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Indybay Feature
Why we launched the boycott of Israeli institutions
July 15, 2002 - A cultural and economic boycott against Israel is slowly assembling
Why we launched the boycott of Israeli institutions
Hilary Rose and Steven Rose
The carnage in the Middle East continues; today a suicide bomber, tomorrow an Israeli strike on Palestinians with helicopters, missiles and tanks. The Israelis continue to invade Palestinian towns and expand illegal settlements in the occupied territories. Ariel Sharon refuses to negotiate while "violence" (ie Palestinian resistance) continues. Our own government sheds crocodile tears at the loss of life while inviting a prime minister accused of war crimes to lunch and providing his military with F16 spare parts.
Yet every rational person knows that the only prospect of a just and lasting peace lies in Israel's recognition of the legitimacy of a Palestinian state and the Arab world's acceptance of a secure Israel behind its 1967 borders. That is what every peace plan proposes. But how to get from here to there? Is there anything that ordinary citizens, that is civil society, can do to bring pressure to bear to compel our governments and international institutions to move the peace process forward?
One of the nonviolent weapons open to civil society to express its moral outrage is the boycott. Internationally this has been most successful against apartheid South Africa. It took many years but ultimately shamed governments and multinational corporations into isolating this iniquitous regime. The boycott called last year by Palestinian solidarity movements was against Israeli products. This too moves slowly, but only a couple of weeks ago it
secured a ban on the sale of settlement-produced goods illegally labelled "made in Israel".
The international academic, cultural and sporting communities had played a major part in isolating South Africa and we have increasingly learned of individuals who thought that cooperating with Israeli institutions was like collaborating with the apartheid regime. A writer refused to have her play acted in Israel, a musician turns down an invitation to perform or an academic to attend a conference.
It was these individual ethical refusals which led us to make the restricted call for a moratorium on European
research and academic collaboration with Israeli institutions until the Israeli government opened serious peace negotiations. We noted that Israel, a Middle Eastern state, was accepted as an integral part of the European scientific community while its neighbours were not. We canvassed a draft of the letter among colleagues in the UK and other European countries, and within days signatures of support came flowing in.
When the letter was published in the Guardian in April, it had over 120 names on it. A matching letter was published in France; its website now carries more than a thousand names. Another call was published in Italy, another in Australia. The Association of University Teachers adopted the moratorium call; the lecturers' union, Natfhe, an even
stronger resolution. In similar vein an advertisement signed by Jewish Americans appeared in the New York Times calling for US disinvestment from Israel until peace negotiations were opened.
What is self-evident is that a cultural and economic boycott is slowly assembling. It is not one monolithic entity. It varies from the very modest resistance suggested in our initial letter, such as personally refusing to take part in collaborative research with Israeli institutions, to more public gestures of opposition. Such acts are painful, even though the target is institutional, actions often mean a breach with longstanding colleagues. It is thus important that
the boycott is coupled with positive support for those Israeli refuseniks who continue to oppose the actions of their elected government.
It is this that makes suggestions, such as that by Jonathan Freedland in last week's Guardian, that the boycott is in some way comparable to that imposed by Nazi Germany on Jewish shops, so grotesquely hyperbolic. It matches the many hate emails that those who have endorsed the boycott have received, accusing them of anti-semitism or even Holocaust denial. If the supporters of the Israeli government cannot distinguish between being opposed to Israeli state policy and being anti-semitic, it is scarcely surprising that real anti-semites conflate the two.
Faced with this growing international movement, some have cried foul. Does the boycott not risk endangering those fragile academic links between Israelis and Palestinians that do exist? Yet these are in far greater danger as a result of the restrictions on movement which the Israeli government places on Palestinian researchers, and the repeated attempts to close down Palestinian universities. And no Palestinian has voiced this concern; on the contrary many among their academic community, such as those at the University at Bir Zeit, have endorsed the boycott call as helping to draw attention to the brutal restrictions on their academic freedom to teach, study and research.
The exaggerated attention to the "academic freedom" issues raised by the unilateral removal from an editorial board of two Israeli academics by one signatory to the boycott call is like focusing on a potential local mote to avoid the flagrantinternational beam. This sudden institutional preoccupation with academic freedom is not without historical interest.
During the height of the student movement of the late 1960s, university lecturer Robin Blackburn was sacked for a post-hoc endorsement of students who removed the London School of Economics gates. There was a resounding silence at this breach of his right to free speech. But it is strange to hear academic freedom invoked as an abstraction in a university world where much research is funded by corporate industrial interests, and where a biological research topic can be closed by a patent agreement. Only a couple of weeks ago two Harvard post-doctoral researchers were threatened with jail for sending cloned material from the lab in which they were working to one to which they were moving.
Unlike some of those whistle blowers who have called attention to the hazards of genetic engineering, no one is likely to lose their jobs as a result of being boycotted. At worst they risk isolation from the nIternational academic research community. Those who have been threatened with dismissal, and worse, for supporting the boycott are those few courageous Israelis who have endorsed the call.
The choice today for civil society - and academics and researchers are part of civil society - is to remain silent and do nothing or to try to bring pressure to bear. Archbishop Desmond Tutu's statement of support for the boycott closed with this quote from Martin Luther King: "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."
· Hilary Rose is professor of social policy at Bradford University; Steven Rose is professor of biology at the Open University. They codrafted the Israel academic moratorium call.
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A boycott against Israel may not be anti-semitic(or it may be), but it demonstrates a misunderstanding of the current situation. Most Israelis agree on the need for a Palestinian state and withdrawing to the 1967 borders. In fact, the Palestinians were offered such a proposal at Camp David. No, that proposal was not perfect, but neither is the response of sending waves of suicide bombers to gain through war what was unachievable through negotiation.
If you want to convince the US to stop sending arms to Israel, then you should also consider a boycott to bring attention to the arms being supplied to the Palestinians by the Saudis, Iranians, and the Syrians. Also, do not pretend that the escalation in the intifada has nothing to do with Al-Qaeda. There is coordination by Islamic extremists throughout the Middle East. If you have forgotten, they do not look kindly upon the existence of Israel whatsoever.
This boycott is one-sided and poorly thought out. Academics should be able to look at a situation objectively, but they are not. They believe one side is good and one side is all bad. This is simply ridiculous. A real solution will occur when suicide bombings stop, and Israelis feel safe enough to evict Sharon. Until that time, there will be no peace.
If you want to convince the US to stop sending arms to Israel, then you should also consider a boycott to bring attention to the arms being supplied to the Palestinians by the Saudis, Iranians, and the Syrians. Also, do not pretend that the escalation in the intifada has nothing to do with Al-Qaeda. There is coordination by Islamic extremists throughout the Middle East. If you have forgotten, they do not look kindly upon the existence of Israel whatsoever.
This boycott is one-sided and poorly thought out. Academics should be able to look at a situation objectively, but they are not. They believe one side is good and one side is all bad. This is simply ridiculous. A real solution will occur when suicide bombings stop, and Israelis feel safe enough to evict Sharon. Until that time, there will be no peace.
It's interesting to note the almost comprehensive condemnation Prof. Mona Baker has received, both by academic and political leaders, when she actually tried to push the boycott past the "listening to ourselves preach" stage.
The University of Manchester, where Baker teaches, has officially said, "We strongly believe that discrimination is unacceptable, that the Israeli academics should not have been removed, and that this decision was wrong."
The boycott is not only silly and counterproductive, but it just doesn't _work_; it can't be implemented.
@%<
The University of Manchester, where Baker teaches, has officially said, "We strongly believe that discrimination is unacceptable, that the Israeli academics should not have been removed, and that this decision was wrong."
The boycott is not only silly and counterproductive, but it just doesn't _work_; it can't be implemented.
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Boycotting academic discourse can only be truly disastrous, and I am not sure what the point Ms. Baker was trying to make. Boycotting goods that come from settlements in teh occupied territory is a good way to protest against them, this is also being done by many people in europe.
But as far this goes: "If you want to convince the US to stop sending arms to Israel, then you should also consider a boycott to bring attention to the arms being supplied to the Palestinians by the Saudis, Iranians, and the Syrians."
The amount of arms the US sends Israel is grossly disproportianate than all the arms sent by all those countries combined. Most of us are arguing against the US unchecked support for Israel, and see this as being a source for the Muslims who hate us.
But as far this goes: "If you want to convince the US to stop sending arms to Israel, then you should also consider a boycott to bring attention to the arms being supplied to the Palestinians by the Saudis, Iranians, and the Syrians."
The amount of arms the US sends Israel is grossly disproportianate than all the arms sent by all those countries combined. Most of us are arguing against the US unchecked support for Israel, and see this as being a source for the Muslims who hate us.
Your call for a boycott actually tars all Israeli academics with the dirty brush of the Zionist State and the Sharon government. Some academics who have already been victimized by your call actually are strong opponents of Israeli state policy. Your call will only injure attempts to build an opposition within that country.
George Orwell would have loved this. I especially like the use of quotation marks around the word "violence", or the equivalence between the actions of a suicide bomber and people working to stop them.
Yes, let's make UK academia 'Judenrein'.
Or would you settle for just making them wear yellow stars?
PK
Yes, let's make UK academia 'Judenrein'.
Or would you settle for just making them wear yellow stars?
PK
note to idiot, who is it that employs the forcible use of arm bands, multi colored number plates and a plethora of materials to differentiate the ones they subjugate from themselves?
palestinian vehicles use yellow number plates - a method employed by the israelis to stop every palestinian vehicle, while white number plated israeli vehicles move without hinderance throughout the occupied territories.
displaying nazi like maxims of occupation, the thousands of palestinian teenagers arrested during the latest israeli reoccupation - whimsically termed operation defensive shield - drew striking parrallels with the nazis in how thousands of jewish youth were rounded up, publicly undressed, blindfolded and splashed with paint on their forearms and chest - marking them like cattle.
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its always a delight when reich wing automatons mention g orwell in reference to their position on things, how very laughable.
palestinian vehicles use yellow number plates - a method employed by the israelis to stop every palestinian vehicle, while white number plated israeli vehicles move without hinderance throughout the occupied territories.
displaying nazi like maxims of occupation, the thousands of palestinian teenagers arrested during the latest israeli reoccupation - whimsically termed operation defensive shield - drew striking parrallels with the nazis in how thousands of jewish youth were rounded up, publicly undressed, blindfolded and splashed with paint on their forearms and chest - marking them like cattle.
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its always a delight when reich wing automatons mention g orwell in reference to their position on things, how very laughable.
note to idiot, who is it that employs the forcible use of arm bands, multi colored number plates and a plethora of materials to differentiate the ones they subjugate from themselves?
palestinian vehicles use yellow number plates - a method employed by the israelis to stop every palestinian vehicle, while white number plated israeli vehicles move without hinderance throughout the occupied territories.
displaying nazi like maxims of occupation, the thousands of palestinian teenagers arrested during the latest israeli reoccupation - whimsically termed operation defensive shield - drew striking parrallels with the nazis in how thousands of jewish youth were rounded up, publicly undressed, blindfolded and splashed with paint on their forearms and chest - marking them like cattle.
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its always a delight when reich wing automatons mention g orwell in reference to their position on things, how very laughable.
palestinian vehicles use yellow number plates - a method employed by the israelis to stop every palestinian vehicle, while white number plated israeli vehicles move without hinderance throughout the occupied territories.
displaying nazi like maxims of occupation, the thousands of palestinian teenagers arrested during the latest israeli reoccupation - whimsically termed operation defensive shield - drew striking parrallels with the nazis in how thousands of jewish youth were rounded up, publicly undressed, blindfolded and splashed with paint on their forearms and chest - marking them like cattle.
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its always a delight when reich wing automatons mention g orwell in reference to their position on things, how very laughable.
When these guys go berserk on US soil, you'll understand
Groups of Arabs already have gone "beserk" in the US before, they might not have neccesarily been so succesfull all the time but let us remeber that Al-Queda always lists the US support of Israel as #1 on its list of grievences. So yeah they already have, and no i still will not agree with the occupation or the apartheid or the recent Israeli military actions. And neither does the majority of the world.
A group of parents are boycotting a Durham, N.C., mall, for no apparent reason, News 14 Carolina reports:
Monday afternoon, angry parents at Hillside High School asked the black community to stop shopping at the mall. The parents are upset about changes the school district is making at the high school including the removal of its principal.
The parents admit there's no connection between the mall and the district. All they will say is they want to use their buying power as leverage.
http://rdu.news14.com/content/top_stories/?ArID=9428
Monday afternoon, angry parents at Hillside High School asked the black community to stop shopping at the mall. The parents are upset about changes the school district is making at the high school including the removal of its principal.
The parents admit there's no connection between the mall and the district. All they will say is they want to use their buying power as leverage.
http://rdu.news14.com/content/top_stories/?ArID=9428
"with the occupation or the apartheid or the recent Israeli military actions"
what apartheid? what would you suggest the Israelis do?
what apartheid? what would you suggest the Israelis do?
Israel has a very racist history. If the US would implement the same racial profiling techniques here it would be political suicide. It is shown thrown land aquisition acts passed by the Likud in order to take land from Arabs Israeli and give it jewish immigrants. Most recently, the israeli left somehow muscled up enough power to stop legistlation which would have prevented that of land it usurped (which covers about 90% of the land in the country) from going to any arabs. Thanks again to the Labor Party's reps for not making a bad situation worse. now only if they got more power...What do I suggest Israel do? Pull back to the 1967 borders and to get the damned settlements out of the west bank and gaza. In other words end the Occupation, and free Palestine.
Thank you for pointing that out. It's an unusual characteristic of a country in that region, eh, Mr T? Amazing how you find racism, xenophobia, mysogeny, and homophobia acceptable for some people
Those other countries never flaunt things like: we are the only democratic country in the region, now do they? In addition to say it happens elsewhere is no excuse whatsoever to continue the practice. That would be like saying well since slavery exists in the Sudand its ok for it be here too. And again i must remind you that I never said any of it was ok.
Israel IS the only democratic country in the Middle East and, let's not forget the only true ally of the USA in the region. Let's not forget that Jews are the indigenous people of Israel, including Judea and Samaria (West Bank) and even have historical, archeologically proven claims to parts of Gaza and the Golan.
It strikes me as odd that some activists - who are supposed to be people that are politically aware- will fight for the rights of indigenous nations and people to claim their ancestral lands but may be adamantly opposed to Jews living in their ancestral lands. Just think about this little fact - Bethlehem where Jesus was born was part of Israel 600 years before the birth of Islam. Today it is in the West Bank which previously belonged to Jordan and is now "claimed as part of a new Palestinian State. So then, who is the occupier, the people who were living on the land over 3 thousand years ago or Arafat and his people?
Just a little food for thought to perk up your ears and help you think about things.
It strikes me as odd that some activists - who are supposed to be people that are politically aware- will fight for the rights of indigenous nations and people to claim their ancestral lands but may be adamantly opposed to Jews living in their ancestral lands. Just think about this little fact - Bethlehem where Jesus was born was part of Israel 600 years before the birth of Islam. Today it is in the West Bank which previously belonged to Jordan and is now "claimed as part of a new Palestinian State. So then, who is the occupier, the people who were living on the land over 3 thousand years ago or Arafat and his people?
Just a little food for thought to perk up your ears and help you think about things.
This whole bit of an ancestral claim, is to me really odd. It is odd to try to trace it first and foremost. Evidence does exist however, as well as some evidence that attests to the ancestral claim, that many jews, however not all have to that land. But take it further, in terms of migration. People have migrated to so many different places, if we traced our routes back as far as 600 hundred AD many of us would have ties/claims to many different regions littered all throughout the world. Obviously this is not an idealogy adhered to by many of us. Aside from that, tracing a bloodline to who actually lived where two thousand years ago is impossible, as there of course were many different people who lived there and had control over that area over the course of history. If you really want me to point out exactly who where and when of this I certainly could but it would be rather time consuming. So even if you could prove that ancient Israelites were the SOLE inhabitants of this land, and even if you could prove in a scientific manner how contemproary jews are so exclusively linked to these ancient people, then you have to go to the validity of the entire arguement itself, which is that because an ancestor of mine, whom I have no family tree whatsoever proving my lineage to this person, lived there 2000 years ago this land is mine and not you and your community who has lived year since what 700 AD. Its kind of weird. In a strictly temporal sense, as to who has stayed there longer, arguements can be made that many Arabs have been there longer, or at least almost as long. Basically, that whole arguement, which backs up the occupation according "ancestral" claims holds little to no weight, and when under srutiny floats away.
never flaunt these things." Great logic. We should not boycott Muslim countries whose human rights records are far more dispicable then Isreal because they try and cover up the hatred, discrimination and repression of women, gays, Jews, HIndus, and Christians to us in the West so we don't know how vile their attitudes towards the above groups are. Try reading their newspapers and yo will see just how much pro-racist propoganda they dispel. The Tehran Times (tehrantimes.com) is a great place to start, Saudi Arabia doesn't have an english language newpaper no doubt because with articles like the recent one claiming jews make pastry out of gentile childrens blood they really don't want outsiders to know what they are encouraging their citizens to think.
There are also paphlets distributed aat Mosques telling "good Muslims" mustn't smile at infidels- aka nonmuslims.
There are also paphlets distributed aat Mosques telling "good Muslims" mustn't smile at infidels- aka nonmuslims.
The wrongdoings of other countries or other Arabs is still no excuse for the occupation and humilaition of the Palestinain people. Again I will remind you that I never have supported these actions, and I still can never understand how you think this makes sense to refute what I have just said by listing off problems with Suadi Arabia or Iran or where ever.
I think the point that was being made is:
Why are you focusing your attention on the smaller of the problems. If you really are concerned about allegations of racism, discrimination, human rights abuses, political corruption, should you not tackle the worst offenders first? Does it make any sense to virtually ignore these other regimes simply because they are not open to critisism like Israel is - since Israel is a democratic country and is an easy target.
Your kind of logic is discriminitory itself. Israel should be applauded for allowing free speech not critisised. If your logic, Mr T, holds true than all Israel has to do to turn world attention away from them is to behave in the same manner as their neighbours.
Bye the way when was the last time you critisised the Palestinian Authority for the executions of over 800 of their people for political reasons. When was the last time you critisied the Egyptian government for imprisoning thousands of fundamentalists and tourturing and killing hundreds. Etc, etc,
The point is why do people like you go after the Jewish Factor. Could it be that you have something personal against the Jews, a hidden agenda? Bye the way, Mr. T, you seem to have an awful lot of time on your hands to disseminate your anti-Israel views. Are you simply out of work at the moment or is this your real work?
Why are you focusing your attention on the smaller of the problems. If you really are concerned about allegations of racism, discrimination, human rights abuses, political corruption, should you not tackle the worst offenders first? Does it make any sense to virtually ignore these other regimes simply because they are not open to critisism like Israel is - since Israel is a democratic country and is an easy target.
Your kind of logic is discriminitory itself. Israel should be applauded for allowing free speech not critisised. If your logic, Mr T, holds true than all Israel has to do to turn world attention away from them is to behave in the same manner as their neighbours.
Bye the way when was the last time you critisised the Palestinian Authority for the executions of over 800 of their people for political reasons. When was the last time you critisied the Egyptian government for imprisoning thousands of fundamentalists and tourturing and killing hundreds. Etc, etc,
The point is why do people like you go after the Jewish Factor. Could it be that you have something personal against the Jews, a hidden agenda? Bye the way, Mr. T, you seem to have an awful lot of time on your hands to disseminate your anti-Israel views. Are you simply out of work at the moment or is this your real work?
If Israel was democratic the Palestinians in the West Bank would be able to vote in Israeli elections. The settlers can vote why can't the Palestinians.
Human rights abuses in other Middle Eastern countries may be bad but they hardly live up to the horrors of occupation(lack of freedom of movement, curfews, assasination by rockets, lack of the ability to vote, demolition of the homes of innocent people only related to those comitting attacks, movement of Palestinians from homes to make room for Jewish settlers etc...). Treatment of women in Saudi Arabia may be close to Israel's treatment of Palestinians but there is not much else that can compare.
Human rights abuses in other Middle Eastern countries may be bad but they hardly live up to the horrors of occupation(lack of freedom of movement, curfews, assasination by rockets, lack of the ability to vote, demolition of the homes of innocent people only related to those comitting attacks, movement of Palestinians from homes to make room for Jewish settlers etc...). Treatment of women in Saudi Arabia may be close to Israel's treatment of Palestinians but there is not much else that can compare.
Israeli citizens can vote. The Palestinians in the West Bank are not citizens of Israel.
Speaking of voting, how many rulers of the Arab nations were elected?
Speaking of voting, how many rulers of the Arab nations were elected?
I am still waiting for a reply from AN. So I'll try again:
I think the point that was being made is:
Why are you focusing your attention on the smaller of the problems. If you really are concerned about allegations of racism, discrimination, human rights abuses, political corruption, should you not tackle the worst offenders first? Does it make any sense to virtually ignore these other regimes simply because they are not open to critisism like Israel is - since Israel is a democratic country and is an easy target.
Your kind of logic is discriminitory itself. Israel should be applauded for allowing free speech not critisised. If your logic, Mr T, holds true than all Israel has to do to turn world attention away from them is to behave in the same manner as their neighbours.
Bye the way when was the last time you critisised the Palestinian Authority for the executions of over 800 of their people for political reasons. When was the last time you critisied the Egyptian government for imprisoning thousands of fundamentalists and tourturing and killing hundreds. Etc, etc,
The point is why do people like you go after the Jewish Factor. Could it be that you have something personal against the Jews, a hidden agenda? Bye the way, Mr. T, you seem to have an awful lot of time on your hands to disseminate your anti-Israel views. Are you simply out of work at the moment or is this your real work?
I think the point that was being made is:
Why are you focusing your attention on the smaller of the problems. If you really are concerned about allegations of racism, discrimination, human rights abuses, political corruption, should you not tackle the worst offenders first? Does it make any sense to virtually ignore these other regimes simply because they are not open to critisism like Israel is - since Israel is a democratic country and is an easy target.
Your kind of logic is discriminitory itself. Israel should be applauded for allowing free speech not critisised. If your logic, Mr T, holds true than all Israel has to do to turn world attention away from them is to behave in the same manner as their neighbours.
Bye the way when was the last time you critisised the Palestinian Authority for the executions of over 800 of their people for political reasons. When was the last time you critisied the Egyptian government for imprisoning thousands of fundamentalists and tourturing and killing hundreds. Etc, etc,
The point is why do people like you go after the Jewish Factor. Could it be that you have something personal against the Jews, a hidden agenda? Bye the way, Mr. T, you seem to have an awful lot of time on your hands to disseminate your anti-Israel views. Are you simply out of work at the moment or is this your real work?
"The Palestinians in the West Bank are not citizens of Israel"
So what exactly are they citizens of? They havn't moved anywhere recently so surely they should either have their own state or be citizens of Israel. Why can I (being a Jewish American) move to Israel and become a citizen while a native Palestinian can not? If thats not an extreme form a racism I dont know what is.
You may claim that other countries in the region are worse but I dont know any other country in the region that has ever has as harsh curfews and restrictions on movements as those imposed on the Palestinian people.
Perhaps you can come up with one or two cases that are worse (like the slave trade in S Sudan) but two wrongs do not make a right.
I protest against whats happening in Israel because I have relatives there and feel a connection. I could protest against the situation in Tibet or Sudan but the horrors there (which I know less about due to fewer connections) dont make the situation any better. The "why arnt you complianing about this other tragedy" line of argument is pointless. Should we never have protested about S Africa because we didnt pay enough attention to Uganda? Should we never have protested the war in El Salvador because we could have been protesting the USSR's role in Afghanistan. Should we never have complained about Hitler because we could have been complaining about Stalin?
So what exactly are they citizens of? They havn't moved anywhere recently so surely they should either have their own state or be citizens of Israel. Why can I (being a Jewish American) move to Israel and become a citizen while a native Palestinian can not? If thats not an extreme form a racism I dont know what is.
You may claim that other countries in the region are worse but I dont know any other country in the region that has ever has as harsh curfews and restrictions on movements as those imposed on the Palestinian people.
Perhaps you can come up with one or two cases that are worse (like the slave trade in S Sudan) but two wrongs do not make a right.
I protest against whats happening in Israel because I have relatives there and feel a connection. I could protest against the situation in Tibet or Sudan but the horrors there (which I know less about due to fewer connections) dont make the situation any better. The "why arnt you complianing about this other tragedy" line of argument is pointless. Should we never have protested about S Africa because we didnt pay enough attention to Uganda? Should we never have protested the war in El Salvador because we could have been protesting the USSR's role in Afghanistan. Should we never have complained about Hitler because we could have been complaining about Stalin?
"The point is why do people like you go after the Jewish Factor. Could it be that you have something personal against the Jews, a hidden agenda? Bye the way, Mr. T, you seem to have an awful lot of time on your hands to disseminate your anti-Israel views. Are you simply out of work at the moment or is this your real work?"
The point that concerned here is trying to make is that I am a nazi because I am against the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territory dictated by the Oslo Accords. You people will always keep me rolling.
The point is, Concerned, is that we give an enormous amount of aid to Israel every year, Palestinians are killed by American bullets. I am sure you know that. I am sure you know that every nation of the world is against the occupation except the US and Israel, but I guess by your idiotic logic they are all nazis right? Desmond Tutu and Ghandi met in and France once and discussed the "Jewish Problem" with Eichman. Give me a break.
This brings me to my main point, now read carefully: If I am against the practices of the French government am I suddenly labled a French person hating Nazi? Put Germany in there, plug Britan, insert China, Japan, Ecudor, Cuba, Saudi Arabia, the Sudan, even the US, whatever country in the world, I can criticize the practices of their government without having to worry about being called anti-Malaysian, anti-Australian, anti-Russian, anti-Hispanic, anti-African, whatever, except one. We all know what that is, cause according to you to be against some practices of the Israeli government I must be part of the third Reich. In Orwell's 1984 the government tries to eliminate certain words and phrases in the new language called newspeak to seditious statements impossible. One of way of doing this is people who speak against this particular government will be branded with the most notorious of tags in teh 20th century: nazism.
A couple other things, free speech in Israel, well maybe if you are Israeli, but there are plenty of political prisoners in Israel dear. In terms of the other Arab countries well, first I am not talking about them and do not see why I have to, but why Israel is special. They have gotten more aid in the past half a centruy than all of the other countries in teh middle east combined and taken to the tenth power. At one time 4 out of every five dollars of US foreign aid went to them. So let's just say I expect more out of them for it, I think thats pretty just. We do not have not ever given that to any other country in the middle east. If we did, I am sure they would have a nice education system, economy, tourist trade, etc. Bring it back to economics, a person in the south bronx has more of a reason to be violent in my mind than someone living in beverly Hills for a variety of reasons. Anyway, yes unfortunately I have to go, Concerned it has been fun, but yes I do work, and I could do this really funny thing which enables me to write things really fast and save time: type. hopefully that answers your question.
The point that concerned here is trying to make is that I am a nazi because I am against the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territory dictated by the Oslo Accords. You people will always keep me rolling.
The point is, Concerned, is that we give an enormous amount of aid to Israel every year, Palestinians are killed by American bullets. I am sure you know that. I am sure you know that every nation of the world is against the occupation except the US and Israel, but I guess by your idiotic logic they are all nazis right? Desmond Tutu and Ghandi met in and France once and discussed the "Jewish Problem" with Eichman. Give me a break.
This brings me to my main point, now read carefully: If I am against the practices of the French government am I suddenly labled a French person hating Nazi? Put Germany in there, plug Britan, insert China, Japan, Ecudor, Cuba, Saudi Arabia, the Sudan, even the US, whatever country in the world, I can criticize the practices of their government without having to worry about being called anti-Malaysian, anti-Australian, anti-Russian, anti-Hispanic, anti-African, whatever, except one. We all know what that is, cause according to you to be against some practices of the Israeli government I must be part of the third Reich. In Orwell's 1984 the government tries to eliminate certain words and phrases in the new language called newspeak to seditious statements impossible. One of way of doing this is people who speak against this particular government will be branded with the most notorious of tags in teh 20th century: nazism.
A couple other things, free speech in Israel, well maybe if you are Israeli, but there are plenty of political prisoners in Israel dear. In terms of the other Arab countries well, first I am not talking about them and do not see why I have to, but why Israel is special. They have gotten more aid in the past half a centruy than all of the other countries in teh middle east combined and taken to the tenth power. At one time 4 out of every five dollars of US foreign aid went to them. So let's just say I expect more out of them for it, I think thats pretty just. We do not have not ever given that to any other country in the middle east. If we did, I am sure they would have a nice education system, economy, tourist trade, etc. Bring it back to economics, a person in the south bronx has more of a reason to be violent in my mind than someone living in beverly Hills for a variety of reasons. Anyway, yes unfortunately I have to go, Concerned it has been fun, but yes I do work, and I could do this really funny thing which enables me to write things really fast and save time: type. hopefully that answers your question.
A previous post mentioned that Israel keeps Palestinians under curfew which is different then other MIddle Eastern countries. Wrong! 53% of the population of Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and Afghanistan are under 24 hour curfew. In more conservative areas of Syria, Jordan,
Egypt, Iran, and Iraq this is true also. A woman is first owner by her father (if her father dies before she is married her brothers become her owners), then her husband, then if she becomes a widow, her sons. Also, if she becomes a widow while her children are still young her father-law then becomes the owner of her children, and will take them away from her. I saw this happen in Egypt when a young woman's husband died in the hospital and while still grieving over that her husbands family took away her three young children against her wishes. She knew she had no legal recourse and broke down screaming she wanted to die. And if this 53% of the population rose against their oppressors you can bet your ass their movement would
quickly be brought down through brutally violent supression.
Even when they are not fighting back they are still killed in the tens of thousands (throughout the whole middle east combined) for perceived minor transgressions. Many more are disfigured (through cutting and being set on fire for being considered a burden.
As a gay man of Saudi decent I would prefer to live as a second class citizen in Israel when I could be "out" (I'm sure you heard about their gay pride parade and fabulous discos) then go backhome where if I acted on my true nature I would be
killed. Perhaps half dozen people, at most, in my country would think that punishment was too severe.
Egypt, Iran, and Iraq this is true also. A woman is first owner by her father (if her father dies before she is married her brothers become her owners), then her husband, then if she becomes a widow, her sons. Also, if she becomes a widow while her children are still young her father-law then becomes the owner of her children, and will take them away from her. I saw this happen in Egypt when a young woman's husband died in the hospital and while still grieving over that her husbands family took away her three young children against her wishes. She knew she had no legal recourse and broke down screaming she wanted to die. And if this 53% of the population rose against their oppressors you can bet your ass their movement would
quickly be brought down through brutally violent supression.
Even when they are not fighting back they are still killed in the tens of thousands (throughout the whole middle east combined) for perceived minor transgressions. Many more are disfigured (through cutting and being set on fire for being considered a burden.
As a gay man of Saudi decent I would prefer to live as a second class citizen in Israel when I could be "out" (I'm sure you heard about their gay pride parade and fabulous discos) then go backhome where if I acted on my true nature I would be
killed. Perhaps half dozen people, at most, in my country would think that punishment was too severe.
A previous post mentioned that Israel keeps Palestinians under curfew which is different then other MIddle Eastern countries. Wrong! 53% of the population of Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and Afghanistan are under 24 hour curfew. In more conservative areas of Syria, Jordan,
Egypt, Iran, and Iraq this is true also. A woman is first owner by her father (if her father dies before she is married her brothers become her owners), then her husband, then if she becomes a widow, her sons. Also, if she becomes a widow while her children are still young her father-law then becomes the owner of her children, and will take them away from her. I saw this happen in Egypt when a young woman's husband died in the hospital and while still grieving over that her husbands family took away her three young children against her wishes. She knew she had no legal recourse and broke down screaming she wanted to die. And if this 53% of the population rose against their oppressors you can bet your ass their movement would
quickly be brought down through brutally violent supression.
Even when they are not fighting back they are still killed in the tens of thousands (throughout the whole middle east combined) for perceived minor transgressions. Many more are disfigured (through cutting and being set on fire for being considered a burden.
As a gay man of Saudi decent I would prefer to live as a second class citizen in Israel when I could be "out" (I'm sure you heard about their gay pride parade and fabulous discos) then go backhome where if I acted on my true nature I would be
killed. Perhaps half dozen people, at most, in my country would think that punishment was too severe.
Egypt, Iran, and Iraq this is true also. A woman is first owner by her father (if her father dies before she is married her brothers become her owners), then her husband, then if she becomes a widow, her sons. Also, if she becomes a widow while her children are still young her father-law then becomes the owner of her children, and will take them away from her. I saw this happen in Egypt when a young woman's husband died in the hospital and while still grieving over that her husbands family took away her three young children against her wishes. She knew she had no legal recourse and broke down screaming she wanted to die. And if this 53% of the population rose against their oppressors you can bet your ass their movement would
quickly be brought down through brutally violent supression.
Even when they are not fighting back they are still killed in the tens of thousands (throughout the whole middle east combined) for perceived minor transgressions. Many more are disfigured (through cutting and being set on fire for being considered a burden.
As a gay man of Saudi decent I would prefer to live as a second class citizen in Israel when I could be "out" (I'm sure you heard about their gay pride parade and fabulous discos) then go backhome where if I acted on my true nature I would be
killed. Perhaps half dozen people, at most, in my country would think that punishment was too severe.
A previous post mentioned that Israel keeps Palestinians under curfew which is different then other MIddle Eastern countries. Wrong! 53% of the population of Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and Afghanistan are under 24 hour curfew. In more conservative areas of Syria, Jordan,
Egypt, Iran, and Iraq this is true also. A woman is first owner by her father (if her father dies before she is married her brothers become her owners), then her husband, then if she becomes a widow, her sons. Also, if she becomes a widow while her children are still young her father-law then becomes the owner of her children, and will take them away from her. I saw this happen in Egypt when a young woman's husband died in the hospital and while still grieving over that her husbands family took away her three young children against her wishes. She knew she had no legal recourse and broke down screaming she wanted to die. And if this 53% of the population rose against their oppressors you can bet your ass their movement would
quickly be brought down through brutally violent supression.
Even when they are not fighting back they are still killed in the tens of thousands (throughout the whole middle east combined) for perceived minor transgressions. Many more are disfigured (through cutting and being set on fire for being considered a burden.
As a gay man of Saudi decent I would prefer to live as a second class citizen in Israel when I could be "out" (I'm sure you heard about their gay pride parade and fabulous discos) then go backhome where if I acted on my true nature I would be
killed. Perhaps half dozen people, at most, in my country would think that punishment was too severe.
Egypt, Iran, and Iraq this is true also. A woman is first owner by her father (if her father dies before she is married her brothers become her owners), then her husband, then if she becomes a widow, her sons. Also, if she becomes a widow while her children are still young her father-law then becomes the owner of her children, and will take them away from her. I saw this happen in Egypt when a young woman's husband died in the hospital and while still grieving over that her husbands family took away her three young children against her wishes. She knew she had no legal recourse and broke down screaming she wanted to die. And if this 53% of the population rose against their oppressors you can bet your ass their movement would
quickly be brought down through brutally violent supression.
Even when they are not fighting back they are still killed in the tens of thousands (throughout the whole middle east combined) for perceived minor transgressions. Many more are disfigured (through cutting and being set on fire for being considered a burden.
As a gay man of Saudi decent I would prefer to live as a second class citizen in Israel when I could be "out" (I'm sure you heard about their gay pride parade and fabulous discos) then go backhome where if I acted on my true nature I would be
killed. Perhaps half dozen people, at most, in my country would think that punishment was too severe.
A previous post mentioned that Israel keeps Palestinians under curfew which is different then other MIddle Eastern countries. Wrong! 53% of the population of Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and Afghanistan are under 24 hour curfew. In more conservative areas of Syria, Jordan,
Egypt, Iran, and Iraq this is true also. A woman is first owner by her father (if her father dies before she is married her brothers become her owners), then her husband, then if she becomes a widow, her sons. Also, if she becomes a widow while her children are still young her father-law then becomes the owner of her children, and will take them away from her. I saw this happen in Egypt when a young woman's husband died in the hospital and while still grieving over that her husbands family took away her three young children against her wishes. She knew she had no legal recourse and broke down screaming she wanted to die. And if this 53% of the population rose against their oppressors you can bet your ass their movement would
quickly be brought down through brutally violent supression.
Even when they are not fighting back they are still killed in the tens of thousands (throughout the whole middle east combined) for perceived minor transgressions. Many more are disfigured (through cutting and being set on fire for being considered a burden.
As a gay man of Saudi decent I would prefer to live as a second class citizen in Israel when I could be "out" (I'm sure you heard about their gay pride parade and fabulous discos) then go backhome where if I acted on my true nature I would be
killed. Perhaps half dozen people, at most, in my country would think that punishment was too severe.
Egypt, Iran, and Iraq this is true also. A woman is first owner by her father (if her father dies before she is married her brothers become her owners), then her husband, then if she becomes a widow, her sons. Also, if she becomes a widow while her children are still young her father-law then becomes the owner of her children, and will take them away from her. I saw this happen in Egypt when a young woman's husband died in the hospital and while still grieving over that her husbands family took away her three young children against her wishes. She knew she had no legal recourse and broke down screaming she wanted to die. And if this 53% of the population rose against their oppressors you can bet your ass their movement would
quickly be brought down through brutally violent supression.
Even when they are not fighting back they are still killed in the tens of thousands (throughout the whole middle east combined) for perceived minor transgressions. Many more are disfigured (through cutting and being set on fire for being considered a burden.
As a gay man of Saudi decent I would prefer to live as a second class citizen in Israel when I could be "out" (I'm sure you heard about their gay pride parade and fabulous discos) then go backhome where if I acted on my true nature I would be
killed. Perhaps half dozen people, at most, in my country would think that punishment was too severe.
Until the Jews outside of Israel demand change there will be no change. Until the United States stops financing Israel there will be no change. A boycott is good but it will never see the overthrow of an Israel that keeps expanding its borders while all the time claiming opposition is anti-Semitic. I have boycotted Israeli good for decades. But it is a token. The whole basis of Israel is ridiculous. How can a land be yours just because God chose to give it to you. I think God chose to give me Buckingham Palace. All those who agree can fight with me to get it and live with me there because I know I have been chosen by God and deserve better. First I need a precedent for this in law or even custom. If you know of anything I could do to support this claim and get weapons and economic aid please write your response.
Forget it. Let's just say Tough Shit.
That's what you said to us during the Holocaust. Six million Jews died. No country in the world, not even the United States, would grant refuge to Jews facing death and murder by the millions.
Now you want to take away the one country in the world that will always stand up for the rights of Jews. So you can have a second Holocaust and start the whole thing over again. After all, that was the goal of the Arabs (who betrayed the Palestinians far more than the Israelis ever could) when they tried to destroy Israel in 1948. And 1967.
And you're angry that we actually defend ourselves from Jew haters, now that we finally have a tiny bit of a country, in our ancestral homelands no less, after you made us so welcome in your diaspora with crusades, inquistions, and Holocausts?
Screw you.
That's what you said to us during the Holocaust. Six million Jews died. No country in the world, not even the United States, would grant refuge to Jews facing death and murder by the millions.
Now you want to take away the one country in the world that will always stand up for the rights of Jews. So you can have a second Holocaust and start the whole thing over again. After all, that was the goal of the Arabs (who betrayed the Palestinians far more than the Israelis ever could) when they tried to destroy Israel in 1948. And 1967.
And you're angry that we actually defend ourselves from Jew haters, now that we finally have a tiny bit of a country, in our ancestral homelands no less, after you made us so welcome in your diaspora with crusades, inquistions, and Holocausts?
Screw you.
Thanks for showing your true colors, Janet.
There will be peace when the Palestinians love their children more than they hate the Jews.
The same can be said of you.
A racist like you deserves no consideration.
There will be peace when the Palestinians love their children more than they hate the Jews.
The same can be said of you.
A racist like you deserves no consideration.
"There will be peace when the Palestinians love their children more than they hate the Jews."
Its always funny to see how people can pretend to be for peace and still get away with condemning their enemies in the same sentence.
Both Israel and Palestine send their young off to kill each other when both are at most pawns in a global US geopolitical game. Over a thousand Palestinians have been murdered in the last few years by the Israelis. Several hundred Israelis have been murdered in the last few years by Palestinians. Are things any better off? Most Israelis and Palestinians want two states. Small numbers of extremists on both sides somehow can keep this from ever happening; can Israelis and Palestinians be stupid enough to fall for each others traps every time? Why did the US make it worse by backing Sharon? Why do others make it worse by backing Hamas?
In a few months, hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis may die when the strongest country in the world gangs up on a nation that has already fallen apart. Each night of major bombing raids, US jets will kill more people than have died on both sides in both intifadas. Why? Perhaps oil? Perhaps an election ploy by Bush to overcome a weak economy and all the media talk about ties to crooked business leaders? In a single night all the horrors of the intifada, all the horrors of 9/11, all the horror that billions of defense dollars can buy, will hit a people who have no say in their own government.
The Intifada is a war for independence (with relatively smaller numbers of deaths on each side), Iraq will be a massacre. Can the world tell the difference or is it always a matter of using these events to gain something for our own cause? In times of peace its hard for people to understand crimes against humanity, but In times of war, talk of humanity is laughed at.
Its always funny to see how people can pretend to be for peace and still get away with condemning their enemies in the same sentence.
Both Israel and Palestine send their young off to kill each other when both are at most pawns in a global US geopolitical game. Over a thousand Palestinians have been murdered in the last few years by the Israelis. Several hundred Israelis have been murdered in the last few years by Palestinians. Are things any better off? Most Israelis and Palestinians want two states. Small numbers of extremists on both sides somehow can keep this from ever happening; can Israelis and Palestinians be stupid enough to fall for each others traps every time? Why did the US make it worse by backing Sharon? Why do others make it worse by backing Hamas?
In a few months, hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis may die when the strongest country in the world gangs up on a nation that has already fallen apart. Each night of major bombing raids, US jets will kill more people than have died on both sides in both intifadas. Why? Perhaps oil? Perhaps an election ploy by Bush to overcome a weak economy and all the media talk about ties to crooked business leaders? In a single night all the horrors of the intifada, all the horrors of 9/11, all the horror that billions of defense dollars can buy, will hit a people who have no say in their own government.
The Intifada is a war for independence (with relatively smaller numbers of deaths on each side), Iraq will be a massacre. Can the world tell the difference or is it always a matter of using these events to gain something for our own cause? In times of peace its hard for people to understand crimes against humanity, but In times of war, talk of humanity is laughed at.
Well, yes, you are right. The players in the Middle East are most definitely pawns. The Arab nations could have ended the Palestinian plight at any time. They have perpetuated it for 54 years simply out of hatred for Israel.
The intifada is a farce. It's stupid, it killed hundreds, it injured even more, and it is FOR NOTHING. A state was offered by Barak and Clinton. Arafat refused it. This is not the first time Arafat has prevented a state being given to the Palestinians. Nor is it the first time he personally ensured the occupation. It may not even be the last.
Palestinian supporters find they have no choice but to support Arafat's idiotic decision. They make up stories about how the offer was 'illegitimate.' It doesn't matter. In 2000 Israel made it's largest offer yet to the Palestinians. And rather than negotiating, or counter-negotiating, they responded with violence.
Did the violence improve their position? Oh, quite the contrary. It's been ruining their lives. Still, I imagine that some day it will stop, the two states will be made... and we'll just wonder why we didn't do it earlier.
The intifada is a farce. It's stupid, it killed hundreds, it injured even more, and it is FOR NOTHING. A state was offered by Barak and Clinton. Arafat refused it. This is not the first time Arafat has prevented a state being given to the Palestinians. Nor is it the first time he personally ensured the occupation. It may not even be the last.
Palestinian supporters find they have no choice but to support Arafat's idiotic decision. They make up stories about how the offer was 'illegitimate.' It doesn't matter. In 2000 Israel made it's largest offer yet to the Palestinians. And rather than negotiating, or counter-negotiating, they responded with violence.
Did the violence improve their position? Oh, quite the contrary. It's been ruining their lives. Still, I imagine that some day it will stop, the two states will be made... and we'll just wonder why we didn't do it earlier.
Miss Rose,after WW2 the U.N. convened as a body in San Francisco,Calif. with the hope that now we 'd have a body of countries to deal with atrocities everywhere. When the horrors of the concentration camps came to light the world was and is shocked at the cruelty to the Jewish people. Because the world had tuirned a deaf ear (even before the war in Europe) to the crys of Jewish leaders to help the victims. The U.N. with shame at world's indifference 'Declared" Isreal" the Jewishes Homeland!!! Of course the the Jeews Isreal will always be their homeland regardless as to what the world thinks. GOD made Isreal their homre. Remember Isreal's both wars? Who attacked who? Who won both wars and ready to go further west? So the left bank is a thorn on the Palestiniens side. Who is sending all those terrorrist attacks against innocent people? Does the world and liberals like you think that is murder? No all of you condemn Isreal because she retaliates. What makes you think that those terrorist will ever be content to have their own country,no they will want more and more!! Admit it, if you can,they want to destroy Isreal and all it's people. Their hatred is centuries old and they will never change. They have transfered that hatred to anything that's American, how sad that when things are hard whoo do they hold out their hand? The U.S.A.! Yet they all emulate us in everything. they do. Figure that one out. They come to the hated United States for their education and return to their perspective homelands and spout nothing but hatred In my lifetime I'll never understand that culture. Does anyone think that Iraq wil be able to handle democracy? No!! Their surrounding won't allow it. And our precious
innocent idealistic young men have sacrificed their lives to free the Iraqi people and for what? They are already chanting "Yankee go Home" How can all those Arabs cheer for the butcher Saddam? If he had his way he would have destroyed Iran,(the rest of the Kurds) Syria,Kuwait,Jordon ,Arabia ,Lebenon,Egypt.Libya and last but first Isreal. The Jewish people will never loose so all that hatred will turn on all the Arab countries and there will be havoc to be paid and "They" willbe destroyed. T-conway@webtv..net
innocent idealistic young men have sacrificed their lives to free the Iraqi people and for what? They are already chanting "Yankee go Home" How can all those Arabs cheer for the butcher Saddam? If he had his way he would have destroyed Iran,(the rest of the Kurds) Syria,Kuwait,Jordon ,Arabia ,Lebenon,Egypt.Libya and last but first Isreal. The Jewish people will never loose so all that hatred will turn on all the Arab countries and there will be havoc to be paid and "They" willbe destroyed. T-conway@webtv..net
"Hmm" has given us some excellent insight into the Middle East nightmare.
Sadly, the bombs have been dropped, the infrastructure of a soverign nation destroyed, and humanity? Unless you got your news from other than the US mainstream media, you did not see the horrors of death and destruction.
On 19 April the people of Iraq are still without water, medical supplies, electricity.
Some freedom, is it not?
Sadly, the bombs have been dropped, the infrastructure of a soverign nation destroyed, and humanity? Unless you got your news from other than the US mainstream media, you did not see the horrors of death and destruction.
On 19 April the people of Iraq are still without water, medical supplies, electricity.
Some freedom, is it not?
I suppose they cheer for Saddam for the same reason they cheer for the real butcher of the Middle East. Ariel Sharon; (search this name see for yourself).
And GWBush announced to the world at large last year that this war criminal was "a man of peace". We are still laughing at the idea of anyone using "peace and Sharon" in the same sentence.
And GWBush announced to the world at large last year that this war criminal was "a man of peace". We are still laughing at the idea of anyone using "peace and Sharon" in the same sentence.
About the Palestinians:
"So what exactly are they citizens of? They havn't moved anywhere recently so surely they should either have their own state to be citizens of "
This is an important part of History. The Palestinians have never been citizens. The same wat that prior to 1920 the Jordenian and Iraqis and Syrian have never been citizens. There were no states in the Middle East that one could be a citizen of.
Then came the British and the French and established Jordan and Syria (BTW, most but not all Palestinisn came from these too countries) and they also established Israel.
Jordan was the homeland of the Bedouin
Syria a homeland of the mostly muslims who lived in the area and Israel the homeland of the Jewish people .
Got that: People not religion, no race but homeland of those who belong to a specific nation.
Like there is the Lakota nation, the Cherokee nation there is the Jewish/ Hebrew nation.
Do jews desrve to have a homeland or only Arabs can have this right ?
"So what exactly are they citizens of? They havn't moved anywhere recently so surely they should either have their own state to be citizens of "
This is an important part of History. The Palestinians have never been citizens. The same wat that prior to 1920 the Jordenian and Iraqis and Syrian have never been citizens. There were no states in the Middle East that one could be a citizen of.
Then came the British and the French and established Jordan and Syria (BTW, most but not all Palestinisn came from these too countries) and they also established Israel.
Jordan was the homeland of the Bedouin
Syria a homeland of the mostly muslims who lived in the area and Israel the homeland of the Jewish people .
Got that: People not religion, no race but homeland of those who belong to a specific nation.
Like there is the Lakota nation, the Cherokee nation there is the Jewish/ Hebrew nation.
Do jews desrve to have a homeland or only Arabs can have this right ?
See the way it's apparently suppossed to work is that arabs can be terrorists, extremists, teach their children that jews must die, proclaim that israel has no right to exist and that jews have no right to land ownership or their own state, and act like total crazed loons, but as long as they then go in front of tv cameras and say "all we want is independence and fairness" then ignorant fools around the world will take their side and demand that israel stop fighting. That's what the world likes. And they're upset that jews in israel are defending themselves. THe vast majority of first-world countries on earth, if in israel's position and having to deal with lunatics next door trying to get rid of them, would have been infinitely less restrained than israel has been. Look at how Jordan handled the palestinians in "black september" in the early 1970's; when palestinians were terrorizing Jordan and trying to take it over, King Hussein said "ENOUGH!" and killed about 4000 palestinians in one month and smacked their asses away from his land. Israel is probably stupid for letting this drag on so long without doing something similar.
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