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11/10 KPFA Election Forum Highlights; Mail Ballot Before 11/13 for 11/15 Receipt Deadline
by $
Saturday Nov 10th, 2007 2:38 PM
This weekend is your last chance to mail your ballot for the KPFA, 94.1 FM Local Station Board election so that it can be received at the PO Box on the return envelope by 11/15/07. Starting 11/13/07, you will have to walk your ballot to the station at 1929 Martin Luther King, Berkeley. Remember, on Monday, 11/12/07, there will be no mail delivery. The second and last 2 hours of the KPFA, 94.1 FM, on air election forum for Local Station Board candidates is highlighted here to illustrate the need for your participation as we must have 10% of the subscribers participating to make this a valid election, a difficult goal to realize.
This weekend is your last chance to mail your ballot for the KPFA, 94.1 FM Local Station Board election so that it can be received at the PO Box on the return envelope by 11/15/07. Starting 11/13/07, you will have to walk your ballot to the station at 1929 Martin Luther King, Berkeley. Remember, on Monday, 11/12/07, there will be no mail delivery. The second and last 2 hours of the KPFA, 94.1 FM, on air election forum for Local Station Board candidates is highlighted here to illustrate the need for your participation as we must have 10% of the subscribers participating to make this a valid election, a difficult goal to realize.

If you missed any of the candidate forums, you may hear them at:
http://pacificana.org/kpfa-air-candidates-forums

The candidates challenging management's "Concerned Listener" lickspittle slate had much to say at the November 10, 2007 on air forum.

1. Steve Zeltzer clearly demonstrated his outstanding leadership qualities in his understanding of the issues and in his delivery that makes him by far the best candidate of all the people running for Local Station Board. He knows that he knows because he has spent his life working for the needs and interests of the workingclass, which must be the base of KPFA if KPFA is to survive and grow in these fascist times. From his call to have listeners sitting on the program committee instead of an executive director making the programming decisions, to his outstanding suggestions of a computer technology program, a weekly labor hour, and news bureaus in the different listener areas of KPFA, to his emphasis on action based formats such as having KPFA go to the workingclass communities and to all the protests and having the people in those communities and at the protests, including antiwar protests, speak about their issues, thus broadening both the listening base and the subscriber base, Steve Zeltzer demonstrated to all the fact that KPFA must always be a grassroots community radio station. At every opportunity, Steve made sure to give his contact information and his slate's candidates and websites. Not a moment was wasted or lost because Steve Zeltzer has the knowledge and experience which is urgently needed on the Local Station Board in these fascist times. His slate is more fully described at http://voicesforjusticeradio.googlepages.com/ and below.

2. Stan Woods brought his workingclass organizing experiences in West Virginia to this forum to illustrate the necessity of making KPFA a community based voice of the workingclass. His perspective is a good reminder that the workingclass is international. That is, we are black, brown, yellow, red and white, same enemy, same fight, workers of the world, unite! His slate is more fully described at http://www.peoplesradio.net/ and below.

3. Bob English described his years of community organizing in and around San Francisco and strongly opposed the advertising gimmicks of $1 million donations from mythical angels and the accompanying top-down management that is causing KPFA to lose members and become another bourgeois radio station that no one needs. He is also with the People's Radio slate.

The Concerned Listeners have, over the course of the 11/3 and 11/10 forums, bragged about many things including being a voice of the Wellstone Democratic Club. This is the same Democratic Party that had 6 of its members and 1 former member in the US Senate vote for an attorney general who supports torture, in other words, for fascism. They are Senators Dianne Feinstein of California, Charles Schumer of New York, Joe Lieberman of Connecticut, Evan Bayh of Indiana (a potential vice presidential candidate in 2008), Thomas Carper of Delaware, Ben Nelson of Nebraska and Mary Landrieu of Louisiana. Dianne Feinstein is up for re-election in 2008, unless she retires.

The Concerned Listener slate also called for more support by KPFA for such pleasant but not workingclass political events such as San Francisco's Stern Grove summer music festivals (in the fog, where the sun rarely shines). KPFA cannot grow with such a publicity stunt scheme as its growth must be among the workingclass, giving voice to the needs and interests of the workingclass. The reward for providing such an urgently needed media outlet to the workingclass will be more than sufficient funds to survive and grow.

The Concerned Listener slate, young and not so young, proudly supported their bizarre house parties to raise money to publicize their slate, which included a mailer we received about the same time as we received our ballots. This does not help KPFA broaden its base or build any kind of unity; it promotes monied interests, exactly the opposite of the needs and interests of the workingclass. The publicity came from these on air forums on Saturday, and the previous forums in October which also should have been on the weekend. The October forums also were not well-publicized and should have been announced just before the 6 p.m. evening news, every day during the week before they occurred. The same is true for the November forums. This writer was unaware of the October forums until November and does not recall hearing about the November forums on the air.

The final insult from the Concerned Listener slate was its promotion of the cancellation of our regular programs for which we pay on Friday, November 9, 2007, from 3 p.m. to 11 p.m., including Hard Knock Radio, Flashpoints and the 6 p.m. evening news, so that the reactionary Democrat who supports the government's lies on the 9/11 Inside Job, Larry Bensky, could promote a government hearing, treating KPFA as his plaything for 8 hours, all of which will certainly be summarized on the Saturday, November 10, 2007 evening news, and probably the Sunday, November 11 and Monday, November 12, 2007 evening news as usually happens when events take place after the last broadcast of the 6 p.m. evening news on a weekday, which this week was a Thursday. The news team always does a good job of summarizing all government hearings, most of which consist of procedural garbage, making the actual newsworthy statements very minimal. As a result of this latest outrage by Bensky & Company, this writer did not listen to KPFA on Friday, November 10, 2007 at all, having given up on the Democrats hosting the Morning Show long ago and checking Democracy Now online. Promoting government hearings is a sure way to destroy KPFA's listener support and this outrage must end immediately.

PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR BALLOT TODAY AND MAIL IT TODAY. Two excellent slates are:
1. Voices for Justice at
http://voicesforjusticeradio.googlepages.com/
and their related, very informative website,
http://www.kpfalaborcommunity.net/

Their candidates are:
Steve Zeltzer
Carl Bryant
CC Campbell-Rock
Sureya Sayadi
Their program is at:
http://kpfavoicesforjustice.googlepages.com/program
Their endorsers are at:
http://kpfavoicesforjustice.googlepages.com/endorsers
and are:
Cynthia McKinney, former Georgia congressperson
Dr. Ahimsa Sumchai, medical doctor and 2007 candidate for mayor of San Francisco
Cindy Sheehan, peace activist
Sandra Everette, CTA member and member of San Mateo Greens
Gregory Richardson, Video producer, CTC
Joan Mathis, Video producer, CTC
Jack Heyman, ILWU Local 10 executive board member
Idriss Stelley Foundation
Willie and Mary Ratcliff, publisher of San Francisco Bayview
Ralph Schoenman, producer of Taking Aim and author
Riva Enteen, past chair of KPFA Local Station Board

2. The People's Radio slate is the other good set of candidates, with their program, candidates and issues listed at:
http://www.peoplesradio.net/
Their candidates are at
http://www.peoplesradio.net/election2007.htm
and are:
Richard Phelps
David Heller
Attila Nagy
Bob English
Gerald Sanders
Mara Rivera
Stan Woods
Their endorsers are:
Dr. Peter Phillips – Project Censored director
Michael Parenti – Author & lecturer
William Mandel - 37 year KPFA foreign affairs commentator/talk show host, author
Peter Camejo – 3 time gubernatorial candidate & Green Party member
The Green Party of Alameda County endorses each of our candidates individually
The Peace & Freedom Party of Alameda County
The Peace & Freedom Party of San Francisco County
The Petaluma Progressives
The Northern California 9/11 Truth Alliance
Richard Gage - AIA, Architect, Founder of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth

Jack Heyman – ILWU Local 10 Executive Board member rank & file organizer
Jack Ford – Teamsters Local 921 SF Chronicle Truck Drivers former president
Liana Molina – Woodfin Hotels Boycott coordinator
Eva Royal - Cesar Chavez Holiday Committee Chair, former UFW Bay Area Regional Manager/organizer
Alan Benjamin - Delegate to the SF Labor Council for Office and Professional Employees International Union #3

LaVarn Williams – KPFA Local Station Board, Pacific National Board director & Treasurer
Bonnie Faulkner - Host of Guns & Butter, KPFA
Miguel "Gavilan" Molina - Host of Flashpoints, La Honda Bajita
Francisco Herrera – musician, KPFA Flashpoints contributor
David Janda - KBBF, member of Voces Cruzando Fronteras, photogapher
Ernest Rivera – SomArts Cultural Center board president

Comments  (Hide Comments)

by Old Lib
Saturday Nov 10th, 2007 4:20 PM
The groups of the main message are a 'smoke and mirrors' tactic; save for one or two individuals, all of the other slates are just re-branded members of Peoples Radio who are pretending to be an "alternative".

Voting for them is little more than firing staff who disagree with their politics, and economic Hell for KPFA as they seek to cut fundraising and use volunteers more instead of paying for professional staffing, like bookkeepers, engineers for the electronics, and other positions that require professional level skillsets working at regular and consistent business hours.

How does using volunteers pay the power bill for the transmitter and studios? How many tofu potlucks buy new equipment or fill the emergency generator tank?

Concerned Listeners present a workable and balanced approach to keeping KPFA on the air and improving the station's ability to meet its mission and mandate from both Pacifica and the Federal Communications Commission.

Concerned Listeners do not attack staff and management but instead support development of new and accessible programming.

Vote in any order:
Warren Mar
Sherry Gendelman
John Van Eyck
Antonio Medrano
Matthew Hallinan
Susan McDonough
Paul Robins
Dianne Enriquez

Save KPFA from a return to 1999 and a board hostile to staff, management and listeners who dare to dissent from the board's views.

Vote Concerned Listeners to keep KPFA alive and on the air.

http://www.concernedlisteners.org
by $
Saturday Nov 10th, 2007 8:09 PM
Obviously, since Dianne Feinstein was just re-selected in November 2006, her term expires in 6 years. According to the California Secretary of State, she received a little over 5 million votes, or 59.5% of the vote. The twin party of the Democrats, the Republicans, received almost 3 million votes, about 35% of the vote. The two peace candidates, Todd Chretien of the Green Party received 147,074 votes and Marsha Feinland of Peace & Freedom Party received 117,764 votes. This occurred in a state of 27 million adults. With serious voter registration among the workingclass, and electing peace candidates for city, county, state and congressional offices in the interim, and a serious voice of the workingclass such as KPFA in Berkeley and KPFK in Los Angeles promoting these peace candidates, we could have a serious peace candidate for US Senate to replace both millionaire friends of the war machine's favorite military base, Israel, namely Senators Boxer and Feinstein. In fact, every single Democratic and Republican elected official by definition is a staunch supporter of the US military base in the Middle East that exists with $6 billion from the US taxpayers to protect US oil profits in the Middle East, namely Israel. That is why, among many reasons, the Democrats and Republicans are best described as the twin parties of war and fascism.

Contrary to the reactionary comment above, it is the current management supported by the Wellstone Democratic Club's slate, the "Concerned Listeners," who are reviving the pre-1999 board that was hostile to listeners, staff and management as it is a clique destroying the listener base and finances with its constant government hearings, its lack of publicity for these Local Station Board candidate forums, and, for example, its refusal to change Democracy Now's first broadcast from 6 a.m. to 7 a.m., providing an open hour for new programming from 6 a.m. to 7 a.m. and giving more of an audience to the first broadcast, and thus more possible financial support for this popular program in particular and KPFA in general and its refusal to change Democracy Now's second broadcast from 9 a.m. to 7 p.m. which will certainly give more listener support to KPFA, both of which program changes have been voted for by the Local Station Board but have not been carried out by the "management" of KPFA. For more on the history of this issue, see http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2007/11/10/18459878.php

By involving the various workingclass communities in the 9 counties of the Bay Area, the Sacramento area and the Fresno area with the production of programs that bring their issues to the airwaves, we will both broaden our listener base and increase our finances as all of these communities will have good reason to contribute to their community radio station. It is also the best protection against government repression as we are the many and the fascists are the few. Reactionaries only appear strong when there is no mass base. That is why you must vote TODAY for the pro-workingclass candidates, all supported by Peace & Freedom Party and the Green Party, as described above. Fascism was defeated during World War 2 not with sitting at home and letting someone else take care of it, but with mass participation of the workingclass around the world. All you have to do is vote in this Local Station Board election. Please vote TODAY.
Richard Phelps, Joe Wanzala, and LaVarn Williams met with Matthew Hallinan and others during the last LSB elections and tried to get an endorsement from the Wellstone Democratic Renewal Club for Peoples Radio. (You can even read about it on the old Peoples Radio website.) Isn't this just sour grapes that Wellstone said no and endorsed Concerned Listeners instead?

And in the last election, Democratic Party official Regina Carey ran on the Peoples Radio slate...
by uh what?
Saturday Nov 10th, 2007 11:09 PM
Stern Grove concerts are free! how could that not be working class?
by volunteer
Saturday Nov 10th, 2007 11:37 PM
> both of which program changes have been voted for by the Local Station Board but have not been carried out by the "management" of KPFA.

I do not think that the Local Station Board is the place to make programming decisions. That means like 24 people vote and turn kpfa's programming into a political tug of war? The LSB has all these powers and things to do, oversee finances and hire and review management, it cannot also program the station, it doesn't function that well to begin with, plus there are no qualifications whatsoever to be on the LSB, a group could easily infiltrate the board and sway the programming at kpfa, and we would know very little about these people because they are not even required to submit a resume! Remember when the NRA and the Sierra Club? There are no safeguards against something like that, and these folks argue fervently to open it up to anyone and have it be where programming decisions happen in the name of "democracy". That could go really badly and kpfa should be more buffered from that. There is no affirmative action component to being on the LSB as there is in the hiring and radio training at kpfa. I think programming by majority vote of the LSB is a really bad idea, programming should happen by the people who work at the station and who are trained and who program at the station and who dialogue with the listeners in the course of working at the station and who manage the station and who can make informed decisions, not by politicians and local political activists with agendas meeting once a month on the LSB.

by Aaron Aarons
Sunday Nov 11th, 2007 4:39 AM
The Program Council, an official part of station governance that consists mostly of staff members, voted -- in 2003! -- to move Democracy Now! to 7am. The LSB voted to support that decision and the then-GM Roy Campanella tried to implement it. The staff heavies stonewalled, Campanella was forced out, and we're still waiting!

Moreover, it's a bad idea to have programmers control programming decisions other than the content of their own programs. You wind up with people ganging up to defend their turf, which is what happened with the defense of the Morning Show's time slot against being pushed into a later and less desirable slot by Democracy Now!
Hypocracy Watch: Richard Phelps, Joe Wanzala, and LaVarn Williams met with Matthew Hallinan and others during the last LSB elections and tried to get an endorsement from the Wellstone Democratic Renewal Club for Peoples Radio. (You can even read about it on the old Peoples Radio website.) Isn't this just sour grapes that Wellstone said no and endorsed Concerned Listeners instead?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
RP: As usual only part of the facts and then a major distortion. Among the others that were there were Kathleen Lilley, Sasha Lilley's mother. Interesting that you fail to mention her? We didn't ask for that meeting to get an endorsement. We wanted to make sure they heard our side. The "dismantlers" leave so much out and are very lax about the truth. This was reinforced by what the Wellstone folks had been told when we talked to them. They hadn't been told about Sarv Randhawa's consistently voting against transparency and in support of Justice & Unity's defense of the dying WBAI. As it turned out they didn't seem to care and made him there #1 candidate?????

At the end of the meeting we asked if the WDC was going to make an endorsement would we be allowed to make a presentation to the organization. Their response was that WDC always hears from both sides before they make endorsements. We never were asked to speak before the organization and the WDC did endorse CL. The endorsement was based on the small group presentation which included Sasha Lilley's mother, no bias there?

In the spring/summer of 2006 I and another PR person also met with East Bay Progressive Democrats. After about an hour discussion with about 10-12 of them, not three including an opponents mother, which included the facts of the transparency struggle that had taken place in Pacifica, I asked if they had met with anyone else and they said yes. I recall it was Brian Edwards-Tiekert, Sherry Gendelman and Bonnie Simmons, (all three from the "dismantlers" group, how interesting, how come other staff are never involved?) I asked them if there had been any mention of the transparency struggle by the three and they said none, the word had not been mentioned as an issue by the "dismantlers" and many of EBPD were shaking their heads in disbelief. They made no endorsement that I saw last year.

The refusal to allow PR to address the WDC before an endorsement was voted is reflective of the type of "democracy" and "free speech" the CL folks have been practicing as the slim majority on the LSB. The same reason none of them will ever agree to a public debate of the issues since they want their 1/2 truths and distortions to be unchallenged before their followers. Is this what KPFA/Pacifica is about?? Win without the truth?? Shouldn't it be that the truth should guide us to victory, if it is to be a progressive victory?

If what WDC did re: endorsement and CL does on the LSB is progressive politics to you vote for CL, if you want transparency, open discussion and debate before endorsemrnts are made or policies decided, vote for Peoplesradio and other NOT CL candidates.

Also please note that all of the new CL candidates have NO experience with KPFA. Most have admitted that they have never been to an LSB meeting. They have swallowed the CL kool-aid with no investigation. There were three meetings since most of them signed up to run that they could have attended. I guess none of them cared to see what their allies really do, have another drink of Kool-aid, who needs reality.

In contrast PeoplesRadio candidates have all been to several meeting and have been involved with KPFA issues for years. They were not recruited from a political tendency as it appears the CL candidates have been, the PR candidates have come together out of practice and concern for KPFA/Pacifica. None of us were ever in another political organization together before KPFA involvement and PR is a very loose group.

It seems to me that most of the CL candidates have come from groups that center their organizing around the Democratic Party, which is fine as long as they cop to that is what they want KPFA to be centered around, instead of trying to make it look like others want to control KPFA, when they do.

All we want at Peoplesradio is to have a fair, democratic & transparent process that allows for listener involvement, the folks that donate the $4 million each year to run the station, to be in place so that decisions can be made for the movement as a whole and not just one tendency. How many people on the CL slate, this year and last, are current or past members of C of C, WDC or other organizations within that tendency ? No disrespect for those organizations meant by this comment and is it just a coincidence that they mostly come from that tendency and yet they accuse a bunch of peoplesradio folks that came together around concern for KPFA and no prior organizational connections, of wanting to dominate and control the politics of the station?

So CL's claim that Peoplesradio is trying to take over KPFA is actually their projection? What does the evidence demonstrate?

I didn't know any of the Peoplesradio folks before KPFA, except for very casual contact at peace marches, picket lines and other similar events.

Richard Phelps

by Truth Out
Sunday Nov 11th, 2007 7:32 PM
That many Concerned Listeners have no prior experience in KPFA politics is a point in their favor. It shows they aren't fanatically obsessed and have real lives. It shows they like KPFA and want to help it, but aren't absolutely fanatical about it. People's Radio have nothing to offer. They go on about transparency yet don't appear to realize that all the information they want has been a part of public record for years. What he means by "transparency" is access to worker's private personnell information. That's pretty scuzzy and creepy and anti-worker.

The first posting in this thread actually reveals a lot about the weirdo cult-like nature of the writer. Note the loopy conspiracy theory references and creepily pro-Stalinist rhetoric. The hyperbolic use of terms like fascism to hide their own totalitarian world-view.

Really folks Concerned Listeners is the best shot KPFA has for bringing the station back from the brink of total irrelevance.


by "fanatacism."
Sunday Nov 11th, 2007 11:44 PM
Yes, God save us from people who care about the things they care about!

How... 20th century of them. It's like people who expect to find books (books! I ask you) in libraries.... and not just sleek, shiny banks of computer terminals.

You tell 'em, "Truth Out"! What really matters are distracted, disenfranchised leaders, who can be pushed around from behind the scenes. That's how we run things, here in America!
by Truth Out
Monday Nov 12th, 2007 9:39 AM
That's right I said fanatical. Caring about something and making it the only damn thing you think about from the moment you get up in the morning to the moment you go to bed at night are two different things. People can get fanatical about their jobs, which is something they do every day, and that is bad enough. But getting fanatical about some radio station board, of which you are supposed to be volunteering your spare time, is really over the edge into obsessive disorder.

It's a lot better to be grounded in the real world with concern for your job, family, friends and hobbies than it is to be psychotically obsessed with a radio station and every little thing that goes on there. To be honest I'd much rather have a board that wasn't frothing at the mouth, that wanted to help the station in their spare time, and get on with life in the real world with the rest of their time. That is a whole hell of a lot healthier than what People's Radio is all about.

Don't know what the analogy about libraries and books and things have to do with anything, but I guess when someone's got mental issues it's fruitless to look for logic in their arguments.
by And....
Monday Nov 12th, 2007 2:11 PM
...engaging in polemical diatribes about the politics of anomymous, random strangers on a local leftie talk board isn't fanatical.

In fact, I'm sure you could take your "logic" even further, and define anyone who disagrees with you as "fanatical," and anyone who expresses support for you and your social agenda, as "sane" and "reasonable."

Such a scientific rigor to your logical method, Dr. Truthout Spock. Why can't others seem to learn to naturally defer to such superior intelligence?
by Truth out
Monday Nov 12th, 2007 7:08 PM
Call me Dr. Spock, Joyce Brothers and Captain damn Kirk for that matter. Nowhere have I said that anyone who disagrees with me is wrong. That's specualtion on your part and isn't backed by any evidence. I'm wrong a lot of the time and I've been known to have my mind changed by a reasonable sound argument based on verifiable facts. Problem is in arguing with the People's Radio types there never is any reasonable sound fact based arguments, only attacks.

As for my social agenda, I have none other than calling it like I see it. I will take on the People's Radio types of the world wherever they rear their heads, because bullies will continue to bully until someone calls them on it.
by of the "truth."
Monday Nov 12th, 2007 8:53 PM
And who made an issue of other people's alleged "Leninism," eh, truthie?

But noooooo, "[n]owhere have [you] said that anyone who disagrees with [you] is wrong."

I'm starting to suspect you're an idiot, who says just anything to smear others, and then just denies as much as you can't continue to crow about (like the alleged "crimes" of people you've smeared as "Leninists").

When will people like you learn that online bulletin boards come with written records of who said what, when?
by Truth Out
Monday Nov 12th, 2007 11:29 PM
If I said "people who disagree with me are wrong", show me where I said it. I didn't so you won't. YOU or someone like you freely admitted to being a Leninist. I called rhetoric like "imperialist" dated Leninist rhetoric and you or one of your People's Radio buds admitted to being a Leninist. It's on the thread. Check it out. Now I disagree with Leninism because it is a proven historical failure and absolute nightmare, that isn't something you just have a difference of opinion with someone about. It's like someone arguing the sun isn't hot. That position is so demonstrably stupid that it doesn't enter the realm of argument. Same with Leninism and all it's offshoots with the mounds of corpses to their credit. It sucked. End of argument. And before you go on about "hey what about the Cherokees or the Timorese and so on." Yeah what was done to them also sucked, but not the point of this discussion. So don't even start.

I'm not beginning to think you're an idiot. I know you're an idiot if you can defend something as F-ed up as Bolshevism, with a record so horrible that it easily gives Nazism a run for it's money.
by imagine that.
Monday Nov 12th, 2007 11:59 PM
You found a Red! A real, live Red! Right here on Independent Media!

Commies on the net! In the station! Under the bed? Check the cornflakes!

Quick, call in HUAC! If, of course, the KKK/American Legion lynch mobs can't be had.

The Legion marched only yesterday, you know. Not quite what they used to be, daresay...

Perhaps you have some better suggestions, Sen. McTruthout? What DO you do with a shameless commie....
by Sen. McTruthout:
Tuesday Nov 13th, 2007 12:09 AM
Above, you wrote, quote:

That many Concerned Listeners have no prior experience in KPFA politics is a point in their favor. It shows they aren't fanatically obsessed and have real lives.

Unquote.

However, you replied to me at 9:39 this morning, and at 7:08 and 11:29 p.m. (in this thread, as well as at 8:21 a.m., and at 7:25 and 11:14 p.m., here: http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2007/11/10/18460002.php ), in an escalating series of anti-"communist" rants worthy of the early 1950s.

"Fanatically obsessed" much? Methinks thou dost protest too much...
by Truth Out
Tuesday Nov 13th, 2007 8:48 AM
Oh I'm having too much fun ripping you people. None of my challenges are being answered, you People's Radio types are arguing in circles. It's been too much fun for me to resist making you people look foolish. If I've briefly entered your wierd world, then so be it. Your problem is you people have obviously been at this for years. That's the real waste of time.
by [you're enjoying yourself]
Tuesday Nov 13th, 2007 1:30 PM
That's all that matters, really. You've been answered repeatedly, but there are none so blind as those who will not see.

Another crate of rope, Attilla?