Who caused 9/11?

Allen plays one of the oldest games in the book, blame the Jews.

<<This would all be mere speculation if it weren’t for all the lingering questions behind the events of WTC, and some suspicious arm-twisting on the part of a rapid and narrow-sighted Jewish-American lobby, not to mention curious behavior on the part of Israeli’s in the USA.>>

How original...

He's also not very smart:

<<Why would this rag-tag Al-Queda group make one grand attack and then essentially DISAPPEAR from the face of the earth?>>

They aren't "rag tag." They are extremely well-funded. Their money doesn't only come from Bin Laden, there is a lot of money coming from Saudi Arabia and other Gulf Nations.

They also haven't disappeared. If you read the papers you'd know that Al Queda cells have been disrupted all over the world (Yemen, Indonesia, Spain, Germany, etc.).

<<I mean, how stupid could they be? So that was all they could muster? How foolish to beg for their own total destruction with such a low gain for their cause.>>

It was the worst attack on US soil since Pearl Harbor. You might consider it minor but the people who lost loved ones do not.

<<But if the Israeli’s had a hand in it, well, nothing could have served their military purposes better. Since the WTC incident, Sharon has been graced with ever-increasing military, economic, and moral support from the USA.>>

If anything, Israel has come under increasing scrutiny since 9-11. Not from the US (of course) but the world. It has hardly served Israel's interests. In a narrow military sense perhaps but the economy is hurting. Businesses rely on the exploitation of Palestinian labor just like US corps. rely on Mexican labor.

As far as supporting their cause, what good does terrorism ever do? You act as though the terrorists are rational politcal actors.

What good did the assasinations at the Munich Olympics do? Did people rally around the Palestinian cause after that incident?

What good did the bombing of the US Marine Barracks in Lebanon do? Did it help the situation in Lebanon?

Al Queda has been responsible for numerous terrorist acts. What good did the bombing of the Cole do? What good did the bombing of our barracks in Africa do?

In all the above cases, the political benefits are negligible. But they do show potential terrorists that Al Queda means businesss. They aren't just talking, they are doing. That can be very influential to someone considering joining this type of organization. It's a recruitment tool. Same thing with the mom's that go on tv and say how proud they are that their son killed himself for Allah.

NYC: "Allen plays one of the oldest games in the book, blame the Jews. "

If "blaming the Jews" is the oldest game, then crying "anti-semite" is the second oldest. I am not against Jews, I respect and admire the tremendous perseverence and clear strength of Jewish culture. What I am criticizing is blinding accepting the accusation that "the muslims did it" when there are in fact reasons to believe there is involvement by Israelis. Simple, nothing to do "with Jews." I can't help you if you are not bright enough to see the difference.

NYC: "<<This would all be mere speculation if it weren’t for all the lingering questions behind the events of WTC, and some suspicious arm-twisting on the part of a rapid and narrow-sighted Jewish-American lobby, not to mention curious behavior on the part of Israeli’s in the USA.>>
How original...
He's also not very smart: "

Great critique, nyc! Well, if you don't believe that the Jewish-American lobby (which is NOT to say Jewish-Americans) is strongly influencing government, how on earth do you explain the lop-sided and grotesquely pro-Israel legislation that passed the House? I mean, this resolution all but stated that the USA is Israel's puppet!

Clearly the Lobby is complicated, and though it does not seem to me to represent the majority of American Jews, it has the most power to influence policy, and even the most power to color how other Americans view Jewish Americans.


nyc "<<Why would this rag-tag Al-Queda group make one grand attack and then essentially DISAPPEAR from the face of the earth?>>
They aren't "rag tag." They are extremely well-funded. Their money doesn't only come from Bin Laden, there is a lot of money coming from Saudi Arabia and other Gulf Nations.
They also haven't disappeared. If you read the papers you'd know that Al Queda cells have been disrupted all over the world (Yemen, Indonesia, Spain, Germany, etc.)."

What I mean by "disappear" is just what you have said, they are arrested, and their ability to fight is all but evaporated.

nyc: "<<I mean how stupid could they be? So that was all they could muster? How foolish to beg for their own total destruction with such a low gain for their cause.>>
It was the worst attack on US soil since Pearl Harbor. You might consider it minor but the people who lost loved ones do not. "

Clearly the attack was significant in terms of US history. The losses for those whose families have sufferred cannot be repaired. But for the aim of the radical muslims, the destruction of the USA, this was completely pathetic, and has resulted in far more devastating attacks upon their movement.

nyc: "<<But if the Israeli’s had a hand in it, well, nothing could have served their military purposes better. Since the WTC incident, Sharon has been graced with ever-increasing military, economic, and moral support from the USA.>>
If anything, Israel has come under increasing scrutiny since 9-11. Not from the US (of course) but the world. It has hardly served Israel's interests. In a narrow military sense perhaps but the economy is hurting. Businesses rely on the exploitation of Palestinian labor just like US corps. rely on Mexican labor. "

The Israelis have adapted to their changing labor market by importing asian workers (according to a story in the Haretz a few weeks ago) although their economy is still considerably weakened. I agree that it is questionable whether the Nation of Israel has benefitted, but the military has greater support to act with violence. Violent action is the preferred path of the majority coalition in the Knesset, and will probably remain so after Sharon. Even Sharon boasted that he has been able to make violent and oppressive military actions seem commonplace, that the world accepts IDF actions that they never would have a few years ago.


nyc: "As far as supporting their cause, what good does terrorism ever do? You act as though the terrorists are rational politcal actors. "

For one thing, I am questioning who comitted these actions. And yes, I think that there are reasons to believe there are some "rational political actors" involved.


nyc: "What good did the assasinations at the Munich Olympics do? Did people rally around the Palestinian cause after that incident?
What good did the bombing of the US Marine Barracks in Lebanon do? Did it help the situation in Lebanon?
Al Queda has been responsible for numerous terrorist acts. What good did the bombing of the Cole do? What good did the bombing of our barracks in Africa do?
In all the above cases, the political benefits are negligible. But they do show potential terrorists that Al Queda means businesss. They aren't just talking, they are doing. That can be very influential to someone considering joining this type of organization. It's a recruitment tool. Same thing with the mom's that go on tv and say how proud they are that their son killed himself for Allah."

You are muddling the actions of the Al-Queda with the actions of Palestinians. Just because they share some similar religious views, and at times may even offer material support, these are peoples in vitally different situations.

The Al-Queda is an offensive force. They aim to over-throw the Western Powers, including Israel. Al-Queda has focused on Military and political targets, which is one reason the WTC does not fit their MO.

The Palestinians, at their most radical fringes want to overthrow Israel, and some may want the destruction of the USA. For the most though, a normal life on land of their own is their goal. These are people now on the verge of starvation, certainly devastated, and I believe want some sort of sustainable peace.

But I know Israel has reason to fear its neighbors. I am not in favor of a toothless Israel. What I oppose is if a person is an American, that he and she consider first and foremost America's interests. These interests include liberty--for our citizens, not for the whole world.

No,the World Trade Center did fit the MO. It was targeted before in 1993 possibly by Iraq and Al-Qiada.To Islamic extermist's tall buildings are considerd blasphemy, like the tower of babel. They also destoyed the ancient budas in Afganistan to. Also targeted are the pyramids of egypt,the sphinx and other ancient "pagon" relics.
Terrorists are insane,they don't have to make seanse.
And for Afaganistan being occupied,Osama Bin Laden belived that the U.S. would be draged into a war like what happond to the soviets,that was another reason for 911.

and as you may recall from the court transcripts, the guy who provided the explosives was a US government agent.

Ronnie: "No,the World Trade Center did fit the MO. It was targeted before in 1993 possibly by Iraq and Al-Qiada.To Islamic extermist's tall buildings are considerd blasphemy, like the tower of babel. They also destoyed the ancient budas in Afganistan to. Also targeted are the pyramids of egypt,the sphinx and other ancient "pagon" relics. "

These are good points. But you must admit, considering the threat to these extremists, targeting the WTC was strategically foolish.

Ronnie: "Terrorists are insane,they don't have to make seanse. "

Terrorists can be anyone. In Nicaruagua the USA Special Forces were terrorists. They were not acting wildly and recklessly for no reason...they had a strategy. Terrorism is a tactic--the wanton devastation and demoralization of people and/or a nation. These could be random idiots, or extremely well-trained, funded, and strategic ideologues. So while "they don't have to make sense" most such acts do mean to advance a goal.

Ronnie: "And for Afaganistan being occupied,Osama Bin Laden belived that the U.S. would be draged into a war like what happond to the soviets,that was another reason for 911. "

This might be so, but I fail to see real evidence that this was the "purpose" of the attacks. Did Osama learn nothing from the butt-kicking the USA gave to Saddam? Did he fail to see how devastating USA was to Milosevic?

If these people are as stupid as you indicate, well, we sure as hell don't need a new "Homeland Defense Department" and sell off all our "liberties," and live in constant fear.

But I do not think these are morons. How could they have built up such a network, so many resources, and gained footholds in countries around the world?

I suspect that at some point this group would be truely a force to reckon with, but, as it is, they certainly are less of a challenge than was Vietnam, Korea, or the World Wars. To think that we should now give up our rights to be free from government duress and spying, simply to kill a few nutballs is really insane. Frankly, the Al-Queda are hardly newsworthy. USA's special forces ought to be able to "neutralize" them "off-the-radar," just as they built them up and trained them to fight the Soviets.

The Ecclesiastic Commonwealth Community. What a wonderful place to find accurate information and objective analysis of the issues that matter the most to you and me. Ah Yes, Nessie, glad to see you are still without a life and still citing the most random, wholly unaccountable and laughably random internet sites as ‘proof’ of the grand master plan. I believe now Nessie, I truly believe. Keep it up, you’re as funny as you are stupid and that’s pretty funny.

It's proof that "leftists" are not the only people who doubt the official story. See also:

http://www.indybay.org/news/2002/04/122904.php

Ah yes you are exactly right. People with low-IQ's demonstrate thier stupidity regardless of their political proclivities.

An ad hominem is not a rebuttal.