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The Left's Response to the French Riots
Why The Left has been so slow to respond to the French riots.
November 7 - So, France is burning. “The People” (in this case “The People” happen to actually be those that The Left oh so much enjoys claiming to speak for,) are rising up in an insurgency against racism, the police, the state, capitalism, etc. and, predictably, the response from the political left has been mediocre at best.
During the first few nights, the main response of The Left was to ignore the whole thing. With a few exceptions, much of The Left completely ignored the events in France. The events in Clichy-Sous-Bois are not controlled, inspired or organized by The Left, therefore The Left has little to gain from them. There are no consensus based meetings to decide what needs to be done, what committees should to be set up, what demands should be made, and who should become spokespersons. There is no need for any of these things. Everyone taking part in the riots knows what they want. Go to any ghetto of the world and ask the people what they want, and the answers will be the same as those of Clichy-Sous-Bois. There is no need to beg the government to fix things (AKA making demands.) Only the most profound moron would not realize what has led to the rioting. There is no need for statements, proclamations or letters of solidarity. The best form of solidarity possible is being shown in Marseille, Saint Etienne, Toulouse and the 300 other towns to which the rioting has spread. There are now reports that Germany and Belgium are starting to experience this same kind of unrest.
The rioters have no need of The Left. That is why The Left ignored the rioters. We all know that the only thing left-wing politicians care about is the exact same thing that right-wing politicians care about; power. It is often ignored that the same can be said of leftist political organizations. While individuals within these organizations may mean well, the organizations soon take a mind of their own. Like a corporation, whose only goal is to make profit, the only goal of these political organizations is to gain power. The claim being that power is needed to change the world. But all too soon, changing the world becomes secondary to building power.
As the days went by, and the riots spread, The Left was finally forced to say something about the riots. The only problem is The Left has no influence, let alone power over the rioters of France. If anything the power of The Left is just as much threatened by these riots as the power of The Right. These riots are showing that the people do not need bureaucratic political organizations to revolt. It is then no surprise that the Communist Party is doing it’s best to stifle events it cannot control, just like it did with the events of May 1968. “Lacking a political analysis (…) some young people are reduced to committing unacceptable attacks against the peace, the safety and the property of people who work for a living.”* (the left wing of the “CP” – the PRCF.) Leave it to the Communist Party to claim these riots are an attack on the working class. While thankfully the anarchist organizations are not as ridiculous as the CP, they too seem to be more concerned with moving the rioters into an area of struggle which the anarchist organizations would be able to at least influence. The CNT-FTE demands “more justice. In practical terms, this means secure jobs, decent wages, humane working-hours for the parents, adequate housing, an end to counter-productive police repression, necessary and adequate social services, and a truly libratory school system. This is how we suggest our colleagues and the parents of our students struggle.”* France is in a state of insurgent activity and the CNT-FTE is telling people they should beg for reforms and bread-crumbs from the government? Begging the government for reforms is something the CNT-FTE can influence and control. They can help create committees, have meetings, send representatives to meet with government officials, and other forms of bureaucracy that make their political organization a little more influential and a little more powerful, while boring to death everyone involved. The anarchist CNT-AIT is yet another example of an organization looking only to gain power for itself. They can hope for nothing more than “once the pressure lessens, this rebellion should organize itself, give itself a structure.”* The CNT-AIT no doubt providing this structure. We can see the inner struggle facing these organizations. How can they balance out their need for power with their claims of fighting for “The People”? And what if “The People” do not need these organizations?
Every day acts of insurgency are taking places throughout the world, and very rarely if ever do these acts have anything to do with bureaucratic political organizations. In these actions against capitalism, authority and oppression people are taking power over their own lives. Burning an SUV, either as a lone Earth Liberation Front action, or in the middle of a riot in the French suburbs these insurgents are showing they have as much need for the political Left as they do the political Right.
While the organizationalists of the world are sitting in their boring meetings trying to decide how best to enlarge their bureaucracies, everyday rebellions are happening throughout the world. The insurgency in France has been going on too long and has spread to an area too large to be ignored. The question that The Left is now asking itself is how it can take control of these events away from the rioters and use it to enlarge itself? The answer is it can’t. These acts of insurgence have nothing to do with the organizational Left. That is why the response of the Left has been so dismal.
--the black mole--
*All quotes stolen from http://sketchythoughts.blogspot.com/
During the first few nights, the main response of The Left was to ignore the whole thing. With a few exceptions, much of The Left completely ignored the events in France. The events in Clichy-Sous-Bois are not controlled, inspired or organized by The Left, therefore The Left has little to gain from them. There are no consensus based meetings to decide what needs to be done, what committees should to be set up, what demands should be made, and who should become spokespersons. There is no need for any of these things. Everyone taking part in the riots knows what they want. Go to any ghetto of the world and ask the people what they want, and the answers will be the same as those of Clichy-Sous-Bois. There is no need to beg the government to fix things (AKA making demands.) Only the most profound moron would not realize what has led to the rioting. There is no need for statements, proclamations or letters of solidarity. The best form of solidarity possible is being shown in Marseille, Saint Etienne, Toulouse and the 300 other towns to which the rioting has spread. There are now reports that Germany and Belgium are starting to experience this same kind of unrest.
The rioters have no need of The Left. That is why The Left ignored the rioters. We all know that the only thing left-wing politicians care about is the exact same thing that right-wing politicians care about; power. It is often ignored that the same can be said of leftist political organizations. While individuals within these organizations may mean well, the organizations soon take a mind of their own. Like a corporation, whose only goal is to make profit, the only goal of these political organizations is to gain power. The claim being that power is needed to change the world. But all too soon, changing the world becomes secondary to building power.
As the days went by, and the riots spread, The Left was finally forced to say something about the riots. The only problem is The Left has no influence, let alone power over the rioters of France. If anything the power of The Left is just as much threatened by these riots as the power of The Right. These riots are showing that the people do not need bureaucratic political organizations to revolt. It is then no surprise that the Communist Party is doing it’s best to stifle events it cannot control, just like it did with the events of May 1968. “Lacking a political analysis (…) some young people are reduced to committing unacceptable attacks against the peace, the safety and the property of people who work for a living.”* (the left wing of the “CP” – the PRCF.) Leave it to the Communist Party to claim these riots are an attack on the working class. While thankfully the anarchist organizations are not as ridiculous as the CP, they too seem to be more concerned with moving the rioters into an area of struggle which the anarchist organizations would be able to at least influence. The CNT-FTE demands “more justice. In practical terms, this means secure jobs, decent wages, humane working-hours for the parents, adequate housing, an end to counter-productive police repression, necessary and adequate social services, and a truly libratory school system. This is how we suggest our colleagues and the parents of our students struggle.”* France is in a state of insurgent activity and the CNT-FTE is telling people they should beg for reforms and bread-crumbs from the government? Begging the government for reforms is something the CNT-FTE can influence and control. They can help create committees, have meetings, send representatives to meet with government officials, and other forms of bureaucracy that make their political organization a little more influential and a little more powerful, while boring to death everyone involved. The anarchist CNT-AIT is yet another example of an organization looking only to gain power for itself. They can hope for nothing more than “once the pressure lessens, this rebellion should organize itself, give itself a structure.”* The CNT-AIT no doubt providing this structure. We can see the inner struggle facing these organizations. How can they balance out their need for power with their claims of fighting for “The People”? And what if “The People” do not need these organizations?
Every day acts of insurgency are taking places throughout the world, and very rarely if ever do these acts have anything to do with bureaucratic political organizations. In these actions against capitalism, authority and oppression people are taking power over their own lives. Burning an SUV, either as a lone Earth Liberation Front action, or in the middle of a riot in the French suburbs these insurgents are showing they have as much need for the political Left as they do the political Right.
While the organizationalists of the world are sitting in their boring meetings trying to decide how best to enlarge their bureaucracies, everyday rebellions are happening throughout the world. The insurgency in France has been going on too long and has spread to an area too large to be ignored. The question that The Left is now asking itself is how it can take control of these events away from the rioters and use it to enlarge itself? The answer is it can’t. These acts of insurgence have nothing to do with the organizational Left. That is why the response of the Left has been so dismal.
--the black mole--
*All quotes stolen from http://sketchythoughts.blogspot.com/
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Yes the anarcho-primitivists try parasite their ideology onto the insurrection. I
Ironic how pro-Israeli as well as Saudi-controlled Islamic fundamentalist media are actually (for once) BOTH 100% aligned with the official Neocon talking points coming from Washington: I happen to know France fairly well and the truth is that the so-called “North-African riots all around the French capital” are just minor incidents involving a handful of disaffected Muslim teenagers…
This factual reality seems to have evaded the Jerusalem Post and Al-Arabbya’s highly imaginative journalists: why bother with boring facts when you can serve the colorful anti-Gallic clichés cooked by Dick Cheney and his Wahhabi friend/business partner-in-crime Prince Bandar Ibn-Saud??
First, one has to put things into perspective: in 12 days of so-called “massive Islamic rioting across France” we’ve had less material damage not to mention what US experts call the “body counts” than say the 2001 Cincinnati riots (20 African Americans quickly terminated Schwarzenegger style) or the 1992 South Central LA uprising with more than 60 “niggers” executed on the spot- recall: President George H.W. Bush spoke to the nation, denouncing "random terror and lawlessness" as US Marines massacred their way into the remnants of the Black ghetto
See Wikipedia article below for more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots
So why the double standard for France where we’ve had to deplore a single casualty in 12 days of so-called “North African revolt”?
At a time when the Washington Post, the Jerusalem Post and Al-‘Arabbyia are all jumping on the anti-Gallic bandwagon, we have to keep in mind that the French government is currently confronted with a primarily social and economic malaise, NOT some kind of Apocalyptic Mohammedan “grand soir” as the likes of Dick Cheney, Usama Bin Laden and the unholy Neo-conservative cum old Islamic fundamentalist alliance would like us to believe.
In French, poor suburbs with Soviet-style housing for Moorish immigrants and their children are generically called “La Banlieue” a medieval Gallic word which literally means “the place where the banned and the untouchables dwell”
Dr Victorino de la Vega
Chair of the Thomas More Center for Middle East Studies
http://www.mideastmemo.blogspot.com/
This factual reality seems to have evaded the Jerusalem Post and Al-Arabbya’s highly imaginative journalists: why bother with boring facts when you can serve the colorful anti-Gallic clichés cooked by Dick Cheney and his Wahhabi friend/business partner-in-crime Prince Bandar Ibn-Saud??
First, one has to put things into perspective: in 12 days of so-called “massive Islamic rioting across France” we’ve had less material damage not to mention what US experts call the “body counts” than say the 2001 Cincinnati riots (20 African Americans quickly terminated Schwarzenegger style) or the 1992 South Central LA uprising with more than 60 “niggers” executed on the spot- recall: President George H.W. Bush spoke to the nation, denouncing "random terror and lawlessness" as US Marines massacred their way into the remnants of the Black ghetto
See Wikipedia article below for more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots
So why the double standard for France where we’ve had to deplore a single casualty in 12 days of so-called “North African revolt”?
At a time when the Washington Post, the Jerusalem Post and Al-‘Arabbyia are all jumping on the anti-Gallic bandwagon, we have to keep in mind that the French government is currently confronted with a primarily social and economic malaise, NOT some kind of Apocalyptic Mohammedan “grand soir” as the likes of Dick Cheney, Usama Bin Laden and the unholy Neo-conservative cum old Islamic fundamentalist alliance would like us to believe.
In French, poor suburbs with Soviet-style housing for Moorish immigrants and their children are generically called “La Banlieue” a medieval Gallic word which literally means “the place where the banned and the untouchables dwell”
Dr Victorino de la Vega
Chair of the Thomas More Center for Middle East Studies
http://www.mideastmemo.blogspot.com/
For more information:
http://www.mideastmemo.blogspot.com/
It feels a little awkward to be throwing down about a country I've never been to, but in any case...
In my opinion, the left should either be joining the rioters *in support,* or offering their support Zapatista style. Anything else is half-stepping.
What worries me about post-left organizing is that we'll end up shifting to the right without even knowing it -- but even so, what is going on right now clearly isn't working.
In my opinion, the left should either be joining the rioters *in support,* or offering their support Zapatista style. Anything else is half-stepping.
What worries me about post-left organizing is that we'll end up shifting to the right without even knowing it -- but even so, what is going on right now clearly isn't working.
"During the first few nights, the main response of The Left was to ignore the whole thing." Nice Assertion, try giving the reader some facts. Which "left" are you talking about. The Greens? The socialists? The CP? The Lutte Ouvriere? The Ligue Comunist Revolutinaire?
Try facts not assertions!
Try facts not assertions!
"During the first few nights, the main response of The Left was to ignore the whole thing." Nice Assertion, try giving the reader some facts. Which "left" are you talking about. The Greens? The socialists? The CP? The Lutte Ouvriere? The Ligue Comunist Revolutinaire?
Try facts not assertions!
Try facts not assertions!
If you read up on this, you'll find that there was a tendency to discount the rioters as misguided, pro-islamicist, and so on. It seems to be shifting -- but still, the most strongly worded support is mostly coming from anarchists and MLM groups, interestingly enough, both of whom have fairly strong criticisms of a large portion of the left, and as such, don't tend to view themselves as part of the liberal/progressive/democratic socialist movement which dominates much of left discourse.
I think the overarching point that this person is making is valid -- most of the left tends to look to protests, non-profits and petitions as the primary organizational structures, at least in the US. I have to confess some degree of ignorance as to the intricacies of French left organizing, but overall that there's been as much criticism as there has been acknowledgement or support.
Primary sources: http://sketchythoughts.blogspot.com/, as well as Yahoo news and wsws.org.
I think the overarching point that this person is making is valid -- most of the left tends to look to protests, non-profits and petitions as the primary organizational structures, at least in the US. I have to confess some degree of ignorance as to the intricacies of French left organizing, but overall that there's been as much criticism as there has been acknowledgement or support.
Primary sources: http://sketchythoughts.blogspot.com/, as well as Yahoo news and wsws.org.
i just got back from st etienne just days before the riots started where the arab kids that are being accused of the riots do indeed kick it with cnt members and anarchists, so were you got the idea that the cnt and immigrants have nothing in common is pathetic have you been there ?
i know for a fact that the only places that communicate with these kids are in fact anarchist centers/squats/unions.
i know for a fact that the only places that communicate with these kids are in fact anarchist centers/squats/unions.
>CNT kicking it with the youth
OK...but can you respond to this? Keep in mind that I've never been to France, so I'm here to learn, not to judge.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/nov2005/lcr-n08.shtml
OK...but can you respond to this? Keep in mind that I've never been to France, so I'm here to learn, not to judge.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/nov2005/lcr-n08.shtml
For more information:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/nov2005/...
OK, enough is enough.
It's clear France is no longer in control of its population.
It's clear millions within its borders are struggling for freedom and independence.
It's clear that these people are not rioting for the sake of rioting, they are responding to oppression from French authorities.
It's clear that their uprising cannot be met with state violence, because that would only lead to a cycle of violence.
It's clear that these freedom-fighters, whom I have dubbed "Paristinians" want a state of their own.
It's clear that the international community must force France to the negotiating table with these freedom fighters to begin the peace process that will inevitably lead to the creation of an autonomous, independent state of "Paristine."
If it's good enough for Israel, it's good enough for the French surrender monkeys who have been leaders of the global movement to force the Jewish state into appeasement of terrorists.
We've got to stop referring to this "intifada" in France as "riots." This is a movement for self-determination. This is a movement for independence.
This is a movement for freedom from imperialism.
The analogy is apt.
That's not "Frere Jacques" they're singing in France. It's "Fire Jacques."
The president of France can see the cinder in the eye of others, but is missing the beam in his own.
What's good for the goose liver is good for the gander liver.
The chicken cordon bleu has come home to roost.
It's time for France to stop the hypocrisy.
It's time for the French to take a dose of the medicine they have been handing out to the Jews of Israel.
It's time to end the apartheid within its population. It's time for France to stop treating those poor, Muslim immigrants as second-class citizens. It's time to accept the only permanent solution that can address the root
problem in French society . the recognition of the Paristinians as a legitimate negotiating partner.
Enough rubber bullets!
Enough police repression!
Enough calls for restraint!
Enough with the threats!
Before this cycle of violence spreads throughout all of Europe, France needs to do the right thing.
The French have been speaking out of both sides of their mouths for too
long. They've been speaking out of both of their nostrils for too long, too. If appeasement was the solution in Iraq, it's the solution for the "Paristinian" revolt. If appeasement was the solution for Hitler, it's the solution for the "Paristinian" revolt. If appeasement was the solution for
Israel in dealing with its "Palestinian" problem, it's the solution for France's "Paristinian" uprising.
As I mentioned yesterday in my column, if France has these kinds of systemic problems with its Muslim population, then it is time to partition
France. It's time for an independent Muslim state to be created. After all, isn't that what France and other European nations have determined is the proper solution for Israel?
These are not just riots. This is an intifada . just like the one begun in 2000 within and around Israel.
France and other countries, including the United States, have demanded that Israel meet those attacks with land concessions to the rioters and suicide bombers. That is the only viable, long-term solution, they say.
They claim this violence will never cease until those oppressed by Israel
are granted an independent, autonomous state of their own.
Why should the solution be any different in France?
Stop the violence! Now . not at a snail's pace. The time has come to begin talks with the "Paristinians" about their own future homeland of "Paristine."
It's clear France is no longer in control of its population.
It's clear millions within its borders are struggling for freedom and independence.
It's clear that these people are not rioting for the sake of rioting, they are responding to oppression from French authorities.
It's clear that their uprising cannot be met with state violence, because that would only lead to a cycle of violence.
It's clear that these freedom-fighters, whom I have dubbed "Paristinians" want a state of their own.
It's clear that the international community must force France to the negotiating table with these freedom fighters to begin the peace process that will inevitably lead to the creation of an autonomous, independent state of "Paristine."
If it's good enough for Israel, it's good enough for the French surrender monkeys who have been leaders of the global movement to force the Jewish state into appeasement of terrorists.
We've got to stop referring to this "intifada" in France as "riots." This is a movement for self-determination. This is a movement for independence.
This is a movement for freedom from imperialism.
The analogy is apt.
That's not "Frere Jacques" they're singing in France. It's "Fire Jacques."
The president of France can see the cinder in the eye of others, but is missing the beam in his own.
What's good for the goose liver is good for the gander liver.
The chicken cordon bleu has come home to roost.
It's time for France to stop the hypocrisy.
It's time for the French to take a dose of the medicine they have been handing out to the Jews of Israel.
It's time to end the apartheid within its population. It's time for France to stop treating those poor, Muslim immigrants as second-class citizens. It's time to accept the only permanent solution that can address the root
problem in French society . the recognition of the Paristinians as a legitimate negotiating partner.
Enough rubber bullets!
Enough police repression!
Enough calls for restraint!
Enough with the threats!
Before this cycle of violence spreads throughout all of Europe, France needs to do the right thing.
The French have been speaking out of both sides of their mouths for too
long. They've been speaking out of both of their nostrils for too long, too. If appeasement was the solution in Iraq, it's the solution for the "Paristinian" revolt. If appeasement was the solution for Hitler, it's the solution for the "Paristinian" revolt. If appeasement was the solution for
Israel in dealing with its "Palestinian" problem, it's the solution for France's "Paristinian" uprising.
As I mentioned yesterday in my column, if France has these kinds of systemic problems with its Muslim population, then it is time to partition
France. It's time for an independent Muslim state to be created. After all, isn't that what France and other European nations have determined is the proper solution for Israel?
These are not just riots. This is an intifada . just like the one begun in 2000 within and around Israel.
France and other countries, including the United States, have demanded that Israel meet those attacks with land concessions to the rioters and suicide bombers. That is the only viable, long-term solution, they say.
They claim this violence will never cease until those oppressed by Israel
are granted an independent, autonomous state of their own.
Why should the solution be any different in France?
Stop the violence! Now . not at a snail's pace. The time has come to begin talks with the "Paristinians" about their own future homeland of "Paristine."
cute, but bad analogy
the riots in France are the response of relatively recent migrants to societal and economic neglect by longer-term native majority
the intifada in Israel is a response of majority natives to neglect and abuse by relatively recent migrants who are the minority and now run the area through force of arms
big difference
the riots in France are the response of relatively recent migrants to societal and economic neglect by longer-term native majority
the intifada in Israel is a response of majority natives to neglect and abuse by relatively recent migrants who are the minority and now run the area through force of arms
big difference
Has an intifada begun in France — an all-out jihad? Are the French facing what is by now, as the riots are well into their second week and have engulfed virtually the entire country, a full-scale insurrection from immigrant youth who simply resent being marginalized and shunted to the fringes of French society? Or does the unrest have something to do with the agenda of jihadists worldwide? As is becoming increasingly well known, Osama bin Laden and others all over the world want to unify the Islamic world under a restored caliphate, reestablish the rule of Islamic law, and extend the hegemony of that law, Sharia, to the rest of the world also. Does that play any role in the French riots?
Evidence so far is somewhat sketchy. Mainstream media reports have centered on the rioters’ economic and cultural marginalization. “Theirs,” laments AP, “is a drab life of days spent smoking hashish, hanging out on street corners.” An 18-year-old named Ahmed complains: “You wear these clothes, with this color skin and you’re automatically a target for police.” Some analysts, indulging in various degrees of schadenfreude, have alleged that France’s ingrained racism, snobbery toward outsiders, and mistreatment of Muslim immigrants are responsible for the riots.
Yet the horror stories detailing this mistreatment that are now filling the news do not entirely ring true. France has not neglected its sizable Muslim minority. Not too long ago it established an official organization to oversee French Islam, the French Council for the Muslim Religion (CFCM), and has even discussed revising France’s secular laws to allow the government to fund mosques in France, in order to wean them away from “extremist” foreign influences.
Nor have Muslims been marginalized in French public life. Dalil Boubakeur, leader of the CFCM and imam of the Paris mosque, enjoys high visibility. After the French government announced plans to expel jihadist imams from France in May 2004, then-Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin told Boubakeur that he wanted to “reassure the Muslim community” of “his willingness to treat it as he treats other faiths.” Boubakeur explained that as far as Raffarin was concerned, “there is no lumping together of the expulsion of imams and the Muslim community in general.” When two French journalists were kidnapped in Iraq in August 2004, then-Interior Minister (and current Prime Minister) Dominique de Villepin went to Boubakeur’s mosque to join Muslims in prayer for their release — and drew applause when he spoke of the unity between non-Muslims and Muslims in France.
De Villepin’s mosque visit was emblematic of France’s ongoing efforts to make its Muslim population feel included, loved, and French — efforts they are now being universally excoriated for not having made. And there are several indications that the riots are not wholly or solely about economic and social marginalization at all, and that the Islamic jihad agenda is a significant element fueling their continuing spread:
• It has long been established that there is a significant jihadist presence among French Muslims. Recently six Muslims in Paris were arrested for recruiting for the jihad in Iraq.
• The rioters have been shouting the jihad battle cry, “Allahu akbar.” As Muhammad Atta wrote in his final exhortation to himself, “When the confrontation begins, strike like champions who do not want to go back to this world. Shout, ‘Allahu Akbar,’ because this strikes fear in the hearts of the non-believers.” While the mainstream media continues to identify the rioters as “French-born youths of Arab or African origin, many of them Muslim,” in fact the Islamic identity of the rioters is quite clear: rioters have avoided Muslim-owned businesses, preferring obviously non-Muslim targets.
• The rioters have thrown Molotov cocktails at two French synagogues, making it likely that they subscribe to the deeply rooted hatred of Jews that so many jihadists share. They have also set two churches on fire, further reinforcing the impression that they view their struggle as fundamentally religious, and consider the terrorizing of Jews and Christians to be part of their religious responsibility, in accord with Qur’an 9:29, which directs Muslims to wage war even against “the People of the Book”: the Qur’an’s term for — primarily — Jews and Christians.
• Mouloud Dahmani is a Muslim leader in France who is trying to prevail upon the French to allow for a group of Muslim Brotherhood sheikhs to negotiate an end to the riots. The Muslim Brotherhood, of course, is the first modern Islamic jihad organization and the direct forefather of Hamas and Al-Qaeda. Dahmani has declared: “All we demand is to be left alone.” This is a strange statement coming from the leader of a community that resents being marginalized and longs to enter the mainstream of French society. Left alone? Quite literally. Journalist Amir Taheri says that the Muslims in France are not actually interested in assimilation at all; rather, they want autonomy: “Some are even calling for the areas where Muslims form a majority of the population to be reorganized on the basis of the ‘millet’ system of the Ottoman Empire: Each religious community (millet) would enjoy the right to organize its social, cultural and educational life in accordance with its religious beliefs.” He reports that “in parts of France, a de facto millet system is already in place.” Muslim leaders control the area and French officials, including police, simply do not enter.
• Postings on Muslim weblogs indicate that the riots are not spontaneous outpourings of rage, but carefully planned endeavors. Some revealed not only the planning involved in the riots, which have now swept all across France and have spread also to Denmark, Belgium and Germany, but also the Islamic supremacist goal behind them. One wrote: “The cops are petrified of us, everything must burn, starting Monday, the operation ‘Midnight Sun’ starts, tell everyone else, rendezvous for Momo and Abdul in Zone 4 ... jihad Islamia Allah Akhbar.” Another added: “You don’t really think that we’re going to stop now? Are you stupid? It will continue, non-stop. We aren’t going to let up. The French won’t do anything and soon, we will be in the majority here.”
Meanwhile, the Union for Islamic Organizations of France, which has ties to the Muslim Brotherhood, has issued a fatwa declaring: “It is formally forbidden to any Muslim seeking divine grace and satisfaction to participate in any action that blindly hits private or public property or could constitute an attack on someone’s life.” There is a strange ambiguity in this, recalling that of the CAIR-backed American fatwa condemning attacks on innocent civilians without defining “innocent”: what constitutes attacking “blindly”? Is a focused, targeted attack somehow acceptable?
The time for such ambiguity is long past. And indeed, lines are being drawn everywhere.
you propose walling off all Muslim peoples? keeping them inside the walls with brute force?
the world as one big giant Israel?
nice
the world as one big giant Israel?
nice
"migrants to societal and economic neglect by longer-term native majority "
Most deteinees who have already been tried and convicted are under 16. Were they unemployeed?
Are you justifying the murder of an elderly person, the stonning of a 13-year-old child, the burning of a disabled women, the burning of shops, schools, cars, synagogues, churches and other buildings to the ground?
Most deteinees who have already been tried and convicted are under 16. Were they unemployeed?
Are you justifying the murder of an elderly person, the stonning of a 13-year-old child, the burning of a disabled women, the burning of shops, schools, cars, synagogues, churches and other buildings to the ground?
Mistake on my previous post
The stonned child was 13-months-old.
The stonned child was 13-months-old.
"the intifada in Israel is a response of majority natives to neglect and abuse by relatively recent migrants who are the minority and now run the area through force of arms"
Yeah right, sir knight. Never mind that
1. the Palis number about 2.5 million compared to about 5,260,000 Israeli Jews.
2. Upwards of 50% of Israeli Jews aren't "relatively recent migrants" but rather either native or longtime inhabitants.
Yeah right, sir knight. Never mind that
1. the Palis number about 2.5 million compared to about 5,260,000 Israeli Jews.
2. Upwards of 50% of Israeli Jews aren't "relatively recent migrants" but rather either native or longtime inhabitants.
"the stonning of a 13-year-old child"
There are enough 13 year olds in the US getting stoned it seems silly to try to use it to bash people in France.
There are enough 13 year olds in the US getting stoned it seems silly to try to use it to bash people in France.
Its weird to see so many proIsrael people parroting the talk of the neoFascist parties in Europe but its actually not that new a phenomena:
"Le Pen's main campaign theme involves expelling millions of immigrants from France. Most of these immigrants are Muslims from North Africa who are anti-Jewish, anti-Israel, and pro-Palestinian. Their growing strength is fueling an increasingly strident outcry in France and in other European nations against Jews and Israel. Some commentators attribute Europe's stance of not supporting Israel against the Palestinians as a product of this mass immigration of Muslims to France and other European nations."
http://www.newnation.org/Millard/Millard-LePen-The-Savior.html
Or note this in a National Review article by Jonah Goldberg:
"But, you know, there is something about the guy I kind of like. I can't quite put my finger on it. It's not his hair. Or even his old-world way of talking…it's…oh, wait, I know what it is: He makes the fern-waterers water their plants from the inside out...."
http://www.nationalreview.com/goldberg/goldberg042602.asp
"Le Pen's main campaign theme involves expelling millions of immigrants from France. Most of these immigrants are Muslims from North Africa who are anti-Jewish, anti-Israel, and pro-Palestinian. Their growing strength is fueling an increasingly strident outcry in France and in other European nations against Jews and Israel. Some commentators attribute Europe's stance of not supporting Israel against the Palestinians as a product of this mass immigration of Muslims to France and other European nations."
http://www.newnation.org/Millard/Millard-LePen-The-Savior.html
Or note this in a National Review article by Jonah Goldberg:
"But, you know, there is something about the guy I kind of like. I can't quite put my finger on it. It's not his hair. Or even his old-world way of talking…it's…oh, wait, I know what it is: He makes the fern-waterers water their plants from the inside out...."
http://www.nationalreview.com/goldberg/goldberg042602.asp
It was a mistake. Please read my other post: he was 13-month-old". Is it normal for 13-year-old American children to get stoned?
"Le Pen's main campaign theme involves expelling millions of immigrants from France"
Right. He wanted to expel illegal immigrants, mainly Muslim. And did you know that he had many Muslim supporters?
Right. He wanted to expel illegal immigrants, mainly Muslim. And did you know that he had many Muslim supporters?
According to this table from a Jewish source
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/demograhics.html
non-Jews accounted for 92% of Palestine's population in 1890, 89% in 1922, and 69% in 1945
According to this table, the present five-million-some figure represents a doubling of the Jewish population in only 34 years
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/demographics.html
This pie chart shows that only 29% of present-day Israelis are of native birth
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/origingraph.html
"here's why's" historical argument would therefore appear to be absolutely correct, while "faulty's" lies and distortions prove once again that the zionists' contempt for 1) truth and 2) your intelligence has absolutely no limit
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/demograhics.html
non-Jews accounted for 92% of Palestine's population in 1890, 89% in 1922, and 69% in 1945
According to this table, the present five-million-some figure represents a doubling of the Jewish population in only 34 years
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/demographics.html
This pie chart shows that only 29% of present-day Israelis are of native birth
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/origingraph.html
"here's why's" historical argument would therefore appear to be absolutely correct, while "faulty's" lies and distortions prove once again that the zionists' contempt for 1) truth and 2) your intelligence has absolutely no limit
"Its weird to see so many proIsrael people parroting the talk of the neoFascist parties in Europe but its actually not that new a phenomena"
It's not new AT ALL. Fascists and zionists have been in bed with each other for as long as either has existed
http://www.marxists.de/middleast/ironwall/
It's not new AT ALL. Fascists and zionists have been in bed with each other for as long as either has existed
http://www.marxists.de/middleast/ironwall/
back in the day, the early 1980s:
http://www.marxists.de/middleast/ironwall/14-shatsab.htm#arm
[Israel is now the world’s seventh largest arms exporter and its customers form a Who’s Who of the world’s right wing. According to the SIPRI Yearbook 1980, published by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (whose statistics are for the late 1970s), Israel’s leading customer was South Africa, followed by Argentina and then El Salvador. [13] Additional customers now include Haiti, Guatemala, Honduras, Costa Rica, Chile, Zaire, Taiwan and the Philippines. A special case is Iran, which is officially intensely anti-Zionist, but which Israel has armed so that it could continue its war against Iraq. [14] It must be fully understood that Israel began its role as an arsenal for world reaction under the Labour Alignment, and will continue as such under any succeeding administration. Indeed, it can be said with certainty, that only the defeat of Zionism will end its arms traffic. However, under Begin all concern about world opinion vanished and, in fact, under the Likud, Israeli politicians openly talk of Israel’s role as an American proxy. Minister Yaakov Meridor, Begin’s predecessor as the Irgun’s commander, said in Ha’Aretz (25 August 1981):
We will say to the Americans; don’t compete with us in Taiwan, don’t compete with us in South Africa, don’t compete with us in the Caribbean or in other places where you cannot sell arms directly. Let us do it. You will sell ammunition and equipment through an intermediary. Israel will be your intermediary. [15]
By all indications, South Africa is Israel’s second most important ally, after the US. Sometime after Begin came to power, South African Foreign Minister Reolof Botha paid a visit to Israel, which was reported in the Christian Science Monitor on 7 September 1977. Thence forward such visits have been quite public. In February 1978, Finance Minister Simcha Ehrlich visited Pretoria and Ha’Aretz reported (7 February) that Israel would act as a way station for South African goods which would thereby enter the EEC and the US as Israeli made, thus beating the boycott against the apartheid regime. [16] ]
--Richard
http://www.marxists.de/middleast/ironwall/14-shatsab.htm#arm
[Israel is now the world’s seventh largest arms exporter and its customers form a Who’s Who of the world’s right wing. According to the SIPRI Yearbook 1980, published by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (whose statistics are for the late 1970s), Israel’s leading customer was South Africa, followed by Argentina and then El Salvador. [13] Additional customers now include Haiti, Guatemala, Honduras, Costa Rica, Chile, Zaire, Taiwan and the Philippines. A special case is Iran, which is officially intensely anti-Zionist, but which Israel has armed so that it could continue its war against Iraq. [14] It must be fully understood that Israel began its role as an arsenal for world reaction under the Labour Alignment, and will continue as such under any succeeding administration. Indeed, it can be said with certainty, that only the defeat of Zionism will end its arms traffic. However, under Begin all concern about world opinion vanished and, in fact, under the Likud, Israeli politicians openly talk of Israel’s role as an American proxy. Minister Yaakov Meridor, Begin’s predecessor as the Irgun’s commander, said in Ha’Aretz (25 August 1981):
We will say to the Americans; don’t compete with us in Taiwan, don’t compete with us in South Africa, don’t compete with us in the Caribbean or in other places where you cannot sell arms directly. Let us do it. You will sell ammunition and equipment through an intermediary. Israel will be your intermediary. [15]
By all indications, South Africa is Israel’s second most important ally, after the US. Sometime after Begin came to power, South African Foreign Minister Reolof Botha paid a visit to Israel, which was reported in the Christian Science Monitor on 7 September 1977. Thence forward such visits have been quite public. In February 1978, Finance Minister Simcha Ehrlich visited Pretoria and Ha’Aretz reported (7 February) that Israel would act as a way station for South African goods which would thereby enter the EEC and the US as Israeli made, thus beating the boycott against the apartheid regime. [16] ]
--Richard
The pie chart on http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/origingraph.html does not disprive my contention from before that more than 50% of Israeli Jews are either natives or longtime residents in Israel. "Origin" doesn't translate into "newly arrived migrant" as you'd like it to. Poor thing, sir knight.
Your other source, http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/demographics.html, shows that the percentage of native Israeli Jews nearly doubled from 1960 through 2004. Far from disproving my claim, it appears to confirm it if anything.
Evidently you're reading into that pie chart what you wish. So much for the anti-Zionist ability to refrtain from lies and respect the users' intelligence.
Your other source, http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/demographics.html, shows that the percentage of native Israeli Jews nearly doubled from 1960 through 2004. Far from disproving my claim, it appears to confirm it if anything.
Evidently you're reading into that pie chart what you wish. So much for the anti-Zionist ability to refrtain from lies and respect the users' intelligence.
cut it out.
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