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Indybay Feature
Women in Black March for Peace II
Women In Black marched silently through downtown San Francisco Friday during the height of shopping mayhem. Their message - Choose life.
At noon on Friday November 23rd, 'Bay Area Women in Black' gathered in front of the Bank of America building on Powell Street to express solidarity with the more than 170 'Women in Black' groups worldwide. From there they proceeded to march silently for an hour through the throngs of holiday shoppers descended upon Union Square. "Choose life, that your children may live" is the commandment they live by and they are deeply committed to making life livable for all people.
Women in Black are dedicated to active nonviolent protest against all forms of personal and state violence and terrorism, including militarism, anti-semitism, racism and religious oppression, wherever they occur. Through organizing silent vigils of protest, creating public rituals, using music, art, theater, and the spoken word, Bay Area Women in Black make visible their grief and protest the lives lost to religious, political and nationalistic struggles around the world. Public rituals provide a means for their many overlapping communities to gather and communicate the depth of their mutual concern for our shared troubled world.
Berkeley Women in Black stand every Friday from 12:00-1:00 pm at Bancroft and Telegraph.
San Francisco Women in Black holds a woman only vigil on the first Friday of every month from 5:00-6:00 pm at Montgomery and Market.
For resources and information: contact BayAreaWomenInBlack [at] earthlink.net
Women in Black are dedicated to active nonviolent protest against all forms of personal and state violence and terrorism, including militarism, anti-semitism, racism and religious oppression, wherever they occur. Through organizing silent vigils of protest, creating public rituals, using music, art, theater, and the spoken word, Bay Area Women in Black make visible their grief and protest the lives lost to religious, political and nationalistic struggles around the world. Public rituals provide a means for their many overlapping communities to gather and communicate the depth of their mutual concern for our shared troubled world.
Berkeley Women in Black stand every Friday from 12:00-1:00 pm at Bancroft and Telegraph.
San Francisco Women in Black holds a woman only vigil on the first Friday of every month from 5:00-6:00 pm at Montgomery and Market.
For resources and information: contact BayAreaWomenInBlack [at] earthlink.net
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Pardon Me,
but what exactly are these women for?
As the one sign says:
"Mothers are grieving in New York and Afghanistan"
-Well, yeah... ...duh!
But what is the point here?
What happens in the case where the military or violence are legitemately used to defend?
Assume there is a situation when we're not "the bad guy" (and yeah, I know a lot of people at this sight might have a problem even conceiving of such a situation)...
Hey: I'm no fan of just going out and killing people to make an intellectual or religious statement, but when the shit hits the fan, all the sign carrying in the world ain't going to stop bullets aimed at some mother's child...
But a premptive Marine strike can...
In particular, I know of their work defending Palestinian women... you know when we're not the "bad guy" but unfortunately we have been funding genocide in that region for years with nonstop money and arms.
So try again
Sorry for my Ignorance...
Yep: looking at the current state in Palestine and Israel as it's unfolded over the past year, I acquiess and beg your forgiveness...
Marching around with ambiguous signs has just brought so much peace and love to the region...
ambiguous signs, or, perhaps, a dulled mind that hasn't seen the issue?
I agree... marching arond with guns doesn't accomplish much...
However, the ability and willingness to use them has been the best insurance of personal freedom throughout history.
Your freedom is limited to your willingness to defend it!
Check this link and find out about one Afghan Women who refuses to wear a Burqa:
http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2001/11/28/135523
-Now THAT's a hell of a lot more effective than sign waving!
as for your inspiring burqa story, the favorite amongst "see-how-friendly-to-women-we-are" crowd, where is the women representation in bonn? where is rawa in bonn? what is women's role in a coalition government that doesnt even seem to be a democracy? give me a break.
Good question:
Where ARE the Afghan women in Bonn:
-I figure at least half the Afghans are women...
Yet why do they just sit there and expect to be treated as equals in a land ruled by violence for the past several centuries?
When will it happen? -Most probably when they're willing to pick up arms and defend themselves...
Until then, they'll only get whatever the men let them...
But you seem to understand the deep, hidden message under the slogan
"Mothers are grieving in New York and Afghanistan"
Can you please explain to us lesser gifted and ignorant what exactly this means beyond the obvious surface value?
Oh, you forgot that the patriarchal governments of the United States and Pakistan is where the warlords that rule Afghanistan get their guns; and apparently, these patriarchal military dictatorships won't sell guns to the women groups. So perhaps those of us in this country need to take up arms and show some solidarity against those who would hold back the women of Afghanistan, is that what yer saying?
"Mothers are grieving in New York and Afghanistan"
Isn't it obvious? Those who are murdered people in New York and the moral equivalent of those who are murdering people in Afghanistan. Mothers are grieving in both places. Its the same thing. Get it?
Hey: we agree!
Rather than walking around with innane signs that state what even you refer to as "obvious", these women would be a lot more productive if they all went out and joined the NRA (which supports a large program training women to use firearms). Then they could raise funds to send weapons to their sisters in Afghanistan!
Yep... the patriarchy will only exist as long as women are unwilling to defend themselves!
Most radicals are not opposed to the NRA. You are thinking of Democrats, liberals, whatever. You do know that the original contemporary gun control laws in this country were passed to stop the Black Panther movement, who used guns to defend themselves against racist Oakland police?
so, answering every possible argument with "join the NRA haha" does nothing but make you look silly. You *think* that all liberals favor gun control but in fact you misunderstand what a liberal is. I would diagnose this as Rush Limbaughism, a personality disorder caused by repeatedly listening to right-wing radio to find out what radicals or far-leftists think.
But the radicals go a little further than you do. Arm the population; disarm the state.
This is real quite cute:
"you are obviously a corporate media created conservative... ... would diagnose this as Rush Limbaughism, a personality disorder caused by repeatedly listening to right-wing radio to find out what radicals or far-leftists think."
If my friend Bob saw this he'd die laughing. You see, Bob and I drove cross country to spend a week in New Hampshire during the 1988 Democratic Primary
working for the Gary Hart campaign...
I still have a bunch of "Hart In 88" campaign pins!
Yet, by virtue of the fact that I hold an opinion that differs than your own, I must be written off as a brainwashed right wing fanatic with a personality...
The SAME tactic used by Eugene McCarthy... except he'd use the word "communist" with a history of "mental instability"...
And please don't talk down to me like a child about the Black Panther Movement...
Yeah, Eldridge Cleaver, Stockley Carmichael,
"Free Huey", walking into the state senate chambers in Sacremento with shotguns, and "Justice is found at the end of a gun"
What next? Am I a war mongerer?
Think I'm not familiar with Abbie Hoffman or Jerry Rubin?
You gotta respect a guy who doesn't bathe for 3 weeks and shows up dressed as a Viet cong with toy machine gun when seved a subpoena to testify before the Senate Unamerican activities commitee!
Really now... just because I recognize that, properly used, force can be VERY effective...
Hell: even Gandhi recognized that! C'mon: his first attempt at nonviolent protest failed miserably: he tried it in South Africa and got stomped!
Non violent protest only works when your opponent has the pretensions of Morals (Hmm... a tactic for the Palestinians that would totally discredit Israel's justification for oppresion here?)
...eh: wouldn't work: I don't agree with hyuk, so this must be some right wing plot...
Well, hyuk, I got news for you: if I was given a choice between Limbaughesque blowhards and die-hard idealists who rush to snap judgements like you, I'd have to go with the blow hards...
Why? because although I in no way agree with Limbaugh, I have heard him actually DISCUSS things with people who disagree with him...
...Not sink to simple demagougic slander against his opponent...
Idealist just line 'em against a wall and shoot 'em
As far as disarming the State? Well, it sure ain't perfect, but having traveled through REAL Police states (East Germany, Czechoslavakia), I can tell you now: there are people out there that make the republicans look like saints...
(and yeah: I know there's alot of you out there ready to jump at me for that one: but before you do, how many of YOU have been strip searched interrogated for 4 hours just because you took a picture of something out in the open on a normal spring day)
Yep: I'm GLAD we've got the Marines, even if I ain't too crazy 'bout the guys giving the orders...
As Far as guns...
You want to "arm the people":
Seriously?
So what's your collection look like?
remember to stay away from the 5.56mm BS stick to the 7.62 NATO or x57mm Russian.
Keep the faith, but don't let faith BLIND you!
...Hell, you even probably thought I was WHITE!
The silent mass of women in black. Thats a stunning image. I believe it would effect me deeply. But you know me. I'm just a dumb ass.
A silent mass. Every thing knows to fear most the persuer who walks quietly, in no hurry.
If I were capable, I would say, making peace should be like making the bad peoples go away.
Whose bad people is the problem you yell. Is it though. I can only speak of the bad people who are bad to my people. My tribe is maybe one hundred twenty million US citizens at most. Non of us know we are in a tribe, yet we are. Many of us to many tribes. In the caves of what is now north central europe, Whitey busted out and hasnt stoped heading toward outer space since.
Its a monkey thing. White is mutant. I am white. I am mutant. Mutant monkey. Like nearly everyone one of you now have in your blood. Whitey is wild now headed out to space. When theres no heightened alert watch whitey take another planet.
Because so many will not accept and understand that we are simpler monkeys than we know. AND WE SHOULD LIVE MORE SIMPLY. Like the Amish, but with with rock & roll. Everyone farming and conserving. Solar and Hydro electric projects which dwarf any government funded project in world history. Two hundred times the effort of the great wall of china and the egyptian pyramids. A complete reliance on minimum amounts of North American oil.
Then legalize all drugs and open treatment centers to replace the jails that house only drug/non violent perps. Tax marijuana to permanently erase the existence of cocaine. Useless stuff.
Use marijuana tax money to fund homelessness eradication. No beating heart of a innocent civilised animal should have to sleep without a safe warm room of their own. Neither should they go a day without nutriteous meals. Every man or woman of known inability to keep up the pace should know cleary to relax. We'll take up the slack. Life is brief people. Ten years and it could be done. Utopiaish.
If I am right in believing secular means without religion. Then secular would be even the mention of government. Governments dont have a heart. Governments are responsible to the whims of the majority vote. Hey look. VOTE
Message funded by white trash in favor of Danny W Thomas for stay at home president of the United States of America 2004 and again in 2008.
Eight years of Danny and utopillusion we'd all have.
Stoney farmer villages from coast to coast. Community control. States rights. Zero tolerance for mean violence of any kind against any beast . If you dont hurt one heart but your own then do ye what ye wish. Business suits are banned. Child and elderly care the most expensive branch of government.
100% volunteer US military. Oh.
peace all.
Rock and roll
Oh, "Without the "creating public rituals, using music, art, theater, and the spoken word".
The silent mass of women in black. Thats a stunning image. I believe it would effect me deeply. But you know me. I'm just a dumb ass."
So if you wanna be an Amish farmer with rock and roll, where exactly do you plug in the Amps?
i react positively and with thought and energy to the rock and roll we make.
ive seen pickers sing the ceiling off the sucker. In little groups and small communities we monkeys can rock and roll on our own. never disturbing all the other music fans. your drummer is your own.
we do not need to bickering and lashing of tongues. everyone needs to take a long hard look at what our priorities should be. we need solidarity.
we need more empathy. this may sound simplistic, but it is an extremely powerful way of relating to the world. we could all do with less criticism of eachother.
cnn needs criticism. npr needs a lot of criticism. rupert murdock needs to be criticised. dan rather needs that reality of the criticism of an informed public. the men and women in our government need criticism to reign their power-hungry oligarchy in and make them accountable to the people. there are others.
we should not be picking eachother apart, however. this is exactly what they are counting on.
to women in black: i admire greatly your strength of spirit and resolve. you are doing the unpopular--many will try to dissuade you, obstruct you, and distract you--ignore them.
to the critics: what is your contribution? what do you bring to the table except your egos?
But a premptive Marine strike can... "
This statement lets me know something about people like you. That you have shit for brains. Invading another country as defense is not DEFENSE, yet an offense you stupid shit redneck. Al-qaida is still around, and so is the Taliban, don;t let CNN fool you, all we did is we made thousands of more of them who will dedicate their whole live to getting us back. The truth behind our efforst in Afghanistan is OIL, don't give me any bull crap reason of this moral underline behind it because ther isn't any. UNOCALS plans were out from the begining to get control of the oil in Afghanistan by any means neccessary. UNOCAL is Bush's other Enron buddy. As far as your ruthless attitude of war goes, i'd like to let you know as an AFGHAN, when the tables are turned your fucked, because I will be personally taking your cocky advice to heart and I will come looking for you, and your cocky friends, and Rush Limbaugh first, and give you incest bearing rednecks some of your own medicine. Trust me the tables will turn someday, and you will regret ever fucking with that part of the world.
http://www.dawn.com/2002/02/26/nat9.htm
Big words in support of afganistan but I notice you didn't hop the first plane back 'home', huh? Probably came here as a political refugee and as politics change you figure the life in capitalist, christian west is better.
You talk a good show about how great the old country is but its all talk to you.
Course my guess is that you are are as afgan as I am.
By the way. Your racism is a bit tiring. So are conservatives are rednecks and vica versa, huh? And they all sleep with their sisters? What fucking world do you live in? Have you EVER been outside a big european or Northeast/CA USA city in your life? If I wrote that all arabs are terriorsits you'd be dancing up and down crying but you can give your superior little shit racist talk about other people with no trouble.
You (not Afgans, not moslems, not even all liars) are a fucking loser.
http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/resources/howtodie.html
As for Matt, i really like the way you rationally dealt with all the criticisms thrown at you...
i agree with oyu in the sense that a good tactic for the palestinians would be to silently protesting...especially against the israelis...however, can you imagine what the world would be like if everyone who wanted to defend themselves were to pick up guns?!?! you sound like you've experienced your share of gun points...I'm pretty sure you didn't enjoy them!!
I believe there's an easy way out of everything....there must be an easier way to protest...