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Police State and Prisons

Photo of Oakland PD Inflicted Injury at Docks (wire photos)
by repost
Monday Apr 7th, 2003 1:02 PM
photo and links to other photos
oakland_docks_opd_butality_ap_photo_by_paul_sakuma.jpg
oakland_docks_opd_butalit...

A protestor, who refused to give her name, bears the wounds after she says was hit by Oakland police weapon during a anti-war protest in Oakland, Calif., Monday, Aug. 7, 2003 outside the port area. (AP Photo/Paul Sakuma)
link to this photo w/caption at yahoo wire:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030407/168/3qdhu.html

OPD aiming shotgun:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030407/170/3qeca.html

OPD throwing concussion grenade:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030407/170/3qea3.html

"stingball" grenade goes off:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030407/168/3qdjh.html

Comments  (Hide Comments)

by repost
Monday Apr 7th, 2003 1:48 PM
My note: Many of the "less lethal" ammo types are meant to be bounced off the ground before they hit - the direction say something like "do not aim directly at person, may cause severe injury or death". These photos may be an example of these directions not being followed, but whatever they show, they definitely show police brutality and unnecessary use of force:

"Berkeley resident Clay Hinson (R), who was shot once in the chest and twice in the back during an anti-war protest, makes a statement to an Oakland Police sergeant at the West Oakland train station, April 7, 2003. Oakland police fired rubber bullets and wooden pellets on Monday to disperse hundreds of anti-war protesters in what was believed to be the first such use against U.S. protesters since the American-led war on Iraq (news - web sites) began. REUTERS/Tim Wimborne "

Frontal Wounds:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030407/170/3qeks.html

Back Wounds:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030407/170/3qee9.html
by anon
Monday Apr 7th, 2003 3:56 PM
I'd call this a good start. These Oakland protestors know how to kick ass. Much love for building on what was started on March 20th and continues on.

Once Dubya and Cheney et. al. are impeached and/or indicted as war criminals, the US should get out of the business of slaughtering people. Better yet, get out now and give them a one-way ticket to the Hague.

The pro-war folks should worry less about "liberating" people who didn't ask to be liberated and focus more on power-crazy, fajita-loving killer cops in SF and Oakland (and around the country), as well as murderous non-elected thugs in the White House.

I hope that picture (along with the pictures of all the other injured, including several dockworkers) gets e-mailed around the world as a lesson to fascists everywhere. YOUR DAYS ARE NUMBERED! We will not stand down, or be intimidated.




by b
Monday Apr 7th, 2003 4:55 PM
illinois? georgia? oh gee......well.....if they think war is right we should just forget about the rest of the world.....hahahaha SCREW the UN .....georgia and illinois know whats best for everyone......cmon man...get a freakin clue. if you want to let people die then thats your business.....but to try to argue that the opinion of two states.....or even jsut two countries should outweigh the WORLD is absolutely ludicrous.....
by Abraham
( abraham_94064 ) Monday Apr 7th, 2003 5:02 PM
To "A Real American" and all those so called "pro-war real American", how much do you know about the Middle-East history?

When King George told the whole world that Saddam killed thousands of innocent people with chemical weapons in the 90's, did he also say who provided the chemical and biological weapons? King George's father was one of the contributors. CIA not only provided the weapons of mass destruction to Saddam from the 70's to the laste 80's, U.S. also funded billions of dollars for Saddam to build up his regime. There's much more....

Don't be an ignorant. Learn more before you speak out against the pro-peace activists and the peace movement.
by Anthony
Monday Apr 7th, 2003 8:20 PM
Bush Senior:
Hating Saddam, Selling Him Weapons
by Kurt Nimmo

In an interview with CNN's Paula Zahn, former president George Bush spoke recently of his "hatred" of Saddam Hussein. "I hate Saddam Hussein," said Bush."I don't hate a lot of people. I don't hate easily, but I think he's, as I say, his word is no good and he's a brute. He's used poison gas on his own people. So, there's nothing redeeming about this man."

The former president claims to hate Saddam simply because he is "no good" and a "brute." Zahn does not bother to probe deeper. Paula Zahn's ratings are dismal these days. Her former boss over at FOX News said, "a dead raccoon could get higher ratings." The Bush interview, obviously, is good for Zahn's floundering career. As such, we shouldn't expect Zahn to push Bush Senior on the particulars of his hatred. Not these days, anyway, when the corporate media essentially plays second fiddle for the government.

Hatred in the wake of the Gulf War is not unique. For instance, Wasli el-Ghazali, most assuredly hated Bush and America. Ghazali was convicted back in 1994 for his role in a plot to murder George Bush the Elder during a visit to Kuwait. "Every Arab child is worth all of America," Ghazali told Robert Fisk of the Independent. "I am an Iraqi citizen. Bush killed 16 members of my family."

In response to the failed--and some would say bogus--plot to kill Bush, Clinton fired 23 Tomahawk missiles into Baghdad on June 26, 1993 (more than a year before the conviction of Ghazali and his co-conspirators). Seven of these "precision guided" missiles missed their target (or did they?) and hit civilian housing, killing eight people, including the renowned artist Leila al-Attar. Clinton later told the American people they could "feel good" about the attack. No word if Clinton, like Bush, hates Saddam Hussein--or, for that matter, innocent Iraqi civilians, including artists.

Bush did not tell CNN's Zahn if the assassination plot was the particular incident that stoked his hatred of the Iraqi dictator, nor did the anchor ask. It is fair to conclude Bush has not always hated Saddam. Or if he has hated Saddam all these years, he put that hatred aside in the name of statecraft. Reagan, Bush, the Iraqi dictator, and American corporations have worked together over the years. War and death make for good business. It also makes for lies and deception--and possibly for less than truthful interviews.

Former Reagan official and National Security Council staffer Howard Teicher has described a less than hateful relationship between the Reagan administration and Saddam Hussein. In 1995, Teicher offered an affidavit in the Teledyne case, a legal sideshow to a larger scandal known as "Iraqgate." According to Teicher, he and Donald Rumsfeld traveled to Iraq to make sure the Iraqi dictator received what he needed in order to win the Iran-Iraq war--or if not win at least make sure there was a draw. "CIA Director Casey personally spearheaded the effort to ensure that Iraq had sufficient military weapons, ammunition and vehicles," Teicher swore in the affidavit.

Teicher claims the United States "actively supported the Iraqi war effort by supplying the Iraqis with billions of dollars of credits, by providing US military intelligence and advice to the Iraqis, and by closely monitoring third country arms sales to Iraq to make sure Iraq had the military weaponry required." Reagan also sent a secret message to Saddam, which then vice president Bush delivered to Egyptian President Mubarak, and Mubarak passed on to Saddam, "telling him that Iraq should step up its air war and bombing of Iran." Reagan CIA director Casey wanted to give Saddam cluster bombs, which "were a perfect 'force multiplier' that would allow the Iraqis to defend against the 'human waves' of Iranian attackers," explained the former NSC staffer. He recorded Casey's comments in meeting minutes, which are now in the Ronald Reagan presidential archives in Simi Valley, California.

In 1982, Reagan "legalized" direct military assistance to Iraq. This resulted in more than a billion dollars in military related exports. According to Kenneth R. Timmerman (author of The Death Lobby: How the West Armed Iraq) the US government under Reagan and Bush sold Iraq 60 Hughes MD 500 "Defender" helicopters, eight Bell Textron AB 212 military helicopters equipped for anti-submarine warfare, 48 Bell Textron 214 ST utility helicopters (sold for "recreational" purposes), and US military infra-red sensors and thermal imaging scanners (sold illegally to Iraq through a Dutch company). After the Gulf War, the International Atomic Energy Agency found the following US equipment in Iraq: spectrometers, oscilloscopes, neutron initiators, high-speed switches for nuclear detonation, and other tools used to develop and manufacture nuclear weapons.

"One entire facility, a tungsten-carbide manufacturing plant that was part of the Al Atheer complex," Timmerman told the Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs, "was blown up by the IAEA in April 1992 because it lay at the heart of the Iraqi clandestine nuclear weapons program, PC-3. Equipment for this plant appears to have been supplied by the Latrobe, Pennsylvania manufacturer, Kennametal, and by a large number of other American companies, with financing provided by the Atlanta branch of the BNL bank."

BNL--or Banca Nazionale del Lavoro--provided more than $5 billion in unauthorized loans to Iraq, including $900 million guaranteed by the US government. "About half of the money allegedly went to finance the purchase of US farm products, including $900 million guaranteed by the Agriculture Department's Commodity Credit Corp., but investigators said much of the rest had helped fuel Iraq's military buildup," wrote George Lardner in the Washington Post on 22 March 1992. Lardner and others were learning about covert and illegal arms sales to Iraq through Representative Henry B. Gonzalez, chairman of the House Banking Committee. Gonzalez was conducting "special orders"--uninterrupted speeches on the House floor--detailing the criminal behavior of Reagan and Bush. Hardly anybody paid attention, least of all Bush, who was running for a second term.

While Bush Junior declares he "will not allow... a nation such as Iraq to threaten our very future by developing weapons of mass destruction," the administration of his father and Reagan, as the Gonzalez revelations demonstrate, apparently didn't have the future of America in mind when they allowed biological and chemical weapons--as well as massive amounts of conventional military hardware--to be exported to Iraq. They were only interested in making sure Saddam gassed as many Iranians as possible--and thus pay back the Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini for evicting the despised Shah Reza Pahlavi and initiating an anti-western revolution in Iran. No doubt it irks Bush, Cheney, neocons in general, and a few mulitnaitonal oil corporations that Iran is calling the shots on its oil resources.

The US Department of Commerce licensed 70 biological exports to Iraq between 1985 and 1989, including at least 21 batches of lethal strains of anthrax. The French newspaper Le Figaro, in an article published in 1998, said researchers at the Rockville, Maryland lab of the American Type Culture Collection confirmed sending anthrax samples via mail order to Iraq. After the Gulf War, Iraq made several declarations to UN weapons inspectors about how they had weaponized the anthrax sent to them by the American corporation. In 1985, the US Centers of Disease Control sent samples of an Israeli strain of West Nile virus to a microbiologist at the Basra University in Iraq. In addition, Iraq received other "various toxins and bacteria," including botulins and E. coli.

Corporations that have sold dual-use chemicals and biological samples to Iraq for its weapons program include: Phillips Petroleum, Unilever, Alcolac, Allied Signal, the American Type Culture Collection, and Teledyne. Teledyne pled guilty to charges of criminal conspiracy, false statements, and violations of the Export Administration Act and the Arms Export Control Act for indirectly exporting 130 tons of zirconium to Iraq through Chilean arms manufacturer Carlos Cardoen. The zirconium was intended for use in cluster bombs. In defense, Teledyne argued during the trial that the CIA had authorized the shipments. The Baltimore company Alcolac was convicted of illegally selling thiodiglycol--a chemical precursor used in the production of mustard gas--for use in Iraq's chemical warfare program.

When Murray Waas and Craig Unger published an article in The New Yorker about the Reagan administration and Bush's involvement with Saddam Hussein--a full three years before Howard Teicher's revelatory affidavit--they were roundly condemned and mocked by the corporate media. Steven Emerson of the Wall Street Journal called the article a "Byzantine conspiracy theory," while Michael Fumento, a syndicated columnist, said the story was "a big fat nothing," baseless innuendo that "spread like a flesh-eating bacteria into newspapers, newsmagazines, and television news throughout the country." Others accused a liberal media of attempting to derail Bush's re-election bid.

During the election, Bill Clinton promised, if elected, he would appoint an independent prosecutor to investigate the Iraqgate scandal. But like so many election promises Iraqgate fell off the radar screen not long after Clinton assumed office. Worse, when former NSC staffer Howard Teicher presented his affidavit in 1995, the Clinton Justice Department went on the offensive, accused Teicher of lying, and then promptly classified the document as a state secret. On January 15, 1995, attorney general Janet Reno and deputy John Hogan released a Final Report whitewashing the entire affair. It was hoped the whole thing would simply fade away. Except for a few books and other "Byzantine conspiracy theories," the Reagan-Bush-Iraqgate scandal has pretty much slipped from public view.

In general, the corporate media gave but cursory notice to the revelations. "There's a good reason why we in the media are so partial to a nice, torrid sex scandal," said Ted Koppel, as he opened a Nightline Iraqgate report in 1992. "It is, among other things, so easy to explain and so easy to understand. Nothing at all, in other words, like allegations of a government cover-up, which tend to be not at all easy to explain, and even more difficult to understand." In short, according to Koppel and the corporate media, the American people do not have the intelligence to judge for themselves if their leaders are criminals. Obviously, Monica Lewinsky is more important.

As Dubya the Junior and his coterie of chick hawks prepare to make war on a Frankenstein Bush the Senior--at least in part--created, the revelations exposed by Representative Henry B. Gonzalez and a handful of others need to be revisited within the full context of public debate.

However, considering the handmaiden role of corporate media in the dissemination of government propaganda--and its insistence upon offering vacuous interviews by the likes of Paula Zahn--chances are the American people will not be allowed to understand any time soon what the government does in their name.

Our only hope, it would seem, rests in "Byzantine conspiracy theories."

Kurt Nimmo is a photographer and multimedia developer in Las Cruces, New Mexico. He can be reached at: nimmo [at] zianet.com


by David A. Corby
Tuesday Apr 8th, 2003 12:31 AM
So if we find no WMD does that mean that Bush is a war criminal for starting an unprovoked war? In my book it does.

If we don't find anything like a smoking gun in Iraq and this truly does turn out to be an unprovoked war I think we (The United States) should pay 100% of the cost to rebuild Iraq. We should also repay the Iraqi people for all of their pain and suffering. George Bush should be held accountable for murder and war crimes. It is only fair.
by anon
Tuesday Apr 8th, 2003 2:45 AM
(repost)

THE PRIMARY PURPOSE OF THE POLICE IS **NOT** TO SOLVE CRIMES (EXCEPT PETTY CRIMES, WHEN THEY OPPORTUNISTICALLY CAN), BUT TO BE AVAILABLE, AS AN ARMED FORCE OF THE STATE, TO *CRUSH DISSENT*--WHETHER LABOR DISSENT OR POLITICAL DISSENT--WHEN THE CAPITALISTS NEED THEM TO.

(EVEN FROM THE TURN OF THE CENTURY, POLICE WERE ABSOLUTELY BRUTAL AGAINST WOMEN SUFFRAGETTE OR REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS DEMONSTRATORS, LET ALONE AGAINST STRIKING COAL MINERS, OTHER BLUE COLLAR DEMONSTRATORS, AND LATER CIVIL RIGHTS AND ANTI-VIETNAM WAR DEMONSTRATORS.)

IN FACT, IT HAS BEEN *REPEATEDLY* SHOWN THAT THE POLICE THEMSELVES ARE EITHER *INVOLVED* IN CRIME (DRUGS, PROSTITUTION, NUMBERS, THEFT, FRAMING PEOPLE, BEATING UP PEOPLE, ETC.) OR *PROMOTING* CRIME (AS WHEN THE POLICE EXACERBATE GANG VIOLENCE).

THE POLICE WORK FOR THE *STATE*--THE CAPITALISTS--*NOT* THE PEOPLE. TO PROTECT & SERVE MEANS *EXACTLY* THAT!: TO PROTECT AND SERVE THE CAPITALIST *STATE* AND CAPITALIST ASSETS/INSTITUTIONS. Ask anyone in the black/Latino community when the police have ever worked "to protect & serve" them--if anything at all, the police usually go there to humilitate, beat or shoot them.

(As far as police not really solving crimes as a priority: Look at how the police let Polly Klaas's murderer slip right through their fingers! Had Polly's kidnapper been a scruffy black/Latino guy--instead of a scruffy white guy--out of place on an isolated nearby country road, the police would have nabbed him.

Look at how Elizabeth Smart's family finally ignored the police and publicized their own information about Elizabeth's kidnapping suspect and got a tip from the public that *then* resulted in Elizabeth's recovery by the police!

Look at now the Jon-Benet Ramsey case was screwed up.

Look at how the police screwed up the Central Park Jogger rape case--and framed a bunch of innocent black teenagers, who the police intimidated, coerced and forced to falsely confess.

Look at how--with the eyes of the world upon the LAPD, the police totally screwed up the investigation and proper police and forensic procedure on the O.J. Simpson case!

The rate of unsolved crimes--except for two-bit, underclass, street level, drug busts (but never the rich white importers)--in the people of color communities is MONUMENTAL!!! Remember the tv news magazine installment about the hundreds of RAPE cases that big city police just write off--even disposing the evidence so that it can not be reviewed, re-examined, or re-tested with improved/new scientific techniques in the future.

Corporate TV, of course, *GREATLY* overrates and hypes the danger of police work in order to fool the public that the police are actually doing anything. Police work is fairly low on the scale of National Bureau of Labor Standards serious occupational injury and death rates--coming well below mining, construction, transportation, dockworking, farming, or even working in a 7-11. )

This makes sense, if you think about it. If the state wants to employ you as the state's hired goons (and street enforcers of racism), they want to ensure sure that cops won't easily DEFECT and join the other side or become one of the state's/system's knowledgeable critics, especially an insider or former insider. So, the state pay cops the most they can--readily assisted by strong police unions--to keep cops at least reasonably/fairly happy, financially. And then they let cops go out and, according to their individual proclivities, get their orgasmic rush beating heads, torturing victims or killing people (especially if the victims are black/Latino), because the cops know that, even in a major scandal, nothing much will ultimately happen to them. The state agreement with the cops is the state principle of "reasonable force"--an agreement (a wink) with a VERY WIDE latitude.

Or in the worst brutality scandal cases--POLICE MURDER--usually against police shooting victims who are black--the cops know that--regardless of any criminal sentence--they--the political PR sacrificial lambs--will only actually serve maybe, a slap-on-the-wrist, plus-or-minus 12 months or so at a country club prison where they can walk among the hedges, play golf or tennis, have very nice, basically, live-work office-like cells to relax and read in, etc. The police unions and the police department and the city will pick up the legal tab to defend even guilty cops.

MOST BLACK KIDS FROM THE GHETTO WOULD BREAK *INTO* ONE OF THOSE COUNTRY CLUB 'PRISONS' EVERY COUPLE OF YEARS--OR EVERY FEW MONTHS--IF THE GUARDS LET THEM CLIMB OVER THE FENCES!!!

I'm African American and we know the reality about cops ALL TOO WELL.

But, even young WHITE women in the Chicago area, who were once systematically stripped search over the most minor misdemeanors and traffic infractions by leacherous cops who took them in (before a court finally stopped them, after years and years), know cops all too well, too.

Even the women who were, a few years ago, once attacked by gangs of young men in New York's Central Park while the cops stood by and did nothing now know cops all too well.

In fact, I was wrong about one thing: now and then a cop does "defect" to the other side. First, there was NYPD's Serpico. Later, Michael Rothmiller, formerly in an LAPD intelligence unit defected and wrote an expose book called "Inside the Secret LAPD" about police intelligence unit violations of privacy and police abuse tactics against blacks. Former San Jose police chief Joseph McNamara (what an astronomical anomaly!: a *good* police chief) wrote about cops in his newspaper essay "The Liars Club," about how judges, prosecutors and cops all work together to promote cops lying from the arrest, through the system, to the courts, especially against black/Latino men. McNamara got rid of the *really* bad cops by patrolling the donut shops and running the cops out of them (not that I wouldn't rather have the cops siting on their butts, eating donuts, instead of harassing people).

In fact, a friend of mine (Diop Kamal) is a former Los Angeles cop. His father is a former L.A. county sheriff. They both suffered police abuse, respectively, at different times while off duty in civilian clothes (his father in a car with two grandkids in back). My friend successfully sued the LAPD, won, took his money, went to doctoral school in criminal-justice studies, and set up the Police Complaint Center in Miami, Florida. My friend's abuse was even caught on tape by a secret NBC news camera crew.

How about just one of the gangs that LAPD Mark Fuhrman was in: MAW -- Men Against Women -- who took it upon themselves to be as tough as possible on women in the police force. How about how women cops are indoctrinated as silent by-standers into the culture of police violence. How about the violent police gangs in the OPD (like "the Riders") and LAPD, as well as in other cities. They even had gang tattoos, just like *OTHER* street gangs. How about how even many black cops are expected to brutalize black/Latino suspects in order to be truly accepted into the culture of the police department and to be deemed "promotable".

Yeah: "to protect & serve"--but not us, the public!--the capitalist, corporate *state*!
by Susanna
Tuesday Apr 8th, 2003 2:24 PM
Next Time I go to a demonstration I'll wear a football / hockey - armour and a Helmet and then these fucking fascist assholes cops will get what they deserve!!!
by Pat L
Saturday Apr 12th, 2003 12:52 PM
From what I read in the papers, a group of people assembled on private property in order to prevent people from going to work. The police asked the group to leave and they did not leave. So the police used non-lethal force to remove the crowd so that people could go into work.

Please let me know if I am mistaken. I wasn't there and only know what I read in the paper.
by Mike UK
Sunday Apr 13th, 2003 2:15 AM
There is no media bias here in the UK, of course, but it does seem that there are many things that the media, including the BBC are overlooking whilst they fill our heads with 'glorious victory'. Keep telling the world of the other viewpoint, keep it up.
by Unca Josef
Monday Apr 14th, 2003 4:56 AM
There's a lot of talk about WMD not found. But what if WMD is found in the near future? In all likelihood, I think they will be found. Saddam has used them numerous times in the past, I don't think he'd so easily give them up. So what then, will we then say we now support Bush's action? We have been very stupid in how we oppose Bush. We have been putting up arguments that are too easily proved wrong in a very short time, then we are forced to shift the goal post and restart a different argument anew. This is very counterproductive as we will never have a coherent message and as we are proven wrong yet again, we lose just that much more credibility.
by Pat L.
Monday Apr 14th, 2003 4:32 PM
Non-lethal? Perhaps in the sense they didn't kill anyone. But I doubt the girl in the photo would claim they were non-painful! From what I understand, these protestors were on private property, with permission; so why did the OPD have any jurisdiction, outside observations, in the first place?
by Chris
Tuesday Apr 15th, 2003 3:05 PM
Nice wound on the face of protester. Matches the stupid nose jewelry. Her Dad should have taught her better manners. Reminds me of Jenny... in Forest Gump movie. Always doing things for mis-guided reasons.
by Chris
Tuesday Apr 15th, 2003 3:20 PM
Misguided hate.....Dont call the police when you need them....remember....they are bad. Try calling the Black Panthers.
by Minded
Tuesday Apr 15th, 2003 3:31 PM
To: Susanna re:Next Time I go to a demonstration I'll wear a football / hockey - armour and a Helmet and then these fucking fascist assholes cops will get what they deserve!!!

Your brain is mixed up. If you show up with armour and a helmet you will be shot with real bullets- and rightly so. Try protesting without violance and without impeding traffic and dont try to impose your kooky ideals on other free people. Go take a bath and get a job and be a productive member of this FREE society. Or move to a country where its not so horrible. Like Iran.
by Julia Sherwin
( haddad.sherwin [at] sbcglobal.net ) Wednesday Apr 16th, 2003 2:38 PM
My civil rights law firm is representing people who were hurt in the Oakland Port protest on 4/7, and we are currently looking for witnesses who saw the following individuals get shot:

1) The woman with long blond hair featured in the first photos on this website depicting the shooting victims. She was shot in the neck/chin; her picture with a "golfball" sized lump was published widely in newspapers and on the internet. She was in the vicinity of the SSA driveway.

2) An independent journalist, wearing press passes, who was shot in his hand as he was holding a video camera and filming the police. He was near the APL driveway in the vicinity of the 300 block of Maritime.

If you have any information concerning these people, please contact me or my partner, Michael Haddad. Thanks very much. Julia Sherwin, Haddad & Sherwin, (510) 622-7788
by mlm
Wednesday May 7th, 2003 2:12 PM
whoever wrote this:
"Nice wound on the face of protester. Matches the stupid nose jewelry. Her Dad should have taught her better manners. Reminds me of Jenny... in Forest Gump movie. Always doing things for mis-guided reasons."
seriously needs to have their head examined.
since when it it wrong to speak out and voice your opinion!?!? the only people who deserve a wound like that are the ones who put the president in office and support him fully despite his obvious shortcomings and bad judgment!


by Leedo
Friday May 16th, 2003 4:01 PM
wear the armour then take out a "pig" make me laugh. Then maybe the cops will call in the National guard for back up and I can kick the living shit out of you.

Leedo

ps Hell just bring a gun shoot some one then we can just open fire with "more then lethal" ammo.
by 50
Tuesday Nov 9th, 2004 6:53 PM
"Well, blind faith put you where you are now
You're a selfish old cow gettin' high on society's milk.
We pay your bills, life should be so tough.
You'd better watch your fat ass, 'cause we've had enough! "
-from the song Cold War