Picture of U.S. Propaganda w/Translation

This serves two purposes. First, Americans who cannot read these languages will see the picture and be more convinced that our intentions in bombing and murder is humantarian. Second, Afghanis will see this and will be scared and demoralized even more, as we are basically telling them, "here we come". It is a beautiful piece of bidirectional propaganda. Americans are so stupid.

Signed,
Donald Rumsfeld

Well, one this is for sure, those people won't be any worse off when we get done kicking their totalitarian government's ass. They don't know what is going on, so of course they are going to hate the US. They've been told to hate the US, they can't read, etc. How are we supposed to take their opinion seriously? They can't see the big picture. The US will fuck up the Taliban and hopefully get a decent government going there. Then they will finally see why we are bombing their country.

Now I understand.

These bombs are to help me. America murders to save me. I feel so much better now.

Thank you America!

We are also murdering to save ourselves from getting murdered.

I doubt you're an Afghan citizen, but assuming you are, you must love your country and would agree that America is a worse place to live? We do nothing right here of course. Our economy sucks, our policies suck, our lifestyles suck. We are obviously wrong and we should live like the Middle Eastern countries who enjoy so much peace and prosperity.


The US spends 15 Billion a year on foreign aid. That's more than half of the world's nations' GNPs all added up. The great fucking satan.

In reality, the world can thank America for damn near everything. We started democracy (for the most part), after which many European countries followed suit. This brought on advances in technology that allow you to live longer and have a better lifestyle. We've got better medicine now, we've got damn near the most freedom in the world here. To hate America is to hate what is good in this world. America has done a lot of wrong, but by and large America has raised the level of the world.

Jon,

"Foreign aid" is an intentionally misleading term. $4B of that alone has gone to Israel, and that doesn't get used to buy food and medicine. It goes to buy machine guns, Blackhawk helicopters, missles, and tanks.

Another big chunk ($43M) was given *to the Taliban* this year. What did it buy? An official religious decree (fatwa) from the clerics that farming of opium was against the will of Allah. You can imagine what the money was really spent on.

No one's claiming life is better in Afghanistan, and your pretense to the contrary is a tiresome diversion from the real point: that American officials are guilty of continual terrorism and war crimes against other nations, and of continual civil rights violations here at home. It doesn't MATTER if politicians are even worse everywhere else - do you propose that 2 wrongs make a right? Our "leaders" are still criminals, as are the Amerikan citizens who support them.

so you are saying that the US is intentionally evil? I don't agree with you at all. Whether bad side effects have occured or not, our intentions are generally good. Sure, we look out for America first, but if we hadn't in the past, we would be nothing now. If we aren't the most powerful, who will be? China? The ex-Soviet Union? Nazi Germany? Iraq? It's easy to blame whoever is the biggest, but the true problems come from the countries themselves. Surely it't not the U.S.'s fault that Egypt has no property rights, never allowing their economy to be worth a shit, for example. The problem is these countries' awful governments don't want to accept the truth that a democratic, capitalist nation will be the best for the most people. Maybe we've "propped up" dictators, but it's always been because either
a) we don't want to and can't reconstruct every government in the world and save every poor person.

or

b) it was better than whatever alternative there was at the time (a lot of this shit happened in the Cold War.. the idea that we "built the Taliban" is B.S. when you look at the alternative--USSR taking over Afghanistan).

that's enough..

No one forced the terrorists to bomb, rape, pillage, murder, or blaspheme. No one forced them to carry out the actions of Sep. 11. But surely in a civilized world, if we are to keep it that way, their must be consequences to every action, some good, some bad.
The Taliban was asked to turn over those believed responsible for the attacks, they refused. We asked again, still they refused. We warned of the consequences and gave more time for compliance, they still refused. The Taliban was well aware of the fury that can be the United States' vengence. After WWII and Heroshima and Nagasiki, the whole world knows. They were warned, they were given time, they were warned again, and now thy must face the inevitable consequences of their actions.
Should we lie down and not react to an attack on our own soil. Would any other country. We have. What was done in wake of the first world trade center bombing? Nothing. What was done in the wake of the Marine barracks bombing? Nothing. That is the problem. These maniacs think that they can terrorize, and we will do nothing in retaliation but comply. I say that in doing nothing in retaliation, doing nothing to bring justice to the fallen and their survivors is admiting defeat to these phsychopaths.
As far as those that believe that we are not humanitarians, I ask: Would the Nazis have airlifted relief to the citizens of London? Would the Russians have airlifted relief to the Nazis? No, the wouldn't, and didn't. The U.S. is the only country that would, is, has (look in history, you'll find that we've done this before), and will provide relief to the citizens of a country that we are at war with; beginning with the first day of the war.
Al Quita Asked for it, the Taliban asked for it, and others in the world are asking for it. Now that they are getting what they asked for and deserve, they call us tyrants. All I have to say to those is a piece of history. A top general in the Japanese military was onec quoted as saying something very fitting. During the planning of Pearl Harbor, he asked his government to considder the consequences of thei actions before they "woke that sleeping giant". Well, Bin Laden, we are awake now, and here we come.

Americans like that last commenter can't even *spell* Hiroshima or Nagasaki, and yet they advocate mass murder there.

Anyone notice a trend? Yep, that's right! Americans are stupid. (and violent)

This famous speech was given by the Athenian leader Pericles after the first battles of the Peloponnesian war. Funerals after such battles were public rituals and Pericles used the occasion to make a classic statement of the value of democracy.
In the same winter the Athenians gave a funeral at the public cost to those who had first fallen in this war. It was a custom of their ancestors, and the manner of it is as follows. Three days before the ceremony, the bones of the dead are laid out in a tent which has been erected; and their friends bring to their relatives such offerings as they please. In the funeral procession cypress coffins are borne in cars, one for each tribe; the bones of the deceased being placed in the coffin of their tribe. Among these is carried one empty bier decked for the missing, that is, for those whose bodies could not be recovered. Any citizen or stranger who pleases, joins in the procession: and the female relatives are there to wail at the burial. The dead are laid in the public sepulchre in the Beautiful suburb of the city, in which those who fall in war are always buried; with the exception of those slain at Marathon, who for their singular and extraordinary valour were interred on the spot where they fell. After the bodies have been laid in the earth, a man chosen by the state, of approved wisdom and eminent reputation, pronounces over them an appropriate panegyric; after which all retire. Such is the manner of the burying; and throughout the whole of the war, whenever the occasion arose, the established custom was observed. Meanwhile these were the first that had fallen, and Pericles, son of Xanthippus, was chosen to pronounce their eulogium. When the proper time arrived, he advanced from the sepulchre to an elevated platform in order to be heard by as many of the crowd as possible, and spoke as follows:
"Most of my predecessors in this place have commended him who made this speech part of the law, telling us that it is well that it should be delivered at the burial of those who fall in battle. For myself, I should have thought that the worth which had displayed itself in deeds would be sufficiently rewarded by honours also shown by deeds; such as you now see in this funeral prepared at the people's cost. And I could have wished that the reputations of many brave men were not to be imperilled in the mouth of a single individual, to stand or fall according as he spoke well or ill. For it is hard to speak properly upon a subject where it is even difficult to convince your hearers that you are speaking the truth. On the one hand, the friend who is familiar with every fact of the story may think that some point has not been set forth with that fullness which he wishes and knows it to deserve; on the other, he who is a stranger to the matter may be led by envy to suspect exaggeration if he hears anything above his own nature. For men can endure to hear others praised only so long as they can severally persuade themselves of their own ability to equal the actions recounted: when this point is passed, envy comes in and with it incredulity. However, since our ancestors have stamped this custom with their approval, it becomes my duty to obey the law and to try to satisfy your several wishes and opinions as best I may.
"I shall begin with our ancestors: it is both just and proper that they should have the honour of the first mention on an occasion like the present. They dwelt in the country without break in the succession from generation to generation, and handed it down free to the present time by their valour. And if our more remote ancestors deserve praise, much more do our own fathers, who added to their inheritance the empire which we now possess, and spared no pains to be able to leave their acquisitions to us of the present generation. Lastly, there are few parts of our dominions that have not been augmented by those of us here, who are still more or less in the vigour of life; while the mother country has been furnished by us with everything that can enable her to depend on her own resources whether for war or for peace. That part of our history which tells of the military achievements which gave us our several possessions, or of the ready valour with which either we or our fathers stemmed the tide of Hellenic or foreign aggression, is a theme too familiar to my hearers for me to dilate on, and I shall therefore pass it by. But what was the road by which we reached our position, what the form of government under which our greatness grew, what the national habits out of which it sprang; these are questions which I may try to solve before I proceed to my panegyric upon these men; since I think this to be a subject upon which on the present occasion a speaker may properly dwell, and to which the whole assemblage, whether citizens or foreigners, may listen with advantage.
"Our constitution does not copy the laws of neighbouring states; we are rather a pattern to others than imitators ourselves. Its administration favours the many instead of the few; this is why it is called a democracy. If we look to the laws, they afford equal justice to all in their private differences; if no social standing, advancement in public life falls to reputation for capacity, class considerations not being allowed to interfere with merit; nor again does poverty bar the way, if a man is able to serve the state, he is not hindered by the obscurity of his condition. The freedom which we enjoy in our government extends also to our ordinary life. There, far from exercising a jealous surveillance over each other, we do not feel called upon to be angry with our neighbour for doing what he likes, or even to indulge in those injurious looks which cannot fail to be offensive, although they inflict no positive penalty. But all this ease in our private relations does not make us lawless as citizens. Against this fear is our chief safeguard, teaching us to obey the magistrates and the laws, particularly such as regard the protection of the injured, whether they are actually on the statute book, or belong to that code which, although unwritten, yet cannot be broken without acknowledged disgrace.
"Further, we provide plenty of means for the mind to refresh itself from business. We celebrate games and sacrifices all the year round, and the elegance of our private establishments forms a daily source of pleasure and helps to banish the spleen; while the magnitude of our city draws the produce of the world into our harbour, so that to the Athenian the fruits of other countries are as familiar a luxury as those of his own.
"If we turn to our military policy, there also we differ from our antagonists. We throw open our city to the world, and never by alien acts exclude foreigners from any opportunity of learning or observing, although the eyes of an enemy may occasionally profit by our liberality; trusting less in system and policy than to the native spirit of our citizens; while in education, where our rivals from their very cradles by a painful discipline seek after manliness, at Athens we live exactly as we please, and yet are just as ready to encounter every legitimate danger. In proof of this it may be noticed that the Lacedaemonians do not invade our country alone, but bring with them all their confederates; while we Athenians advance unsupported into the territory of a neighbour, and fighting upon a foreign soil usually vanquish with ease men who are defending their homes. Our united force was never yet encountered by any enemy, because we have at once to attend to our marine and to dispatch our citizens by land upon a hundred different services; so that, wherever they engage with some such fraction of our strength, a success against a detachment is magnified into a victory over the nation, and a defeat into a reverse suffered at the hands of our entire people. And yet if with habits not of labour but of ease, and courage not of art but of nature, we are still willing to encounter danger, we have the double advantage of escaping the experience of hardships in anticipation and of facing them in the hour of need as fearlessly as those who are never free from them.
"Nor are these the only points in which our city is worthy of admiration. We cultivate refinement without extravagance and knowledge without effeminacy; wealth we employ more for use than for show, and place the real disgrace of poverty not in owning to the fact but in declining the struggle against it. Our public men have, besides politics, their private affairs to attend to, and our ordinary citizens, though occupied with the pursuits of industry, are still fair judges of public matters; for, unlike any other nation, regarding him who takes no part in these duties not as unambitious but as useless, we Athenians are able to judge at all events if we cannot originate, and, instead of looking on discussion as a stumbling-block in the way of action, we think it an indispensable preliminary to any wise action at all. Again, in our enterprises we present the singular spectacle of daring and deliberation, each carried to its highest point, and both united in the same persons; although usually decision is the fruit of ignorance, hesitation of reflection. But the palm of courage will surely be adjudged most justly to those, who best know the difference between hardship and pleasure and yet are never tempted to shrink from danger. In generosity we are equally singular, acquiring our friends by conferring, not by receiving, favours. Yet, of course, the doer of the favour is the firmer friend of the two, in order by continued kindness to keep the recipient in his debt; while the debtor feels less keenly from the very consciousness that the return he makes will be a payment, not a free gift. And it is only the Athenians, who, fearless of consequences, confer their benefits not from calculations of expediency, but in the confidence of liberality.
"In short, I say that as a city we are the school of Hellas, while I doubt if the world can produce a man who, where he has only himself to depend upon, is equal to so many emergencies, and graced by so happy a versatility, as the Athenian. And that this is no mere boast thrown out for the occasion, but plain matter of fact, the power of the state acquired by these habits proves. For Athens alone of her contemporaries is found when tested to be greater than her reputation, and alone gives no occasion to her assailants to blush at the antagonist by whom they have been worsted, or to her subjects to question her title by merit to rule. Rather, the admiration of the present and succeeding ages will be ours, since we have not left our power without witness, but have shown it by mighty proofs; and far from needing a Homer for our panegyrist, or other of his craft whose verses might charm for the moment only for the impression which they gave to melt at the touch of fact, we have forced every sea and land to be the highway of our daring, and everywhere, whether for evil or for good, have left imperishable monuments behind us. Such is the Athens for which these men, in the assertion of their resolve not to lose her, nobly fought and died; and well may every one of their survivors be ready to suffer in her cause.
"Indeed if I have dwelt at some length upon the character of our country, it has been to show that our stake in the struggle is not the same as theirs who have no such blessings to lose, and also that the panegyric of the men over whom I am now speaking might be by definite proofs established. That panegyric is now in a great measure complete; for the Athens that I have celebrated is only what the heroism of these and their like have made her, men whose fame, unlike that of most Hellenes, will be found to be only commensurate with their deserts. And if a test of worth be wanted, it is to be found in their closing scene, and this not only in cases in which it set the final seal upon their merit, but also in those in which it gave the first intimation of their having any. For there is justice in the claim that steadfastness in his country's battles should be as a cloak to cover a man's other imperfections; since the good action has blotted out the bad, and his merit as a citizen more than outweighed his demerits as an individual. But none of these allowed either wealth with its prospect of future enjoyment to unnerve his spirit, or poverty with its hope of a day of freedom and riches to tempt him to shrink from danger. No, holding that vengeance upon their enemies was more to be desired than any personal blessings, and reckoning this to be the most glorious of hazards, they joyfully determined to accept the risk, to make sure of their vengeance, and to let their wishes wait; and while committing to hope the uncertainty of final success, in the business before them they thought fit to act boldly and trust in themselves. Thus choosing to die resisting, rather than to live submitting, they fled only from dishonour, but met danger face to face, and after one brief moment, while at the summit of their fortune, escaped, not from their fear, but from their glory.
"So died these men as became Athenians. You, their survivors, must determine to have as unfaltering a resolution in the field, though you may pray that it may have a happier issue. And not contented with ideas derived only from words of the advantages which are bound up with the defence of your country, though these would furnish a valuable text to a speaker even before an audience so alive to them as the present, you must yourselves realize the power of Athens, and feed your eyes upon her from day to day, till love of her fills your hearts; and then, when all her greatness shall break upon you, you must reflect that it was by courage, sense of duty, and a keen feeling of honour in action that men were enabled to win all this, and that no personal failure in an enterprise could make them consent to deprive their country of their valour, but they laid it at her feet as the most glorious contribution that they could offer. For this offering of their lives made in common by them all they each of them individually received that renown which never grows old, and for a sepulchre, not so much that in which their bones have been deposited, but that noblest of shrines wherein their glory is laid up to be eternally remembered upon every occasion on which deed or story shall call for its commemoration. For heroes have the whole earth for their tomb; and in lands far from their own, where the column with its epitaph declares it, there is enshrined in every breast a record unwritten with no tablet to preserve it, except that of the heart. These take as your model and, judging happiness to be the fruit of freedom and freedom of valour, never decline the dangers of war. For it is not the miserable that would most justly be unsparing of their lives; these have nothing to hope for: it is rather they to whom continued life may bring reverses as yet unknown, and to whom a fall, if it came, would be most tremendous in its consequences. And surely, to a man of spirit, the degradation of cowardice must be immeasurably more grievous than the unfelt death which strikes him in the midst of his strength and patriotism!
"Comfort, therefore, not condolence, is what I have to offer to the parents of the dead who may be here. Numberless are the chances to which, as they know, the life of man is subject; but fortunate indeed are they who draw for their lot a death so glorious as that which has caused your mourning, and to whom life has been so exactly measured as to terminate in the happiness in which it has been passed. Still I know that this is a hard saying, especially when those are in question of whom you will constantly be reminded by seeing in the homes of others blessings of which once you also boasted: for grief is felt not so much for the want of what we have never known, as for the loss of that to which we have been long accustomed. Yet you who are still of an age to beget children must bear up in the hope of having others in their stead; not only will they help you to forget those whom you have lost, but will be to the state at once a reinforcement and a security; for never can a fair or just policy be expected of the citizen who does not, like his fellows, bring to the decision the interests and apprehensions of a father. While those of you who have passed your prime must congratulate yourselves with the thought that the best part of your life was fortunate, and that the brief span that remains will be cheered by the fame of the departed. For it is only the love of honour that never grows old; and honour it is, not gain, as some would have it, that rejoices the heart of age and helplessness.
"Turning to the sons or brothers of the dead, I see an arduous struggle before you. When a man is gone, all are wont to praise him, and should your merit be ever so transcendent, you will still find it difficult not merely to overtake, but even to approach their renown. The living have envy to contend with, while those who are no longer in our path are honoured with a goodwill into which rivalry does not enter. On the other hand, if I must say anything on the subject of female excellence to those of you who will now be in widowhood, it will be all comprised in this brief exhortation. Great will be your glory in not falling short of your natural character; and greatest will be hers who is least talked of among the men, whether for good or for bad.
"My task is now finished. I have performed it to the best of my ability, and in word, at least, the requirements of the law are now satisfied. If deeds be in question, those who are here interred have received part of their honours already, and for the rest, their children will be brought up till manhood at the public expense: the state thus offers a valuable prize, as the garland of victory in this race of valour, for the reward both of those who have fallen and their survivors. And where the rewards for merit are greatest, there are found the best citizens.
"And now that you have brought to a close your lamentations for your relatives, you may depart."

So where were you after September 11, Mr. Afghan citizen (and I doub that)...where were you? celebrating with other Afghan citizens the death of 6,000 americans. GO TO HELL !!

there is hilda's picture. good one, hilda.

Interesting that none took the time to read it. Otherwise a better dialogue would have emerged. Maybe that says something about the age/sophistication/attention span/ of our ilk?

was the head of a state whose economy was based on slave labor. Fuck Pericles, fuck Athens, fuck slavery and fuck you.

It is interesting that so much of this dialogue is fueled by emotion rather than ideas or ideals. We cannot sit by as the cycle of terrorist violence spirals out of control. Clearly, some action was necessary in Afghanistan. Clearly, our actions will result in the deaths from starvation of many more inocent Afghanis than the number that died in the trade center tragedy. Clearly, the rise of this terrorism against the U.S. is the result of many different inherently racist and unfair foreign policies.

Overall, we are in a very difficult situation, the burden of which will be born by the poorest people on the planet, who live in Afghanistan. It is time to wake up and live according to the ideals which we preach hypocritically to the rest of the world. We must support freedom and peace and prosperity for ALL rather than just for ourselves and our caucasian friends around the world.

P.S. Don't forget all that untapped oil in central asia- here comes the oil thirsty Americans once again.

I am a veteran with definite left of center views. I look at the crude propaganda leaflet from the pentagon, and I am troubled by it's crudeness . I am even more troubled by the statement made concerning murder of Afghan's. You people must be asleep, brainwashed, or just plain stupid. You are so hopped up on your ultra liberal self righteous fantasy, you can't see the forest for the trees. You live in this country where we always have enough to eat and we stay relatively secure most of the time. If we have enough to eat it's because we are protected by a strong military . In most parts of the world where people are starving it's because of the dictatorships your so busy supporting. Despite my displeasure with many aspects of the capitalist system. It's the system that produces the lions share of the worlds food. The people we are dealing with in the middle east and in Afghanistan only understand one thing and that is force . The day people like you in your whimpy dillusions take over that's the day we'll start living in slavery and going hungry.

Do know anything about the government they are trying to instate after the taliban? the Northern Alliance is resposible for just as many human reghts violations as the Taliban including ethnic cleansing, in case you forgot that is when the undesirables are raped and impregnated withthe seed of soldiers who murder babies and fathers who are full blooded -whatever it is they do not like. Besides this isn;t a real war and could very well continue until every human living in the region is dead , if our leaders can continue with these wonderful unarguable reasons for murdering innocent people.

So America is so great we should be so greatful thsat they killed off an entire nation of peaceful people (cutting themselves on Columbus' sword in ignorance of weaponry),to create a nation which prospers off the enslavement and murder of thousands of Africans. Has a surplus of food large enough to feed the entire world and doesn't ,has enough weapons to destroy the world three times and yet still spends money creating more while schools lose their funding and single mother's starve. Provides 15 million dollars in freign aid the majority of which is military, helping the citizens if the world kill each other and is one of very few developed nations to withold universal healthcare in the interest of pharmaceutical money. There has never been a war wherein the real reason we got involved is apparent until after the fact. Read historians like Zinn study less mainstream sources of information. WAKE THE FUCK UP

The united states are responsible for this whole thing. they are the ones who let the weapon weilding terrorists through their airport gates. they are the ones who knowingly allowed something to happen(intelligence knew something was going to happen, they didn't know exactly what). Even though they knew something was up they didn't step up security... why? because they knew that if afganistan made an attack that would give the u.s. an excuse to attack. they have wanted to get rid of the taliban forver, not because of their ways of governing the country, but because they want the oil from the surrounding countries but they have to get through afganistan to get it. anytime you think that "they are killing to save our butts" you are thinking wrong. the united states government doesn't give a rats ass about it's people. they only go where profit can be had. look back to the genocide at rawanda, they did nothing to help them because there was nothing to gain finacially. blah. that's all i have to say about that.

Americans are more than fair and accommocating toward differences - look at all the different cultures which are accepted in America. As for the previous individual's quaint finger-pointing at spelling errors, is this really the issue at hand? Americans are defending the freedom offered in America, and to all peoples. As for your label of Americans being violent, HA! We will patch up all the poor little dumbies who choose to remain loyal-to what exactly-I cannot see as being beneficial to them or anyone else. Of course it may be their religious understanding that they gain some points with their higher-power to live and die as martyrs. So then are we not doing them a favor? Your definition of violence is poor. Defense of freedom and inocent peoples is what America's current action is all about. If you are a martyr too, I doubt there will be very little memory of your defense-less choice should you be attacked by the Talaban (or anyone else.) I believe God has a fabulous sense of humor regarding people like you.

Carol,

If you want to find out about how much America cares about freedom and democracy you should investigate when America installed military dictators in Greece and Chile and then had the audacity to laud those two regimes who brutually murdered so many as a "triumph of democracy." Every dictator the US installs is a hailed as a "triumph of democracy."

The first rule of realpolitik is there are no rules. If you get away with something, do it, even if it means a thousand will die in East Timor or the West Bank. The ends justifies the means. All that matters is that US interests are tended to and no matter how brutal a policy you need to see to it, the ends is all that matters.

What is america defending? there was one attack made on them. one attack that they could have prevented but didn't because they had a hidden agenda to get oil out of afganistan. All i've seen since september 11th has been offense not defense. You or i are not in any immediate danger what so ever. we are not "under attack" as the media put it. afganistan is under attack and has been for years. we have been attacking their culture, their faith, their way of life for years. Blame the united states foriegn policy for that. we all know that sooner or later one country or another was going to become fed up with getting raped by the u.s. government and stand up for themselves. I consider it a counter attack. and now what is happening? you say that our freedom is being defended. it isn't. they don't care about our freedom. they just want to take away someone else's freedom for financial gain. that's how it's always been in the states. the u.s. has enough weapons to destroy the world 3 times over, their freedom is pretty damn secure if you ask me. Talk to me about how they are defending your freedom when you are sitting huddled in your basement hoping that those last few bombs dropped don't hit your house. your freedom is secure.

Interesting speech from Pericles. Obviously, we are meant to compare the US favorably with Athens, and draw the same conclusions about the US.

However, I have an alternate framework in which to view Pericles' speech.

Athens was an empire, based on slave labor and military conquest - the latter at least is quite openly admitted by Pericles. Its wealth was based at least in part on predatory relationships with foreign territories - and was wealthy enough to then give out "foreign aid" and call itself magnanimous. From the tone of the speech, it is clear that non-Athenians are considered less important than Athenians, and the whole thing is an absurdly pompous puff piece about how great the city is and its inhabitants are.

In fact, it reminds me quite a bit of the absurd feather-fluffing Americans quite often engage in. Other nations do not feel as much of a need to crow about how great they are. And the United States is also an empire, its foreign relations amoral if not downright immoral, founded upon slavery and military conquest (of the American Indians, Mexico, Cuba and the Philipines, etc.). Hard truths for the goose-stepping patriot, but truths nonetheless.

Realpolitik in action:

""It's the best damn Government since Pericles," the American two-star General declared. (The news report did not mention whether he was chewing on a big fat cigar.)

The government, about which the good General was so ebullient, was that of the Colonels' junta which came to power in a military coup in April 1967, followed immediately by the traditional martial law, censorship, arrests, beatings, torture, and killings, the victims totaling some 8,000 in the first month. This was accompanied by the equally traditional declaration that this was all being done to save the nation from a "communist takeover". Corrupting and subversive influences in Greek life were to be removed. Among these were miniskirts, long hair, and foreign newspapers; church attendance for the young would be compulsory."
----------------------------------------------------------
"During one of the perennial disputes between Greece and Turkey over Cyprus, which was now spilling over onto NATO, President Johnson summoned the Greek ambassador to tell him of Washington's "solution". The ambassador protested that it would be unacceptable to the Greek parliament and contrary to the Greek constitution. "Then listen to me, Mr. Ambassador," said the President of the United States, "fuck your Parliament and your Constitution. America is an elephant. Cyprus is a flea. If these two fleas continue itching the elephant, they may just get whacked by the elephant's trunk, whacked good.... We pay a lot of good American dollars to the Greeks, Mr. Ambassador. If your Prime Minister gives me talk about Democracy, Parliament and Constitutions, he, his Parliament and his Constitution may not last very long."

Yes septemeber 11th was a sad day but the big picture isn't look what has happened but
WHY DID THIS HAPPEN!
There is always two sides of a story. As for the picture, I only wish that things could be sorted out with peace, communication is a powerful tool. Americans first reaction was not this, so doesn't this make them terrorists themselves? Propaganda can be used in a selfish way.

It seems to me, the people who don't understand that this is propaganda at it's finest, are the ones who are too busy buying into the propaganda directed them as citizens of United States. To these people I ask: what is "Americanism" anyways? I know you'd die for it, so please explain it to me what you think it means.

Stocks fell after two days of heady gains as a new report on consumer confidence missed expectations, producing some uneasiness about the economy.

Still, major indexes bounced back from lows hit earlier in the day when the report was first released.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average fell 30.45 points to close at 10115.26 after being down more than 100 points earlier. The blue-chip indicator climbed 177.56 on Monday. Meanwhile, the Nasdaq Composite Index fell 3.02 to 1766.86 after surging 45.34 the previous session.

Other indexes were flat. The Standard & Poor's 500-stock index was down 0.05 point to 1109.38, the New York Stock Exchange Composite Index edged up 0.98 to 577.34 and the Russell 2000 index of small-capitalization stocks gained 3.10 to 471.29.

Treasury prices were weighed down by fairly heavy selling from mortgage accounts, and the market was taking a cautious stance ahead of Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan's testimony about monetary policy before the House Financial Services Committee on Wednesday. The dollar was stronger.

The Conference Board's consumer confidence index fell1 to 94.1 in February from a revised 97.8 in January. Consumer expectations for the state of economic activity over the next six months also dropped, falling to 93.6 from 97.6. Economists had expected the report to remain largely unchanged.

Consumers continue to play a lead role in any economic-rebound scenario, making the surprise downturn in sentiment a cause for concern among traders.

"The end of the inventory correction is going to likely be the big driver for growth that begins the economic recovery; however, most people realize that once the correction is over, the rate of demand growth is going to need to increase or we're going to have the double-dip recession," said Steve East, managing director of economic policy and research for Friedman, Billings, Ramsey Group.

"To see consumer-confidence data roll back over -- though one month's data does not a trend make -- does not bode well for the prospects that demand will pick up," Mr. East said.

• European Stocks Trade Higher2

• Asian Markets Close With Gains3

• Dow Industrials Close Above 100004





The market's weakness came in spite of some upbeat earnings news from the nation's retailers.

Among companies that posted fourth-quarter results Tuesday morning, Home Depot said net income surged 53%5, edging Wall Street's estimates. Its shares were little changed.

The housing market has remained robust even as the rest of the economy has faltered, helped by low mortgage rates.

On that note, home-building company Toll Brothers posted an 11% increase in its fiscal first-quarter profit. Its shares climbed 3.4%. The company also said it should top earnings expectations for the 2002 fiscal year.

Retailing giant Federated Department Stores posted earnings from continuing operations of $1.90 cents a share, four cents higher than analysts' estimates. Its shares rose 2.2%.

Meanwhile, Starbucks Coffee helped perk up the Nasdaq after it reaffirmed its 2002 guidance and revealed plans to expand into Mexico. Starbucks also said it expects full-year revenue to jump about 20%. Its shares were up slightly.

Waste Management also recorded earnings that topped analysts' forecasts. The waste-hauling company said its net rose more than fourfold. Its shares inched higher.

Overseas, gains in the technology sector, and an encouraging report on business sentiment in Germany helped lift major European stock markets. Frankfurt's Xetra DAX was 0.6% higher, while London's Financial Times Stock Exchange 100-share index was up 0.8%.

Earlier in the day, Hong Kong's Hang Seng Index closed with a gain of 0.5%, but Tokyo's Nikkei 225 Stock Average declined 0.9% as investors worried that the government's plan to combat Japanese deflation won't be as bold as initially anticipated.

In major U.S. market action:

Stocks were weak.6 On the Big Board, where 1.31 billion shares traded, 1,801 stocks rose and 1,317 fell. On the Nasdaq, 1.66 billion shares changed hands.

Bonds fell.7 The 10-year Treasury note fell more than 1/2, or $5.00 for each $1,000 invested. The yield, which moves inversely to price, rose to 4.922%. The 30-year bond was down nearly 3/4 point to yield 5.415%.

The dollar was stronger.8 It traded at 134.57 yen, up from 133.86 late Monday in New York, while the euro fell against the dollar to 86.36 cents from 86.92.

Write to Erin Schulte at erin.schulte [at] wsj.com9

URL for this article:
http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB1014723954424104520.djm,00.html


Hyperlinks in this Article:
(1) http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB1014735110782697560,00,00.html
(2) http://online.wsj.com/articles/europe_markets
(3) http://online.wsj.com/articles/asia_markets
(4) http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB1014636706647107240,00.html
(5) http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB1014728834236204960,00,00.html
(6) http://online.wsj.com//page/0,,2_0022,00.html?page=Market+Movers
(7) http://online.wsj.com//page/0,,2_0031,00.html?page=Credit+Markets
(8) http://online.wsj.com//page/0,,2_0032,00.html?page=Foreign+Exchange
(9) mailto:erin.schulte [at] wsj.com

Updated February 26, 2002 4:42 p.m. EST






Copyright 2002 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved

Printing, distribution, and use of this material is governed by your Subscription agreement and Copyright laws.

For information about subscribing go to http://www.wsj.com

So, what does all this mean? Does it mean that Jefferson's dream of an agrarian society is still the best dream for this country, or the world for that matter?

Do we need to finally start learning from histroy and stop subverting sustainible cultures. Respect and learn from societies that actually observe nature and then live in a maner that is both beneficial to their environment and to peace, happiness and harmony in their lives?

Obviously we can't go back. But we can move forward and use technology to benefit man kind instead of destroy it. Right?

Frankly my dear afgani citizen I and the rest of america don't really care about you you and your people allowed a goverment unfriendly and belligerent to us to come to power your country has harbored the enemies of the United States of America and I for one am in favor of executing every single suspected terrorist and anyone who harbors or succors terrorists

look at all the cultures that are accepted by who? the white?what the fuck are you on?cultures which were here before europeans are just about dissolved due to conforming of minorities such as native indians from the "right"religion.America, I love the concept,too bad its founders had an idea with equal vallue to cold fusion. as for the propaganda why is everyone upset? you were all fed the shit your whole lives! all these ass fucks who believe "our way" is the clasest to heaven have serious issues to contend with. Osama, was he responsible? he is now! due to media feeding you fact after fact until they instill guilt until proven innocent like a black man who raped a white blonde. media fed you propaganda all this time, the country you love was founded on rape,theft,slavery,assasinations of the greatest leaders,poisioning of the black community with crack by the cia. I wouldnt be surprised if the antichrist George Bush jr had ties to Mr Laden for the biggest scam the people of this great country have fallen suckers for.
common physics predict when shit hits fans it gors everywhere, we are just getting our share regardless of our direct affiliation with our "programmer"(USA) so all who think we are victims stop crying, its bad what happened but look at the facts, our government did dirt now we eat some to keep the balance!

A wise wu tang rapper once said behind every fortune there's a crime and thats a fact!

are you the divine?have you ever had the power to create and destroy at will?will you ever? so you cant tell a suspect from a innocent ? if you kill innocent will this not be the equivilant to what happened in new york? war is never justifiable because it is never needed and yeilds no gains exept for the company which wages and builds the war machines and the president who keeps sending men into the meet grinder like nam.and you try to stop it they will kill you with a magic bullet

are you the divine?have you ever had the power to create and destroy at will?will you ever? so you cant tell a suspect from a innocent ? if you kill innocent will this not be the equivilant to what happened in new york? war is never justifiable because it is never needed and yeilds no gains exept for the company which wages and builds the war machines and the president who keeps sending men into the meet grinder like nam.and you try to stop it they will kill you with a magic bullet

are you the divine?have you ever had the power to create and destroy at will?will you ever? so you cant tell a suspect from a innocent ? if you kill innocent will this not be the equivilant to what happened in new york? war is never justifiable because it is never needed and yeilds no gains exept for the company which wages and builds the war machines and the president who keeps sending men into the meet grinder like nam.and you try to stop it they will kill you with a magic bullet

The US is a bull in the chiuna shop.

The propaganda letter we are dropping is completely unrealistic for one reason:

The picture shows the American soldier and the Afghan man both the same height.

When anyone sees that, well....they'll rip it up.

What kind of future do I, and my fellow Americans have to look forward to? Simply put, a dismal one...The United States Government, founded "for the people, by the people", doesn't seem to be operating by itsoriginal guidlines...First off, Bush was elected by the Senate, not the people, and many of the Senate members that put "Bush 2" in power,were elected by his father. I'm sorry but I just had to get that monkey off my back...Secondly, The US and more specifically the CIA has played the puppetmaster around the globe by playing both sides, serving it's own interests. Well, surprise-surprise, its come back to bite us in the ass...and we still haven't learned our lesson. We keep feeding Israel more and more weapons of destruction, which it, of course, goes and uses, killing innocents as well as enemies. But, this isn't the biggest problem because what this has done is caused other surrounding nations in the Middle East to build up their military supplies (one might compare this to the Arms Race between the US and Russia in the Cold War). This is why we are having such problems now...But even before the US sarted "Golden Feather" or whatever you want to call this pseudo-Nazi pro-American trip the country has been on since 9/11..there were bombings, and terrorist acts, but we stood to the side and said, "It's not our problem...we've got nothing to do with it", and we sat on our hands until it finally took the destruction of part of the Pentagon, and the World Trade Towers to get our attention. Yes, and now we're the "wounded eagle" thats reared its ugly head and is intent on vengence. However, the action we're taking now will only further the depth of the hole we're in. The government has gone totally radically Right and it's disgusting. I ask again,What kind of future do I have? Will there even be a world left after the hungry US lion is done slaughtering the gazelles of third world countries? When will it stop, because I guarantee once they have Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Palistine, they won't stop there...next it will be Cuba, then China, until ultimately the diversity that makes the world so wonderful is totally diminshed. What does "president" Bush have in store for our lives? I honestly couldn't tell you, but, right now, it looks like a dismal future.

My fellow human.There were and most likely still are people in the U.S.S.R who thought just as you do.Arent you happy that your family is safe from there ignorance?Now be a good sport and help keep other's safe from yours.

You need to get a fucking grip. When you look at the kind of totalitarian government that was in place prior to and in the days after september 11, do you really think that the Afghani people had a choice? When you look at how the general populace of Afghanistan has responded to the new government that has been put into place, you have to admit that it shows how surpressed the people were before. They now enjoy a whole new way of life with all new kinds of civil liberties. This is turning from a search to find the responsible parties of september 11 to a witch hunt. It can even be compared slightly to whats happening with the Palestinians and Israelis. Anyone who is suspected of being a terrorist is according to the USA's actions so far, pretty much random. Not to the same degree of course but... Also, I think it is quite obvious that with the request that President Bush made about drilling for oil in Alaska being denied, he is looking for another source of oil. Where are some of the richest oil deposits in the world? The middle east. And Saddam Hussein (this is no longer directed at Jon) is not as immanent a threat as the government makes him out to be. Yes he is an evil man and yes he probably deserves to be blown to smitherines, but the US is not in the line of fire. Other countries that are allied with the USA are. President Bush never even addressed this fact. And this coalition that he has is growing in international popularity, but not in the way that it should. He is using the USA's influence to almost force other countries into supporting him. Using statements like "You are either with us, the the terrorists." Thats not the way it should be done. Me being from Canada and all probably takes some of the effect of what Ive written here out, but I still think you have to draw the line somewhere and the Bush Administration shows no sign of doing so.

Yes septemeber 11th was a sad day but the big picture isn't look what has happened but
WHY DID THIS HAPPEN!
There is always two sides of a story. As for the picture, I only wish that things could be sorted out with peace, communication is a powerful tool. Americans first reaction was not this, so doesn't this make them terrorists themselves? Propaganda can be used in a selfish way.
"
My first response was kinda basic"get fucked".
My second was a little more logical. I'm sure you can justify 3000 deaths by understanding the other side. I'm sure Japan had a fully justafied reason to kill 3000 people at Pearl Harbor, or to rape their way through manchuria. However the logical response is not communication. Step out of your bubble and look at what is required to maintain a society where our freedom to have different oppinions exists. You can justify 2200 deaths in NYC, I can justify death in afganistan, or anywhere else killing people is required, in response. You can work on changing "their" minds with communication. An act of war carried out against civilians ended the possibility of a peaceful response to those who intend to kill us.

I'm writing this text cause i wanted to thank you! Thank you all American people for setting us, from South America, free!

Freedom - yes - what does that word mean? Does any of you here can explain it to me, without doing US propaganda? Is that still possible to do? Can you even tell what freedom is? Or are you blinded by propaganda? I'm serious, it's a simple question. I want a basic definition, not in a political sense, just a plain and simple one. You people repeat this word over and over, you tell this word to us everyday - and i believe you don't even know what it means! Please, don't look up in the dictionary. Be honest.Try to figure out for yourselves. Tell me - what does your heart say?

And please tell me why you consider yourselves the freedom nation, cause i simply can't understand it. What makes you freer than any other nation? Maybe that's because you people were chosen by God - How many times have i heard the expression 'God Bless America'.?! And by the way, what does "America" mean? Does any of you know?

It's kind of strange to me, as a foreigner, I see so much talking about freedom overthere, and everything you seem to be doing around the world is spreading the anti-freedom. Maybe because i'm not from there, i simply couldn't possibly understand, is it? I don't wanna get ironical here, I'm being honest. I just want you to tell me the meaning of it, cause i just don't get it.

Does the freedom that you talk about so much really exists? Or is it just a fantasy? Is it real? Or is it something people repeated so much you ended up believing in it. As a South American, my sense of freedom is much inferior to yours, i guess. Freedom to me is the right to have food to eat. Just that. I'm serious.

Please don't come up with answers such as - "we're free because here the criminals fry on electric chair" (i've read many comments from different articles about people saying things like "he should burn in hell" - is that your sense of justice?!). I'm just asking you - please, don't write down the first stupid thing that comes on your minds, i want to start a discussion here, a serious one.

I know there will be people here who will not take that seriously, please, if there's still a soul overthere that is concerned about things other than itself and about playing jokes on the internet, swearing people they not even know just for the pleasure of being stupid. I can even imagine a reply to this comment saying - " yeap! I'm stupid. Not only me but also all Americans, why don't you South Americans go to hell?". That is always the first thing those people think of saying...

Anyway, returning to the real subject here...What is freedom, What does freedom mean? And i'm sorry if i ofended anyone here, i dindn't mean to. Really.

i do not get it ????
i donot understand