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Denounce the attack on Revolution Books at the Anarchist Book Fair!
by Bay Area Revolution Club ( bayarearevolutionclub [at] gmail.com )
Saturday Mar 14th, 2009 10:50 PM
Denounce the attack on Revolution Books at the Anarchist Book Fair!
Saturday, 3/14:
Two activists from Revolution Books and the Bay Area Revolution Club showed up at the anarchist book fair today eager to get to know some of the revolutionary-minded and anarchist youth that we have been fighting alongside of recently in protests against the Israeli massacre in Gaza and the struggle for justice for Oscar Grant. Although we were hoping to get into some lofty discussions/debates about the future classless society, free of oppression and exploitation, that we all want to see and the important question of how we are going to get there, our main purpose in coming to the book fair this year was to get the word out about the “People’s Tribunal: The Murder of Oscar Grant & the Epidemic of Police Brutality” happening March 22 in Oakland. We also wanted to mix it up with people about a special issue of Revolution newspaper out right now: “A Declaration: For Women’s Liberation and the Emancipation of All of Humanity.” And we wanted to extend our solidarity to the RNC8 and let people know about the excellent new series in Revolution newspaper about their case: http://revcom.us/a/157/RNC_pt1-en.html

Unfortunately this message was censored by the organizers of the anarchist book fair. First we were told we could set up our books and T-shirts in the courtyard (where other non-official vendors had set up). Then several older men came over to us, kicking our materials and destroying one of our DVDs. The main book fair organizer told us we had to leave the courtyard, but that we could set up on the grass. After we’d been hanging out on the grass for less than an hour, someone came up to our table and poured a large bucket of water all over our books, newspapers and flyers, destroying hundreds of dollars worth of literature. Many anarchists who witnessed this expressed shock and outrage. One young woman said, “It’s no different from book burning.” The two activists from Revolution Books then went inside to talk to the main book fair organizer about what had happened and see if he could help us in any way. Instead he told us we had to leave immediately and that we were asking for it.

People, this is not how political differences should be dealt with among people who hate this system and are trying to fight for real change. We are revolutionary communists and we operate on the principle of unity-struggle-unity, which means we want to unite all who can be united around the urgent political battles of the day, struggle with people over our final goals, and (hopefully) come to a higher level of unity through debate and discussion. When anarchists and others show up at our protests and events, we welcome them. We don’t fear differences among people. The back and forth exchange of ideas is part of how we get a better understanding of the world in order to change it.

Censorship and destruction of revolutionary literature cannot be tolerated. Who wins when shit like this happens? The fucking system! The movement needs higher standards. If shit like this is accepted, what else will we accept? The two activists from Revolution Books circulated the following petition at end of the day today at the book fair. If you would like to add your name, please put it in the comments section.

The statement reads:
"Revolution Books, a communist bookstore in Berkeley, was forced to leave the anarchist book fair and told they could set up outside by the organizers. After setting up their table, someone poured a bucket of water on their books, fliers, and newspapers, destroying hundreds of dollars of literature. We denounce this act and call on the organizers of the anarchist book fair to do the same. This sort of attack is repressive and reactionary and is the complete opposite of the culture of discussion, debate, and dissent that we need in order to create a vibrant, liberated society."

Signed (as of 3/14/09):

1) Josh (Prison Literature Project)
2) Oscar
3) Aaron K.
4) Alex (Diablo Valley College SDS)
5) D. (Las Abejas)
6) Andrew Leonard (CCSF Green Corps)
7) Max Kadji (Prison Literature Project)
8) Dumpster Muffin
9) Armando Resendez
10) Ida
11) Daniel
12) Jose Palofox
13) Allen Andre (Anarcho-surrealist poet)
14) Harun Arsalai
15) Joaquin Flores-Gilberg
16) Eric De Souza
17) D. Boone Ashlock
18) Noah Gresham-Lancaster (Berkeley Copwatch)
19) Bryan Reiss (Diablo Valley College SDS, Contra Costa Radical Action)
20) Mickey Huff (Project Censored)
21) Frances Capell (Project Censored)
22) Elliot Van Patten (Project Censored)
23) Elizabeth Sims
24) Padri V. (IWW, Peace and Freedom)
25) Ryan Saari (Artist, NMG)
26) Fly (Killer Banshee Studios)
27) Kriss De Jong (Killer Banshee Studios)
28) Ayr
29) John Durham
30) Alexander Akin
31) Katrina Banez (Berkeley Copwatch)
32) Laura Z. (Berkeley Copwatch)
33) Kelly
34) Zachary Runningwolf

Comments  (Hide Comments)

by Pissed off Faggoat
Saturday Mar 14th, 2009 10:58 PM
you all are fucking idiots. i am happy those people fucked you up.

I would like to remind everyone that until about 10 years ago the RCP held the position that homosexuality would be eradicated after the revolution. They said it was a product of a capitalist and sexist society.
Thanks to all of you who trashed the literature of a heterosexist organization
by Mr. Obama
Saturday Mar 14th, 2009 10:58 PM
Barrack Hussein Obama

P.S. All of our hopes and dreams.
by Johnny D
Saturday Mar 14th, 2009 10:59 PM
John D. Rockefeller
by Mr. Oooooo
Saturday Mar 14th, 2009 11:00 PM
Barrack Hussein Obama
by hitler
Saturday Mar 14th, 2009 11:03 PM
Hitler whole heartedly signs this petition!
by Roy Wasden
Saturday Mar 14th, 2009 11:03 PM
Modesto Chief of Police Roy Wasden Sr.

You hit 'em in the bay, we'll hit 'em at home. That's fucking teamwork!
by Bob Avakian
Saturday Mar 14th, 2009 11:04 PM
I do not support this petition. In fact, I can't believe y'all have believed me for this long. Really. Grow Up. I mean, I already took your money, you lost. Just go home.
by Funny Guy
Saturday Mar 14th, 2009 11:07 PM
But please stop deleting my comments. They're funny.
by fag-goat
Saturday Mar 14th, 2009 11:09 PM
RCP is a heterosexist organization. Why did you delete the comments criticizing it?


by anarchist
Saturday Mar 14th, 2009 11:10 PM
a petition.

im really going to see the validity of a petition where one of the people who you got to sign it signed as "dumpster muffin"

people dont like you, boo fucking hoo.


next time just dont go.
by TC Anarchist
Saturday Mar 14th, 2009 11:16 PM
PS I am a friend of the RNC 8 and fellow member of the radical community in Minneapolis, and I can assure you that they are just as disgusted with the RCP as the people who drenched the RCP.

Yo RCP stop trying to co-opt movements.
by YO
Saturday Mar 14th, 2009 11:18 PM
YO ANARCHIST COMMENTERS. LETS JUST GO TO REVOLUTION BOOKS RIGHT NOW. THROW DOWN. AND STUFF.
by hitler
Saturday Mar 14th, 2009 11:26 PM
WHy did you delete my comment? Hitler loves the RCP.

I am hitler, I hate homos...just like those slightly creepy commies!
by but
Saturday Mar 14th, 2009 11:26 PM
what happened today is just really fucked up

the revolution club has been out there for justice for oscar grant, working with the families of police terror and other groups

anarchist organization around the issue has been virtually non-existant. in fact, I'm not sure if there's been any march/rally/whatever that's been organized as an anarchist event. it's actually been more of anarchists glomming onto events organized by others, so the point about co-opting things is a bit of the pot calling the kettle black here

and, no, I'm not in the RCP nor will I ever be, but I will fight alongside them for justice for people of color that are abused far too often by the forces of the state.

what are the water-tossers doing to fight against police terror?

by Uncle Joe
Saturday Mar 14th, 2009 11:29 PM
Hitler, damn you! These are my children, not your's!

Death to the Mensheviks! Up the RCP!

Uncle Josef Stalin
by hitler
Saturday Mar 14th, 2009 11:30 PM
stalin...chill man. i was backing your people's support of genocidal maniacs and heterosexist tools.


by Man of Steel
Saturday Mar 14th, 2009 11:31 PM
Well, if that's the case then... do you want to bring the KY, or should I?
by hitler
Saturday Mar 14th, 2009 11:33 PM
bring lots. i want to be a little piggie tonight.

hitler and stalin....fucking the night away while the commies do our dirty work against the queers. if we get them to rally against the anarchists and queermos then no one will know we fist eachother on a regular basis
by one more thought
Saturday Mar 14th, 2009 11:33 PM
perhaps they can think of creative ways to stoke the tempers revealed today. wouldn't be hard with so much gleeful reactionaryism on display today

the revolution in the bay area just took one big step backwards today

nice job

you can pat yourselves on the back as the cops club us all in the heads
by Frisk
Saturday Mar 14th, 2009 11:36 PM
Are you fucking kidding me? RCP following around rioters and passing out newspapers="Organizing for Oscar Grant?" As opposed to anarchists attacking police stations, organizing solidarity marches in SF and actually putting themselves on the line as recently as the BART station shutdown? I see no reason why assholes propping up a totalitarian leftist dictator should not be fucked with at a bookfair any more than Nazi douchebags.
by Joe Stalin
Saturday Mar 14th, 2009 11:37 PM
Fisting for the revolution! FBI can get in on it too, for all I care. The more the merrier! As long as they bring the batons...
by ahem
Saturday Mar 14th, 2009 11:54 PM
there was one single small solidarity march in SF, I stand corrected on my point that "nothing" has been anarchist-organized for Oscar Grant. but that march melted into nothing when the cops showed up

police station? what? when and where was that? was it a onetime thing or is that an ongoing campaign?

as for putting things on the line in a bart shutdown, I saw a group of anarchists at the last NJNB action at fruitvale, yes, but they were just standing around in the background putting absolutely nothing on the line, and I think they left before the 2 hour demo was even over

and you can bet that all of the SF anarchists will be at the consulate on monday and barely any will show to fight for justice at oakland city hall. not that what happened to Tristan is not absolutely horrible, it 's fucking sickening, but that's along the same lines, strategy-wise as the very big anarchist-organized march in solidarity with the greek rebellion. that was a big action, but it had absolutely nothing to do with struggles here in the bay area, running through a shopping mall at random and all.

anarchists seem to be good at getting outraged about things that happen thousands of miles away, and sometimes locally, but not so great at long haul sustained actions and reaching out to communities unlike themselves in fights that stand a chance of real success right here in the bay area

no gods, no masters, sure, but if christians and commies are fighting for long-overdue justice in oakland, they will be my allies. too bad so many anarchists feel that any revolution action has to be exactly on their terms or they'll just take their marbles and go home
RCP has always tried to parasitically recruit young anarchists through their various front groups, such as No Business As Usual in the 80's to Refuse and Resist, Oct 22nd Coalition, World Can't Wait...etc. while at the same time spreading anti-anarchist propaganda through their Revolutionary Wanker newspaper such as the "Anarchism vs. Maoism" series by their dear chairman Bob Avakian. Here's an article discussing that: http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=20070620101506994
by author
Saturday Mar 14th, 2009 11:59 PM
sorry about your books...pay back for selling out the anarchists after the revolution in Spain i guess...
by Gary Rumor
( GaryCy [at] peoplepc.com ) Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 12:04 AM
I am no fan of the RCP, I find the dogmatic adherence to the leadership of the same person over so many years to be bad for the internal growth of any organization. If they had some periodic change in leadership I would at least have some faith in their belief in democratic process.
But I am no fan of thuggery between one faction of the movement towards communism and another. I have called myself an anarchist communist for years, although for the last few I have begun to rethink the radical project and am probably more of a democratic socialist than anything else at this point in time.
Anarchist violence against Communists especially at a book fair where ideas are supposed to be exchanged is a sign of immaturity and may threaten the very existence of the Book fair. The organizers should really discourage violence of this sort. Action taken against the state, or against the enemy is one thing, but to attack someone simply because they believe in a different path to the promised land is simply absurd.
by well
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 12:11 AM
your caricature of the revolution people is unfair

they organized the rally and march on february 6th. they have a tribunal coming up. I have a strong feeling they will keep organizing around the issue for the long term

and like this post says, when anarchists show up at rev books events, they don't throw water on them

they have worked with numerous families of police violence, the stolen lives folks, and others. what anarchist group is in constant contact with families or non-anarchist groups?

what exactly is the next anarchist action for justice for Oscar Grant? or will anarchists just keep showing up at events organized by others like CAPE, RCP, and NJNB, more often than not in background roles? frankly, the african american community is largely afraid of anarchists, unfair as that is, and there's been virtually no anarchist outreach to correct such misperceptions

what is it that you really want, ideological purity to your constructs or a more just world, hell even a more just bay area? grow up and stop missing the forest for the trees



by Justin (Atlanta Revolution Club)
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 12:14 AM
Justin (Atlanta Revolution Club)
by I was there
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 12:25 AM
I think I distinctly recognize some of the same faces from spain and romania in berkeley today

rat bastards

if they are going to be a part of any fight for justice, I'd rather just not have it. to hell with Oscar Grant and the people of oakland, long abused by cops. I refuse to be in the same room with those bob-loving weirdos. instead, I'll introvert at my book fairs and throw water on anyone who dares show up without an @ badge
by truth
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 12:26 AM
The system only wins in situations like these. Communication and cooperation are essential.
by Basil
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 12:32 AM
they system wins?

Sorry, but maoists are very much a part of the totality of the system of domination.

fuck them.
by revolutionary
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 12:32 AM
Unable to confront a revolutionary line, they pour water on it?!

The pamphlet, "Marxism Leninism Maoism vs. Anarchism" by Bob Avakian is very sharp, and should be read by anyone trying to discern what it means to be a real revolutionary. While these particular anarchist's infantile posturing may appeal to some (who in the end, are clearly more interested in lifestyle politics than the emancipation of humanity), I hope revolutionary minded folks take this as an opportunity to dig into the real differences between anarchism and communism.

MLM vs. Anarchism:
Part 1: Doing Away with Classes and What a Proletarian State Is Good For
http://revcom.us/a/v19/910-19/919/anar1.htm

Part 2: Learning and Leading
http://revcom.us/a/v19/920-29/920/anar2.htm

Part 3: Why Do We Need a Vanguard Party
http://revcom.us/a/v19/920-29/921/anar3.htm

Part 4: Why You Need a Revolutionary Army in Socialist Society
http://revcom.us/a/v19/920-29/922/anar4.htm

* Wayne Price of Northeasertn Federation of Anarchist-Communists (NEFAC) wrote a response, http://www.nefac.net/en/node/2236 that is way off, and instead of taking on the line, appeals to all petty bourgois prejudices, and resorts to 'tried and true' anti-communist banter.

by Basil
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 12:32 AM
they system wins?

Sorry, but maoists are very much a part of the totality of the system of domination.

fuck them.
by Basil
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 12:33 AM
they system wins?

Sorry, but maoists are very much a part of the totality of the system of domination.

fuck them.
by me
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 12:33 AM
I don't think anarchists or leftists should work with the RCP in anyway. That said, the RCP should not be physically assaulted. The bookfaire organizers should denounce that kind of behavior.
by revolutionary
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 12:36 AM
Unable to confront a revolutionary line, they pour water on it?! Glad to hear other anarchists are calling this shit out.

The pamphlet, "Marxism Leninism Maoism vs. Anarchism" by Bob Avakian is very sharp, and should be read by anyone trying to discern what it means to be a real revolutionary. While these particular anarchist's infantile posturing may appeal to some (who in the end, are clearly more interested in lifestyle politics than the emancipation of humanity), I hope revolutionary minded folks take this as an opportunity to dig into the real differences between anarchism and communism.

MLM vs. Anarchism:
Part 1: Doing Away with Classes and What a Proletarian State Is Good For
http://revcom.us/a/v19/910-19/919/anar1.htm

Part 2: Learning and Leading
http://revcom.us/a/v19/920-29/920/anar2.htm

Part 3: Why Do We Need a Vanguard Party
http://revcom.us/a/v19/920-29/921/anar3.htm

Part 4: Why You Need a Revolutionary Army in Socialist Society
http://revcom.us/a/v19/920-29/922/anar4.htm

* Wayne Price of Northeasertn Federation of Anarchist-Communists (NEFAC) wrote a response, http://www.nefac.net/en/node/2236 that is way off, and instead of taking on the line, appeals to all petty bourgois prejudices, and resorts to 'tried and true' anti-communist banter.

by a
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 12:46 AM
So whose dick is bigger now?

This is fucking stupid.

I don't get the chairman bob leadership ideals in rcp, but how can physical assertion of anarchist organizing be any better.

I don't like rcp's co-opting of every movement or radical struggle, (in the same vein as fucking capitalist niche markets, just more immediate), and am glad they got a response for handing out their shitty papers, but there are better ways to do it.

RCP, making petitions is a lobbyist tactic--who are you lobbying to? Also the views of the organizers of the a-bookfaire do not represent anyone else's views except their own--what are you trying to prove? We don't snap to party politics the same way you would to Bob's.
by RAANista
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 12:54 AM
I think it's rather funny that some anarchists are denouncing this "attack" on the RCP today. Perhaps they haven't done any of their homework, but last time I checked authoritarian communists have been quick to lock up and/or kill anarchists. Not to mention that the sole idea that draws anarchists together is the idea of anti-statism, along with anti-capitalism. Why should we as anti-authoritarians compromise what makes us anarchists to work with people who don't give a fuck about working people (For those of you who don't know, the Maoist party in Nepal recently banned worker's strikes after taking power. Proletarian state?)? It's painfully obvious that any state will be bourgeois, and any sort of attempt at using the state for the purpose of reaching a stateless society is nonsensical and stupid. Maoists, Leninists, Stalinists, etc. are just as much the enemy of anarchists and the working class as fascists. Calling yourself "communist" does not make you my comrade.

Another point I'd like to make is that this is an explicitly ANARCHIST bookfair. This is not a political bookfair, or even a Leftist book fair. The entire purpose of this event is for anarchists across the West Coast to come together and discuss strategies and the future of anarchist. Not to debate with statist little kids. I do find it ironic that after whining and crying about anarchists not wanting to create a dialogue with them, the Stalinists thought it would be nice to interupt a discussion already taking place.
by ntuit
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 1:01 AM
i don't need someone to censor anything for me and this sounds like censoring at its worst. yea, i can see not having them in the hall but outside...well, that is free space and really inside is too. the nazis, the police, the military....they can be there too but i don't have to interact with them. most people would ignore or laugh. I have my own mind and i don't need to protect others from looking into whatever they choose to look into.

if anything this is an opportunity to debate or challenge thinking. see what really holds up. bring up the history, everything and see where it goes. Also, aren't we in a drought?
how about these folks?

http://www.bayareanationalanarchists.com/blog/

or is that too skeery?
by RAANista
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 1:14 AM
I have no problem with people looking up things for themselves. But the RCP setting up at an anarchist even is provocation. The liberalism within the anarchist movement needs to stop. Today's action was a line drawn in the sand. This bullshit hippie nonsense needs to end. Leninists, Maoists, and Stalinists need to be recognized as class traitors, and enemies of anarchists. Remember that old saying "No Compromise" ?



The Bay Area National Anarchists are a joke. No one cares about nerdy white kids who don't understand racism as a social construct.
by MC
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 1:41 AM
pouring water on someone else's property is pretty silly. and it does make anarchists look like authoritarian assholes, at least to most people. and the RCP does a lot of good out reach, especially to groups that anarchists unfortunetly seem to ignor.

that being said, as someone who was born and lived in an eastern european soviet state, maoists are just as bad as nazis.
as much as i think the state of israel does not exist, i am not going to work with nazis.
as much as i think capitalism should not exist, i am not going to work with maoists.

so while i think this action will make anarchists as a whole seem childish and authoritarian, i would not expect most other anarchists to denounce it. i would hope that anarchists would have enough knowledge of their movement's history and the moaists to know how much of a threat moaism is to freedom lovers. sure, right now they might be down to march in the streets with us, ut what would happen if they ever got any sort of power? i think destroying our books would be the least of our worries if that were to happen.
by no compromise
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 2:03 AM
where everything happens on your own terms on your own time, and the revolution gets to pick and choose who it needs help from because revolutions never involve more than a few people and especially not those who disagree. there's nothing so urgent about black and brown men getting gunned down by cops that would ever necessitate compromise to achieve justice. justice can wait if it involves working with commies. no justice no peace has become no compromise no justice

so, none of the spain/nocompromise/nevertrust/bobsucks bold talkers in these comments have bothered to address concerns raised here about Oscar Grant activism, instead just offering faux outrage over things that happened last century in other countries or generalized ideological posturing. the RCP has done real organizing around the issue, working with families and whatnot. so do anarchists just bow out of the issue because RCP is involved? are anarchists going to do anything that might make a difference for justice, or even anything at all besides glom onto other groups oscar grant demos etc? or did anarchists just burn out on the issue and move on to more fun things after jan 7 and 14 in oakland, the sf action on jan 12, and maybe a bit on jan 30 in oakland? it shouldn't require pointing out that that was two months ago

also, can someone address the fact that social justice african americans are largely afraid of anarchists and why there has been no sustained outreach of any kind to change that perception?

frankly, I care more about justice for oscar grant now today than I do about which is more right, anarchism or communism, both of which are far off utopian dreams other than a few isolated success stories here and there
by Oakland Resident
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 2:38 AM
The same goal essentially is being strive for by each "party". When it comes to social injustices in our own local communities, we need to work together to accomplish these tasks. Keep throwing up the divide and the system wins. This act just sounds childish. I could have sworn the Anarchist Book Fair in the first place was just a place to socialize with your friends and show of your malnourished dog because that's all I saw today.
by so sign me.
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 3:05 AM
This is a lot of the reason why I'm not an anarchist anymore. When pressed about post-revolution justice and community peacekeeping, anarchists offer up vague things about ostracization, or about post-revolution happiness leading to crimelessness, or about the roots of transgression being in deprivation, or whatever. However, in practice, anarchist justice often comes down to character assassination, volunteer vigilantism, and lazziez-faire thuggery. After all, you can't make someone behave, if you dont believe in making people do (or not do) things. But you can always assert your, um, oppositional will, right?

I suspect the eventual result would be not so different than what we have now, minus the current system's perqs of social 'stability,' built though it is on the bloodthirsty viciousness of the current system. What about those white guys with guns preventing people from fleeing hurricane-devastated New Orleans? Who's going to prevent that? No, anarchist 'justice' in contemporary Amerikan society will produce everything from the 'Army of God' to, well, there once was a dashing young anarchist named Benito, who moved on to bigger if not better things once his ego got to the triumph-of-the-will stage.

Don't get me wrong, I'm really not much of a Christian-- but no less a countercultural authority than William S. Burroughs liked to say that "by their works ye shall know them, not by their disclaimers." In my plus-20 years of far-left activism, many of those as a 'self-described anarchist,' I have never seen the RCP be anything but friendly and, well, comradely with anarchos-- and a lot of other people with whom they otherwise disagreed-- and that includes both sharp debates, and also hanging out for beers and friendliness after those debates. That also includes direct action-- like doing clinic defense against attacks by 'christian' fascists. However, by now the San Francisco Anarchist Book "Fair" has a track record of tolerance for, and in some quarters encouragement of, the violent expulsion of left-wing, communist groups whose ideas some among them don't like-- expulsions conducted by means of squadristi of volunteer vigilantes and the pettiest of thugs. Hell, the local police are more tolerant than that these days-- and that's saying something, given the history of the SFPD.

In case it's not crystal clear, I hereby denounce the aforementioned attack against the RCP comrades (whom I've been known to hang out with, and to sharply and publicly disagree with in their own fora, and have not joined, and generally respect, particularly with some of the changes in their thinking this decade) at the SF@B, as per this post, and I hereby attach my name to the petition above to that effect.

For old times' sake, sign me
Deke Motif Nihilson

PS: Obviously I can't speak for him, but I'm pretty sure that Hugh Mejia would have signed this petition too, if he were still around to do so.
by Steve Ongerth
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 3:26 AM
I'm no fan of the RCP.

I didn't witness the confrontation, though I may have seen a remnant of it after I came back to the book fair from lunch.

Certainly the "anarchists" who ran off the "communists" were no doubt a small minority of the participants, had no mandate from the majority present, did not attempt an organized response to the "communist" presence. Yet, all of the other "anarchists" will be lumped in with those that ran off the "communists".

In my opinion, it would have been one thing if the folks being run off were nazis, fascists, racists, homophobes, mysoginists, or white supremicists of one stripe or another. Are the RCP /really/ in the same camp? Perhaps by their actions they are, but by their rhetoric and professed beliefs, I would argue that they're not nearly the same.

Would it not been a more productive use of everyone's time and energy to invite these "communists" to a debate?

Would that not have better advanced the cause of anarchism?

And BTW, is this whole fight really the best use of everyone's time?

Just a few thoughts everyone. Good night all...

by Boone A.
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 6:00 AM
While poring water on your materials was definitely wrong, and the young woman had a point about it being the same as book burning: WTF were you guys doing there? I understand the RCP likes to struggle with people all the time, but a Vanguardist party at a Anarchist Book fair... "[You] were asking for it," can't say I totally disagree, given that "anarchist" is used as a pejorative by some Rev Club members.

Either way it was wrong to destroy your material---it's sectarian bullshit. Marx and Bakunin may have split over 100 years ago but we don't need to stay so damn separate. A left that could sit down at a table and coordinate plans, would be a much stronger left.
by BTV
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 7:09 AM
"While poring water on your materials was definitely wrong, and the young woman had a point about it being the same as book burning: WTF were you guys doing there?"

This is the same argument many rapists use to justify their assaults. "Well, your honor, I realize it was wrong, but she was asking for it. If she wasn't drinking, and wearing such a tight skirt....blablabla"


by Sludge
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 7:13 AM
In a tact reminiscent of the defunct "Protest Warriors" and the actively offensive IsraeloFacsists, the RCP invaded a venue where their statist philosophy and antagonistic attitudes were offensive. They received direct action which was appropriate counter to their infiltration tactics. RCP is offensive to anarchist attitudes as are the other state tools of abuse.

Go whine somewhere else or organize your own little fair. Call it Dinosaurs for Change!
by Anarchist
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 8:52 AM
The RCP has no business selling their garbage at the anarchist book fair. The RCP wasn't invited, wasn't wanted, and represent a political tradition that is hostile towards anarchists. The RCP should go run their own bookfair, where they can control who exhibits and who doesn't. It's called freedom of association. It's ridiculous that anybody is sympathetic to the RCP over this incident, given that they clearly provoked it.

I'm not surprised that the RCP is still tailing behind anarchists after all these decades.
by Oscar
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 8:57 AM
The Bay Area Anarchist Book Fair draws thousands of attendees from around California and beyond. The week of anarchist events draws even more in total.

The RCP? Can't even organize their own bookfair. Still peddling idiotic nonsense from their cult leaders.

Anarchism is a vibrant growing movement across the United States, with anarchists organizing activism, struggle, and projects in many cities and towns.

The RCP? Hawking newspapers in a few liberal cities like New York and San Francisco.
by Slava
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 9:10 AM
I'm a member of the Bound Together Collective, and I pretty much hate the RCP. Until about 2003, their position on gays was that it was bourgeois decadence, although they said they could understand lesbianism more than gay males because at least lesbians were trying to escape male oppression. No joke - that was their party line. Then they decided they wanted to change the party line because their cult leader, Bob Avakian, told them to, and now you can't miss them at any lgbt related events.

On the other hand, I think it was wrong to splash water on their books. I really hate it when anarchists are sectarian. I'm sorry, but these two individuals are not responsible for what happened in Revolutionary Spain. There is a tendency among anarchists to be this way, and I hate it.

Another thing, I wasn't there when the incident happened, but you also can't blame anarchists as a group, or even the organizers of the event for the actions of a few sectarian individuals, especially without also hearing the other side of the story.
This is so typical of RCP. They love to create drama so that they can then impose a firestorm of "debate" making themselves the center of attention as "the oppressed". I have seen this happen again and again and again by Bay Area Communists. Maybe they should have asked themselves what they were doing at the Anarchist bookfair? RCP loves to infiltrate Anarchist organizing, then when there is political dissention, cry fowl. It's a total joke and a tactic that comes straight out of the RCP handbook of political inflitration. It makes me sick. Go back to UC Berkeley and the suburbs!
by Mario
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 10:13 AM
I have no use for either RCP followers of Bob Avakian , the son of a Alameda county judge (who has been in hiding for decades, even though he isn't wanted for anything ! ) or '' Anarchist'' censors !
Someone posted a comment in another thread about this incident that actually those Anarchists by their actions reinforced the convictions of those RCP people who showed up at the Anarchist book fair . And what if , as someone noted they got on their cell phones and a couple of dozen Maoist cadre showed up determined to re set up their table ? Would the Book fair organizers then thrown down and fought it out with the RCP ? If so the SFPD would have then showed up and busted everyone involved and maybe closed the event .
So yeah i agree with the statement denocuncing this attack .
PS But the RCP can't be too self righteous about this incident . once in the 1970's i started to attend a RU ( before it became the RCP ) event and i encountered several RU goons kicking the hell out of a couple of guys laying bloody and curled in fetal postions on the pavement. My woman friend at the time , a radicalized Vietnam Vet , a former Army nurse, waded in , pushed those goons aside , and yelled '' stand back ! I'm a nurse and am with VVAW (Vietnam Vets against the War ) . I'm going to help these men and if you touch me you have (naming several well known VVAW leaders ) to deal with ! "' One of them said '' Sister you don't understand . They're Trots ! ''. My friend glared at them . and they walked away .
RU and other Maoist groups were known for that gangsterish behavior for several years. It's true that it ceased in the 80's but i have never heard or read any apologies from any RCP ers about that phase in their history . Certainly not in Avakian 's '' from Ike to mao ''
by a-feminist
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 10:21 AM
"They love to create drama"

and drama is as drama does. maybe not reacting to them would have gone a bit further than proving their point.

speaking of which, one of my beefs with some in our community is how their otherwise valid passion for justice turns into a pointed lack of self-reflection, even to the point of establishing our detractors on the left as correct in their assertions, all dominant evidence to the contrary. it's hard to out-argue an accusation of "infantile disorder" (Lenin) when people behave this way, which to most casual observers, looks to be an accurate assessment. it makes the work of those of us who are anarchists who *do organize* (repeat: DO ORGANIZE) that much harder. i've managed to co-exist with the RCP, ISO and so on and so forth for a good long time now, and quite frankly, they're typically not the aggressors in these sectarian spats (although I will admit that showing up at the bookfair is sort of over the top, it being a public event notwithstanding). it really is possible to live and let live with one eye open, people.

if we were in the throes of a full-on revolution, things may be quite different. but we're not, and if anything, most sectarian groupings (anarchists included) would most likely be very small fleas on a very large dog in that situation. as such, a little more humility and a lot less hubris from all sides could go a long way towards ensuring the goal here.
by tio_malo
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 10:28 AM
"denounce" this, denounce that,
"struggle" blah blah blah,
our valiant call to build a' true' "vanguard party" for the "masses".....

A perfect drama to trumpet, something to clamor and posture over for the sake of getting attention, any attention... the ever grinding mill of self aggrandizement for the parasitic, eternally irrelevant vanguardists.


Yeah. Been bumping into these "vanguard party" jokers for over 20 years now ... the bs front groups, the cultishness, the authoritarian jargon-plagued party lines, the opportunistic sycophancy (and their EXPLICIT strategy!) of them constantly jumping onto any other movements efforts and momentae ...
Between the The Socialist Workers Party, the CPUSA, "Bolshevik Tendency", the Spartacists, and RCP'ers... yada yada yada...
Eat a Bug, ya jackasses. Take a Hike, m***f**kers!

GAW!! Even so, I'm with Steve Ongerth [above] for the most part here:

"Would it not been a more productive use of everyone's time and energy to invite these "communists" to a debate?
Would that not have better advanced the cause of anarchism?
And BTW, is this whole fight really the best use of everyone's time?"

If by 'a debate', you mean savage intellectual skewering and ridicule then yeah I'm with ya 100%
by Frisk
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 10:59 AM
Was this small solidarity march enough? No. Was it something? Yes. Was it infinitely better than the RCP tailing marches and handing out newspapers? Fuck yes. Stalking people with Bob Avakian porn does fuck all. And let's not forget that the RCP is struggling not for a world without repression, but repression under another name. By conservative estimates Mao was responsible for the deaths of millions of peasants. Why should they be tolerated anymore than any other followers of a dead genocidal dictator? Would you let someone talking up Milosevich or Franco set up at YOUR event?

And with regards to the police station attack:

http://anarchistnews.org/?q=node/5966
by Bay Area National Anarchist
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 11:17 AM
I agree that the RCP has no place at an anarchist book fair however these actions took it too far. As another commenter said "if you want to attack someone you disagree with, how about the Bay Area National Anarchists?" Among this and other threats we received if we attended the book fair, we condemn infighting amongst anti-system activists. I don't think I have to remind you that the real enemy is the class enemy not different ideologists in the radical scene. We all lose in a climate of intimidation, fear, and disrespect for having unorthodox views.

Signed,
Bay Area National Anarchists

ps- we we're there
by TV
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 12:01 PM
Hey, aren't you those white supremacist anarchists that I have heard about? If anybody is going to pour anything on someone they should be pouring piss on you. Down with racism!!!

Fuck you BAY AREA NATIONAL ANARCHISTS!!!

I encourage everyone to research this group further and confront them if they are seen at a rally.

There should be no fighting between legitimate Anarchists and leftists. Discussion and dialogue are the way to go, except when it comes to racists like the BANA schmucks.
by Revolution Club
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 12:17 PM
Two activists from Revolution Books and the Bay Area Revolution Club showed up at the anarchist book fair today eager to get to know some of the revolutionary-minded and anarchist youth that we have been fighting alongside of recently in protests against the Israeli massacre in Gaza and the struggle for justice for Oscar Grant. Although we were hoping to get into some lofty discussions/debates about the future classless society, free of oppression and exploitation, that we all want to see and the important question of how we are going to get there, our main purpose in coming to the book fair this year was to get the word out about the “People’s Tribunal: The Murder of Oscar Grant & the Epidemic of Police Brutality” happening March 22 in Oakland. We also wanted to mix it up with people about a special issue of Revolution newspaper out right now: “A Declaration: For Women’s Liberation and the Emancipation of All of Humanity.” And we wanted to extend our solidarity to the RNC8 and let people know about the excellent new series in Revolution newspaper about their case: http://revcom.us/a/157/RNC_pt1-en.html
by anarchist
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 12:29 PM
the rcp is full of a bunch of future bureaucrats and politicians who posture themselves in ways to play victim, all of the time.

they will not be clear about their statist intentions, and when asked about the shutting down of workers strikes in nepal one of these rat bastards simply shrugged.

fuck the rcp
Whoever wrote this article surely forgot to mention any relevant information. It's really hard to imagine that well-meaning respectful activists would be treated so brutally at the Anarchist Book Fair. I don't see any information about what exactly happened, just a bunch of big words about how great they are.

I have had many conversations with communists in America who are promoting a violent revolution. They were all without exceptions (may be one exception) extremely hard-headed and full of hostility and hate. I am from Russia where more than half of my family was either directly executes or otherwise destroyed by communists. If you go to Russia right now to promote communism you will probably get beat up. It's like promoting fascism in Germany - you will not find much support. I tried to share my opinion about communism as someone who was raised in that oppression and knows first hand what communism is like in real life as opposed to in books and imagination. The communists that I talked to would argue blindly that they know better what life is like in Russia than I do, even though they don't know a word of Russian and have never been to Russia. They were selling revolutionary newspapers at protests, and I have tried talking to many of them. The result was the same every time.

Whoever wrote this article is obviously hiding the real reasons why they got kicked out and trying to make themselves look like noble victims.
by won't
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 3:24 PM
wash away the blood of millions of insurgent workers murdered by Mao. A telegram from revolutionaries in 1968, sent to Mao:

what maoism is. a telegram from insurgents in '68:

POLITBURO OF THE CHINESE COMMUNIST PARTY GATE OF CELESTIAL PEACE BEIJING
SHAKE IN YOUR SHOES BUREAUCRATS STOP THE INTERNATIONAL POWER OF THE WORKERS COUNCILS WILL SOON WIPE YOU OUT STOP HUMANITY WON’T BE HAPPY TILL THE LAST BUREAUCRAT IS HUNG WITH THE GUTS OF THE LAST CAPITALIST STOP LONG LIVE FACTORY OCCUPATIONS STOP LONG LIVE THE GREAT CHINESE PROLETARIAN REVOLUTION OF 1927 BETRAYED BY THE STALINIST BUREAUCRATS STOP LONG LIVE THE PROLETARIANS OF CANTON AND ELSEWHERE WHO HAVE TAKEN UP ARMS AGAINST THE SO-CALLED PEOPLE’S ARMY STOP LONG LIVE THE CHINESE WORKERS AND STUDENTS WHO HAVE ATTACKED THE SO-CALLED CULTURAL REVOLUTION AND THE MAOIST BUREAUCRATIC ORDER STOP LONG LIVE REVOLUTIONARY MARXISM STOP DOWN WITH THE STATE STOP OCCUPATION COMMITTEE OF THE PEOPLE’S FREE SORBONNE
by yay
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 3:37 PM
good job RCP you officially got the support of the BANA!

Facists and Communists together at last
by @
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 3:45 PM
Nobody will adress your points about Oscar grant because it has nothing to do with this incident. Its irrelevant. And what the fuck do yu know about what anarchists are doing about the issue? Now, argue about the fucking issue instead of bringing false claims about Oscar Grant into this.
Look, lets put this into perspective. People show up to an event, wanting to talk about getting to a different kind of world, a world without oppression and exploitation. In bringing this out and striving to engage people about how we can get there someone got pissed off and destroyed all their shit. Who the fuck do they think they are and what side are they on? If ANYONE tries to defend this attack what you are defending is censorship, destruction of political propaganda, and the violent removal of people for voicing different ideas than you. WHAT KIND OF SOCIETY WOULD THAT BE IF THAT WAS IN COMMAND? This can be called nothing other than reactionary, backward, and doing the work of THE ENEMY for them.

Take a good look at what you are advocating if you think that this attack was a good thing. This is exactly the kind of petty, infantile, backward shit that helps the enemy.

~RP
by @
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 4:23 PM
It was an anarchist event. Red-fascists had no business being there. End of story. If someone invades your home you have a right to evict them, violently if necessary. Its got nothing to do with free speech or anything like that.
by autonomist
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 4:51 PM
How does attacking the RCP help the enemy? The RCP is an anti-anarchist organization (as seen both in the history of Maoism and there contemporary literature/rhetoric), and they have no business attending an anarchist event. period.
by a
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 5:03 PM
its called the ANARCHIST bookfair, not the ANARCHIST AND WHOEVER WANTS TO COME ALONG AND DISTRIBUTE ANTI-ANARCHIST PERSPECTIVES LIKE LIBERALS, FASCISTS AND QUEERPHOBIC MAOISTS bookfair.

grow up and please stop lying about how you wanted to learn more about anarchism. you could have done that without bringing your newspapers, or arguing with the organizers.

the left's mission is to control revolt, so every time there is a revolution, its first task is to stop it from going "too far". people like these are the ones who set themselves up as the new bosses, and line anarchists up against the wall. so this really is not different from, say, national "anarchists" wanting to table at something like this or even straight up nazis or whatever. these people are not on our side, theyre not anarchists, their goal is to make converts and sabotage our organizing.

maoists are not anarchists and neither is anyone who signed this dumb ass petition. stop whining.
by a
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 5:07 PM
its called free association. not some liberal free speech tolerance crap which appeals to - surprise! - the objectivity embodied by the state, or in this case, the party, or more specifically chairman bob.

oh yea, and someone pointed out that they denied/endorsed the tiananmen square massacre, right? yeah, real friends of the people, alright.
by miles
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 5:28 PM
So the National Anarchists were at the Bookfair? Certainly only in an individual and personal capacity rather than as representatives of their gang, otherwise there surely would have been even worse trouble than when the supporters of Maoist butchery tried to set their bullshit up in the courtyard.

I just got back from the BASTARD Anarchist Conference and there was one of those National Anarchists there too, obviously in a personal capacity. He handed out one flyer before he made a bee-line for the exit. When someone saw that it was a National Anarchist flyer, he called after the crypto-fascist to come back and talk to us, but since bullies only show off when they know they won't be challenged, he just kept walking. Chicken shit.

By the way, fuck all you liberal whiners about free speech and censorship and violence. There was no violence during the expulsion of the Maoists, unless you count raised voices as violence. Tempers flared, and maybe some feelings got hurt, and some property got messed up. What did the RCP expect? Flowers and wine? Fuck that bullshit. Maoists celebrate Lenin and Stalin, and we all should know what those butchers did to anarchists and non-party aligned self-organized revolutionary workers and peasants. It's called homicide. Learn some history and confront Maoists with your new-found knowledge and then you can opt for "debate" and "discussion." Those assholes are only interested in anarchists as potential recruits. And only then in youth, as evidenced by their calling attention to the "two older men"--which translates as not recruitable.
by jamilah
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 5:51 PM
Debate with words not water! If I want to fight for a better world, am I going to align myself with people who have the courage to speak the truth in the face of criticism and sectarian attacks or with those whose political clarity is the the bottom of a bucket of water?
by miles
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 5:57 PM
In order to be sectarian, you have to be in some general agreement on goals, strategies and tactics. There is no common ground between Leninists, Stalinists, Maoists and anarchists. They know they are our enemies, why don't you recognize it? They denounce anarchists when we do little, they denounce anarchists when we do plenty and they denounce anarchists when we express our knowledge of the history of the interactions between our enemies and us. They are not our allies. They know this and act on it every day. It's a pity anarchists don't act the same. These fuckers count on us not knowing our own history, the better to recruit us. Acting with enmity toward our enemies is definitely not sectarian. It's called self-preservation.
by a
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 6:00 PM
You people who would sign onto this statement are an embarassment.

The RCP is the enemy and always will be. If given the chance to seize power, they'd put you all in prison and you know it. Sorry, too many deaths of anarchists on the Maoist/Leninist watch, too fucking many.

And maybe you are all intensive to the deaths of our comrades throughout history (And today, just look at the suppression of anarchists in Nepal and China), but I'm not, I CARE, which is why I support attacking, expelling, and doing whatever possible to stop these idiots from having a presence anywhere.

Hate to break out the (fake) communist rhetoric, but if you're not for attacking these people you're counter-revolutionary.
by mk
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 6:08 PM
This is war, you anarcho-liberals. It's not a game, it's not a bike punk marathon, it's not a weekend holiday. The RCP are enemies in many more ways than one. They are as much our enemies as the Republicans you love to hate on.

I GUARANTEE the people on the list denouncing the attack on the RCP would ALSO denounce attacking the Green party and even the Democratic Party. I fucking GUARANTEE it. I also guarantee that you wouldn't denounce expelling republicans or fascists from the bookfair. (Although you can never be too sure, as was seen at the last NCOR in DC when people had a problem with expelling nazis, NAZIS!)

Y'all are a hypocritical disgrace.
by @-commie
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 6:16 PM
-...but, but...you said you were for the emancipation of the workingclass!?! Let us debate the merits of maoism vs. anarchism....

-Make your last wish, anarchist!

(Sorry for the dubbleposts. You can erase the other two. This was my point.
by straw men
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 6:21 PM
infinitely better than handing out newspapers, sure, but that's a straw man because that's not all they've done. you could say it was infinitely better than crapping in a pot on the sidewalk, but so what?

it was a poor demo in SF. I don't know anyone, anarchist or otherwise, who considers it a success. a few speakers and then pointless cat and mouse running around with cops. no legitimate targets hit. no bart shutdown. nothing. worse than that, it was the only one. no further efforts were made. anarchists threw in the towel on organizing around the issue

was it infinitely better than the RCP demo and march on feb 6 that had a dozen family members of victims of police murder speak? no, it was infinitely worse

without any level of effectiveness or community outreach, the only way the feb 6 action could be considered infinitely better is because it was your team that initiated it. my team, on the other hand, is everyone fighting for justice for oscar grant and against police violence in our communities -- they don't have to look like me or think exactly like me if they share that goal. I only wish there were more anarchists on that bigger team, or hell that even any anarchist team was still in the game at all at this point, and sadly there's not one

historic opportunities to build bridges between anarchists and people of color in oakland are being squandered. this fight for justice could use some anarchist smarts and some anarchist spunk, but instead we find ourselves squabbling over silly territorial pissings, limited energy wasted, while justice remains out of reach
by anarcho
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 6:26 PM
Oh shut up about Oscar Grant. You dont know shit about what anarchists are doing in this or other issues.
by Bay Area National Anarchist
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 6:28 PM
miles,

Actually sympathizers of ours that organized both events asked us to attend but keep a low profile. A BANA comrade always wanted to meet an editor of Anarchy: Journal of Desire Armed, but as you saw, using threats of violence against people that think differently is always an ineffective way to build solidarity. Soon we will have video of our visits on youtube including interviews we conducted with anarchists at both events about their thoughts on tribalism.

Comradely,
BANA
by anarchist
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 6:34 PM
i hope anyone who gave them an interview was duped into it.

they are not a legitimate anarchist presence by nay means.

they will not show their faces at anarchist events, at least not proclaim it loudly in any way.
by hello
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 6:41 PM
it was the modesto folks that brought oscar grant into this in the first place

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2009/03/14/18577254.php

therefore to discuss it, especially in lieu of the local RCP is relevant

so, there's still no answer as to why anarchists don't care about justice for a black man in oakland any more

more anarchists showed up for a solidarity march against police violence in greece than have ever showed up for oscar grant, and there's only been one anarchist initiated action and zero outreach to family members or communities in oakland
by @
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 6:47 PM
They are obviously lying to provoke and confuse us. This in itself shows that the so-called "national anarchists" are enemies of the anarchist movement. they are fascists and should be treated that way.
by anarcho
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 6:51 PM
and once again; you dont know shit about anarchist practice so shut the fuck up.
kind of a black eye on anarchy weekend, doncha think?

and who exactly invited these racists to attend any anarchist event? inquiring minds want to know. fess up and defend the decision
by mmkay?
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 7:00 PM
you can toss ad hominems left and right

and you can avoid the questions all you want, but the fact remains that anarchists have not really pulled together in a strong way to fight for justice for oscar grant. since january, anarchists in the struggle have been AWOL

even Crudo himself said as much when he spoke at the bookfair yesterday
by hi
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 7:17 PM
sorry, the anarchist action in sf was jan 12 not feb 6 as I said in my last comment. feb 6 was the rev books action

as for the police station attack, forgot to mention that above, you really count that as some shining moment of anarchist action for justice? a couple of broken windows on a meter maid office?? funny, when I read your pride in that attack I had something more like this in mind http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Frfu2xXP91g

but you meant this http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2009/01/08/18560079.php which I find surprising when you try to use that to build the case that anarchists have put up the good fight for oscar grant
by anarcho
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 7:36 PM
Maybe anarchists have a diffrent approach and definition of what "justice for oscar grant" means than you? You dont know shit about the work and outreach we do. You are just trying to change the subject away from the fact that maoists are our enemies.
by TV
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 7:40 PM
As an Anarchist I am proud to say that I went to the very first march for Oscar Grant and helped initiate the riot. The RCP was there as usual. I am friends with some of their members although I don't agree with their politics 100% I value their role our movement. Maybe after capitalism and imperialism are smashed we can bicker and argue amongst ourselves but not until then!

I will not be attending this event in the future. Attacking people at a book fair is completely unacceptable. I really think those brainless thugs who destroyed the RCP's literature should be banished from our community. They're no better than the Nazi Bay Area National Anarchists cunts.

IT'S THIS TYPE OF BEHAVIOR THAT TELLS ME WE WILL NEVER HAVE A REVOLUTION. Stupid bastards....
by @
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 7:46 PM
Then its already too late and you have allready been shot a long time ago. We have to shoot first for there to even be a revolution with a chance of actually getting rid of capitalism and imperialism. Learn from history, goddamnit. Dont be so fucking naive.
by me
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 8:15 PM

again, MAC brought up Oscar Grant as part of this discussion: http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2009/03/14/18577254.php

as for your different idea of the definition of justice for oscar grant, please inform us all what that means, because I know what it doesn't mean and it clearly doesn't mean organizing with families of victims of police murder, organizing with communities of color in oakland, organizing with non-anarchist groups, nor holding any sort of anarchist actions since jan 12. the solidarity with greece action for a police murder 10,000 miles away was far larger than anything for oscar grant initiated by local anarchists

so, pray tell, what is your definition of justice for oscar grant?
by ignores the fact...
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 9:29 PM
All of this ignores the fact that this kind of thing has happened there before.

Anarchist sectarianism rivals that of the Sparts, who are at least honest about it.
by anarcho
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 9:46 PM
For the last time: you know nothing about anarchist ability to reach out outside of the anarchist milleu in SF or anywhere else. You are just baiting to distract us from the fact that maoists are our enemy.

fact guy: you would have to have something in common to be secterian. We do not.
by the "for the last time" bit, either.
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 10:25 PM
Gee, you do an awful lot of speaking for other anarchists with that little critique of the sectarian criticism, while offering no evidence that you've been "delegated" to do so. Daresay your "we" is of the royal variety.

Some anarchists here seem to approve of the thuggish expulsion of the RCP from the City and County of San Francisco Fairgrounds, which I'm sure Bound Together Bookstore et al rented fair and square. Others, with a finer grasp of the implications, are appropriately appalled. As usual, there is little to no consensus on the issue among anarchos, which might offer some insights into everything from how gang-like activity is consistently tolerated at the bookfair, to why all y'all have never had a large-scale revolution to call your own, preferring to this day to wallow in your glorious-victimhood status, left over from 1930s Spain.

When you grow up, the commies will still be around, and you can join one of our many fine "sects," if you find one you can agree with, or else go start your own. Or, you can go sell stocks, like celebrated American anarchist Jerry Rubin did-- the market will probably still be around, too. Or else, you can just keep going to that bookfair for the rest of your life, and just keep telling yourself and your friends that you're accomplishing something by doing so, and by policing attendants for ideological acceptability.

Meanwhile, like the rest of us, speak for yourself.
by miles
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 10:37 PM
You're so stupid you think that Jerry Rubin was an anarchist at some point in his political career? When did he ever declare his allegiance to anarchism? Was it when he ran for mayor of Berkeley? When he was in the Yippies and he wrote that all Yippies were Maoists? Get your facts straight before you condemn the antics of those you disagree with.

As for you shithead cowardly "low profile" National Anarchists, well you were smart to keep a low profile and not reveal your organizational affiliation, or we would have physically kicked your asses out of the Bookfair. The enmity we feel toward your type of infiltrators is as real and historically based as our enmity toward Maoists and other Stalinists. It's not about a difference of opinion. It's about history. Fess up if you dare: Who were these alleged friends of yours who helped organize both the Bookfair and the BASTARD conference? No? That's because you're all a bunch of liars and kooks who still have imaginary playmates.
by hmm.
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 10:46 PM
By their works ye shall know them... not by their disclaimers.
by anarcho
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 11:09 PM
Anarchists genereally understands that stalinist-maoists are enemies of what we want to accomplish. Some trolls on the internet say they dont, but they are prolly just maoists pretending.

Oh yeah, you maoists have accomplished sooo much. You have such a sucessful history! Or maybe you are the reason why the workingclass of the world reject communism today. Get a clue.

Anarchists were part of every big uprising and revolution that ever was. And we were allways at the forefront, always among the most advanced elements of said revolution. The stalinists have always been parasites, riding on the backs of the much more advanced masses to achieve their goal - in opposition to what the masses really want. You are killers of revolutions and revolutionaries. You are the red fascist counter revolution. That is your "proud" traditon.

The defeat of the anarchists is the defeat of the communist movement: its nothing to be happy about at all.

Oh, and anarchist groups have always been here. And we always will as long as people desire communism because the anarchists are among the most advanced tendencies to help us get there.
by does not equal its universality.
Sunday Mar 15th, 2009 11:54 PM
The real question seems to be whether anarchists can get along with others who don't share their views or not. Or are you going to achieve your version of "the" revolution, when anarchism becomes a universal doctrine? Could that explain all the waiting around, and being inhospitable?
then tell us. I've been asking over and over.

I'm trying to get to the bottom of why some anarchists feel like they have done so much more for justice for oscar grant than the rev book club. MAC implied as much in their original post on the rah-rah water tossing post

your refusal to address it speaks volumes. I'll have to assume your "definition" of justice is a secret, and probably for good reason, as you have nothing real to say on the subject
by anarcho
Monday Mar 16th, 2009 12:21 AM
We get along with others really easily. But we do not get along with our enemies -- for obvious reasons.
by Yes, who can? do what?
Monday Mar 16th, 2009 12:27 AM
That's an awfully familiar phrase... say. Didn't the President of the United States swipe that from the Farm Workers Union recently?

And of course, the fact remains that former-elected-official-of-the-state Harry Britt was a featured speaker at the "anarchist" bookfair a few years back... sans forcible eviction. Why, he's a Democrat too, isn't he?

Curiouser and curiouser...
by anarcho
Monday Mar 16th, 2009 12:27 AM
We have never waited around for revolution. Thats what stalinists do. They wait around and then becomes parasites on the backs of the real revolutionaries. This incident is another proof of the parasite tendencies of leninism.
leaving aside that you are pretty much all bluster and no substance as you continue to skirt what exactly that definition of justice is you mentioned, you recent comment sparks other questions

so, who exactly are these non-anarchists that you get along with so famously? certainly not nazis or the commies. not the republicans, democrats, or greens as they are statists. not capitalists or socialists. not christians or muslims as they believe in god. which makes them all enemies, right?

so who exactly is left besides apolitical people and anarchists? hipsters? seriously, name a non-anarchist group with a shared ideology that you don't consider an enemy

me thinks you just talk out of your butt and can't ever back up anything you say, just dish out insults when cornered in your own BS
by SHIT
Monday Mar 16th, 2009 1:24 AM
I'M SO GLAD ONE ANARCHIST AND ONE SOCIALIST HAVE TAKEN THE BURDEN OF REPRESENTING EVERYONE ELSE IN THIS CONVERSATION.

This is fucking stupid. Go fight IRL.
by anarcho
Monday Mar 16th, 2009 1:25 AM
Anarchists dont generally view people through their mediating, political organisations. We get along well with people we share common material intrests with. We dont get along with politicans, careerists, bueracrats and managers of revolt of any kind. Or wannabes of these kinds. Maoists, stalinists, statist and so on are in these categories that we dont get along with. Simple as that.
by well
Monday Mar 16th, 2009 1:35 AM
so you get along fine with people as long as they don't bring their ideologies to the table, sure, and I guess you're including politicians. does that include republicans or just greens or dems? a picnic with just about anyone has the potential to be fun perhaps

the real matter at hand is organizing. what types of non-anarchist groups do you organize with? and bigger than that, do you believe that in order to reach a revolutionary moment that organizing with non-anarchists will be required or optional?
by Well, uh, actually
Monday Mar 16th, 2009 1:36 AM
y'all got along just fine with politician Harry Britt at the bookfair a few years ago.

Just because you're ignoring your own hypocrisy, doesn't mean anyone else is.

...and you're still using that royal "we."
by me
Monday Mar 16th, 2009 1:38 AM
the anarkos that are rallying to the defense of this "action" are almost as stupid as the RCP. Any working person reading would sure to think you're nuts. u guys are embarrassing.
by anarcho
Monday Mar 16th, 2009 2:49 AM
See the poster above...

I will not hijack this thread anymore.
by deanosor
( deanosor [at] mailup.net ) Monday Mar 16th, 2009 8:03 AM
...the person who called the "National anarchists" "cunts". Call these vermin low-lifes "cunts" is sexist and wrong. Using 'cunt' as as a negative term, downgrades women. I'm sure you didn't mean to, but please think before you write.
by One who was around and asked a few questions
Monday Mar 16th, 2009 9:39 AM
Hey,

All you guys who signed this...I'm glad I have your names so I know what kind of creep I'm dealing with in the future. How many of you checked with the fair organizers for their side of this story before signing this petition? The fair organizers did not condone nor involve themselves in destroying any material from RCP -- however RCP's story is nevertheless their story and in places is untrue and misrepresents events. They also, of course, omitted their complete ability to cooperate with requests from fair organizers. Any anarchist organization would have been thrown out if they had acted the way the RCP acted. (This is absolutely true and in many past similar situations anarchists have been evicted for similar reasons.) In short, the RCP set up where they were not allowed to and were requested repeatedly not to set up there. They did not comply with repeated requests to remove their things and instead childishly wanted to "discuss" various things, instead of moving out of an area reserved for another purpose. Furthermore, non-anarchist groups are often asked to move away from the inside of the fair. A similar incident occurred with another socialist group the next day. The fair organizers explained their policy to the group and these people understood and were completely cooperative. The difference could not have been clearer. The people in this other group were actually able not only to "discuss" but to "hear" what was being said to them. The RCP are, frankly, little better than fascists (and have many similar characteristics).

The RCP are incapable of presenting an honest evaluation of any situation that involves them. They already have posession of the "truth" as they understand it. What good are actual facts to them? And you who signed are suckers. Also, many BT members are queers -- how to you think RCP sits with them?
by Dave from Bound Together
Monday Mar 16th, 2009 9:51 AM
Hey Steve,

Why don't you ever collect any important information or ask anyone involved for their story (or listen) before offering your high and mighty opinion? You are one of the reasons I resigned from the IWW. BT did not condone nor involve themselves with destroying any RCP stuff. But I'm sure not shedding tears over that, nor over your ignorant judgments.
by Jack
Monday Mar 16th, 2009 1:08 PM
They would kill us if they got the chance like their heros in the past. All of the authoritarian left need to stay the fuck away from anarchist turf, or they'l be on the receiving end of a molly.
by Laura Z.
Monday Mar 16th, 2009 2:44 PM
I am one of the people who signed the petition. It was brought to my attention that many people were upset about this. The reason that I signed it at the time was that I, and many other people around me at our table and others, were unaware that the RCP was even there until they brought around the petition. To me, this meant that a decision had been made to use destruction of property without a large part of the community even knowing there was a problem. I suppose I don't understand well enough the structure of the Anarchist Book Fair, maybe just having the organizers take care of things is usually the way it goes, but I would have liked to have known what was going on so I could have gone outside as well and shown my support for their going away. I didn't want them there, but I also didn't want a small group of people to dump water on their shit when it seems that the organizers did not condone it and lots of folks didn't even know they'd shown up.

So people who say that the RCP likes to cause drama: you're absolutely right, they do. And they got it.

I didn't sign any document of allegiance to them when I signed it, I just didn't like the way that things played out. I'm not "applauding" the other people who also signed, as each of us signed for our own reasons, and I may not agree with those reasons. If anyone is uncomfortable building an anti-authoritarian movement with me because of it, then I understand, but I would hope that people would be better than that. I don't support the RCP by any stretch, trust me, I just also don't support that isolated incident of pouring water on their stuff.

-Laura

P.S. I will not be responding to any personal attacks or any of that shit on this comment thread. Anyone wishing to make me feel fear should know that that's a tactic of the reactionaries.
by j.
Monday Mar 16th, 2009 2:49 PM
It's a good thing that RCP got kicked out of the anarchist book fair. The people who signed a petition against this expulsion have no sense of history and shit for politics. Vanguard parties are opportunistic - they support workers' and peasants' struggles at first and then dominate and manage them when workers' demands become 'unrealistic' (when workers stop following the revolutionary vanguard politicians). This has happened when Bolshevik (leninist) disarmed and took control over workers factory committees, when Trotsky himself suppressed the proletarian uprising in Krondsadt and when Maoist killed, imprisoned and 're-educated' peasants, workers and all real revolutionaries (including anarchists).

That leaders of the 'revolution' become new leaders of the 'revolutionary' state should be obvious to all anarchists. Then why should we support and provide a platform to people who want to be the vanguard party? Because they do good organizing? Good organizing is valuable and should be supported but only to a degree that it does something good. But when it comes to ideas and politics (which is what RCP organizing brings along) we should reject their authoritarian shit unconditionally. Kicking them out of our anarchist meetings for exchange ideas (like the bookfair) is not a judgment of the organizing work they do but it is a perfect response to their offensive politics. Soaking their literature with water is not nice (and too emotional I think), but they were warned already and no one was hurt. Please don't defend them, because if their turn comes, maoists won't defend you - they'll turn you in to be cured of your 'infantile disorder' by a mental hygiene specialist.

Also, Chairmain Bob Avarkian is a cult figure. I don't think I need to argue to prove this.

Finally, I was at the Oscar Grant protest/riot. RCP did organize some of it, but most of the people there did not care about their newspaper. The most militant groups were black working class residents of Oakland for whom leftist politics were not a significant factor. So that night, both anarchists and RCP were a sideshow, but at least the anarchists had the decent sense to help the rioters with their experience in making barricades, by attacking the police Oakland PD station (I did this with my own hands, I hope the cops don't track my IP) and evading the cops.

RCP contributions were promotion before the protest/riot, which I assume was productive and very counter-productive efforts to hock their paper during the riot along with complaining that anarchists ruined their carefully planned protests with their violence. Their complaining illustrates everything that is shitty and offensive about their politics - while the locals had the right idea to riot, the Maoists would prefer to lead them to "revolutionary" passivity and ritualized protest/newspaper salesmanship in the ranks of RCP membership. Like all managers of the working class RCP really 'knows what's best' in it's area of expertise - revolution.

In conclusion, I'm glad RCP was kicked out.

P.S.
Dear BANA Tribalists,
You're too stupid to know you're racist.
by Anton Black
( anton [at] vvawai.org ) Monday Mar 16th, 2009 4:42 PM
Put me down as signing the statement denouncing the attack on Revolution Books. I just read through these comments and I noticed a lot on who did or didn't do what kind of activism in relation to the struggle over the police murder of Oscar Grant, but not much on the murder itself and the seriousness of it and what this struggle represents.

The other thing the Revolution Books people were taking out also deserves mention-- and attention, regardless of one's political affiliation-- that is the "A Declaration: For Women's Liberation and the Emancipation of all Humanity" issue of 'Revolution'. That was one of the things being trashed a few days after International Women's Day.
by hold on there
Monday Mar 16th, 2009 5:02 PM
"anarchist organization around the issue [execution of Oscar Grant] has been virtually non-existant. in fact, I'm not sure if there's been any march/rally/whatever that's been organized as an anarchist event. it's actually been more of anarchists glomming onto events organized by others, so the point about co-opting things is a bit of the pot calling the kettle black here"

Excuse me?!
Anarchists have been consistently out there from the very beginning of the protests against the murder of Oscar Grant, and some of the only people (besides the NLG and Critical Resistance, both of which include anarchist activists ) doing consistent work on behalf of the arrestees, even before the RCP started irresponsibly sending out their "Revolution Club" youth to get arrested. Where were you? Obviously you have not been involved with anything to assert we have not been there (though not every anarchist may look like what you assume--that is, we are not all white kids in black hoodies). And of course we would not organize something around the murder of Oscar Grant as an explicitly anarchist event, because we are not in this to glorify ourselves or use a tragedy as a recruiting ploy. That kind of behavior is for pseudo-radical authoritarian cults like the RCP.
It is really interesting that a number of these posts on the attack on Revolution Books at the Anarchist Book Fair contain ad hominem attacks, anti-Communist lies, physical violence and threats against supporters of the RCP and Revolution Books. It is outrageous that this sort of attack happened, and it does not serve the interests of the people, but those of the imperialist rulers. It is also heartening to hear that there were a number of people on these threads who also denounced these attacks as wrong and unprincipled. In fact, some of these ad hominem attacks are quite similar in tone and character to the attacks that appeared all over SF Gate in the wake of the rebellion of the youth of Oakland after the authorities tried to cover up and gloss over the outrageous police execution of Oscar Grant.At that time too, there were vicious,racist comments against the youth and there were also threats against Revolution Books and the RCP. Who does this all benefit? What was wrong with people from Revolution Books going out to the Anarchist Book Fair to help build for the People's Tribunal? Does this mean that people can't struggle things out in the realm of ideas? What about being serious about making revolution and dedicating your life towards that end? I'm a volunteer at Revolution Books and I am willing to dedicate my life to helping to bringing about a different future for millions and millions of people around the world as well as here.It's not about revenge, it's not about the ends justify the means, but what kind of world we all want to live in.
by mokey
Monday Mar 16th, 2009 11:46 PM
Haha y'all got got! It's about time it got explicit. Historically, you've slaughtered us*, thrown us in the gulags, and sold us the fuck out. Right now, you're latching on to anything you can - forming front groups, co-opting anarchist events, and generally showing that all you want to do is sell papers and recruit zombies by surreptitiously fracturing and taking control over community groups.

So fuck you. You've screwed me over personally on more than one occasion. You start fights and leave others to clean up your mess. You show up to our events with a PA, and we were too dumbfounded to do anything. Not anymore. We'll ruin your shitty books, steal your gear, out you publicly (you do love duplicity, don't you?), and make you nervous wherever you go. Because we're everywhere, and we're sick of your shit. This process has started organically all over the place, but like I said, it's about time it got explicit.

Sure, Hitler had a stache, but Stalin's was bigger. A red fascist is still a fascist, and a state in waiting is no idle threat.

*"us" in that specific context = queers, landless peoples, anarchists, workers, ethinically "problematic" peoples, and dissenters of any stripe
by mokey
Monday Mar 16th, 2009 11:57 PM
rcp-burn.jpg
rcp-burn.jpg

I'm not talking about SF - I'm thinking bigger. The RCP is already unwelcome here in Columbus, OH, and they got the message. Keep trusting the RCP and you might not even notice the knife in your back.
by (a)
Tuesday Mar 17th, 2009 12:12 PM
Maybe this will make more sense to y'all:

A bunch of Anti-Authoritarians kicked some Authoritarians out of an Anti-Authoritarian bookfair. Since the Authoritarians refused to leave, some more Anti-Authoritarians dumped some water onto the Authoritarian Propaganda table, which wrinkled some Authoritarian newspapers and books.

The Authoritarians later tried to single out an Anti-Authoritarian, but others had his back, and prevented this. The Authoritarians were forced to leave the bookfair, which they were never welcome at in the first place.

The sole goals of the RCP consist of recruiting new members to take orders, and installing Bob Avakian as a dictator. Neither of these goals are in any way, shape, or form, confluent with those of Anarchists. This is not an argument on how to get to a shared goal, it is an Anti-Authoritarian response to blatant Authoritarian aggression.

The only thing the RCP seeks in Oakland is membership; the only reason they talk about Justice for Oscar Grant so much is that they've taken advantage of the outrage of so many youth of color through that struggle recently. They want to build on that because they don't know what else to do. They do not seek justice, they are not effected by police violence, and all they're interested in is your money & body.

The enemy of the enemy is still the fucking enemy.
The RCP will never be welcome in Anarchist cirlces. We don't want your newspaper, your front groups, your organization, or your dictator. We don't need them. Go home. Learn to think for yourself, maybe. Just get the fuck out of Oakland, and stay the fuck out of our way. Repost 03
by no holds barred
Friday Mar 20th, 2009 3:08 PM
first, I didn't say there has been zero anarchist involvement. secondly, I was corrected by another commenter that anarchists had organized an event on jan 12 in SF, of which I had forgotten. the RCP doesn't organize "communist" events any more than anarchists organize "anarchist" events (in general I say this, as the topic here is an anarchist book fair that excluded communists, right or wrong). events organized by the RCP are open to the public as that one jan 12 demo in SF was. so, the issue raised in my comments here, in response to one made by MAC in another book fair post, was not that anarchists had had no involvement but that their organizing around the issue was minimal at best and pretty much non-existent since january, other than arrestee support which is relatively self-interested because many of those arrested were anarchists and it does little to address the larger issue at hand which is the police murder of oscar grant and other people of color in oakland.

personally I was hoping for a bigger response to the oscar grant murder from local anarchists, especially after all of the excitement here over the greek rebellion started by a police murder there. I was hoping some new bridges could be built with victims of police violence in oakland and I've seen hardly any reaching out to oakland communities of color, other than on an individual basis here and there. as for the historical timeline of events, I'm not sure where you get the idea that rev club people were "sent" in late in the game to be arrested as a number of them were arrested on jan 7, the same time almost everyone else was.

good lord, I would hope anarchists would not organize an exclusively anarchist event like the book fair around the issue of justice for oscar grant -- I would hope no group would ever do that around any ideology. hell, even the preachers are all trying to overcome their religious differences for the sake of justice. I'm talking about anarchist-initiated events that are open to the public, a chance for anarchists to shine in their organizational abilities, their abilities to reach out to communities sometimes very different from themselves. instead communities of color buy the bullshit that anarchists are scary after jan 7 and there has been little done to dispel that myth

in sum, after the huge local excitement over the greek rebellion in anarchist communities here, I really expected more from anarchists regarding oscar grant. and while I am no commie nor will I ever be (thank you very much, Mr. McCarthy), I believe that they have done a better job on the issue overall working with families of police violence and organizing events to keep the light on the issue
by billy kaye
Saturday Mar 21st, 2009 8:51 PM
so what if they destroyed a few books the 'Revolutionary" heroes that the rcp vindicates like stalin and mao are responsible for the deaths of thousands of anarchists. this is like nazis attending a jewish bookfair. this isn't just about sectarianism it's about respect
REMEMBER THE KRONSTADT
by osqar
Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 3:03 PM
I wish I didn't sign that thing. Perhaps throwing water was unnecessarily aggressive, but then again, one could say the same about burning an American flag. It's the thought that counts, right?

Who is the petition FOR anyway? Boone is correct in that the word anarchist is used as a pejorative in RCP dialogue. Any respect they have for you will disappear when it becomes clear that you're not going to join the vanguard or at least give them money. All discussions are communism-centric, leaving people of other affiliations with the burden of proof that their ideas are worthwhile.

Oh, and ahem's two cents- "no gods, no masters, sure, but if christians and commies are fighting for long-overdue justice in oakland, they will be my allies. too bad so many anarchists feel that any revolution action has to be exactly on their terms or they'll just take their marbles and go home"

That's almost completely nonsensical for two main reasons. One is that anachists and communists have marched side by side for the last three months in response to police brutality and the occupation of palestine. The other is that anarchists don't even have a "Party Line," thus their "terms" are widely varied and often flexible in favor of efficiency. I have seen that communists decry property destruction and localization of needs (community gardens, FnB, dual power insuitutions in general) as infantile and ineffective when it is taking place, and then need to "respect the rage of the people" once these events have become history; i.e. two weeks later.
by Jacelyn
Tuesday Aug 11th, 2009 8:47 PM
Denounce the attack
by Harun Arsalai
Monday Feb 22nd, 2010 4:45 PM
You douche bags co opt everything including my signature! You said it was an email list! I told you that I wouldn't have done that myself, but that also, "you guys were assholes" and I could see why it happened. I told this to Rafa's face!



I dont denounce M.A.C's action. And in fact, I now condone it!