Embarrassing displays at Nonie Darwish this evening

"If the purpose of a university education is to expose you to new thoughts and ideas..."

That is not the purpose of a university education. Rather, the Bachelor's degree is the new high school diploma, and determines whether one gets a salary or wages, day shift or graveyard, etc. etc. It determines whether one hands one's prospective employer a resume, or if one fills out the form with the pen one forgot to bring, no pencil is not okay.

Almost no one pretends anymore that "the purpose of a university education is to expose you to new thoughts and ideas..." except perhaps to make a rhetorical point. College is about getting your requirements done as quickly as possible so you can graduate in three years while working two or three jobs, caring for your ill parent, and maybe raising some kids-- so you can make more money. The semi-privatization of humanities is already underway, and the social sciences are next to be lumped together so as to be lopped off-- to make more room for requirement classes, business classes, and... oh, yeah, and computer and science classes, so that US business can continue to supply the US armed forces in the manner to which each has become accustomed.

On the other hand, it is quite proper to disrupt the intentional destruction of what is left of the Enlightenment-era university environment. Also, it is more persuasive to say what you think is the proper role of the academy, in the context of the right wing assault on that institution, rather than spew what is functionally reactionary rhetoric, like several of those immediately above your entry have, in defense of the ground preparations for its effective destruction.

I mean, even Hitler believed in "free speech" at first.... for himself and his goons, of course. But then, he only had to win election once. Anyone can say anything, and then later construe it into support for almost any "position." The real question is, what is the effect of your intervention in a bad situation?

Or would that kind of an approach be too analytical and stuff, do you think?

Libertarian is spelled with an "a" where you have that second "e."

Let me recommend a functional dictionary:
http://merriam-webster.com

"On the other hand, it is quite proper to disrupt the intentional destruction of what is left of the Enlightenment-era university environment."

And you would be wrong. Imagine if your group invited a speaker to talk about if the world was flat or if the moon was made of green cheese- you plan, you organize, and them some a**holes interrupt. And they don't interrupt by showing you sattelite photos of the earth from space, or photos of moon rocks. Nothing logical, nothing analytical. They just interrupt. Think the equivilent of a kid having a tantrum cause mom won't buy them candy at the grocery store.

Sorry, dude. Its just not appropriate. The only thing that will get us out of this abyss is actually talking and listening to each other. Anyone who willing shuts down dialog aids and abets fascism.

At least you know how to spell fascism.

And you are wrong, because you utterly ignore the role of this kind of speech in dominant discourse and the manufacture of consent. It is right to resist calls to war!

Another way to look at it is, your right to free speech does not compel me to provide you with a printing press.

Why should I let some warmonger come to my school and advocate the continued destruction by war of some of my friends' countries and cultures of origin?

Why on earth should I not stick up for my friends?

Extra credit: please explain how the speech on the podium is to be "protected," and yet the speech from the floor to be restricted, under your version of "free" speech? Does the principle extend to media consolidation under a Republican-dominated industrial-deregulation regime?

Does your "do unto others" philosophy extend to the War on Iraq?

I agree- its wrong to disrupt a talk.
A few weeks back- at a talk just off campus, the Israel Lobby guys were speaking. If Zionists goons interupted the talk- and you know they wanted to, we woulda screamed bloody murder! We wouldn't have tolerated it- but the point is, none of the Zionists did.
Dont you go telling me that they know how to behave and we don't.
Dont you go telling me it wouldn't have been all over the papers and the IMC and the radio if they had.
So yeah- if you don't believe in free speech for those you despise, you don't believe in it at all. Noam Chomsky said that.

Also, the cloaking the crypto-fascist rhetoric in progressive concerns like saving the womenfolk and the queers is cute, but it wears thin very quickly. In other words, you don't fake concern for other people well.

What isn't so cute, is ignoring other people's points in a debate you started, but just endlessly repeating the same few talking points. That's not intellectual discourse, that's "dittohead" behavior.

What's more, only about 24% of Americans polled, cannot seem to be able to tell the difference. That's called evidence for one's argument, as opposed to the "appeal to authority" i.e. "so-and-so said..."which is of course a logical fallacy.

And we are concerned with the cultivation of reason here.... right?

Who said anything about queers and womenfolk?

So you're alleging that this:
http://books.google.com/books?id=WL1LAAAACAAJ&dq=isbn:1595230319

has nothing to do with this:
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2007/10/23/18455423.php

You allege that, in other words, there is not what Bush I would have characterized as "linkage" between these issues? That Darwish is not speaking on American campuses against islamic civilization in a context?

Well... you said you wanted dialogue. So here's another point of view to counter yours. (Clue: that doesn't mean finding a different kind or type of person to say the same thing that you also say.) For some strange reason, Arabs and Muslims are feeling particularly attacked by Euro-America at this moment in history. What Darwish is doing, is <i>blaming the victims</i>, who are nevertheless not helpless victims. Indeed, they and their friends have something to say when folks like her come to their home towns and campuses to blame them for the wars that have killed so many of their loved ones-- more or less for the crime of being born brown in the proximity of large deposits of petroleum.

You've heard of the war, I take it? Or do you just proceed as if that's not going on in real life, as well?

I was at this event- Nonie darwish made a clear distinction between extremists and moderate Islam.
If people listened- they would have realized that.
She spoke about growing up in a culture of hate that preceded by decades 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq.

Nonie Darwish was born in Cairo, and in the early 1950s moved with her family to Egyptian-occupied Gaza, where her father, Lt.-Gen. Mustafa Hafez, was appointed by president Gamal Abdel Nasser to command Egyptian army intelligence. Hafez founded Palestinian fedayeen units to launch terrorist raids across Israel's southern border. Between 1951 and 1956, the fedayeen killed some 400 Israelis. In July 1956, when Nonie was eight, her father became the IDF's first targeted assassination. He was immediately recognized as a shahid - a martyr for jihad. Nonie eventually graduated from the American University, and later worked as a journalist.

Nonie Darwish's book Now They Call Me Infidel fascinated me, and I remember thinking as I read it that I would love to meet this woman. The opportunity came during her recent visit to Jerusalem to speak at the Feast of Tabernacles.

We began our conversation by talking about her family background.

You attended elementary school in Gaza. What was that like?

In elementary school we learned hatred, vengeance and retaliation; peace was never an option, but a sign of defeat and weakness. Teachers filled our hearts with fear of Jews; that made hatred come easy and terrorism acceptable, even honorable. Looking back, I never heard a peace song in Arabic. All we heard were songs glorifying jihad, martyrdom and winning wars.

In Now They Call Me Infidel, you wrote about the difficulties your mother faced as a widow, even though your father was an Egyptian hero. What was life like for you and your family after he died?

After my father's death, my mother had to face life alone with five children in a culture that respects only families headed by a man. In the 1950s few women drove, and she was called names for buying a car to take us to school.

You've said that you gradually began to question the culture you lived in. Do any specific incidents come to mind that were turning points?

I remember visiting a Christian friend in Cairo during the Friday prayers, and we both heard the verbal attacks on Christians and Jews from the loudspeakers. We heard "May God destroy the infidels and the Jews, the enemies of God…" and believe it or not, if you grow up with cursing prayers, they can sound and feel normal. But my Christian friend looked scared, and I was ashamed. That was when I first realized something was wrong with the way my religion was taught and practiced.

You are very outspoken in your book about the grave consequences of polygamy on women in the Arab culture. Why?

Polygamy has a devastating effect on family dynamics, on the husband/wife relationship and on women's relationships with other women. Many Muslim men have only one wife, but the damage to the wife/husband relationship has already been done in the Muslim marriage contract, in which a man doesn't pledge loyalty to his wife. Besides the name of the bride, the marriage contract has three spaces left blank, to be filled with the names of any other women the man later wishes to marry. Yet in spite of this, a good Muslim woman must accept her destiny under Shari'a law...

How would you describe Shari'a law?

Under Islamic Shari'a law, punishments include flogging, stoning, beheading and amputation of limbs. These are cruel and unusual punishments by Western standards. Leaving Islam is punishable by death. Even if an Islamic state fails to kill an apostate, his death is guaranteed at the hands of a street mob. That makes Islam more than a religion; it's a state, with an elaborate legal system that can put you to death if you leave it. Shari'a guarantees that there is no crossing the "Berlin Wall" of the Muslim state... Amazingly, the majority of Muslim countries don't practice criminal Shari'a simply because they can't stomach it. But family Shari'a law is in every Muslim country. It allows only men the right to an easy divorce, permits up to four wives and allows wife beating. A woman is respected only when she hides her body, face and even her identity.

You've been to Israel several times. In your view, how does it differ from the rest of the Middle East?
Israel really brings hope to the region. Israel is the only country in the Middle East that allows religious freedom. Even though it is the tiniest country in the region, it is not afraid to allow Muslims to have mosques to pray in; it is not afraid to allow Christians all these freedoms. It is really a credit to Judaism that it doesn't have the possessiveness Islam has. You know, it's amazing, with all the land the Muslims have, and all the wealth from oil, and all the armies, that no Arab country is secure in its existence. Why else would 1.2 billion Muslims feel threatened by five million Jews? It says a lot. And I've learned that the fear and hate are by design - of Islam's religious educators, its political leadership and its intellectuals. Hatred for Israel is part of how the Arab world operates. They need an enemy. Because there is so much turmoil inside the Muslim world and no one can really name the reason. Why do we have so much turmoil? Why do we have so much anger? Why do we have such rage in our families? They don't dare say it's because of Shari'a.

You still have family members in Egypt. When did you last see them, and what were your thoughts about life there during your visit?

In August 2001 I visited my birthplace. I was stunned to see how radical Islam had taken over. The level of anger and hate speech was alarming. I saw extreme poverty, pollution, hazardous material and garbage along the Nile. There was high unemployment, inflation and widespread corruption. But when I read the Arab media, all I saw was the bashing of Israel and America. Citizens were unaware of Muslim-against-Muslim atrocities in Iraq, Algeria, Sudan and so forth. I was happy to return to the US on the evening of September 10, 2001.

The next morning, when I saw the second plane hit the Twin Towers, I thought, 'Jihad has come to America.' Muhammad Atta was from Cairo, the same city I came from.
I called several friends in Cairo that day, but they were all in denial and asked me, "How dare you say that Arabs did this? Don't you know this is a Jewish conspiracy?"

Were the people you talked to affiliated with radical Islam?
No, these were not radicals, but ordinary Egyptians, who are otherwise very nice people. I hung up and felt alone and disconnected from my culture of origin. Once again, my people are accusing the Jews of something we know very well that we Arabs have done... I started speaking after 9/11 out of respect for the 3,000 fellow Americans who died that day. I also spoke out of empathy for Israel - a country that deserves our respect and not our hatred. And today I speak out of love for my culture of origin, which is in desperate need of reformation. Arab terrorism is destroying the moral fabric and goodness in Arab culture.

You have written about the role envy plays in the Muslim world, describing it as a root of anti-American and anti-Israel thinking. Can you explain what you mean?

As Muslims we fear the evil eye of others. We call it hasad, which means envy. Unlike Christian teaching, which regards envy as a sin of the person who envies, in Islam envy is viewed as a curse brought upon one person by the evil eye of another. As a result we often see Muslims hide good news or keep their distance. Even giving a compliment is dangerous; it could be taken as a curse. The end result is a population that is extremely distrustful of one another...

Islamists are blinded by envy and can't understand Israel's success. They say it must be due to conspiracy and not merit... They have forgotten that Jewish success is due to a culture that promotes excellence and is blessed with self-discipline, education, dedication and a drive to leave this world a better place. There is no conspiracy there! If Arabs want to compete with Jews, let them do it in the realm of innovation and education, and not by terrorizing and eliminating the opposition. Arab mistakes are blamed on Israel, the West, past injustice or colonialism. Looking at a map of Israel in relationship to the Arab world tells us that Arabs don't need land; they need tolerance. There is no shortage of land. There is a shortage of freedom.

Exactly how do Muslim preachers stir up envy and hatred against non-Muslims?

Non-Muslims are not just cursed, but are often described as nagas, Arabic for "filth." The Times of London reported that Muslim students in Britain are being taught to despise non-Muslims as filth. That is why many Arabs believe that the existence of non-Muslims on Muslim land is a desecration... That is why America's defense of the Muslims against the Serbs, the Afghani Muslims against the Soviet Union, feeding Somali Muslims starved by their own leadership, received no credit in the Muslim world. In fact, the results are just the opposite; the more we try to help stabilize the region, the more we are despised. Muslims do not want to be rescued by infidels. This is a proud culture that is easily shamed by feelings of dependency on non-Muslims.

Besides your book, explain the other work you are doing.

In February 2004, I started an organization called Arabs for Israel. Some criticized the name, claiming it implied a lack of support for Arabs. But to support Israel doesn't mean being anti-Arab. I love my people, but for peace to happen, we need a big leap, a new attitude; forgiveness and compassion. We Arabs need to ask "What can we do?" and not focus on what Israel must do to build trust, respect and peace... Improving living conditions for Arabs is not Israel's responsibility, it is the Arabs' responsibility. And Arab kids don't need hatred, they need hope. They don't need jihad, they need jobs.

So she tailored her rhetoric to the Berkeley crowd. Students watched interviews she's given on television before coming to disrupt her fascist lecture. In those, she explicitly says that ALL muslims are taught to hate america and to want to kill us. I've read her essays on the Arabs for Israel website.....nothing logical, nothing analytical, nothing real. All based on rhetorical points, subjective views, and RACISM! She's nothing but a tool for US imperialism and is cashing in on the profitability of spreading anti-Arab racism during this time of war. Had we been here during WWII, the BCR would be hosting an event on Japanese fascism and probably would have produced some speaker talking about Japanese culture and it's tendencies to produce anti-American fascism. it's the same crap over and over and over again. Propaganda that has real life consequences!!! Look at what happened to Japanese immigrants!!! they were put in concentration camps! Look at what's happening with our Muslim/Arab brothers and sisters....dare they resist this war, or speak out against it, then they're labeled terrorist sympathizers and rounded up. Wake up people! stop trying to hide this racist filth behind the banner of "free speech" and "academic" adventurism! This is FASCISM! simple and easy

Socrates and Glaucon on their way home meet Polemarchus and his gang unexpectedly on the road. Polemarchus: And are you stronger than all these? for if not, you will have to remain where you are. Socrates: May there not be the alternative, I said, that we may persuade you to let us go? Polemarchus: But can you persuade us, if we refuse to listen to you? he said. Certainly not, replied Glaucon. Polemarchus: Then we are not going to listen; of that you may be assured. That's what you see going on at UC Berkeley, home of the Free Speech Movement (FSM), turned now into the No Free Speech Zone. The guy in this video shot yesterday, holding the sign at Sproul Hall Plaza, where the FSM began years ago, is getting a taste of what we all can expect to receive once these Berkeley grads make it out of their cages and onto the general population. It will be Animal Farm in the USA. You can't speak to, much less persuade, someone unwilling to listen. And when there are more of them than of you, you'll be made to go where they tell you to go...like sheep to the slaughter house.

Are you serious????? Have you not read any of her material on her website???? I did. That's why I participated in the protest of this fascist the Berkeley College Republicans invited. Her rantings are the most illogical and subjective statements I've ever seen and have no basis in the real material world. For example, I am of Mexican descent....I could rant on about machismo in my culture and go around on speaking tours and argue that the reconquista is happening and it's our machista culture that breeds that ideology...in some Mexicans more than others, of course,......and hmmm....during this period of great "debate" on immigration some people on one side of the argument might find my rants to be useful....and maybe, just maybe, i could even make them profitable. I could write a book...and maybe title it "and now they call me a gringo" and then the yahoos (like the ones in the suits last night) would get really riled up....maybe they'll run around on the border and "hunt" the reconquistadors...but do I give a crap??? no, i'm standing by my flag, my books, and my bank account. And if some die, then let them die....for they're coming here to reconquer the west......right?????

just a thought....

the reality is that her ridiculous rants have real life consequences...she takes it a step further by professing her alliance and support of American and Zionist "interests and values" that's double speak for American and Zionist imperialism. Not unlike the Nazi's, Horowitz, the College Republicans and their goons like Darwish try to hide their filth behind of the banner of free speech and academic adventurism. But just like the Nazis, those ideas are not ideas shared in a vacuum. Ideas are a call to action. All ideas. So yes, she has the right to say what she wants....only removing her vocal cords would really deprive her of freedom of speech...but I have a right to call her out for what she really is. I have a right to express anti-racist views and overwhelm her racist statements. I didn't tape her mouth shut but I can and will expose her for the tool that she is.

I don't consider 1.2 million Iraqi deaths and 4 million displaced Iraqi civilians pointless. I don't consider the fact that my brother is in Baghdad killing or possibly being killed for the power of the few in the US ruling class..pointless. The lies and fascism she spreads and helps build justifies all of that. So you can take your well-mannered, freedom of speech respecting ideology and stick it. I will not stand idle while these people justify the slaughter of my Arab/Muslim brothers and sisters. Defending them is not to defend terrorism. Defending them is to defend people like you and I. In my view, Osama bin Laden and Nonie Darwish are more alike than different. Two faces of the same coin. On the one side, Darwish, pro-US fascist on the other, bin Laden, anti-US fascist. Both don't deserve a venue to spew their filthy lies. Both in my view, should disappear from the earth, and both spread lies that our society cannot afford to have.

I don’t about Nonie Darwish experience, but Horowitz and zinonists should be be paying her a hefty amount of money. I am an Egyptian American and what Nonie has experienced is in no way close to my own experince in Egypt. The contradictions abound with her claims. She said she lived 30 years under shariaa. Shariaa ? in Egypt under Nasser?. Egypt was then socilaist and religion had a no place in Egypt’s Nasser. She is even confusing herself by saying that when she came to the US, Moslem preachers asked her to wear the Islamic dress when “she never had to wear it in Egypt”. The honor killing story is no way the norm and if it happenes it is more likely in upper Egypt and as a last resort, when the female victim can not marry the purporter for one reason or another, but the last time I checked honor killing was still punishable crime in Egypt though with lesser sentence then other types of murders and applies equally to both men and women. Venezual, Armenia and other southern American countires have lesser sentence for honor crime then Egypt. And about Christain persecuation… Oh yeah like his H.H. Shenouda III the Pope of Copts would really appreciate a woman who allows her employers and friends publically call her father “terrorist” and critises her own culture and country and parrots out Zionist stereotype about Islam, to speak on behalf of the Copts. Yeah …the copts who constitute 15% or so of population of Egypt and control over 40% of its assets are really living a hardship. In corrupt government and society, the copts could not use their wealth to bribe themselves some freedom. Where is Nonie Darwish from Dr Mary Hanna a captain in the US Army Reserves in the Boston area, and a devout Coptic Christian, was recently denied her request for discharge as a conscientious objector. She wanted to leave the US army because she was not comfortable with US wars especially after the death of her father a former Egyptian officer died in 2003. She even offered the US army to pay back her eduction. Again, Mary is a Christain Copt but like most Copts considers her self as Egyptian first. And then there is the story of her father colonel Mustafa Hafaz, why she claims that he died by a explosive device hidden in a book, where in fact it was documented that he was murdered by Isreali unit 101 who threw grendes in houses and sprayed bultets on every one who came out to flee. Maybe it makes the Isreali look better in targeting assissaniting her father then randomly killing a score of people as it happened (see witness account of UN officer at this time named Vagn Bennike). Also, I would love to hear from her about her Egyptian Christain sweet heart that she abondaned her family to marry and moved to the US but were divorced in less of one year. He must have converted to Islam. I know of Nonie’s three sisters and I know that they are all married to respectable husbands living in Egypt as good respectable citizens, the question is why Nonie is doing that to them?, why is she doing that to the name of his father who made the ultimate scarfice for his country?. Why is she steadfast in attacking Islam and the Arabs, demonizing the Palestains in every way and not even find anything in the Isreali is worthy to be critical of?.