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American Indians Aren’t Like Palestinians
Palestinian Arabs are not indigenous to Palestine. They are leftover Arabs, residual of another age.
MANY PEOPLE SEE A SIMILARITY BETWEEN American Indians and today’s Palestinians. I’m Comanche Indian. I see no similarity whatsoever.
Comanches were once "Lords of the South Plains," (Wallace & Hoebel, 1952). Arabs living in Palestine have never dominated anything but goats. Comanches were independent, and certainly not supported by two billion other Indian ‘brothers,’ like the Palestinian Arabs claim they’re supported by the Arab world.
There’s no similarity in the land claim issue. Comanches, never numbering more than six or seven thousand, were simply strong enough to take over the American southwestern plains, first from other Indians, then from white people. Palestinians have accomplished nothing but suicide bombings.
Palestinian Arabs are not indigenous to Palestine. They are leftover Arabs, residual of another age. Knowing Arab history is vital to understanding the situation in the Middle East. (Joan Peters’ From Time Immemorial (1984) is a ‘must read’ on this subject.)
Arabs are from Arabia. Beginning in AD 622, under Mohammad, Arab "prophet" of Medina, the Islamic religion became a war machine and aggressively expanded from the Arabian Peninsula to all directions until AD 750 when it controlled North Africa westward to Spain and southern France, northward to Palestine and Armenia, and eastward 400 miles past the Indus River.
It was spectacular achievement, one which clearly proved Islam to be not a religion of peace, but of dominance. Arabs intermarried, enslaved, and otherwise lorded over every culture they encountered. Arabs established the African and Asian slave routes, which are still used today for slave trade out of India and Nepal, as well as Africa and the Far East.
European Christians finally fended off Islamic dominance to the east and west. By the 15th century, Muslims were ousted from Spain and from most of the Balkans by the 17th century. Mongolians broke Islamic dominance in the Orient. The last phase of Islamic political dominance, the Ottoman Empire (Turkey), ended in 1840 when Constantinople submitted to terms of Western powers in its dispute with Egypt. Turkey’s government declared itself secular by 1922.
During all this time Palestine was little more than a wilderness of nomads, loosely associated groups of provincial subdivisions with frequently changing administrations. The people were a "pan-Arab" mix of gypsy-like leftovers, whom the General Syrian Congress of 1919 declared to be "the southern part of Syria." It wasn’t considered "Palestine," a separate Arab nationality, until the 1967 Six-Day War of Israel’s boundary expansions.
A ‘Palestinian Arab nationality’ was something Musa Alami began asserting after 1948, as a political reaction against Israel. As R. Sayigh wrote, "A strongly defined Palestinian identity did not emerge until 1968, two decades after the expulsion [of some Arabs living in parts of Palestine]," (Journal of Palestine Studies, 1977). In twenty years, Alami’s myth took effect.
But the land-by-residence claim gives Palestinian Arabs even less right. In 1950, United Nations Relief and Work Agency (UNRWA) defined a Palestinian Arab as one who had lived in Palestine a minimum of two years before 1948. This is no ancient claim.
The ancient, indigenous inhabitants of Palestine are long perished from the earth. Canaanites, Phoencians, and then Philistines, all were dominated by the Israelites before 1060 BC. Most of these cultural identities dissolved completely by the neo-Babylonian age, or, the 6th century BC.
Arabs weren’t even in Palestine until the mid-7th century AD, over a thousand years later, after Palestine’s 1,300-year Jewish history. Arabs later living in Palestine never developed themselves or the land, but remained nomadic and quasi-primitive during their 1,200-year stay.
Then a stronger people ― modern Jews who’d been expelled from their homes in Europe and in Arab countries ― came in and conquered (without annihilating) the Palestinian Arabs.
As a Comanche Indian, I’m sensitive to this history. I believe the conqueror has a right to what he has conquered. No one owns the land. Only he who is strong enough to possess it will control it and the people living on it. That’s the law of war.
Teddy Roosevelt once said, "Let sentimentalists say what they will, the man who puts the soil to use must of right dispossess the man who does not, or the world will come to a standstill." (W. T. Hagan, Theodore Roosevelt and Six Friends of the Indians, 1997). The land developers, the agrarians, have become stronger than the hunters.
In the case of Comanches, we lost a magnificent hunting empire, and a lot of ego with it. In the case of "Palestinian" Arabs, what is lost? Why their sense of humiliation?
Comanches were once "Lords of the South Plains," (Wallace & Hoebel, 1952). Arabs living in Palestine have never dominated anything but goats. Comanches were independent, and certainly not supported by two billion other Indian ‘brothers,’ like the Palestinian Arabs claim they’re supported by the Arab world.
There’s no similarity in the land claim issue. Comanches, never numbering more than six or seven thousand, were simply strong enough to take over the American southwestern plains, first from other Indians, then from white people. Palestinians have accomplished nothing but suicide bombings.
Palestinian Arabs are not indigenous to Palestine. They are leftover Arabs, residual of another age. Knowing Arab history is vital to understanding the situation in the Middle East. (Joan Peters’ From Time Immemorial (1984) is a ‘must read’ on this subject.)
Arabs are from Arabia. Beginning in AD 622, under Mohammad, Arab "prophet" of Medina, the Islamic religion became a war machine and aggressively expanded from the Arabian Peninsula to all directions until AD 750 when it controlled North Africa westward to Spain and southern France, northward to Palestine and Armenia, and eastward 400 miles past the Indus River.
It was spectacular achievement, one which clearly proved Islam to be not a religion of peace, but of dominance. Arabs intermarried, enslaved, and otherwise lorded over every culture they encountered. Arabs established the African and Asian slave routes, which are still used today for slave trade out of India and Nepal, as well as Africa and the Far East.
European Christians finally fended off Islamic dominance to the east and west. By the 15th century, Muslims were ousted from Spain and from most of the Balkans by the 17th century. Mongolians broke Islamic dominance in the Orient. The last phase of Islamic political dominance, the Ottoman Empire (Turkey), ended in 1840 when Constantinople submitted to terms of Western powers in its dispute with Egypt. Turkey’s government declared itself secular by 1922.
During all this time Palestine was little more than a wilderness of nomads, loosely associated groups of provincial subdivisions with frequently changing administrations. The people were a "pan-Arab" mix of gypsy-like leftovers, whom the General Syrian Congress of 1919 declared to be "the southern part of Syria." It wasn’t considered "Palestine," a separate Arab nationality, until the 1967 Six-Day War of Israel’s boundary expansions.
A ‘Palestinian Arab nationality’ was something Musa Alami began asserting after 1948, as a political reaction against Israel. As R. Sayigh wrote, "A strongly defined Palestinian identity did not emerge until 1968, two decades after the expulsion [of some Arabs living in parts of Palestine]," (Journal of Palestine Studies, 1977). In twenty years, Alami’s myth took effect.
But the land-by-residence claim gives Palestinian Arabs even less right. In 1950, United Nations Relief and Work Agency (UNRWA) defined a Palestinian Arab as one who had lived in Palestine a minimum of two years before 1948. This is no ancient claim.
The ancient, indigenous inhabitants of Palestine are long perished from the earth. Canaanites, Phoencians, and then Philistines, all were dominated by the Israelites before 1060 BC. Most of these cultural identities dissolved completely by the neo-Babylonian age, or, the 6th century BC.
Arabs weren’t even in Palestine until the mid-7th century AD, over a thousand years later, after Palestine’s 1,300-year Jewish history. Arabs later living in Palestine never developed themselves or the land, but remained nomadic and quasi-primitive during their 1,200-year stay.
Then a stronger people ― modern Jews who’d been expelled from their homes in Europe and in Arab countries ― came in and conquered (without annihilating) the Palestinian Arabs.
As a Comanche Indian, I’m sensitive to this history. I believe the conqueror has a right to what he has conquered. No one owns the land. Only he who is strong enough to possess it will control it and the people living on it. That’s the law of war.
Teddy Roosevelt once said, "Let sentimentalists say what they will, the man who puts the soil to use must of right dispossess the man who does not, or the world will come to a standstill." (W. T. Hagan, Theodore Roosevelt and Six Friends of the Indians, 1997). The land developers, the agrarians, have become stronger than the hunters.
In the case of Comanches, we lost a magnificent hunting empire, and a lot of ego with it. In the case of "Palestinian" Arabs, what is lost? Why their sense of humiliation?
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Really David you don't convince me of the problems of the analogy, just your own hatred of the Arab peoples. I personally don't see why any Palestinian should put up with being treated as a second class citizen as your posting seems to imply all Palestinians should. As for First Nations, they should have to put up with American racism either, whether their ancestors were a "hunting empire" or corn growers....
If you really think your shit doesn't stink, you should ask someone else.
The 'facts' you laid out have nothing to do with the way the Israeli's land grab from them, nor how it is similiar to how the settlers of the old west land grabbed from all native americans (not just your 'chosen' ones).
Might doesn't make right. I don't care how oppressed your people were in history, it doesn't change that facts. This goes for pretty much everyone who's people have been oppressed.
I'll stand with you in fighting oppression, but don't try to lay on us that your shit don't stink and that we should all listen to your wise ways.
divide and conquer, divide and conquer, divide and conquer, divide them all...
coin-coin-coinTELpro, coin-coin-coinTELpro, coin-coin-coinTELpro, make them fall...
wow, the FBI is getting pretty sloppy. this is so beyond a reach, it's not even funny. i would reply, but why bother?
questions to the original poster:
how long you been with the bureau?
are you a temp?
how much do they pay you?
do you launch rubber bands while you sit around bored at your desk trying to think up new strategies, or are you more of the "i'm serving my country by denying people their right to self-determination" type?
what would you do if your children were involved with a group you were placed on your newest temp assignment to disrupt? (I know you're probably a full-time employee, but i like the idea of the FBI outsourcing Cointelpro to temps -- typing test, basic math test, write a letter pitting one group against another, like that. I bet they even offer you donuts before the interview.)
have you ever thought of a more interesting line of work? i hear gardening is good exercise.
anon
Really David you don't convince me of the problems of the analogy, just your own hatred of the Arab peoples. I personally don't see why any Palestinian should put up with being treated as a second class citizen as your posting seems to imply all Palestinians should. As for First Nations, they should have to put up with American racism either, whether their ancestors were a "hunting empire" or corn growers....
For more about logic, see:
http://www.intrepidsoftware.com/fallacy/toc.htm
Judaism (and Christianity) is the indigenuous culture of the region.
Islam is a much more recent import from Saudi Arabia.
Israel and the westbank are the cradles of Jewish culture.
The Palestinian Arabs already have one nation, Jordan, which occupies 75% of the original palestinian mandate area and in which Palestinian Arabs can assert their NATIONALITY RIGHTS.
The Westbank which is correctly termed Judaia and Samaria contains a myriad of sites which are of great spiritual, religious and cultural value to Judaism.
When a Moslem prays, he or she faces Mecca in Saudi Arabia not Jerusalem. Moslems make their HAJ pilgrimage to Mecca not to Jerusalem. Islam has virtually no relgious claim to Jerusalem whatsoever.
Jerusalem IS NEVER MENTIONED IN THE KORAN and yet it is ubiquitous in the Jewish Bible.
The so called Palestinians are mostly immigrants from neighbouring Arab lands who migrated to Israel after the Jews started returning in 1880s and improved the country's economy and agriculture.
Arafat was born in Cairo, Egypt, not in 'Palestine'
Worship of the Great Mother is the world’s oldest religion. It is still practiced today. Before She came to be worshiped, the indigenous religion of what is now called Palestine, was that of the original inhabitants, the Neanderthals. The Neanderthals worshiped the Great Cave Bear. Worship of the Great Cave Bear was the longest lived religion ever. It persisted for hundreds of thousands of years.
Both of these arguments are supported by somewhat tenuous claims to authority: being a Comanche Indian, implying extensive study of the Middle East, etc.
The first argument I have heard before many times, and, frankly, it wouldn't matter if it were absolutely true. No matter how you look at it, people were living on the land, none of it being stolen from anyone (perhaps their ancestors of antiquity "stole" it, but really, that was a very long time ago), and a group of people come in and expelled them from it. Does it really matter if the term "Palestinian" is a recent construct? In any case, the Palestinian identity became very important after they were expelled, just as the term "American Indian" or "Native American" became important after the Indians were overrun. ("Indians," after all, did not have a unifying identity before Europeans arrived, just as the Palestinians may not have had a unifying identity earlier.)
The second argument is interesting in that it's something the Israeli government will never fully admit to, but is basically what they believe. My question is, is this the way modern human civilization should be run? It may be the way many things turn out, but does that make it ethical or moral? By this logic, there really isn't anything immoral, per se. If you are stronger than those you take advantage of, well, hey, that's just fine.
So here is David's entire argument: I am a sensitive Comanche Indian who supports bulldozing houses, killing innocent children, and expelling millions of people, because they are not really people, and if I am bigger and stronger than you, I can do whatever I want and you can just go to hell.
the sensitive comanche is probably no comanche at all. indians didn't use suicide bombs against the settlers, but if you'll recall their "savage" tactics of killing women and children along with the men, since a colonialist is a colonialist and a thief is a thief. white men hanged people for stealing horses... and when the very land under your feet is being taken, it is "ghastly" to kill?
i'll bet Crazy Horse wouldn't have been against strapping a bomb to his guts and blowing it in DC. the palestinians aren't the comanches --- but where are the great comanche people now? the Palestinians are still in their struggle, unwilling to be swept into history like some American Indian tribe. may the Palestinians conquer and own what was taken from them!
allahu akhbar!
"Palestinian Arabs are not indigenous to Palestine. They are leftover Arabs, residual of another age. Knowing Arab history is vital to understanding the situation in the Middle East. (Joan Peters’ From Time Immemorial (1984) is a ‘must read’ on this subject.) "
Joan Peters' book is little better than fiction. It was widely promoted among American Zionists, but found no other audience. And it's acolades didn't last. Norman Finkelstein, professor of Political Science at Depaul University, debunked her mythmaking in "Image and Reality in the Israel Palestine Conflict." (This book is available on Verso.)
For anyone interested in how this genocidal logic plays out, merely look at what's happened in Jenin. Oh yeah, the Israelis were secretly sending out the bodies of the killed to be buried in mass graves inside military zones. But there can't have been a massacre because Palestinians aren't even Palestinians. Meaning, these people who lived here before all the European Jews with guns poured in under British sponsorship can't be trusted because they don't even know who they are. We know who they are: terrorists.
The people who are trying to get their land back are terrorists. The people who are killing thousands of Palestinians and have made a career of massacres (that is Sharon) and shooting over 20,000 in the last two years are merely being slandered by Arabs who developed some strange need to kill Jews around 1948 WHEN JEWS STOLE THEIR LAND.
I don't even know why I argue this shit. Trying to say that all people deserve basic respect isn't a debating point. It's what we should be starting from. But I guess that's why some people have to go to war. Colonialism as practiced by the Israelis isn't about universal values. It's about "Fuck you, gimme, or I'll kill you and destroy your house."