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a summary of the events at S26 solidarity action in berkeley! reclaim the streets!!
this is a summary of what i saw tonight participating in the reclaim the streets all-out party in berkeley tonight, in solidarity with the prague imf protests.
a large group of people assembled at the berkeley bart station around 6pm. there were a lot of people on bikes and a lot more ready to march. we marched through berkeley without much police activity at all... it was great! there were two soundsystems cranking hiphop and techno... people were dancing, laughing, and generally feeling liberated after a weekend of great protesting and in solidarity with those struggling in prague tonight.
everything about the march was perfectly peaceful. everyone made their way back to the bart station, where a street party was planned. a huge mass of people were dancing, singing, playing drums, and having a good time as a few police watched from the side. i saw some police laughing and talking with protesters... almost dancing even!
at some point, the idea to bust up some newspaper boxes came up... so a bunch of USA Today, Chronicle, etc newspaper boxes started to get smashed up. with all that extra newspaper floating around, we decided to start a little bonfire to help with the evening berkeley chill.
this was the cops\' excuse to start busting heads. a wall of officers shoved through the crowd, knocking people over and pushing against them with nightsticks. the fire department came in and sprayed the bonfire ... effectively spraying hot, burning embers all over a crowd of demonstrators and passers-by. this pissed nearly everyone off, since the supposed safety-conscious fire department seemed almost punitive in their attempt to spray the crowd with burning embers. many people in the crowd pointed this out to the cops and fire dept, but like they fucking cared.
then things got tense. we were having a nice peaceful (albeit illegal) party and the cops decided to push it into violence. so now there were cops planted with menacing looks (under riot helmets) and nightsticks in hand where we had been partying. a small group tried to start another fire, and the cops against responded with force, pushing and shoving people with nightsticks to assert their control.
as more police started to move in, the group decided that it would be better off on the move, so again we took to the streets, blocking traffic. what once was a peaceful protest had the potential to be a riot after the uncalled-for violence by police had reminded everyone what they were out there for.
the group moved through downtown berkeley, truly reclaiming the streets. phone booths everywhere were set on fire. trash cans were set on fire. the mcdonald\'s on shattuck & university was set on fire. citibank and other banks had their windows smashed out. fires of garbage and newspaper were started in the middle of the street. all the while, people were yelling, \"whose streets? our streets!\"
the cops were fucking clueless. they had no idea that their use of force would not send people fleeing home, but instead make us more resolved.
the group went all over berkeley\'s downtown, even as far south as near ashby on san pablo. the group started working its way back up to telegraph. not wanting the public eye on them or the protest, the cops decided to barricade telegraph, at which point, the group started to get closed in by police. of course, the cops started pushing people, shoving people and attacking them with nightsticks. a tense scene developed on a residential street, with protesters yelling about police brutality and the cops bustling around, shouting orders at people and, well, being generally brutal.
fearing an all-out arrest situation, and more violence, the protesters finally had to take the high road and began to disperse.
at this point, someone heard that the cops were running to the Gap on telegraph and bancroft, obviously fearful that the precious corporation-state institution might be vandalized. the cops proved that civil rights were to take a backseat to the corporate property rights that fuck everyone over everyday. so protesters started to move to the gap, mostly to make fun of cops who were there to protect it. one macho, moustached cop standing in front of the gap admitted that he felt like a dork defending the gap. i asked him if he and some of the other officers wanted to help us tear it apart, and he said the chances of that happening were \"zilch\".
i left around 11:15pm, at which time there were about 40 riot police blocking off the last block on telegraph where the gap is, about 10 riot police standing in front of the gap protecting it, and a bunch of auxilliary cops blocking off traffic. the protesters were still singing, dancing, and acting out skits of police brutality.
a group of UC-berkeley students who were coming out of their dorm building saw the police state conditions, and stayed around to watch.
at one point, a skateboarder outside the gap fell, and his skateboard went skidding into a wall of police. one cop grabbed the skateboard and \"confiscated\" it... which elicited huge boos and jeers from the protesters and the crowd of uc-berkeley students. some part of the crowd started chanting \"thief thief thief\" because the cop basically stole the guy\'s skateboard. eventually, the cop gave the skateboard back and there was a resounding cheer of victory from everywhere.
this was a fucking major action and for a few hours this evening, the streets were reclaimed and people were celebrating peacefully. this was one of the most inspiring protests of the NAB/Prague weekend... and hopefully there was plenty of picture-taking and video recording to document this event. SOLIDARITY!
a large group of people assembled at the berkeley bart station around 6pm. there were a lot of people on bikes and a lot more ready to march. we marched through berkeley without much police activity at all... it was great! there were two soundsystems cranking hiphop and techno... people were dancing, laughing, and generally feeling liberated after a weekend of great protesting and in solidarity with those struggling in prague tonight.
everything about the march was perfectly peaceful. everyone made their way back to the bart station, where a street party was planned. a huge mass of people were dancing, singing, playing drums, and having a good time as a few police watched from the side. i saw some police laughing and talking with protesters... almost dancing even!
at some point, the idea to bust up some newspaper boxes came up... so a bunch of USA Today, Chronicle, etc newspaper boxes started to get smashed up. with all that extra newspaper floating around, we decided to start a little bonfire to help with the evening berkeley chill.
this was the cops\' excuse to start busting heads. a wall of officers shoved through the crowd, knocking people over and pushing against them with nightsticks. the fire department came in and sprayed the bonfire ... effectively spraying hot, burning embers all over a crowd of demonstrators and passers-by. this pissed nearly everyone off, since the supposed safety-conscious fire department seemed almost punitive in their attempt to spray the crowd with burning embers. many people in the crowd pointed this out to the cops and fire dept, but like they fucking cared.
then things got tense. we were having a nice peaceful (albeit illegal) party and the cops decided to push it into violence. so now there were cops planted with menacing looks (under riot helmets) and nightsticks in hand where we had been partying. a small group tried to start another fire, and the cops against responded with force, pushing and shoving people with nightsticks to assert their control.
as more police started to move in, the group decided that it would be better off on the move, so again we took to the streets, blocking traffic. what once was a peaceful protest had the potential to be a riot after the uncalled-for violence by police had reminded everyone what they were out there for.
the group moved through downtown berkeley, truly reclaiming the streets. phone booths everywhere were set on fire. trash cans were set on fire. the mcdonald\'s on shattuck & university was set on fire. citibank and other banks had their windows smashed out. fires of garbage and newspaper were started in the middle of the street. all the while, people were yelling, \"whose streets? our streets!\"
the cops were fucking clueless. they had no idea that their use of force would not send people fleeing home, but instead make us more resolved.
the group went all over berkeley\'s downtown, even as far south as near ashby on san pablo. the group started working its way back up to telegraph. not wanting the public eye on them or the protest, the cops decided to barricade telegraph, at which point, the group started to get closed in by police. of course, the cops started pushing people, shoving people and attacking them with nightsticks. a tense scene developed on a residential street, with protesters yelling about police brutality and the cops bustling around, shouting orders at people and, well, being generally brutal.
fearing an all-out arrest situation, and more violence, the protesters finally had to take the high road and began to disperse.
at this point, someone heard that the cops were running to the Gap on telegraph and bancroft, obviously fearful that the precious corporation-state institution might be vandalized. the cops proved that civil rights were to take a backseat to the corporate property rights that fuck everyone over everyday. so protesters started to move to the gap, mostly to make fun of cops who were there to protect it. one macho, moustached cop standing in front of the gap admitted that he felt like a dork defending the gap. i asked him if he and some of the other officers wanted to help us tear it apart, and he said the chances of that happening were \"zilch\".
i left around 11:15pm, at which time there were about 40 riot police blocking off the last block on telegraph where the gap is, about 10 riot police standing in front of the gap protecting it, and a bunch of auxilliary cops blocking off traffic. the protesters were still singing, dancing, and acting out skits of police brutality.
a group of UC-berkeley students who were coming out of their dorm building saw the police state conditions, and stayed around to watch.
at one point, a skateboarder outside the gap fell, and his skateboard went skidding into a wall of police. one cop grabbed the skateboard and \"confiscated\" it... which elicited huge boos and jeers from the protesters and the crowd of uc-berkeley students. some part of the crowd started chanting \"thief thief thief\" because the cop basically stole the guy\'s skateboard. eventually, the cop gave the skateboard back and there was a resounding cheer of victory from everywhere.
this was a fucking major action and for a few hours this evening, the streets were reclaimed and people were celebrating peacefully. this was one of the most inspiring protests of the NAB/Prague weekend... and hopefully there was plenty of picture-taking and video recording to document this event. SOLIDARITY!
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I was one of the protestors who was struck by a police officer at Center & Shattuck last night. I am trying to find individuals who witnessed or who have photos or video of this act of brutality. The officer's name was Reece but I did not get a badge number. Anything you have would be greatly appreciated as I intend to file a complaint.
Also: A silver Toyota Sedan CA license plate number 3MSW631 is an unmarked police vehicle.
Reclaim the Streets was an amazing and powerful protest in solidarity with the World Bank / IMF protests in Prague and I hope we can see more of these street party actions in the future.
Also: A silver Toyota Sedan CA license plate number 3MSW631 is an unmarked police vehicle.
Reclaim the Streets was an amazing and powerful protest in solidarity with the World Bank / IMF protests in Prague and I hope we can see more of these street party actions in the future.
"at some point, the idea to bust up some newspaper boxes came up... so a bunch of
USA Today, Chronicle, etc newspaper boxes started to get smashed up. with all that
extra newspaper floating around, we decided to start a little bonfire to help with the
evening berkeley chill."
Nonviolent ? Guess that depends on your definition? Try Luddite-
c.
USA Today, Chronicle, etc newspaper boxes started to get smashed up. with all that
extra newspaper floating around, we decided to start a little bonfire to help with the
evening berkeley chill."
Nonviolent ? Guess that depends on your definition? Try Luddite-
c.
It depends on how nonviolence is defined. Lighting a fire is not necassarily a violent act.
Unless newspaper boxes bleed and have nerves and emotions.
Was it disruptive though? Yes, that is probably the more appropriate word to define actions like that, rather than sticking with a single word ("is it non-violent or violent!?!?")
If the boxes were used to hit other people with, then that would be violent of course. Otherwise you're rewriting terminology.
Was it disruptive though? Yes, that is probably the more appropriate word to define actions like that, rather than sticking with a single word ("is it non-violent or violent!?!?")
If the boxes were used to hit other people with, then that would be violent of course. Otherwise you're rewriting terminology.
Reclaim the Streets sounds like a great idea, I guess the one in Naperville IL kind of got rained on....
It sounds like you guys were acting like a bunch of assholes though. What kind of tactic is busting up newspaper boxes and lighting fires? yeah it's private property and fuck the capitalists, but where are the tactics? What is the goal -- to party and do whatever because you are political bored and self righteous ?
Are you communicating a message to anyone but the cops?
And then to continue around town tearing shit up? You must think you are invisible ninjas or some other teenage fantasy. I am amazed and impressed that you pulled it off.
I'm not comparing your violence against property to systemic violence against people. But how do you raise conciousness? How do you build a movement? I think that your parties may do little in the way of helping people to develop new politics and ways of organizing.
I also beleive that every bit counts and if people get turned on by destroying corporate property then whoopeee! And maybe some of those Berkeley kids will join you next time! Who knows the fastest way to liberation? I think I do -- unity! Party on -- we can try again in Illinois.
It sounds like you guys were acting like a bunch of assholes though. What kind of tactic is busting up newspaper boxes and lighting fires? yeah it's private property and fuck the capitalists, but where are the tactics? What is the goal -- to party and do whatever because you are political bored and self righteous ?
Are you communicating a message to anyone but the cops?
And then to continue around town tearing shit up? You must think you are invisible ninjas or some other teenage fantasy. I am amazed and impressed that you pulled it off.
I'm not comparing your violence against property to systemic violence against people. But how do you raise conciousness? How do you build a movement? I think that your parties may do little in the way of helping people to develop new politics and ways of organizing.
I also beleive that every bit counts and if people get turned on by destroying corporate property then whoopeee! And maybe some of those Berkeley kids will join you next time! Who knows the fastest way to liberation? I think I do -- unity! Party on -- we can try again in Illinois.
Property destruction is not violence.
Especially something like dismantaling newspaper boxes.
Especially something like dismantaling newspaper boxes.
how do we expect to build a movement? this is the movement that we have been building and it will continue to show as much disrespect to corporations and corporate symbols in our everyday life. if you feel like you need to be "convinced" or someone the actions of a group need to fit into some kind of structure that you have come up with, you'll be waiting a long time. the point is that there are enough convinced people now
Aside from breaking windows and starting fires, I think our movement is headed in the right direction and it is only a MATTER OF TIME before we actually have a real say in what goes on in OUR world.
WHO'S STREETS? OUR STREETS!
WHO'S FREEDOM? OUR FREEDOM!
WHO'S WORLD? OUR WORLD!
Solidarity Forever!
WHO'S STREETS? OUR STREETS!
WHO'S FREEDOM? OUR FREEDOM!
WHO'S WORLD? OUR WORLD!
Solidarity Forever!
I love freedom. I want freedom from the left and the right.
But, if I come over to your house and destroy it, and not hurt any living things, Then by your definition that's not
violence
People will react to "not violent" activity.
Want to hurt the powerful, take away their money, power, span of control.
Nuke Washington D.C.
Live free or Die!
But, if I come over to your house and destroy it, and not hurt any living things, Then by your definition that's not
violence
People will react to "not violent" activity.
Want to hurt the powerful, take away their money, power, span of control.
Nuke Washington D.C.
Live free or Die!
I agree with some of the folks who thought the fire-starters were acting like dumbasses. Even those progressives who might remain in Berkeley will get turned off when they see fires lit in their streets and phone booths. As much as I would like to say that property damage doesn't matter, it does. It's sending a message to people who might be on our side--that "those people" are dangerous, hateful, irrational, and I don't want to hear what they have to say. Do you think if the civil rights activists in the 60's had lit fires in segregationist communities, they would have gotten very far? No, it took sitting peacefully at lunch counters and staging economic boycotts like refusing to take the bus & opting to walk. And while I don't necessarily buy the "turn the other cheek" reaction, it sounded like the cops were for once being cool until the fires and shit forced them to react. Anywya, back to my history lesson--the violent uprisings in communities of color after MLK was shot just led the government to call in the national guard and white people to shake their heads and agree with themselves that "those people" weren't to be trusted. Do we want to be "those people" or people with humanity, people that those not already in the movement can relate to?
While I'm sure it's true that Chron and Ex. boxes bit the dust, and I have no particular objection to that, though it's my understanding that the boxes are owned, or maybe leased, by individuals who generally are rather low-income (sort of like adults with paper routes). But many of the boxes I saw flying over were Bay Guardians, and I don't quite get that -- they might not be great, but they are about the best we have.
For more information:
http://sites.netscape.net/katrap40/
I also felt a lot of the fire business was disturbing--the kind of thing that makes the people doing it feel good, and looks really cool, but I am not sure what the purpose of it is.
I want to ask, "Smashing newspaper racks and settings bonfires is a useful tactic to our cause because ...".
I am not being facetious, I just often wonder if people doing "vandalism" are being as mindful as they can be of their actions, understanding that we are all called to be as skillful in our actions as possible, in order to be most effective at helping to heal our world.
I want to ask, "Smashing newspaper racks and settings bonfires is a useful tactic to our cause because ...".
I am not being facetious, I just often wonder if people doing "vandalism" are being as mindful as they can be of their actions, understanding that we are all called to be as skillful in our actions as possible, in order to be most effective at helping to heal our world.
It seems sometimes that all the energy has lost direction.
I appreciate the success of taking back the streets. I remember the raw energy I felt in Washington at A16, roaming the streets freely, singing and chanting. To truly reclaim the urban landscape is definitely an energizing, liberating, and ultimately TESTING experience. Why testing? Because it forces us to decide why we need to take over the streets. After all, most of us drive cars from time to time, most of us use the public transportation systems. Why are we attempting to totally disrupt our local infrastructure for a day of fun?
It's necessary to keep perspective at all times. This can admittedly be an extraordinarily difficult task. In taking over our communities, and "shutting down" our cities and institutions, we are attempting to force the cause to a head. We are admittedly initiating a conflict on an issue that we feel has not been appropriately addressed. As the initiators of this conflict, we need to remember that the burden of substantiation lies on US - the protesters. We are the vocal minority, we are the activists, we are the impassioned, and hopefully, we are the informed.
We need to remember that this is not a battle, but a struggle. A campaign for rights, a campaign for justice. This is not a war, and we are not soldiers. I recognize many feel that violence (usually property damage) has its place as a tactic. I admit it may occasionally have use, but I unless the use of property damage is EXTREMELY focused, it will always be misinterpreted. In this conflict we initiate for attention, misinterpretation is death. We have learned this the hard way, time and time, and time again.
We must remember we are not fighting the police. In DC our S26 action was a labor action, supporting local parking attendants' right to organize. I support the police officers' right to a fair and just employment just as much as the parking attendants, and just as much as the farmers of Brazil or the sweatshop workers of Taipan. I make an effort each time I find myself on opposing lines to a group of police officers to look into the eyes of the officers, behind the masks and behind the riot gear, to see the individual worker within. I attempt to make eye contact, and often succeed in getting nod of recognition when I smile, acknowledging their individual humanity.
As much as I value the energy of anarchic protest, Property destruction and violent police confrontation do not serve my goals, nor do they serve yours, unless your goals include to be dismissed by all of mainstream America as a violent, misdirected youth.
I wish to be more than a statistic. I wish to be a citizen of a democracy, MY democracy. I recognize the fallacies of congealing all protests of the status quo into the easily dismissed, horribly overextended term, "the movement." I also recognize the cooperation that must be necessary on a broad level and the agreement that must present itself at critical junctures in order for any far-reaching societal change to take effect. And I ask you, please keep in mind what you are protesting. Let each individual action of your mind and body reflect that mission, and present the face that you would like to be plastered on corporate billboards around the world.
Oh, and please don't nuke Washington. It's a fine city with a few fine schools, many fine students, far more fine residents, and an excellent jazz scene. Let's celebrate humanity as we decry its mistaken global economic institutions.
- Nick
Georgetown Solidarity Committee, Washington DC.
I appreciate the success of taking back the streets. I remember the raw energy I felt in Washington at A16, roaming the streets freely, singing and chanting. To truly reclaim the urban landscape is definitely an energizing, liberating, and ultimately TESTING experience. Why testing? Because it forces us to decide why we need to take over the streets. After all, most of us drive cars from time to time, most of us use the public transportation systems. Why are we attempting to totally disrupt our local infrastructure for a day of fun?
It's necessary to keep perspective at all times. This can admittedly be an extraordinarily difficult task. In taking over our communities, and "shutting down" our cities and institutions, we are attempting to force the cause to a head. We are admittedly initiating a conflict on an issue that we feel has not been appropriately addressed. As the initiators of this conflict, we need to remember that the burden of substantiation lies on US - the protesters. We are the vocal minority, we are the activists, we are the impassioned, and hopefully, we are the informed.
We need to remember that this is not a battle, but a struggle. A campaign for rights, a campaign for justice. This is not a war, and we are not soldiers. I recognize many feel that violence (usually property damage) has its place as a tactic. I admit it may occasionally have use, but I unless the use of property damage is EXTREMELY focused, it will always be misinterpreted. In this conflict we initiate for attention, misinterpretation is death. We have learned this the hard way, time and time, and time again.
We must remember we are not fighting the police. In DC our S26 action was a labor action, supporting local parking attendants' right to organize. I support the police officers' right to a fair and just employment just as much as the parking attendants, and just as much as the farmers of Brazil or the sweatshop workers of Taipan. I make an effort each time I find myself on opposing lines to a group of police officers to look into the eyes of the officers, behind the masks and behind the riot gear, to see the individual worker within. I attempt to make eye contact, and often succeed in getting nod of recognition when I smile, acknowledging their individual humanity.
As much as I value the energy of anarchic protest, Property destruction and violent police confrontation do not serve my goals, nor do they serve yours, unless your goals include to be dismissed by all of mainstream America as a violent, misdirected youth.
I wish to be more than a statistic. I wish to be a citizen of a democracy, MY democracy. I recognize the fallacies of congealing all protests of the status quo into the easily dismissed, horribly overextended term, "the movement." I also recognize the cooperation that must be necessary on a broad level and the agreement that must present itself at critical junctures in order for any far-reaching societal change to take effect. And I ask you, please keep in mind what you are protesting. Let each individual action of your mind and body reflect that mission, and present the face that you would like to be plastered on corporate billboards around the world.
Oh, and please don't nuke Washington. It's a fine city with a few fine schools, many fine students, far more fine residents, and an excellent jazz scene. Let's celebrate humanity as we decry its mistaken global economic institutions.
- Nick
Georgetown Solidarity Committee, Washington DC.
For more information:
http://www.georgetown.edu/organizations/so...
Berkeley you rock!
a couple things in response to above opinion:
I actually DON'T think we have enough people for the anti-corporate (globalization) movement. "we" are stilll a minority and there are still way too many damn people in this country who don't know or care about how they, their families and friends are being screwed every day from corporate pigs bastardizing our culture.
"WE" have a valid, solid argument against corporate greed and it must be communicated to everyone.
one thing I like about fires in streets is that it's a great symbol/ritual representing the dynamic awe and beauty of revolutionary spirit.
The bad thing about fires is that i think it's sketchy if you're burning a dumpster of non-biodegradable trash that everyone has to inhale
the party thing.. I don't know, I like it when demonstrations like this have more of a dead-serious tone. It's more fitting than a party atmosphere because we're in a dead serious situation of global exploitation that threatens all of us. Time is running out, I don't know if we can afford spending too much time w/ fun little street parties that usually don't seem to send a clear message to the rest of the country. Let's stay pissed and challenge this dying system
"kick until it fucking breaks"
scoot>>>>><<><<<<>>>><>>>><<>>>><>
ps, why were so many of you absent for the NAB protest?!!?!
a couple things in response to above opinion:
I actually DON'T think we have enough people for the anti-corporate (globalization) movement. "we" are stilll a minority and there are still way too many damn people in this country who don't know or care about how they, their families and friends are being screwed every day from corporate pigs bastardizing our culture.
"WE" have a valid, solid argument against corporate greed and it must be communicated to everyone.
one thing I like about fires in streets is that it's a great symbol/ritual representing the dynamic awe and beauty of revolutionary spirit.
The bad thing about fires is that i think it's sketchy if you're burning a dumpster of non-biodegradable trash that everyone has to inhale
the party thing.. I don't know, I like it when demonstrations like this have more of a dead-serious tone. It's more fitting than a party atmosphere because we're in a dead serious situation of global exploitation that threatens all of us. Time is running out, I don't know if we can afford spending too much time w/ fun little street parties that usually don't seem to send a clear message to the rest of the country. Let's stay pissed and challenge this dying system
"kick until it fucking breaks"
scoot>>>>><<><<<<>>>><>>>><<>>>><>
ps, why were so many of you absent for the NAB protest?!!?!
For more information:
http://www.mediaisland.org
Dude man, like, party on and shit.
Life is just a party and parties weren't meant to last.
2000 zero zero party like it's 1999 and shit, dude.
Like solidarity with our 2 billion brothers and sisters who can't afford a fuckin' bowl of rice and shit, man, like party hearty, man. Like, take back the streets for PAARRTAYS! Dig the groovy party revolution.
Didn't we learn anything from our forebears in the '60s? Party revolution=hedonism----> becoming a whacky Christian nut or a yuppie stooge. Get a clue.
Life is just a party and parties weren't meant to last.
2000 zero zero party like it's 1999 and shit, dude.
Like solidarity with our 2 billion brothers and sisters who can't afford a fuckin' bowl of rice and shit, man, like party hearty, man. Like, take back the streets for PAARRTAYS! Dig the groovy party revolution.
Didn't we learn anything from our forebears in the '60s? Party revolution=hedonism----> becoming a whacky Christian nut or a yuppie stooge. Get a clue.
Well, hmn. "Dude man, like, party on and shit. Life is just a party and parties weren't meant to last. 2000 zero zero party like it's 1999 and shit, dude. " ok, that's a bit of an easy out, don't you think? This is a serious discussion, resorting to a tired homily about repeating the 60s et. al. doesn't do much to further the discussion.
That all being said, I do kinda wonder about the ethics of destroying things in this fashion. What exactly is being accomplished, and how can it be accomplished in a way that reflects what is trying to be communicated, rather than burning a bunch of toxic newsprint and just leaving it for city workers, people who live and/or work in the neighboorhood, etc. to deal with? I'm not saying it's "wrong," just that it could be approached more effectively if that's a tactic that people want to use.
Also, as a woman of color, I'd like to point out that one of the reasons that people of color (and for that matter, women in general, at least in proportion to men) don't show up events like this is that it's just plain too dangerous to get into it with the cops in this kinda setting -- or for that matter, in any setting. What are y'all doing to do outreach and/or provide support to our communities? This is a serious question, y'all -- building a movement takes input from *ALL* sectors of the society, and it takes a lot of awareness and sensitivity to marginalized communities.
Or do you just want to do the stuff that feels good? If so, I'm not gonna stop you, nor could I, nor do I want to -- enjoy, just watch it on the toxic fumes, k? But the prospect of being killed by a cop at a protest that doesn't really represent the communities I live and breathe in doesn't really intrigue me, for some reason.
Phoenix
That all being said, I do kinda wonder about the ethics of destroying things in this fashion. What exactly is being accomplished, and how can it be accomplished in a way that reflects what is trying to be communicated, rather than burning a bunch of toxic newsprint and just leaving it for city workers, people who live and/or work in the neighboorhood, etc. to deal with? I'm not saying it's "wrong," just that it could be approached more effectively if that's a tactic that people want to use.
Also, as a woman of color, I'd like to point out that one of the reasons that people of color (and for that matter, women in general, at least in proportion to men) don't show up events like this is that it's just plain too dangerous to get into it with the cops in this kinda setting -- or for that matter, in any setting. What are y'all doing to do outreach and/or provide support to our communities? This is a serious question, y'all -- building a movement takes input from *ALL* sectors of the society, and it takes a lot of awareness and sensitivity to marginalized communities.
Or do you just want to do the stuff that feels good? If so, I'm not gonna stop you, nor could I, nor do I want to -- enjoy, just watch it on the toxic fumes, k? But the prospect of being killed by a cop at a protest that doesn't really represent the communities I live and breathe in doesn't really intrigue me, for some reason.
Phoenix
Well, hmn. "Dude man, like, party on and shit. Life is just a party and parties weren't meant to last. 2000 zero zero party like it's 1999 and shit, dude. " ok, that's a bit of an easy out, don't you think? This is a serious discussion, resorting to a tired homily about repeating the 60s et. al. doesn't do much to further the discussion.
That all being said, I do kinda wonder about the ethics of destroying things in this fashion. What exactly is being accomplished, and how can it be accomplished in a way that reflects what is trying to be communicated, rather than burning a bunch of toxic newsprint and just leaving it for city workers, people who live and/or work in the neighboorhood, etc. to deal with? I'm not saying it's "wrong," just that it could be approached more effectively if that's a tactic that people want to use.
Also, as a woman of color, I'd like to point out that one of the reasons that people of color (and for that matter, women in general, at least in proportion to men) don't show up events like this is that it's just plain too dangerous to get into it with the cops in this kinda setting -- or for that matter, in any setting. What are y'all doing to do outreach and/or provide support to our communities? This is a serious question, y'all -- building a movement takes input from *ALL* sectors of the society, and it takes a lot of awareness and sensitivity to marginalized communities.
Or do you just want to do the stuff that feels good? If so, I'm not gonna stop you, nor could I, nor do I want to -- enjoy, just watch it on the toxic fumes, k? But the prospect of being killed by a cop at a protest that doesn't really represent the communities I live and breathe in doesn't really intrigue me, for some reason.
Phoenix
That all being said, I do kinda wonder about the ethics of destroying things in this fashion. What exactly is being accomplished, and how can it be accomplished in a way that reflects what is trying to be communicated, rather than burning a bunch of toxic newsprint and just leaving it for city workers, people who live and/or work in the neighboorhood, etc. to deal with? I'm not saying it's "wrong," just that it could be approached more effectively if that's a tactic that people want to use.
Also, as a woman of color, I'd like to point out that one of the reasons that people of color (and for that matter, women in general, at least in proportion to men) don't show up events like this is that it's just plain too dangerous to get into it with the cops in this kinda setting -- or for that matter, in any setting. What are y'all doing to do outreach and/or provide support to our communities? This is a serious question, y'all -- building a movement takes input from *ALL* sectors of the society, and it takes a lot of awareness and sensitivity to marginalized communities.
Or do you just want to do the stuff that feels good? If so, I'm not gonna stop you, nor could I, nor do I want to -- enjoy, just watch it on the toxic fumes, k? But the prospect of being killed by a cop at a protest that doesn't really represent the communities I live and breathe in doesn't really intrigue me, for some reason.
Phoenix
leftists need to fucking lighten up!!
having a party with strangers in your community who are all interested in making a point about issues and the society we live in is one of the most political things you can ever do.
continue partying. continue having fun. and when the revolution is over, we'll still be dancing, and we'll be dancing on their fucking graves.
having a party with strangers in your community who are all interested in making a point about issues and the society we live in is one of the most political things you can ever do.
continue partying. continue having fun. and when the revolution is over, we'll still be dancing, and we'll be dancing on their fucking graves.
Everyone needs to party, but you all neccesarily doing shit to create a more just world by vandalizing private property. No defense for corporate property, but it doesn't really do much to put forward any goals of social justice, it just makes a mess -- a small one... It takes organization and commitment to a community to make a difference! Trashing shit gets your adrenaline going, but what about tommorrow night? Why not devote your energy to building alternatives? And if you do, already word up to ya. Fucking shit up (property damage) may be courageous, but it doesn't accomplish much in the long term -- and there for it ain't something to be that proud of. The bay area and the west coast are a little different that the rest of the country and if you think that your movement is big enough than work it a little huh!
Partying is great, but beware hedonism and self-absorbtion.
Would someone please explain to me how tipping over a newspaper box, lighting a fire and breaking some windows qualifies as a revolutionary act?
It's a matter of energy. Where ought it be directed? If a thousand people show up to protest the NAB, OK, that has some direction. A thousand people breaking shit in the streets for a few hours may make you feel "powerful," but what does it accomplish? People do get hurt. People do get thrown in jail. If people are going to get hurt and thrown in jail, it might as well be in some kind of action with a clear target. Read <i>The Art of War.</i> Mr. Businessman and Mr. Spymaster did. Maybe that's why they consistently kick our asses so handily. The greatest victory is to win a war without ever going into battle.
Take those same thousand people, have them put on clean clothes and go knock on doors for a few hours to register voters and support Ralph Nader. Have them go to the deepest depths of Oakland and -- wow, here's a concept -- CLEAN SHIT UP for a few hours! How can you talk about the importance of community when destroying your own community represents a "good time" and a "revolutionary act?" I don't want people whose idea of a good time is smashing shit up for the sake of smashing shit up running my community.
I'm the last person who would ever say that violent protest is always wrong, but it needs to be focussed and strategically valuable. Otherwise it's just mass jerking off.
Would someone please explain to me how tipping over a newspaper box, lighting a fire and breaking some windows qualifies as a revolutionary act?
It's a matter of energy. Where ought it be directed? If a thousand people show up to protest the NAB, OK, that has some direction. A thousand people breaking shit in the streets for a few hours may make you feel "powerful," but what does it accomplish? People do get hurt. People do get thrown in jail. If people are going to get hurt and thrown in jail, it might as well be in some kind of action with a clear target. Read <i>The Art of War.</i> Mr. Businessman and Mr. Spymaster did. Maybe that's why they consistently kick our asses so handily. The greatest victory is to win a war without ever going into battle.
Take those same thousand people, have them put on clean clothes and go knock on doors for a few hours to register voters and support Ralph Nader. Have them go to the deepest depths of Oakland and -- wow, here's a concept -- CLEAN SHIT UP for a few hours! How can you talk about the importance of community when destroying your own community represents a "good time" and a "revolutionary act?" I don't want people whose idea of a good time is smashing shit up for the sake of smashing shit up running my community.
I'm the last person who would ever say that violent protest is always wrong, but it needs to be focussed and strategically valuable. Otherwise it's just mass jerking off.
hey come on now. partying in the streets is not necessarily the same thing as a house party or a dinner party or a cocktail party. it's a different kind of party.
why exactly *should* we "beware" of hedonism and self absorption? one of the reasons it's great to reclaim the streets, even if only for a little bit, is because there's little else left to do on your average night in the east and west bay, and everywhere else. it's a reaction, both symbolic and actual, to the insane situation we have now, especially in oakland, where the streets are basically a big club for cops to manage. they're the only ones who seem to "belong" there, who are not questioned for "just hanging out" there. lighting fires on the streets says to them and everyone else that we, and you, can do more than just walk to work and wait for the bus on these city streets. you are allowed to just stop and look around and have a little party with other people there. you don't have to pay to get in because you already paid for the streets with tax money.
would it have been okay if the people at reclaim the streets had brought logs and twigs and burned that? woudl anyone have had any objections to that? for that matter would it have been okay if they had brought and set up one of those great big kiddie pools and had a pool party in the street? because maybe that's something we should try next time.
hell yes there's a message. sometimes liberation is not pretty. when you're feeling kind of trapped and repressed in the city, it's quite amazing to do what you feel like doing. most of thetime, you can't just do what you feel like doing without spending a lot of money along the way. when you party in the streets, you just make a party out of whatever is there. a fire, remember, is kind of a good thing to a lot of people, it's warm, people love ti stare into it, and it brings a festive atmosphere to things, it always draws a crowd.
so next time let's bring kindling and marshmallows, or to give the firemen no chance to get indignant, a bunch of kiddie pools (the hard shell plastic ones could also be used as impromptu riot police shields, eh?) and water guns (the bright neon kind or the cheap ass transparent kind that are obviously not real guns, right?
yeah maybe this sort of thing is for a younger crowd, but we need this. and being thankful is different from being guilty about people not having rice to eat. guilt is different from determination, and for me, I need a lot more than guilt to make me get myself out there and demand a better life for us all, all right? people starving and living under serious repression doesn't mean I shouldn't allow myself to have sex or to eat more than subsistence food or do anything that's "self-indulgent". man everything we do is self-indulgent, if you're doing what you want to do. altruism is self-indulgent too, and it's not a bad feeling either.
rock on, excuse my length
why exactly *should* we "beware" of hedonism and self absorption? one of the reasons it's great to reclaim the streets, even if only for a little bit, is because there's little else left to do on your average night in the east and west bay, and everywhere else. it's a reaction, both symbolic and actual, to the insane situation we have now, especially in oakland, where the streets are basically a big club for cops to manage. they're the only ones who seem to "belong" there, who are not questioned for "just hanging out" there. lighting fires on the streets says to them and everyone else that we, and you, can do more than just walk to work and wait for the bus on these city streets. you are allowed to just stop and look around and have a little party with other people there. you don't have to pay to get in because you already paid for the streets with tax money.
would it have been okay if the people at reclaim the streets had brought logs and twigs and burned that? woudl anyone have had any objections to that? for that matter would it have been okay if they had brought and set up one of those great big kiddie pools and had a pool party in the street? because maybe that's something we should try next time.
hell yes there's a message. sometimes liberation is not pretty. when you're feeling kind of trapped and repressed in the city, it's quite amazing to do what you feel like doing. most of thetime, you can't just do what you feel like doing without spending a lot of money along the way. when you party in the streets, you just make a party out of whatever is there. a fire, remember, is kind of a good thing to a lot of people, it's warm, people love ti stare into it, and it brings a festive atmosphere to things, it always draws a crowd.
so next time let's bring kindling and marshmallows, or to give the firemen no chance to get indignant, a bunch of kiddie pools (the hard shell plastic ones could also be used as impromptu riot police shields, eh?) and water guns (the bright neon kind or the cheap ass transparent kind that are obviously not real guns, right?
yeah maybe this sort of thing is for a younger crowd, but we need this. and being thankful is different from being guilty about people not having rice to eat. guilt is different from determination, and for me, I need a lot more than guilt to make me get myself out there and demand a better life for us all, all right? people starving and living under serious repression doesn't mean I shouldn't allow myself to have sex or to eat more than subsistence food or do anything that's "self-indulgent". man everything we do is self-indulgent, if you're doing what you want to do. altruism is self-indulgent too, and it's not a bad feeling either.
rock on, excuse my length
Regarding property distruction and violence and the success of the non-violent wing of the civil rights movement versus the more violent rebellion and revolutionary ideologies: i think they went hand in hand, and that non-violence could not succeed without the threat of more violent tactics. If you do more research into the history of non-violent movements around the world, you'll find this to be true. And, if you're militant about being non-violent, and include property distruction as violence, you may want to look at where you're coming from and what you hope to achieve. The status quo will almost never give up power without the threat of violence. And they will most certainly react to almost any threat (even non-violence) with violence. If you're a true believer in using only non-violent tactics, be prepared to be beat-down, and question if it's helpful to the movement in the long run.
to me, i don't want to rule out tactics, just make sure that all tactics are available for use at appropriate times. And i don't think that burning newspapers or breaking a citibank window either qualify as violent or the wrong tactic for this day and age. I thought that they added seriousness to the party atmosphere. I also think that a party atmosphere is a great tactic at times. Have fun...
to me, i don't want to rule out tactics, just make sure that all tactics are available for use at appropriate times. And i don't think that burning newspapers or breaking a citibank window either qualify as violent or the wrong tactic for this day and age. I thought that they added seriousness to the party atmosphere. I also think that a party atmosphere is a great tactic at times. Have fun...
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