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An open letter to Maxxam/PL
Since we now know that Maxxam/PL checks out this website, here is a message for them...
If you really want to end the protests, you can; just follow these four simple steps to peace....
1) Save the last remaining Old Growth. Proposition 40 just set aside $2.7 billion for the creation of parks and the preservation of critical wildlife habitat, which the Old Growth is. Instead of going for Homeland Security funds, go for Prop. 40 funds, and set aside the Old Growth in the meantime. We can work together on obtaining Prop. 40 funds for the Old Growth Redwoods and Douglas Fir areas.
2) Start using selective cuts only. This doesn't mean selecting the biggest, oldest trees, either (shelterwood and seed tree removal). Maintain a multi-layered canopy by only taking some trees out of each area. If you do this all over the land that you can cut on, in, say, fifty-year cycles, then we can maintain a healthy forest.
3) No logging on steep, unstable slopes. These areas are too sensitive to log on, and should be left alone. Some areas are just too steep to log on, and it causes too much sedimentation of the rivers and streams. It's just not worth it...there has to be a better cost-benefit analysis, and there are plenty of other areas to work on, without causing landslides and excessive erosion.
4) No more herbicides and other dangerous chemicals. If you follow the first three steps, then there will be no need for the herbicides, diesel fuel, and burning agents that are currently used. The forest will do fine without these chemicals, if you are practicing true sustainable forestry.
Viola! If you would just TRY these steps, then you would notice a dramatic change in the climate of Humboldt County. How can we have a Forest Peace Alliance when you are calling us "terrorists" and suing us? I was nearly killed by the same logger that killed David "Gypsy" Chain, yet I have been told that I cannot participate in the Roundtable meetings, because I'm on the SLAPP suit. And the only reason I'm on the SLAPP suit is because I was brutally pounced on by one of your employees; I wasn't even in an active THP area!
I was merely out there, with a video camera, trying to document what was going on, checking out proposed timber harvest plans, for the sake of TRUE public comment (for the CDF's public comment period), and trying to document what I perceived to be violations (a Columbia helicopter was flying back and forth, right over a red-tailed hawk's nest).
We do NOT call ourselves "eco-terrorists," and I'm curious as to where you came up with that.
I feel that you are starting to head down the wrong road, a road that will not bring about peace in Humboldt Co., only more strife and pain.
I feel that we, the public, should be allowed access to proposed timber harvest plans, for the sake of public comment. Where's the accountability if we're supposed to base our public comments on the industry's maps and surveys? The public comment period is part of the approval process for every single timber harvest plan, yet we can be legally tackled, put into a choke hold, injured, have our cameras broken and our video tapes stolen, just for being in the area? And not even in an active THP?!?! This does not make sense.
If we have THP maps on hand, and available to show your security guards, and are willing to hike, ride bikes, or drive(driving would have to be pre-arranged, to borrow keys to the gates), then we, the public, should be able to go out and check out the proposed THPs, for the sake of fairness and accountability. And, if you were practicing true sustainable forestry, and not trying to log the Old Growth, then there would be no problem with the THPs, and everything could run smoothly.
We do support sustainable forestry, and we are not about zero-cut, except for Old Growth, because there is so very little left.
Finally, please leave Gypsy Mountain alone. This is the place where our brother was killed, and we just ask that you leave it, and us, to heal. We've been trying to heal from that day, September 17th, 1998, for almost four years now, and, just when we thought that the Gypsy circle was closing, you decided to go back up there and gouge at these old wounds. Please be sensitive and compassionate, and realize that cutting on Gypsy Mountain is very painful to the Earth First! family, and we ask that you set the land that you "own" on that particular hill be set aside, and work together with us to get Prop. 40 funding to expand Grizzly Creek State Park. I'm sure you could get plenty of money for it, and I would bet that the state of California would go for it, with our concerted efforts, including Gypsy's mother. Please be considerate, and show us that you are truly committed to the Forest Peace Alliance...we are all trying to heal...please help in the healing process. Thank you.
Sincerely,
Shunka Wakan
1) Save the last remaining Old Growth. Proposition 40 just set aside $2.7 billion for the creation of parks and the preservation of critical wildlife habitat, which the Old Growth is. Instead of going for Homeland Security funds, go for Prop. 40 funds, and set aside the Old Growth in the meantime. We can work together on obtaining Prop. 40 funds for the Old Growth Redwoods and Douglas Fir areas.
2) Start using selective cuts only. This doesn't mean selecting the biggest, oldest trees, either (shelterwood and seed tree removal). Maintain a multi-layered canopy by only taking some trees out of each area. If you do this all over the land that you can cut on, in, say, fifty-year cycles, then we can maintain a healthy forest.
3) No logging on steep, unstable slopes. These areas are too sensitive to log on, and should be left alone. Some areas are just too steep to log on, and it causes too much sedimentation of the rivers and streams. It's just not worth it...there has to be a better cost-benefit analysis, and there are plenty of other areas to work on, without causing landslides and excessive erosion.
4) No more herbicides and other dangerous chemicals. If you follow the first three steps, then there will be no need for the herbicides, diesel fuel, and burning agents that are currently used. The forest will do fine without these chemicals, if you are practicing true sustainable forestry.
Viola! If you would just TRY these steps, then you would notice a dramatic change in the climate of Humboldt County. How can we have a Forest Peace Alliance when you are calling us "terrorists" and suing us? I was nearly killed by the same logger that killed David "Gypsy" Chain, yet I have been told that I cannot participate in the Roundtable meetings, because I'm on the SLAPP suit. And the only reason I'm on the SLAPP suit is because I was brutally pounced on by one of your employees; I wasn't even in an active THP area!
I was merely out there, with a video camera, trying to document what was going on, checking out proposed timber harvest plans, for the sake of TRUE public comment (for the CDF's public comment period), and trying to document what I perceived to be violations (a Columbia helicopter was flying back and forth, right over a red-tailed hawk's nest).
We do NOT call ourselves "eco-terrorists," and I'm curious as to where you came up with that.
I feel that you are starting to head down the wrong road, a road that will not bring about peace in Humboldt Co., only more strife and pain.
I feel that we, the public, should be allowed access to proposed timber harvest plans, for the sake of public comment. Where's the accountability if we're supposed to base our public comments on the industry's maps and surveys? The public comment period is part of the approval process for every single timber harvest plan, yet we can be legally tackled, put into a choke hold, injured, have our cameras broken and our video tapes stolen, just for being in the area? And not even in an active THP?!?! This does not make sense.
If we have THP maps on hand, and available to show your security guards, and are willing to hike, ride bikes, or drive(driving would have to be pre-arranged, to borrow keys to the gates), then we, the public, should be able to go out and check out the proposed THPs, for the sake of fairness and accountability. And, if you were practicing true sustainable forestry, and not trying to log the Old Growth, then there would be no problem with the THPs, and everything could run smoothly.
We do support sustainable forestry, and we are not about zero-cut, except for Old Growth, because there is so very little left.
Finally, please leave Gypsy Mountain alone. This is the place where our brother was killed, and we just ask that you leave it, and us, to heal. We've been trying to heal from that day, September 17th, 1998, for almost four years now, and, just when we thought that the Gypsy circle was closing, you decided to go back up there and gouge at these old wounds. Please be sensitive and compassionate, and realize that cutting on Gypsy Mountain is very painful to the Earth First! family, and we ask that you set the land that you "own" on that particular hill be set aside, and work together with us to get Prop. 40 funding to expand Grizzly Creek State Park. I'm sure you could get plenty of money for it, and I would bet that the state of California would go for it, with our concerted efforts, including Gypsy's mother. Please be considerate, and show us that you are truly committed to the Forest Peace Alliance...we are all trying to heal...please help in the healing process. Thank you.
Sincerely,
Shunka Wakan
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hey dude
give mea friggin break.
when are you n. cali folk going to get it? You cannot ask or beg these people to change. All the woo in the world will not stop PL. only people resisting their bullshit will stop that-and i mean confrontational resistance, not begging for slightly smaller trees to be cut.
start dealing with reality soon.
give mea friggin break.
when are you n. cali folk going to get it? You cannot ask or beg these people to change. All the woo in the world will not stop PL. only people resisting their bullshit will stop that-and i mean confrontational resistance, not begging for slightly smaller trees to be cut.
start dealing with reality soon.
there is active resistance already going on and we need to work with the community and the company to go farther in protecting these forests. Unfortunatly, we can't be everywhere at once to resist the destruction. We do what we can and also have to hope that things like Prop 40 will be able to save areas also.
In a situation like that, the appropriate strategy is to counter attack.
Shunka,
Your four steps to end protest on PL is just another pile of false propaganda distributed by mislead or unrealistic environmentalist. If you were to look south of PL you would find another industrial timber company, MRC. MRC does not harvest old growth (your 1st step), they practice uneven age management, maintaining multi-age/layered trees/canopies (your 2nd step), they do not log on unstable ground as agreed to when they became certified (step 3), and finally they are phasing out the use to herbicides (step 4). Although, they adopted a management scheme similar if not better than the one you propose they are still protested and the MRC name ran through the mud by environmentalist whose only desire is to see logging stopped. Even if PL were to agree to your “demands” (One a side note, terrorists also make “demands”, any connection?) the environmental community would just find another avenue to attack the forest industry and its hard working employees.
Also, quit complaining about the SLAPP suit and being “pounced on”. You were TRESPASSING, which in case you are unaware is illegal. Although you may not agree with the fact that land can be owned, under our current laws it can so deal with it. We may not all agree with the laws, but to live in a functional society we need to follow them.
Your four steps to end protest on PL is just another pile of false propaganda distributed by mislead or unrealistic environmentalist. If you were to look south of PL you would find another industrial timber company, MRC. MRC does not harvest old growth (your 1st step), they practice uneven age management, maintaining multi-age/layered trees/canopies (your 2nd step), they do not log on unstable ground as agreed to when they became certified (step 3), and finally they are phasing out the use to herbicides (step 4). Although, they adopted a management scheme similar if not better than the one you propose they are still protested and the MRC name ran through the mud by environmentalist whose only desire is to see logging stopped. Even if PL were to agree to your “demands” (One a side note, terrorists also make “demands”, any connection?) the environmental community would just find another avenue to attack the forest industry and its hard working employees.
Also, quit complaining about the SLAPP suit and being “pounced on”. You were TRESPASSING, which in case you are unaware is illegal. Although you may not agree with the fact that land can be owned, under our current laws it can so deal with it. We may not all agree with the laws, but to live in a functional society we need to follow them.
if you think our society is functional, i'd like to know why. it seems to me that a world where the water is getting dirtier everyday, natural ecosystems are toppling precariously as they try to support the weight of urban sprawl and mass agriculture and in which people are struggling or imprisoned because of institutional inequalities is far from functional. in fact, i'd even go so far as to say that our society is fundamentally dysfunctional due to the psychological processes (ie. uninhibited greed) that it is founded on. furthermore, even within the "functional society" that we live in, CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE is a crucial yet underadvertized tenant that must occur in order for the more noble principles of our government to take hold. In terms of trespassing, there is a huge difference between trespassing on private property for the sake of bettering oneself (ie. breaking and entering) and corporate controlled wilderness for the sake of helping and aiding the planet and its inhabitants in a nonviolent peaceful way.
Shunka-Your letter was very good,it sounds like N. Cal forests activists are being reasonable and your demands sound like the resonable thing for PL to do. We know they have proven themselves very unreasonable in the past,but your approach will once again prove them to be unreasonable in the future. You have worked hard to save the last of the ancient Redwoods and Doug firs. Keep trying. Don't give up the struggle, a letter such as this is but one tactic in the sphere of resistance. Keep the outreach at a maximum, people outside the immediate bioregion down there are NOT hearing enough updates about the tree-sits happening down there, alot of people out there are very concerned about tthe ancient Redwoods, it would be nice if there could be regular posts from the trees every week with updates. Thanks,keep up the good work-we love you.-A Cascadian
By calling these steps to peace "demands," you are falling right into the role that Bush and the extreme right-wing wants you to. You're allowing yourself to be brainwashed by the "war on terrorism" hype.
I am just spelling out what I perceive the main problems to be, and steps that could be taken to solve them. I'm not demanding anything; rather, I'm pleading for dialogue and an end to the pain that I have seen and felt in the people of Humboldt County, including myself.
About the "trespassing" thing...some people use the private property laws to justify just about anything.
In a civil society, it should not be OK to brutally attack people, endangering their lives (he could have broken my neck or crushed my windpipe). I had voluntarily submitted, because I didn't want to be chased off a cliff, as one of our other friends had been, earlier in the year. Still, I was brutally pounced on, and could have been killed, as in the case of Gypsy. If we were allowed to participate in the THP approval process, in a REAL way, by being allowed to access proposed THP areas, and to do public monitoring of timber harvesting practices (at a safe distance from active THPs), then there would be much more FAIRNESS and ACCOUNTABILITY, OPENNESS and HONESTY.
We really want to bring the situation up to a level where we don't feel that we have to protest...we just want to live in peace, locally and globally. We can start at home, and Humboldt County is our home, just as the Earth is our home, on a global scale.
We need to continue to evolve, and get to a point where we're not always fighting each other...life is too short to live in strife. We want to be able to look at each other and smile, from down deep, because we have gotten past our differences, by working through them, in a real way.
The MRC has its' own problems, which is why people are still protesting there...it's not that we're just addicted to protesting...we're people, and we want to just live our lives in peace, like anyone else. When the situation prevents people from living in peace, then they speak out, and, when that doesn't work, they rise up. It's the nature of human beings, and it will continue until we evolve to a point of mutual cooperation, peace, and equality. It's just people's nature to rise up against oppression, and we, in Humboldt, do this through non-violent civil disobedience and direct action.
Please help to bring us to a place of peace.
Sincerely,
Shunka Wakan
I am just spelling out what I perceive the main problems to be, and steps that could be taken to solve them. I'm not demanding anything; rather, I'm pleading for dialogue and an end to the pain that I have seen and felt in the people of Humboldt County, including myself.
About the "trespassing" thing...some people use the private property laws to justify just about anything.
In a civil society, it should not be OK to brutally attack people, endangering their lives (he could have broken my neck or crushed my windpipe). I had voluntarily submitted, because I didn't want to be chased off a cliff, as one of our other friends had been, earlier in the year. Still, I was brutally pounced on, and could have been killed, as in the case of Gypsy. If we were allowed to participate in the THP approval process, in a REAL way, by being allowed to access proposed THP areas, and to do public monitoring of timber harvesting practices (at a safe distance from active THPs), then there would be much more FAIRNESS and ACCOUNTABILITY, OPENNESS and HONESTY.
We really want to bring the situation up to a level where we don't feel that we have to protest...we just want to live in peace, locally and globally. We can start at home, and Humboldt County is our home, just as the Earth is our home, on a global scale.
We need to continue to evolve, and get to a point where we're not always fighting each other...life is too short to live in strife. We want to be able to look at each other and smile, from down deep, because we have gotten past our differences, by working through them, in a real way.
The MRC has its' own problems, which is why people are still protesting there...it's not that we're just addicted to protesting...we're people, and we want to just live our lives in peace, like anyone else. When the situation prevents people from living in peace, then they speak out, and, when that doesn't work, they rise up. It's the nature of human beings, and it will continue until we evolve to a point of mutual cooperation, peace, and equality. It's just people's nature to rise up against oppression, and we, in Humboldt, do this through non-violent civil disobedience and direct action.
Please help to bring us to a place of peace.
Sincerely,
Shunka Wakan
" . . . laws . . . we need to follow them. . . ."
by nessie • Thursday May 02, 2002 at 07:27 PM
That's what Pontius Pilate said, also Eichmann.
The Pontius Pilate thing, you wanna quote me Book, Chapter and Verse on that lil' buck-a-roo?
by nessie • Thursday May 02, 2002 at 07:27 PM
That's what Pontius Pilate said, also Eichmann.
The Pontius Pilate thing, you wanna quote me Book, Chapter and Verse on that lil' buck-a-roo?
I respect that others feel the need for offensive attacks against those choosing to destroy our habitat. I have chosen non-violent direct action because violence breeds violence. Sabbotage isn't violence but I've seen it lead to violence. I try not to be a hypocrite, so I do unto others as I would have them do unto me. A lot of loggers that I talk to agree that clear-cutting and the use of herbicides are wrong. The huge corporations have a long history of exploiting workers and the environment. I made a vow that I wouldn't allow corporations to exploit me or the environment. Workers, its time to take that vow or continue to be a wage slave. Your children might not get to make that choice.
Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves Shunka.
Perhaps the dogma you press on others is more a matter of opinion than fact. You are in no position to negotiate with Pacific Lumber or any other natural resource company because your protests have been inconsequenal. We can all apprecaite your fervor, but to analyze from a results perspective, you really haven't amounted to much on the north coast.
I laud your attempt at dictating forest policy for industrial ownership. If you have any advice for brain surgery technique or space travel, please don't hold anything back. I am sure you are well qualified.
Finally, in regards to the tragic events that occured a few years back at Swains Flat, the loss of a friend is always a terrible thing. I pray that nothing of the sort will ever be repeated. It would be unethical, however to assume not the slightest bit of responsibility on the part of Earth First!. Pacifc Lumber has reached out to David Chain's mother. I don't beleive that she has ever asked for PL to give the hillside away. If his mother is able to find a way to work constructively with the company, despite her great loss, why can't you let them work out the details?
Perhaps the dogma you press on others is more a matter of opinion than fact. You are in no position to negotiate with Pacific Lumber or any other natural resource company because your protests have been inconsequenal. We can all apprecaite your fervor, but to analyze from a results perspective, you really haven't amounted to much on the north coast.
I laud your attempt at dictating forest policy for industrial ownership. If you have any advice for brain surgery technique or space travel, please don't hold anything back. I am sure you are well qualified.
Finally, in regards to the tragic events that occured a few years back at Swains Flat, the loss of a friend is always a terrible thing. I pray that nothing of the sort will ever be repeated. It would be unethical, however to assume not the slightest bit of responsibility on the part of Earth First!. Pacifc Lumber has reached out to David Chain's mother. I don't beleive that she has ever asked for PL to give the hillside away. If his mother is able to find a way to work constructively with the company, despite her great loss, why can't you let them work out the details?
Actually, I was part of the Luna ground support team, and we did save Luna, so I know that my actions have been part of saving trees. I was also the person who found the cut in Luna, when someone attacked her, and was able to alert people, so that the braces could be put on Luna, saving her from falling in the next big storm. So, your allegations that our actions have been inconsequential are totally false:)
Additionally, I have been studying these forest issues for almost four years now(the time it takes to get a B.S. degree), so I know that I have a grasp on the issues. Of course, there is much more to learn; we should learn throughout our lives, or else stagnate, which is when the pond scum starts to take over. I'm learning more and more every day, thankfully. Still, I know that these four steps to peace would work, and I know that we, as the public, need to have the right to fully participate in the timber harvest plan approval/disapproval process, which means being able to actually SEE the proposed THP areas.
Regarding Gypsy Mountain, it's a matter of respect for life and death. Earth First!ers were sitting in the one of the last Old Growth Redwoods on that ridge, Aradia, at the moment of Gypsy's death. Just because it wasn't in the settlement doesn't mean that it's not an issue.
It's obviously an issue, or else people wouldn't be tree-sitting there. Aradia is an Ancient Old Growth Redwood...it's huge! If Maxxam/PL follows through with this THP, it would connect the two clearcuts made in the THP that Gypsy was killed in, making the whole ridge one big clearcut...that's real respectful, huh?
We were risking our lives to do CDF's job, because Maxxam/PL punched in the road before the end of marbled murellet nesting season, making their cutting illegal. It was only two days after the end of marbled murellet nesting season, and Maxxam/PL had already nearly finished the entire unit, which was not only illegal, it was also on an extremely steep and unstable slope, making it even more atrocious. We were up there standing for what is right, and one of us was murdered for it. On top of that, the local, state, and federal "justice" system failed to do anything, except threaten to charge us for Gypsy's death (sound familiar? Does the Judi Bari case ring a bell?), and never held the logger, the company, nor the corporation liable. Instead, we had to wait three years for a jury trial that never happened, because, in the end, Maxxam knew that they were wrong, and that they messed up, big time, and offered to settle out of court. So now, to cover their losses, and, possibly, to get back at Earth First!, Maxxam wants to finish decimating Gypsy Mountain, including an UNENTERED OLD GROWTH GROVE, which is where Aradia is.
It would be so much more beneficial, to everyone, if Maxxam/PL would just agree to set EVEN PART of Gypsy Mountain aside, and try to get Prop. 40, or other, money for it, especially Aradia and a buffer zone around it, much like the Luna deal, and work WITH US instead of AGAINST US all the time.
Maybe we could work together to come up with a sustainable THP for the rest of Gypsy Mountain, since that it what Gypsy, and the rest of us, are pushing for.
It might be a good place to start, give it a try, and see what we can come up with, TOGETHER, and begin healing the wounds in Humboldt Co.
Additionally, I have been studying these forest issues for almost four years now(the time it takes to get a B.S. degree), so I know that I have a grasp on the issues. Of course, there is much more to learn; we should learn throughout our lives, or else stagnate, which is when the pond scum starts to take over. I'm learning more and more every day, thankfully. Still, I know that these four steps to peace would work, and I know that we, as the public, need to have the right to fully participate in the timber harvest plan approval/disapproval process, which means being able to actually SEE the proposed THP areas.
Regarding Gypsy Mountain, it's a matter of respect for life and death. Earth First!ers were sitting in the one of the last Old Growth Redwoods on that ridge, Aradia, at the moment of Gypsy's death. Just because it wasn't in the settlement doesn't mean that it's not an issue.
It's obviously an issue, or else people wouldn't be tree-sitting there. Aradia is an Ancient Old Growth Redwood...it's huge! If Maxxam/PL follows through with this THP, it would connect the two clearcuts made in the THP that Gypsy was killed in, making the whole ridge one big clearcut...that's real respectful, huh?
We were risking our lives to do CDF's job, because Maxxam/PL punched in the road before the end of marbled murellet nesting season, making their cutting illegal. It was only two days after the end of marbled murellet nesting season, and Maxxam/PL had already nearly finished the entire unit, which was not only illegal, it was also on an extremely steep and unstable slope, making it even more atrocious. We were up there standing for what is right, and one of us was murdered for it. On top of that, the local, state, and federal "justice" system failed to do anything, except threaten to charge us for Gypsy's death (sound familiar? Does the Judi Bari case ring a bell?), and never held the logger, the company, nor the corporation liable. Instead, we had to wait three years for a jury trial that never happened, because, in the end, Maxxam knew that they were wrong, and that they messed up, big time, and offered to settle out of court. So now, to cover their losses, and, possibly, to get back at Earth First!, Maxxam wants to finish decimating Gypsy Mountain, including an UNENTERED OLD GROWTH GROVE, which is where Aradia is.
It would be so much more beneficial, to everyone, if Maxxam/PL would just agree to set EVEN PART of Gypsy Mountain aside, and try to get Prop. 40, or other, money for it, especially Aradia and a buffer zone around it, much like the Luna deal, and work WITH US instead of AGAINST US all the time.
Maybe we could work together to come up with a sustainable THP for the rest of Gypsy Mountain, since that it what Gypsy, and the rest of us, are pushing for.
It might be a good place to start, give it a try, and see what we can come up with, TOGETHER, and begin healing the wounds in Humboldt Co.
Shunka,
Your “four” years of studies in forestry issues are cute, but in no way are they equivalent to what a student of Forestry must do in order to obtain a very difficult and under recognized B.S. degree. With your knowledge of Forestry you would be lucky to be granted a job on a marking crew or cleaning bathrooms for the Park Service. Maybe after you do obtain a job like that and a few more years of study/experience you could actually work on and with a THP. Then if you are truly a devoted student of forestry with endless hours of studies and a few more years you could become a RPF. Once you have obtained you RPF and with your erudite knowledge you can start to show us all how to manage individual stands. After many more years of practicing forestry maybe you will be granted a position where you can again enlighten us all on how to balance economics, sustainability, and resources conservation on a watershed level. Until then don’t insult the individuals who have given large portions of their lives to the study and practices of forestry.
Your “four” years of studies in forestry issues are cute, but in no way are they equivalent to what a student of Forestry must do in order to obtain a very difficult and under recognized B.S. degree. With your knowledge of Forestry you would be lucky to be granted a job on a marking crew or cleaning bathrooms for the Park Service. Maybe after you do obtain a job like that and a few more years of study/experience you could actually work on and with a THP. Then if you are truly a devoted student of forestry with endless hours of studies and a few more years you could become a RPF. Once you have obtained you RPF and with your erudite knowledge you can start to show us all how to manage individual stands. After many more years of practicing forestry maybe you will be granted a position where you can again enlighten us all on how to balance economics, sustainability, and resources conservation on a watershed level. Until then don’t insult the individuals who have given large portions of their lives to the study and practices of forestry.
Shunka, I guess when i called your comments "demands" I pushed some buttons with you, and I apologise for that. I understand you are working hard to save the Redwood forests. Maybe you might be better off demanding these changes, another poster pointed out that PL probobly could give a shit about your letter,and I feel that is probobly true. They also could care less about the life of our brother David Chain, or anybody else that is in the woods protecting these groves. I have sat in Redwood trees for extended periods in California and Doug Firs up here in Oregon and I know the attitudes of the timber industry and how they look at us. So maybe you should demand things, and demand a hell of a lot more than you expect to get, and no compromise. I'm a little disapointed that you blasted my comments after I tried to support your letter, I thought the sentiments were good, I thought you were talking sense. Peace
Shunka, I guess when i called your comments "demands" I pushed some buttons with you, and I apologise for that. I understand you are working hard to save the Redwood forests. Maybe you might be better off demanding these changes, another poster pointed out that PL probobly could give a shit about your letter,and I feel that is probobly true. They also could care less about the life of our brother David Chain, or anybody else that is in the woods protecting these groves. I have sat in Redwood trees for extended periods in California and Doug Firs up here in Oregon and I know the attitudes of the timber industry and how they look at us. So maybe you should demand things, and demand a hell of a lot more than you expect to get, and no compromise. I'm a little disapointed that you blasted my comments after I tried to support your letter, I thought the sentiments were good, I thought you were talking sense. Peace
I was actually referring to another post, which accused me of making "demands," and using that to back up their "terrorist" allegations. I didn't notice until later that you had also used that terminology; I wasn't aiming my comment at you, although I still maintain that these solutions are not "demands." These are the four basic sources of friction, and the four basic things that we are asking for.
I feel that we can't really go through life demanding things of other people; it's not really the way to make your voice heard, I believe. Instead, I'd rather lay the problems out on the table, and work on solutions.
I feel that is what all people need to do, in order to stop the pain and suffering, worldwide.
If people could just grasp the concept of "Stop fighting," imagine what could happen...the military would be out of a job! And I don't mean just throw our hands up and just let anything go...I mean getting people to stop attacking each other, with weapons and words, and to start really talking about our problems with each other, and collectively working on getting past those problems, by finding solutions, so that we can live truly happy and peaceful lives.
If we could get the whole world to just stop fighting...
As for the B.S. comment, I already have a college degree in Environmental Studies, and I could go through years and years of sitting in classrooms and being brainwashed by the shitstem, get all kinds of letters behind my name, and, by then, all the Old Growth would be gone. The agencies don't listen to real scientists, who show them graphs, studies, photos, etc., because the agencies are allowing the corporations to destroy the Earth. If you don't say what they want to hear, they just dismiss you as a crackpot, or just smirk in your face, because they know the truth, yet they are burying the truth in the name of greed.
I've personally seen the CDF come up here and literally smirk and lie in the faces of the community of Freshwater. You don't have to go through four decades of school to see, and feel, the effects of corporate industrial forestry and the exploitation of the Earth.
I've been through your school, and I have talked to the "forestry" professors...they are backing up liquidation logging! What do you expect from a system that hires the former fat-cat of Maxxam Corp., Barry Munitz, as their "chancellor"?
We know what needs to happen...the people of Humboldt know what needs to happen...we need TRUE Sustainable Forestry, and REAL Sustainable Living, on all fronts.
We CAN work together, and, globally, we MUST!
Our survival, as a planet, depends on it...
I feel that we can't really go through life demanding things of other people; it's not really the way to make your voice heard, I believe. Instead, I'd rather lay the problems out on the table, and work on solutions.
I feel that is what all people need to do, in order to stop the pain and suffering, worldwide.
If people could just grasp the concept of "Stop fighting," imagine what could happen...the military would be out of a job! And I don't mean just throw our hands up and just let anything go...I mean getting people to stop attacking each other, with weapons and words, and to start really talking about our problems with each other, and collectively working on getting past those problems, by finding solutions, so that we can live truly happy and peaceful lives.
If we could get the whole world to just stop fighting...
As for the B.S. comment, I already have a college degree in Environmental Studies, and I could go through years and years of sitting in classrooms and being brainwashed by the shitstem, get all kinds of letters behind my name, and, by then, all the Old Growth would be gone. The agencies don't listen to real scientists, who show them graphs, studies, photos, etc., because the agencies are allowing the corporations to destroy the Earth. If you don't say what they want to hear, they just dismiss you as a crackpot, or just smirk in your face, because they know the truth, yet they are burying the truth in the name of greed.
I've personally seen the CDF come up here and literally smirk and lie in the faces of the community of Freshwater. You don't have to go through four decades of school to see, and feel, the effects of corporate industrial forestry and the exploitation of the Earth.
I've been through your school, and I have talked to the "forestry" professors...they are backing up liquidation logging! What do you expect from a system that hires the former fat-cat of Maxxam Corp., Barry Munitz, as their "chancellor"?
We know what needs to happen...the people of Humboldt know what needs to happen...we need TRUE Sustainable Forestry, and REAL Sustainable Living, on all fronts.
We CAN work together, and, globally, we MUST!
Our survival, as a planet, depends on it...
Shunka,
Has it ever occurred to you that you may be the one who is being brainwashed by the, how did you put it, shitstem. Or are you above falling victim to propaganda? And who are these so called real scientists that you speak of? Also, I find it hard to believe that you can accuse this area as being part of the “exploitation of Earth”. After all we are in one the most regulated areas on Earth, and yes after trees are cut they are either planted or grow back naturally, of course you understand this from your studies (forest are sustainable). Here in California resources are managed, so search for your exploitations else where.
Has it ever occurred to you that you may be the one who is being brainwashed by the, how did you put it, shitstem. Or are you above falling victim to propaganda? And who are these so called real scientists that you speak of? Also, I find it hard to believe that you can accuse this area as being part of the “exploitation of Earth”. After all we are in one the most regulated areas on Earth, and yes after trees are cut they are either planted or grow back naturally, of course you understand this from your studies (forest are sustainable). Here in California resources are managed, so search for your exploitations else where.
If Humboldt Co. is one of the most regulated places on Earth, then we are in big trouble, which, of course, we are. Forests all over the world are being exploited in the same way, by this blueprint for profit and destruction. It's amazing that you have been getting away with it for this long, because it's such obvious irresponsibility. The hillsides have been coming down(Stafford), people can no longer use the water from the rivers, and Maxxam has to deliver them water(Elk River), people's homes have been flooding(Freshwater), Maxxam wants to log the last Old Growth on the ridge where Gypsy was killed(Van Duzen), and log the last of the Old Growth Douglas Fir forests(Mattole). It's time to evolve, and allow yourselves to rise to a higher consciousness. Times have changed, and people all over the world are starting to do things in a more conscious, responsible way. Maxxam and the government need to catch up, and realize what is acceptable by today's standards.
Pacific Lumber used to be a good example of how you can have a responsible large-scale logging operation.
Why not reclaim that role, and show how we can work together, on a local level, to break the spell of corporate america. As long as the corporate big-dogs can keep the rest of us fighting amongst ourselves, the easier it is for them to sit back, smirk, and collect the dough.
If we can decide to do what is right, locally, in our communities, no matter what the corporate execs want us to do, then they are disempowered by the overwhelming will of the people, because then even they realize that it's for the best, and there's no use in fighting it, because it's already happening.
We, as the community of Humboldt Co., all-inclusive, should decide to give sustainable forestry an honest try, and see what happens. We will flourish as a community, grow gardens, share food, eat and play music together, and live a good life, in harmony with the Earth and each other.
We should be raising our voices, together, to end all wars, worldwide. We are the people of Humboldt, after all, and we should uphold our reputation for being forward-thinking people. All wars must end.
We have to learn to talk out our problems, and to share.
It's such a basic thing...sharing...if we could just learn to share with everyone, most of our problems would disappear. I sincerely hope we can learn...
Pacific Lumber used to be a good example of how you can have a responsible large-scale logging operation.
Why not reclaim that role, and show how we can work together, on a local level, to break the spell of corporate america. As long as the corporate big-dogs can keep the rest of us fighting amongst ourselves, the easier it is for them to sit back, smirk, and collect the dough.
If we can decide to do what is right, locally, in our communities, no matter what the corporate execs want us to do, then they are disempowered by the overwhelming will of the people, because then even they realize that it's for the best, and there's no use in fighting it, because it's already happening.
We, as the community of Humboldt Co., all-inclusive, should decide to give sustainable forestry an honest try, and see what happens. We will flourish as a community, grow gardens, share food, eat and play music together, and live a good life, in harmony with the Earth and each other.
We should be raising our voices, together, to end all wars, worldwide. We are the people of Humboldt, after all, and we should uphold our reputation for being forward-thinking people. All wars must end.
We have to learn to talk out our problems, and to share.
It's such a basic thing...sharing...if we could just learn to share with everyone, most of our problems would disappear. I sincerely hope we can learn...
The corporate industrial model of "resource management."
Save Gypsy Mountain, and the rest of the last of the Earth's remaining wild places...
Save Gypsy Mountain, and the rest of the last of the Earth's remaining wild places...
To Bill Buck:
Please keep your smear comments to yourself. If you are going to factually debate, that's great. But keep the smears to yourself.
Please keep your smear comments to yourself. If you are going to factually debate, that's great. But keep the smears to yourself.
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