Live from Palestine: An Interview with writer and ISM member Nancy Stohlman

Live from Palestine:  An Interview with Nancy Stohlman*

By Mark Schneider **

September 29, 2003

[This interview was published at The Palestine Chronicle and Arabia.com on October 3, 2003]

Live from Palestine:  International and Palestinian Direct Action Against the Israeli Occupation is brand new book published by South End Press.  Over the last three years thousands of internationals have traveled to Palestine and joined Palestinians in nonviolently resisting Israel's illegal military occupation.  Live from Palestine presents this story, in words and actions of the people who made it happen.  Nancy Stohlman is the co-editor of Live from Palestine and was interviewed around the time of the third anniversary of the current Palestinian Intifada.

Mark: Why this book?

Nancy: Co-editor Laurieann Aladin and I thought that what was going on in Palestine was so horrific—and supported by the U.S. government—that this story needed to be told.   We thought that it was important for international activists to share their own experiences in Palestine.  

Mark: Recently I opened up my newspaper and the headline said that, “the recent Palestinian ceasefire is over.”  The story is all about a Palestinian suicide bombing which means the supposed end of the ceasefire.  How do international activists who go to Palestine come to view this situation?

Nancy: Internationals have observed that, contrary to the normal spin we get from the media, these “ceasefires” are somewhat laughable. 

Israel’s policy of assassinate-and-ask-later tank and helicopter attacks of homes, apartments, schools and hospitals are going on nearly all the time, ceasefire or not.  From verbal insults, checkpoints, village blockades, ID cards, houses damaged from tank rounds, Palestinians unable to go to work, the electricity only on from 7 to 11 in the morning: these forms of violence don’t end. The daily life of most Palestinians doesn’t change a whole lot because Palestinian political groups agree to a “ceasefire” – it’s just not in the paper. 

And Palestinians don’t return to western media until they are the perpetuators of violence, or burning an American flag, or holding their arms over their head angrily marching through the street.  Further, Western Media often reports these ceasefires as “periods of relative calm.”  Calm for mostly white Israelis; continuously brutal for Palestinians.  Most people in U.S. are trained to believe that ‘ceasefire’ means “oh, I don’t have to think about that now.” 

Mark: When you went to Palestine last spring (2002) there was no ceasefire.  In fact your experience was different from most international solidarity campaigns in Palestine.  What happened and how did your role change?

Nancy: My role changed a lot. Previously, when internationals went to Palestine they would do things like dismantle the illegally built roadblocks (by the Israeli military) — freedom of access is desperately needed by Palestinians in order to get to work, go to the hospital, get food, and go to school.  For most international activists this feels like a tangible success, a “whew, we did that” feeling. 

But during the massive Israeli invasion of last spring, we were unable to do such things. Throughout the West Bank there were hundreds of activists from around the world.  The Israeli military invaded nearly every major Palestinian city and commenced to slaughter, mass detain and arrest, torture and hold millions of people under 24 hour curfew. 

As activists who were poised to public actions, the Israeli invasion gave activists two choices:  maintain a 24-hour presence in threatened refugee camps, or, take even larger risks by accompanying ambulances, nonviolently intervening in the siege of the Church of the Nativity, and accompany President Arafat and his advisors under shelling. 

I spent the bulk of my time in a refugee camp home and the Bethlehem Star Hotel.  Though the Israeli military attack was in full swing, I faced a surprising enemy:  boredom.  For long periods of time I awaited along with frayed Palestinians moms, dads and their children.

Upon returning to the U.S., I see how this was all very helpful. I see that our physical presence in Palestine gave us a lot of media access, gave us a lot of credibility.  During the spring 2002 Israeli military invasion of the West Bank, the media’s attention was focused on Palestine.  It was also the first time that people around the world saw internationals putting their lives on the line over there.

Mark: How do Palestinians view the internationals coming over? 

Nancy: The killing of Rachel Corrie this past March [2003, by an Israeli D-9 Caterpillar bulldozer as she tried to protect the home of a doctor] is incredibly tragic, yet it’s important to remember that her murder is emblematic of what Palestinians suffer every week, every day.  Since Rachel’s death, and the shooting of several other internationals, Palestinians now respect the work of the International Solidarity Movement even more and want this experiment to continue.

As more internationals continue to go in solidarity to Palestine, there is a need to stay focused.  There’s a risk to suddenly want to get into an action movie. But this is a Palestinian nonviolent movement, this is Palestinian resistance. It’s important to remember that internationals are going to Palestine to help Palestinians do what they’re already doing. 

Mark: The Palestinian nonviolent movement traces its lineage to the first Intifada (1987 to ’93) and even before, though historically Palestinians haven’t been rewarded for their nonviolence sacrifices.  Now, during this second Intifada (2000 to present), Palestinian organizations have attracted thousands of people worldwide to come to Palestine to assist in nonviolent resistance.  Has international involvement been effective?

Nancy: It depends on how you measure efficacy.  Have internationals brought more attention to the issue of Palestinians suffering under occupation?  Yes.  In the absence of U.N. intervention of peacekeepers, do Palestinians feel more supported by the presence of internationals?  Yes.  Has the occupation ended?  No.   Is the apartheid-wall still going up all around the West Bank?  Unfortunately, yes. 

But when internationals go to Palestine and return to their home countries—especially activists from the U.S., because our government props up the Israeli occupation—those voices ripple into their communities and beyond.   For example, here in Colorado one of our recent delegates to Palestine is Jewish. Since he’s returned, his story now ripples into the local Jewish community, and challenges the status quo. 

Mark: Why don’t international activists go to Israel to help protect Jews against suicide bombings?

Nancy: Yes, I’ve heard this question several times.  Like, “why don’t internationals go to the discothèques and the pizza parlors to protect Israelis?” 

We’ve got to look at the whole situation again and see that this is not an “even battle” between “sides,” but that Israel has one of the most sophisticated militaries in the world, with more than 200 nuclear warheads, propped up by the United States with billions of dollars.  Palestinians don’t have a military.  At best they have a rifle to protect their home.  It’s clear who is oppressing who, here. Unfortunately the mainstream media has led people to believe that Israel is right on the brink of extinction.  That’s just not so.  Israel is a military might that is fighting a civilian population. 

Many people from the U.S. who go to Palestine come back and make the connection between Palestinians and Native Americans. The stereotyping, and fundamentally the racism inherent in the Israeli occupation, are the same that are used in this country to confine and control indigenous people.  In U.S. history books and movies we’re taught that many indigenous tribes are noble savages willing to scalp, murder and massacre for apparently illegitimate reasons.  Likewise, Israelis and Americans are fed a media diet of angry masked Palestinian men pumping their firsts, firing off guns and burning Israeli and U.S. flags.  In reality, Palestinians and Native Americans are just trying to live, to educate their children, and yes they’re willing to fight for these basic human rights.

Mark: In the book, one of the founders of ISM, Huwaida Arraf, speaks of a peoples legitimate right to armed resistance, though clearly she’s a proponent of nonviolent resistance and doesn’t believe violent resistance will be effective with Israel.  Yet today in Palestine there is both violent and nonviolent resistance.  How do internationals work within that dichotomy?

Nancy: Internationals who go to Palestine commit to nonviolent resistance.  There are nonviolent trainings that include role-playing physical and verbal forms of violence.  The ISM is attempting to attack from a different direction, from a nonviolent direction, so that it is clear in any situation that the Israelis are the aggressors. 

But when you go over there, you understand the rage that Palestinians must feel to push some of them to react violently.  The world seems to want the Palestinians to calmly sit and take their fate, without any resistance whatsoever. An occupied people have a right to resist in any way they need.  If someone invaded the U.S., how many people would tolerate being told they weren’t allowed to resist occupation and colonialism?  (Yet this already happened to the indigenous people of this country when they attempted to resist.) 

I think it’s incredibly presumptuous to condemn people for fighting for their life, their existence.  Settlers, in the West Bank, for instance, are allowed to carry whatever weapons they want—and regularly use them on Palestinians.  One of the more disturbing things I saw were visitors at the Wailing Wall, Hassidic Jews with M-16s slung over their shoulder.  And no one seems to have a problem with that.  If we’re going to take some kind of pious morality that no one is allowed to have weapons, then let’s remove all the weapons and go from there.

Mark: When Palestinians have taken nonviolent action against the occupation, they get shot and killed, or at least arrested and illegally imprisoned and often tortured.  So the main point of having international observers present at Palestinian nonviolent actions is to decrease that risk. Yet, with the IDF killing Rachel Corrie and the shooting of several other internationals, is the special privilege of internationals in jeopardy?

Nancy: Absolutely.  Many internationals are even finding it difficult to get into and out of Palestine.  We had a situation this past July [2003] where internationals were trying to remove an illegal Israeli roadblock.  The IDF showed up and when they found out the activists were with the ISM, the soldiers’ demeanor changed immediately—they became irate.  People, especially those who have already been over, are going to have a harder time getting into Palestine. 

However, the numbers of people going hasn’t let up.  A lot of people are going and they are even more committed.  The know the stakes are higher.  After the recent U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq, more people are seeing that going to Palestine is a very visible way to actually do something.  At least the internationals are providing an alternate human face—not the face of George Bush, not the image that the U.S. is projecting every day with every bomb dropped on Afghanistan, Iraq and elsewhere.

Mark: In Live from Palestine, prominent Palestinian political leader Abdul Jawad Saleh writes that, “Israel is determined to remain the victim.  There’s no glory in being the victim of Pacifism.”  Yet, there’s virtually no reporting on the Palestinian nonviolent movement.  Why?

Nancy: It’s not in the interests of the United States.  The interests of the U.S. include having Israel as a foothold in the Middle East, having this ‘democracy’ do the dirty work for us in the Middle East.  It’s not in U.S. interests to show the faces of the Palestinian people.  Same with Iraq.  At best we might read about the suffering of the U.S. soldiers in Iraq, but certainly we won’t hear about the tens of thousands of Iraqis, both civilians and military, who have been slaughtered by U.S. bombs and bullets. 

We are also not told that Palestinians, Iraqis, and others are actually highly intelligent people with ideas that most people of the U.S. would agree with.  If the media actually did show a Palestinian nonviolent resistance, this would probably appeal to American sensibilities.  But again, empathy for Palestinians is not in U.S. interests.

When internationals have joined with Palestinians in nonviolently resisting the Israeli occupation, there is a greater chance that international media will show up, though what makes it past the editor is still a mixed bag. Why?  Racism.  “White lives” mean more to CNN and FOX.  Even when the western media shows up at a Palestinian-international action, the media will mostly interview the white Westerners and avoid the Palestinians. 

Most Westerners, including the media, don’t even fully understand or acknowledge the existing racism towards Arabs. For example, Israeli lives lost in a Palestinian suicide bombing will often get front-page treatment, as they should.  However, three times as many Palestinians have been killed as Israelis (and tens of thousands of Palestinians have been injured). How many stories have been written about Palestinian moms and dads murdered by the Israeli military? 

Mark: You’re a single mom with a toddler, yet you went to Palestinian and ended up living through a massive Israeli invasion.  Before you went, were you aware of the risks?  And, knowing what you do now, how can you persuade other parents to go to Palestine as you did?

Nancy: Yes, I was aware of the risks, though I didn’t quite imagine it was going to be such a turbulent time.  There were two things that helped me as parent.  First, I think parents have to set examples. People will make the understandable excuse that they can’t take these kinds of risks because they’re raising children. But children are a lot smarter than what we give them credit for.  They mimic what you do, not what you think. 

Secondly, another activist reminded me that, as a single mom, I was bringing “mother energy” – parental energy – to Palestine. We need more moms over there. When you have a child you develop certain strengths; you are more likely to intuit the needs of others, you’re more likely to take action.  It’s important for people with that level of awareness and compassion to go to Palestine.

Mark: If someone wants to go Palestine, be an activist with the ISM, what does it take?

Nancy: A great labor organizer from New York City, Jordan Flaherty, has a piece in Live from Palestine that spells this out in better details. 

It takes a lot of commitment, a lot of soul-searching.  Going to Palestine should not be a short-term thrill, it should be very thought out.  People should be very clear about their objectives.  Everything that an activist knows will be tested, no matter the conditions in Palestine at the time. 

It’s important for a person to get hooked up with a local group that can provide nonviolence trainings, fundraising help, historical briefings and support while you’re over there.  Further, it’s crucial to be committed to share what you’ve learned on your return, and spur others to action.  It’s at least a six-month commitment, including the before, during and after, for just for a three week trip. 

Mark: Who should read Live from Palestine?

Nancy: Anyone who is interested in the Middle East but hasn’t had the gumption to pick up a book yet, or for whom reading Noam Chomsky or Edward Said for the first time seems overwhelming. 

Also people who are interested in reading true, first-hand stories of inspiring nonviolent resistance should be reading this book.  People in refugee camps, running across fields, inside Arafat’s compound under siege, these are people telling you what it’s like to live and resist under military occupation.

I hope more books like this are published in the U.S., books that will continue to show Palestinians living with dignity under occupation, and ultimately winning a just peace. 

***** You can order Live from Palestine online from South End Press or from your local bookstore.

***** By going to the Live from Palestine's main webpage you can read more about book’s contents and contributors.

* Nancy Stohlman is a Denver writer and a former organizer for the Colorado Campaign for Middle East Peace. She was in the West Bank with the International Solidarity Movement during the Spring 2002 Israeli invasion, and her journals from Palestine were circulated internationally. She has been published in Common Dreams, Counterpunch, The Palestine Chronicle, Snowline Poetry Journal, and The Bloomsbury Review. She just completed her first novel, The Lotus Eaters.  You can write Nancy at nancystohlman2@hotmail.com

** Mark Schneider is an organizer experienced with the struggles of the environment, poor people of color discriminated against by banks, homeless people asserting their rights, anti-war movements, and the two solidarity movements with the Palestinian and Iraqi people. As a member of the Colorado Campaign for Middle East Peace he joined the Winter 2001 ISM campaign in Palestine, and spent two weeks in Iraq in 2000.  He has been published in The Denver Post, Counterpunch, The Palestine Chronicle, Colorado Springs Independent, The Colorado Daily and The Cleveland Plain Dealer.  You can write Mark at dogbuckeye@yahoo.com