FORUM "$1.5 million settlement OK'd in officer-involved death"

Posted on Friday, 10/09/2009 - 12:33 p.m. PDT — by djtumbleweed

Sgt. Gonzales should be charged with murder. He should be taken off of Oakland's streets before he kills again. A price cannot be put on a human being's life, and 1.5 million isn't enough. My heart goes out to the King family. The deaths of Gary King Jr. and Oscar Grant III mark a very sad chapter in Oakland's history. These "legal" murders are proof that racism is alive and well in the United States, and that even though we have a Black President, young people of color still have no rights in this country. The fact that the City of Oakland paid the King family 1.5 million dollars is proof enough that Sgt. Gonzales is guilty and that the City is trying to sweep their mess under the rug.

Friday, 10/09/2009 - 7:54 p.m. PDT — Proof of Nothing
B_Traven

The City Council's decision to settle is proof of nothing but the inherent worthlessness of the career politicians we've elected. It was my understanding that Gary King, Jr. was a felon in possession of a gun who chose to violently resist arrest. I do not wish death on anyone, but Mr. King would be alive if he had obeyed the law.

Sgt. Gonzales is lucky not to have lost his life to Oakland's streets and the violent felons and parolees who roam them at will. I haven't forgotten the four officers who did die at the hands of Lovelle Mixon. Have you?

Saturday, 10/10/2009 - 11:01 a.m. PDT — I doubt djtumbleweed is
jif

I doubt djtumbleweed is interested in facts B Traven. I'm guessing it would interfere with his unusual version of the truth where gun toting felons who actively resist arrest are victims of racism.

Saturday, 10/10/2009 - 9:23 p.m. PDT — djtumbleweed, you haven't
jif

djtumbleweed, you haven't provided one fact that suggests that either of these shootings had anything to do with race. I would also like to caution you that you are mixing the two cases together as if they were interchangeable. They are not! King failed to comply with the lawful order of an officer. He reached toward his waistband area, where he had a concealed and loaded gun, when the officer ordered him to stop. He died. Oh well! Live (or die) and learn!

Grant is another story. No one, not even his mamma's attorney and criminal mouthpiece Burris, is denying that Oscar had quite a storied criminal history. None of this, by all accounts, was known by Mehserle. What was apparent from the video was what Oscar learned from his past criminal dealings with the po-leece - nothing! What he learned to do was continue to resistn arrest despite the fact that handcuffs come off as easily as they go on. Mehserle has no business in the business of law enforcement, but I am not shedding any tears over Oscar's death. It was only a matter of time before he ended up on a slab. The only good news is that the person who pulled the trigger was a cop and now his family will be able to sue and get the golden goose which would have eluded them had his natural enemy (read: rival drug dealer, other baby daddy, someone he dissed, etc) gotten him. Be thankful that his daughter will now have the choice between being college educate and just as disgustingly ghetto as her daddy was.

Saturday, 10/10/2009 - 10:32 p.m. PDT — Well jif, that was pretty
djtumbleweed

Well jif, that was pretty rude, but I guess that is just how you feel. Glad you sort of see both sides, I guess, maybe... at least with the Mehserle/Grant case... but still very rude...

Saturday, 10/10/2009 - 2:14 p.m. PDT — Please allow me to respond...
djtumbleweed

I understand that there are some questions regarding this case. Gary King JR was immediately described as a felon by the media following the shooting. There was never any proof of this. It turns out from my understanding that he was not a felon. As for the concealed weapon in question, that opens up a whole can of worms. Did he actually have a gun or was it planted after the murder, it wouldn't be the first time that has happened. Also, in general, who in American society should be allowed to own/carry a gun and who shouldn't. Should every American citizen who carries a gun receive the same treatment as Gary, even if they run away from an officer after being tazed? One more question... After watching all of the video footage of the Oscar Grant III murder available on youtube and other news sources, would you both make the same statements regarding that particular situation? Do you consider Oscar to be just another "gun toting felon"? I suggest you check your facts. I also believe it is sad that four Oakland police officers were killed this year, it's not good for anyone. That situation and the situations involving Gary King JR and Oscar Grant III couldn't be more different. Every situation in life is unique and should be treated as such. Having the attitude that all young Black men who fit a particular description (baggy pants, dreadlocks, etc.) should be treated like criminals will do nothing to solve the problem of racism in America. It only feeds the cycle of violence that needs to be stopped. Anyone who believes that racism doesn't exist, and isn't a major problem in America is simply forgetting our history, which isn't very old. It has only been a little over 100 years since slavery and the extermination of Native Americans. It shouldn't come as a shock that the same institutions that allowed these atrocities are still in place, and the attitudes have changed very little.

Saturday, 10/10/2009 - 3:00 p.m. PDT — fyi being 20yo with concealed loaded gun in public IS illegal
Chris M

FYI minimum age to legally own a handgun in CA is 21. Regardless of age, there are strict laws that forbid transporting it while loaded, or, bearing it concealed without a hard-to-get permit.

There will be Youtube videos of Martians dropping from the sky and planting the loaded gun on the victim before there's even a speck of truth to your fiction of OPD having planted a gun on him in a magictrick unseen by the witnesses.

You also seem unaware that one of Oscar Grant's past 12 arrests was for fleeing arrest while in illegal possesion of a loaded gun. I believe that's the charge that landed him the prison term he'd been released from 3 months prior to his death after detention for a parole-violating brawl, which could have landed him a 3rd Strikes prison term.

djtumbleweed, it seems you believe cops should just let suspects already reported as wanted for other violent offenses go free, if they don't want to be questioned or arrested. After all, so many in society (and in this forum) clearly doesn't mind when scores of citizens are slain at the hands of these violent persons. These killers all have people that love them. They were all just about to turn their lives around. Let's all have a group hug and sing "kumbahya"!

Saturday, 10/10/2009 - 5:48 p.m. PDT — "kumbahya"
djtumbleweed

For Chris M... No one asked Chris M or the officers who shot Gary King Jr and Oscar Grant III to act according to their interpretation of the law. Oscar Grant III, just like every American citizen, has rights despite prior offences (whether imagined, contrived, or real). No police officer, at least in these United States, gets to play judge, jury, and executioner. That's not only the bottom line, it's the law.

Saturday, 10/10/2009 - 5:57 p.m. PDT — One more thing...
djtumbleweed

No one is asking the police to let violent suspects go, not sure how you got that. I'm just asking the officers to try not to shoot them in the back with the intention to kill, once the suspects are already face and belly down on the ground with cuffs on their wrists and a boot in their neck. No one can argue with that.

Saturday, 10/10/2009 - 8:56 p.m. PDT — djtumbleweed
Chris M

djtumbleweed, the question was about illegal possession of guns in public by persons with a record of past criminal acts, when they defy apprehension by cops. Apparently you have no problem with illegally armed criminals committing violent crimes, resisting arrest, &/or refusing to be held accountable for their criminal deeds. Your problem seems to be only with those in the uneviable, clearly uncool, job of being police - especially when police don't kowtow to evasions by the suspects or criminals.

BTW cops don't kill people for the reasons you claim! I wish, if deemed necessary to shoot, that they would only shoot at the legs. But it's been explained to me that cops are trained to shoot for the largest body mass, so the bullets much less likely to miss. Of course, the biggest prevention against cop's bullets in the back is not running away when ordered to stay, in the first place. But that would involve suspects being responsible for self in ways they aren't too keen on doing. Much easier to point fingers, later! More lucrative, too!

Also, it's a proven fact that, contrary to your description, no Grant was not in handcuffs at the time he was shot. FYI Grant would still be alive if only he had quit refusing to let Mehserle grab his other arm to put into handcuffs. Take up your fiction & projections with someone else who isn't tired of the same old lies and racist-agenda race-card rhetoric. King's death had no more to do with the color of his skin than did the skin color of those killed at that same intersection months later by those armed Berkeley thieves who fled police and killed some innocent bystanders by crashing into them. Crime is crime, EOS.

Saturday, 10/10/2009 - 10:11 p.m. PDT — Chris M... I do have a
djtumbleweed

Chris M... I do have a problem with "illegally armed criminals committing violent crimes, resisting arrest, &/or refusing to be held accountable for their criminal deeds." We could debate forever about Oscar Grant's handcuff situation as well. After looking at those videos over and over again, and watching the public execution of Oscar Grant III in front of hundreds of people. Watching him face down, belly down, clearly no longer resisting arrest... it is unconscionable what Bart Officer Mehserle chose to do at that moment. There is no way that anyone who has seen the tapes could argue against this. If this same situation happened to a white kid in front of all of those people in the Fruitvale Bart station, there would be a national/global outcry and Mehserle would be brought to justice. This does have to do with race. Unfortunately in America some people's lives are worth more than others and that is just a plain fact. After seeing this blatant public execution with my own eyes, I will never believe that Bart Officer Mehserle acted out of fear of losing his life! He intended to kill this young man, and knew that he would be able to get away with it, even in front of all of those people. He knew that he would get away with it because Oscar Grant III fits the same stereotypical description that you and clearly so many others are afraid of, and unfortunately can no longer see as human because of your fear. Sadly, I'm sure if we had a video tape of Gary King Jr's murder we would probably come to the same conclusion. The last time I checked... it is a fundamental right as a citizen of most democracies on this planet, including our own, to be presumed innocent until proven guilty according to law.