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Indybay Feature

An Interview with Sherman of RTF /

by mark
An interview with Sherman, formerly of and, whose home was raided by the LA Joint Terrorism Task Force on Jan. 24; the websites were shutdown and his computers confiscated. Sherman denies involvement with any illegal activity, saying of the Feds, "They're afraid. And they're going to try and silence us any way they can. ... My best advice is to not give in to their fear-tactics. Keep fighting, and fight hard. Don't stop."
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 15:15:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Arm The Homeless <>
To: mark burdett <>
Subject: Re: please relay: questions for Sherman
[Ed. note: This e-mail interview is reproduced uncut and unabridged. Only spelling, punctuation, and basic grammar have been corrected.]

Hello, feel free to publish my responses to your questions anywhere.

Was there any warning that investigation of your website was heating up?

Yes. I have been monitoring government agencies connecting to the site for a long time. I'd been noticing more frequency with them coming back to the site. They had also started intercepting all packets on my DSL line, and seized one of my older AIM screen names for 12 days, so I knew something was going to happen - soon. It was really obvious. I even saw them outside my house at times. They have been monitoring the site very, very extensively LONG before the "incriminating content" which they were "concerned" about was posted onto the site. They simply used this content as an excuse to obtain a warrant for the raid.

As a victim of one of the first post-Patriot Act anti-"terrorism" raids, why do you think the Feds chose you?

Simply because Raisethefist was effective in what I was doing. It's the same reason why Feds raid other activist organizations. They're effective. And effectiveness within our movement scares them. They're afraid. And they're going to try and silence us any way they can.

Do you have a copy of the warrant that was served? What did it say they were looking for?

I cannot post any contents of the warrant online. Yes I have a copy of it. The warrant contains a lot of bogus information and misinterpretations. The warrant has information on me since I was 14 (I'm 18 now, almost 19).

Any idea how many agents/officers participated in the raid?

Yep, there was about 25-30 of them. They surrounded my house with guns. Blocked off the garage door with a big bench, had a door bammer, had cars all up and down the streets, then 2 agents knocked at my door, pulled me outside, and the FBI came in and raided. My sister and her friends were home at the time, and she refused to answer the door. I was currently taking a nap and she woke me up to tell me that there were police and undercover/FBI people all up and down the streets looking at the house. That's when I got up and approached the door.

Can you remember any exact quotes that the agents told you - what precisely did they say about 9-11, your web site, what they were looking for, etc.

They told me the main reason for the raid was because of the content on the site, and they wanted to see who was looking at it. This was not the main reason. It was an excuse. The alledged content which they claim they were so concerned about is from the Reclaim Guide. It's posted on thousands of other web sites around the internet. Why didn't they raid those? Why did they only come after Again, they've been watching the site for a long time, long before the Reclaim Guide was even posted onto the site. They used this as an excuse to get a warrant for the raid and seize all computer equipment. I can't discuss the specifics over the internet, but I know for sure that they didn't raid simply because they wanted to see who was looking at the content on the site.

[Ed. note: The Reclaim Guide does not appear to be readily available elsewhere, in its entirety, although the topics covered are.]

One of the first things one of the head agents conducting the raid asked me was, "why did you grow your hair out?" The picture they have of me is a bit older when I had short hair. They were acting as if I was trying to "hide my appearance" from them. They then sat me down, started asking me questions, etc. All this while the FBI was in my house with guns drawn, and seizing all computer equipment.

The FBI, Secret Service, LAPD and LASD (Sheriffs Dept.) participated in the raid. The Secret Service person kept asking me if I'd like to see Bush killed. They were asking me a lot of loaded questions.

What exactly did the agents take? How many computers and how much was it all worth? What were some titles of the books, literature, and other items they confiscated?

I have about 12 computers. About 8 of them were running on the network. They took all of the computers in my house which had a hard drive in them. Which was basically all of them, except for the few broken ones which I was working on fixing. So yeah, they basically took everything. They ransacked my entire room. I don't have any more computers. They took all the hubs, DSL modem, etc., etc. I had thousands of dollars worth of equipment which was seized until further notice. They told me I probably won't be getting it back for a while (I doubt I ever will be) because they have to go through all of the files on all of the hard drives, which is a lot of data.

They also confiscated all of my political liturature. Everything from independent political newspapers to protest flyers, etc., etc.

Why do you think the FBI raided Do you think they were out to shutdown something unique to your site, such as the photos of undercover cops?

They raided it simply because it was effective. It had a lot of potential, and was really moving, not just as a web site, but essentially as an anarchist/activist collective - kids were starting to set up clubs in their schools called "Raisethefist" - we were also beginning to put together an anarchist collective for Los Angeles, amongst other things. I believe one of the main things that got them scared about the site, is that we called for an actual change. Raisethefist was a bit more radical than other web sites, and seeing how it was getting so popular, they wanted to shut it down.

Based on what the agents told you, and your suspicions, do you have any idea if other participants or contributors to the website, or other websites, are also under investigation?

Yes. Those whose web sites I was hosting on the server will most likely be under investigation. How soon, or how much, I don't know. It could be going on right now. But i can't confirm. As far as I know, they are pretty overwhelmed with all the paperwork and other stuff they have to do with me, so who knows. I just advise those to be careful. Nothing illegal was being done, but the FBI likes to interpret things with a lot of prejudice against anarchists/activists, especially now after 9-11.

Did have any external backup? Do you expect to get your computers back any time soon? Do you have any plans to resume web operations?

I had the site backed up on a CD-ROM, which they took. Right now, we're just trying to find bits and pieces of the site in peoples cache so we can get it back up as soon as possible. There are people working on getting the site back up on another host. Getting the site back up is the first step, then trying to resume with it is the second step. It's going to take some time to get everything back together. I put alot of time into programming all of the things into the site. I don't think I'm going to get my computer equipment back. If I do, it won't be for a long time. They already told me that I probably won't be seeing any of it any time soon. They also told me that i was in some "serious trouble," etc., etc.

A webposting states that you are "a kid" who lives with his parents. Any comment as to whether you are under or over 18, and who you live with?

I'm 18 years old, almost 19. I currently live with my mom. The computers were also used for my job. I've been supporting myself through them doing independent programming. So not only is gone, but I'm out of a job for the time being.

By the way, there are a lot of stupid-ass rumors going on out there. I think I heard one about someone saying I was making "weapons of mass destruction" or something. Just shows the ignorance amongst a lot of people out there.

Do you think the Bush Administration is just trying to see what it can get away with? What would you predict will be the outcome of this episode?

They're going to try and get away with anything, and everything.

What does the future hold?

Nothing but a barcode.

What can we do to protect ourselves?

This was one of the main concerns addressed. My best advice is to not give in to their fear-tactics. Keep fighting, and fight hard. Don't stop.

With a newly-empowered FBI, is the web perhaps too open a medium for revolutionary expression? Are there alternatives whether through new technology or the lack thereof?

There is less security on the internet, as there really has never been any. But I'd suggest not to be discouraged by it. Keep utilizing the internet as an information resource.

by Mark Bialkowski (mbiSalkowPski [at] rogAers.coM)
My money's on that "weapons" page being the one that gave the FBI the excuse they were looking for to take down the site.

Not that I couldn't find that info on fifteen other sites... I'm half-tempted to prove it, too.

A lesson in keeping offsite backups, I suppose. I heard Sherman kept a page of logged hits from police and military sources - anyone have a copy of that lying around?
by scapegoat
"Although most of you out there, most citizens of this great country, support your government and your President in this important decision, there are those dissenters who do not. Individuals, many of them, unfortunately, young, and groups who have chosen to take the law into their own hands. Who have decided that the decision-making power in this country should rest not in the Executive Branch, but in the mob; not in the halls of Congress, but in the streets of Berkeley; not in the chamber of the Supreme Court, but in the barrel of a gun.

"And we cannot allow this.

"These groups, aided in many cases by money and training from abroad, are undermining the freedoms--the traditional freedoms--of this country. And they must be stopped. "
by Anonymous
Isn't taking the law into our own hands all about democracy?
by Mark Bialkowski (mbiaSlkowPAski [at] rogers.coM)
I just had a scary thought.

First, notice that this incident hasn't hit the mainstream media yet.

Second, the feds didn't strike until a page documenting how to construct simple weapons went up.

Third, there's a protest coming up next weekend, and the media's been preparing the public to expect something just short of a civil war.

Put it all together folks... I smell a trap. I smell a big trap. The pieces are falling into place.

Makes it all the more important to stand up at WEF. Stand up, not trash the joint. Next weekend, IMHO, won't be the time for "symbolic destruction." Next weekend will be the time to prove demonstrators are not the violent, destructive force the New York media is preparing everyone to expect, in anticipation of the Heroic Response from the Cops Who Saved New York.

Am I just being paranoid?
by *
Democracy about taking the law into your own hands?

Where did you read that?

Sounds more like some concept of vigilante justice.

Excuse my general ignorance -- I've no idea what's going on, other then what I've read here, but, it appears that Sherman is out and about, even though his place was raided. That's good. I've never been to the site, so, don't know what was happening there prior to the raid. I've only seen a few of the cached pages. The story caught my interest, because of 1st Amendment concerns.

Another poster commented on the weapons page, and that would also be my guess, as to why a raid was conducted.

Anyway, as far as weaponry -- in case anybody is/was actually thinking of using them....why be martyrs? Y'all are outgunned by the police and especially the fed gov't, no matter what ya arm yourselves with.

It's my opinion, that folks are better off going the "ghandi" route, if they're trying to make some sort of radical statement, political or otherwise.

That's more likely to garner some sympathy from the general public, and, the activist is more likely to live to try and get his or her message across again.

It's one thing to own a gun (legally), just in case things were to get really bad, and "they" started dragging folks off to concentration camps. Then, if the "SS" were to come for people in their homes, to take 'em off to a labor prisons and/or concentration camps, folks could legitimately take a couple down in self-defense.

Join the NRA or some other RKBA organization, maybe?

That might act as a detterent against tyranny, perhaps.

But, disseminating info about how to make fertilizer bombs and what not probably makes them justifiably nervous in todays politcal climate. Or, is this a case of scapegoating? Who knows.

>They're afraid. And they're going to try and silence us any way they can.

Putting myself in "their" shoes for a moment, it's hard to picture "them" as frightened. And, setting aside 1st Amendment issues for a second's only speculation, but, maybe "they" are just concerned that somebody imbalanced would use that info to blow something (or some people) up? They could be frightened that they'll get blamed for not taking some sort of action before hand, too.

Anyway, I hope this wasn't some sort of scapegoating move that sets a precedent that will be used as justification for further crackdowns on the rights of dissenters and folks who have unpopular political beliefs.
by Mark Bialkowski (mbiSalkowPski [at] rogerAs.coM)
In fact, that's *exactly* what I was getting at. Remember back before Quebec City, when a group of protesters was arrested with what amounted to firecrackers, and they were displayed as evidence of a violent streak among the demonstrators? I believe the group was called "Germinal".

I think this is what's taking place now; the FBI preparing to build a case against demonstrators before the demonstrations even begin. And since certain police forces haven't been above inserting provocateurs into crowds, the most obvious case being the Barcelona police force's inept attempts to start a riot back in July during the anti-WEF demonstrations. There are persistent claims that "Black Bloc" demonstrators in Genoa were seen meeting and talking with police, or spotted in groups outside police stations with no harassment.

Just... be prepared, and bring a lot of cameras, aimed at the police.
by Griff
"Putting myself in "their" shoes for a moment, it's hard to picture "them" as frightened. And, setting aside 1st Amendment issues for a second's only speculation, but, maybe "they" are just concerned that somebody imbalanced would use that info to blow something (or some people) up? They could be frightened that they'll get blamed for not taking some sort of action before hand, too. "

Gee - considering that recipes for gunpowder, fertilizer bombs, pipe bombs, and many, many other homemade weapons are readily available on the 'net by searching "Anarchist's Cookbook", I find it your argument at best a bit thin.
by *

Just asking.... do you get off on the idea of them being frightened? Is it a power trip thing? Or no?

"They could be frightened that they'll get blamed for not taking some sort of action before hand, too." -- Perhaps I should've continued with, "in case somebody used the info to build a bomb that caused serious injuries or fatalities".

I'm aware that pyrotechnical and bomb making stuff is available. I heard of the Anarchist's Cookbook before it was even available on the Internet.

If some kid -- who happened to be sociopathic -- downloaded the info off the site, blew up a building, or threw some pipe bombs into a crowd, etc., was apprehended and later admitted that he got the info at the raisedfist site, at least it's on record now, that they made a move to shut the site down. In other words, their bases are covered, in the event that there was any public outcry. That was part of the subtext of my post, even though I wasn't very clear on that point. It's also possible they were genuinely concerned.

That said, let me make it clear, that I'm against censorship. I'm just speculating on motives.

I wasn't trying to make any specific arguments. Just speculating. Scapegoating was a large part of the speculation too, even though you only zeroed in on one portion of the post. I would consider Mark Bialkowski's post as some serious food for thought
by marco
the ara I participated in now and again in colorado prings many years ago used to put pictures of nazis
on all the telephone poles.
When there were three of us doing it we got beat up
a couple times, but when we empowered half the
high school kids and almost as much of the local
unitarian church's youthgroup to all join in, it caused
the western hammerskins to move back up to denver
instead of thinking they had a cushy place to hang
Sherman's been one of what, maybe a dozen
people total exposing undercover c0intelpr0
rat bastards.
What if over the next couple weeks like wildfire
thousands and then tens of thousands of us just
started taking that responsibility into our own hands
too and we started say notebooks in the back seat
of our cars, camcorders in our daypacks ready to
roll, etc. and just got in the habit.
This is what Philip Agee was hoping for with the CIA
spooks and he managed to stop a few wars that way
it seems but again since it was only him and a couple
dozen people starting Covert Action Information
Bulletin and the Naming Names column and stuff,
they managed to do a fairly effective smear, mis/
disinfo harrassment campaign against him and his
And of course since then there's become
bit.listserv.cloaks-daggers over at usenet too now.
And that's been spreading like wildfire as well.
You know, when John Ryan was supposed to
follow Brian Willson around for his FBI job he ended
up learning so much peace and justice stuff from
Willson he ended up not just quitting the stupid
incompetent FBI agency, but he dropped out of
society, joined a catholic worker community out near
peoria illinois and became a war tax resister as well.

Alls I can say is

that shit needs to spread, yo.

Like wildfire. Quite transparent, in your face,
relentless and faster than they can do much more

by Spider Jerusalem
My $0.02 cents.

Firstly, bomb-making info is no more criminal than gun-smithing info, or martial arts info, or Navy SEALs training videos. It's public INFORMATION, a thing that we all as adults have a right to possess and disseminate.

1st Ammendment of the Constitution - highest law of the land. Cops and judges won't obey the law, so why aren't they labeled "vigilantes" too?

Secondly, a man who has a bomb can be said to be "armed", thus a bomb is an armament. Hello, the right to keep and bear ARMS? As in weapons, of any kind. There's nothing magical about fire arms vs any other kind of armament. Knives, bricks, wet noodles, it doesnt matter - if you can hurt or even kill with it, and you keep/carry it for that reason, it's a weapon and you're thusly armed.

The 2nd Ammendment - again, part of the highest law of the land. And a good law, too. The founding fathers knew from experience that centralized govt cannot be trusted. Thus the ban against having any kind of standing army, and the reliance upon a militia (an armed citizenry, capable only of gathering for self defense).

You aren't comfortable with some "sociopath" being able to arm himself? TOUGH FUCKING LUCK, because until he's crossed the line he has the very American right to keep and bear arms, mein furher. And why is he a sociopath? Just because he advocates violence against those who initiate violance (the FBI, IRS, BATF, SS)? Sounds like he respects a perfectly good set of rules - like the rule that he should be allowed to live his life unharrassed if he lets others live likewise.

Sherman would make a better neighbor than you.

As for the FBI trying to cover their ass, if Idiot A gets blown up by a bomb made by Idiot B and Idiot A blames the FBI for not castrating every American male at birth to prevent such things, that's all very shitty but it hardly gives the FBI any right to then begin the castrations just to "cover their own ass".

Suppose you had 2 daughters (I have no idea what family you might have), and some prick holds a gun to my head and tells me that either I kick the living shit out of your little girls or he'll mortify me. Can I use the same excuse? "Hey, just covering my own ass. It's nothing personal."

This is in no way meant as a threat to you or your family. UNLIKE YOU, I respect the rights of others. I'd rather take the bullet than save my own sorry skin by doing the dirty work of some coward who won't do his own.

Sherman saw the need for Americans to arm themselves in defense of their rights. If you don't see that need, let your wife grow a certain harmless green plant in her herb garden, then wake up and smell the flash-bangs as the morality police steal your house and car for auction. And while you're brushing the glass off your daughters' tear-streaked faces, good luck trying to explain why mommy isn't coming back for 5-10 years.

insensitive bastard who will someday be likewise arrested for talking like this. Maybe soon. Maybe even tomorrow morning.
by mili
i saw the list months ago.... it was very, very, very long..
by J. Roth
This guy is the same type of scum as Timothy McVeigh. Someone who thinks you can change the world around yourself with violence.

Thanks to the feds for removing his stuff, and I hope the bastard will serve the rest of his pathetic life behind bars.
by path (rhizomix [at]
Hey hey, could this be some of what they took down from the site... I had it saved as a text file. Enjoy.

Raise the Fist

Break The Bank-DC S30 2001

This was developed as a means to inspire and inform participants of the upcoming action in DC against the International Monetary Fund and The World Bank. We are assuming that you already have knowledge about the IMF/World Bank and why we feel the need to disrupt their engagements. With this convergence comes alot of holes in the security and safety of participants. The information within these pages is to hopefully further the process of filling these holes. Stay safe. Stay free. Stay resistant!

Security Culture

The first step in recognizing security risks in a community is working towards creating a security culture. Below we have compiled some relevant materials and links that should be used in conducting security workshops and educating activists that you work with. As our direct action movement becomes more effective, government harassment will only increase. To minimize the destructiveness of this government harassment, it is imperative that we create a "security culture" within our movement. Violations of security culture include behavior is inappropriate because it intensifies government harassment, jeopardizes the freedom of other activists, and destroys the trust within the movement.

Security Culture: What is it, Why we need it and How to Implement it...

Luddites; liberationists; abolitionists; union organizers; revolutionaries... From large uprisings challenging the entire political structure, to isolated environmental and social struggles, people have constanly worked to create a better world. To government the response has always been to jail activists and revolutionaries using the courts and the police forces at hand.

As direct action movements become more effective, government surveillance and harassment will increase. To minimize the destructiveness of this political repression, it is imperative that we create a security culture within our movement.

This pamphlet is essential reading for anyone who is associated with groups that advocate and/or utilize sabotage, theft, arson and more militant tactics. The advice herein also applies to anyone who is associated with groups that practice civil disobedience, especially since membership often overlaps and gossip travels freely between groups.

Even if you have never picked up a monkeywrench or been arrested, even if you think you have nothing to hide, these guidelines will enhance your personal safety as well as the movement¹s overall effectiveness. Surveillance has been set up on all sections of political movements in the past. Governments in the western industrialized world have targeted groups that have advocated sabotage and groups that have not, movements that have been militant and movements that have been markedly pacificst. The government¹s security machinery serves political and economic objectives, and there are over 250 political prisoners in Canada and the US that can testify to this from firsthand experience. By adoption a security culture, we can defeat various counterintelligence operations that would otherwise disrupt both mainstream organizing and underground resistance.


It¹s a culture where the people know their rights and, more importantly, assert them. Those who belong to a security culture also know what behaviour compromises security and they are quick to educate those people who, out of ignorance, forgetfulness, or personal weakness, partake in insecure behaviour. This security consciousness becomes a culture when the group as a whole makes security violations socially and morally unacceptable in the group.


To begin with, there are certain things that are inappropriate to discuss.

These things include:

-Your involvement or someone else¹s involvement with an undergound group
-Someone else¹s desire to get involved with such a group
-Asking others if they are a member of an underground group
-Your participation or someone else¹s participating in any action that was illegal
-Someone else¹s advocacy for such actions
-Your plans or someone else¹s plans for a future action

Can you see a pattern? What all of these are stating is this: it is wrong to speak about a specific individual's involvement (past, present or future) with illegal activities. These are unacceptable topics of discussion regardless of whether it is rumor, speculation or personal knowledge. Please note: no one is claiming it is wrong to speak about direct action in general terms. It is perfectly legal, secure and desirable that people speak out in support of mokeywrenching and all forms of resistance. The danger lies in linking individual activists to specific actions or groups.


There are only three times that it is acceptable to speak about this information. The first situation would be if you were planning an action with other members of your small group (your ³cell² or ³affinity group²). However, you would never discuss these things over the Internet (email), phone line, through the mail, or in an activist's home or car, as these places and forms of communication are frequently monitored. The only people who should hear this discussion would include those who are actively partaking in the action. Anyone who is not involved does not need to know and, therefore, should not know.

The second exception occures after an activists has been arrested and brought to trial. If she is found guilty, this activist can freely speak of the actions for which she was convicted. However, she must never give information that would help the authorities determine who else participated in illegal activities.

The third exception is for anonymous letters and interviews with the media. This must be done very carefully and without compromising security. Advice on secure communication techniques can be found in other publications.

Those are the only situations when it is appropriate to speak about your own or someone else's involvement or intent to commit illegal direct action.


Veteran activists only allow a select few to know about their involvement with direct action groups. And those few consist of the cell members who they do the actions with AND NO ONE ELSE!

The reason for these security precautions is quite obvious: if people don't know anything, they can't talk about it. It also means that only the people who know the secret can also face jail time if the secret gets out. But when activists who do not share the same serious consequences knows who did an illegal direct action, they are far more likely to talk after being harassed and intimidated by the authorities, because they are not the ones who will go to jail. Even those people who are trustworthy can often be tricked by the authorities into revealing damaging and incriminating information. So it is safest for all cell members to keep their involvement in the group amongst themselves. The fewer people who know, the less evidence there is to bust them.


In an attempts to impress others, activists may behave in ways that compromise security. Some people do this frequently - they are habitually gossiping and bragging. Some activists say inappropriate things only when they consume alcohol. Many activists make occasional breeches of security because there was a momentary temptation to say something or hint at something that shouldn¹t have been said or implied. In most every situation, the desire to be accepted is the root cause.
Those people who tend to be the greatest security risks are those activists who have low self-esteem and strongly desire the approval of their peers. Certainly it is natural to seek friendship and recognition for our efforts, but it is imperative that we keep these selfish desires in-check so we do not jeopardize the safety of other activists or ourselves. People who place their desire for friendship over the importance of the cause can do serious damage to our security.

The following are examples of security-violating behaviours:

Lying: To impress others, liars claim to have done illegal actions. Such lies not only compromise the person's security--as cops will not take what is said as a lie--but also hinders movement solidarity and trust.

Gossiping: Some weak characters think they can winare privy to special information. These gossips will tell others about who did what action or, if they don't know who did it, guess at who they think did what actions or just spread rumors about who did it. This sort of talk is very damaging. People need to remember that rumors are all that are needed to instigate a grand jury.

Bragging: Some people who partake in illegal direct action might be tempted to brag about it to their friends. If someone did such a thing, it would not only jeopardize the bragger's security, but also that of the other people involved with the action (as they may be suspected by association), as well as the people who he told (they can become accessories after the fact). An activist who brags also sets a horrible example to other activists.

Indirect-Bragging: Indirect-braggers are people who make a big production on how they want to remain anonymous, avoid protests, and stay "underground." They might not come out and say that they do illegal direct action, but they make sure everyone within ear-shot knows they are up to something. They are no better than braggers, but they try to be more sophisticated about it by pretending to maintain "security." However, if they were serious about security, they would just make up a good excuse as to why they are not as active, or why they can't make it to the protest (that kind of lying is acceptable).


With what we now know about security, it is easy to spot those activists who compromise our movement¹s security. So what do we do with people who exhibit these behaviours? Do we excommunicate them from our movement? Actually, no--at least, not for a first offense.

The unfortunate truth is there are numerous security-ignorant people in the movement and others who have possibly been raised in a "scene" that thrives on bragging and gossiping. It doesn't mean these people are bad, but it does mean they need to be educated. Even seasoned activists can make mistakes when there is a general lack of security consciousness inour gruops. And that¹s where those of you who are reading this can help. We must NEVER let a breach in security occur without acting to correct it. If an acquaintance of yours is bragging about doing an action or spreading security-compromising gossip, it is your responsibility to explain to her or him why that sort of talk violates security and is inappropriate.

You should strive to educate this person in a manner that encourages him to listen and to change his behaviour. It should be done without damaging his pride. You should be humble and sincerely interested in helping him to become a better person and a more effective activists. Do not maintain a "holier than-thou" attitude. This attitude will inevitably raise his defenses and prevent him from absorbing or using any of the advice you offer. Remember, the goal of educating people is to change their behavior, not boost your ego by showing them how much more security-conscious you are.

If possible the educational session be done in private, so the person does not have to contend with the humiliation of a public reprimand. The educational reprimand should also be done as soon as possible after the mistake to increase its effectiveness.

If each of us takes on the responsibility of educating those who slip up, we can dramatically improve movement security. Once people recognize lying, gossiping, bragging, and indirect-bragging as the damaging character-flaws that they are, they will soon end. When we develop a culture where all breaches of security result in an immediate reprimand, all sincere activists will quickly get with the program.


So what do we do with activists who repeatedly violate security precautions even after multiple educational sessions? It's unfortunate, but the best thing to do with these people is cut them loose and kick them out of our meetings, basecamps and organizations. With law enforcement budgets on the increase and with courts handing down long sentences for political ³crimes², the stakes are too high to allow chronic security-offenders to work among us.

Black Bloc

The Black Bloc has gained alot of publicity in the past two years. What people dont understand is that the Black Bloc is not an organization or a group. It is a tactic. It helps reinforce security and execute our goal in the presence of high-profile demonstrations. From Seattle WTO to the most recent action in Genoa, the Black Bloc has certainly been the main focus by the media and the police in major demonstrations. Therefore, it is necessary to introduce newer and better tactics into the struggle. Be creative. Build off the info on this site and never give up.

So What Is A Black Bloc?

The Black Bloc is a tactic that has been used in demonstrations for years. It is used as a security and safety measure. In it's essential form, each participant of a Black Bloc wears somewhat of a uniform (see the Clothing section). The idea of wearing this uniform is that if every single person in the Bloc looks relatively alike, it is hard for the police to determine which individual did what. For instance, if a Black Bloc participant throws a brick at a store window and runs into the Bloc, she will easily blend in with everyone else. However, if a person wearing normal street clothes happens to throw a brick and run into the Bloc, chances are that she will have been filmed or photographed and later caught by the police.

Also, since Anarchist presence has been a very hot issue in the past few years, law enforcement has been known to film and take photos of random activists and keep files on those individuals. This can lead to problems in the future. It's better to be safe than in jail.


The clothing worn by Black Bloc participants is very easy to acquire. You may even have these clothes in your own home. Any logos or patches must be removed one way or another to have any effect in using the Black Bloc tactic.

Black Hooded Sweatshirt-The black hooded sweatshirt offers great protection in many ways. It protects the back of the neck and sides of the head from pepper spray and other chemical agents. Police often occupy rooftops and use helicopters in order to gain overhead perspective when filming and photographing the Bloc. The hooded sweatshirt helps protect you from these perspectives by covering your head and therefore making it difficult to draw any distinctions. Again, all logos, patches, or anything else that can help the police distinguish you from anyone else should be removed or left at home.

Black Pants-Average black workers pants are fine. Black military-style cargo pants are extremely recommended. The cargo pockets can hold any items of use that you may have. Also, the ties on the side are great for de-bloc'ing (see de-bloc'ing section). All distinguishing characteristics must be removed.

Running or Tennis Shoes-A good pair of sneakers are the best investment here. Big heavy boots may be difficult to leave the scene in. However, this is just a recommendation.

Masks-One of the most important aspects of the uniform. The mask you wear should show nothing more than your eyes. We advise that you DO NOT wear a mask that will give you tunnel vision, like a cat; that is, a mask that will cut off your vision from what is beside you. There are many different kinds of recommended masks:

Ski Mask-A simple, inexpensive find at any sporting goods or army-navy store. We recommend the masks that only have holes for your eyes. However, if you can only find the kind with the three holes (two for the eyes, one for the mouth) then that will work. Just take a black piece of cloth and fill the hole.
Bandana-An average black bandana that is tied around your mouth will work too. When choosing this mask, please wear something over the top part of your head, such as a beanie or another bandana. If your hair and rest of your upper head are exposed, it is not hard to tell who you are.
Gas Mask-A slightly more expensive mask, yet a useful one if you plan on engaging in some heavy street combat. Tear gas is a widely used deterrent in street battles, and we should not be forced to turn away from our goal because of some gas. However, we feel that in most cases the ones wearing the gas masks are the ones throwing the gas cannisters back. Wearing a gas mask is an illegal practice (like we care!) and should be worn with caution.
Homemade Mask-Homemade masks are easy to construct. You can use an old black t-shirt and wrap the fabric around your face. You can also cut off the sleeves and put those around your face. Be creative!


Unless you've been living in a primitivist mud hut your entire life, you know that going to demonstrations comes with the chance of arrest, especially with the Black Bloc. Unarresting is the practice of pulling our comrades back into safety from the arms of the officers.

Unarresting is a serious topic that needs to be discussed and practiced. It works best when we act fearless and the police are outnumbered. Here are some scenarios and possible solutions when unarresting:

Most Blocs use the tactic of linking arms. This way, when an officer tries to pull one of us away, it makes it difficult to pull the individual from the arms of another participant.

Often times, a demonstrator will get isolated from the group and suddenly be taken by an officer. Make sure that you and your affinity are on alert at all times for possible stragglers. Dont let anyone stray from the group! If someone does happen to stray and be detained, there are some things you can do if you act quickly. Quickly let everyone know what is happening and have your affinity run to the area of the situation. If the cop does not back away by the time you arrive to this situation, your group can fall on top of the person like a dog pile and more people will gather around the situation. Make sure you do not harm the person you are attempting to unarrest. You can also get a few people to simply pull him away from the officer.

Remember! Unarresting someone is a very risky circumstance. In some cases, you can be given a harsher charge than the person you are unarresting. Be smart. Dont get caught!

These days, police use the plastic zip ties instead of handcuffs for the basic reason that they are too expensive. When you go to a demonstration, put some fingernail clippers in your back pocket or an accessible place on your body. When the time is right, simply cut the ties and run like hell!


At all demonstrations, it's often that people are picked up on the way from an action. This has become a big problem. When leaving a demonstration, you should always leave wearing something different than how you came. Even if you have done nothing illegal, a pig can always pull you over and arrest you based on Conspiracy. These charges can hold up, especially if they find something on your person that can be interpreted as something that can be used for illegal purposes.

The only case I have heard of any group De-Bloc'ing was on August 16th, 2000 in Los Angeles during the Demon-cratic National Convention. The Black Bloc was seperated in half by the police while crossing an intersection. One half was shot at with 12-guage shotguns that held rubber bullets, while the other side decided that after an hour of confrontation with police they should de-Bloc and continue the march to the Staples Center.

For the de-Bloc'ing at the DNC, everyone huddled together and covered the group with the large banners that were used at the protest. The participants changed clothes underneath the banners so that the police could not photograph the individuals. When everyone had changed their clothes, other demonstrators were asked to gather around the group and then everyone emerged from the banners in their new clothes.

I think that the tactic of mass de-Bloc'ing is definately an issue that should be discussed. As far as walking away from the scene of a demonstration, remember not to ever be alone. If for some reason you came to the demonstration by yourself (which you should not do!), just ask a comrade that is in a large group if you can walk with them. There is nothing to be embarrassed about, and if the person you ask is a true comrade then they will welcome you.

Be creative. Think of some new ideas for de-Bloc'ing. Scope out the area of the demonstration before hand and find some good secure places to escape to.

Police Tactics and How To Defeat Them

The local, state and federal governments have unlimited tax dollars to use to control crowds at demonstrations and insurrections. We must develop ways to combat these technologies, and although we are in reality in a fight against technology, it would be naive to think we can use spears against these maniacs. Therefore, we need to find ways to eliminate police tactics. The following information are some common used tactics and best effective ways to beat them.

Riot Cop Gear and Equipment

To crush protests, police departments all over the world have invented countless methods. Some are new, others only adaptations of battle tactics from the ancient times. Just as importantly, new and much improved equipment has been issued to riot police squads, making them nearly unstoppable. On the right you can see how a regular American riot cop looked like at Seattle. In most European countries, similar equipment is used, although full body armor is not standard yet, therefore Plexiglas shields are used.

Much like a renaissance knight, a modern riot cop is wearing full body armor, heavy boots and a large helmet completely encasing the head and neck. He is practically invulnerable even to the hardest punches and kicks, as well as moderately protected against fire. Armed with a long baton and those killer boots, he can attack aggressively and efficiently.

What makes such a riot cop really effective, though, is constant radio communication. As you can see from the picture, each cop has two radio sets, one in the helmet and another for backup. This allows the riot police to coordinate their moves and sweep the streets with ease. If extra firepower is necessary, they can fire tear gas, rubber bullets or even deploy armored vehicles and water cannons.

Police Tactics and Their Defeat

Anyone with some knowledge of history can clearly see that most crowd control tactics are simply copied from ancient warfare. Riot police fight much like a Macedonian phalanx would back in 330 BC. There are adaptations, of course, but the basic concept is the same, meaning that similar countermeasures that had caused the demise of the phalanx as a military unit would have a similar effect if deployed nowadays against the police.
Most of the time, riot police are deployed in a long line formation, usually standing in front of important buildings or blocking streets. When these line formations are present, they are usually just one man deep, especially when they stand to protect property (see picture). These line formations only work when each officer is standing side by side to eachother. When dealing with narrow paths and small sidewalks, large obstacles (barricades) will split these line formations and cause their entire formation to fall apart.
When line formations have already formed, you can run your line into theirs.If they feel threatened, they can increase the distance between them and the protesters by firing tear gas, stun grenades and rubber bullets. Tear gas and pepper spray are also used to disperse crowds or at least soften them up prior to an attack. This where gas masks and shields come in. The police will not disperse any chemical agents unless they are wearing gas masks themselves. If they are wearing masks, and the Bloc is less than 20 feet away from the police formation, they will not fire tear gas cannisters because it may be damaging to the officers' safety. They will however disperse pepper spray. To protect yourself from being directly hit with pepper spray, shields are a good idea. Click here for shield construction methods. When pepper spray is dispersed in an area, it can cause lung and throat difficulties to everyone surrounding it, even if they have not been directly sprayed. For this, a large cloth soaked in vinegar works great. Make sure that you carry plenty of water. When you are sprayed or gassed, pour lots of water over the exposed area. Gas masks are another alternative, yet are not always safe, being that they are illegal and can get you a nice conspiracy charge.
In attack, the line formation usually advances only after tear gas has been fired. On the move, policemen tend to march fairly slowly, not just because of the heavy armor but because they have to maintain the original formation at all costs. Only if the protesters are fleeing the scene will they sometimes try to chase them down.

First of all, it soon became apparent that no government could suppress large-scale protests just with the elite riot police. Their equipment was just too expensive and inevitably, regular police forces had to be called in as well. Of course, riot police was always tasked with guarding only the vital objectives while the regular police would normally just perform less important duty. Protesters would often take advantage of that and split themselves in two groups. One would attack the poorly defended positions by hurling rocks and firebombs. Since regular police could not sustain that for any longer period of time, the riot police would have to come to their aid. Then the second group of protesters would attack the now much weakened main objectives and possibly seize them.
If more aggressive approach was desired, one group of protesters would lead the police in a trap by making a quick assault and falling back immediately afterwards, as if fleeing the scene. The police would usually pursue them haphazardly, falling easy prey to a flanking attack of other protesters who would suddenly rush out from side streets.


Barricades are a great tool in creating chaos in the streets. When line formations start to advance on the Bloc, or when vehicles are called in (like the armored tank in Seattle), barricades are a great way to stop them. Barricades can be created out of just about anything. In the past, the concrete has been torn from the ground and piled up in the streets. Construction sites have those neat little barricades that can be stolen at night time. Take one and add your own things to it: barbed wire, bricks, basically anything that is heavy. You can also liberate police barricades from the scene and pile them up. Cars can be wonderful barricades and can be easily set on fire. Once again, be creative. Its not that hard to make a wonderful barricade.
by *
SJ: "mein fuhrer"? Wow, didn't know I was your leader. I'm handing in my resignation, seeing as a never applied for the job in the first place.

Anyway, glad my post was of some use for you as a foil to vent your spleen....I have to ask though, do you suffer from a reading comprehension problem? How does speculating on a VARIETY of MOTIVES, equate to acquiescence of an action taken? You sure tried to put a lot of words in my mouth. How can I be anymore clear, then to say I'm against censorship? Do you think I was lying?

I'll address a couple things from your rantings.

>Firstly, bomb-making info is no more criminal than >gun-smithing info, or martial arts info, or Navy SEALs >training videos. It's public INFORMATION, a thing that we >all as adults have a right to possess and disseminate.

No shit Sherlock. You can even buy books on such topics at, if you want a bound version.

Like I said, you suffer from a reading comprehension problem.

>Secondly, a man who has a bomb can be said to be "armed", >thus a bomb is an armament. Hello, the right to keep and >bear ARMS? As in weapons, of any kind.

I'm not so about what the meaning of the 2nd Amendment is, regarding actually having any kind of bomb (or chemical weapons, anthrax, etc.). It does say something about "well regulated" in that there 2nd Amendment. That's open to many interpretations.

>"You aren't comfortable with some "sociopath" being able to >arm himself? TOUGH FUCKING LUCK, because until he's crossed >the line he has the very American right to keep and bear >arms, mein furher. And why is he a sociopath? Just because >he advocates violence against those who initiate violance >(the FBI, IRS, BATF, SS)? Sounds like he respects a
>perfectly good set of rules - like the rule that he should
>be allowed to live his life unharrassed if he lets others >live likewise."

I'm assuming the "he" you referred to in that paragraph is Sherman? I wasn't aware that violence was being advocated on the site. The site was openly advocating violence against the FBI, IRS, BATF, SS, etc? LOL ...welp *if* that's the case, I'm not too surprised that some 18 year old is getting his 15 minutes of fame.

(BTW, do you hate the FBI when they catch a serial killer, for example? A kidnapper? Etc? Or, are they only capable of perpetrating evil in your world?)

But anyhow, I wasn't calling anybody in particular a sociopath. I posted a hypothetical situation. Yet, it seems you read that I was leveling a charge against somebody in particular? But yeah, a sociopath would be somebody who crossed the line, thus demonstrating that they are a sociopath. Throwing pipebombs into a crowd, was an example I gave of crossing the line. Blowing up a building, could be another. Just for the sake of this discussion, do you think Tim McVeigh was a hero? (preemptive sidenote: At this juncture, I don't want to get into all the conspiracy theories that the gov't was the guiding hand and ultimately responsible for OKC the conspiracy scenario's, which range from McVeigh having an implant in his head that controlled his actions, to him having been a useful idiot, McVeigh couldn't be a hero to those who agree with him now could he, if he played a role knowingly or unknowingly, in a gov't conspiracy)

>As for the FBI trying to cover their ass...

Like I already said above, speculating on motives.

Not exactly related, but, a lot of people are blaming the gov't for not having been able to stop terrorists from flying planes into building (and some are blaming the gov't for actually doing the deed ...another opening for a debate about conspiracy theories, but that's another topic).

>Cops and judges won't obey the law, so why aren't they >labeled "vigilantes" too?

Good point, when applicable. There *are* cops and judges who obey the law. Maybe they're a rare breed in LA, though? (I don't live out that way, but read the news on occasion).

>UNLIKE YOU, I respect the rights of others.

I respect the rights of others. And, UNLIKE YOU, who is on an Internet soapbox raving about how good and moral he is, I'm not a self-aggrandizing asshole who demonizes potential allies, who otherwise might be in agreement with me on some things.

>insensitive bastard who will someday be likewise arrested >for talking like this. Maybe soon. Maybe even tomorrow >morning.

Got a bit of a persecution-victim complex goin' on, do ya? I expect when I check on this here thread sometime later tomorrow, that you'll have replied with some more of your gibberish, and won't have been arrested.
by SRH
If you truly put yourself in their shoes you would have no trouble discerning why they're scared. Lies and intrigue are the hallmarks of our times. Mistrust and dissallusionment are clearly on the rise. Think about history for just a bit and you will soon discover that this current state of the union can only end badly for those now in control. Wouldn't that scare you if you were them?
by James (jokickmehard [at]
what happened in los angeles is just an example of the loss of freedoms we have suffered and it is not going to stop there unless we the people of this great nation take back our freedoms and relieve the gov,t of the unlwful power they have taken from us!!!!

I for one will stand with anyone or group willing to stand up for our rights that have been stolen from us!

James Olsen
by DirectDemocrat
Why is SF Indymedia publishing these stories before LA indymedia? Is it more interested? Also does anyone have any idea why LA indymedia was so SSSLLLOOOOWWW on the day that the news about this broke? There was a lot of speculation about the SS/FBI messing about with LA indymedia because it *did* respond to pings, but it was not serving pages.

Also, with regard to the direct topic, props to Sherman for sticking with it and doing something moral. It is revolting that the police, FBI, etc. are spending all their time attacking people that advocate democracy and an escape from wage slavery. We've already seen what a crap job you bozos do defending us from foreign terrorism and what a good job you do assassinating and attacking civil-rights leaders, union organizers and other democrats. Yeah, this message is for you you degenerate, corrupt pinheads, get a real job like teaching or caring or cleaning or making. Democracies dont need secret police.
by Freedom
we must remain free.. we as individuals have certain rights. freedom of information most definately! noone is taking that from me.... it will be over my dead body.

by dave
Check the Internet Archive (the "Wayback Machine"). Some of your web site
has been archived at various points in time, it might help in reconstructing it.
Good luck!*/
by USA
Thats what you get for spreading violence and lies...your web site sucked, you were nothing but pathetic angry kids. That story about "it was achieving something, kids at scholl were forming raisethefist clubs" is bogus, like everything on your site. And dont play the victim, the "political prisioner", you were asking for it. USA

P.S - Indymedia?! Indy?! Independent from what? Political beleives? Dont make me laught, political bias is just as powerfull as money bias...
by Mark Bialkowski (mbSialPkowskAi [at] rogers.coM)
Independent from corporate and state ownership, and the influences inherent in such control. We have our own biases, personal and collectively, but we're pretty up-front with them.

by JoeyNormal
Two people were behind RTF. One lived in LA; Sherman. The other, who's not so monitorred is from...
by Anonymous
You don't know any of the people on rtf personally. I really think Sherman is the most progressive of all in our time. Hell, even progressive or not, the message is loud and clear.
by johnk
The problem was that all the DNS servers we used vanished. Not sure what's up, but that caused several thousand emails to clog the queue, and all that night's log analysis jobs to stall.

It was not the police sabotaging the machines.
by CrackHead
Im not too familiar with the site, but under current law, all and any publishing information for the purpose of INFORMATION is legal. Inteded to be used in a terrorist intent is another story, not that it seems that your site was in anyway intending people to go out and build bombs and get on som eplanes or anything. If I were you id enlist the EFF to help with the legistics of the computers and its ocntens getting recovered in a quick and legal fashion. Also, get the local and ANY media/news involved and make damn sure it gets published both paper back and electronic. Youll see real fast how much support you have! Good luck!!
by DD
Hey USA,
you should really join one of the raisethefist school anarchy clubs - you might learn something. (How do I know you are at school still? Simple, you can't spell and you are obviously ignorant of the constitution and the rights and duties of citizens contained in it. You are also obviously ignorant of the strong libertarian tradition of Freedom and Democracy and the struggles fought all through history. So, go to school , learn how to read and write, learn some history and learn what anarchy is. Until then don't bother posting your ignorant fascist scrawls).
by DD
Hey USA,
you should really join one of the raisethefist school anarchy clubs - you might learn something. (How do I know you are at school still? Simple, you are obviously ignorant of the constitution and the rights and duties of citizens contained in it. You are also obviously ignorant of the strong libertarian tradition of Freedom and Democracy and the struggles fought to acheive these all through history. So, go to school , learn some history and learn what anarchy is. Until then don't bother posting your ignorant fascist scrawls).
by noyb
First of all, Mumia is guilty as hell!

Second, whatever would posess any sane individual to post b%%b recipes? That really is encouraging terrorism. Do you think that when you threaten the feds that they are just going to ignore you? That's just not realistic: when you indicate that you are going to play for keeps, they will respond in kind -- they are not as stupid or ineffectual as you would like to pretend. People other than lefties read recipes as well -- ironically, the feds may have saved a lot of lefties from being from being maimed or worse by making this info less available.

If you had just stuck to your rhetorical dreck, you'd still be up and running. If the feds were as bad as you believe, you'd already have assumed room temp. If you ever did come into power, wouldn't you waste someone like you, someone "conspiring to harm the people's democratic blah blah blah?" In that sense you are less humane and moral than the present elite that you so love to hate.

by USA
1º Who said i was born here you nationalist? Who said english is my native language?

2º I know what anarchy is, i read it about it, and its a total utopian crapp.

3º Were i come from, people that talk about others people grammar to make a point are considered stupid.
by Chromodynamix
I may disagree with what you say, but will defend your right say it.
However, it does not give anyone the right to shout "FIRE" in a crowded theatre.
by miccy
by Cochisejuh
Does anyone have the full site on his/her hd? i may be able to get a host!!!
by raisethefist
good news - we found a 3 month old backup of on a remote host. However, it's going to cost $300.00 to obtain. We're pretty low on funds, so if anyone can help us raise that much money, please contact food_should_be_free [at] ..

pelase post something
by DirectDemocrat
Johnk, you say that the absence of the DNS servers caused mail to backup. Fine, I can see that. However have you considered how you would obtain info on people that are interested in raisethefist and indymedia if you were a spook with the Ashcroft-given right to seize records? If you remember a year or so ago the spooks cooked up a fake story about "dangerous information" being posted on indymedia in order to try and seize the site logs and get IPs from that. (Indymedia to their credit resisted that....I hope they hose those fscking things with a regular 'rm -rf' cronjob these days!) but it shows the intent.
Now, if I want to avoid the irrirtaing and embarrasing prospect of a court-case, ACLU etc., then what I would do would be to hijack the DNS servers and just make a copy of all packets that were routing through to indymedia or raisethefist. It would be EASY.
I hope that one of you guys can bring this up with the rest of the IMC team. It is hard to see what could be done about it. But it would be good to investigate the possibility that this is what's happening. (Yes it's a paranoid idea, no I am not paranoid).
Thanks for your answers above,
by Mark Bialkowski (mbialkowski [at] rogers.coMAPSBLOCK)
>(Indymedia to their credit resisted that....I hope they hose those fscking things with a regular 'rm -rf' cronjob these days!)

AFAIK, any IMCs run off stallman don't log anymore. After Quebec, it became too much of a potential liability. I'm not even sure if the Seattle tech team logged before Quebec, but once the FBI came calling, that just about cemented any argument against logging.

Beyond that, anyone's guess. A few leave cookies, which I block, and one or two have authentication for rating systems, but other than that it's anonymity all the way, up to the user's discretion. As you can see, I don't mind being watched. Maybe I'm just silly.

I don't suppose my fans in foreign or domestic intelligence would mind letting me know how many pages, if any, are in my RCMP/CSIS/FBI files? Do I even *have* files? Tankee, I won't say a word about what I find out (since chances are it'll be nothing but trolls responding, but can't hurt to ask:).

>Now, if I want to avoid the irrirtaing and embarrasing prospect of a court-case, ACLU etc., then what I would do would be to hijack the DNS servers and just make a copy of all packets that were routing through to indymedia or raisethefist. It would be EASY.

I'd think messing with the routing tables would be easier - not as easy to discover, you can stick hidden boxes on non-TCP/IP protocols between machines on your preferred route. If you just mean change what IP the name points to, why bother; that would be discovered the moment someone noticed they were getting bounced around IPs that made no sense. If you mean logging DNS lookups... they'd have to hijack a heck of a lot of servers; AFAIK, all of my lookups use Rogers' two downtown Toronto servers, with my university's as backup. I wouldn't put it past The Man, but there are easier, legal-if-unethical ways to do it.

One of the better ways to make it harder for intelligence to keep an eye on IMC visitors is to get more IMCs off stallman and on other machines, preferably in several nations, forcing the feds to blow resources watching many more routes at once.. Many already have their own machines... but I'm sure any spooks watching already know that.
by pervert
Mark B. wrote: "As you can see, I don't mind being watched. Maybe I'm just silly. "

Maybe your just an exhibitionist :)
by Melissa Lamadeleine (adnauseam [at]
It`s nothing to compare but I got raided at school once. I live in a small french canadian town near Ottawa heavily occupied by the OPP police, rednecks and white-trash church-goers that damn everything they don`t understand. I was reading a flyer that read STOP THE FTAA. I was planning on going to the Quebec city protests that April. One of the history teachers confiscated my flyer and searched my bag for more. They said it was terrorist propaganda, that I was part of some underground organization and they took away one of my books on the latest crimes of globalization.I told them that there was no freedom in their school system and that everything I knew I had to teach myself because of their regulations. The library forbid me to take out any book that could serve information on anarchy or any left-wing movement. I quickly changed school. After they advised my mother, (about my "activities") she did the best she could to keep me from going to Quebec.
The cops were only on my case about this once. They saw me kick down a sign that used democracy as a tool to pass the non-smoking bylaw in our small town. ( I was disgusted at the thought of using the word "democracy" to sell their ideas to us small town folk).
All this to say that I truly support Sherman and his telling us to keep figting and fighting hard. I am going to Alberta for the G-7 protests next June and I hope to see more of us there. We can abort that silence they try to impose on us but we need more voices. In Ottawa this November during the G-20 meetings, we fought against they IMF/WB but we weren`t enough.
I wish Sherman the best of luck and as an 18 year old myself, I most deeply believe that it is our duty, as the new generation, to take our responsability in hand ans take the stand the boomers gave up on long ago. We shall overcome.
by mey
hey j. roth you dont know shit, open your eyes.
by Mickey
I went to your web archive out of curiosity. I notice that you don't
have a link for "rebuttle opinions". Isn't it nice in this great nation
of ours that you have no problem with reaping the benifits of "free
speach" on a one sided basis? You do have that endowed right, but you
should also allow others to express their adverse opinions ,too on your
web site. If you don't like the many things that are displeasing you in
this world of ours, then I suggest that you go out activly and
physically to try and fix these problems in a non-violent way, instead
of encouraging a revolution. America is your last hope where you're
allowed to excercise your freedom of choice. There's no more Americas
like our America on the face of this earth. America is ever evolving and
getting better as time goes on. Don't tear down what history has built.
If you really care about the state of our Union, instead of just
complaining and whinning, then get involve and do things that are good
to head off all that displeases you. What has already happened, happen.
Thats history now. Go forward to the future espousing peace, charity,
and problem solving.
I think I understand your concerns of how many things are ineptly
handled in this world of ours, but I think your energies are
misdirected. You are trying to manipulate people's emotions and that is
not the way to solve wrong doings. You must conquer evil with good
Armed revolution brings only more bloodshed and hate to the world.
That's an old concept of doing things. If you really want to be a
Revolutionist, then revolt in a new way. Not the generic way. It doesn't
work anymore. Don't follow a trend, set new trends.
Yelling, screamming, whinning and tantrums only bring negetive response.
Problem solving with peaceful solutions is the new way that leads the
way to enduring world peace. Best wishes.
by withheld
Good to see someone bringing thought and reason to this otherwise inane discussion.
by Mickey Mouse
I went to your web archive out of curiosity. I notice that you don't
have a link for "rebuttle opinions". Isn't it nice in this great nation
of ours that you have no problem with reaping the benifits of "free
speach" on a one sided basis? You do have that endowed right, but you
should also allow others to express their adverse opinions ,too on your
web site. If you don't like the many things that are displeasing you in
this world of ours, then I suggest that you go out activly and
physically to try and fix these problems in a non-violent way, instead
of encouraging a revolution. America is your last hope where you're
allowed to excercise your freedom of choice. There's no more Americas
like our America on the face of this earth. America is ever evolving and
getting better as time goes on. Don't tear down what history has built.
If you really care about the state of our Union, instead of just
complaining and whinning, then get involve and do things that are good
to head off all that displeases you. What has already happened, happen.
Thats history now. Go forward to the future espousing peace, charity,
and problem solving.
I think I understand your concerns of how many things are ineptly
handled in this world of ours, but I think your energies are
misdirected. You are trying to manipulate people's emotions and that is
not the way to solve wrong doings. You must conquer evil with good
Armed revolution brings only more bloodshed and hate to the world.
That's an old concept of doing things. If you really want to be a
Revolutionist, then revolt in a new way. Not the generic way. It doesn't
work anymore. Don't follow a trend, set new trends.
Yelling, screamming, whinning and tantrums only bring negetive response.
Problem solving with peaceful solutions is the new way that leads the
way to enduring world peace. Best wishes.
by Jack Hanks (portage [at]
What does a left-wing site have to do with ultra-right Alqueda? The secret police are trying to assert their authority to guarantee Bush's re-election without real opposition. We must not cry peace like the worthless democrats. He's right. Resist loudly.
by pig
This kid defaced webpages and put a "hacking script" troop.cgi to attack Gov. Computers.

This guy is not legit and should be seeing bubba for some tossed salad.

So once he gets out, he can go to a safer country and protest..but then again, that country's government will just kill him on the spot.


"According to the FBI, Austin allegedly defaced at least five commercial Web sites since 1999 using the nickname "Ucaun." On three of the sites, Austin left behind a hacking program named troop.cgi that was designed to attempt to log in to a computer operated by the U.S. Army, the FBI affidavit stated.

In the interview, Austin acknowledged that he vandalized the Web sites and that he knew it was illegal to do so. But he defended the act by saying it was necessary to get his message out. "

"On three of the sites, Austin left behind a hacking program named troop.cgi that was designed to attempt to log in to a computer operated by the U.S. Army, the FBI affidavit stated. "
by Truth
Austin did not deface web sites--he is simply an 18 year old kid whose naivety took him places where he shouldn't have ventured. I've know him for 15 years and he is one of the most non-violent people I know. He is curious and engages in exploration--this is not a crime--there is no proof of intent here just over reaction to innocent posting.
by I was there
This is not a direct quote from Austin--I was there..his statement was taken out of context...he did not admit to hacking into any sites.
by Educate to Liberate
Good advice to a kid that needs some direction.
by psully
"This guy is the same type of scum as Timothy McVeigh. Someone who thinks you can change the world around yourself with violence. "

LOL!!! Didn't WE murder lots of Indians and Changed The WORLD? Oh, but that wuz Divine Right, I forgot.
If you believe Tim M. bombed OKC without help from the feds, you must be in the 8th grade.

by Chromodynamix
This Sherman sounds like a spook front.
I mean, anyone who claims to be able to hack, but can't use spellcheck, has to be suspect.
This site is probably a trap for the many McVie psychos out there.So, if you get a visit from the MIB, you can claim "entrapment". Thats if they afford you the luxury of due process of course ;^>
by dm
We are a constitutional republic based on the rule of law. The founding fathers feared democracy - as it is mob rule. Get a life.
by dm
Spider Jerusalem is preaching to the choir. Amen.
by CrackHead
Maybe people should remember what it is that we have free speech laws for. His site being taken down, regardless of content, is protected by basic laws of our country. The least they could have done was contact him and ask him to REMOVE any harmful or potentially dangerous material(But at his decision to do so) because it is his right to freedom of speech and expresion WITHOUT censorship. That, I think is the main attrocity in this whole situation. We fight terrorism to combat against people intruding on others beliefs and forced dictator like rulings of what people can see hear and express, yet we, in our own country, our government trys to stiffle any means of that true sense of expression. It is HIS opinions and views and other peoples post that makes up the majority of HIS site and that is where we get lost in what should be done with his site content. I do not hearedly agree with all of his political and activist views but I respect them and understand them.

Free thinking is what the internet is about. It was meant as a means of communication.(Speech!) If we are to uphold our laws and views of the CONSTITUTION then by all means, we are hipocrits for thinking that he(Sherman) has done anything wrong (Sherman) He is a victim of the system that is not working with him but against him and ITSELF. In turn, its allmost ironic that he wasnt thrown in jail and sentenced to sit there for years until he reaches a trial. Remember Kevin Mitnick, Mummia, Leanord Peltier. Sitting without trial, awaiting the change of a culture and laws so that they could find a way to convict.

Kevin Mitnick is now free, but not in the true sense of the word. He cant even hold a job due to his restrictions of not being aloud to use a Phone, Computer, or such type devices as simple as a McDonalds CashRegister. This is ultimately the same type of thing that will happen to him((Sherman)).
by dm
>Independent from corporate and state ownership, and >the influences inherent in such control. We have our own >biases, personal and collectively, but we're pretty >up-front with them.

What is wrong with corporations making money? They are the catalyst in a free market economy - they provide jobs and products and services. The few that are making loads of money aren't sitting on a pile of cash - they are reinvesting it into the economy to generate more money for themselves - but in so doing - generate more jobs, products and services - consummables for meatheads like you. Who do you think built the components for that PC you are typing on? Seems to me you anarcho-libs (whatever that is) are hypocrites in that you use the tools of the evil hegemonious corporations to spill your blather out to the world.
Seems to me that you (not Mark, per se, but the anarcho readers) are envious of those who have more. I'm surprised you aren't head over in love with the Democrats as all they want to do is spread the wealth from those who have it to those who don't in the name of 'fairness'. Well, fairness can kiss my ass. Leave me alone and I'll leave you alone - that includes the gov't and you extreme right wing thinkers.
If you had ever seen his website, you would know that the site was centered around community and discussion. The webmaster put a lot of effort into coding a custom comment-posting script, operationally similar to that which is used on this site. Visitors communicated ideas and exchanged opinions. He excluded no opinions, but rather welcomed them.
by Agharti
I`ve never seen the website mentioned, but it sounds like a load of bullshit to me. There are plenty of conspiracy sites around, what made this one so special? The thought of armed units raiding a teenagers house over something like this seems far-fetched. And he must be suffering from delusions of grandeur if he thinks "they" are scared of him. "They" are more powerful than anything we can imagine.
There is nothing we can do now, we have left it too late. The only way you will survive the next 10 years or so is if you have your own personal army and nuclear shelter.
by Black Hawk
by Thinking man
by Griff January 27 2002, Sun, 8:46pm

"Putting myself in "their" shoes for a moment, it's hard to picture "them" as frightened. And, setting aside 1st Amendment issues for a second's only speculation, but, maybe "they" are just concerned that somebody imbalanced would use that info to blow something (or some people) up? They could be frightened that they'll get blamed for not taking some sort of action before hand, too. "

Gee - considering that recipes for gunpowder, fertilizer bombs, pipe bombs, and many, many other homemade weapons are readily available on the 'net by searching "Anarchist's Cookbook", I find it your argument at best a bit thin.


And if he had published, say, a web-page about his chemistry and physics projects for his local science fair in high school or the like, no one would have blinked... There is this thing called "context." If someone publishes about the evils of the state and links a web-site about how to make explosives, it sets an *entirely* different tableau than the other. Secondly, like it or not, things are going to be tight for a while, regardless if one is a right wing libertarian or a socialist/anti-capitalist. Don't have to like it, just gotta deal with it. Lastly, you silly liberal arts/political scientists gotta learn that you aren't gonna win the hearts and minds of the public with a web page and a manifesto. The system, even if you hate it, is a beautiful thing that can many a handle that can be turned against itself. "Due process is not merely a right, but a hell of a lot of fun, if you are sufficiently cynical and willing to put some effort into the process.
by anonymous
I don't believe how many FBI apologists are on this thread. Wake the heck up - the FBI did something wrong. They were out there to protect their "turf" and decided to aim for an easy target.

To argue that "he shoulda seen it coming" is to justify arbitrary use of force, without the direction of law. The feds had flimsy evidence in their chat room transcripts with snitches, but used it to get the warrant for the raid.

Then, after the raid, when he was busted on the NYC misdemeanor (couldn't get him on a felony - he didn't commit one there), they got him on USA PATRIOT, which is probably unconstitutional to start with (and probably wouldn't get approval for the warrant -- think about *that*).

Now, he's in solitary. The situation is giving the anti-globalization folks a big scare. The case could screw up the rest of Sherman's life.

Tell me this isn't starting to look like a case of the FBI "working the system" to protect their turf against political dissenters.

by Martin
Oka folks, all of the information on the weapons etc has been freel availible on the net for years - has noone heard of the Anarchists Cookbook or the Terrorist's Handbook or the Jolly Roger Cookbook - these items of literature describe how to make weapons much more destructive than in the weapons guide on this site - Plastic Explosives, Thermite, Flash Bombs, Land mines, TNT, Dynamite, RDX (high-order explosive) and lots of other very very nasty stuff (guns, RPG's etc etc etc). In fact, if you really search, and have some really good resources you can discover how to make a nuclear weapon on the net, where to dig up the radioactive ore, how to process it - I figured it would take around £25,000 for someone with enough determination (and stupidity) to create a nuclear weapon. Of course - theft of the radioactive elements makes this cheaper. Oh, and did I mention that this is not a good idea because of the radiation posoining problems which I haven't taken into account - but ou certainl can find out how to do it. I might not try it - but imagine if a REAL terrorist got that information - one who doesn't care whether he lives or dies? One who is going to suicide bomb?

Scary huh? This site's information on weapons and stuff is fairly basic compared to some of the stuff out there. I haven't even started on the martial arts training availible through the net (how to kill people with a single blow etc).

Why don't the FBI go after those people?
by User 9094384
Democrocy and 'fighting for your rights' is fine.

Violent demonstration, distruction of public and private property and causing yourself and others injury is stupid. The participants are not 'fighting for a cause' ,they are normally young males who engange in violent demonstrations for a 'rush'.

If you really believe in a cause, then <i>get clever</i> and fight for the cause in a more intelligent way. The more violent your demonstrations are, the more opposition you will get from the authorities and the public.

<b>User 9094384</b>
by Meklo
This guy has a point. Besides the belligerent words he uses, he does have point. I see hate, a lot of it. You think to solve you’re problems you can just use hate? Well back in the 'real' world hate, its what fuel killing, killing disintegrates our society. Sherman what makes you different from Columbine and Mr. Timothy? From an average spectator as my self, I see a bunch of troubled kids who are on a role that is going to end up in a bad way. I support you’re causes, they are interesting and innovative; I like free thinkers, but the way you are doing it, well no. Hate is wrong. Hate is bad. Hate is what caused Columbine disaster. Hate is what cause the WTC disaster. HATE IS WHAT CAUSED THE HOLOCAUST. You ‘anarchist’ should rethink you position, I understand you’re movement and I understand that you are fighting for freedom. But you are doing it the wrong way. HATE DISENIGRATES SOCIETY. And you well are bringing down the society, I like you’re cause, but just rethink.

Sherman since you are apparently the leader of this fiasco, lent me ask you one question. Do you want you kids, youre sister, as well as youre self to grow up in a world of hate? Every one does stuff wrong, and all I ask of you is to read up on the othe side before this turns hostile. P.S. I am not trying to start a civial war, but you don’t understand the consequences of hate, Hate is one sided, not double, just see double that’s all. I don’t bang on youre movement and I don’t bang on you, well reply to me at kplken123 [at]
by European Snobhead (timmytim [at]
OK, kids.
I am heavily in democracy. I am heavily in personal liberty. And I am - fuck me - justifying violence against tyrannical governemts. Dictatorships I am from Germany, you know. But!
You are so naive... do you really think anybody understands your cause? Face it, the USA are a free country! You don´t even have to report your whereabouts to the state (here in Germany we have a Meldepflicht, which means, when we change our address, we have to report it to the commune we are living in)! You may carry weapons (fuck it! This is ridiculous... we are not allowed to have heavy machine guns in our homes. So - surprise - we don´t have people who get killed by this shit. You may think it´s weird, but we think we can control our governemt by voting for or against it. Fuck me! We are so civilized compared to you wackos! Just kidding... yeah).
The most idiot nazicrap can be distributed freely inside the US (here, this is impossible. We have laws against menschenverachtende Medien, which isn´t so bad, I think, look at our crime rate).

But don´t get me wrong, I am not an advocate of the state or governments, I just realize there will be a state ever. A state which also protects the weak, supports the sick and so on (at least here). Anarchy is for small communes only. There it may work - but forget about overthrowing the whole state.
I don´t dig on megalomanic anarchist ideas, I want DEMOCRACY. I want a society which is free and solidaric to it´s maximum. I want to live somewhere where I am protected by professionals, because I am not willing to arm me to my teeth. And I want to have the right to sue these pros when I think they are treatening me unfair. I think a state is not that bad. I want laws that protect the weak. I am not too optimistic in mankind that they could arrange this voluntarily. They are just too egoistic. But you are young (as I am, WISEASS), so you´ll learn. As I did. Shame on me.

But where you are so goddam right, is simply that the people should control a state, not the state the people.
I think people have the right to protest. And I hate WTO, NATO, FTAA, NAFTA, G8 and this shit. They weaken direct democratic control in the countries you live in. they weaken the laws that were made by the people for the people. So I think it´s perfectly alright to resist governmental attempts to force protests down.
But I don´t believe in violence. Violence is ok when you defend somebody. When somebody get´s hurt really bad. Then use violence to stop the attacker, even if it´s a cop. Or a soldier. But you won´t succeed in trying to establish a better world with violence. It´s illfounded, and it´s unstable. The kickback will sweep you away. People must understand why it´s better to change the state. If they don´t understand, they´ll hate you. In my country, we had the RAF (Rote Armee Fraktion), which killed industrials, attorneys, judges, politicians and so on. They claimed they did it for the working class. The irony was, the workers hated them. Because they hated idiot naive students who killed people (most of them were indeed "innocent", as bodyguards, drivers, homemaidens...) brutally. It´s that simple. So they sucked big time.
I want to change the world too, but I won´t be so naive to believe in a sudden uprising. Firestorm my ass. It wont work, look at Cambodia.

Ah swell, I am talking way too much... hope you understood what I wanted to say, I am looking forward for answers. Cause I love you guys... you choose definitly the right side.

by OmiKroN
I just have a few comments to make here. As far as this matter goes, I agree with some of political and governmental beliefs. I myself have witnessed many instances where the "rights" we have are being stripped or manipulated to benefit the government. It needs to stop. When I heard about the raid upon the house, I was appalled. If our right to "freedom of speech" includes the freedom to speak only about what the government will allow us to, then that is not much freedom. I would like for the government to step back and take a look at the constitution from a citizens point of view, not from the way they want to see it. If they actually interpreted it the way it was meant, maybe things would be a bit better.

As far as the police system, they need to re-evaluate their officers and start taking action instead of standing by and saying "Well, its ok." I myself have witnessed an incident where I encountered an off-duty officer. The incident involved myself and four other teens. The officer chased us through the streets to eventually pulled us over. (Note: I thought I was being chased by some maniac in a Jeep.) When we finally stopped, he immediately pulled his pistol on me and yelled at me. Turns out, I had cut him off while driving and he thought he would use his "off-duty police authority" to correct my driving habits. It is a simple example like this that makes me irate about the current judicial system. If action is not taken soon, there will be more deaths due to police brutality and violence. My thoughts alone may not make a difference but, my thoughts along with the others who have heard of or experienced similar situations may do just that.

by jenga
I consider myself to be an anarchist. I am also a pacifist. I think we should strive, through nonviolent cooperation to achieve a society in which there is no concentrated power-where there is power there lies corruption. So in that sense, Sherman's ideas spook me a little. But if a guy with a gun is coming at you, what are you going to do? Hug him? I get where he's coming from (but I still think there are better ways to get to a better society).
I guess what I'm saying is that this isn't democracy any more, it's like consumer-ocracy. If you can afford it, you get the whole damn country. All the power is in the hands of the rich elite and they must be stopped. At ANY cost. ANY COST!!!
by bim sala bim
The real reason Sherman got busted is because he is a hacker who likes to deface other websites by putting up what are essentially advertisements for his own website

I think it should also be noted that Sherman's talk of the poor working man etc. is a bit hypocritical. This is a kid who doen't live in poverty--he lives in a nice house that his mother owns. In addition, this self-proclaimed anti-capitalist is in reality a practicing capitalist. He develops website software (vchat, talk now, community link pro) through his company 2cp Inc and sells it on his other site for $400 a pop. Read his salesman like spiel on his software site and tell me that he isn't a capitalist. Doubtful that many of his readers on raisethefist are aware that their teen hero does doubletime as the very sort of capitalist ass he rails against on rtf. (FYI for those of you who read the FBI warrant/arrest warrant, you are already aware that this clown runs 2cp/armadastyle)

Sherman Austin is just a spoiled brat middle class kid who is play acting at being a revolutionary for as long as his mommy will support him (kind of reminds you of the hippies who were exactly the same--look for this hypocrite to take the same path and be driving a volvo and living the upper middle class life in 20 years just like all the former hippies are now).

by rtf
I love you lying shits. You use anything you can to create as much drama in your life. Go ahead and hack your own web site and look for someone to blame it on. How pathetic. you're probibly that fool who kept hacking into my server a while ago, and saw that i was an anarchist, so you get jelious knownig an anarchist has some programming skills, so you needed to go and make up lies. Oh and go ahead and tell people i'm an anarchist, I don't care. I do free-lance independent work. I don't "own" any company. I don't make much either. Nothin more than minimum wage if i'm lucky. Not to mention the majority of that goes to bills and stupid fines. I can't even affoard web space. I get it donated to me. So take your neo capitalist lying punk ass someplace else to spew your distorted rhetoric.

Nonetheless, I find this funny, because you WISH i was a capitalist. you're so desperate to sit there and spew out lies that you can't even argue a simple point. you're no fucking "client" of mine. if anything, you were someone who had me for a contract job then decided to screw me over like the rich shit you are. How do I know? Because you're too chicken to put up your real name or show your real email address. You also email me with no return address and no name. How pathetic.
by rtf
and sorry I don't drive a volvo nor do I live with my parent(s). you rich cracka.
by Jim Pawlewski
To me, Mr. Sherman Austin smells like a capitalist. If someone truly hates capitalism they wouldn't be helping it by producing business software (i.e. his Web Talk customer service program that sells for $400).

The inevitable reply by Sherman of 'I've got to make a living is bullshit. I've been an anarchist/squatter since before Sherman was born, and never once have I sunk so low as to engage in any work that was for the benefit of the capitalist ruling class. There is also no way I would ever accept any rich person/business as a 'client'. From Sherman's remarks here and on his web site, it is clear that he has no qualms about accepting contract work from 'rich crackas'. If you're fighting against their system, how can you possibly justify producing software or doing independent contract work that helps them in their businesses?--So fucking what if you get money from them, the harm you do by aiding them far outweighs the money you take from them.

...and of course the question arises as to why a professed non-capitalist is charging for software that is no better than any of the freely available open source software on SourceForge...And nowhere on Mr. Austin's or web sites do I see any mention that the programs are freely available for anarchist/community groups which I believe means that Sherman the self-proclaimed non-capitalist would want to make a buck off of any homeless/anarchist/food kitchen organization that wished to use his software because they thought it would help them in their efforts (which is typical of a capitalist)...NICE.
by Sicily
2 Questions for RTF:

1. Does rtf stand for Racist Turd Fucker? Because your use of the word 'cracka' (or cracker) indicates that you are a bit of a racist when it comes to whites.

2. How the hell can you make the minimum wage and be so poor if you had 'thousands of dollars of computer equipment seized by the FBI' as you state in the interview at the top of the page? News Flash--I've yet to meet a poor person who has thousands of dollars worth of anything to be seized. If you're poor you can't afford to have thousands of dollars worth of anything. If you're poor struggling to come up with the bus fare to get to work on the day before payday (especially if like millions you have a family to feed), let alone be able to buy thousands of dollars worth of anything that isn't spelled FOOD or SHELTER. So fuck off with the poor act.

p.s. In the interview at the top of the page you state you live with your mother, now 6 months later you've moved out of her house. WhooppedyDoo you've been on your own for 6 months and had to support yourself . 6 months doesn't even qualify as having to struggle.
by cp
it's not that I can't see the humor in what you're saying, but that is totally ageist. Why should someone be responsible for other people sharing vague demographic characteristics.
Plus, just *look* at the exit polls today that break things down by age. I saw a Gallup poll done recently (and yes, telephone polls are inaccurate because people block telemarketers, but the results were beyond the range of statistical error) and people under 30 are more republican, more conservative, than people in higher age brackets. This was especially true in terms of economics, but it surprised me that for their questioning surveying support for invading Iraq, young people were much more in favor of this than people over age 60. However, once you think about this for a while and look at people around you, maybe it's not so surprising. The people who show up at a protest aren't representative of the general public if you look at age, gender, race, class characteristics, so having a few more young people show up doesn't mean that people under 30 are more progressive in broader society. Young people age 18-24 are quite a bit more anti-abortion too.
by Sicily
My aging hippie comments aren't so much ageist as they are a result of my coming of age so to speak in the late 70's/early 80's punk scene where one of the mottos was "the only good hippie is a dead hippy"... but besides that...

..your point on the trend for the young to lean on the side of conservatism is true, but it is a trend that has been firmly entrenched since the days when Ronnie Reagan ruled the land with a senile mind and a chimp (or should we say Nancy) on his back (for the young 'uns in the house, I'm talking about the '80's).
by ..........
Sure, we all know that rights aren't "given" to us. But nonetheless it's a legitimate criticism of government that it cannot even respect what rights of ours that it chooses to recognize. It can't even play by its own rules, which just highlights its failure. I think you are getting all "more anarchist than thou"
by cp
Well, it's not surprising how the younger generation is turning out, given the corporate diet they are fed. Middle class white kids are kept in the suburbs, preferably inside the house, and look at what the 9 year old typical MTV viewer is watching:
Have you seen the Christina Aguilerra group sex video? It's like, if you've experienced everything already by age 9, what's left... heroin addiction? Of course the 18 year olds are all cynical and jaded and ready to shaft the elderly and disabled and screw over the workers in third world countries who are sewing their shoes.
I say this tongue in cheek of course. When I entered jr hi people said the same thing about madonna and debbi gibson and def leppard, and I was pretty depresed about the cultural scene until I discovered olympia punk a couple years later. I don't think the other kids really enjoyed that stuff, but they weren't given other choices, particularly they weren't told that they could make their own culture. But when a typical american talks about the 'liberal media', they usually aren't picturing a liberal newscaster or person on cnn because there really aren't any liberals on cnn. They're picturing crass shows on Fox network like the one where several models compete to be the bride of the millionaire, or mtv etc. But look at Christina Aguilerra here - aren't she and Britney Spears so clearly republican??
Did you see Aaron Cometbus's issue before last that was about 'back to the land' people (usually white middle class countercultural people...) you can't rebel by being sexual or using drugs because that is what they have on the disney channel pretty much these days. He pointed out that punks are the most anti-technology people, and it's true - they often become neo-amish or luddites. we've all seen the crew smashing TVs at mayday, and my boyfriend lived with some prominent riot grrls in olympia and one made him get rid of his electric typewriter because it's technology was creeping her out, and she tossed some tacks in the road to make the cars go away.
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