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Spinning 9-11
by Carol Brouillet (cbrouillet [at] igc.org)
Thursday May 16th, 2002 11:16 PM
While the mainstream is finally beginning to ask questions of Bush's foreknowledge of 9-11, it neglects the larger issues and will undoubtedly try to manage or control "the scandal." Here are more questions and information that we need to get out to the public
These are some of the questions that we, the people, demanded to be raised and answered publicly last January when we marched on Senator Feinstein's officer-

  • Who created, trained and funded the Al Qaeda Network?
    What is the relationship between Bin Laden, his family and the Bush family and the Carlyle Group?
    Why were no fighter planes dispatched to intercept the four hijacked planes on September 11h , in violation of standard procedures?
    Who actually was in control of the "hijacked planes"?
    What is the U.S. relationship with Pakistan, and especially with its intelligence service, the ISI?
    Why did the then director of the ISI have $100,000 transferred to the man whom the FBI now calls the ringleader of the Sept. 11th attacks, and why does the U.S. not pursue this question?
    Did the CIA have foreknowledge of the attack, who tried to profit with put options on American, United, Merrill Lynch… stock just before the attack?
    Why were the FBI told to not investigate the Bin Laden family links in the US?
    If the CIA met with Bin Laden last July, why didn't they try to arrest him?
    If the US is serious about ridding the world of terrorism, why do we continue to fund and train terrorists?
    Why are we bombing Afghanistan, when none of the alleged bombers actually came from there, could there be another reason for our presence in that region, like oil?
    Is the war against Afghanistan illegal?
    What are Bush's, Cheney's and Rice's connections to the oil industry?
    What are Bush's and Cheney's connections to the drug industry?
    Why is the evidence being destroyed when an investigation of the World Trade Center collapse is needed?
    Why seal Presidential records? Why intimidate professors from speaking out against this war?
    Why has the U.S. military been establishing working relations with the Uzbek military for several years?
    What other military involvement does the U.S. have in the Central Asian Republics?
    Why are U.S. military personnel or material assistance going to the Philippines, Indonesia, and Colombia as well?
    What relationship did various U.S. agencies and their contractors have with the Taliban, either directly or through Pakistani or Saudi agencies or contractors?
    Why does the U.S. overlook Pakistani drug lords who refine and export half to two-thirds of the world's heroin despite its avowed determination to rid the world of drugs?
    Why has the Dept. of Justice stopped its investigation of the Bank of Credit and Commerce International despite its admitted heavy involvement in laundering drug money?

    (Links to some of these questions and answers are posted at-http//www.communitycurrency.org/9-11.html)

The online petition demanding a larger inquiry now has over 12,000 signatures. (Add a link to it from your website- let's get millions to get our voices heard loud and clear!!! http://www.petitiononline.com/11601TFS/petition.html
If you have trouble communicating this information to others, like Chomsky, Solomon and Parenti, there is an excellent Primer on understanding conspiracies which is useful to read and share with others.


The group who began the Petition to the Senate to Investigate the Oddities Involving 9/11 Terrorist Attacks has two websites http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFalloutShelter and http://falloutshelternews.com/. Another website which has seriously looked into this is- Ground Zero Forum at http://forums.delphiforums.com/ground_zero2001/ I’ve been receiving the daily Digest from the Fallout Shelter which has a mixture of links to key articles and comments. Another activist oriented 9-11 website is http://www.ourDNA.org

       & Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi is the leading Democrat on the joint Senate House Intelligence Committee which is supposed to oversee CIA activities and investigate 9-11. We need to educate her, and her staff.

         Mike Ruppert spoke on February 21, 2002 in San Francisco. His presentation powerfully obliterated any shadow of a doubt that I held of the Bush/CIA complicity in 9-11. Mike is Publisher/Editor of From the Wilderness, a newsletter read by more than 2,200 subscribers in 27 countries including 20 members of the US Congress, professors at 12 universities, many authors and journalists. Through the newsletter and his website at http://www.copvcia.com,

Inspired by Mike, I created a banner that says-

Allowing Ex-CIA Snider
to investigate 9-11
is like allowing Ex-CEO Lay
to investigate
ENRON

the other side says-

REAL TERRORISTS-
Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld...
GUILTY of 9-11
you ask-
"Why?"
Oil, Drugs, Power...
"How?" www.tenc.net

When Bush visited San Jose and Santa Clara recently, we carried the banner to both events (Snider resigned his position the day before- just to make my banner partially obsolete, no doubt!)

I'm glad that the mainstream press has finally raised a few questions, but I think it is an exercise in damage control- they are still not asking the BIG questions!!!

May 15, 2002, I received a copy of the footage broadcast by NBC on September 11, 2001 along with a 21 page pamphlet entitled "NBC Spins 911" by George Trinkaus. The pamphlet powerfully indicts the media for "covering up the inconvenient evidence that it inadvertantly revealed that day and weaving the official truth by "totalitrian force." "Media critics commonly talk about "bias" or "distortion," but what we are dealing with here is proactive propaganda. NBC is spinning 911 out of whole cloth. Rigorous censorship is, of course, essential."

I've been so busy demonstrating and organizing that I haven't had time to write explicitely on 9-11 and all the information that has come my way.

One of the key pieces is a brief video image of a huge plume of smoke rising from another building, before the collapse of either of the World Trade Center Towers see http://www.lebensaspekte.de/ go to 911-BEGINNERS to Media Section and Building 7- the mysterious explosion. Clearly there was a major explosion in another building- not caused by either plane.

This information fits in with one excerpt from Trinkaus's pamphlet-

"At 11:56 AM Dawson is reporting on an interview he had conducted "just moments ago" with Albert Perry, Chief of Fire Safety for the Fire Department of New York City.
Dawson: "Perry told me that shortly after nine o'clock he had ten alarms, roughly 200 men, in the building trying to effect a rescue of the civilians who were in there. And basically, he received word of some kind of secondary device, that is, another bomb going off.
"He tried to get his men out quickly as he could, but he said there was an explosion that took place. And an hour after that first hit, the first crash [that] took place, there was another explosion in one of the towers here.
"According to his theory, he thinks there were actually devices that were planted in the building.
"One may have been in the plane. A second device, he speculates, was probably planted in the building.
"So that's what we've been told by Albert Perry, who is chief of Safety for the New York City Fire Department, just moments ago," reports Dawson.
Dawson goes on, "Now we are continuing to hear explosions here downtown."
Dawson reports that "the whole area is cordoned off and that rescue workers are waiting to get in."
"But the bottom line," Dawson concludes, "is that he, Albert Perry, said that he probably lost a great many men in those secondary explosions, and he said that there were literally hundreds, if not thousands, of people in those towers when the explosions took place."...[To get the pamphlet donate money, write, contact High Voltage Press (Counter-Propaganda), P.O. Box 1525, Portland, OR 97207, USA. toll-free 877-263-1215, teslapress@earthlink.net

As there was not a "lone gunman" who was solely responsible for the death of J.F.K., the planes were not solely responsible for the collapse of not two, but many buildings at the World Trade Center Complex, indicating that more people were involved, as well as a massive cover-up. I don't have a link to the site which has FEMA saying they arrived "the night before the attacks," which is also a damning admission, but I have hesitated to put in links to blatantly right-wing websites.

We are thinking of doing a film on 9-11, and we did videotape the following "Teach-In." I have also got several videos on 9-11 right now- if anyone wants to organize a showing/teach-in or want a speaker on this topic.
Contact me for more details- Carol Brouillet (650) 857-0927 cbrouillet@igc.org.

Questioning 9-11 Teach-In at San Francisco State University
Thursday, April 25th, 2002,

Speakers included Riva Enteen, National Lawyer\'s Guild, on the attack on civil rights, Joyce Lynn, journalist, on the Bush/Bin Laden/Carlyle connections, Carol Brouillet, Women's International League for Peace and Freedom, on "Oil." The Canadian video "The Great Deception" and resource materials, including the excellent which is the best compilation in print of the key articles revealing the Bush Administration/the CIA complicity in 9-11.

Three questions that Mike Ruppert suggests that we bombard the mainstream press with right now are-

What about the warnings from heads of state and other intelligence agencies?

Why were no planes scrambled in a timely manner?

What about the insider trading that happened just prior to 9-11?

Certainly this was "the crime of the century" and we need to ask who profited from the attack? Bush has said three times that- he hit the "trifecta," and must now certainly be scrutinized, impeached for his role in this.

by George Trinkaus
(teslapress [at] aol.com) Friday May 17th, 2002 12:53 PM
The correct e-mail address for George Trinkaus, who wrote "NBC Spins 911," is teslapress [at] aol.com, not earthlink, as was erroneously printed on the booklet.
by m.
Sunday May 19th, 2002 7:40 AM
Even the left press seems to fear asking the most obvious question: negligence or conspiracy?

There is so much evidence of negligence that you have to ask if they chose to ignore warnings for the sake of their war in Afghanistan and the perpetual fear they are now able to use to their advantage.
by me
Sunday May 19th, 2002 8:00 AM
I have only one question:
Who gets to benefit from diverting the attention from the fact that Islamic militants were behind this attack?

Could it be, the Arabs? Palestinians? (actually palestinians WERE behind the previous attack on the WTC).

Could it be that the Arabs are joining forces with extreme left cells in the US in order to topple the strongest opponent for their plan of global Jihad from within?
by not an idiot
Sunday May 19th, 2002 12:20 PM
ingodwetrust.jpg
Here's who benefitted you MORON. Think about it: GOD.....GUNS, OIL, DRUGS......the elite believs in GOD!!!!!!
by Eric
Sunday May 19th, 2002 1:22 PM
Tell us how Bush, himself, benifits from the death of thousands of innocent Americans you nit wit. Enlighten us, oh great forteller of the truth.

Oil? So you think 9-11 is about making money? You're a sick individual. The elite already have plenty, that's why they're the elite, bozo.

Drugs? every argument you make seems to reduce to the same common denominator. Money. The elite are ready control the majority of it. There's only so much gold on the planet!

Guns? What kind of retard thinks guns have anything to do with it. Making money? Again, they have plenty. And they only reason there is a supply of guns, is because there is a demand. Humans are prone to killing each other.

No, 9-11 was about an attack by a culture that hates another culture. It wasn't about money. It was about radical islamic fundamentalism. It was in fact about God. They believe their God want them to kill Americans. Look at history. More people have committed atrocious acts of war, hate and violence in the name of "God" than any single motivator throughout history.

Money, nah. God, sure.

by W
Sunday May 19th, 2002 1:38 PM
bushdefense.jpeg
This whole thing should have been over when Condi said that no one "could have predicted that these people would...use an airplane as a missile." I can't tell how angry I was when nosy journalists immediately shot that argument down by sticking their noses where they don't belong: in the facts! On balance, I was satisfied that no one took us to task for lying to cover up our mistakes.

OK, you've heard Ari's excuses, you've heard Condoleezza's excuses--Now let me get give my own excuse:
I was on vacation!
OK? I was off the clock! Don't you remember? Everyone made a big stink over it: the famous "month-long vacation." In fact, most of the White House staff took the month off too. Do you really expect me to act on every warning of massive terrorist hijacking plots when I'm off? Do you keep working when you're on vacation? So there!

So if you're really committed to depending on ME for your personal safety, then maybe next time I'm on vacation you should just stay home and lock the doors!

http://www.gwbush.com
by Eric
Sunday May 19th, 2002 1:55 PM
Keeping the wheels of Anti-Americanism propaganda well lubed!
by What are you afraid of?
Monday May 20th, 2002 6:24 PM
Keeping the wheels of Fascist American Propaganda turning...

Your arguments against the geostrategic motivations behind this phony War are laughable....

In terms of foreign policy, the War of Terror is about expanding American influence, power, and domination around the planet--particularly as it relates to control of important geopolitical regions such as Central Asia and the Middle East--oil of course is one important stake in all of this.

Domestically, the War of Terror is an excellent excuse to crack down on dissent, build up a phony American
National Unity, and generally dismiss, discredit, and attack any movment which challenges US Capitalism, such as the Anti-Globalization movement. It also conveniently saves the ass of the Bush Regime which prior to 9-11 was experiencing increasing questions about its policies and the fact that it stole the 2000 Election.

You seem to believe that American elites act according to their own PERSONAL BENEFIT, rather than according to the benefit of their Empire in general which ultimately sustains and supports these more specific Personal interests.
by What are you afraid of?
Monday May 20th, 2002 6:24 PM
Keeping the wheels of Fascist American Propaganda turning...

Your arguments against the geostrategic motivations behind this phony War are laughable....

In terms of foreign policy, the War of Terror is about expanding American influence, power, and domination around the planet--particularly as it relates to control of important geopolitical regions such as Central Asia and the Middle East--oil of course is one important stake in all of this.

Domestically, the War of Terror is an excellent excuse to crack down on dissent, build up a phony American
National Unity, and generally dismiss, discredit, and attack any movment which challenges US Capitalism, such as the Anti-Globalization movement. It also conveniently saves the ass of the Bush Regime which prior to 9-11 was experiencing increasing questions about its policies and the fact that it stole the 2000 Election.

You seem to believe that American elites act according to their own PERSONAL BENEFIT, rather than according to the benefit of their Empire in general which ultimately sustains and supports these specific Personal interests.
by What are you afraid of?
Monday May 20th, 2002 6:24 PM
Keeping the wheels of Fascist American Propaganda turning...

Your arguments against the geostrategic motivations behind this phony War are laughable....

In terms of foreign policy, the War of Terror is about expanding American influence, power, and domination around the planet--particularly as it relates to control of important geopolitical regions such as Central Asia and the Middle East--oil of course is one important stake in all of this.

Domestically, the War of Terror is an excellent excuse to crack down on dissent, build up a phony American
National Unity, and generally dismiss, discredit, and attack any movment which challenges US Capitalism, such as the Anti-Globalization movement. It also conveniently saves the ass of the Bush Regime which prior to 9-11 was experiencing increasing questions about its policies and the fact that it stole the 2000 Election.

You seem to believe that American elites act according to their own PERSONAL BENEFIT, rather than according to the benefit of their Empire in general which ultimately sustains and supports these more specific Personal Interests or benefit.
by Eric
Tuesday May 21st, 2002 6:29 AM
That you left wing loonies may be given enough clout and support that some of these Anti-american movements might come to fruition.

>Your arguments against the geostrategic motivations behind this phony War are laughable....

It's laughable that I believe (as do most Americans) we were attacked because radical islamic fundamentalists hate American culture?

But you think we were attacked such that some mysterious group of elites can make more money than they supposedly already have and to extend the power of their mighty hand of control further into the realm of global domination such that we will all one day be mindless slaves to do their bidding. I suppose Dr. Evil is in charge, and you, Austin Powers, are the only one who can stop him?

One word for you: therapy
by Reagan (the godfather of terrorism)
Tuesday May 21st, 2002 3:42 PM
Toasts of President Reagan and President Mohammad Zia-ul-Haq of Pakistan at the State Dinner
December 7, 1982
President Reagan. If I'm late getting up here, I just had to finish the story. [Laughter]

President Zia, Begum Zia, distinguished guests, it's an honor for me to welcome you to the White House this evening.

Mr. President, our talks this morning underlined again the strong links between our countries. We find ourselves even more frequently in agreement on our goals and objectives. And we, for example, applaud your deep commitment to peaceful progress in the Middle East and South Asia, a resolve which bolsters our hopes and the hopes of millions.

In the last few years, in particular, your country has come to the forefront of the struggle to construct a framework for peace in your region, an undertaking which includes your strenuous efforts to bring peaceful resolution to the crisis in Afghanistan -- a resolution which will enable the millions of refugees currently seeking shelter in Pakistan to go home in peace and honor. Further, you've worked to ensure that progress continues toward improving the relationship between Pakistan and India. And in all these efforts the United States has supported your objectives and will applaud your success.

A great intellectual forefather of Pakistan, Muhammed Iqbal, once said that, ``The secret of life is in the seeking.'' Well, President Zia, today the people of the United States and Pakistan are seeking the same goals. Your commitment to peace and progress in South Asia and the Middle East has reinforced our commitment to Pakistan. We want to assure you, Mr. President, and the people of your country that we will not waver in this commitment.

Our relationship is deep and longstanding. It stretches back to Pakistan's first days of independence. It stretches forward as far as we can see. It's based on mutual interest, yes, but also on shared visions and goals in the world around us. It is based, as well, on the fact that the people of both our countries sincerely value the good relations and the affinity between us.

Our people already work together in significant ways through educational exchanges, tourism, economic cooperation, and through bonds of family and friendship. We have cooperative programs in science and technology and in agriculture, and we hope to explore with the Government of Pakistan various ways of enhancing cooperation.

Differences may come between our nations or have come between our nations in the past, but they've proven to be transitory while the ties which bind us together grow stronger year by year. As we welcome you here tonight as the representative of your country and its people, we can say with confidence that those ties will continue to grow stronger and that the good will which exists between our two countries will prove to be both true and lasting.

And, Mr. President, I propose a toast to you, to the people of Pakistan, and to the friendship that binds our nations together.

President Zia. In the name of Allah, the beneficent, the merciful, we praise Him and we send blessings on His honored messenger.

Mr. President, Mrs. Reagan, Excellencies, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen:

After hearing such an eloquent speech from -- Mr. President, from you, and having had such a sumptuous -- so well presented in such a fine company -- a meal that I will perhaps cherish for many years to come, I see very little that I can add to what you have very kindly said. But still, Mr. President, my wife and I, as well as the members of my delegation, are most grateful to you, sir, for the honor you have done us in hosting this delightful banquet for us tonight. I have been deeply touched by the sentiments of your friendship that you have expressed towards me and my country, which are most warmly reciprocated.

Mr. President, the people of Pakistan are deeply committed to molding their lives and building their institutions in keeping with the dictates of Islam. Islam ordains upon -- follows a belief in the equality and universal brotherhood of mankind. It was the dedication of your Founding Fathers, Mr. President, to similar ideals that created this great republic, the United States of America.

Mr. President, your country has been called the melting pot of people from all over the world. This is a trait we share with you, though, perhaps, on a very smaller scale. Let me therefore take you back to Pakistan, if I can.

Herein lies the Indus Valley, which is the heartland of Pakistan. This valley has been a veritable thoroughfare throughout history. Untold millions, representing all the major races of the Eurasian mass have made their way through our mountain passes to settle in or to pass through the Indus Valley. They came in all guises. They came as conquering hordes, as defeated or wandering tribes, as mystics and missionaries, as saints and sultans, and even as tourists and traders, both ancient and modern. And 35 years ago, Mr. President, many millions of Muslims of the South Asian subcontinent came together to help build a dream called Pakistan.

Thus we are indeed the heirs to a rich and a varied, if also somewhat turbulent historical heritage. But by the same token, we are a vigorous people with an innate feel for the movements of history.

And, Mr. President, unfortunately, a new and menacing turbulence has arisen in our region. More than a fifth of the entire population of Afghanistan has been compelled to seek shelter in Pakistan as a result of the armed intervention in that country by a foreign power. We are bending our effort to resolve this tragic situation through a peaceful political settlement, in accordance with the principles enunciated by the international community. The latest manifestation of this was the Resolution of Afghanistan adopted by the United Nations General Assembly, once again with the overwhelming support of the member states.

There are other turbulences in our region, Mr. President. The war between Iran and Iraq and the suffering recently visited upon the Lebanese and Palestinian people continue to cause us profound concern and anguish.

The situation calls for difficult yet courageous decisions. The most important of these is to find a just and a durable solution to the Palestinian problem, in accordance with the national rights of the Palestinian people. If I may be permitted, sir, to recall my words, it is for the first time that Arabs have put up a unified plan for the solution of the Palestine problem. To the best of my knowledge, it is for the first time that the President of the United States of America has put up a very comprehensive plan with some very positive elements in this.

Mr. President, knowing your humane qualities, knowing you as a man of God, knowing you as a man of peace, I urge you not to leave this opportunity that is coming your way. I request you to be yourself, to find the rest of you and take this bold step, because history will then remember you not only as Reagan of the United States of America but Reagan the Peacemaker, the Reagan who solved practically an insolvable problem. We in Pakistan, Mr. President, wish you to take this initiative, and we wish you all the best. And we will pray for your success.

Earlier today in our personal discussion and in the talks including our colleagues, I had an opportunity to discuss these and other issues with you. I'm deeply gratified by the manner in which you made clear your continuing and deep-felt interest in the welfare and prosperity of the people of Pakistan and your support for what we are doing for the sake of stability in our region.

In turn, Mr. President, I would like to assure you, sir, of our confidence that with your acknowledged qualities of human understanding and with the high principled tradition of your country behind you the United States will keep faith with its friends and well-wishers.

Mr. President, allow me to thank you also for what you have said, for what you have said about the continued relationship between Pakistan and the United States of America. We cherish this union of partners -- though unequal partners -- but as two sovereign states comprising of people who love each other, comprising of people who have love and regard for humanity, comprising of people who love peace. And, as you said about the United States of America, that if this country has been created, God must have ordained this to be a country of peace.

Spread this America, Mr. President, to areas other than the United States of America. Let America be the torchbearer of peace, peace not only on the American continent but peace in Afghanistan, peace in Vietnam, peace in Somalia, and above all, peace in Palestine. We wish you, sir, all the best in your endeavors. And you will never find Pakistanis faltering. We'll be there right behind you to give you the helping hand, if we can, at the moment that you wish us to do so.

With these words, may I request you, ladies and gentlemen, to join me in a toast to the health and happiness of President Reagan and his charming wife, Mrs. Nancy Reagan, the continued progress and prosperity of the people of the United States, the establishment of peace, stability, and justice throughout the world. To the health and happiness of all friends, ladies and gentlemen, who are present here tonight. And, finally, a continuing friendship between Pakistan and the United States of America.

I thank you.

Note: President Reagan spoke at 9:50 p.m. in the State Dining Room at the White House.
by anon
Tuesday May 21st, 2002 4:44 PM
Eric said "every argument you make seems to reduce to the same common denominator. Money. The elite are ready control the majority of it. There's only so much gold on the planet!"

The elite view is that there is no such thing as "too much money" or "enough power". This is the basis of capitalism - turning a lot of money into even more money. In any case, the elites must be constantly wary of any truly democratic or redistributive movement that would seek to reduce the concentration of money and power.

I don't disagree with your point that the September 11th attackers hated US culture (but not "freedom itself" - that's absurd), but I think the invasiveness of US power and capital has something to do with creating the conditions for opposition of that level.

Either way, the motivations of the "War on Terror" are extremely suspect. The "Axis of Evil" has no demonstrable link to September 11th. In fact, we ought to be bombing Saudi Arabia, since most of the attackers were Saudi and the regime that rules Saudi Arabia is almost as tyrannical as the Taliban was.
by Jim Morrison
Tuesday May 21st, 2002 5:52 PM
oh GAWD!

Your here too Eric? Well let me catch up on this post and read this interesting work and your attempts to flame it's contributors in some vain effort to maintain your cushy life. Battling the offenders of your strange views of democracy will no doubt leave your scars on these posts as well. Will post soon here!
by Jim Morrison
Tuesday May 21st, 2002 6:17 PM
War benefits the elite in three ways. It makes even more money (countries involved have to borrow even more money from the capitalist centralized banks to fund their efforts). It expands their empire (globalization). Desensitizes and unites the public as their attention is diverted to those patsies that make the mistakes during the process keeping them free and clear of the spotlight.

Don’t mind Eric, he just quotes the rhetoric crap that is spoon fed to him by the mainstream media and calls himself a right wing thinker.

Don’t worry Eric…it can’t be done anyway…globalization is imminent and your fears can be laid to rest.

Just pop the top off your new beer and relax with pleasure knowing that none of us free thinkers can threaten the sophistication of those in the seats of true power. Your self made fortune is secure!

Jim
by Eric
Wednesday May 22nd, 2002 7:03 AM
Sad isn't it. Resorting to desparate mudslinging in an attempt to discredit me. Pursue me relentlessly Jim. You are like my groupie. I treat my people well. When I'm in charge you'll be my number one flunky, Jim.

>globalization is imminent and your fears can be laid to rest.

At least you recognize the fact!

God Bless America
by yoyo gump
Wednesday May 22nd, 2002 7:43 AM
well first of all this is not a phony war. This war is just getting started and none of us where it's going or what it's becoming. Now Eric, I may have misjudged you. It may be the company that you keep. If you're searching for truth then we have something in common. Consider this. What the left and right say about each other has more truth to it than how each side sees itself. Look at the right with the same cold eye that you look at the left. Listen to what the left says about the right without getting defensive. There's an old joke that the left wants to put half the people on welfare and the right wants to put half the people in jail. It's an exaggeration. As for who is telling the truth. Nobody and everybody some times. Even you and me. Here and now. Keep searching. Good luck finding it in a place like this.
by Eric
Wednesday May 22nd, 2002 8:16 AM
yoyo, I hear you and I understand your point. But there was a time when I had no political orientation. A time when I thought the political spectrum was just hogwash and part of the buracreacy preventing anything from getting done. But at some point I realized from listenting to these guys argue, I agreed with the perspective of 90% of the Republicans and disagreed with 90% of the Democrats. That's just how I evolved. But partisan politics means very little to me. Really. I subject everyone's arguments to the same rigorous inspection. I hold everyone's opinions up to the light and look at the grain. Little gets by me.

I'm certainly not here, on indybay, looking for the truth. I haven't seen much of it here. I mean, I've been accused of being everything from a disinformation agent, to a cop, to an idiot. Very few of those accusations could be sustained, I'm certainly not a cop or cia. An idiot, well, that's possible, but I wouldn't rely on the opinions of anyone here to tell me such.

To find the truth here, where paranoia is thick, is not my plan. Maybe to spread a little truth, now that's a possibility. See, I believe those here looking for the truth are the same sort that were snookered by Heaven's Gate, Jim Jones, and such cults. Maybe it's not religion, but politics is just as passionate to some. So when JoJo sarcastically said Ti and Do have a place for these folks on the comet, or brigg calls nessie "Don Quioxte", I understand what they mean. And they are right. It's the closest thing I've seen to truth on Indybay.

by yoyo gump
Wednesday May 22nd, 2002 8:47 AM
Well I'm just the opposite. I was raised to be a Repulican. That God was a Repulican. then I got involved in politics and got to meet some of my heroes. It opened my eyes. The Repulicans says some good things, but look at their actions, look at the results. This is why political discussion are part of the circus. I really did get to meet Ronald Reagan in 1968. He was just doing schtick. They all are. It took me a few years to admit it. It felt so good being right.But I was deluding myself.
by Jim Morrison
Wednesday May 22nd, 2002 8:50 PM
I am just an issue guy, I have voted for both side…and finally realized it doesn’t matter anyway…One president is just the same as the other to me now, until real pressure hits and then you see a difference in character, but most of the time it is the same president, different face. I have learned some ugly truths that have led me to believe that. When I see someone watching the debates I can’t help to think that they are being sucked into the realms of the game that we really have no choice in. Maybe I am just pessimistic. I still vote though.

As far as any “spin” on 911. Of course I think there is. Propaganda and what we know as citizens have a great deal to do with the maneuverability the White House has at their disposal. If not then why would polls exist. If there was no reason for the media to be sanitized then why is it? The government has been sanitizing the news since the Vietnam War to my knowledge. Perhaps way earlier but I have never really made it a subject of research so I cannot say for sure.

And as far as losing your respect Eric, I was never after it. But I still have respect for you never the less. Hehe to be honest I had just finished writing my post on the other page and came here and saw YOU…so perhaps some initial reaction from there spilled over to this page.

Questions on this page I have been looking for are:

Who would be spinning the news and why.

Thoughts anyone?
by Joy
Thursday Jul 25th, 2002 11:56 AM
All news is biased to some extent. Even if you have a "factual" first-hand account of an event, the life experiences of the person stating the "facts" will shape how the story is told. There is no such thing as completely objective news (for that matter one could posit that there may not even be an object reality).

Anyway, Corporate Media (as in 90% of the world's media being owned by just 10 conglomerants) definitely has an agenda when "reporting" the news. In the US the agenda is definitely nationalism. With strong corporate ties, most US news is santizied to endorse the myth of the Good 'ol US of A. (To a certain extent the viewers themselves buy into this. When was the last time you took proactive measures to contest the sanitized mainstream news we all receive? I personally have never written a letter to any of my local news stations contesting this practice.)
Keeping the myth of "America" alive benefits those who have always benefitted - those who have always had the power or power-over rather. Mainstream media's primary focus is to keep the myth alive, to keep nationalism going, to continually instill false unity in a nation that has never really been unified behind their government to behind with.
What is the solution to this? Question everything? Always consider at least 2, 3, 4 sources of news?
by Toby Keith
Thursday Jul 25th, 2002 4:47 PM
American girls and American guys
Will always stand up and salute
Will always recognize
When we see Old Glory flying
There's a lot of men dead
So we can sleep in peace at night
When we lay down our head

My Daddy served in the army
Where he lost his right eye
But he flew a flag out in our yard
Till the day that he died
He wanted my Mother, my Brother,
My Sister and me
To grow up and live happy
In the land of the free

Now this nation that I love
Is falling under attack
A mighty sucker punch came flying in
From somewhere in the back
As soon as we could see clearly
Through our big black eye
Man we lit up your world
Like the Fourth of July

Chorus:
Hey, Uncle Sam put your name
At the top of his list
And the Statue of Liberty
Started shaking her fist
And the eagle will fly
And it's going to be hell
When you hear Mother Freedom
Start ringing her bell
And it will feel like the whole wide world
Is raining down on you
Brought to you courtesy
Of the Red, White and Blue

Oh, justice will be served
And the battle will rage
This big dog will fight
When you rattle his cage
You'll be sorry that you messed
With the U.S. of A.
Cause we'll put a boot in your ass
It's the American way

by Cynthia McNiggy
Friday Jul 26th, 2002 9:11 AM
BOUT DIS HE-YAH PREZ-DENT SELECT: WATS HE B'KNOWIN AN' WEN DID HE KNOWS IT?
by flow
Thursday Aug 22nd, 2002 3:27 AM
Let me warn everyone that Eric is one piece of untrustworthy creature.

Sometimes he appears to be honest, argumentative and sincere.

But then his natural anger bursts and you ask yourself how someone who hates Indymedia can stay on its board all the time. For comparison: I sure wouldn't stay on the forum of the NRA. So why does he stay, you have to ask yourself? Is he a sadomasochist?

So I alert everyone not to take part in any discussion with Eric. I made the error to do so, about 9/11, and he got so pissed off that he decided to resort to posting vulgar pictures on the Indymedia forum stealing my name. Except, he put "flow" with a capital, "Flow", which betrayed him.

Tactics of a bad loser and an amateur agent.
by tom t hall
Thursday Aug 22nd, 2002 4:20 AM
so what youre saying is you believe eric plays fair and then when hes tired of dealing with your silliness he posts using names other than his own and calls you names and stuff.
well then nessie stop calling yourself flow when you want to express opinions your fans wont find acceptable. find one name and stick to it nessie and all the other kiddies wont take your ball out of your hands and pop it. na na na na na. na na na na.
by tom t hall
Thursday Aug 22nd, 2002 5:26 AM
confusedpig.jpgy92507.jpg
we damage this site. we not dumb. we not hear you! lalalala! we very slow but we not dumb. we good, you bad. we good at talking. we not know words good but we good at being dumb. but we not dumb. we smart. you all nessie but we not all tom / eric. we dumb, uh, me mean, we smart like cow.
by flow
Thursday Aug 22nd, 2002 12:32 PM
you don't damage this site at all.


I wonder, do you KNOW you're a fascist ? are you incapable of caring for another being ?

or do you actually believe you're doing something GOOD for humanity ?

I don't understand.


it's much easier breaking the others than trying to work together with others. you're going the wrong way.

...please...! open your heart.

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