Attorneys Urge California Supreme Court To Invalidate Prop 8

Both Sides are playing the fear card. The anti 8 folks warn of loss of civil rights for other groups if 8 is upheld. The pro 8 types warn of a loss of family and harm to the children. I don't see either happening. However I do think it is innappropriate to single out an individual group. My suggestion is that the state get out of the marriage business. Evryone gets a civil union certificate from the state and if you want to get married go talk to a church.

The problem with Prop. 8 is that it allows certain members of religious groups (Mormons, Catholics, Evangelicals) who are openly biased against homosexuality to impose their beliefs on the rest of the country (in this case CA, though it applies elsewhere also) in clear violation of the U.S. Constitution's separation of church and state..

"Through the debates in the House, Senate, and conference committees, the wording of all of these proposals was whittled down to the religion clauses of what is our 1st Amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

quote found @;
http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_reli.html

We cannot single out every member of the above three religions as being responsible for the passing of Prop 8, though most of the funding and support for this proposition came from various members of the above three groups. It may be easier to just single out the Mormons, as pointing fingers at Catholics can be seen as "politically incorrect", though many Catholic churches also contributed to Prop 8, as did the conservative elements of the Evangelicals..

Whomever was responsible for the passing of Prop 8, it remains a blatant violation of the U.S. Constitution's separation of church and state, so it reaches beyond the CA border..

The beginning of the U.S. as a country was marked by the forming of the U.S. Constituion and Bill of Rights, and in these documents were written provisions to ensure liberty and freedom from religious oppression. During those times of colonialism the Puritan sect of Christianity was the dominant force, and sought to violently impose their will on the public, including other Christians (Puritans killed peace loving Quakers routinely). The separation of church and state was initiated by the founding father to protect people from the excesses of power hungry religions like Christian Puritanism and the state run Anglican Church of England..

"From Legacy Of Freedom by Rob Boston, Church and State, January, 2003. "Jefferson, Madison And The Nation's Founders Left Us Church-State Separation. Can We Keep It?"

What the Religious Right doesn't tell people, and what, tragically, many Amer­icans apparently don't know, is that when it comes to determining what the laws of the United States mean, the only document that matters is the Consti­tution. The Constitution, a completely secular document, contains no references to God, Jesus or Christianity. It says absolutely nothing about the United States being officially Christian. The Religious Right's constant appeals to documents like the Declaration of Independence, which contains a deistic reference to "the Creator," cloud the issue and make some people believe their rights spring from these other documents."

article found @;
http://www.theocracywatch.org/separation_church_state2.htm

also;

"The U.S. Constitution is a wholly secular document. It contains no mention of Christianity or Jesus Christ. In fact, the Constitution refers to religion only twice in the First Amendment, which bars laws "respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," and in Article VI, which prohibits "religious tests" for public office. Both of these provisions are evidence that the country was not founded as officially Christian."

article @;
http://www.au.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=9061&news_iv_ctrl=0&abbr=resources

Marriage is a form of bonding sanctioned by the church, and should take place within the church of one's choosing. If somebody wishes to join a church (like the Mormons) that prohibits gay marriage, then that is their choice. For the supporters of Prop 8, that would be the recommended option. Any reform of marriage should take place within the church, not in the public sphere..

However, if someone wishes to create and/or join a church that supports gay marriage, then they should have this option also, and the state government needs to recognize ANY marriage or civil union that the specific church chooses..

Even athiests, agnostics and pagans have the right to become bonded through marriage or civil unions to the partner of their choice, same, opposite or inbetween (transgender)..

Furthermore there are serious questions if the Christian church should even be regulating sexual orientation based upon Old Testament doctrine. Many of the Old Testament writings like "eye for an eye" were negated by Jesus's message of unconditional love, forgiveness and acceptance. Jesus did not practice discrimination against others, though he did call the moneylenders out of the temple for their blasphemy..

The message of love and forgiveness preached by Jesus does not mean "anything goes", and acts of violence and forced sexual contact, rape and child molestation remain violations of the human law and the perpetrators need to be held accountable (including the hypocritical religious theocracy that gets away with it!!) and kept away from potential victims. Other than that, we are to respect and honor any sexual relations between two consenting adults, no questions asked. This includes the rites of marriage and long term bonding..

The supporters of Prop 8 are/were wrong on both counts, one in violation of the U.S. Constitution and two in violation of the teachings of the man their religion is named after and they claim to follow. It will be our goal to oust the Prop 8 hypocrites from their hiding places in positions of religious authority and excommunicate them from their respective churches for their misdeeds..