these Jews! Rather than assimilating, they maintain their separate identity! They must be up for something."

In other words, neitehr assimilating or not-assimilating is a defense against anti-semitism. History shows that neither defends the Jews.

Furthermore, everyone who claims the Jews 'stole' Israel tends to be ignorant on the 1948 war of Independence... but rewriting history is a often step for those who yearn to see Jews defenseless and stateless once again.

In 1948 the U.N. divided Palestine into three parts... one for the Jews, one for the Palestinian Arabs, and the largest part for the displaced Hashemites from Arabia. (Now known as Jordan)

The 1948 land given to the Jews was tiny, almost indefensible. But they accepted it. And were attacked by six Arab nations determined to do a second Holocaust by wiping the Jews out. Only problem is, they lost the war.

The refugees then, which numbered from 400,000 to 800,000, could have been resettled in Arab nations. But their relatives refused. Now they and their descendants number in the millions.

Israel offered to resettle them in exchange for peace. Peace was refused.

Now people still want Israel to accept a hostile population that wants their destruction. No nation in history has ever granted widescale citizenship to a hostile people, so why should Israel be the first?

If the Palestinian Arabs said yes to the 1948 partition rather than going to war, they'd have had their own state for 55 years now.

If they said yes at Camp David in 2000, they'd have had their own state for 2 years now.

And if the Jews had Yassir Arafat in 1948, instead of Ben-Gurion, the Jews would never have had a state.

A two state solution remains the best one, whenever Palestinians decide they would rather live for today than suffer to retain the hope of still wiping Israel off the map. I doubt Arafat will ever accept a state, but perhaps someone later on would.

I also refuse to entertain anyone who suggests that Israel become a secular 'Palestine' state, until they tell me why they aren't pressuring the Islamic states to do likewise. It seems odd to me that they feel one Jewish state is too many, while 40 Islamic states are apparently ok.

"Real security for worldwide Jewry comes from assimilation in the societies within which they currently exist "

Can you say it with a straight face? After the holocaust?

"people who are driven to desperate extremes because of the brutal, long-term Israeli Occupation"

You mean the one that has been being systematically dismantled since 1993. You mean the occupation by the Palestinian Authority that has been in place since then. Palestinian quality of life was improving steadily between 1993 until they walked out of talks in 2000 after being offered the most generous deal any Israeli government any has ever offered before as the next stage of increasing self-determination for Palestinians. Sadly, Palestinians showed in 2000 the same desire for war over peace that they showed in 1948 when they last were offered their own state. The present dire state of the Palestinians traces to their initiation of a brutal war against Israel two years ago when they rejected negotiations that had been helping their people for the 7 years before that.

"no one has more authority to say it with conviction than the eloquent Israeli Refusenik"

If by Refusenik you mean a Jew who was denied an exit visa by the USSR then you may have a point, but in all likelihood you are applying the term "Refusenik" to a conscientious objector. This is an insult to all those Refuseniks who lost their jobs, and lived under terrible oppression in the Soviet Union simply for wanting to leave.

"four million Palestinian refugees must be allowed to return to their ancestral homelands inside Palestine/Israel"

Ancestral? The UN resolution allows for return of anyone living in the area for two years or more. Most had been recent arrivals to the area over the previous 50 years, just like the Jews. Additionally, how did 400,000 Palestinians turn into 4 million in 50 years? That is an astounding birth rate. At that rate, they will be the dominant population on this planet in the space of 150 years! In 2150, will all 4 billion of them still be clamoring to be squeezed into Israel? Or will they have decided that they have long since inflated their numbers enough to eliminate the Jewish state through democratic means if they are allowed the "right of return."

"transition from the current Israeli government to form a new secular, democratic government that equally represents all the citizens of the new unified country of Palestine/Israel"

What transition? The current Israeli government is secular, democratic, and equally represents all the citizens. There are Jewish and Arab members of Kenneset. There are religious parties and religious influence in the state just like there is in most European countries, but far less than in the Muslim ruled countries, and arguably less than the U.S.A. where the Christian Right holds enormous sway.

"Discrimination of any kind would be illegal. Equal rights for all regardless of religion, ethnicity or sex would be enforced by law"

Discrimination is currently illegal, just as it is most western countries. There is still discrimination that exists in overt and covert forms, just as there is in most western countries. That is a problem their activists need to work on just as activists in other countries need to undo defacto discrimination in their societies. Calling their government "apartheid" and denying that it is a democracy implies that you feel the same way about the U.S.A.

I notice that you don't mention equal rights based on sexual orientation. In present day Israel, this is already law, as well as domestic partnership benefits for homosexual governmental employees. In this it is unique in the Middle East. As an Arab state, you can be assured that this would no longer be the case. Israel is presently a refuge for homosexual Arabs from all over the region. I am sorry you want to see that end.

"Palestine, which is its name to many people, and has been for thousands of years"

Totally false. Palestine was a name imposed on the region only a few hundred years ago as a derogatory term. It is derived from "Philistine," already considered an epithet and the name of one of the long since extinct tribes that existed in the region years ago. The above statement shows how deep your ignorance lies.

" 'Real security for worldwide Jewry comes from assimilation in the societies within which they currently exist '

Can you say it with a straight face? After the holocaust?"

Certainly. You don't hear about discrimination against the 10 lost tribes after they were assimilated into Babylon, do you?

Yes, the annihilation of the Jewish people through assimilation will guarantee the end of anti-Semitism. Oh wait a minute, even in countries without any significant Jewish population such as the Slovak Republic, anti-Semitism, in word if not in deed, is highly prominent.

Forget it then.

Perhaps, Wendy you should have dated a Jewish man 10 years ago. But seriously, please read the following to gain a better perspective:

An introspective look at the Middle East Conflict

It's finally sinking in that the people who are now calling themselves Palestinians have no inherent claim to the land they are claiming as their own, They [Palestinians] are a group of several million people of diverse ethnic, religious and racial backgrounds who aspire to national independence...

Let's now hear it from the Palestinians themselves:
In a March 31, 1977, interview with the Dutch newspaper Trouw, PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein said:

"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism.

So, now that we know who the Palestinians are, what do they want?

On the day he signed the first Oslo accord at the White House in 1993, Arafat told an interviewer that the agreement ''will be a basis for an independent Palestinian state in accordance with the Palestine National Council resolution issued in 1974.'' He was referring to the PLO's ''phased plan,'' which was adopted in Cairo on June 9, 1974. It calls for establishing a Palestinian state on any Israeli land that can be acquired through negotiation, then using that territory as a forward base for ''liberating'' the rest of Israel by force.

Maps of ''Palestine'' on the walls of Arafat's offices - occasionally seen in news photos or television footage - are actually maps of Israel. Agencies of the Palestinian Authority use the shape of Israel to denote Palestine in their emblems, stationery, and Web sites. Click on http://www.mopa.gov.ps - the cyber-home of Arafat's Ministry of Parliamentary Affairs - and a large map of Israel appears.

So now we know who they are and what they want. I challenge anybody to prove the above quotes are not legitimate. - And please, for a few of you, keep the racist (Jews-Nazi -Zionist) comments to yourselves.
Truep peace in the Middle East will only come about when the whole Arab - Israeli conflict ends. Arab states must give up on the various attempts at destroying israel.

Wendy, the truth is that Israel has been very distorted by Arab lobbyists and pro-Palestinian supporters. I urge you to visit Israel and find out for yourself what is going on. If you are 18 to 40 years old and plan ahead before you leave, there are hundreds of Kibbutz (communes) where you can live and work and party for free, like I did, for two to six months. If you make prior arrangements before you leave you can stay at a commune and have fun and meet people from all over the world. – And no, you do not have to be Jewish.

Some reading material: Kibbutz Volunteer (Kibbutz Volunteer, 7th Edition) and The Resource for kibbutz Volunteer Work both at Amazon.com or other bookstores.

Good Luck.

There are hundreds of thousands of 'people' - no matter what their ethnicity or identification - living in sub-human conditions in 'refugee' areas and under 'occupation.'

They are all human beings and have lived in those areas for a long time.

For god's sake just give them their own land and forget the idiotic settlements. Just leave them alone and stop attacking them for wanting to call the place they sleep every night their own .

Actually, I would like to see all the Arab countries also become completely secular and democratic.

Israel keeps trying to convince the world that it is a democracy, just like America, but obviously it is not. One need only look at the Israeli flag which has one religious symbol on it: the Jewish Star of David. Obviously, it is a theocracy. Obviously it is apartheid, as it keeps 3 million Palestinians in Occupation limbo, with no self-determination, restricted rights and so on. Obviously it is racist, as it does not give the same privileges to even its citizens inside Israel who are not Jewish. Non-Jews are completely marginalized, and denied the right to live on 92% of the land. So in fact, Israel is a "racist, anti-democratic, apartheid regime" as per someone who would know, an Israeli Refusenik soldier, who refuses to serve in an "unjust war", which is his opinion of the Occupation. I, for one, do NOT want even one penny of my tax dollars going to support Israel until it becomes a secular democracy like America, and all four million Palestinian refugees are allowed to return to their ancestral homes inside Israel/Palestine.

By the way, please check out Sept. issue of Vanity Fair for Christopher Hitchen's article entitled "Jewish Power, Jewish Peril". You'll see how closely he agrees with what I am saying. He's Jewish, by the way.

Wendy you are to be congratulated for the research and work you have done in your search for truth In the Mideast. If all American were as knowledgeable as you, about the murderous Israeli occupation, the annual give away of billions of dollars to feed the Sharon war machine would come to a halt.

I disagree with you however regarding the one state solution, and it has nothing to do with Israeli Jew propaganda or the historical ignorance demonstrated by some posters, trying to discredit your opinions. me and other characters who must be posting from some make believe land, respond to the idea that “"Real security for worldwide Jewry comes from assimilation in the societies within which they currently exist. "--by saying “Can you say it with a straight face? After the holocaust?”

What complete bull. In the country that I live, America, Jews are assimulated and they do OK.
some land from the Arabs and give it to Jews. Perhaps they did not want any more Jews in America or Great Britain. As in the crusades the Arabs were victimized by the Western world. As a pragmatic person, I support the two state solution, Whether anybody like it or not Israel is a fact and nothing will change that. Wendy you have to know that all American politicians are intimidated by AIPAC and the anti-Arab, racist mainstream press to suggest any solution that Sharon does not like. The best way to help the Palestinian is to accept these facts--it’s politics of the possible

A recent, Israeli bombing killed 16 Palestinians, including 11 young children (more children then has ever been killed in any suicide bombing), and wounded over 150 human beings. Sadly, this terrorism appears acceptable to many right-wing racist such as Rabbi Yacoov Perin who, at a 1994 memorial service for Baruch Goldstein, the murderer of 29 Palestinans at prayer, said that “One milion Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail.” In America and in Israel, too many racists do not look at Palestinian and Israeli lives as being comparable.

Albert Einstein said "Understanding of our fellow human beings...becomes fruitful only when it is sustained by sympathetic feelings in joy and sorrow." Wendy, we need to make American see amd understand their own racism. This racism is fed by a pro-war, money before morals media, that most American get all their news from, This task is not easy. For those of us who believe in free speech, the effort is worth it--in spite of the uggly name-calling that childish human beings resort to.

Free Palestine

YOU are deliberately lying or completely clueless. Maybe both.

I could not bear to read all your mind-boggling piffle, but by the way, a Refusenik is an Israeli soldier who refuses to serve in The Occupied Territories because they believe it is an unjust war against the Palestinians.

By the way, check out http://www.cactus48.com and please read "The Origin of the Palestine/Israel Conflict."
But I don't think you can handle the truth.

I believe in the one-state solution because it is the best, most democratic, win-win solution. It worked for South Africa, and it worked even here in the USA. I really don't care what Sharon thinks. He will be irrelevant soon. The sooner the better. I don't care what AIPAC thinks. I don't care what Netanyahu thinks. And I don't care what racist Zionists think. They are outnumbered and their game is up. We are on to them now, and we will not let them get away with their ethnic cleansing and slow genocide of the Palestinians. We are taking the truth about Israel to the heartland of America, you and I and everyone who hates racism, and we will pressure our politicians to stop letting a racist, heartless, paranoid, meglomaniac minority run our country. We will no longer unwittingly support Israel's unjust war against the Palestinians! It goes against our moral fiber, the ideals that this country is based on, and it is against our best interests. It's simply BAD KARMA and what goes around comes around. We must not allow Israel to lead us into WWIII!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Note: The "clueless ones" are Gets It All Too Well and Date Jewish. They are also deliberately distorting the truth and the facts. Anyone who can handle the truth, is encouraged to read "Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict" written by the Jews for Justice in the Middle East at http://www.cactus48.com. Please forward the link to everyone you know! It's your duty!

As a peace and justice activist, I of course completely despise the Jewish so-called "people", except for the very few good ones like Noam Chomsky and Norman Finkelstein. Frankly, I am not certain that the so-called "Holocaust" (or is it "holohoax"?) even occured; if it did, it was probably justified! These vermin are always trying to control other people's societies as well as the financial system; it is well past time that they learn that we're not going to take their abuses anymore and that if they don't stop, they will be DESTROYED and deservedly so! In any case, the heroic "suicide bombers" have shown us the way in their struggle to rid the world of these hideous people and end their horrific abuses of power. Save humanity; KILL THE JEWS!

By the way, let me point out that there are many Jews who also oppose Zionism and Israel.
Here are a couple websites for you to check out if you are interested: http://www.jewsnotzionists.org and http://www.netureikarta.org. Ultra-Orthodox Jews have always been anti-Israel, even before Israel came into existence in 1948. They hold demonstrations where they burn the Israeli flag and spit on it. I have many Jewish friends who called themselves anti-Israel. And apparently the writer Christopher Hitchens is too, judging by his article in the latest (Sept.) issue of Vanity Fair ("Jewish Power, Jewish Peril'). Zionism is racism. Zionism is paranoid-based. Zionism is exclusionary. Zionism is a flawed concept, and a failed concept.

Someone who claimed to be me just wrote that I despised Chomsky, and Jews were vermin, and Kill All Jews.... just another Zionist hacker, who thinks he or she is so clever. Sorry, gotcha!

Beat you to the punch! As I did indeed write, I am anti-Zionism, but not anti-Jew per se. I must say, those Zionist hackers are really sneaky and twisted. But, like I said, we're on to your games.

"Not Anti-Jew per se", oh Wendy dearest? Does that mean you simply despise MOST Jews-but make a few exceptions for those demented fringe figures like Noam Chomsky who deny the Nazi Holocaust and share your contempt for the overwhelming majority of the Jewish people? I notice you didn't refute the "hacker's" claim in your name that the Jews deserved the Nazi Holocaust-or the denial that it even occured. I take then that you agree with that view. The fact of the matter is that you ARE a Jew-hating racist who supports Adolph Hitler.

whaty doyou mean by implyimng the palestinians are supported by oil money? And why deny them this when the US govt is propping up israel to the tune of billions of dollars/year.
clearly you are not a two state person but a one stater: an israel with no palestinians at all.

israel is palestine misappropriated to the back ground music of Exodus....It is all stolen land. You seem to think it is ok for the jews to displace the palestinians: creating a problem to solve one.

your 'argument' is warmed over zionism. No palestinians was already old when golda meir used. If there were no palestinians who did the zionists terrorise in the years 1947, 1948?
On the other hand, israelis are new. They didnt exist before the founding of israel. They were ingathered from eastern europe, US, iraq etc, and many are not even semitic (the latest bunch come from peru!)

Judging from their hysterical responses, you must have struck a nerve with them.
Zionists can't stand even a little bit of honesty getting out on Israel.

They were especially threatened by your suggestion that the one state solution is the best solution for this conflict. I agree. I also agree that all the Middle Eastern countries should become secular and democratic.

I've had them post using my name as well (http://www.indybay.org/news/2002/08/139474_comment.php#139574). So have others. Sometimes you cannot tell if a post is genuine or just Israeli propaganda intended to make them look like victims.

The usual charge of "anti-Jewish" and "anti-Semitism" were thrown about with abandon. For all their faults, did white South African's ever have the audacity to claim that those who worked for justice held anti-white hatred? I think Zionists are so used to justifying Israel's existence because of the Holocaust that they try to keep on clinging to their victim status. I guess it's just a reflex reaction.

As you pointed out, the internet is a great way to disseminate sources of information that can help illuminate what's going on in this world rather than purposely keeping us in the dark (which seems to be the main job of the mainstream media).

Real democracy is impossible without this. For people to make decisions that affect what the government does, they have got to know what is really going on in the world.

Below I've listed some of the sites I use to get information on the Middle East.
Hope these are helpful to you and others:
Mark Bruzonsky:
http://www.middleeast.org/mernew.htm
http://www.palestinechronicle.com/
http://www.yellowtimes.org/
Alfred Lilienthal
http://www.alfredlilienthal.com/
Alexander Cockburn and many others:
http://www.counterpunch.org/
http://www.ccmep.org/
http://www.ahram.org.eg/weekly/
Noam Chomsky:
http://www.radio4all.net/search.php?search=search&searchtext=chomsky&searchtype=regular&list=&nxval=&prval=
John Pilger
http://pilger.carlton.com/print
http://www.wrmea.com/
http://reese.king-online.com/Reese_20020503/index.php
http://www.zmag.org/ZNET.htm
http://www.fair.org/

anti-Semitic person -- anyone that Zionists hate.

deceit and disguise are tactics the zionists have used often and to good effect. Eg the alvon affair, and the Libya incident. But it is good they do, as it proves theirthey know they have no case and are must resort to desperate measures like the IDF does, It strengthens the palestinian cause.

Yes, of course I know there was a Holocaust. I also know that right now the Palocaust is happening. How come Zionist Jews don't care about that? How come they only say "never again" when it comes to Jews?
Norman Finkelstein wrote an excellent book called "The Holocaust Industry". Check out his website http://www.normanfinkelstein.com if you get a chance. He quite accurately points out how Zionists cynically use the Holocaust to try to silence any criticism of anything Zionists do, like ethnic cleansing in Israel.

It's pathetic, really. So hypocritcal. So disappointing. So infuriating!

would you care to substantiate that claim about noam Chomsky denying the 'holocaust'? If you cant prove it, then that is libel, and chomsky could rightly sue.
It is just such extreme comments that serves the palestinian cause by showing the sort of support isral generates.

Has everyone heard of the incident in 1967 re-surfacing after all these years of being repressed about the USS Liberty, a clearly marked US naval ship that was repeatedly bombed by Israeli jets and submarines, killing 34 US Navy men, and wounding 172 more? Thanks to our "special relationship" with Israel, it was never investigated by Congress. Just recently however, Congresswoman McKinney urged an investigation, and guess what? Tonight she lost the election, and everyone knows it's because of AIPAC, the American Israeli Public Affairs Committe. Just do a google-search and get the details. Also, check out http://www.ussliberty.com to find out more about Israel's treacherous act. If you want to pressure Israel to become a real democracy, join onto http://www.BoycotttIsraeliGoods.org. In the SF Chronicle, there was a front page article on "Israel Feels the Sting of the Boycott". It's working. Boycott everything Israeli and American companies that donate heavily to Israel, and there are many, such as Intel, Sara Lee, Johnson & Johnson, The Gap, Estee Lauder, Victoria's Secret, Starbucks, and many more. Only a people's movement is going to save the Palestinians. We can do it!

"...that was repeatedly bombed by Israeli jets and submarines"

Ha ha, submarines?? You're a riot wendy.

So Wendy says this:

"Someone who claimed to be me just wrote that I despised Chomsky, and Jews were vermin, and Kill All Jews.... just another Zionist hacker, who thinks he or she is so clever. Sorry, gotcha!
Beat you to the punch! As I did indeed write, I am anti-Zionism, but not anti-Jew per se. I must say, those Zionist hackers are really sneaky and twisted. But, like I said, we're on to your games"

Rather than expressing any disagreement with the anti-semitic posting, she spins it around and claims without any evidence that it is some evil Zionist trying to make her sound anti-semitic.

Wendy, anti-semitism is real, and I think there is just as much evidence the person pretending to be you really believes in what he is saying.

But that doesn't seem to occur to you. You're so quick to condemn Zionism. After, all, isn't that what those sneaky Jews/Zionists do? Deceive, lie, and control everything?

The Jew as the puppet master is a classic piece of anti-Semitism. Yes, that is one of the Nazi claism; that the Jews were magically controlling the world, except for them.

You too seem to believe this; you only replace the word 'Jew' with 'Zionist.'

Of course, you're quick to point out some Jews who share your views. No doubt, if you where a white slaveholder in the South, you would tell people that you know some "good niggers." Yes, some orthodox believe that only the messiah will be able to bring the Jews back to Israel, and to do it through secular means is a violation of this order. But that's their religious belief. You do not acknowledge that. I'm sure you don't care about it.

And how easily you brush off the "Yes, it would be nice if all the Arab states could become secular and democratic." But you won't lift a finger to that end. No, even when women suffer rights violations under Islamic rule. No, even with Saddam Hussein murdered thousands of Kurds with poison gas. No, even with Syria occupies Lebanon. No, even when the Sudan holds African slaves. None of these causes appeal to you. Because they aren't done by Jews.

And when it comes to Jews, no Palestinian exaggeration is too much. Someone has posted websites of Palestinian sources. I think its only fair that I provide some links to provide the other point of view.

israelinsider.com
jpost.com
http://www.jsource.com (very good site, answers many myths about the conflict)

Of course, I'm sure you won't spend the time to look at these links. You've obviously have enough emotion invested into the Palestinian ideology that even to question it, or to treat people with opposing viewpoints with any measure of humanity is too much for you. But I'm used to it. I've had many Palestinian activists refuse to shake my hand, or give me the time of day. But who can blame them. They might catch Jew cooties.

you may need to see an optometrist. How do you make out chomsky to be a holocaust denier? I think you are a truth denier. Can you provide any evidence to back up your acusation? i would like to see it

Disruptors are attempting to polarize groups into extremist viewpoints in a twisted attempt to destroy free speech and end intelligent discussion by deliberately creating flame wars. It is unlikely they have any actual agenda, more likely, they simply have no life. If you see such attempts at polarizing arguments to the extreme, merely point out that it is happening. Do not attempt to accuse them of being Zionists or whatever - this is exactly what they are hoping for. If they are not abusing your handle, merely ignore them.

To those who say why I don't get on Arab countries cases about becoming democracies, that will come later. My first priority is Israel because Israel could barely exist if it didn't take so much money from the US. I'd love to see how Israel would survive without one cent of our US tax dollars. Besides that fact that it is a resource-poor country, it is committing heinous crimes against the indigenous people, the Palestinians, and tries to steal even more land from its neighboring countries. This is simply bad karma, and what goes around comes around. Cause and effect. You do something bad, and something bad is going to happen to you.

By the way, please check out http://www.jewsnotzionists.org.

There really is a BIG difference.

FREE PALESTINE: No more US-Israeli Crimes of Occupation!
Saturday, Sept. 28, 11 am gather at Dolores Park, noon march, 1 pm Civic Center Rally
*Support Palestinian People's Right to Return: Israel's campaign of displacement has made Palestinians the largest refugee population in the world. Uphold UN resolution 194 calling for the right to return!
*Stop US Aid to Israel: Between 5 to 12 billion $$$$$ in annyal US ais funds massacres, home demolitions, the closure of cities and scholls and ongoing displacement. Redirect those dollars for education, health and other needed services. (and rebuilding Palestine for the Palestinians!)
*Divest from Israel NOW: exercise your power to make a difference. Boycott Israeli goods. Boycott US companies that do biz with Israel.
*No New War Against Iraq! The US war and 12 years of sanctions have killed over 1,000,000 Iraqi people, many of them children. Two cheif weapons inspectors have resigned over the fraudulent policy of sanctions. Lift the sanctions now.

The Jewish settlement movement from 1880-1939 was carried out by legal means. They bought land, applied for immigration visas, and some sought (and gained) citizenship of the British Mandate Palestine.

What most don't realize is that the first acts of violence occured in 1920, 1921, and 1929 when Arabs attacked Jews. Even more astonishing is that the first people forcibly evicted from their homes were also the Jews during the terrible Arab revolt starting in 1936..*

After sixteen years of trouble and the eviction of hundreds if not thousands of their people, I think the mainstream Jewish community gave up on cooperation with the "native" Palestinians. Point is there are to many well-meaning folk that are desperately ignorant of the events in the Middle East prior to 1948.

*Documented proof of these sad time are stored on http://www.un.org in the form of annual reports, addendums, etc from the British Administration to the League of Nations. Also of interest is T.E. Lawrence's role in the creation of Trans-Jordan and his assessment that Palestinian self-rule was inappropriate and that the territory should belong to Syria.

To someone who said Chomsky denies the Holocaust: That is untrue. However he did once say that some idiot (I forget who exactly) had the right to deny the Holocaust since we have free speech here in America. But NOOOO Chomsky himself never denied the Holocaust.

I believe the correct website for the excellent writer Norman Finkelstien is http://www.normanfinkelstien.com but it could be stein, instead of stien... He explains how the Holocaust is used for a free ticket.

Furthermore, YES, Israeli submarines and jet pilots DID bomb the USS Liberty killing 34 Americans and wounding 172 more. What, are you too lazy to check out http://www.ussliberty.com???

And to those who say I don't answer all the Zionists' accusations, sorry, I simply can't be bothered to try and argue with their web of lies. I would prefer to let them stew. For those of you who are confused, again, please take the time to do your own research beginning with http://www.cactus48.com and read "Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict" by the Jews for Justice in the Middle East. That's a great place to start.

My mantra to you is please read "Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict" by the Jews for Justice in the Middle East at http://www.cactus48.com.
Your claim that the land was gotten legally is erroneous, and misleading. And by the way, the Zionists always had in mind (and in writing and in actions) a Jews-Only country, which obviously necessitates ethnic cleansing of the indigenous people. It's all explained in the article above. You believe T.E. Lawrence, an arrogant, British fop's opinion that Palestinians shouldn't have their own country? You are really grasping a straws now! By the way, I am reading an excellent book called "Desert Queen" about a fascinating Victorian-age woman named Gertrude Bell, who was influential in creating the borders of modern day Iraq. She loved Arab people and culture (and by the way she had Jewish friends too). She was VERY upset about the anti-Semitic Balfour's plan to give away some of the Palestinians' land to Zionist Eastern European Jews. Whe said, and I quote "To my mind it's a wholly artificial scheme divorced from all relation to facts and I wish it the ill success it deserves---and will get, I fancy." Furthermore, the Balfour Declaration vowed not to prejudice "the civil and religious rights" of the Palestinians. Obviously, the human rights of the Palestinians have been trampled on, and this is continuing today with the help of our US dollars against most of our wills!

Good site. Just a note of correction though: not all Zionists support the occupation. I'd suggest another term, maybe Israel if you want to identify the Israeli government, or perhaps pro-occupationists. pro-IDF would be a good one too, or IDF apologists. Zionist is just a bit too generalized. Example, you will find great news coverage of both sides, pretty no-holds barred condemnation of the atrocities at http://www.btselem.org, which is a Zionist site.
Great link you posted though :)

A search on the USS Liberty website under "submarines" reveals the presence of US subs, not Israeli. Israel used jets and torpedo boats. Nothing else is mentioned.

Note:

At 0800 hrs, 8 June, 1967, eight Israeli recon
flights flew over Liberty, which was flying a
large American flag. At 1400, waves of Israeli
Mystere and Mirage-III fighter-bombers attacked
with rockets, napalm, and cannon, concentrating on
the ship's antennae and electronic dishes. Liberty
was left afire, listing. Eight of her crew lay
dead, 100 wounded, including Commander William
McGonagle.

At 1424, Israeli torpedo boats attacked, raking
the burning Liberty with 20 and 40 mm shells. At
1431 a torpedo hit the Liberty amidships, where
the signals intelligence systems were located.
Twenty-five more Americans died.

At 1515, the crew were ordered to abandon ship.
Israeli warships poured machine-gun fire into the
life rafts, sinking two. As American sailors were
being massacred, a rescue mission by U.S. Sixth
Fleet carrier aircraft was aborted on orders from
the White House.

An hour after the attack, Israeli warships and
planes returned. Commander McGonagle gave the
order to repel boarders, but the Israelis,
probably fearing intervention by the Sixth Fleet,
departed.

crappy source you got - that why you scared to post it?

"This web site is dedicated to the memory of thirty-four fine young men
who gave their lives on June 8, 1967, defending the USS Liberty
against a sustained air and sea attack by the armed forces of the State of Israel

During the Six Day War between Israel and the Arab States, the American intelligence ship
USS Liberty was attacked for 75 minutes in international waters by Israeli aircraft and
motor torpedo boats. Thirty-four men died and 172 were wounded.

The attack has been a matter of controversy ever since. Survivors and many key government officials
including Secretary of State Dean Rusk and former JCS Chairman Admiral Thomas Moorer say it was
no accident. Israel and its supporters insist it was a "tragic case of misidentification" and charge that the
survivors are either lying or too emotionally involved to see the truth.

Israel claims they mistook our ship for the out-of-service Egyptian horse carrier El Quseir
and that we brought the attack upon ourselves by operating in a war zone without displaying a flag. Not so.
We were in international waters, far from any fighting, and flew a bright, clean, new American flag.
The flag we flew is on display at the National Cryptologic Museum,
Fort Meade, Maryland and can be seen there, or in the USS Liberty Images Archive.

Our commanding officer, Captain William Loren McGonagle, received the Congressional Medal of Honor
for conspicuous gallantry and intrepedity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty during the attack.
The Congressional Medal of Honor is the highest award our country can bestow.
To avoid embarrassing our attackers, Captain McGonagle's Medal of Honor was presented in a quiet ceremony
in the Washington Navy Yard instead of in the White House by the President as is customary.

The USS Liberty Web Page presents part of the story
along with some historical information and links to other sources."

http://www.ussliberty.org


not only that but your disbelief of Israeli submarines is pretty outrageous too. They've even got boomers and just tested them with cruise missiles:

"London Sunday Times
June 18, 2000

Israel Makes Nuclear Waves With Submarine Missile Test

By Uzi Mahnaimi and Matthew Campbell

Just as President Bill Clinton is engaged in a bitter public debate about how best to defend America from missile attacks launched by "rogue" countries such as Iran, Israel's intensely secretive military preparations against the same threat have gone a stage further.

Israeli defence sources claim the country has secretly carried out its first test launches from submarines of cruise missiles capable of carrying nuclear warheads. The launches last month from German-built vessels in the Indian Ocean were designed to simulate swift retaliation against a pre-emptive nuclear attack from Iran.

While Israel's generals may be jubilant at the breakthrough - the missile is said to have hit a target more than 900 miles away - the development raises the worrying prospect of an escalation in the Middle East's nuclear arms race just as peace talks have been thrown into uncertainty after the death of President Hafez al-Assad of Syria.

According to Israeli sources, the three Dolphin-class submarines will give Israel a crucial third pillar of nuclear defence to complement the country's already much-vaunted land and air ramparts. While the Israelis' intention of using the German submarines as roving nuclear launch platforms had long been suspected, few experts had expected them to develop the capability to fire submarine-based cruise missiles so soon.

Planning for a submarine-launched nuclear deterrent was accelerated after reports in the early 1990s by Mossad, the Israeli intelligence service, that Iran would be capable of staging a nuclear missile attack against Israel by 2000.

The latest Israeli estimate has put that threat back by two years. But uncertainty over Iran's level of nuclear capability has not slowed Israel's drive to bolster its defences.

The Dolphin-class vessels are among the most technically advanced of their kind in the world. They are twice as big as the 23-year-old Gal-class submarines that the Israeli navy has relied on to date.

Israel ordered the submarines from Germany when it could not find an American shipyard to produce the diesel and electric-powered vessels it needed, according to Israeli sources.

In a sign of the sensitivity of the project, elite crews have been assembled to man them: the 35 officers and men aboard each vessel have been nicknamed "force 700" because of the average 700 points they scored in psychological tests devised by the Israelis. The scores are equivalent to an IQ of 130-140. Another five specially selected officers solely responsible for the warheads will be added to each vessel once the missiles are operational.

America's supply of military technology to Israel is a sensitive political issue. Last week there were calls in Washington for a cut in aid to Israel unless it cancelled the sale to China of a spy plane built with American-supplied technology. The Pentagon fears it could be used against American pilots.

Since achieving nuclear capability in 1966, Israel has kept a hawkish eye on its neighbours' fumbling steps towards acquiring weapons of mass destruction.

Its fears were dramatically illustrated in 1981 when Menachem Begin, then prime minister, sent eight F-16 jet fighters to destroy a nuclear reactor in Iraq in an episode condemned around the world as reckless military adventurism.

In 1986, Mordechai Vanunu, a former technician at the Dimona nuclear reactor who revealed secrets of Israel's programme to The Sunday Times, was kidnapped by Mossad and jailed. He remains incarcerated.

A decade later, Israeli fears appear to have proved well-founded. Washington routinely cites Iraqi and Iranian nuclear ambitions as justification for America's multi-billion-dollar missile defence system, whose deployment may be ordered by President Bill Clinton this year.

America will not look kindly on Israel's development of a remarkable new military capability at such a delicate stage in the peace process.

"This is certain to irritate the Clinton administration," said a defence analyst in Washington. "It makes it that much harder to get non-proliferation to stick in the Middle East."

Despite a good personal relationship between Clinton and Ehud Barak, the Israeli prime minister, relations between the two countries have soured in recent weeks. On top of reports of the extraordinary extent of Israeli espionage in Washington, Israel's proposed sale of the spy plane to China has outraged American congressmen.

Under a contract with the Chinese, Israel Aircraft Industries has installed a Phalcon airborne early-warning system in a Russian-made Ilyushin. China has an option for three more such planes. American officials say they fear they will pose a threat to Taiwan - as much of an American ally as Israel - and upset the military balance. Relations have been strained further by other Israeli missile tests conducted without advance warning to the Pentagon. Last month the American navy criticised Israel for test-launching a Jericho ballistic missile off its coast in April when an American warship in the vicinity momentarily thought it was under attack.

Pentagon officials said the missile landed about 40 miles from the warship. "That's pretty close for a missile that's not the most accurate," said one official, adding that this was the third time in two years that Israel had conducted "nonotice" missile tests near an American warship."

i.e. you is wrong again, troll. Doesn't surprise me ... a guy who spends his life looking for crappy info is probly wrong alot.

"London Sunday Times
June 18, 2000

Israel Makes Nuclear Waves With Submarine Missile Test

By Uzi Mahnaimi and Matthew Campbell

Just as President Bill Clinton is engaged in a bitter public debate about how best to defend America from missile attacks launched by "rogue" countries such as Iran, Israel's intensely secretive military preparations against the same threat have gone a stage further.

Israeli defence sources claim the country has secretly carried out its first test launches from submarines of cruise missiles capable of carrying nuclear warheads. The launches last month from German-built vessels in the Indian Ocean were designed to simulate swift retaliation against a pre-emptive nuclear attack from Iran.

While Israel's generals may be jubilant at the breakthrough - the missile is said to have hit a target more than 900 miles away - the development raises the worrying prospect of an escalation in the Middle East's nuclear arms race just as peace talks have been thrown into uncertainty after the death of President Hafez al-Assad of Syria.

According to Israeli sources, the three Dolphin-class submarines will give Israel a crucial third pillar of nuclear defence to complement the country's already much-vaunted land and air ramparts. While the Israelis' intention of using the German submarines as roving nuclear launch platforms had long been suspected, few experts had expected them to develop the capability to fire submarine-based cruise missiles so soon.

Planning for a submarine-launched nuclear deterrent was accelerated after reports in the early 1990s by Mossad, the Israeli intelligence service, that Iran would be capable of staging a nuclear missile attack against Israel by 2000.

The latest Israeli estimate has put that threat back by two years. But uncertainty over Iran's level of nuclear capability has not slowed Israel's drive to bolster its defences.

The Dolphin-class vessels are among the most technically advanced of their kind in the world. They are twice as big as the 23-year-old Gal-class submarines that the Israeli navy has relied on to date.

Israel ordered the submarines from Germany when it could not find an American shipyard to produce the diesel and electric-powered vessels it needed, according to Israeli sources.

In a sign of the sensitivity of the project, elite crews have been assembled to man them: the 35 officers and men aboard each vessel have been nicknamed "force 700" because of the average 700 points they scored in psychological tests devised by the Israelis. The scores are equivalent to an IQ of 130-140. Another five specially selected officers solely responsible for the warheads will be added to each vessel once the missiles are operational.

America's supply of military technology to Israel is a sensitive political issue. Last week there were calls in Washington for a cut in aid to Israel unless it cancelled the sale to China of a spy plane built with American-supplied technology. The Pentagon fears it could be used against American pilots.

Since achieving nuclear capability in 1966, Israel has kept a hawkish eye on its neighbours' fumbling steps towards acquiring weapons of mass destruction.

Its fears were dramatically illustrated in 1981 when Menachem Begin, then prime minister, sent eight F-16 jet fighters to destroy a nuclear reactor in Iraq in an episode condemned around the world as reckless military adventurism.

In 1986, Mordechai Vanunu, a former technician at the Dimona nuclear reactor who revealed secrets of Israel's programme to The Sunday Times, was kidnapped by Mossad and jailed. He remains incarcerated.

A decade later, Israeli fears appear to have proved well-founded. Washington routinely cites Iraqi and Iranian nuclear ambitions as justification for America's multi-billion-dollar missile defence system, whose deployment may be ordered by President Bill Clinton this year.

America will not look kindly on Israel's development of a remarkable new military capability at such a delicate stage in the peace process.

"This is certain to irritate the Clinton administration," said a defence analyst in Washington. "It makes it that much harder to get non-proliferation to stick in the Middle East."

Despite a good personal relationship between Clinton and Ehud Barak, the Israeli prime minister, relations between the two countries have soured in recent weeks. On top of reports of the extraordinary extent of Israeli espionage in Washington, Israel's proposed sale of the spy plane to China has outraged American congressmen.

Under a contract with the Chinese, Israel Aircraft Industries has installed a Phalcon airborne early-warning system in a Russian-made Ilyushin. China has an option for three more such planes. American officials say they fear they will pose a threat to Taiwan - as much of an American ally as Israel - and upset the military balance. Relations have been strained further by other Israeli missile tests conducted without advance warning to the Pentagon. Last month the American navy criticised Israel for test-launching a Jericho ballistic missile off its coast in April when an American warship in the vicinity momentarily thought it was under attack.

Pentagon officials said the missile landed about 40 miles from the warship. "That's pretty close for a missile that's not the most accurate," said one official, adding that this was the third time in two years that Israel had conducted "nonotice" missile tests near an American warship."

i.e. you is wrong again, troll. Doesn't surprise me ... a guy who spends his life looking for crappy info is probly wrong alot.

You're spouting the same tired "Zionist" rhetoric we've all heard before. But if you care to do some research into the origins of Zionism, you will find a truth neither sides wishes you to hear.

Zionism's original intention was the creation of a Jewish homeland (spiritual) in the land of their ancestors and not a Jews-only state. This led to the legal immigration of Jews to Palestine, the legal purchase of lands and the legally sanctioned of the self-governance of all communities (which at the time was referred to as Anarchism). The plain truth is that Jews who wished to become legal citizens of British Mandate Palestine had to go through a deliberately difficult process, but even so thousands of them did just that.

You also seem to be unfamiliar with the nuances of the movement. Like the many sects of Islam, Zionism has two major divisions, secular Zionism and religious Zionism, and each in turn has generated many sects of differing beliefs. And like Islam, some of these sects were/are self-important racist ideologies and others are tolerant and cooperative (see the above mention of B'tselem).

Again, if you read the ACTUAL documents (http://www.un.org) to which everyone quotes, misquotes and most often ignores, you will find that everything I have said is the factual truth http://www.un.org. In fact, consider it my challenge to you.

Don't be afraid to learn the complex , historical depths of this situation -- it doesn't change the need for Israel to end the occupation and pull back to the 1967 borders.

Here's your bad source, son.

http://ussliberty.org/margolis.txt

"not only that but your disbelief of Israeli submarines is pretty outrageous too."

I never said that, son. I said,
"A search on the USS Liberty website under "submarines" reveals the presence of US subs, not Israeli. Israel used jets and torpedo boats. Nothing else is mentioned."

Can you comprehend, son?

":-)
by me • Wednesday August 21, 2002 at 12:58 AM



"...that was repeatedly bombed by Israeli jets and submarines"

Ha ha, submarines?? You're a riot wendy."


comprehend that, liar???

Wendy must be doing something right. It seems that someone who does not have a brain attached to his/her spine needs to resort to sick racist postings in an effort to discredit her one state argument.

I have have been victimized by the same kind of sick posting, done in my name. Whether this is done by a Jew, Muslim or Christian it is outside any bounds of decent human behavior.

IMC should develop software that would permanently ban such sick persons from all postings.

Free Palestine.

there is a troll lurking in these here woods .. maybe two but that's all. They aren't FBI or Mossad or Zionists or anything really .. just losers with lots of time on their hands. There are not many of them - 2, tops. They just post all day and all night long. They like to abuse other people's nicks, make extremist statements either way to polarize debate, and generally disrupt conversation. Ignore them.

of frail, malnutritioned ass-holes. maybe you should spend a week or two in our neighborhood and then we should talk....if you want to trust the arabs today(no, not racism,but a plain and painful social observation) it is your problem. how lucky for us you have nothing more than marginal impact. keep-on talking....
an ex israeli officer( a very proud one, too)

stop pretending to be an ex-israeli officer there ok princess tom ?

sorry to disappoint you rice(?!)...at/ata yakhol lidhof lehatzmekha etzba...
how is that for my command in hebrew? did i convince?
Your theoretical discussions are nothing short of pathetic. i grew up in a house of left-wing supporters. unlike you, our approach is pragmatic and not theoretical. we will reach peace without your idiotic, ignorant misreading of the situation as it is. in two-three years there will be two states with a free right of return to tiz-el-nabi ( the ass of the prophet in free-range arabic)...
fare-well
Yohay

Interesting to see I've started a raging debate. It's unfortunate that the Zionists are so nasty, however, but that's because they rightfully feel so threatened. They are racists, thinking they are somehow better than other people, especially Palestinians. Fortunately, Zionists are outnumbered. I know I use the word Zionist broadly, however, that's just the way it goes. In my book, Zionist means a Jew (or some weird Christian fundamentalist) who thinks that Jews have a right to go and steal land from someone else, in this case, the Palestinians, and kill them, and lie about it. Oh, it was just self-defense. HA! Yeah, right!

Zionists are people who instead of believing in The Golden Rule, which most people know is "Do unto others as you would like to have them do unto you" have twisted it into meaning "Do unto others as they have done unto you during the Holocaust." Zionists are fixated on the Holocaust. Zionists think two wrongs make a right. Zionists say "Never again" and think it only applies to Jews. Zionists always twist facts to try terribly hard to justify Israel's ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians. Zionists practice and rehearse their "talking points" to try to convince others that its OK for Israel to steal the Palestinians land, treat them like vermin, deny them equal rights, massacre them, dispossess them, destroy everything they have... just because the Zionists want the Palestinians' homeland for their own. If Zionists don't know the truth, Zionists don't want to know the truth. Zionists know who they are. And they have a right to be worried about anti-Semitism. DUH.

Anyway, here are some good websites for those of you who care about justice for the Palestinians:
http://www.pmwatch.org
http://www.palestinemonitor.org
http://www.electronicintifada.net

And for goodness sake, get the word out about http://www.ussliberty.com!

And another thing....

I firmly believe that dual citizenship between the US and Israel should be banned. And that goes for any other country too, however, I think perhaps we could make an exception for Mexico and Canada since they share our borders.

But between Israel and the US? NO! It's unbelievable how at this time it is OK for an American Jew to go over to Israel / Palestine and join the Israel Defence Force (aka Israeli Destruction Force) and kill Palestinians, and still retain US citizenship. This USED to be cause for automatic revoking of US citizenship! But thanks to a so-called Israeli-American, with the help of powerful Jewish lobby groups like AIPAC, this got overturned. And I believe that this is getting out of hand.

Supporting Israel, a racist, apartheid country is NOT in America's best interests! In fact, I believe it is putting the US in the line of fire! Israel is a liability to America as it is now. Israel must be transformed into a real democracy and allow all 4 million Palestinian refugees back to their ancestral home inside Palestine/Israel, with equal rights for all, in a secular, democratic country. Then there will be justice and peace.

At any rate, I believe that American citizens should pledge allegiance to one flag only and that is the flag of the United States of America!

It's nice to finally see some moral outrage at what Israel has been and still is doing to the Palestinians (not to mention Lebanon and their other neighbors). They've been getting away with ethnic cleansing since 1948. And it's only been recently that liberals have bothered to notice. The left was content to ignore their atrocities in order to make up for the Holocaust. Make no mistake, the Holocaust was horrible, but that should not blind us to what Israel is doing to the Palestinians -- much of which resembles Nazi atrocities.

Zionists are flat-out racists no different than their white South African counterparts during Apartheid.

All aid to this racist nation should be cut off. This is the minimal moral obligation on our part. More than that, Israel needs to be isolated from the world community until it gives equal rights to Palestinians and becomes a true democracy. Not just a democracy for Jews.

Wendy, have you seriously ever thought of entertaining the thought of having a civil discussion with a Zionist?

I have seen far more slurs and insults hurled towards Zionists than towards Palestinians. No Zionists accused Palestinians of ritual child murder, or ridiculed the Koran. Still, you accuse the Zionists of nastiness.

Of course, your very definition defies belief.

I have made certain points, certain arguments, that go completely ignored. You say you'll say later why you don't do anything about despotic Arabic regimes, but I have a feeling you never will.

But do you think you have the cajones for a serious discussion? Would you know what a serious discussion would entail?

Well, it would mean having to take your opponent's sources seriously, rather than ridiculing them.

It would mean questioning your own sources.

It would mean listening, answering questions, and asking reasonable questions, rather than make grandious accusations and propagandic statements.

Are you up for it, or do you simply like to echo the lines of every Jew-hater, accuse genuine anti-semites of being Zionists trying to make Palestinians "look bad" and ignore every reasonable person, so you can continue to attack Zionists as being some kind of inhuman monsters?

Are you a thinker, or are you a fanatic?

I think I already know the answer, unfortunately. It's depressing.

Zionism- the radical notion that Jews are people.

And it sure is a radical notion on this board.

Anti-Zionism - the radical notion that Palestinians are people.

-- "No Zionists accused Palestinians of ritual child murder, or ridiculed the Koran. Still, you accuse the Zionists of nastiness. "

Zionists can be very nasty. Many of the above posts prove that. I've never seen a Palestinian accuse Zionists of ritual child murder or ridicule the Torah. But I guess not believing what the Torah says about Jews being given all the land between the Nile and the Euphrates is tantamount to ridicule.

I'm not going to sit here and let you accuse Palestinians of the anti-Semitic posts when it could have very well been Zionists trying to smear them. Some of the posts may have been from genuine anti-Semites, but it's my gut feeling that much of it is Zionist propaganda.

BTW, no Palestinians are occupying Israelis, or stealing Israeli land, water, and homes. It is the Israelis who are the oppressors not the Palestinians and this will be true no matter how much twisting and propagandizing Zionists commit.

Someone once said, "you can fool some of the people all of the time and you can fool all the people some of the time, but you can never fool all the people all the time."

Here is a genuine Palestinian voice:
http://www.yellowtimes.org/article.php?sid=610&mode=thread&order=0

Actuallly, if you check the latest posts, there is a thread from some fellow who openly declares he believes the blood libel- that Jews ate the flesh of babies. That's nasty.

There's a large thread that throws lies about the Talmud. That's nasty.

You haven't seen these? Figures.

And I am really sick of the paranoia that these anti-semites are Zionists who want to make the Palestinians look bad. There is NO evidence of that, save your paranoia. There is plenty of evidence that a great deal of anti-semitic propaganda comes from the arab world. See for yourself.

http://Memri.org

And frankly, if the Palestinians wanted a state in the west Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem, it was all offered to them in 2000, at the second Camp David accord. If you didn't trust Ehud Barak to sign it, no problem, President Clinton was also going to sign it, and he was going to have the United States back the deal.

Instead, we got another violent uprising that killed 2,500 people in two years. Lot of people. Almost as many as the number of Jews killed in one day during the Holocaust.

Israel has always been willing to give land for peace. Israel gave the Sinai Desert to Egypt for peace. Israel gave territories to Jordan for peace. Israel was willing to give Gaza, the West Bank and half of the holiest city in Jerusalem to the Palestinians for peace. If you want to understand what that's like for Jews, it's like imagining if Saudi Arabia offered half of Mecca to the Jews for peace. That's serious stuff.

But Israel will NEVER commit suicide for your happiness. And neither will I. We can coexist. But you will not destroy them. Jews have earned a tiny bit of the world for their own, after millenia of discrimination. And Israeli Arabs have more rights than most Arabs in Arabic countries.

Zionism has saved millions of Jews from death. How many have you saved? How many have the Arab nations saved?

Nada. Hell, half a million Jews were forced out of the Arab nations after '48 by anti-semitism. Forced. As in made into refugees. As in, what you accuse Israel of doing to the Palestinians.

How many words have you given in their defense, demanding reparations or repatriation?

Nada.

We will make peace with those who are willing to live and let live. But if you want to kill the Jews or destroy their historical homeland, then, I'm sorry, we'll defend ourselves.

And now I will close off with the watchword of the Jewish faith, the Shema. I'll even translate it into English, for those of you still questioning the attachment Jews have to the land of Israel.

"Shema yisrael adonai elochanu adonai echad. Baruch shame kivod malchuto liolam va'ed.

Hear O'Israel. The Lord is our God. The Lord is one. Blessed is the Lord's glorious kingdom forever and ever.

Yes. You are right. Much of the Arab world is anti-Semitic. But much of Israeli society is equally anti-Arab.

Israel was just recently offered a settlement by the Arab League without even mention of the right of return for refugees. Ariel Sharon immediately called this the destruction of Israel and invaded the West Bank massacring people in Jenin, Ramallah, Bethlehem and other Palestinian towns. Israel is an expansionist state and will not make peace unless forced to for the simple reason that they covet more land -- and there in lies the crux of the problem.

-- "Jews have earned a tiny bit of the world for their own, after millenia of discrimination. "

Actually, Zionists took this tiny bit of the world by force.

-- "And Israeli Arabs have more rights than most Arabs in Arabic countries. "
This is total bullshit that could only be spewed by anyone that has no knowledge of Arab countries.
Israeli Palestinians are oppressed and treated as inferiors. Recently, during the latest Israeli massacres, around 16 Israeli Palestinian demonstrators were shot and killed. No Jewish Israeli demonstrators have ever been killed by Israeli police. This is not to mention those that are arrested and tortured.

We here in America should always do what is right and to a lesser degree what is in our interest. And it is neither right nor in our interests to keep doling out to Israel the 4-12 Billion Dollars in annual "aid." This is used for immoral purposes and needs to stop.

If the Israelis want to be oppressors let's let them do it alone.

"Actuallly, if you check the latest posts, there is a thread from some fellow who openly declares he believes the blood libel- that Jews ate the flesh of babies. That's nasty.
There's a large thread that throws lies about the Talmud. That's nasty."

actually these are just extremist posts made by a single conservative troll to set up strawmen for people like you to attack, and disrupt intelligent conversation on these boards. They are attempts to polarize debate and move it away from a middle ground and into a flame war. When these posts are censored, the same troll starts screaming endlessly like a rabid chimpanzee about how his freedom of speech has been violated. Go figure.

"Yes. You are right. Much of the Arab world is anti-Semitic. But much of Israeli society is equally anti-Arab. "

I don't think so. You never hear Israelis talking about wiping all the Arabs into the sea. Even the most rightwing of the Likud do not talk about mass murder, but that comes all the time from the Arabs.


"Israel was just recently offered a settlement by the Arab League without even mention of the right of return for refugees. "

Funny. The way I read about it, Ariel Sharon asked to attend the meeting so he could discuss the matters personally, but for some reason, the Arab League refused to let him show up. Strange way to negotiate a peace. Besides, you still haven't told me why the Palestinians rejected Camp David.

"massacring people in Jenin, Ramallah, Bethlehem and other Palestinian towns."

The fact that these towns harbored terrorists who were blowing up Israeli civilians couldn't have anything to do with it, could it?

I also find it interesting how the Palestinians screamed massacre in Jenin, talking about thousands killed, but even now Human Rights groups confess that the accurate number of deaths was around 50, many of whom were gunman.

And it's also interesting how Israel could simply have bombed Jenin from the air, the way America does. Instead, she risked the life of her own soldiers by going in on the ground, and about 13 Israeli soldiers lost their lives to reduce PALESTINIAN CASUALTIES, yet of course, Israel gets no credit for that. Israel could have protected her own lives by just bombing them from the air. I wonder why she didn't.

Incidentally, did you ever wonder why Bethlehem, which used to be a Christian town, what with Jesus being born there and all, has almost no Christians left ever since its rulership was transferred to the Palestinian Authority? Could it be the PA has something called.... religious intolerance?



"Israel is an expansionist state and will not make peace unless forced to for the simple reason that they covet more land -- and there in lies the crux of the problem. "

If Israel coveted more land, why is it all the land they 'took' was in defensive wars?

If Israel covets more land, why did she give the Sinai Desert- with oil- to Egypt?
(Answer: Peace)

If Israel covets more land, why did she return territories to Jordan?
(Answer: Peace)


"Actually, Zionists took this tiny bit of the world by force. "

Actually, Zionists took this land by...paying money at inflated prices to absentee Arab landowners.
And after supporting Britain and surviving a Holocaust, the UN partitioned Palestine to three different groups... one to the Jews to become Israel, one to the Palestinian Arabs to become Palestine, and one to the Hashemite Kingdom to become Jordan. (Jordan got the most land actually, I wonder how they managed that?)

What did these Zionists do? Did they throw a fit? Did they demand more land? No. They ACCEPTED the offer.

And were promptly INVADED seven Arab nations wanting to start a second Holocaust by "pushing them into the sea." Israel defended herself and won.

And yes, a number of Arabs were refugees from the war. If there was no war, there'd have been no refugees.

And many Jews were expelled from the Arab homes by Anti-Semitism.

Israel accepted the Jews. Israel offered to accept the Arab refugees in exchange for (Guess what?) peace. And what did the Arab nations, so caring about the Palestinians say? They said no!

Did the caring Arab nations, with so much more land than Israel ever had, offer to resettle their relatives? No! They let them stay in camps, where they multiplied until you have the millions that are there today. Why not let them in? Easy. So they could be used as pawns against Israel. Nice relatives.

-- "And Israeli Arabs have more rights than most Arabs in Arabic countries. "
"This is total bullshit that could only be spewed by anyone that has no knowledge of Arab countries."

Well, how about this?

Saudi Arabia, to take one nation as an example, has a 100% Moslem population. (How's that for religious tolerance?)

Women are forbidden to drive or wear revealing clothing in public.

In Israel, there are Jews, Christians, Druze, and yes, Muslems.

And Arab Israeli citizens have the right to vote.

True, there's still improvement needed on race relations in Israel. And there's a need for improvement on race relations in the United States. Of course, minorities in the U.S. don't often blow themselves up in pizza parlors or universities and talk about how they want to wipe the country off the map. That kind of behavior also strains race relations, you know.



"No Jewish Israeli demonstrators have ever been killed by Israeli police."

Well, an awful lot of Jewish civilians have been killed by Palestinian police and civilians.

"We here in America should always do what is right and to a lesser degree what is in our interest. And it is neither right nor in our interests to keep doling out to Israel the 4-12 Billion Dollars in annual "aid." This is used for immoral purposes and needs to stop."

How about if we stop the foreign aid to the Palestinians? After all, Arafat's personal fortune is about $1.3 billion now, mostly by embezzling it from his own people. Not to mention the amount that goes into making bombs and other terrorist attacks, rather than something handy, like investing in infrastructure.

As for me, I'm glad for each of my tax dollars that goes to Israel.

Om Yesrael Chai!

why are you happy to send your tax money to a bunch of thugs that are making a joke of our war against the Nazis and who have attacked US military assets?

"why are you happy to send your tax money to a bunch of thugs that are making a joke of our war against the Nazis and who have attacked US military assets?"

Good point.

Let's stop U.S. aid to the Saudis.

Yes, let's. The Saudis are an American puppet government created to oppress Arabs.

"Not all Jews are Zionists and not all Zionists are Jews
"

Not all Zionists are Jews?? Is that so? ;-)

"All aid to this racist nation should be cut off."

Please provide proof that Israel is a racist country.

see?

International Law

"Under the 1949 Geneva Conventions, collective punishments are a war crime. (8)Article 33 of the Fourth Convention states: "No protected person may be punished for
an offense he or she has not personally committed," and "collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited."

In World War II, Nazis carried out a form of collective punishment to suppress resistance. Entire villages or towns or districts were held responsible for any resistance
activity that took place there. The conventions, to counter this, reiterated the principle of individual responsibility. The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC)
Commentary to the conventions states that parties to a conflict often would resort to "intimidatory measures to terrorize the population" in hopes of preventing hostile acts,
but such practices "strike at guilty and innocent alike. They are opposed to all principles based on humanity and justice."

The law of armed conflict applies similar protections to an internal conflict. Common Article 3 of the four Geneva Conventions of 1949 requires fair trials for all individuals
before punishments; and Additional Protocol II of 1977 explicitly forbids collective punishment."

We Need Your Help...

The people of Nablus ask you to join in solidarity against the brutal policy of home demolition.

Actions can include vigils at major Israeli, US and British embassies, street demonstrations and protests.

We also ask you to support the SUSTAIN (9) campaign against the Caterpillar Corporation.

"Caterpillar D-9 bulldozers have become such an active part of the IDF's activities that the term "D-9" is as common to school kids here as "Apache" or "Cobra"
helicopters, or the much more terrifying "F-16" fighter jets. The official IDF website documents their main purpose - home demolition…The dozers (or, in some cases,
pneumatic breakers) then demolish the homes, proceeding from the second floor to the first. The whole operation takes from 30 minutes to three days, depending on its
scope and intensity." from The Electronic Intifada (10)

* http://www.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=199216&group=webcast

(1) http://www.rebuildinghomes.org/why.htm
(2) http://www.mennonitechurch.ca/programs/peace/icahd/
(3) http://www.sustaincampaign.org/cat_letter2.doc
(4) http://www.palsolidarity.org
(5) http://www.palsolidarity.org/writings/mclaughlin_july.htm
(6) http://www.palsolidarity.org/writings/rinear_04aug.htm
(7) http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=199752&sw=demolition
(8) http://www.crimesofwar.org/thebook/book.html
(9) http://www.sustaincampaign.org/
(10) http://electronicintifada.net/diaries/archives/00000271.shtml

It's obvious.

At any rate, as far as any "generous offer" that Israel made to the Palestinians--- what alot of hogwash!

Yeah right.

I know it's been made intentionally hard for the average person, or even the above average person, to find complete information about these so-called generous offers, but I have and it's an outrage. Nothing even close to a viable country was offered to the Palestinians. Had the tables been turned Israel would never have accepted such an "offer". Why should the Palestinians?

Basically, what was offered to them was banthusans, or townships, like in South Africa, still no self-determination, no continuous borders (think Swiss cheese), no control over water, etc. PLEASE! Generous offer my foot! And all the while, while the so-called "Peace Process" was happening, Barak built more illegal settements on confiscated Palestinian land than any other Israeli Prime Minister--- how's that for showing "good faith"?

I say Israel must be dismantled immediately and transformed into a real democracy by outside forces, like the UN who created this mess in the first place! NOW! Israel will never change on its own. From day one it has been an immoral country. The US must completely reverse its position about Israel!

Oslo Agreement to the Palestinians
You are going to have 22% of the 100% which was originally yours. Barak's "Generous" offer to the
Palestinians: We are going to give you 80% of 22% of 100% of the land which was originally yours.
Sharon's "Peace" plan to the Palestinians: We are going to give you 42% of 80% of 22% of 100% of the land
which was originally yours, and this 42% will remain under continuous curfew. American Christian Zionists
to the Palestinians: We are asking Sharon to give you 0% of 42% of 80% of 22% of 100% of the land which
was originally yours. Bush's "Peace" plan to the Palestinians: I trust Sharon's judgment, since he is a 'man
of peace,' but where the hell is Palestine? Blair's "Peace" plan to the Palestinians: We started this whole
mess. But right now I go along with Bush's extraordinary "vision." =======================

I never thought pro-terror stalin wannabies like yourselves can be very intelligent, however, that is really too much.
You say "Not all Zionists are Jews" and you try to support this absurd claim by showing that there are some Jews that oppose Zionism. That's a no-no.

"If Israel coveted more land, why is it all the land they 'took' was in defensive wars?

If Israel covets more land, why did she give the Sinai Desert- with oil- to Egypt?
(Answer: Peace)

If Israel covets more land, why did she return territories to Jordan?
(Answer: Peace) "

Sadly, Israel didn't have a right to those lands in the first place, as you point out when you say 'return' territories.

No single country should be armed to the hilt by the US, regardless of what was given to whom.

No single government should be propped up by the US - Saudi Arabia, Israeli, whatever.

It's sad to see how biased you are when it comes to helping and aiding people - some people appear to be worthy for you, and others are not. At some point everyone is just a person and needs to be treated fairly. We have the chance - right now - to balance how we treat everyone. Some people need compensation for how they were mistreated, and that can be dealt with, but not by arming one side of a struggle and allowing one side to murder other people - don't kill others in the name of justice, it isn't any sort of justice to murder people.

Sorry, it's a fact. Perhaps you don't like the truth, I suspect, about alot of things with regards to Israel.

Well, maybe I'll include some pictures of my own, of Zionists around the world.

From Brazil...

From Japan...

From Russia....

From Christians...

From Hungary.

that only proves that some Jews are Zionists, dumbass. It doesn't prove that they all are. Are those guys in that pic all the Jews in the world? nope. Me 1, you 0. Your kung foo is weak.

"You say "Not all Zionists are Jews" and you try to support this absurd claim by showing that there are some Jews that oppose Zionism. That's a no-no."
a no-no? aren't you missing kindergarten classes or something?
that's just about the stupidest statement I've ever freakin heard. If some Jews oppose Zionism, then not all Zionists are Jews, dumbass. More proof of the absolute stupidity of the right. What are you guys trying to do here, showcase your idiocy so everyone can see your philosophy is a complete waste of time? Your comments are actually welcomed so that the public can come see what morons you are.

A common Zionist message is that they were given Palestine by the UN in 1948. And then the Arabs attacked them.

First, the UN at the time was pretty much controlled by the US and Britain. Second, it was not their land to give away.

If UN resolutions are so sacred, why is Israel the world record holder of currently being in violation of UN resolutions (around 70).
And it would have been far greater if the US hadn't vetoed all the others (somewhere in the hundreds).

-- "If Israel covets more land, why did she give the Sinai Desert- with oil- to Egypt? "

Israel grabbed the Sinai in 1967 in a war ISRAEL started -- despite all the lies about this. They attacked their neighbors in what they called a preemptive strike. So in 1973, Egypt along with Jordan and Syria attacked Israeli positions in the lands that were grabbed in 1967 -- never setting one foot in Israeli territory. This shook Israel up enough that they conceded to a treaty with Egypt -- but only so that it could eliminate their southern deterrent so that they could free up their military for an onslaught on Lebanon. This came only one year after Israel signed the peace treaty with Egypt (1978). They attacked Lebanon again in 1981, and then again in 1982 when they killed 20,000 people (based on an actual body count) and destroyed at least 40 apartment buildings completely. They remained in Lebanon for another 18 years (in violation of UN resolutions) killing 25,000 more (45,000 in all) until they were finally kicked out by the Lebanese resistance. What's funny is that Lebanese fighting Israelis in Lebanon were called the terrorists.

This pretty much shows that the only thing that Israel understands is force.

-- "If Israel covets more land, why did she return territories to Jordan? "

No land was ever returned to Jordan. Israel took the West Bank and are still there.

-- "It's sad to see how biased you are when it comes to helping and aiding people - some people appear to be worthy for you, and others are not. At some point everyone is just a person and needs to be treated fairly. We have the chance - right now - to balance how we treat everyone. Some people need compensation for how they were mistreated, and that can be dealt with, but not by arming one side of a struggle and allowing one side to murder other people - don't kill others in the name of justice, it isn't any sort of justice to murder people. "

I agree whole-heartedly. That's why I want to end all our aid to Israel.

"Israel grabbed the Sinai in 1967 in a war ISRAEL started -- despite all the lies about this. "

With a heightening of anti-Israel rhetoric, Egypt massing its forces in the Sinai Desert, Syria massing its own force on the Golan Heights, and increase in terrorist attacks, attacks on Israeli farmers by Syrians from Golan, and finally an act of war by shutting off the Straits of Tiran, I think your little sob story about Israel starting the six day war leaves a lot to be desired.

And yes, if you point a gun at my sister, I'm not going to wait until you pull the trigger before cracking you on the head.

It's kind of funny how Israel is the only country in the world where if its enemies win, its people will be slaughtered and its nation destroyed, but when Israel wins, its expected to give all the territories back to its enemies, so they can try again.

The best way make an analogy is if you attack me on the street with a gun. I disarm you, taking away your gun, and then you ask for me to give it back. I ask if you'll try to kill me again if I get it back. You say "yes." I think I'm quite justified in not returning the gun until I have a promise from you not to use it to shoot me.


"They attacked their neighbors in what they called a preemptive strike. So in 1973, Egypt along with Jordan and Syria attacked Israeli positions in the lands that were grabbed in 1967 -- never setting one foot in Israeli territory. "

Ah yes, those cunning Arab states attacked during Yom Kippur and got a sliver of the Sinai before being stopped. I would point out that the reason they never stepped foot in Israel proper is because Israel defended itself... not because they didn't want to.

Incidentally, this victory gave Anwar Sadat the credit he needed to make peace with Israel. Israel returned the Sinai- in spite of the fact that they found oil there. The Israeli settlements in Sinai were withdrawn- overlooked by an Israeli soldier named Ariel Sharon. And Anwar Sadat, as a reward for making peace, was assassinated by his own people. I guess you can't please everyone in these games of politics.

As for Lebanon, I think you should also point out the number of Lebanese murdered by the PLO, and perhaps also the fact that Lebanon is under occupation by Syria. You know, the occupation there oughta go... 'cept no one seems to care.

Interestingly enough, right after the six day war, Israel offered to return the West Bank to Jordan and Gaza to Egypt. In case you didn't know, that's where they came from. But Egypt and Jordan have sinced renounced all claims to those lands. I think they don't want to deal with the Palestinian population.

As for peace with Jordan, benefits were agreed to on both sides, in areas of Commerce, Economics, Agriculture and Tourism. If you want a detailed description about the aspects of the peace, look at http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Peace/jortoc.html

Now repeat after me: "peace goooooooood. War baaaaaaaaaaad."

Stop the Hate.
Negotiate!!

There is really nothing to negotiate. Israel needs to get out of the Occupied Territories as the UN and the entire world (outside the US) has demanded.

My main concern is cutting off all the money that is going from my wallet to your government which is being used to steal, torture and oppress -- not to mention, coming right back to us in the form of unending propaganda.

All US aid to Israel is illegal by US law. We are not supposed to be giving any money at all to any country that produces weapons of mass destruction (chemical, nuclear, biological). Yet, in this, like everything else, Israel is above the law.

http://web.media.mit.edu/~nitin/mideast/chomsky_qa.html
http://web.media.mit.edu/~nitin/mideast/chomsky.html

New Questioner, #5:
I just felt that there were a few facts that you didn’t mention and I wonder why. For instance, if I go back to the ’67 war, it’s a fact that Israel was attacked. It was a self defense war and it wasn’t mentioned. If we are talking about the Lebanon war, I mean, the life of the Israelis who lived in the Galilee were hell for years, attacks and children in shelters, children murdered at schools, you didn’t mention it. And recent things, like the killing in Gaza, which I am against violence and I don’t justify any kind of violence, but the Gaza event in Netzarim, you didn’t mention and it happened one month ago, the school bus of Israeli children who went to school that was bombed by Palestinians, and this creates the reaction. You didn’t also mention what happened after the parade. I think it is a mistake to bring so many policemen to where people go out from the Mosque, but what really started it, and I read it in the newspaper because I live here right now, it was when the Arabs finished praying, they just threw stones at the Jews who were praying downstairs on the Western Wall. I mean, you didn’t even mention it. You know, I don’t think that violence is justified but I think that also the Jews in Israel have the right not to be murdered and not to live in shelters and not to live - I remember myself in shelters for so many years. I mean, all of these events not mentioned by you, even a hint, and this is what bothers me.

Noam Chomsky:
Okay, well you are absolutely right, I didn’t mention the atrocities committed against Jews and I didn’t mention the vastly worse atrocities committed against Arabs. For example, in discussing this kind of Intifada, I said absolutely nothing about the atrocities. So, you’re right. I didn’t mention the few cases in which atrocities were committed against Jews, or the many cases in which atrocities were committed against Arabs. And the same in the past. I barely mentioned them, because I was talking about other things. However, we could, but then we will balance it. I mean, for example, it is simply not a fact that the Palestinians coming out of the Mosques started throwing stones down below, and if you read Ha'aretz, you’ll see that it’s not a fact. That happened after the border guards were shooting.

Same Questioner, #5:
Was the killing of the children who went to school, is that a true fact or not?

Noam Chomsky:
Yes, it was. That is a true fact as was -

Same Questioner, #5:
Why did you choose among these true facts, just to mention the fact that people were killed by the American helicopters– and you didn’t mention the children who were murdered on their way to school -

Noam Chomsky:
For a simple reason, because the overwhelming mass of the atrocities are by Israel and the United States. I am talking about the United States and our supply of military helicopters. If we were providing guns to the Palestinians to kill Israelis and the Palestinians were carrying out 90 percent of the atrocities, I’d talk about that. But I’m talking about our providing military helicopters to the Israelis to carry out 90 percent of the atrocities. That is why I mentioned it, but barely.
(Same Questioner, #5, but inaudible)
May I continue?
Let’s go back to 1967 and 1982. In 1967, Israel was not attacked and nobody even pretends that. I mean, back at the time, Abba Eban, it was his job at the UN to claim that Israel was attacked. He knew it was a lie, and what he was saying were total lies. And you can’t even get this in Israeli –

Same Questioner, #5:
And about the attack in ’73, ’72?

Noam Chomsky:
You want to go back to that? Let’s take a look at ’67. I’ll come then next to ’73. In 1967, Israel launched the war. Now you could say it was a legitimate pre-emptive strike if you like, but there is just no question that Israel attacked. Okay? That is not even a matter of debate. As for 1973, no, Israel was not attacked. What was attacked was Israeli occupied territory. Egypt attacked Egyptian territory that was held by Israel under the conditions that I described, after Israel refused a peace treaty. The fact of the matter is, there is not one case in which Israel was attacked.

In 1982 - you’ve got your dates mixed up.
There was a time when people were hiding in the Galilee but not in 1981. 1981 was an extremely peaceful year, there were no attacks from the North to the South, zero.

Same Questioner, #5:
I lived in the – in the 80’s children lived in shelters every weekend-

Noam Chomsky:
In the 80’s, that is after, right? May I continue?

Same Questioner, #5:
Also the - university - and all the media, the CNN, are in the territories, and you get all the information through the media, and you say there was no university, no media, no attacks on Israelis. I mean, we were in the shelters and you stand here and said that there were no shelters.

Noam Chomsky:
No, I didn’t say that. I said in 1981, up until the Israeli invasion of Lebanon, there were no attacks from the North. There were plenty of attacks from the South. Israel was regularly bombing Lebanon, trying to elicit some kind of PLO response, which would be a justification for the planned invasion. And they were bombing fishing boats, they were attacking villages, they were killing all sorts of people and there was nothing in response. Israel attacked in 1982 (and they were pretty frank about it) because they were afraid of PLO moderation. They were afraid that the PLO was abandoning terrorism and was moving toward a political settlement, and that is what Israel does not want. They made it pretty clear. Like, if you were there at the time, and you were reading the papers, you would have read it. For example, a couple of weeks after the,- right after the invasion - you heard of Yehoshua Porath – who is, as I’m sure you know, the leading Israeli academic expert on the Palestinians, a pretty conservative guy incidentally, wrote an article in Ha'aretz, in which he pointed out that we had to invade Lebanon because what was happening was what he called a veritable catastrophe. The PLO was refusing to carry out terrorist acts. They were becoming a kind of a moderate force. For Israel this is impossible, we want them to go back to terrorism, and Israel tried to elicit terrorism. Now take a look at what happened after that. I mean, if you want, I’ll direct you to Israeli sources, but right after that period, Israel was regularly provoking attacks inside Lebanon, and when they would bomb somewhere in Lebanon, there would be a response in which Kiryat Shemona would get a Katyusha attack. That was happening consistently, and in fact, it mostly happened after 1982.

Same Questioner, #5:
Why would they attack now when Israeli already withdrew? It’s not true. In the 1980’s, we were in the shelters.

Noam Chomsky:
May I continue?

Same Questioner, #5:
You read only the articles that serve your point.

Noam Chomsky:
No, I don’t. So we agree, I presume, that everything you have said so far is false. Now, lets look to the present. Let’s take a look at the present case. Finally Israel withdrew after 22 years of illegal occupation in which it killed about 45,000 people, kind of trivial, right?

Same Questioner, #5 Nobody of course from the Israeli –

Noam Chomsky:
A few dozen were killed in Israel. Count it up. And almost every case was retaliation for an Israeli attack in Lebanon. There was a standard cycle, what happened over and over. It’s very well documented. The Israeli forces in southern Lebanon, the occupying forces in southern Lebanon or their mercenary army, the SLA, would be attacked by the resistance, Hizbollah, and then Israel would retaliate by bombing Beirut or some refugee camp and so on, and then Hizbollah would send rockets to northern Israel. That was the regular cycle, almost invariant. And, in fact, that cycle began in an interesting way. It began in 1992. From 1981 right through 1992, there was almost nothing except Israeli attacks in Lebanon of which there were numerous ones, like Shimon Peres’ 1985 iron fist operations right in the middle of Lebanon were murderous and it was well reported in the Israeli press. There was almost no retaliation. In 1992, something changed, and it was described very accurately, for example, by Moshe Arens, nice, right-wing Minister of Defense, you know, you don’t have to worry about his politics. He explained that in 1992, the rules of the game changed. How did they change? Well, Israel had carried out an assassination of a Shi'ite cleric, and they killed him and his wife and child and then bombed an ambulance that was trying to come and pick them up. And you say, well okay, that changed the rules of the game. From now on, after this period in fact, what happened is what I just described, the cycle that after Hizbollah attacks on Israeli forces or their mercenary army, Israel would respond farther north, killing people, and then after 1992, Hizbollah would also attack northern Israel. Now if you go back to the early 70’s, what you are describing is at least partially true. But after that, it’s simply not true.

Same Questioner, #5:
The Lebanon War -

(inaudible voices of others)

Noam Chomsky:
It’s a very important question. If you like, I would be glad to give you the highest level Israel sources which discuss and describe the Lebanon War. What you are hearing is probably propaganda that you learned in Elementary School. Nobody believes this in the Israeli academic system. And the Lebanon war was a straight attack. Nothing had been happening except attacks from Israel to Lebanon for over a year.

http://web.media.mit.edu/~nitin/mideast/chomsky_qa.html
http://web.media.mit.edu/~nitin/mideast/chomsky.html

For anyone interested in a serious analysis of the Middle East conflict, please see Noam Chomsky's "Fateful Triangle" and "Pirates and Emperors."

Both cut through the web of lies that inculcates us all.

If we were living in a truly decent world, Noam Chomsky would have won the Nobel Peace Prize by now.

Instead, we have winners like Shimon Peres and Menachem Begin both of whom are outright terrorists. (Begin led the Irgun into Deir Yassin killing 250 unarmed villagers in 1948 and Peres ordered the attack on a Palestinian refugee camp in Qana, Lebanon which killed 96 civilians -- this was in response to an attack by the Lebanese resistance against Israeli soldiers who were laying mines within Lebanon).

Don't forget that Yasir Arafat won it, too. If that ain't an injustice, I don't know what is.

In the eighties the US government switched from a policy of protecting Saudi Arabia from external enemies to protecting the Saudi Royal family from their own people.

We don't aid them, but we are committed to protecting them because they transfer the wealth of their country to the US and Britain. I say abandon the Saudi Royal family, let freedom come to that country.

Similarly, stop all aid to Israel. Allow freedom to enter there as well.

---------------------------------------------

If the Arabs had done to Israel, what Israel did to the Lebanese, I guess the media here would just have had a complete nervous breakdown. Iraq never did to Kuwait what Israel did to Lebanon but even now, the US supports Israel's occupation of the remaining part of South Lebanon and is about to attack Iraq for the second time because of... well I don't know why...there is no real reason.

Since our sanctions against Iraq (and they are ours, it would be unfair to blame them on the UN at this point), around two million people have died from lack of medicine. Half a million were children. Madeleine Albright said on national TV (60 Minutes) that "the price is worth it" (this is a person that says that 3 out of 4 of her grandparents died in the Holocaust, yet she cannot understand the implications of her own statement).

The first victims were people with chronic illnesses like diabetes. People are also dying there from the depleted Uranium fallout from our bombs. Also, anesthesia is not given to pregnant women giving child birth because they have to ration it.

Chomsky is interesting when it comes to Linguistics, but after he praised a Holocaust denier's book, I don't listen to what he says about Middle East.

Here's my question.

In spite of the pretty well known fact that Israel was pushed into the '67 war by a military buildup by her neighbors, let's PRESUME.... that these Anti-Israel folks are correct, and that Israel started the six day war in order to win more territory from her neighbors.

If this is the case... then why:

A) Why did Israel decide to start a war on three fronts? If you know anything about military history, this is a big no-no. I mean, one reason Athens lost the Peloponessian war in 500 bc is because she attacked Sicily while alread engaged in war with Sparta, turning a single-front war into a two-front war. Similarly, Otto von Bismarck's nightmare was for Germany to fight a two-front war; against France on the west and Russia on the east. He spent his entire career trying to prevent such a disaster from happening, only to be foiled in the next generation by Napoleon III.

If Israel wanted to go to war to win territory, wouldn't she have just attacked one country and concentrated on a single front? Why would she decide to go after Egypt, Syria, and Jordan simultaneously? It makes no sense.

(Unless of course all those countries attacked Israel at once. That would make sense.

And my second question:

B) If Israel was after as much territory as she could get, why did she stop with the Golan Heights, Sinai Desert, Gaza and the West Bank? She was winning the six day war, after all. Why did she go for an armistice, intead of continuing and conquering Egypt, Jordan, and Syria altogether? I mean, if she's land-hungry and wants all the Middle East, that might have been the perfect time and opportunity. Why stop? Doesn't make much sense either.

Then again, if she was attacked and just defending herself, the armistice at the end of six days makes sense too.

there is no group in the world that does not advocate violence against non-members, smash. How dumb are you anyway? You yourself use some stupid epithet like "smash the left violently" which puts you on par with extremists the world over, be they muslim, communist, nazi, nationalist, whatever. You're all demented idiots.

I don't apologize for conservative fundamentalist nationalists in any country any time. Arabs who do those things are their countries' equivalent of you guys. You should all be lined up and shot by the people, all around the world.

American soldiers abroad routinely do all of these things, as well as right wing fascist skinheads here in America, so yes, I equate hardliners all over the world as being the same useless hateful shitbags. Not every single individual hardliner does these things (usually a matter of opportunity rather than desire, though) but they all cheer and defend them. So yeah - you're the same fucking thing. The meek shall inherit the earth, and when we do there's gonna be a reckoning with all you murderers and fundamentalists, no matter what colour your skin is or what twisted version of what religion you preach to justify your crimes.

they're all the same to me, smash.

I like the way that your phony cartoon shows only whites and jews as the gun-toting hate-mongers, but conveniently leaves out any turban-wearing muslim pigs, who are in almost every instance the instigators of the violence.

No, there's nothing "meek" about you. You might hink you're going to inherit the earth, but you'll be doing it with guns and bombs, the same way your hypocritical philosophical forebearers like Pol Pot and Mao did. No, there's nothing meek at all about racist scum baby-murderes like you.

have fun in hell, hypocrite.

won't you have to lump yourself in with the "hypocrites who promote violence" when you are always raving on about "kill all arabs"? I won't be needing any bombs or guns, smash. I'll admit those are useful - you dimwits are always slinging them at each other, which is why, sooner or later, there will be none of you dinosaurs left.

your kung foo is weak, boring old smash. I still don't see anything interesting in what you write or even worthy of my response. Its just a load of self-proclaimed unsubstantiated assertions and robotically repeated skinhead propaganda. It has about as much basis in reality as 50s sci-fi. And it's just as old and muted and silly and, well, frankly, bores the hell out of me.

taunting fat shit eating subsentient pigs like you brings me no end of joy. I love it. The more you post, the more fun for me.

-- "Chomsky is interesting when it comes to Linguistics, but after he praised a Holocaust denier's book, I don't listen to what he says about Middle East. "

This lie has been repeated endlessly. Faurisson (a French revisionist and wacko) was being sentenced to a prison term for a book he wrote about the Holocaust. Chomsky (along with about 500 other prominents) defended his right to speak even though he disagreed with what he had to say. This is called freedom of speech. It's hard to believe that people in this country do not understand that principle. If you only support speech with which you agree, you are against freedom of speech. Wasn't it Voltaire that said, "I disagree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death you're right to say it." Chomsky was asked to write a generic letter in defense of freedom of speech, which he did. The letter is what all this is about.

The main issue here is whether a state has the right to imprison you for what you say. I don't believe it does. Chomsky (along with many other people who believe in free speech) don't think so either.

Anyway, to discredit his Middle East analysis, Chomsky was singled out and this lie has been repeated over and over in attempt to drum it into people's minds.

-- "Chomsky is interesting when it comes to Linguistics, but after he praised a Holocaust denier's book, I don't listen to what he says about Middle East. "

This lie has been repeated endlessly. Faurisson (a French revisionist and wacko) was being sentenced to a prison term for a book he wrote about the Holocaust. Chomsky (along with about 500 other prominents) defended his right to speak even though he disagreed with what he had to say. This is called freedom of speech. It's hard to believe that people in this country do not understand that concept. If you only support speech with which you agree, you are against freedom of speech. Wasn't it Voltaire that said, "I disagree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death you're right to say it." Chomsky was asked to write a generic letter in defense of freedom of speech, which he did. The letter is what all this is about.

The main issue here is whether a state has the right to imprison you for what you say. I don't believe it does. Chomsky (along with many other people who believe in free speech) don't think so either.

Anyway, to discredit his Middle East analysis, Chomsky was singled out and this lie has been repeated over and over in attempt to drum it into people's minds.

-- "Chomsky is interesting when it comes to Linguistics, but after he praised a Holocaust denier's book, I don't listen to what he says about [the] Middle East. "

This lie has been repeated over and over. Faurisson (a French revisionist and wacko) was being sentenced to a prison term for a book he wrote about the Holocaust. Chomsky (along with about 500 other prominents) defended his right to speak even though he disagreed with what he had to say.

This is called freedom of speech. It's hard to believe that this concept must be explained in this day and age. If you only support speech with which you agree, you are against freedom of speech. Wasn't it Voltaire who said, "I disagree with what you say, but I'll defend till death you're right to say it."

Chomsky was asked to write a generic letter in defense of freedom of speech, which he did. That letter is what this is about.

The issue here is whether the state has the right to determine official truth and imprison anyone who does not go along with it. I don't believe it does. Chomsky (along with many other people who believe in free speech) don't think so either.

Anyway, to discredit his Middle East analysis, Chomsky was singled out and this lie has been repeated over and over in an attempt to drum it into people's minds.

Did you read this roman; so you'll understand the oppressed peoples! Here, a short version:
*

A roman of Stefan Dimiter TCHOLAKOV; " ...instead of H."... *
Roman, CTeØaH yOnaKOB, "INSTEAD of H."

*

**
**

This roman, "...instead of H.", includes the real-life effects/observations of
the academician sportsman "tennis master" Heimatlos CTeØaH yOnaK0B, who wished
to use his asylum-rights acts' paragraphs according to the constitutional
rules, international conventions and the ratifications of Swekia, also to live
quite like an equal human there, but... ... ...
*
This story never aims been
nominated any Nobel-prize-circus because this work quite the revers of Jewish
lies, vice versa whole story based only on the international lies like;
"Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right
includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and
impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers."
Article 19 of The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, adopted by the United
Nations General Assembly on December 10, 1948

** -A roman of Stefan Dimiter TCHOLAKOV-
There are two different Swedish version, too; "...instead of
H.-Swede" and "...conven-Zional? -Confiden-Zional...".

**

Roman, CTeØaH yOnaKOB, "INSTEAD of H."

*
- Did you hear what happened in Florida?
- ...listening!..
- A man sentenced to probation for using a tiny video camera in his sneakers to
peek up women's skirts also used the "sneakercam" to ogle women at his probation
office, prosecutors told a Florida court. The allegations came to light during a
hearing on Tuesday after defendant Daniel Searfoss was arrested a second time on
voyeurism charges, the Tampa Tribune reported on Wednesday. Searfoss, a
43-year-old mechanic, was first arrested Dec. 31, 2000, on a misdemeanor
voyeurism charge at a Wal-Mart store in Plant City, Florida, near Tampa. Police
said he wired a camera hidden in his sneaker to a video recorder he carried in a
bag, using it to peek up women's skirts. He was sentenced to 12 months'
probation, which was terminated early, in September. Sheriff's deputies
arrested him again on voyeurism and stalking charges in November at a flea
market where he was again accused of using his sneakercam to look up women's
skirts. Investigators seized 45 videotapes from him, some four hours long, and
were still reviewing them. At the hearing on Tuesday, prosecutors said Searfoss
had also used his shoe camera to ogle women at a church, apparently while
serving 25 hours of court-ordered community service related to the first charge.
"It's worse than that," Assistant State Attorney Dean Tsourakis told the judge.
"He was doing it at the probation office -- for instance, the cashier at the
probation office." "That just really strikes me as really being wrong," replied
Hillsborough County Circuit Judge Walter Heinrich, who refused Searfoss' request
to lower his $75,000 bail.
- Gush blessed us, all the kind of snakes in the E.U....
- What you mean?
- Just now we get new instruments from Abramowicz...
- What kind of inst...
- New preparations of supervision duty... we have heavy work whole weeek to
change the supervision equipments too around of our tennismaster monkey ...
- I should guess.. court... tenniscourt... who been put on half-open probation
in Waexsjö, elsewhere...
- No dear; not only Tcholakov!..

**

- Did you record his last statements on tape?
- Ye', certainly... Our lovely rooster Tcholakov is chirping; "Here comes the
truth about United Kingdom's, United States, United European Capitalits, Under
Kingdom of Sweden Weapon Markets' and NATO's bomb-violence-politics on Balkan!
The Truth that Your Western Propaganda-television newer showed You! The results
of NATO's and USA's bombe-campaign 1999 (When the War against "Balkan Communism"
was over): Do you know; 2 000 killed by NATO-bombs Yugoslavian civilians - women
and, the most of them, children... Do you know; 41 000 uranium- and
plutonium-bombs, dumped over WHOLE Yugoslavia = 300 000 ton British and
NATO-radioactive waste, dumped during 6 montsh, making sick today over 10 miljon
Balkan-citizens inskin-deceases and cancer for 5,4 milion years (NATO do not
want to sannate, like american companies did in Quweit!!!) Do you know;
Polluted by uranium- and plutonium-radioactivity, ground water for drinking and
air for the Balkan-countries in neighbourhood for all future! Do you know;
Radioactive vegetables and wine-export from Balkan to EU and the rest of the
world! Do you know;"Danger zones" and "acid rains", "heavy metals in
Donau-river" and in the food, skin-deseacses (please see the link below). Do
you know; "Great Albania:s" Extremism, armed with NATO-weapons by nights and,
destroing ortodox churches, killing of non-Albanian civilians today.
Revolutionary all accepted Western Propaganda, links; please look at these
authentic pictures!!!. (he shows any pictures, published by computer
transferring issue...)...
You may publicate the pictures from "sramota" (="shame" in English) and as well
the "tomovi"-link. There is no copyright from the first two links of them. Time
to open our eyes and see the consequences of our actions!!! No medals or higher
positions, but HAAG-international court for the real massmurderers: Madlenka
Albright, Tony Blair, Javier Solana, Gen. George Robertson, Gen. Wesley Clark,
Bill Clinton etc. The warmongers to this dirty anti-civilians-war!!! It is time
for NATO to draw out their forces from Kosovo and Macedonia and stop modernize
Albanian Terroristic Armies NLA and UCK with new and modern weapons from British
helicopters by night (as they did on 21 juli 2001 over Tetovo region).
Anglo-american presence in the region Kosovo-Makedonia has for his one and only
aim to create a new European country on Balkan: "Great Albania" - instead of
today´s territorial parts of Greece, Macedonia, Yugoslavia - by blood,
massmurders, terrorism and violince. Today both USA and NATO are greatest "real
terrorists" on Balkan and their forces ought to leave Balkan peninsula
immediately, please become acquainted also with: "The White book on the
terrorist attacks of the so-called NLA" for the result of this political support
to NLA and UCK in the region... It is time for the "blue" ex-foreign minister
Nadezjda Michajlova, Ivan Kostof and ex-president Petar Stojanof and for
Yugoslavian new Government to make a full confession and speak with louder voice
for the first time also to the Bulgarian people the truth about their poluted by
uranium, plutonium and acid rains, environment in Western Bulgaria, for the
dozens of times higher cancer risks and a for a near future of born mallformed
Bulgarian and Yugoslavian new-borns, as a result of 79 days and nights uranium-
and plutonium nuclear-waste-bombings all over Yugoslavia and acid rains (please
see the maps and see that nuclear waste was used by USA and NATO outside Kosovo
for bombing civilians homes middle of the city also here... On the our own mark,
not in the New York or Tel Aviv... Therefore, we struggle, we decide to struggle
more effectively... Fight against Anglo-American barbarian violence,
Neo-Colonialism, Neo-Zionism and world-empire collaborators!!!
- Who is that boy?! Ye', really; it is Tcholly!.. What about now?!...
- Mamma mia!... Incredible!.. But I thought, he never had any connection with
the resistance groups in Balkan...
- You'll research!
- Research?! I am saying I am sure about that...
- Gentle! This declaration is been wrote by Neli McFree...
- Who is that girl?Another Bulgarian immigrant?
- Not at all!.. She is a mouthpiece of the Anti-Imperialist Resistance groups in
Belgrad...
- Vow! What a great anti-semite connect!
- Connection? That is the question what you'll suply the particulars in this
summer......
- Oh. no; my holiday!... Who can predicate such crazy relation...
- ADL's rep!
- What!!!
- Cars!... Don't look so stupidy; not the motorized wehicles; Hadar Cars, I
mean...

**


- They are suspicious on all the connections...
- They are suspicious perhaps only on our duties... Otherways I met an
interesting gay, Bijan Fahimi explain any connection between David ICKE ,
Staffan EHNEBOHM, Ahmed RAMI, David DUKE, Rainer HOLM, Henrik WESTANDER, Bengt
FREJD and much more...
- What is the connection but with our tennisplayer monkey?
- That is the question... They don't know anything and therefore we are on the
duty, means their unknowledge is our gain...
- Game?!
- You need go to the earn-doctor, my friend; Nordic climate is not fit to your
upside...

**

- Carl Cameron reported that Sweden delivered the mails without confrontation...
- Correspondence of Fox news international?..
- That is right!.. But I wonder how he get all the faxes from the department
after September 11...
- After or before?
- After the date...
- It's lucky... No problem... He discovered not at all as new news... Somalians
for instance playing the roles as clients by our elderly fox Sillbersky now...I
mean, all the important cards in your hands, open and see how you wish; they
always coming willing...
- Not so easy, dear!.. There are many examples... Bulgarian monkey refuseed to
come to ordinary meets.. He say he couldn't pay 6 000:- SEK to be real citizen
since 1989, how he should fix this simple citizienship-process.. and how can
pay to any lawyer?!..
- Remember the other guy, who like boxing, but ruined now in Gaevle-city?.. He
had same problem but he paid to the lawyer office Bengt Söderström... Right?!...
Ahmed Rami falled in mouse-trap in France and a he paid well there by the help
of a good judge in the court... Eveyting all right!?..
- I am laughing on process the called Idiots Mysterium......
- Idrott Ministerium...
- OK!... It was like a real circus in Sweden, because Rainer was non-immigrant
nor Laponian, what our group created an incredible conflict by the ministrial
desk ...
- Maybe!...But forget it!.. We are responsible on this region now... Anyway I
have good references at Social section, assistance directory reported that our
boys can everything when issues are ripe... Bulgarian guy will pay much better,
when time is in...
- When AIPAC financeed the telefon etc chips I affraid of the Swedish
personnel... I thought anyone will react and it can be an international scandal
like commercial-echelon conflict in Brussels... But it is intresting, only one
guy Jan Guillou was suspicious on this strange atmospheric pressure... Then I
called to Cordelia Edvardson, she siad, be quiet; Dagens Nyheter-daily newspaper
banned such irritations, otherways the Swedish people prepared well and like a
flock no more intrest on such accuses, when it signed by Guillou or Myrdal...
Maybe any personnel could refuse our boys in any department, what I always
affraid... At least I wonder that only a fax, listen to me dear; here, a
half-piece of paper, fax... Imagine the poor marionettes, for instance the
prime fatty imbecill Person received this order, could't sleep.. It's a ordinary
chain and easier before... It was enough, Swedish authorities shared e-mails and
snail mails copies too...
- If you will have funny, try it self; send a fax to Anna Lindh from Tel Aviv or
from New Jersey and want that she must just give the copies of all letters of
Thomas Bodström or...
- You are foolish!.. May be you are thinking I am more. foolish...
-?!...
- We have already all the roofs about Bodström, his close friends too... Don't
forget, AIPAC's Nordic chairman Per Ahlmark was vice prime minister over this
flock before all these corrupted official-marionettes...
- Has Bodström practicians like Monica Lewinsky?
- No!... I am sure only for Bodström, absolutely no!...
- He are reading only the constitutional developments on the Analia-Antalia
beaches or flying to Thai...
- But there is golf and tenniscourts i Tenerrife too!... Bodström is a famous
sportsman...
- Ok!.. Ok!.. May I add a detail... This guy is football player.. I know... But
Tenerrife has no one professionaly team nor anybody plays golf with his foot
there...

**

- When I discover a new dirty issue, so I understand Sweden much better why
Sweden oppressed the people...
- Did you find a new WC?
- It was your order, sir! You said that your are suspicious any connection...
- Such...
- Yugoslavian resistance...
- Don't say he joined...
- He joined counter aside!...
- No, I don't believe you...
- I'll show you whole documents which Krönika redacteur completed... Sweden sent
our Holy Che Dimiter as willing trainer soldier...
- Lego!..
- ...as European lego toi the Balkan and first time on the 24 April 1999 declred
that a list included the Swedes, too.
Sweden is the big wepaon handler whore in thus market by the side of Britannia
and American dealers... High Ranking officers from Military Cooperation Work
Group (MCWG) in Brussels was one of the visiting groups to Swedish PfP Training
Centre on April 24.
Arriving directly from Brussels in a Swedish Air Force C-130 Hercules the 55
officers
, all in different patterned camouflage uniforms, filled the PfP exhibition area
and the Maritime Component Cell exercise hall.
Lt. Col. Lars Lindberg, representative for the Commanding Officer of the Swedish
Defence Wargaming Centre, discussed with some of the visiting officers,
different aspects of Computer Assisted Exercises (CAX).
- I am glad to see al these military representatives, from PfP/NATO member
states, together here at the Swedish PfP Training Center. This gives us an
excellent opportunity to directly demonstrate, for the armed forces of the
member states, the advantages of the Peace Simulation Network (PSN) concept,
says Lt. Col. Lindberg.
The visiting officers from MCWG were briefed about the ongoing exercise by the
Maritime Cells Commanding Officer, Swedish Rear Admiral (LH) Nils Ove Jansson
and his Deputy/Chief of Staff, Turkish Commander Levent Erkek.
- It was an interesting briefing, said Macedonian Colonel Adreja Naumovski.
- This exercise show us how important cooperation within the PfP is to make the
armed forces, within the organization, to work well together and understand each
other. In today's situation we all see how important this is said Colonel
Naumovski before he joined his group´s departure for Brussels.
Colonel Adreja Naumovski's visitors are; NATO HQ: BrigGen J. Wirtgen, Capt. J.
Luard, Leutnant Col C Foster, Col E Berk, LtCol P Morillon, LtCol R Kosirnik,
Major Stefan Tcholakov, Major Sergeant S Stein, Mrs A Gurun, Mrs A Morrison, Ms
A Peters , LtCol T Allmon, Mr E de Labarthe, Mr B Alcapar PCC: Radm S
Bozoglu, LtCol R Moura SHAPE: LtCol T Bonas, LtCol H Forsman, LtCol T
Abrahamsen, WgCdr J Gritten, SACLANT: Capt R Deal, Col K Mita - Albania, Major D
Tonyan - Armenia, LtCol M Zauner -AUSTRIA, Dr JAVANSHIR Mammadov - Azerbadjan,
LtCol J Vinck - Belgiuque, Col E Radev - Bulgaria, Major Radomir Jahoda-
Czechia, Cdr sg L Gullaksen - Denmark, Capt R Röngelep - Estonia, LtCol S
Wallinmaa - Finland, Col Naumovski, FYROM: Col H Marchand - France, Major L
Sikharulidze - Georgia, LtCol R Retzer - Germania, LtCol T Konstantinos -
Greecia, Major A Rozsa - Hungaria, Major J Avisans - Latvia, Capt Matkenas -
Lithuania, Col C.H Blok - Holand, Cdr Ö Larsen - Norway, Major A Saja - Poland,
LtCol E da Silva - Portugal, Col I Olaru - Romania, Col I Koblen - Slovakia, Col
Y Lakovsek, LtCol A Pravdic - Slovenia, LtCol H Muñoz - Spania, Col A Beeler -
Switzerland, LtCol B Olsson - Sweden, Col A Salashenko - Ukraine, Capt S.J Timms
- United Kingdom, Col A Aldwell - U.S.A., Col P Augarde, Attaché de Defense,
LtGen Percurt Green, Central Joint Commad, Sweden, Col B Andersson, LtCol E Berg
- It was a Hercules brought PFP and NATO officers to Swedish Training Center...
- I am saying Major Stefan Tcholakov, registrated Swede-migrant-soldier
according to this proof; you are looking like a cow...
- Is it in the next week ...your meet?. Next meet with Krönika-guys?
-Yes!...
- Do you ask about, there is another Tcholakov...
- There isn't in SvekJa Kingdom...
- Remember, Scandinavia included four countries, not only Krönika's playing
area!..

**
- Have you any interest on rallies?
- No!.. Why you asked?..
- I guess, you have no knowledge on the masters... Anyway you should know that
there is another Stefan Tcholakov, he is a worldwide famous rally master from
Bulgaria...
- I understand what you mean...
- Right!.. More modernized Swedish system buried another sportsman here in
Araby-Dalbo living cemetery..
- I am afraid of Tel Aviv!....
**
- He is talking about the ZOG, Zionist occupational Gang?
- Resistance movement by the Palestinians' human rights?!
- Not only Palestine; he talks about the "Eruv Maps" on Australia and search the
maps on the Scandinavia...
- There are no coup and no maps in actually...
- Never mind!.. There are really a world coup project and maps, realized on many
regions... He talks on "pilot geografic areas", means Scandinavia and
Australia... Eruv settled in Sydney for instance...
- What is Eruv?
- Under Orthodox Jewish law, Shabbat is a day set apart from the working week.
Family time and spiritual pursuits are emphasised and certain activities
associated with the working week are prohibited. Carrying and pushing
wheelchairs and baby buggies is permitted in private homes and in community
areas whose symbolic boundaries are marked by an eruv. An eruv is simply a
practical method of denoting the area within which carrying and pushing
wheelchairs and baby buggies is permitted.
- Whay they build Eruv?
- They can not bomb like Palestine... European Jews and collaborators love
their own comfortable living; so they can react... Otherway, the Synagogues need
propagand, this is a possibility for them to play that it's not occupation but
religion. Also, according to these fanatics, the Torah requires that Jews not
carry any item, no matter its weight or purpose, in a "Reshus HaRabim" (public
domain) on Shabbos. When one carries from house to house and from house to
street one does an act of society. When one refrains from carrying on Shabbos
one pays tribute to G-d. The law on carrying created severe hardships and
diminished the oneg (joy) of Shabbat. The Religious court of King Solomon sought
to distinguish between a truly public domain where all carrying is prohibited
and a more localized domain, bounded by an eruv where not all carrying is
prohibited. People sllep and thought that all these tales are only the rules of
a religion and never can determine by a property deal alone but by its physical
enclosure. Masspsyco process, most paid invest in the two pilot areas...
- You are talking on the exceptions...
- When it should bee only one or two... There are well over 150 eruvim in
communities all over the world -- and many more in occupied Middle East. Every
major city in North America has one - Toronto, Phoenix, Memphis, Los Angeles,
Boston, Chicago, Providence, Miami, New York City and Washington, D.C., to name
but a few. Outside North America there are eruvs in Johannesburg, Melbourne,
Gibraltar, Antwerp and Strasbourg. The Washington, D.C. eruv includes the White
House. The Strasbourg eruv includes the European Court of Human Rights.
- What!... Jurists joined...
- Not all the jurists... In Geneve they failed by ICJ coup but succeed in
Swedish section of ICJ..
- You know, why they choose Sweden as pilot soft occupatioon area...
- ICJ of Folk Party is not the whole Scandinavia...
- Step after step... Slowly and secure... Folk Party chairman Ahlmark was vice
prime minister...
- Big step... I think he can be arrest when he propagate against the folk...
. Ahlmark?..
- No; Tcholly can be arrest...it is forbidden to critize the Jews and explain
what thet do..."Hets mot folkgrupp" say state prosecutor and when the oppressed
pewrson a Jews, so man arrest...
- But when Ahlmarkk or other server every day spears the hate and traditionally
lies...
- You are talking sometimes like Tcholy... He shall to cell...
- Never!...
- Who said...
- Hanna Zeland, from Integrationsverket... She works there too and their info
possibilities twenty times better then whole your official equipment... Hanna
explain thew get all the religious inspection, too. Tcholly was "holly" in
Bulgaria... Since 13 year been very much isolated from his religious world...
- What do man when travel to fatherland?
- Full isolation from work world and work unions, too... He has no money...
- I saw an retired man, he had not enough money, collected material and
travelled...
- Regularly been called to the offices... like a prison; he must fill many
absurd formulars...
- He is a wonderful man, when he not murdererd the social secretaries...
- This is the one reason; he react not brutally and he thought that this is
Swedish ordinary sytem, valid to everyone...
- Poor Holy...
- The Che Holy!... Because he contacts with the ortodox Cubans...
- Tehere are many Bulgarians here...
- Yes!... Therefore the social department contacts often with Bulgarians and
embassy... He live here fast Bulgarian control, harder than formerly Socalist
Bulgarian... Therefore Tcholy been Che Holy and avoid from destiny friends...
Embassy is very glad, believe in Sweden respect its files...
- He marked that they use Bulgarians againt Bulgarians...
- Absolutely... Better than American prisons... You can pray with your roommate
in Texas prison... Tcholly escaped from its own origin-people been close friend
Cubans..
- Ortodox Cubans are hoppless people... If Che Holy arrested can not run so fast
to be alone and weakness...
- I heard any other reason by meet priest Stanley Sjöberg and the market
planning chief Bijan, when I was bud for the gifts from AIPAC...
- On the Che Holy?!
- Such holiized Chess... all active, sportsman cathegories... They explain it is
better an active man reach enough places to be decharged... Sweden never accept
such immigrant sprotstsman when man registrayted for job possibilities; but
sametime the staff create more possibilities that man never can find in
Bucharest or Moscow...
- When he hadn't contact with fanatical religious groups or wasn't really
academician sportman...
- Only one word enough to to in...
- No!..
- I can give thousands of Swedes...
- Stanley and Bijan discussed that, too... The punishment is very short, mostly
demands payment...
- Who will pay?!
- This is first question... He has nothing to miss... Otherways, prison create a
wild tiger, although such Ches mostly seems jaws out of the water...
- A man, Rainer Holm, sent an e-mail from Gaevle to the Sport Ministry asked for
anything, visited many years the authorities, court and police departments,
Säpo, too... He was a sportsman, boxer... but now lives quite because have pain
and illness and nobody call hoim more to any court or demand prison for him...
- Tcholly send morletters to the ministers..
- Not only ministers, to the King Carl Gustav and uses many hard words...
- You compare good... I understand now, why this Che Holy is outside of the
prison although he wrote mors hard letters...
- Rainer had a job, wanted many concret things by inistry... Tcholy run much
better but no any target... Therefore Rainer prevented but Holy holds free to
run..
- Can have illmness...
- No!... It will be bir present to make him retired although he never had
work...
- Rainer?
- He had job therefore had no problem to be retired...
- He was really ill and other guy is well.
- No matter!... There are many heaby cases never been accepted by the state
reasurance department... Is Tscholly well... Did you not read Dagens Nyheter,
yesterday ten youngs find weapon, how these young racists find weapon don't ask
and they cleansed a Bosnian family... I mean nobody can guarantee any immigrant
in Sweden, so easy...
- I know why all these crominal marionetes labelling as racists-nazists by
Jewish media... But why whole world sleep so deeply; nobody ask...
- What!
- Why the racists never killed a Jew boss in whole contemporary history!... They
are killing only Turks, Kurds, Gypsies and poor citizens... although the
modernized systems have all the technical controll mechanism and
registrative-motorize possibilities, tey are going with special mnarches, all
together, like a festival, burning the houses of immigrants and when the
journalits coming so coming the police etc too... All the versions o f
racist-nazi plays look like same, in the U.S.A:, Australia or Sweden;
absolutaley bad copies of the scenarios... People can wake up and ask...
- Who allowed them?!
- Mamma mia!.. I am afraid of you, too!

**

- Is Bulgarian embassy in the chain...
- Like a kind of reserve staff... archive secretary!..
- Sten Ask?!
- Ahhaa, misunderstanding; excuse me!.. I thought the embasy in Stockholm but
you mean the embassy in Bulgaria, Holy Sten!... You know he is the relative of
Beatrica Ask...
- Who is Beatrice?
- Parliament member by Moderate Party...
- I don't remember such asks... I piss off such politicians who still sleeping
during whole season!?...
- Your wrong!... She works like a night-snake!.. You know; Pinochet was in
Britannia... The judges in London arrested him, formally...
- Yes; I know!... What is the connection with this matter?..
- Chilean migrants visited both the prosecutors and non-governmental
organizations... Main prosecutor demand referrences by parliament... There began
a show and many politicians and Swedish Jews too in first time in the history
signed such declaration... Swedish Amnesty Bolaget's chief was thief Jesus
JACKAL'A, who wrote several articles in the lobby-newspaper D N so people wonder
how the lobby-members want justice... It was a great show on the scene...
Otherway, all the officially accusations which coordinated in Brussels by the
Swedish delegation should reach main prosecutor... Nothing stinks until here...
- After all we heard nothing until PinoShit away...
- Yes; it's funny, why process delayed a long time, so nobody understand what's
up there... They didn't know where is the roofs and all the attached documents..
Mainly accusations -acceptances, proof and the sign collect disappeared there
and prosecutor never had any official exlain...
- Do you know who deleted the coverage and...
- The Holy CHE or the Holy Ghosts!...
- Three ghosts, Marit Paulsen, Anita Gradin and Beatrice!...
- Ask!...
- Ask yourself!..

**


- Do you have contact with the Organisation December 18 ?
- What is its mission?
- It is an online network for the promotion and protection of the Rights of
Migrant Workers. This organisation has been named after December 18, the
international day of solidarity with migrants. December 18 aims at bringing
together NGOs from different regions involved with migrant workers. The core of
our activities is making connections, networking and improving communications.
We provide full text documents and recent information on the issue and in the
near future online databases. December 18 provides a special focus on women
migrant workers and supports the Global Campaign for the Ratification of the
Convention on Migrant Workers.
- OK!... We can send all the proof to the administration of December 18, too...
- Wonderful idea!...
**
- Yes, IMER administration!.. What is the matter?
- We had a lot of material, accuse and attached evidences from Sweden... Migrant
Workers claims the authorities that they affected by the different forms of
discriminations... What can we do? - I know, ECRI and ENAR transferred
before... Start a press conference, cooperate with "our boys" in the all other
official NGO sections, if it about the immigrated Jews from Iran-Irak-Syria!...
- Not at all!... originated from other countries, former Socialist...
- Wait, dear!... Wait; be carefuly, please!... Firstly we must fax their names
to Mrs. Egenberger...Then can we discuss the cases...
**
- We have any new accuses many of them the same persons, for instance
Bulgarian...
- Oowh, I should guess!.. You know, I have just very detailed replies from
Vera...
- What think she to do?
- Nothing special!... She said if you insist issue such kind types, so I'll
remind that Bruxel have difficult about salaries in your section...
- ?!
- Have you difficult to understand too, dear!...
- Well!.. Ehh; what can we write as any formally kind of response?
- Nothing!... Abslutely, nothing!.. Many letters can disappaer on the way ... by
post for instance...
- Diss... but hese are the recommended letters, Sir!..
- It too, ever human!.. In every 6 hours disappera a hiuman in this modern
Union, my dear!.. We never saw and heard any person who called Tcholakowsky...
- But yesterday I saw any new accuses about him on internet too that... -
Are you sure that he signed?.. Yesterday?!.. Check it today again; they all the
manipulated very artistical and on smart way that make laugh you... our experts
who practiced in the psycho sections attached wonderful ass and @!#$ fotos
there..
- Foto; who could take it from him?
- ...from Clinton and Monica Lewinsky files; like all others...
**

-The fanatics of Church living on another planet...
- How you came to this point?
- They are working sometimes like the Zionist fanatics, specially manipulating
the terms, for example, calling "rabbinic technique" the methodes instead of
"Postcritical Criticisms of Historical-Critical Studies"...
-?!
- Read Spinoza but don't criticize the "real system"!
**

- This is not the Cold War but a form of ongoing Cold War... This area demands
the prejudiced scientists...
- Why the oppressed folk don't protest or discuss these problems...
- Ever and never! This is not the results of the football matches... People need
knowledge on biological developments...

**

- I wonder why many immigrants sets to work without language cources meanwhile
many discriminated because of their language is not fluently?
- I met many people too... For example after Warszawa pakt's collapse fleed many
biologs to the occupied Middle East, Australia, Sweden and specially the
laboratory workers sets on the jobs without any oppression...
- Did you found the answer...
- Not directly... I met a family in Sweden, BOLDTs, who coming Polonia or
Baltics... A clever woman, who drive Invandrar Publications, she exåplained that
all these scientits had already one or two international languages what
respected...
- But I know a writer, know six or seven language but Sweden set him too the
cleaner-catch boy courses...
- Yes; I understand... Jolin replied this case too; "maybe the writer criticised
the oligarchical targets..."
- And she publish these subjects on the Invandrar Tidningen? Bravo!...
- You will be chocked; she help to the lobbies to registrate opposite...
- Was she biology-worker in Baltics...
- No!... But system need such fa,milies to follow the people and therefore she
didn't go to the claenar courses and nor any language course although her
vocabulary is worst when I cpompare with other immigrants... Nowadays fixed this
family a credit possbility by the lobbies and Swedish American authorities,
looks like a support to publish weekly propagand bulletin, called "Sesam"...
- Is it propagand bulletin?
- Yes!... Worst and most dangerous in the world...
- Do you exlain; what you discovered by Sesam or BOLDTs althgough theses family
never had a single one scientist, fixed regularly credits...
- I am reading all the numbers of Sesam and seee what this shurk's gang provoce
there: "Immigrants always have problems... Immmigrant can never been accept as
true citizen by this coup although the persons lliving in Sweden before these
propagandists coming... Laponians are the second class people and never discuss
their questions, nor any little explain why they handled like the Gypsies...
According of these shurks there is no Zionist Occupational Gang in the world,
but Palestinians are problematics... Palestinians describes like the immigrants
who oppressed in Sweden... BOLDT and her lap-dogs manipulate the questions of
immigrants and never answer the questions although there is two pages for
responses...
- I know a Jewish paper in USA, redacteur send letters himself and replies later
instead of the true readers...
- Same tactic!... Not only this fetty imbecill's Sesam, all other creit-addicted
papers administrations making copies of ordinary people's letters... mostly all
these half-officially Invandrar papers running on this line... what the
lobbies, so-called registrationsnamnden and the collaborators by the Swedish
ministries like much and therefore pumping money...
- Now I have a little question; is BOLDT-gangs are Jewish originated...
- More dangereous... Members, so-called "edsvurna" by the Zionist lobbies!...
But how you guess about the origins of these shurks?!
- I am not so stupid although I like sometimes discuss football, too...
- ...and maybe a private question, too!.. How you can be so close to Jolin!...
- She like small and younger Africans like a tradition by the bourgeoisise
fetties nowadays and it was plus point when she discovered I am from Ethiopia...
- More question?
- No more, 'cause I have already all the answers on this area specially
experiences by theses kind of chiefs who need my massage... This is biology,
too; bio-physique...

**
- I understand why the regime-critcers been forced to have no real-family
live...They should have children and tehir gens could be living on the eath!
- This is the questions; why the opposite sometimes jailed but sometimes so free
like a paradise...
- No justice!...
- Justice costs... pays with life, sometimes...
- I know a man, who take only 1000 or 1900 Swedish Crown, money...
- In a day or hour?
- In a month when he accept to come to all the foolish interviews, close control
termines...
- How can man show effort to criticize more?
- This is the genetical question and mouse-trap...
- Mouse-.trap?! How and why?
- After Warswzawa Pakt collapse we have most possibilites on this area, for
instance the laboratories... Collaborative areas and Zioinst influenced
researches create an enormous mouse-trap...
- OK! What is the question and what is the relation with a åperson who forced
been jobles and controlled to have no children...
- A good Zionist must believe in that God promised all the goodness to him and
collaborated... and a good collaborator have right to choose to be good follower
and not more rights than a dog... excuse me, so I can exlpain; insted of
secnond class people's gen-technique I can describe case "to be a collborated
dog"...
- Are there peoples can accept to be second class...
- Look to the South American Indians, traitorous Kurds who find job by the
Swedish authorities when they accepted never criticize occupational gangs...
See, Folk Party representatives, never been jobless...
- Laboratory effects?!
- Ongoing serarching... Gen technique will create a final weapon...
- Do you believe all about stupidies and followers?
- I want only not be jobless when my children asking on future... Difficult
situation... When I was a real citizen in Sweden or Israel, I could be
immediately suicide, so I can not accept to live in different characters, what
others do like a tradition or New World Order's new religion...
- Why the immigrant papers never published thiese cases...
- Laboratories scandals... They must be really journalists and independent and
most important what, tha must understand a little bit on the biological
developments, civil-courage on such secret issues...
- I mean, the men who forced been high-educated jobless and earn only 1 000 in
month... Why they didn't take fotos of this hell...
- I know a man, who did himself?
- Incredible!..
- Yes!.. Therefore the lobbies created incredible treatment methodes on him...
He is not going to the dentist but pay to the fotos and posting the scandals...
Poor man believe in that all these owners of periodicals are professional
journalists or honoured persons... He realized many demonstrations too but not a
single one photografer or journalist issud such scandals... For example the
gangs of Sesam-Invandrar betrayer newspaper refused to show any human
interest... Unfortunately, his fotos and letters been sended to the ADL-center
for any extra methodes...
- Are there no single one authority in this hell to stop all these foolish
cases...
- You mean revolution!... I think your permittance finished...
- Yes!.. I left my true pass.... But I am asking really I confused on such poor
men... Are there women, too!..
- Yes!.. Fadime Sahin and Pela and all other who murdered when they falled in
love with Jewish boys...
- When they should fall in love with ordinary people?
- So you should never hear their names...
- My brain stopped...
-We are searching the brains... Therefore every they disappear 6 or 8
Palestinian youngs in the occupied Palestine...
- Searh The Holy Che, instead of youngs!
- Thcolakov borned in 1944 and his brain costs nothing by us...
- But why you follow him so efectively?
- Because he is one of the living mice in our mouse-traps... Otherway we can not
coordinate with the local authorities.. He must on act so we can create reason
to collaborate...
- How many Holy Che there are in the whole E.U.?
- I don't know!.. Really I can't know... I must to know nothoing on such
areas... I am working out of the laboratories...
- I know!
-?!
- How many people insist to criticize the New World Order, so much Holies we
have... Don't laugh; I can guess 'cause my maipulated pass too not valid more...
- OK!...Bye dear!.. But how you can create msotly new passes although you
collapsed the good relations with our lobbies...
- I have a cute in Integrationsverket, Hanna Zeland, she helps me on the
bureaucraticals matters, what not costs extra than Malmskillnad Street's
cutes... I can recommed her friends; do you like the blondies or Jewish types?
- No, thanks!...I have already both kinds of such instruments...
- OK, Sir... Ciao!

**
- Mr. Dimitrov! - Dimiter!... Stefan Dimiter... - I read
what AMS wrote... Stefan, maybe we could accept you as a simply staff... - Do
that!... I don't understand what is your incredible reason or your mystical
preventation, Madame? - Not mine, but the description of our chiefs at the
Laens administration and Job office's... According to all these proof, it
would better you never studied in the academy! - What?! Plese talk
friendly, not officially!... I really wish understand you!... - Okay,
then!..."Education is indoctrination if you're white; subjugation if you're
black!.." - You mean?! - Not me, but James A. Baldwin!... I
can't mean anything, 'cause I am a ordinary staff !
- ?!

**
- It's not true!.. They are not the "our boys"... We can not control so
perfectly all the people when we hadn't so much willing instruments... But it's
riskable and you can't guess what they do... this last case for instance...
local staff was gone very fast for instance Matz Hagman, he is Araby-Dalbo
center's chief and stopped all the registrated persons even in their own
homes... The Holy Che has right when he accuse that he couldn't downöloading by
Explorer and Netscape...
- We had very useful hunds when I joined before the trainee camps, you know!...
If you command "aport, boy! Take it to me! It could took the things to you,
without any defect... Here in SvekJa Kingdom I met many persons, like Clas
Lilja, Matz Hagman, Jackie Arklöv, Clas Järmen, Stefan Horberg, Tobias Axelsson,
many of them joined the "NATO troops" of United US-Nations on Balkan, they came
back with the bloody hands... Sometimes, I feel bad and thinking that maybe our
trained hunds were more clever and more human than such all these SwedoJewish
rubbish rabbies...
- Otherway, I informed about the abuse sections of the Breadband Aktie Bolaget;
there is no one of them... Two gays, I never met; Jonas Nylund, Tommy Nilsson...
- I understand, what you searched about the real responsibles... System set
anybody on target as moose, every foxy calls himself jager-master...

- You forget to account the chiefs of the Royal Jobb Office...
- Kerstin Håkansson, Niclas Olsson and such instruments, you mean... -
...and so-called Social Förvaltning... - No!... I didn't forget... When
I compare the real animals by the side of human-faced animals so I can not be
sure so easy on the second art... Animal-art disappoint from the earth,
meanwhile human characters still changed and deformative-performed on the
graphical lines of a strange modernized cruelity...Anyway, you remembred me a
joke; the Swedsih Daily Dagens Nyheter stoled from "The Wizard of ID" series and
published today on July 1, 2002. I wish tell what I liked about these
caricatures: Worker wanted... Anybody needes to serve for horses there, like
Swedish Täby-gallop-stables... There is notice behind the chief; "Stablehand
wanted"... Okay!... Job-seeker coming and asking; "What is the employee-horse
ratio here?" Understand; we wonder about procents, horses and
staff...compare...Chief replies: "I think you may be overqualified"!... and
frankly the poor job-seeker been refused
- What is the connection with Vaexjö Job Office's personnel who still refusee
The Holy Che?!
- .I'll replay you with another question? Carlos Martinez who has few points
when you compare Tcholakov's academician carrieer and diploms... Okay!... Why
this one immigrant has chief position on the project International
Programkontoiret's Nätverk Interpraktik, which refussed to send invitation to
the joibles immigrant Tcholy?... Why? If you don't know the immigrant Carlos so
I can tell about another shurk, Bijan Fahimi, more higher as chair but more
lower as human-qualifications... Why many immigrants, like Bijan, sitting in the
chief chairs meanwhile any other immigrants are jobles like Tcholy who have real
diploms?! Why?!...
- Fredrik Malm came from Stockholm, visited first the authorities in Växjö and
left a list to the members of lobby...
- But why?!
- I don't know... Actually I heard there are the thieves who been staff at
so-called Länsarbetsnämnden Kronoberg... But when we talk about the job
possibilities and such subject so I don't know anything about the persons who
discriminated... any logical reason?! No, I can't guess!...
- Typical Swedish you can't guess and therefore you have good job at the
etablissemanget's loyalty play-mature Birgitta Johansson ...


**



- Lobbies in SvekJa Kingdom have never complained Tcholakov when he use his
first language! I wonder embassy of Bulgaria...
- No!... It is not diplomatic question anyway we have good friends for
interprettion specially on the registrated in Svekia and Australia, yes a
special group...
- Who are working in this neo group; our boys...
- No!.. Younger generation... Group founded in Russia as a Disinformation
Foundation what Jeltsin allowed for a handful money by AIPAC.. Group calls for
Partner-Friends and I met five of them; Natasha Bulashova, Greg Cole and
others...
- I now only Tanya Stepanova, Evgeny Mitkovskiy, Tatiana Provorova, Ivan
Revyakin, Zhenya Kozlova, Lera Gonchukova...
- Kidding?!... They are in the same lobbies...
- They earn better than us...
- Because of it is a special project coordinated on the E.U.-strategical
targets... When Sweden has been member by E.U. in 1995 we had problems 'cause
many collaborated staff moved to Bruxel... Otherways we pointed leakage when
especially KPML(r)'s letter-copies delayed by Swede-friends... SKP, Proletarens
writers and many populaire persons started a campaign against registration... So
AIPAC/ADL accepted the suggestions of our lobbies, started a half-legally
interpretation/disinformation center in Russia in the beginning 1996 like F & P
because Russian had no really a FP...
- F&P is amblem of Friend Partners but I didn't understand the second one FP...
- It's my adding... joke with the namen of Swedish Jews Party Folk pogrom
industri liars...
- I wonder the neo-Zionist organizatoions like F&P Russia... Functioned it
better? - Better than Swedish liberal investigations... In the beginning we
had reactions, because it seems like a long way for instance from Växjö or
Sofia... balance with knowledge on overseas... willing Eurpeens were more clumsy
than the East Side's willings...other negative factor... many friends could
contact to Moscow who never met... But today's technigue create all the possible
dreams to true...
- Like SMS...
- More easier; look to my lap-top connected Ahlmark's mobile, he is ready for a
new article to Dagens Nyheter paper shall publish in meantime in Moscow-New
Jersey-Tel Aviv and he replies all the critics; critics included a list for
instance SKP, KPLM(r), Solidarity, Norway's links, Laponian revolutionaries and
individuals like The Holy Che, Per Gahrton, Sten Andersson and other Palestinian
Friends...only one click...
- Partners-Friends against Palestinian Friends? Good idea!... Bravo Boris!
- Against all the anti-Imperialists!... Click now!.. Enough...Five more dead in
Betlehem; don't wait to interprete it, when tehy were Jews so you send info that
suicide suspicious, but when they were the Arabs so add absolutely they were the
terrorists...Click; been Headline suggestion of Jerusalem Post and Expressen in
meantime!...
- ...and next day sell this news all over the world medie... We should be
journalists instead of presentation as Integration Verket staff...
- What kind of integration!.. don't make me laugh more...laughing foolish so
I'll die in this hypocrisy system... - "Humor prevents one from becoming a
tragic figure even though he / she is involved in tragic events.".. - You mean
I am laughing much... - Not me!... E. T. Eberhart described such
situations...
- ?!

**
- Destiny! - No, dear!... A short film on a real educated
sportsman... But a little important nuance only, film scene been changed because
of this sportsman joint to the West after "Berlin-Wall-Down"... and met the face
of Zionist cruelity...
- Shameful!... - Shame on David Zaudy!... - Zaudy?! Who
is that man? - Called to me yesterday!... Asked on the accusations of
the registrated critics... - You should say that it's a official
institution... We can not explain the secret subjects... - I did, but he
interessed of a compare... - Compare? - Yes!... Expressen
has already any proof.... Don't look at me so strange! I didn't sell any
material from archive... - No!.. I wonder just on another thing... David Zaudy
was staff by Jerusalem Post when I met him in New York at Olle Westberg's
consulate department, presented himself as practician by Jewish press and
showed me a press card which labelled Jerusalem Post... You say now he called
youv just from Expressen redaction... - Plus he has no journalistic carrier
like many other Jewish staff who fixed two pass... and plus he took two salary
yesterday, both in Stockholm and Tel Aviv... plus... - Enough, Sir!... I
shame of SvekJa Kingdom!... I wonder how many Jews have double pass without any
formally migration acceptance....plus I wonder why Swedish "Constitutionally
State Chief" King Carl Gustaf, so generous to the lobby relatives and meanwhile
he has no double pass or double tittle?.. - He has, too! Like all others who serving around of him...
- ?!

***

now that's a damn long post that I just can't understand. No offense, but your English isn't so good and its pretty hard to understand you. Maybe you could try with just making one point or one issue at a time so we could ask questions if we don't understand. I hardly understand any of the point you are trying to make.

I am a Jew, I would never be a Zionists. To bad a few make it bad for all. I am for peace. Peace for all people. We do not have to get along? But, it is a LIE for a Jew to say what is being done is fair. It is a LIE.
Shame on all who will now see it. Shame

Oh, do go fuck yourself Campbell. Fucking racist cunt.