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Indybay Feature
WEF Protest: The Spectacle of San Francisco Resistance!
This is a rant I had to get off my chest about the demonstration I went to in San Francisco tonight.
For all the whining and moaning that goes on at SF IMC about ISO and neo-Stalinist groups acting like authoritarians at demos, I wanted to comment on what I saw tonight at the anti-WEF demo. I saw repeated negotiations with the cops by supposed "demo negotiators" who assume to speak for everyone there. I saw several punky-looking people telling people to get out of lanes on the road per a request by SFPD. I saw someone yelled at for even saying "class war" instead of "NO WAR," the mantra of liberal peace groups. I didn't think anarchists were "against war" ... I thought they were against US military aggression, but not war ... after all, the infamous Spanish Anarchists were involved in a WAR, a war against fascism and capitalism and oppression. The Russian anarchists were also involved in wars. I thought anarchists and other anti-capitalists understood that class war is what we should be doing, not begging for scraps from a violent system which doesnt give a fuck about us. I was further confused when we arrived at the Bank, only to witness the unfurling of enormous American flags. I guess we will just have to depend on our European comrades to stand strong against capitalist hegemony, who understand the difference between organized resistance and being a part of a liberal, left-wing capitalist spectacle.
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What I witnessed tonight at the WEF protest and at every protest that I have been to in the Bay area is something of a joke for the most part. The "punks" collaborating with the police trying to keep us in line so that we don't cause a problem with the order of everyday life is nothing less than shocking. Where is the sincerity in the movement? The scene here seems to me like a bunch of kids who are feeling the nostilgia of the hippie shit from the 60's , who don't really care at all about whats going on around them. The scene here is exactly that, a scene. This world is too motherfucking depressing for shit like that. A protest can be fun, hanging out with your friends and yelling letting out your frustration, but we all have to remember that it is also a serious thing. People are dying while punks in SF help the police out at marches. Fucked!
The Peace Movement and Anti-Capitalist Movement is really a reaction to there not being an event that dictates how the counter-culture is programmed to react.
Since there is no Charlie Manson waging war against the "pigs" anymore, nor is there a large pro-communist group encouraging wholesale slaughter of innocents, these two movements have to invent issues that do not exist. They need to fit in, to feel cool; and the overwhelming drive for conformity has created an orthodoxy of unreason. "Stop capitalism because old rich dudes like it, and we hate people are not like us," should really be your war cry.
Since there is no Charlie Manson waging war against the "pigs" anymore, nor is there a large pro-communist group encouraging wholesale slaughter of innocents, these two movements have to invent issues that do not exist. They need to fit in, to feel cool; and the overwhelming drive for conformity has created an orthodoxy of unreason. "Stop capitalism because old rich dudes like it, and we hate people are not like us," should really be your war cry.
Anne, just goes to show that you have absolutely no idea about what is going on in the world. 5,000 children a month die in Iraq because of sanctions, almost that many have died in Afghanistan because of the idiotic "war on terrorism" that has failed to capture Osama or anyone else who is culpable. Maybe those kids don't know how to articulate what they are upset about, but they know why they are upset.
This is not about conformity, or capitalism per se, although this "war" is mainly about a pipeline to the oil reserves in the Caspian Sea. I could go on for hours about the problems your old rich dudes make for the poor and the ever-shrinking middle classes. Pretty soon they won't have anyone to sell their crap to because they are so fond of pumping their quarterly earnings reports by limiting the benefits of working people or eliminating jobs. It's going to get bad enough that the middle class will become the people on the streets. You should be stopping this instead of sticking up for it. For crying out loud, give up the corporat media fix find out what's going on before you make inane and baseless comments.
This is not about conformity, or capitalism per se, although this "war" is mainly about a pipeline to the oil reserves in the Caspian Sea. I could go on for hours about the problems your old rich dudes make for the poor and the ever-shrinking middle classes. Pretty soon they won't have anyone to sell their crap to because they are so fond of pumping their quarterly earnings reports by limiting the benefits of working people or eliminating jobs. It's going to get bad enough that the middle class will become the people on the streets. You should be stopping this instead of sticking up for it. For crying out loud, give up the corporat media fix find out what's going on before you make inane and baseless comments.
Demonstrations are best held at noon and on weekends. At least it was on a Saturday, 2/2. This 6 p.m. demonstration was guaranteed to be a low turnout and filled with people whose politics are a little strange to say the least. Peaceniks are not flag-wavers. Further, the red flag is the workers' flag; all national flags are the bosses' flags. I strongly urge all reds to carry red flags at demonstrations, as is done all over the world.
A noontime demonstration could have and should have been coordinated with the picketline at Macy's to protest the firing of a Palestinian woman, held on Saturday, Feb 2 at noon. KPFA reported 75 people turned out for that demonstration. It is imperative that the peace movement be as closely connected to labor as possible as the warmongers in the White House are targeting the workingclass all around the world, and especially right here at home, as the economy is declining, and they fear a serious fightback. This writer does not attend night time demonstrations, and clearly by the low turnout, neither do most other people. There should have been and would have been thousands of people if it had been a noontime demonstration.
As to "hippie shit" of the 1960s, there would be no movement of any kind today if there were no "hippie shit" in the 1960s. Before 1964, most of the demonstrations were civil rights demonstrations in support of the integration struggles in the South. We had an anti-nuclear peace movement here in San Francisco at that time. In fact, San Francisco has always had a strong peace movement because labor is comparatively stronger here, although there is vast room for improvement. Anarchists are generally referrred to as "hippie shit," so I suggest every one just drop that term as it is a pejorative of the ruling class against everyone who does not support their anti-labor, credit-card buying program.
No war but the class war. No blood for oil. For 100% union labor. Support rent control. Money for jobs, healthcare, social services, housing, education, public transporation, culture; not for war. Abolish capitalism; we will have and build socialism.
A noontime demonstration could have and should have been coordinated with the picketline at Macy's to protest the firing of a Palestinian woman, held on Saturday, Feb 2 at noon. KPFA reported 75 people turned out for that demonstration. It is imperative that the peace movement be as closely connected to labor as possible as the warmongers in the White House are targeting the workingclass all around the world, and especially right here at home, as the economy is declining, and they fear a serious fightback. This writer does not attend night time demonstrations, and clearly by the low turnout, neither do most other people. There should have been and would have been thousands of people if it had been a noontime demonstration.
As to "hippie shit" of the 1960s, there would be no movement of any kind today if there were no "hippie shit" in the 1960s. Before 1964, most of the demonstrations were civil rights demonstrations in support of the integration struggles in the South. We had an anti-nuclear peace movement here in San Francisco at that time. In fact, San Francisco has always had a strong peace movement because labor is comparatively stronger here, although there is vast room for improvement. Anarchists are generally referrred to as "hippie shit," so I suggest every one just drop that term as it is a pejorative of the ruling class against everyone who does not support their anti-labor, credit-card buying program.
No war but the class war. No blood for oil. For 100% union labor. Support rent control. Money for jobs, healthcare, social services, housing, education, public transporation, culture; not for war. Abolish capitalism; we will have and build socialism.
I'd really like to feel positive about what the protesting street was like last night, but I woke up feeling that I live in a pathetic little box were people insist that all the walls be made of mirrors.
This "movement" has been taken over by a ubiquitous handful of wanna be's. I saw way too much SELF-serving, SELF-indulgent and SELF-referential sameness that does not seem to be smart or brave enough to move beyond itself. It ends up feeling like an excuse for a street party, an excuse for a couple of self promoting bands to be made to feel important and righteous by their look-alike friends.
Are we just in solidarity with ourselves? Seems like it.
The seriousness of the shit we are supposedly "protesting" deserves way more than that.
HOUSING. HEALTHCARE. EMPOLYMENT. END CAPITALISM. RESIST EVERYTHING CORPORATE. END ALL ABUSE OF POWER.
This "movement" has been taken over by a ubiquitous handful of wanna be's. I saw way too much SELF-serving, SELF-indulgent and SELF-referential sameness that does not seem to be smart or brave enough to move beyond itself. It ends up feeling like an excuse for a street party, an excuse for a couple of self promoting bands to be made to feel important and righteous by their look-alike friends.
Are we just in solidarity with ourselves? Seems like it.
The seriousness of the shit we are supposedly "protesting" deserves way more than that.
HOUSING. HEALTHCARE. EMPOLYMENT. END CAPITALISM. RESIST EVERYTHING CORPORATE. END ALL ABUSE OF POWER.
This demo is interesting in particular because it was organized by Bay Area anarchists, who always seem to have something to say about other people's demonstrations.
My vision of a demonstration organizing is a mass outreach effort so that tons of people know about it, and a large organizing pool. The more people who organize it, the more chance you have of catching things like, maybe we shouldn't hang huge American flags off a building across from a Muslim organization, who probably wondered if the group wasn't a bunch of nationalists come to burn down their building.
Also, punk music and techno music is terribly, terribly white. How hard is it to have some rap or hip hop at these demos?
My vision of a demonstration organizing is a mass outreach effort so that tons of people know about it, and a large organizing pool. The more people who organize it, the more chance you have of catching things like, maybe we shouldn't hang huge American flags off a building across from a Muslim organization, who probably wondered if the group wasn't a bunch of nationalists come to burn down their building.
Also, punk music and techno music is terribly, terribly white. How hard is it to have some rap or hip hop at these demos?
I'll tell you right fucking now what is wrong with Bay Area anarchists. What is wrong is that they are a social club with absolutely no interest in political organization, they are only interested in fucking each other, giggling about it and holding parties. For Bay Area anarchists, there is not an on-going resistance or a struggle or a goal to work for. It is a fucking lifestylist game to pass the time and fit into a cool social club. And, it seems to me, anyone who does want to be more politically minded and not play their stupid games is treated like shit.
If it wasnt for the Indymedia news sheet at the demo last night, would anyone have fucking had any information for people about what the WEF is? About what is going on in NYC? etc, etc, etc.
I would also agree that "NO WAR" is a dubious message from anarchists. Sounds more like something a liberal group would say.
I will finish with one observation: the RCP and ISO members who were there were passing out flyers for a demo they are holding a couple weeks in advance. They had newspapers and magazines from here and elsewhere to give and sell to people. (Otherwise, I saw only 1 anarchist publication last night, and I saw Indymedia news flyers.) Believe it or not, if you want things to come off successfully, you have to do a few things:
1) Work with the community of activists and like-minded people in the Bay Area,
2) Organize, delegate responsibility, give flyers out to people at events you might be currently too "cool" to go to
3) Give up control of the demo. This is not your party and you cant cry if you want to.
If it wasnt for the Indymedia news sheet at the demo last night, would anyone have fucking had any information for people about what the WEF is? About what is going on in NYC? etc, etc, etc.
I would also agree that "NO WAR" is a dubious message from anarchists. Sounds more like something a liberal group would say.
I will finish with one observation: the RCP and ISO members who were there were passing out flyers for a demo they are holding a couple weeks in advance. They had newspapers and magazines from here and elsewhere to give and sell to people. (Otherwise, I saw only 1 anarchist publication last night, and I saw Indymedia news flyers.) Believe it or not, if you want things to come off successfully, you have to do a few things:
1) Work with the community of activists and like-minded people in the Bay Area,
2) Organize, delegate responsibility, give flyers out to people at events you might be currently too "cool" to go to
3) Give up control of the demo. This is not your party and you cant cry if you want to.
Just to inform those of you who have no idea of how last night's protest was put together:
There is currently a large cluster of affinity groups from the bay area that has been putting on mass demonstrations. The fact is, the cluster decided as a whole in advance that they did NOT want to do anything in the bay area to protest the WEF mostly because most of them were flying to New York for the big one. So what happened was that there were two affinity groups who decided at the last minute that they still wanted to organize a local solidarity protest anyway even if no one else wanted to. So while I would agree a lot more could have been done to make it more of a diverse turnout, you should keep in mind that it was a small group of people who decided to take it upon themselves to make it happen when no one else did.
By the way, I would suggest to avoid making sweeping generalization of a whole segment of a population based on what some punk kid did last night or what some alleged anarchists did, as some did on the above posts, if you don't want to sound like a complete idiot.
There is currently a large cluster of affinity groups from the bay area that has been putting on mass demonstrations. The fact is, the cluster decided as a whole in advance that they did NOT want to do anything in the bay area to protest the WEF mostly because most of them were flying to New York for the big one. So what happened was that there were two affinity groups who decided at the last minute that they still wanted to organize a local solidarity protest anyway even if no one else wanted to. So while I would agree a lot more could have been done to make it more of a diverse turnout, you should keep in mind that it was a small group of people who decided to take it upon themselves to make it happen when no one else did.
By the way, I would suggest to avoid making sweeping generalization of a whole segment of a population based on what some punk kid did last night or what some alleged anarchists did, as some did on the above posts, if you don't want to sound like a complete idiot.
This event was not advertised enough, nor was it properly organized. It was nice, however, to see all the punks out in full force!
Marching around the mostly empty streets of the Tenderloin at night is utterly useless. Shouldn't we have marched through North Beach during rush hour?
The left in America is truly dead, and San Francisco is its coffin. It will remain dead until the multitude of silly little leftist groups in SF can put aside their PETTY differences and learn to work together for a common cause. Don't get me wrong...I'm not asking people to abandon their heartfelt beliefs and their pet political theories. But I don't think differing opinions on the nature of the Bolshevik revolution should prevent people from being able to work together.
I consider myself to be an ardent Marxist, but I am truly disgusted by the trite sectarianism I've discovered here. I have yet to find a Marxist group in SF that is actually interested in serving as a catalyst for social change. Instead, they all seem to spend their time attacking each other, bitching to non-members about the evil ISO, and competing to sell their sad little rags to the same 50 people who show up at at every demonstration.
The Maoist Internationalist Movement's idea that the American working class is actually a "labor aristocracy" seems to make more sense at each demonstration I attend (and no, I'm not a member). Unlike the truly oppressed people of the third world, we Americans have the luxury of sitting around on our fat asses and bitching about everyone else's ideology instead of acutally working together for the common good.
Capitalism has succeeded in killing the left in this country because it has made us rich enough to be able to dismiss one another due to minor doctrinal differences.
Fidel Castro and Che Guevara worked with people they disagreed with in order to oust Batista and bring about the Cuban Revolution. It CAN be done.
Marching around the mostly empty streets of the Tenderloin at night is utterly useless. Shouldn't we have marched through North Beach during rush hour?
The left in America is truly dead, and San Francisco is its coffin. It will remain dead until the multitude of silly little leftist groups in SF can put aside their PETTY differences and learn to work together for a common cause. Don't get me wrong...I'm not asking people to abandon their heartfelt beliefs and their pet political theories. But I don't think differing opinions on the nature of the Bolshevik revolution should prevent people from being able to work together.
I consider myself to be an ardent Marxist, but I am truly disgusted by the trite sectarianism I've discovered here. I have yet to find a Marxist group in SF that is actually interested in serving as a catalyst for social change. Instead, they all seem to spend their time attacking each other, bitching to non-members about the evil ISO, and competing to sell their sad little rags to the same 50 people who show up at at every demonstration.
The Maoist Internationalist Movement's idea that the American working class is actually a "labor aristocracy" seems to make more sense at each demonstration I attend (and no, I'm not a member). Unlike the truly oppressed people of the third world, we Americans have the luxury of sitting around on our fat asses and bitching about everyone else's ideology instead of acutally working together for the common good.
Capitalism has succeeded in killing the left in this country because it has made us rich enough to be able to dismiss one another due to minor doctrinal differences.
Fidel Castro and Che Guevara worked with people they disagreed with in order to oust Batista and bring about the Cuban Revolution. It CAN be done.
thank you A-N-A-R-C-H-I-S-T.
From what I've seen in the past ten years, anarchism is a moniker more and more that is taken on by those who wish not to be taken seriously. I say this as someone who has derived much from the writings of people like Goldman, Bookchin, Magon etc. Note how the mass media treats the anarchists -- like their own wayward children; in other words, not a threat.
When the puppets came on the scene -- what, five years ago? -- I thought they were colorful and a nice addition and counterpoint to the greyness of the Sparts. But now I'm so fucking tired of them. They aren't resonant of anything profound, and I sense that the point of them is to indicate that we're just a bunch of hokey (white middle-class) kids that don't like mean things in this world. The direction that MayDay celebrations has taken is a compete embarressment -- with the Maypole and puppets and face painting and vague slogans about saving the earth. Ugh!
From what I've seen in the past ten years, anarchism is a moniker more and more that is taken on by those who wish not to be taken seriously. I say this as someone who has derived much from the writings of people like Goldman, Bookchin, Magon etc. Note how the mass media treats the anarchists -- like their own wayward children; in other words, not a threat.
When the puppets came on the scene -- what, five years ago? -- I thought they were colorful and a nice addition and counterpoint to the greyness of the Sparts. But now I'm so fucking tired of them. They aren't resonant of anything profound, and I sense that the point of them is to indicate that we're just a bunch of hokey (white middle-class) kids that don't like mean things in this world. The direction that MayDay celebrations has taken is a compete embarressment -- with the Maypole and puppets and face painting and vague slogans about saving the earth. Ugh!
Wat's up Anne? You hold up Charles Manson, a neo-nazi as demented as the Hitler he emulates as your pig-killing hero? Here's a better suggestion-how about Huey P. Newton, founder of the Black Panther Party? He had the guts to get right in the face of the pigs and the fascist system they defend-Charles Manson, on the other hand, IS a fascist! Let that demented white supremacist piece of s**t rot in prison!
you don't like the puppets. a couple years ago at WTO Seattle I was having some anti-puppet feelings because they were often coming across as a forced and essentially humorless attempt to say "hey, look how festive we are", but lately I am more pro-puppet, because even if the same ones are carried to all the protests, they do make things look a lot happier, and the alternative usually is coming across as a bunch of angry people.
Mayday without maypoles? I think SF mayday is great. the holiday of mayday has always been a celebration, and not an excuse for just another march - except in mandatory state parades in the soviet union or something.
With regards to policing of events, I think it is a somewhat complex issue. I don't think that complete diversity of tactics, or the opposite of this, is appropriate for every event.
I'll explain listing some of my own anecdotes: around 1994 when I was 18 or so, everyone was really angry at newt gingrich, and there was a big rally of 3000 people to express discontent outside of his hotel where he was giving a speech. there were a bunch of peacekeepers who were making really stupid decisions, keeping us all away from the small group of pro-newt people who some people wanted to go debate with, and they basically herded us into the covered parking garage of the hotel so we'd be out of the lane of traffic and had us sit down in a really compact formation and sing chants and songs. I walked away and saw Newt enter the opposite side of the hotel where he didn't even see any protesters at all, and the news reported equal numbers of pro and anti- people there which wasn't true at all. If we had voted, I'm sure most people wouldn't have planned it this way.
My friend Cory lives in NY and went to the WEF yesterday, and lacking a computer he had only heard of the IAC/answer rally, and was wondering where all the interesting people and anarchist were. There were just loud IAC people angrily screaming about everything into megaphones - from Mumia to abortion. He spent his time talking with some seniors about how lame it all was. He saw some IAC people trying to convince someone to be a security peacekeeper, offering them a vest and describing how to manage people. That is screwed up. But in a similar vein, I have in the past been very annoyed when I was at an event such as a march and certain shrill or unskilled people brought a megaphone and were either badly leading chants, or were just venting - Because the person with a microphone comes across as the leader, and thus I think this person is accountable to those around them. If the people around them generally approve of the job they're doing, they can stay, but if they are misrepresenting the people around them - they really should stop. the IAC anti-war in afghanistan rally 4 months ago in Dolores park was like that. I don't think that the majority of people there approved of the WWP affiliated group leading the event and choosing that route, and thus making it seem as though there were 10,000 people who support the IAC.
Another case of that is in 1991 when I was in high school, a very calm peacenik, unitarian type of crowd was having a candlelight march two days after the Gulf war started. about a dozen people from the Revolutionary Communist party, who believe in instigating the proletariat to start a class war, came with their megaphonesand took over and were violently attacking police on horses, jabbing the horses, and causing several fights. The news stories made it seem as though people who oppose the gulf war are all horse-poking RCP types, and I'm sure that the other people there did not choose to make that message - so in this way their free speech was interfered with, even if it is partially due to the flawed nature of the press.
so to summarize, I think there are some situations where individuals in events should be accountable to the larger group. for instance, I like how the people at the anti-WTO protest in October who wanted to go molest clothes at the GAP decided to split off as a separate group of 20, rather than doing it as part of the larger group. This made it more clear as to who was making this statement.
Mayday without maypoles? I think SF mayday is great. the holiday of mayday has always been a celebration, and not an excuse for just another march - except in mandatory state parades in the soviet union or something.
With regards to policing of events, I think it is a somewhat complex issue. I don't think that complete diversity of tactics, or the opposite of this, is appropriate for every event.
I'll explain listing some of my own anecdotes: around 1994 when I was 18 or so, everyone was really angry at newt gingrich, and there was a big rally of 3000 people to express discontent outside of his hotel where he was giving a speech. there were a bunch of peacekeepers who were making really stupid decisions, keeping us all away from the small group of pro-newt people who some people wanted to go debate with, and they basically herded us into the covered parking garage of the hotel so we'd be out of the lane of traffic and had us sit down in a really compact formation and sing chants and songs. I walked away and saw Newt enter the opposite side of the hotel where he didn't even see any protesters at all, and the news reported equal numbers of pro and anti- people there which wasn't true at all. If we had voted, I'm sure most people wouldn't have planned it this way.
My friend Cory lives in NY and went to the WEF yesterday, and lacking a computer he had only heard of the IAC/answer rally, and was wondering where all the interesting people and anarchist were. There were just loud IAC people angrily screaming about everything into megaphones - from Mumia to abortion. He spent his time talking with some seniors about how lame it all was. He saw some IAC people trying to convince someone to be a security peacekeeper, offering them a vest and describing how to manage people. That is screwed up. But in a similar vein, I have in the past been very annoyed when I was at an event such as a march and certain shrill or unskilled people brought a megaphone and were either badly leading chants, or were just venting - Because the person with a microphone comes across as the leader, and thus I think this person is accountable to those around them. If the people around them generally approve of the job they're doing, they can stay, but if they are misrepresenting the people around them - they really should stop. the IAC anti-war in afghanistan rally 4 months ago in Dolores park was like that. I don't think that the majority of people there approved of the WWP affiliated group leading the event and choosing that route, and thus making it seem as though there were 10,000 people who support the IAC.
Another case of that is in 1991 when I was in high school, a very calm peacenik, unitarian type of crowd was having a candlelight march two days after the Gulf war started. about a dozen people from the Revolutionary Communist party, who believe in instigating the proletariat to start a class war, came with their megaphonesand took over and were violently attacking police on horses, jabbing the horses, and causing several fights. The news stories made it seem as though people who oppose the gulf war are all horse-poking RCP types, and I'm sure that the other people there did not choose to make that message - so in this way their free speech was interfered with, even if it is partially due to the flawed nature of the press.
so to summarize, I think there are some situations where individuals in events should be accountable to the larger group. for instance, I like how the people at the anti-WTO protest in October who wanted to go molest clothes at the GAP decided to split off as a separate group of 20, rather than doing it as part of the larger group. This made it more clear as to who was making this statement.
yea, you actually said what I feel about the puppets better than I did. The puppets per se aren't a problem. They give protests color and catch the attention of people on the streets. Nothing wrong with that.
What I don't like is the cutesy thing that Art and Revolution seems to have perfected. I think it is born from a sense that people are put off by "politics" and we need to come at them with "culture" and "art" in order to make radical politics palatable. But in the process, the radical politics, as far as I can tell, are diminished. It's also sort of condescending. I've been to demos where the puppets and the anarcho "we're so free and happy and polymorphous" act seems totally contrived and forced and sometimes even inappropriate given the nature of the issues being addressed and fought. We needn't put on an act -- whether it's the sneering militant or the freaky artsy thing. What's important is to be real, and address people -- particularly poor and working class people -- without condescension or elitism.
Often anarchists venerate "being free" in a manner that undermines serious and systematic efforts. A-N-A-R-C-H-I-S-T makes a really good point about having and distributing information to those along the march route. But this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Also, I want to take back that cheap shot about the puppeteers being white and middle class. Many are white -- whatever. And my guess is that most work for a living and aren't living off the labor of others.
What I don't like is the cutesy thing that Art and Revolution seems to have perfected. I think it is born from a sense that people are put off by "politics" and we need to come at them with "culture" and "art" in order to make radical politics palatable. But in the process, the radical politics, as far as I can tell, are diminished. It's also sort of condescending. I've been to demos where the puppets and the anarcho "we're so free and happy and polymorphous" act seems totally contrived and forced and sometimes even inappropriate given the nature of the issues being addressed and fought. We needn't put on an act -- whether it's the sneering militant or the freaky artsy thing. What's important is to be real, and address people -- particularly poor and working class people -- without condescension or elitism.
Often anarchists venerate "being free" in a manner that undermines serious and systematic efforts. A-N-A-R-C-H-I-S-T makes a really good point about having and distributing information to those along the march route. But this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Also, I want to take back that cheap shot about the puppeteers being white and middle class. Many are white -- whatever. And my guess is that most work for a living and aren't living off the labor of others.
I am the cheese.
I came down from the Sacramento area (I'm starting a Sac IMC) looking for the anti-WEF solidarity demo, but I couldn't find it, so I joined an anti-war demo instead. The cries of "we don't want your racist war!" were rather entertaining, I didn't know Bush was so racist against Arabs (he does such good business with the Bin Ladens and the Saudi royals). And don't get me started on "fuck the Hilton!"
I found out about the demo through the SF Indymedia calendar; I was headed to SF anyhow and wanted to know if anything was going on in solidarity with the WEF demonstrations. In retrospect, there wasn't much. I was happy to see the Indymedia fliers, but I was confused as to who organized the event, there didn't seem to be any sort of ideology behind it. It would be cool to have see a black flag or something that the anarchists could rally behind, as far as I could tell the whole thing was organized and led by the RCP.
I found out about the demo through the SF Indymedia calendar; I was headed to SF anyhow and wanted to know if anything was going on in solidarity with the WEF demonstrations. In retrospect, there wasn't much. I was happy to see the Indymedia fliers, but I was confused as to who organized the event, there didn't seem to be any sort of ideology behind it. It would be cool to have see a black flag or something that the anarchists could rally behind, as far as I could tell the whole thing was organized and led by the RCP.
How many protesters drive.
Take over the streets. Be different. Don't drive, ride your bike. Boycott OIL.
http://www.danenet.wicip.org/bcp/carz.html
Last friday of every month. Same bike time, same bike place.
http://criticalmasshub.com/
Take over the streets. Be different. Don't drive, ride your bike. Boycott OIL.
http://www.danenet.wicip.org/bcp/carz.html
Last friday of every month. Same bike time, same bike place.
http://criticalmasshub.com/
Hi, my power has been out all day thanks to the gangster PG&E monopoly and so I am just now catching up on all the discussion about last night's demonstration... I have personal experience about how this event was organized, and I do think there were mistakes made in being forthcoming, being open to people who are not normally from the same social circle and also, general structurelessness, which can sometimes be described as authoritarian.
However, I don't think people are lashing out specifically at the people who were organizing this demo. Instead, I think people are voicing a frustration that has to do with Bay Area anarchism in general, which is that it has a tendency towards anti-organization and sectarianism.
The biggest frustration that I have with this is that many people I have talked to do not even see this as a problem, or they don't have a sense of urgency about changing things. It has been hard to find people who will discuss strategy or tactics or organizing. That's my 2 cents.
However, I don't think people are lashing out specifically at the people who were organizing this demo. Instead, I think people are voicing a frustration that has to do with Bay Area anarchism in general, which is that it has a tendency towards anti-organization and sectarianism.
The biggest frustration that I have with this is that many people I have talked to do not even see this as a problem, or they don't have a sense of urgency about changing things. It has been hard to find people who will discuss strategy or tactics or organizing. That's my 2 cents.
Geeeeez louiiiiise, how 'bout that for a long list of complaints!
Let's not lose sight of the fact that last night's demo had some really impressive elements to it. Having a show in a pigeon pooped bank pulpit was rather spiffy.
I was sad that the potential of so many punks in the street wasn't realized, but that
and I was unhappy to be shepherded around and told where to stand how to act
etc.
Yes it would be nice for more anarchists to be energized to do outreach, but
it's not as if there were no signs and banners, and a little effort awarded me not
just the one IMC flyer but six flyers, one of which was a day-of flyer about the WEF
evidently by the organizers.
The demo could have been more militant and Saturday night is your worst
possible time to get corporate media and I wish the bands played in the center
of the street and a lot more people were dancing a lot more wildly and that
clear messages were strongly communicated but hey,
CAN YOU NAME ANYTHING BETTER THAT WAS GOING ON LAST NIGHT?
WOULD YOU PLEASE ORGANIZE SOMETHING BETTER IF YOU KNOW HOW?
DO YOU HAVE A PROPOSAL BEYOND CRITICISMS ON IMC?
WILL YOU SPEAK ABOUT THESE IDEAS AT THE NEXT DEMO, SO THOSE
THAT ARE THERE WILL HEAR THEM?
thassit.
oh i forgot let's all fuck and giggle about it and hold parties where we hate
each other for sectarian reasons wahoo! and even the puppets can humpus!
thank you for all the sincere comments above yes we live in the gilded cage.
Let's not lose sight of the fact that last night's demo had some really impressive elements to it. Having a show in a pigeon pooped bank pulpit was rather spiffy.
I was sad that the potential of so many punks in the street wasn't realized, but that
and I was unhappy to be shepherded around and told where to stand how to act
etc.
Yes it would be nice for more anarchists to be energized to do outreach, but
it's not as if there were no signs and banners, and a little effort awarded me not
just the one IMC flyer but six flyers, one of which was a day-of flyer about the WEF
evidently by the organizers.
The demo could have been more militant and Saturday night is your worst
possible time to get corporate media and I wish the bands played in the center
of the street and a lot more people were dancing a lot more wildly and that
clear messages were strongly communicated but hey,
CAN YOU NAME ANYTHING BETTER THAT WAS GOING ON LAST NIGHT?
WOULD YOU PLEASE ORGANIZE SOMETHING BETTER IF YOU KNOW HOW?
DO YOU HAVE A PROPOSAL BEYOND CRITICISMS ON IMC?
WILL YOU SPEAK ABOUT THESE IDEAS AT THE NEXT DEMO, SO THOSE
THAT ARE THERE WILL HEAR THEM?
thassit.
oh i forgot let's all fuck and giggle about it and hold parties where we hate
each other for sectarian reasons wahoo! and even the puppets can humpus!
thank you for all the sincere comments above yes we live in the gilded cage.
hmmm....
well, i have been very active in different groups in SF and am an anarchist. I travel to other places in North America, every where i go i find alot of cool anarchists to hang out with. In SF I can count the number of anarchists i would consider a friend on one hand. is it SF, me or what that it is easier to feel close, solidarity and friendship with anarchists outside of SF than it is in SF?
pondering.....
well, i have been very active in different groups in SF and am an anarchist. I travel to other places in North America, every where i go i find alot of cool anarchists to hang out with. In SF I can count the number of anarchists i would consider a friend on one hand. is it SF, me or what that it is easier to feel close, solidarity and friendship with anarchists outside of SF than it is in SF?
pondering.....
That "day-of-flyer" mentioned above was not from the organizers, it was from Indymedia!!!
In answer to the "travelling man" ... everywhere I have been in North America has had a cool anarchist community which is not really a social scene, per se. There are aspects to that, but SF Bay Area takes the cake. I have been to Montreal, Quebec City, New York City, Atlanta, Indianapolis and Austin. Everywhere, there are above-ground anarchist organizations which are open to "outsiders" who may or may not be cool enuf to know.
I was one of the small group who helped to organize the anti-wef/anti-war demo that became a concert Sat. Night.
First of all to the person from Sacramento, i think you are mistaken when you say that an anti-wef demo turned into an anti-war demp. 1. The event was always planned and annnouced as both anti-WEF and anti-war. 2. How can you differentiate between the two arms of the capitalist system-i.e. the military and the economic? The WEF is the conglomeration of the ruling class especially the capitalists themselves. Capitalism couldn't exist without the iron fist of the military machine, a major part of the state itself.
Beyond that there are many critiques of last night that have been made. I believe that people working on the event and others who showed up should have an evaluation meeting where a lot of the serious critiques can be discussed. I have some of my own as well.
I also feel that there were unserious criticisms like the ones that made us damned if were and damned if we weren't of wherther we shoudl have been more or less like the marxists. Marxists like most people are invited to every demonstration i've ever been to as long as they don't try to control the demo. No Marxist did. For anyone to believe that this was an RCP demo because they wee there at the beginning of the march is absurd. By the way it shoud be noted that none of the Marxists who showed up at the beginning went along witht he march and ended at the empty former bank-not the Left Party, not the RCP, not the Spartacist League. Nevertheless, i think that it is a reality of the post- Seattle world, where anarchists have been on the cutting edge of the movement, that marxists will try in their very haphazard way to glom onto our activities. It shows our success.
I especially liked the march, and the concert being in the entryway of the former Hibernia Bank, the bank where Patty Hearst's SLA robbery took place.
I do believe that our movement needs all kinds of protests, with riots and parties and picketlines and all other creative ideas in between. A week of all kind of activities including the ones listed above, and others, is being planned for the period beginning April 26 and ending on MayDay called the Anti-Captalist Covergence Alternative Festivals of Resistance. We hope that people will come from
the entire west coast. We hope that many people will get involved in helping to put together these activites. To that end we are having a meeting on February 10 at 5pm at the Long Haul, 3124 Shattuck Ave. in Berkeley, followed by a dinner at the weekly cafe night there.
First of all to the person from Sacramento, i think you are mistaken when you say that an anti-wef demo turned into an anti-war demp. 1. The event was always planned and annnouced as both anti-WEF and anti-war. 2. How can you differentiate between the two arms of the capitalist system-i.e. the military and the economic? The WEF is the conglomeration of the ruling class especially the capitalists themselves. Capitalism couldn't exist without the iron fist of the military machine, a major part of the state itself.
Beyond that there are many critiques of last night that have been made. I believe that people working on the event and others who showed up should have an evaluation meeting where a lot of the serious critiques can be discussed. I have some of my own as well.
I also feel that there were unserious criticisms like the ones that made us damned if were and damned if we weren't of wherther we shoudl have been more or less like the marxists. Marxists like most people are invited to every demonstration i've ever been to as long as they don't try to control the demo. No Marxist did. For anyone to believe that this was an RCP demo because they wee there at the beginning of the march is absurd. By the way it shoud be noted that none of the Marxists who showed up at the beginning went along witht he march and ended at the empty former bank-not the Left Party, not the RCP, not the Spartacist League. Nevertheless, i think that it is a reality of the post- Seattle world, where anarchists have been on the cutting edge of the movement, that marxists will try in their very haphazard way to glom onto our activities. It shows our success.
I especially liked the march, and the concert being in the entryway of the former Hibernia Bank, the bank where Patty Hearst's SLA robbery took place.
I do believe that our movement needs all kinds of protests, with riots and parties and picketlines and all other creative ideas in between. A week of all kind of activities including the ones listed above, and others, is being planned for the period beginning April 26 and ending on MayDay called the Anti-Captalist Covergence Alternative Festivals of Resistance. We hope that people will come from
the entire west coast. We hope that many people will get involved in helping to put together these activites. To that end we are having a meeting on February 10 at 5pm at the Long Haul, 3124 Shattuck Ave. in Berkeley, followed by a dinner at the weekly cafe night there.
I haven't been to any demos since October 7th (first day of US bombing) because I'm tired of them. They seem formulaic. I went to this one because it seemed very important to provide some solidarity to protests in NYC and because I was told "it sounds like it'll be fun". And it was, overall.
I enjoyed it, it was a chill protest and that has its place. Someone pointed out that the WEF "set a trap" for the movement by having the meeting in NYC, and I think the protestors in NYC did a really good job of NOT falling into the trap (however tame the protests may have thus become). I think it was important and good that this particular SF protest wasn't overly militant - but other ones should be.
I REALLY want to hear something other than punk rock, though.
BTW, yes it ended across the street from an Islamic center, but the really cool thing was that a bunch of kids were there, pressed up against the windows, jockeying for attention and views, and sometimes they and the crowd waved at each other.
I enjoyed it, it was a chill protest and that has its place. Someone pointed out that the WEF "set a trap" for the movement by having the meeting in NYC, and I think the protestors in NYC did a really good job of NOT falling into the trap (however tame the protests may have thus become). I think it was important and good that this particular SF protest wasn't overly militant - but other ones should be.
I REALLY want to hear something other than punk rock, though.
BTW, yes it ended across the street from an Islamic center, but the really cool thing was that a bunch of kids were there, pressed up against the windows, jockeying for attention and views, and sometimes they and the crowd waved at each other.
At the bottom of the e-mail announcements I received about the SF WEF protests there was a phone number. Over the course of weeks, a friend and I called the number several times to try and find out about the organizing, i.e., meetings, etc. Not one of our phone calls was returned. What's up with that? Is there a more effective way to sabotage an event?
For more information:
http://www.solddowntheriver.org
There are two major issues with what happened Saturday night, what happened and how it was organized.
The demo seemed to me to be more of a fun in the street punk concert than a protest. There wasnt much attempt to get a message across (about the war, WEF or capitalism) and the messages on the main banner drop seemed very very vague. I still cant figure out what the "Donnie and Marie" banner meant and it seemed a little proAmercian/proWar due to all the Amercian flags on it. The giant squid looked cool, but made the protests look a little like a bad 70s rock concert. There is nothing wrong with punk rock concerts, but I would have hoped free outdoor concerts happened all the time in SF rather than being somehow seen as a radical statement.
If people didnt like the protest why didnt they organize their own? Because many groups in the Bay Area heard hundreds of complaints about the IAC and Townhall protests and assumed that it was worth giving the anarchists a chance to show what they could organize.
The big concern I have with the protest is how it were organzed. From what I could see of the process, it was done in a very authoritarian fashion behind closed doors with a lot less public input than either the IAC or Townhall protests. There were no public announcements about where meetings were held and from the people I know who went to meetings, word was that it was a closed process and decission making was carried out by some elite collective that claimed it had to run the show for security reasons.
Many of the issues people had with the protests would have been cleared up if the decission making process had been more open. If messages on the banner drops seemed unclear or too proAmerican, that could have been addressed at meetings by those with these concerns. If the choice of all punk music seemed to make the protests seem more like a scene than a protest, that could have been addressed. If the location and time seemed inconvenient and to have bad visibility, that could have been addressed. But no issues can be addressed when self appointed leaders highjack a protest.
Sorry to rant, but before Saturday I had a little respect for all the people posting on IMC SF about how the ISO highjacked the antiwar demos. That Saturday demo made me lose all respect for any anarchist concerns about antiauthoritarianism. I am even starting to wonder what the motives of those who disrupted the antiwar movement really were; was it a real concern about process in progrssive groups or was it a desire to be in charge and water down the messages to something that looked liked a promo for a bunch of punk bands.
The demo seemed to me to be more of a fun in the street punk concert than a protest. There wasnt much attempt to get a message across (about the war, WEF or capitalism) and the messages on the main banner drop seemed very very vague. I still cant figure out what the "Donnie and Marie" banner meant and it seemed a little proAmercian/proWar due to all the Amercian flags on it. The giant squid looked cool, but made the protests look a little like a bad 70s rock concert. There is nothing wrong with punk rock concerts, but I would have hoped free outdoor concerts happened all the time in SF rather than being somehow seen as a radical statement.
If people didnt like the protest why didnt they organize their own? Because many groups in the Bay Area heard hundreds of complaints about the IAC and Townhall protests and assumed that it was worth giving the anarchists a chance to show what they could organize.
The big concern I have with the protest is how it were organzed. From what I could see of the process, it was done in a very authoritarian fashion behind closed doors with a lot less public input than either the IAC or Townhall protests. There were no public announcements about where meetings were held and from the people I know who went to meetings, word was that it was a closed process and decission making was carried out by some elite collective that claimed it had to run the show for security reasons.
Many of the issues people had with the protests would have been cleared up if the decission making process had been more open. If messages on the banner drops seemed unclear or too proAmerican, that could have been addressed at meetings by those with these concerns. If the choice of all punk music seemed to make the protests seem more like a scene than a protest, that could have been addressed. If the location and time seemed inconvenient and to have bad visibility, that could have been addressed. But no issues can be addressed when self appointed leaders highjack a protest.
Sorry to rant, but before Saturday I had a little respect for all the people posting on IMC SF about how the ISO highjacked the antiwar demos. That Saturday demo made me lose all respect for any anarchist concerns about antiauthoritarianism. I am even starting to wonder what the motives of those who disrupted the antiwar movement really were; was it a real concern about process in progrssive groups or was it a desire to be in charge and water down the messages to something that looked liked a promo for a bunch of punk bands.
so much bitching! "i didn't like the music.." 'it was on a saturday night..." "bay area anarchists suck..." why not go ahead and organize your own stuff, or a new open anarchist organization? it seems to me it's a lot of the same people organizing a lot of the in-the-street demos, and you know, it would be nice if other people organized some actions sometime.
i didn't go to the sf action. i'm in ny. but i do know that it's nice to see creative stuff like a punk show at a bank rather than the same old marching and yelling.
and as for techno music being "terribly, terribly white," um, who do you think created techno and continues to make a lot of great techno music? ever been to detroit? ever seen a picture of jeff mills, derrick may, jay denham, juan atkins? they're all black. techno was created in detroit, by black americans. and as for people who listen to techno, it's not all white - and there's more colors than black and white...
but regardless, as for saying "how about some hip hop?", hey, maybe you've missed all the hundreds of marches and dolores park rallies w/ hip hop. maybe it's been nice to have something else for a change. nothing wrong w/ hip hop - but personally i think it's been nice to have some different styles of music highlighted these past few years after hearing only folk and hip hop at political actions. diversity's good...
this just reminds me why sometimes i hate doing political organizing. you try to do something creative and people just jump all over you. so much for mutual aid and cooperation.
i'm not saying that there should be no criticism. however, why don't we at least give props when people do something and say something we liked about the action as well as something we thought could be improved?
i actually wonder if the imc is an appropriate forum for these discussions anyway. not that i can think of a better one right now, though.
i didn't go to the sf action. i'm in ny. but i do know that it's nice to see creative stuff like a punk show at a bank rather than the same old marching and yelling.
and as for techno music being "terribly, terribly white," um, who do you think created techno and continues to make a lot of great techno music? ever been to detroit? ever seen a picture of jeff mills, derrick may, jay denham, juan atkins? they're all black. techno was created in detroit, by black americans. and as for people who listen to techno, it's not all white - and there's more colors than black and white...
but regardless, as for saying "how about some hip hop?", hey, maybe you've missed all the hundreds of marches and dolores park rallies w/ hip hop. maybe it's been nice to have something else for a change. nothing wrong w/ hip hop - but personally i think it's been nice to have some different styles of music highlighted these past few years after hearing only folk and hip hop at political actions. diversity's good...
this just reminds me why sometimes i hate doing political organizing. you try to do something creative and people just jump all over you. so much for mutual aid and cooperation.
i'm not saying that there should be no criticism. however, why don't we at least give props when people do something and say something we liked about the action as well as something we thought could be improved?
i actually wonder if the imc is an appropriate forum for these discussions anyway. not that i can think of a better one right now, though.
"techno was created in detroit, by black americans."
Yeah and rock and roll was created by black americans but the rolling stones are still white as ever.
Yeah and rock and roll was created by black americans but the rolling stones are still white as ever.
"why not go ahead and organize your own stuff, or a new open anarchist organization? it seems to me it's a lot of the same people organizing a lot of the in-the-street demos, and you know, it would be nice if other people organized some actions sometime. "
This, my friends, is exactly what sectarianism is, expressed perfectly.
In other words, if you don't like our version of open organizing, fuck off because your criticism is irrelevant. We won't change how we do things and you should just go do your own thing. What does that leave us with? A bunch of small demos of small scenes which don't impact shit besides making people feel cool for "fighting the system".
Perhaps it is this condescending and elitist attitude which explains why in the Bay Area, you have a million fucking demos a day but none of the groups ever can have it in the same time, same place, with a diversity of tactics which might actually create a fucking cool protest.
I have an even better idea. People should just hold single-person protests, not try to organize with anyone else, and just pick your own time and place. And when SFPD stops you for wandering in the middle of Market Street by yourself, you can explain that you are not crazy or drunk, you are holding a solidarity protest.
This, my friends, is exactly what sectarianism is, expressed perfectly.
In other words, if you don't like our version of open organizing, fuck off because your criticism is irrelevant. We won't change how we do things and you should just go do your own thing. What does that leave us with? A bunch of small demos of small scenes which don't impact shit besides making people feel cool for "fighting the system".
Perhaps it is this condescending and elitist attitude which explains why in the Bay Area, you have a million fucking demos a day but none of the groups ever can have it in the same time, same place, with a diversity of tactics which might actually create a fucking cool protest.
I have an even better idea. People should just hold single-person protests, not try to organize with anyone else, and just pick your own time and place. And when SFPD stops you for wandering in the middle of Market Street by yourself, you can explain that you are not crazy or drunk, you are holding a solidarity protest.
first off, this is an important discussion to be having on IMC. why? where else, exactly, is it taking place? nowhere really.
if the average bay area anarchist were interested in anything more than the collective household or RTS (which can be amazing of course) and not thinking truly strategically and getting over the lifestylism that permeates everything most of them do, then resistence might actually be fertile.
but let's be honest here. it's not easy. solidarity is more than just a 200-strong demo/punk show for thousands in the streets in NYC, though what happened in SF is something.
how about some solidarity with the mainly people of color on the streets of the bay area that are marginalized everyday by cops and everyone else? how about some solidarity with idriss stelley's family and friends, or with the folks in Fruitvale or Bayview Hunters Point or Richmond that are fighting for their lives on a daily basis at the hands of horrible toxic polluters? punk shows, veganism and polyamory are great for some, but strategic resistance goes much fucking further than that.
if the average bay area anarchist were interested in anything more than the collective household or RTS (which can be amazing of course) and not thinking truly strategically and getting over the lifestylism that permeates everything most of them do, then resistence might actually be fertile.
but let's be honest here. it's not easy. solidarity is more than just a 200-strong demo/punk show for thousands in the streets in NYC, though what happened in SF is something.
how about some solidarity with the mainly people of color on the streets of the bay area that are marginalized everyday by cops and everyone else? how about some solidarity with idriss stelley's family and friends, or with the folks in Fruitvale or Bayview Hunters Point or Richmond that are fighting for their lives on a daily basis at the hands of horrible toxic polluters? punk shows, veganism and polyamory are great for some, but strategic resistance goes much fucking further than that.
I didn't attend the march on Saturday night because I had been at an ISO sponsored event titled, "Local Challenges to the WEF," which featured talks about the coming mass firings of immigrant workers and the attacks on public education. (We did send a small contingent down to support the march). So, I won't comment on the specifics of the march, but just make a couple of quick comments about where to go from here.
First, the size of the NYC protests shows there are lot's of folks who will not be silenced. This is great.
Second, we have very favorable circumstances in the Bay Area (a relatively large left, strong labor unions, multi-racial working class, etc) so we should be able to find a way to organize a serious movement against the local and international impacts of capitalism and war.
Third, one way to do this is to start thinking about organizing solidarity actions with the spring IMF/WB protests that will (probably) take place in DC.
Fourth, in the meantime, we've got to draw some lines in the sand and win some local battles. I think one of the most important local fight to win is the fact that hundreds of Filipino workers at SF airport are going to be fired because the new Airport Security law (part of Bush's war on terror) says you have to be a citizen to keep your job. If these workers lose their jobs it will be a blow against unions, immigrant rights, civil liberties and human rights and a huge victory for the forces of war, in what is supposedly the most liberal/progressive city in the country. The workers will have to fight to keep their jobs.
One worker told people at the ISO meeting on Saturday that they are not going to be fired quietly. I propose that everyone make defending the airport workers at SFO (and Oakland and San Jose as well), a top priority in the organizing in the coming months. This struggle can bring together unionists, immigrant's rights organizers, global justice activists and people of all progressive and left wing ideologies. This doesn't have to be the exclusive thing we do, but for those of us concerned with getting rid of this lousy system, if we don't find a way to put the struggles of the working class at the center of our organizing, we will never have a strong enough movement to challenge the powers that be.
For more information or to get involved with the airport workers struggle, email capulong [at] stanford.edu.
First, the size of the NYC protests shows there are lot's of folks who will not be silenced. This is great.
Second, we have very favorable circumstances in the Bay Area (a relatively large left, strong labor unions, multi-racial working class, etc) so we should be able to find a way to organize a serious movement against the local and international impacts of capitalism and war.
Third, one way to do this is to start thinking about organizing solidarity actions with the spring IMF/WB protests that will (probably) take place in DC.
Fourth, in the meantime, we've got to draw some lines in the sand and win some local battles. I think one of the most important local fight to win is the fact that hundreds of Filipino workers at SF airport are going to be fired because the new Airport Security law (part of Bush's war on terror) says you have to be a citizen to keep your job. If these workers lose their jobs it will be a blow against unions, immigrant rights, civil liberties and human rights and a huge victory for the forces of war, in what is supposedly the most liberal/progressive city in the country. The workers will have to fight to keep their jobs.
One worker told people at the ISO meeting on Saturday that they are not going to be fired quietly. I propose that everyone make defending the airport workers at SFO (and Oakland and San Jose as well), a top priority in the organizing in the coming months. This struggle can bring together unionists, immigrant's rights organizers, global justice activists and people of all progressive and left wing ideologies. This doesn't have to be the exclusive thing we do, but for those of us concerned with getting rid of this lousy system, if we don't find a way to put the struggles of the working class at the center of our organizing, we will never have a strong enough movement to challenge the powers that be.
For more information or to get involved with the airport workers struggle, email capulong [at] stanford.edu.
I support this action, but SEIU has consistently suppressed workers' desires to take direct action! Can someone clear this fucking up???
> gkkd: That "day-of-flyer" mentioned above was not from the organizers, it was from Indymedia!!!
Hum, I saw two flyers. One was half-sized double-sided and said nothing about IMC on it (unless I missed something), it had difficult to read but substantive text about the demo and the WEF in particular, white on black slash-like font (don't know the name). It had confusing handwritten black marker on the bottom saying things like "What it is" on each side. Was that the IMF flyer? I don't think so. Based on the context, the style, and who gave it to me I felt it was a day-of flyer by someone who most closely organized the demo. Was glad to get the IMC flyer too. But ya know what, I already knew a lot of why I was there. I wish the flyers were going out to the general public more.
Whole lotta discussion goin' on up there.
This is an important discussion. I'm amazed at all the bitterness and conflict, often over relatively superficial things, but also inspired that people care enough to lay out a lot of often intelligent commentary.
In defense of human fallability and many efforts being part of a natural process rather than sectarianism...
Check it out, we are human, and like it or not have limitations -- but together in many different paths we can accomplish super things. We are under individual attack in so many ways, independent of whether whether of how high we are on the privilege ladder on this glass ceiling arena.
We are under attack with the difficulty of finding what we need for life, support and who to trust, where to put our energy, with the infighting which is obviously affecting people, by the vast array of issues which we are being bombarded with that urgently demand attention, by the chemicals and caustic experiences we're being besieged with, and by the fact that a lot of times people try -- and always they're going to make some kind of mistakes -- and so often they end up punished and ostracized and criticized for trying, rather than embraced for trying and given the opportunity to and hey how about the help to do better. We live in a culture where we've been actively disempowered and kept from learning how to take care of ourselves and others collectively. Pardon if you will the stream of consciousness approach.
My big hope is in the fact that those who agree with anarchism (most people, most of the time), the closer they get to trying to live their ideals and make a difference, may one day find substantial unity and make an incredible difference. But if we don't lay the foundations, principally with ourselves, and with education of and building alternatives with as many people as possible, and with finding what we truly believe -- our principles -- and developing things we can depend on (for once) like a security culture, like more love in our lives, like not having to fear facing eviction or lack of ability to meet basic life needs like food, healthcare, etc., alone... you get the idea?
As for the music being white, you are really doing a disservice to the latino band which played and the fact that the sound system primarily played Subsistencia, which is a latino/a punk band from LA with strong ties to indigenous struggles for land and liberty in Mexico.
Punk rock continues to be used broadly and globally as an expression of anger and resistence, of coming together across race, 'nationality', gender, quite a few lifestylisms, and hey even class, and continues to be an outlet for anarchist expression and community building. Techno is also a unifier in its many scenes, where racism can be brilliantly overcome at least within the subculture, which inevitably begins to have an effect on the larger society.
As for casting aspersions over all Bay Area Anarchists for whatever personal complaints you had about the demo, this is quite ridiculous. Some people organized a demo, others came, in all a small fraction of Bay Area Anarchists. Not all consider themselves anarchists, many did not know who organized the demo, they were there to demonstrate and they did. Can you really say this demonstration was less effective than so many others? It could have been more effective but there are many reasons to hold a demo, a rally, a protest, and some of them are for "us" as a movement. I'd rather jump around in the street with some refreshing people than go to some (sectarian!!!) little party somewhere, or some commercial venue, etc. Is this a party-protest versus Puritanical protest issue?
Personally I keep an open mind about any demo I go to. I also take some personal responsibility. A little socioconceptual dance. When someone tells me to clear a lane for police, I am unhappy and question it -- but I also keep an open mind that there may be a good reason and don't dismiss the request without questions. We all curtail our activities around police at one point or another (speak now if you differ, I'd like to see you and perhaps support you in action), and there's more to consider like how the police will treat the next demo, whether some goal of the demo will come off before a confrontation with police coopts and disrupts it, whether there are people present or eqipment which is a high priority to protect, whether the poliec need to get through so they'll be OUT OF THE WAY for somethign good about to happen, I could go on.
When complaints become so entrenched and shrill as to prohibit participation in growing towards resolving the source of the complaints, I think it's time to turn the spotlight on the complainants! We ain't your servants.
At least no one complained about the organic vegan burritos. THAT would piss me off. :)
Thanks for this discussion it's valuable.
Love,
px
re: the day-of-flyer
Okay, there were 2 flyers made by SF Indymedia. One was 8-1/2x11" and it said "SF Indymedia News" ... the other was a 8-1/2x11" half-sheet which was news from the NYC demo, it was made between 4pm and the start of the demo. So, dunno if it is the same one you are talking about, but that's what IMC had there.
re: criticisms
All of what ponkie said is good ... and given all that, here is what I want to know. French Canada, northeastern USA, DC, NYC, Brazil, across Europe, etc ... they all have some kind of anti-capitalist convergence. In other words, all the sectarian groups who can at least differentiate themselves from reform-oriented groups get together in one room, and try to agree on at LEAST a couple things, a couple actions. These groups seem to be focused on creating large demonstrations as well as being involved in working class struggles in their own community.
A meeting was called a few weeks ago to discuss something similar to this, to examine what is going on with NEFAC and see if and how that could be applicable to the Bay Area. Some people came, far less people showed interest. In face to face conversations I've had with anarchists in the Bay Area, there seems to be extreme reluctance about an ACC-type organization, from people who are just jaded on working with other groups all the way to people who simply believe that federated organizations aren't a good thing. Now, on this comment thread, Todd from ISO seems to be saying that they would be interested in working together and showing solidarity where it can be. So. I guess my recurring question is, given the enormous base of leftism and radical leftism in the Bay Area, is such an organization possible, and are there people who think this would be a good idea? Because from my point of view, Europe and South America have serious movements going on, and North Americans need to really question what it is we are or are not doing which makes our situation so dismal.
Apparently, the failures of BAAA and Group X have made most people uninterested in doing something like this. The recent anarchist townhalls have also expressed frustration with "scenesterism" in the bay area, to the point where even anarchist groups won't work with each other.
"When complaints become so entrenched and shrill as to prohibit participation in growing towards resolving the source of the complaints, I think it's time to turn the spotlight on the complainants! We ain't your servants."
I think growing is all that most people in interested in, they are just so pigeonholed into their own brand of "how to make revolution" that they lose the bigger picture. I think the point is to look at other communities in the world right now, look at their successes and failures, and try to strategically apply that to the Bay Area. The same disagreements we have here ... organization-minded people vs. lifestylist-minded people, red vs black vs green, etc also happen everywhere. Radical vs. reformist happens everywhere too. The question I have is, how can Italy have 200,000 people in the streets (and no, i dont mean genoa, i mean a few weeks ago) whereas the world famous home of the Black Panthers can only get 200?
I personally would feel more positive if other people in the local community at least acknowledged that this is a problem, and discussed ways to address it.
Okay, there were 2 flyers made by SF Indymedia. One was 8-1/2x11" and it said "SF Indymedia News" ... the other was a 8-1/2x11" half-sheet which was news from the NYC demo, it was made between 4pm and the start of the demo. So, dunno if it is the same one you are talking about, but that's what IMC had there.
re: criticisms
All of what ponkie said is good ... and given all that, here is what I want to know. French Canada, northeastern USA, DC, NYC, Brazil, across Europe, etc ... they all have some kind of anti-capitalist convergence. In other words, all the sectarian groups who can at least differentiate themselves from reform-oriented groups get together in one room, and try to agree on at LEAST a couple things, a couple actions. These groups seem to be focused on creating large demonstrations as well as being involved in working class struggles in their own community.
A meeting was called a few weeks ago to discuss something similar to this, to examine what is going on with NEFAC and see if and how that could be applicable to the Bay Area. Some people came, far less people showed interest. In face to face conversations I've had with anarchists in the Bay Area, there seems to be extreme reluctance about an ACC-type organization, from people who are just jaded on working with other groups all the way to people who simply believe that federated organizations aren't a good thing. Now, on this comment thread, Todd from ISO seems to be saying that they would be interested in working together and showing solidarity where it can be. So. I guess my recurring question is, given the enormous base of leftism and radical leftism in the Bay Area, is such an organization possible, and are there people who think this would be a good idea? Because from my point of view, Europe and South America have serious movements going on, and North Americans need to really question what it is we are or are not doing which makes our situation so dismal.
Apparently, the failures of BAAA and Group X have made most people uninterested in doing something like this. The recent anarchist townhalls have also expressed frustration with "scenesterism" in the bay area, to the point where even anarchist groups won't work with each other.
"When complaints become so entrenched and shrill as to prohibit participation in growing towards resolving the source of the complaints, I think it's time to turn the spotlight on the complainants! We ain't your servants."
I think growing is all that most people in interested in, they are just so pigeonholed into their own brand of "how to make revolution" that they lose the bigger picture. I think the point is to look at other communities in the world right now, look at their successes and failures, and try to strategically apply that to the Bay Area. The same disagreements we have here ... organization-minded people vs. lifestylist-minded people, red vs black vs green, etc also happen everywhere. Radical vs. reformist happens everywhere too. The question I have is, how can Italy have 200,000 people in the streets (and no, i dont mean genoa, i mean a few weeks ago) whereas the world famous home of the Black Panthers can only get 200?
I personally would feel more positive if other people in the local community at least acknowledged that this is a problem, and discussed ways to address it.
I didn't make Saturday's demo-- i guess i felt the solidarity anti-WTO protest that took place in Richmond back in November seemed pretty ineffective and i figured the same would be true with this demo. Richmond was sort of the right idea -- try making connections with a racially diverse poor and working class commuties against corporate polluters. Despite several local grassroots organizations from Richmond being (seemingly?) involved in the organizing it was fairly obvious that very few locals joined the protest. The protest then degenerated into a pointless squabble with arrests by the police. On the whole ineffective. Im not sure blaming anyone is effective but i noticed here on indymedia there was little evaluation of the action and any discussion of strategy (mostly just complaints about the police).
Same thing for Saturdays demo--- mostly vitrolic accusations back and forth, some of them seem pretty petty without much focus on the bigger picture. Somewhat ironically Todd from the ISO seems to have risen above the mostly useless rancor and advocated defending the Filipino airport workers whose necks are currently on the chopping blocks. In my opinion this sort of campaign is the way forward. Until the anti-globalization movement starts to find ways to build links within the American (multiracial by the way) working class and fuse into a broader movement it will remain (ineffective) on the margins. Any thoughts anyone?
Same thing for Saturdays demo--- mostly vitrolic accusations back and forth, some of them seem pretty petty without much focus on the bigger picture. Somewhat ironically Todd from the ISO seems to have risen above the mostly useless rancor and advocated defending the Filipino airport workers whose necks are currently on the chopping blocks. In my opinion this sort of campaign is the way forward. Until the anti-globalization movement starts to find ways to build links within the American (multiracial by the way) working class and fuse into a broader movement it will remain (ineffective) on the margins. Any thoughts anyone?
who here has ever heard of being pro-active??
as people fighting for a different world (all of us: anarchists, leftists, maoists, stalinists, marxists, anti-authoritarians, etc.) how can so many of us be so aggressively negative at what was little more than a positive attempt? it was (everyting we do is) an expirement. it exists on a continuum.
it was not the say all, end all, be all of the bay area anarchist movement--and it didn't claim to be. it claimed to be an alternative to the usual shout at the building of a corporation that doesn't hear you while holding a sign about what you want to happen. it claimed to be punks against the war and the wef because a lot of political punks are so disillusioned with the protest movement.
it was organized by a small group in a small amount of time because no one had anyting else planned. they could've branched out. they could've brought in more help. there could have been far more coalition. they could've had some fucking spanish language flyers, but what happened happened because a few folks wanted something at all to happen. the shout at a building protest was earlier that day and there wasn't going to be anyone in the street. and there wasn't going to be anyting fun.
sure, no windows were broken. sure nothing was painted. sure, there were no lockdowns and sure, there was commuincation with the cops, but who was there to do something different? who will do what they want next time? who is finding a way to make the next time better-use what worked saturday night and use somethings better than what didn't to learn and act, instead of getting angry and never joining in or starting something new?
if we are building a movement, we first have to find a way to learn from our mistakes and build a better praxis than we have now. criticism without construction is just complaining, and it only pushes us all farther apart.
as people fighting for a different world (all of us: anarchists, leftists, maoists, stalinists, marxists, anti-authoritarians, etc.) how can so many of us be so aggressively negative at what was little more than a positive attempt? it was (everyting we do is) an expirement. it exists on a continuum.
it was not the say all, end all, be all of the bay area anarchist movement--and it didn't claim to be. it claimed to be an alternative to the usual shout at the building of a corporation that doesn't hear you while holding a sign about what you want to happen. it claimed to be punks against the war and the wef because a lot of political punks are so disillusioned with the protest movement.
it was organized by a small group in a small amount of time because no one had anyting else planned. they could've branched out. they could've brought in more help. there could have been far more coalition. they could've had some fucking spanish language flyers, but what happened happened because a few folks wanted something at all to happen. the shout at a building protest was earlier that day and there wasn't going to be anyone in the street. and there wasn't going to be anyting fun.
sure, no windows were broken. sure nothing was painted. sure, there were no lockdowns and sure, there was commuincation with the cops, but who was there to do something different? who will do what they want next time? who is finding a way to make the next time better-use what worked saturday night and use somethings better than what didn't to learn and act, instead of getting angry and never joining in or starting something new?
if we are building a movement, we first have to find a way to learn from our mistakes and build a better praxis than we have now. criticism without construction is just complaining, and it only pushes us all farther apart.
I find this hard to write because of the format. It's hard to respond to different thoughts that other people had when you have to keep going back to them, but i will try. I really liked what ponkie had to say, so i won't repeat.
I will also ask if people want to have an email list entitled "what i dislke about other Bay Area anarchists rather than attempt to do anything themselves" it woud be a big list. I say that sarcastically because that's what this round robin is becoming. No one is saying they're going to try to going to organize anything themselves (which is not sectarianism) and instead all they want to do is carp about what others do.
I say no one but that's not true, because i annouced Mayday, our Anti-Capitalist Convergnece, and its next meeting, something somebody on this list said is not happening in the Bay Area.
I also thought Todd from the ISO had a good idea of supporting the airport workers and hope against hope that peeopel will be non-sectarian in doing so. For my part, i will email the address that he gives and try to help.
See you all in da streets.
I will also ask if people want to have an email list entitled "what i dislke about other Bay Area anarchists rather than attempt to do anything themselves" it woud be a big list. I say that sarcastically because that's what this round robin is becoming. No one is saying they're going to try to going to organize anything themselves (which is not sectarianism) and instead all they want to do is carp about what others do.
I say no one but that's not true, because i annouced Mayday, our Anti-Capitalist Convergnece, and its next meeting, something somebody on this list said is not happening in the Bay Area.
I also thought Todd from the ISO had a good idea of supporting the airport workers and hope against hope that peeopel will be non-sectarian in doing so. For my part, i will email the address that he gives and try to help.
See you all in da streets.
I find this hard to write because of the format. It's hard to respond to different thoughts that other people had when you have to keep going back to them, but i will try. I really liked what ponkie had to say, so i won't repeat.
I will also ask if people want to have an email list entitled "what i dislke about other Bay Area anarchists rather than attempt to do anything themselves" it woud be a big list. I say that sarcastically because that's what this round robin is becoming. No one is saying they're going to try to going to organize anything themselves (which is not sectarianism) and instead all they want to do is carp about what others do.
I say no one but that's not true, because i annouced Mayday, our Anti-Capitalist Convergnece, and its next meeting, something somebody on this list said is not happening in the Bay Area.
I also thought Todd from the ISO had a good idea of supporting the airport workers and hope against hope that peeopel will be non-sectarian in doing so. For my part, i will email the address that he gives and try to help.
See you all in da streets.
I will also ask if people want to have an email list entitled "what i dislke about other Bay Area anarchists rather than attempt to do anything themselves" it woud be a big list. I say that sarcastically because that's what this round robin is becoming. No one is saying they're going to try to going to organize anything themselves (which is not sectarianism) and instead all they want to do is carp about what others do.
I say no one but that's not true, because i annouced Mayday, our Anti-Capitalist Convergnece, and its next meeting, something somebody on this list said is not happening in the Bay Area.
I also thought Todd from the ISO had a good idea of supporting the airport workers and hope against hope that peeopel will be non-sectarian in doing so. For my part, i will email the address that he gives and try to help.
See you all in da streets.
I hitch hiked to sf from sacramento because i wanted to scream against the WEF. First thing that happened was that some guy got angry at me when i did not give him the right answer as to why i was wearing a moustache. he walked away saying that i probably did not want to share the truth because he was not wearing any Crass patches. Well, fuck that, I have no Crass patches either. I wore a moustache and goatee, because i make myself laugh in the mirrors, only.
Second angry person was, an older white man with a suit and a tie and a briefcase. It was classic. He read the signs we held, and he felt the need to tell me that we were all coockoo. he laughed. i was angry, but refused to yell at him back or to be violent.
Third angry person, a young asian looking boy in his 20's. he, referring to the "cancell Argentina's debt" ,mentioned that the IMF had granted Argentina millions of dollars last week. I tried to explain to him about Random Big Corporation, and how they take advantage of native people accross the world and how they don't care if there is no more rain forest. Tried to explain to him about the Maquiladoras in Juarez, about the Tomato pickers in San Diego. Hell, i even tried to tell him about my family, and how they have all worked in the fields, picking fruits, and vegetables. About the fact that they don't even make minimum wage, because agricultural minumum wages are not enforced. He said we were all "rebels without a cause"
How can you explain to someone why you are protesting, when they are angry already and refuse to listen. Hell yes, i yelled "No War"
You better believe it, i stayed away from the motorcycle cop 599 who sped , so narrowly missing me.
I wanted to embrace all the people who were oblivious to the fact that our lives are controlled by those with power to drop bombs. Who did not know what the WEF is. Who had no idea why we were there. Who did not know what was going on in NY. (Why did they not know?)
TV really makes it easy, ...
As if all these wars(korea, vietnam, kuwait, chiapas, afghanistan ), making us feel like it's so far away, but i look around my neighborhood, and my house is missing two windows, and there are fucking liquour stores in every corner, and the curch steps littered with people, and i have no money or food to share.....
I protest the WEF. Because I want the people who live in the world to be happy. Because i feel sick to see that Embarcadero is so beautifull, that the state capitol is so big, and the rental bills and utilities so high...
I have studied economics, and sociology, and all the shit they teach me in college,
and all the footsteps that took back those minutes on 2 02 02, they are there forever. i took my time out to be there. as did all the other people that were there.
and all the musicians, was anyone listening to the words, the music? what is punk anyway? i don't know. but it sounds like it's the newest scapegoat, to "i coul've done it better" the new, "I look cleaner than you".
Second angry person was, an older white man with a suit and a tie and a briefcase. It was classic. He read the signs we held, and he felt the need to tell me that we were all coockoo. he laughed. i was angry, but refused to yell at him back or to be violent.
Third angry person, a young asian looking boy in his 20's. he, referring to the "cancell Argentina's debt" ,mentioned that the IMF had granted Argentina millions of dollars last week. I tried to explain to him about Random Big Corporation, and how they take advantage of native people accross the world and how they don't care if there is no more rain forest. Tried to explain to him about the Maquiladoras in Juarez, about the Tomato pickers in San Diego. Hell, i even tried to tell him about my family, and how they have all worked in the fields, picking fruits, and vegetables. About the fact that they don't even make minimum wage, because agricultural minumum wages are not enforced. He said we were all "rebels without a cause"
How can you explain to someone why you are protesting, when they are angry already and refuse to listen. Hell yes, i yelled "No War"
You better believe it, i stayed away from the motorcycle cop 599 who sped , so narrowly missing me.
I wanted to embrace all the people who were oblivious to the fact that our lives are controlled by those with power to drop bombs. Who did not know what the WEF is. Who had no idea why we were there. Who did not know what was going on in NY. (Why did they not know?)
TV really makes it easy, ...
As if all these wars(korea, vietnam, kuwait, chiapas, afghanistan ), making us feel like it's so far away, but i look around my neighborhood, and my house is missing two windows, and there are fucking liquour stores in every corner, and the curch steps littered with people, and i have no money or food to share.....
I protest the WEF. Because I want the people who live in the world to be happy. Because i feel sick to see that Embarcadero is so beautifull, that the state capitol is so big, and the rental bills and utilities so high...
I have studied economics, and sociology, and all the shit they teach me in college,
and all the footsteps that took back those minutes on 2 02 02, they are there forever. i took my time out to be there. as did all the other people that were there.
and all the musicians, was anyone listening to the words, the music? what is punk anyway? i don't know. but it sounds like it's the newest scapegoat, to "i coul've done it better" the new, "I look cleaner than you".
gkkd said "The question I have is, how can Italy have 200,000 people in the streets (and no, i dont mean genoa, i mean a few weeks ago) whereas the world famous home of the Black Panthers can only get 200?'"
To address this more generally than with regard to a specific event, the political situation in Europe differs substantially from the U.S., in a way that reflects Europe's position within the global capitalist order, in which the individual European states, or Europe as a whole, is today fundamentally not an independent geopolitical player but rather a function of the US global apparatus.
Of course only recently Europe used to be the power center of the world, with the U.S. being a mere appendage, and the desire to regain its primacy is a driving force within Europe. The same situation obtains on a national level within various individual European states.
In this context, being against America, or the practices and institutions associated with America, is not in itself an idea totally inimical to the European polity.
Thus, for instance, when Jose Bove smashes up a McDonalds, he is in a way merely implementing the established policy of the French state, which includes strong agricultural subsidies, etc. and which is in a way threatened by "globalization". Of course the U.S. also has strong agricultural subsidies, but if the U.S., with its subsidies, were to go head to head against France with its, France would lose. Thus, U.S. power structures would be much less likely to oppose "globalization" than the French, because it is a game in which the US would win.
To generalize this point, European ruling classes may find it advantageous to allow or even encourage a certain degree of opposition to the global system led by America as a way to bolster their own position within that system.
So for instance, if the US military presence in Europe is, or is perceived as being, under threat from hundreds of thousands of European radicals, that gives the European rulers some leverage against their US counterparts, allowing the former to potentially extract various concessions from the latter on the grounds of having to appease the widespread domestic opposition to US-led policies, thereby bolstering the position of the European ruling class within the global context created by those policies.
The constant exposure received by people in Europe, through the media, the educational system, the cultural scenes, etc., to content with a certain anti-American flavor, anti-globalization flavor, anti-EU flavor, etc., coupled with a greater population density and more developed and accessible intra-European transporation corridors, creates the conditions for larger demonstrations, both on the left and the right.
A similar effect was observed in the Bay Area with respect to the Bush inauguration, dissatisfacation with which was seized upon by elements of the Democractic establishment to bolster their own power. The increased exposure to and legitimation of "protesting Bush" led to a relatively large turnout to protest what was essentially "business as usual" - the inauguration of a Republican as presidnet - and so once the event was over, the participants quietly returned to business as usual.
The scale of participation in this protest was predicated on this strong conservative element, just as is the case with the "anti-American" flavored protests in Europe.
Along the same lines, the conditions in the "world famous home of the Black Panthers" are well illustrated by the fact that the black millionaire Secretary of State Colin Powell, one of the most respected men in America, was right there inside the W.E.F. meeting, from where he was televized pitching his war on terror to the multinational-corporate "community".
Thus, while you correctly say that people "are just so pigeonholed into their own brand of "how to make revolution" that they lose the bigger picture", it could equally be said, on the obverse, that the character of the bigger picture itself explains why people are so pigeonholed into their own brand of "how to make revolution".
To address this more generally than with regard to a specific event, the political situation in Europe differs substantially from the U.S., in a way that reflects Europe's position within the global capitalist order, in which the individual European states, or Europe as a whole, is today fundamentally not an independent geopolitical player but rather a function of the US global apparatus.
Of course only recently Europe used to be the power center of the world, with the U.S. being a mere appendage, and the desire to regain its primacy is a driving force within Europe. The same situation obtains on a national level within various individual European states.
In this context, being against America, or the practices and institutions associated with America, is not in itself an idea totally inimical to the European polity.
Thus, for instance, when Jose Bove smashes up a McDonalds, he is in a way merely implementing the established policy of the French state, which includes strong agricultural subsidies, etc. and which is in a way threatened by "globalization". Of course the U.S. also has strong agricultural subsidies, but if the U.S., with its subsidies, were to go head to head against France with its, France would lose. Thus, U.S. power structures would be much less likely to oppose "globalization" than the French, because it is a game in which the US would win.
To generalize this point, European ruling classes may find it advantageous to allow or even encourage a certain degree of opposition to the global system led by America as a way to bolster their own position within that system.
So for instance, if the US military presence in Europe is, or is perceived as being, under threat from hundreds of thousands of European radicals, that gives the European rulers some leverage against their US counterparts, allowing the former to potentially extract various concessions from the latter on the grounds of having to appease the widespread domestic opposition to US-led policies, thereby bolstering the position of the European ruling class within the global context created by those policies.
The constant exposure received by people in Europe, through the media, the educational system, the cultural scenes, etc., to content with a certain anti-American flavor, anti-globalization flavor, anti-EU flavor, etc., coupled with a greater population density and more developed and accessible intra-European transporation corridors, creates the conditions for larger demonstrations, both on the left and the right.
A similar effect was observed in the Bay Area with respect to the Bush inauguration, dissatisfacation with which was seized upon by elements of the Democractic establishment to bolster their own power. The increased exposure to and legitimation of "protesting Bush" led to a relatively large turnout to protest what was essentially "business as usual" - the inauguration of a Republican as presidnet - and so once the event was over, the participants quietly returned to business as usual.
The scale of participation in this protest was predicated on this strong conservative element, just as is the case with the "anti-American" flavored protests in Europe.
Along the same lines, the conditions in the "world famous home of the Black Panthers" are well illustrated by the fact that the black millionaire Secretary of State Colin Powell, one of the most respected men in America, was right there inside the W.E.F. meeting, from where he was televized pitching his war on terror to the multinational-corporate "community".
Thus, while you correctly say that people "are just so pigeonholed into their own brand of "how to make revolution" that they lose the bigger picture", it could equally be said, on the obverse, that the character of the bigger picture itself explains why people are so pigeonholed into their own brand of "how to make revolution".
I just wanted to say that it seems easier for folks to throw bricks behind the lines than it is for people to inspire each other and work together. People who organize things, even if they are just band or dj events, put their hearts into it and it is fucked for the self righteous of the world to constantly come down on people who are trying to do something. It is not like people are doing things for profit, or fame. It might not be right for you, and i might ask why you aren't working on things that are right for you? Who has the time to be so critical, possibly some one who spends alot of time over analizing stuff? Try working with people, you learn to be a lot more accepting of diversity, you cannot run the whole thing by yourself, no matter how good of a writer you are....
Anarchists and anarchism have never exsisted in a void, it is not an answer to all questions, and history is only an example, not a solution. Anarchism is just another box, it has some really great practical ideas. Read and think outside the box.
I personally have no interest in punk asestics and find that part of the "scene" very alienating, but they are doing something to create a culture that deffies the norm and finding identity in a world where consumerism and mono culture rule, ah yeah like being an anarchist. Creating an identity for all the non conformist, conformists.
I see the success in European communities of resistance, in being tied to there being alot of multi generational trends, and yeah there are subcultural aspects, but there are communities of support for people who live the action. I think that the amerikkkan scene needs to build institutions of support, like day care centers or other style community centers, places that show that we ain't just about the 16-30 anarchist interests. Counter institutions, as if we are not just some fad, or some dreamers dream. There aren't many places like that in the states, but i think that is the challenge for my generation, 30+.
Anarchists and anarchism have never exsisted in a void, it is not an answer to all questions, and history is only an example, not a solution. Anarchism is just another box, it has some really great practical ideas. Read and think outside the box.
I personally have no interest in punk asestics and find that part of the "scene" very alienating, but they are doing something to create a culture that deffies the norm and finding identity in a world where consumerism and mono culture rule, ah yeah like being an anarchist. Creating an identity for all the non conformist, conformists.
I see the success in European communities of resistance, in being tied to there being alot of multi generational trends, and yeah there are subcultural aspects, but there are communities of support for people who live the action. I think that the amerikkkan scene needs to build institutions of support, like day care centers or other style community centers, places that show that we ain't just about the 16-30 anarchist interests. Counter institutions, as if we are not just some fad, or some dreamers dream. There aren't many places like that in the states, but i think that is the challenge for my generation, 30+.
I'm in my early 20's and I see the same problem - I want to be part of building true structural alternatives, and I don't particularly want to wear black all the time and the all the rest of it.
- i heard about the back and forth here yesterday, and expected the usual bs. thankfully, it's better than usual, an accomplishment in and of itself imo.
- i like the idea of doing a post-demo/action perspectives thread, especially from those who were actually at the protest. more please.
- there's a lot that's messed up about the anarcho-punk movement/scene/whatever...and there's also a lot that's messed up about the activist left in general. there are also good things as well. please don't lose the forest from the trees.
- in terms of the demo itself: i was there -- and yes, it was small, for the reasons listed above. the reason it was that way is because a few folks were doin' what they could with no resources. please don't blame people for trying, that's not cool. constructive criticism, ya know? live and learn.
- in terms of whiteness in the anarcho scene: well (ahem) a large percentage of the activist left, bein' white and not exactly clue endowed in terms of race dynamics doesn't have a right to be overly critical about this...look at your own house first, how many of the most critical voices on this thread fit the "everybody is a racist but me" white activist stereotype? are there problems? you bet -- and speaking for myself, i don't want some crusader rabbit to fix the racism in my community on my behalf from outside, i don't care who they are. it rarely works, and frequently just imposes another flavor of white supremacist hegemony. fuck that! please. (sigh)
- i'm glad to hear that todd from the iso is working with filipino airport workers. my hope is that he's letting them call the shots as to THEIR needs -- and that would be an example that the white left, white anarcho punx, et. al. could learn from.
anon
- i like the idea of doing a post-demo/action perspectives thread, especially from those who were actually at the protest. more please.
- there's a lot that's messed up about the anarcho-punk movement/scene/whatever...and there's also a lot that's messed up about the activist left in general. there are also good things as well. please don't lose the forest from the trees.
- in terms of the demo itself: i was there -- and yes, it was small, for the reasons listed above. the reason it was that way is because a few folks were doin' what they could with no resources. please don't blame people for trying, that's not cool. constructive criticism, ya know? live and learn.
- in terms of whiteness in the anarcho scene: well (ahem) a large percentage of the activist left, bein' white and not exactly clue endowed in terms of race dynamics doesn't have a right to be overly critical about this...look at your own house first, how many of the most critical voices on this thread fit the "everybody is a racist but me" white activist stereotype? are there problems? you bet -- and speaking for myself, i don't want some crusader rabbit to fix the racism in my community on my behalf from outside, i don't care who they are. it rarely works, and frequently just imposes another flavor of white supremacist hegemony. fuck that! please. (sigh)
- i'm glad to hear that todd from the iso is working with filipino airport workers. my hope is that he's letting them call the shots as to THEIR needs -- and that would be an example that the white left, white anarcho punx, et. al. could learn from.
anon
"The constant exposure received by people in Europe, through the media, the educational system, the cultural scenes, etc., to content with a certain anti-American flavor, anti-globalization flavor, anti-EU flavor, etc., coupled with a greater population density and more developed and accessible intra-European transporation corridors, creates the conditions for larger demonstrations, both on the left and the right. "
I think this is a great point and truly, much of what is different between Europe and the US can be explained by cultural differences like you mention, and even the "establishment-sanctioned dissent" that you talk about.
But, I think that dismissing everything as cultural is not getting the big picture either. American culture does have the potential for large-scale working class protest. Witness the 50s and 60s, and witness earlier 20th-century union battles.
I am referring to just the last few years, and the difference between the protest movement in Europe and the protest movement in the USA.
For instance, in Genoa, I think the Italian government did everything it could to limit dissent with an international, multilateral security force. But the protest movement in Italy is far from dead, as you can see from the recent anniversary march for Carlo Giuliani, which brought out 20,000.
Or the recent march against the Bossi/Fini Law, where 200,000 demonstrated. This protest was aimed only at an Italian domestic law, so I'm not sure if anti-US sentiment is the reason it happened.
I think this is a great point and truly, much of what is different between Europe and the US can be explained by cultural differences like you mention, and even the "establishment-sanctioned dissent" that you talk about.
But, I think that dismissing everything as cultural is not getting the big picture either. American culture does have the potential for large-scale working class protest. Witness the 50s and 60s, and witness earlier 20th-century union battles.
I am referring to just the last few years, and the difference between the protest movement in Europe and the protest movement in the USA.
For instance, in Genoa, I think the Italian government did everything it could to limit dissent with an international, multilateral security force. But the protest movement in Italy is far from dead, as you can see from the recent anniversary march for Carlo Giuliani, which brought out 20,000.
Or the recent march against the Bossi/Fini Law, where 200,000 demonstrated. This protest was aimed only at an Italian domestic law, so I'm not sure if anti-US sentiment is the reason it happened.
"But, I think that dismissing everything as cultural is not getting the big picture either"
I think the issue here is more political than cultural.
Thus, while the Italian government may have done everything it could to limit dissent in Genoa, elements of the Italian government provided overt support, housing, etc. to the protesters, as did other mainstream political organization in Europe.
With the Bossi-Fini law protest, while it does fit partially within an "anti-American" context, insofar as it is bolstered by the 9/11 issue and its proponents in Italy are strengthened by the support they receive from the US government, it also draws upon
the political differences within the Italian government, which includes both fascists and communists - political elements which exhibit a much greater difference from each other than the US Democrats and Republicans. The level of political tension in Italy is substantially higher compared to the US, laying the groundwork for more robust political expression.
The anti-American posture does closely support an anti-globalization posture, given the close association between globalization and America, and thus tends to make anti-globalization related expressions stronger in Europe, where being more or less anti-American is quite a "normal" position to take, and is also exploited by the ruling class for their own purposes.
The more homogenous and diffusely monolithic political culture in the US renders political expression rather flat and uninspiring, as people have nothing to "latch on to" by way of a point of dissent or opposition.
Of course, given the right conditions, large protests can take place anywhere, including the US, but over the past several years, conditions for this have been much more ripe in Europe.
Americans and American culture is by nature extremely violent and contentious, and so it is certainly not antithetical to large rowdy protest, but in recent years that element of American culture has not found expression in the political arena, given the sterile condition of the latter.
Along the same lines, I don't think that imitating Europe is an option for activists in the US, because the relevant conditions found in Europe cannot be reproduced here.
I think that the sense of inauthenticity of available political forms and of the resistance that embraces such forms -- the big picture, as it were -- renders people unwilling to commit to a political course and leaves them pigeonholed into sundry private forms of revolution-making, which naturally cannot go beyond the speculative level.
I think the issue here is more political than cultural.
Thus, while the Italian government may have done everything it could to limit dissent in Genoa, elements of the Italian government provided overt support, housing, etc. to the protesters, as did other mainstream political organization in Europe.
With the Bossi-Fini law protest, while it does fit partially within an "anti-American" context, insofar as it is bolstered by the 9/11 issue and its proponents in Italy are strengthened by the support they receive from the US government, it also draws upon
the political differences within the Italian government, which includes both fascists and communists - political elements which exhibit a much greater difference from each other than the US Democrats and Republicans. The level of political tension in Italy is substantially higher compared to the US, laying the groundwork for more robust political expression.
The anti-American posture does closely support an anti-globalization posture, given the close association between globalization and America, and thus tends to make anti-globalization related expressions stronger in Europe, where being more or less anti-American is quite a "normal" position to take, and is also exploited by the ruling class for their own purposes.
The more homogenous and diffusely monolithic political culture in the US renders political expression rather flat and uninspiring, as people have nothing to "latch on to" by way of a point of dissent or opposition.
Of course, given the right conditions, large protests can take place anywhere, including the US, but over the past several years, conditions for this have been much more ripe in Europe.
Americans and American culture is by nature extremely violent and contentious, and so it is certainly not antithetical to large rowdy protest, but in recent years that element of American culture has not found expression in the political arena, given the sterile condition of the latter.
Along the same lines, I don't think that imitating Europe is an option for activists in the US, because the relevant conditions found in Europe cannot be reproduced here.
I think that the sense of inauthenticity of available political forms and of the resistance that embraces such forms -- the big picture, as it were -- renders people unwilling to commit to a political course and leaves them pigeonholed into sundry private forms of revolution-making, which naturally cannot go beyond the speculative level.
re Dean:
"First of all to the person from Sacramento, i think you are mistaken when you say that an anti-wef demo turned into an anti-war demp. 1. The event was always planned and annnouced as both anti-WEF and anti-war. 2. How can you differentiate between the two arms of the capitalist system-i.e. the military and the economic? The WEF is the conglomeration of the ruling class especially the capitalists themselves. Capitalism couldn't exist without the iron fist of the military machine, a major part of the state itself."
I was mistaken about the demo, it seems, my apologies. I regret my initial criticisms, and I think a big round of applause is due anybody who helped organize the thing, especially if it was a last-minute effort. The burritos were great, too.
My criticism of the anti-war slogans was directed at the cries of "we don't want your racist war." I think every "race war" is a class war in disguise. Bush and Co. do good business with Arabs. They just don't happen to like anybody who threatens their seat of power, who happen to be, in this case, militant Muslims. Capitalists like militant Muslims when they're fighting Soviets, they don't like them when they're blowing up our buildings. It's a class war, not a race war. I should've taken initiative and yelled something similar at the demo.
"First of all to the person from Sacramento, i think you are mistaken when you say that an anti-wef demo turned into an anti-war demp. 1. The event was always planned and annnouced as both anti-WEF and anti-war. 2. How can you differentiate between the two arms of the capitalist system-i.e. the military and the economic? The WEF is the conglomeration of the ruling class especially the capitalists themselves. Capitalism couldn't exist without the iron fist of the military machine, a major part of the state itself."
I was mistaken about the demo, it seems, my apologies. I regret my initial criticisms, and I think a big round of applause is due anybody who helped organize the thing, especially if it was a last-minute effort. The burritos were great, too.
My criticism of the anti-war slogans was directed at the cries of "we don't want your racist war." I think every "race war" is a class war in disguise. Bush and Co. do good business with Arabs. They just don't happen to like anybody who threatens their seat of power, who happen to be, in this case, militant Muslims. Capitalists like militant Muslims when they're fighting Soviets, they don't like them when they're blowing up our buildings. It's a class war, not a race war. I should've taken initiative and yelled something similar at the demo.
hey all,
i wasn't in sf for the solidarity demo because i was in ny. while folks were planning on how to get to ny, the planning for something in sf got tossed aside. i saw the half black/half white anti-war/anti-wef flyer on the street, picked it off the post and made 100 photocopies. i gave it to my friend who wasn't going to be able to make it to ny, and he and a couple other folks tried to get some people they new to the demo on sat. and did a little posting too. problem is, that was on wednesday....
another problem with the organizing was that there was no contact info on the flyer that i mentioned above. it would have been helpful to be able to get in touch with whoever had the initiative to make it so people interested could talk about how to organize together to get more folks out.
now i don't think that it had to be organized by one group. the best way this thing could be organized in my opinion, is if different groups were actually organizing autonomously, but could at least get in touch with each other to coordinate times, etc. there needn't be one political message at a demo. bring your puppets, come out hippies, come out punks, whatever....
all in all, for the poorly publicized event that it was it seemed like it turned out ok.
i think it would have made more sense to try to coordinate something with the macy's protest which actually might have had some local impact, while drawing connections to (global) capitalism and the war.
let's stop bitching though and start organizing...we have a fucking war to win too you know.
i wasn't in sf for the solidarity demo because i was in ny. while folks were planning on how to get to ny, the planning for something in sf got tossed aside. i saw the half black/half white anti-war/anti-wef flyer on the street, picked it off the post and made 100 photocopies. i gave it to my friend who wasn't going to be able to make it to ny, and he and a couple other folks tried to get some people they new to the demo on sat. and did a little posting too. problem is, that was on wednesday....
another problem with the organizing was that there was no contact info on the flyer that i mentioned above. it would have been helpful to be able to get in touch with whoever had the initiative to make it so people interested could talk about how to organize together to get more folks out.
now i don't think that it had to be organized by one group. the best way this thing could be organized in my opinion, is if different groups were actually organizing autonomously, but could at least get in touch with each other to coordinate times, etc. there needn't be one political message at a demo. bring your puppets, come out hippies, come out punks, whatever....
all in all, for the poorly publicized event that it was it seemed like it turned out ok.
i think it would have made more sense to try to coordinate something with the macy's protest which actually might have had some local impact, while drawing connections to (global) capitalism and the war.
let's stop bitching though and start organizing...we have a fucking war to win too you know.
one year later its nice to see that we have moved forward, criticisms have been integrated into what is going on, and new cooperation is happening.
y
a
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