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Judge gives PL TRO against Freshwater sitters
Judge Rienholtsen granted Maxxam's Temporary Restraining Order against the Freshwater Sitters.
Judge Dale Reinholtsen granted Maxxam/PL's Temporary Restraining Order against the Freshwater Sitters. Apparently the judge is allowing 24 hours notice to remove themselves or be in violation of the TRO after they have been served papers. Download the PDF file to see the PL written TRO. Follow the link to see the mainstream reporting on the TRO.
A interesting note is that John Driscoll cites that the judge said this or that in the order. Which is a inaccurate statement of his reporting and a lie. The judge was given a proposed order. He crossed out the proposed and filled in the blanks. Though the judge may have signed it, I honestly don't believe it reflects the words of the judge, it reflect the wording of Maxscam/PL's attorneys.
Meanwhile today at the Humboldt County Board of supervisors meeting today, Humboldt DA requested some upfront costs for the $250 million dollar lawsuit which was recently filed against Pacific Lumber. A bay area law firm is assisting the DA's office on the matter based on a contingency based fee. A reporter told someone in the community that the 50-60 logging truck drivers surrounding the courthouse today during the supervisor meetings where given a six pack of beer to attend and no parking tickets where issued by the parking enforcement of the Eureka PD. Kinda a double standard on the Eureka PD's parking enforcement division.
A interesting note is that John Driscoll cites that the judge said this or that in the order. Which is a inaccurate statement of his reporting and a lie. The judge was given a proposed order. He crossed out the proposed and filled in the blanks. Though the judge may have signed it, I honestly don't believe it reflects the words of the judge, it reflect the wording of Maxscam/PL's attorneys.
Meanwhile today at the Humboldt County Board of supervisors meeting today, Humboldt DA requested some upfront costs for the $250 million dollar lawsuit which was recently filed against Pacific Lumber. A bay area law firm is assisting the DA's office on the matter based on a contingency based fee. A reporter told someone in the community that the 50-60 logging truck drivers surrounding the courthouse today during the supervisor meetings where given a six pack of beer to attend and no parking tickets where issued by the parking enforcement of the Eureka PD. Kinda a double standard on the Eureka PD's parking enforcement division.
For more information:
http://www.times-standard.com/Stories/0,14...
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"A reporter told someone in the community..." Boy, that sure is concrete. Sounds like more heresay to me. I can't believe anyone actually believes this drivel. So maybe if I continue in this vein, readers will believe me too. I heard that Gallegos was sorely embarrassed in front of his peers for not knowing what he was talking about, and the board issued a firm no with a 4 to 1 vote against him. Oh yeah, and I was there, so I couldn't recieve this info from "a reporter" or "someone in the community."
Let the judge climb up and evict the treesitters.
Fuck the court order. Treesitters, stay where you are. Let them climb up and evict your asses. Remedy, you have my total support. keep up the work. The dawn of the goddesses arives.
Wasn't that great! Alibi, made the environmentalists assholes pucker also. The time has come to start dishing out a little justice toward these people. Those of you eggheads that don't like what we are doing, get the hell out of Humboldt.
alibi
just an opinion or reflection. seems like a big ol pr campaign on either side anyway. nothing will change. folks will manuever, politricians will do their thing and regardless of whether the enviro's resist or sue or due whatever, the time is numbered on what ya can cut. layoffs will happen when the business plan plays out for conversion to second growth. mills get shut down during the refit. big ol pr, wah wah wah.. no one will say anything when the folks slowly get rehired as the mill comes back on-line and the future thp's back up.
simpson or some other company will pick up the slack for the market. yes tough times in the ol job market(but really, what industry isn't in dire straits), but that's nothing of a surprise. hurwitz leveraged the timber bonds to run this cycle of business. funny, where's the hostility when other fortune 500 companies lay off the equivalent of PL's entire workload(800 jobs) all the time. doubt your heart was bleeding a bit when you've heard of these massive layoffs. when the hundreds at enron got booted. why did the PL mill workers stay inside scotia when the steelworkers came down from washington a few years back. you folks just think your special. pathetic i say............ the first to be breaking the law was PL operating without the waivers from the waterboard. yes PL was breaking the law in freshwater first. who's got cleanhands? now that you leaned on the waterboard flunkies, your somehow holier than though. what a bunch of hypocrites.
just an opinion or reflection. seems like a big ol pr campaign on either side anyway. nothing will change. folks will manuever, politricians will do their thing and regardless of whether the enviro's resist or sue or due whatever, the time is numbered on what ya can cut. layoffs will happen when the business plan plays out for conversion to second growth. mills get shut down during the refit. big ol pr, wah wah wah.. no one will say anything when the folks slowly get rehired as the mill comes back on-line and the future thp's back up.
simpson or some other company will pick up the slack for the market. yes tough times in the ol job market(but really, what industry isn't in dire straits), but that's nothing of a surprise. hurwitz leveraged the timber bonds to run this cycle of business. funny, where's the hostility when other fortune 500 companies lay off the equivalent of PL's entire workload(800 jobs) all the time. doubt your heart was bleeding a bit when you've heard of these massive layoffs. when the hundreds at enron got booted. why did the PL mill workers stay inside scotia when the steelworkers came down from washington a few years back. you folks just think your special. pathetic i say............ the first to be breaking the law was PL operating without the waivers from the waterboard. yes PL was breaking the law in freshwater first. who's got cleanhands? now that you leaned on the waterboard flunkies, your somehow holier than though. what a bunch of hypocrites.
History demands that I concede your first paragraph as valid if not probable, and people will change and move on.
However, PL's influence on this county is much greater than ENRON's travails against America. Until another major industry moves in, attacking one of the two timber giants will only impact the quality of living on the north coast. And face it, anywhere you go in this county, if you stop and look around, you see trees. To deny that this region is about anything else is folly. As for the whole waiver and waterboard thing, the judge's ruling was very open to interpretation, and your opinion on that issue is indeed a mere and unsubstantiated personal one of yours.
However, PL's influence on this county is much greater than ENRON's travails against America. Until another major industry moves in, attacking one of the two timber giants will only impact the quality of living on the north coast. And face it, anywhere you go in this county, if you stop and look around, you see trees. To deny that this region is about anything else is folly. As for the whole waiver and waterboard thing, the judge's ruling was very open to interpretation, and your opinion on that issue is indeed a mere and unsubstantiated personal one of yours.
As for the whole waiver and waterboard thing, the judge's ruling was very open to interpretation
As for what judge's interpretation? Which judge? what court or you discussing?
As for what I'm referring to there was no judge's interpretation on the water board flunkies waivers. It was an administrative procedure done by davis appointed idiots. the level of ignorance and lack of knowledge by most of the waterboard appointies is dangerous. And i say dangerous for both sides of the issue. When you have flunkies who don't know shit about water and the effects being had on it, it gets dangerous when they make decisions effecting people's quality of life. The regional H2O board doesn't have a clue what they are doing. And yes, maybe they will rule in favor of what the so-called enviro's want, but they might also rule in favor of the resource extraction industry. In the process their uneducated decisions are fucking up the communities drinking water, which effects both sides of the fence. What's the harm in having monitoring? Why are they so afraid of gathering the data? Maybe the data will point to that the logging doesn't cause a discharge? maybe it will point to a discharge? without the data, it's a bunch of bullshit by either side and comes down to my PR is bigger than yours.
As for what judge's interpretation? Which judge? what court or you discussing?
As for what I'm referring to there was no judge's interpretation on the water board flunkies waivers. It was an administrative procedure done by davis appointed idiots. the level of ignorance and lack of knowledge by most of the waterboard appointies is dangerous. And i say dangerous for both sides of the issue. When you have flunkies who don't know shit about water and the effects being had on it, it gets dangerous when they make decisions effecting people's quality of life. The regional H2O board doesn't have a clue what they are doing. And yes, maybe they will rule in favor of what the so-called enviro's want, but they might also rule in favor of the resource extraction industry. In the process their uneducated decisions are fucking up the communities drinking water, which effects both sides of the fence. What's the harm in having monitoring? Why are they so afraid of gathering the data? Maybe the data will point to that the logging doesn't cause a discharge? maybe it will point to a discharge? without the data, it's a bunch of bullshit by either side and comes down to my PR is bigger than yours.
I will never confess to having PR envy. I am very comfortable with my PR just the way it is, thank you.
I was reminding you of judge Golden's ruling on the suit that EPIC filed against PL's SYP. My mistake - different issue. Nevertheless, the waivers were not required for operations to proceed in Freshwater due to an exemption regarding the forest practice rules up until 1/1/03. After this date, THP's have been resubmitted, and they have either been granted or are waiting for approval. I am confused as to your accusation of unauthorized proceedure. You are aware that the general public or its individuals don't create these laws. Lawyers and agencies do.
PL does have a stream monitoring program. I just think you disagree with it.
I was reminding you of judge Golden's ruling on the suit that EPIC filed against PL's SYP. My mistake - different issue. Nevertheless, the waivers were not required for operations to proceed in Freshwater due to an exemption regarding the forest practice rules up until 1/1/03. After this date, THP's have been resubmitted, and they have either been granted or are waiting for approval. I am confused as to your accusation of unauthorized proceedure. You are aware that the general public or its individuals don't create these laws. Lawyers and agencies do.
PL does have a stream monitoring program. I just think you disagree with it.
This judge doesn't know a thing about Nature. The effects of clear-cut logging on forests is beyond his comprehension. The worsening cycle of erosion, sedimentation, and flooding is beyond his understanding or care. The so called court experts are hired lackeys of the timber companies, suitcases of cash handed behind closed doors.
Corrupted sell out scientists who support timber industry are making true scientists look bad. People who wish to understand the complexity of Earth's biodiversity are silenced my money hungry pseudoscience industry puppets.
People, please stay up in the trees, we need those trees to stay alive. We know the timber industry is wrong, and so is this judge. Their science is inaccurate, misleading and dangerous. The damage from erosion of clear cuts will get worse every year, perpetuating a downward spiral.
This is one science/enviro/naturalist geek who supports the tree sitters 100 percent. Would like to ask my peer bioscientists to demand a stop to this excessive clear cut logging.
Corrupted sell out scientists who support timber industry are making true scientists look bad. People who wish to understand the complexity of Earth's biodiversity are silenced my money hungry pseudoscience industry puppets.
People, please stay up in the trees, we need those trees to stay alive. We know the timber industry is wrong, and so is this judge. Their science is inaccurate, misleading and dangerous. The damage from erosion of clear cuts will get worse every year, perpetuating a downward spiral.
This is one science/enviro/naturalist geek who supports the tree sitters 100 percent. Would like to ask my peer bioscientists to demand a stop to this excessive clear cut logging.
Yet more unsubstantiated opinion and classic enviro verbage. Zero facts. At least you have a plethora of brainwashed beliefs that help you rationalize your guilty conscious into feeling better for espousing points of view that are unproven/untrue. Give me your numbers, your studies, your sources or become the psuedo-scientist poser that you claim to despise.
>The damage from erosion of clear cuts will get worse every year, perpetuating a downward spiral.
As years pass vegetation begins to recapture the site starting the natural process of succession over again. As vegetation grows the amount of erosion decreases significantly. Try thinking before you spew your eco-groovy BS.
As years pass vegetation begins to recapture the site starting the natural process of succession over again. As vegetation grows the amount of erosion decreases significantly. Try thinking before you spew your eco-groovy BS.
The clear cuts are subject to severe erosion in the first few years, this is the worst kind as it removes the organic humus (topsoil) from the previously forested slope. The run-off from the clear cut can enter streams and cause problems such as eutrophication, sedimentation, excessive algae growth. The downward spiral gets worse downstream, it only takes on season of rains to pull off the topsoil layer, then the sedimentation of streams has already occurred, causing flooding, increasing the velocity of the water which then erodes the stream banks further, causing more sedimentation, erosion, flooding, etc..
The clear cut area is eventually (??? years) revegetated (you are correct, gold star 4 U), though it is not neccesarily revegetated by the same tree species that were previously there. The hotter microclimate of the clear cut allows sun-tolerent species to invade, considered underbrush. It also creates conditions unfriendly for the original trees to grow back.
The soil is also much drier as 1) the previous layer of organic humus has been eroded 2) there is no new organic layer being deposited as the trees are all dead and gone (the sun tolerant veg debris is not as lush as true forest compost 3) lack of shade in clear cuts allows direct insolation of sun's rays, thereby drying the soil 4) the invasive sun-tolerent underbrush is responsible for the severe forest fires that occurred this past summer. As old growth trees are removed, canopy cover shade is lost, the hotter microclimates and underbrush primarily from clear-cuts, lack of shade from too many old growth trees gone, etc..
Quantifying any of these processes with the numbers you request is nearly impossible. The complexity of forest ecosystems contains so many variables that any mathematic equation would involve nearly infinite probabilities. This info is nearly common knowledge for anyone with a basic understanding of hydrology, for starters check out Christopherson's "Elemental Geosystems"
Clear cutting and tree removal has long term negative effects on the environment. This is scientific fact, though true life science is once again being drowned out by greed and fools who only understand capitalist dogma..
The clear cut area is eventually (??? years) revegetated (you are correct, gold star 4 U), though it is not neccesarily revegetated by the same tree species that were previously there. The hotter microclimate of the clear cut allows sun-tolerent species to invade, considered underbrush. It also creates conditions unfriendly for the original trees to grow back.
The soil is also much drier as 1) the previous layer of organic humus has been eroded 2) there is no new organic layer being deposited as the trees are all dead and gone (the sun tolerant veg debris is not as lush as true forest compost 3) lack of shade in clear cuts allows direct insolation of sun's rays, thereby drying the soil 4) the invasive sun-tolerent underbrush is responsible for the severe forest fires that occurred this past summer. As old growth trees are removed, canopy cover shade is lost, the hotter microclimates and underbrush primarily from clear-cuts, lack of shade from too many old growth trees gone, etc..
Quantifying any of these processes with the numbers you request is nearly impossible. The complexity of forest ecosystems contains so many variables that any mathematic equation would involve nearly infinite probabilities. This info is nearly common knowledge for anyone with a basic understanding of hydrology, for starters check out Christopherson's "Elemental Geosystems"
Clear cutting and tree removal has long term negative effects on the environment. This is scientific fact, though true life science is once again being drowned out by greed and fools who only understand capitalist dogma..
Please explain to me how or why if freshwater was nearly 90% logged in the 1920's in one giant contiguous clearcut, then burned repeatedly in an effort to convert it to grazing land, and without the help of replanting, it then regenerated into the vigorous second growth forest that is being squabbled over now? According to you, all of the topsoil washed away to the bay, and brush species were the only things hardy enough to survive. The poor fragile trees just couldn't grow without soil. Maybe some actually stayed on the hills. And could it really be that trees really are a renewable resource that will regenerate themselves despite the best efforts of man to eliminate them?
you want proof that clear cutting causes erosion, and permanent damage to the surrounding areas? go sit in a tree during the prosses. you will have all the proof you will ever need. first of all after all the trees are cut (i have seen trees fall and rollall the way into the riverbed itself), huge ditches are carved into the land by skyline yarders. then they collect all the slash together and either burn it or leave it in huge piles along the logging roads, which spiderweb the surrounding land for miles. and when mother earth tries to stop the erosion by growing her plants and trees in the clear cuts, they then come in with herbicides and sometimes diesel feul and spray everything to death, then they plant monoculture tree farms. most of these first trees die for one reason or another, and all the while its raining cats and dogs on this baron steep slope, in this time i have SEEN water literally runninng in little streams down the slopes and down the logging roads. you want proof, just go sit in a tree.
Looks like it's time for you to climb down, absorb some real statistics, and use a dicionary to improve your lexical abilities. I cringe when struggling to read your slop. It only solidifies my already low opinion of your abiliy to cogitate and absorb information. It bores me to lecture you narrow thinking unimproved people. I'm out. For those of you who did have intelligent additions, thanks for returning salvos.
statistics? i could go live in a box and read about whats going on outside my door, and i could believe the words when they tell me that the hillside is in fact not falling and the statistics show that there is no proof of the erosion caused by clearcutting. but i will still be washed away by the landslide.
In that instance, would it have made more sense for you to have not put your box below a landslide?
Logging or not, it's gonna come down.
Logging or not, it's gonna come down.
indeed, i would not be living in a box below the landslide, i would personnally live in the only thing that is holding the hillside together, and pray to god no one is ignorant ennough to come and cut it down.
indeed, i would not be living in a box below the landslide, i would personnally live in the only thing that is holding the hillside together, and pray to god no one is ignorant ennough to come and cut it down.
"Looks like it's time for you to climb down, absorb some real statistics, and use a dictionary to improve your lexical abilities. I cringe when struggling to read your slop. It only solidifies my already low opinion of your ability to cogitate and absorb information. It bores me to lecture you narrow thinking unimproved people. I'm out. For those of you who did have intelligent additions, thanks for returning salvos."
I have taken the liberty of correcting you poor grammar. You tell others to use a dictionary to improve their "lexical abilities," yet you cannot even spell the words dictionary or abilities. I can at least read and decipher what the hell they are trying to say. I think you need to take your own advice and use a dictionary instead of trying to sound intelligent and intellectual. By tthe way do you even know what the word "salvos" means?
I have taken the liberty of correcting you poor grammar. You tell others to use a dictionary to improve their "lexical abilities," yet you cannot even spell the words dictionary or abilities. I can at least read and decipher what the hell they are trying to say. I think you need to take your own advice and use a dictionary instead of trying to sound intelligent and intellectual. By tthe way do you even know what the word "salvos" means?
Today being the feast day of the man who chased the snakes out of the Emeral Isle, It would seem a more tha appropriate tribute to drive the snakes out of the Emerald Triangle.
May the game end.
May the game end.
hey christiff, congratulations! You can actually spot typos when you see them, but mispellings are not poor grammar as you claim. Neither is punctuation. Take an English class, so I don't have to debrief you on grammar. It's kind of classic that you think misppelling words is a grammar error. Sort of like all the other things that you think you know what you are talking about. Oops!
Yes I was careless. Are you able to admit your mistakes? By the way, salvos is the plural of salvo. Look it up. Make sense now? I'll write in simple sentences for you from now on. I wouldn't want you to struggle to comprehend more complex syntax.
The point is this. The misspellings are lazy, and they lessen your credibility. How can I accept someone's position on barren slopes when that person misspells barren? I really don't believe he is familiar with the subject, and have a hard time believing anything he says. If you are lazy enough to mispell, then you probably do no research either. Listening to your friends is a far easier way to acquire heresay. This is a public forum, not secluded email, so don't type fast like I did, and know your subject matter before looking foolish in front of everyone.
Yes I was careless. Are you able to admit your mistakes? By the way, salvos is the plural of salvo. Look it up. Make sense now? I'll write in simple sentences for you from now on. I wouldn't want you to struggle to comprehend more complex syntax.
The point is this. The misspellings are lazy, and they lessen your credibility. How can I accept someone's position on barren slopes when that person misspells barren? I really don't believe he is familiar with the subject, and have a hard time believing anything he says. If you are lazy enough to mispell, then you probably do no research either. Listening to your friends is a far easier way to acquire heresay. This is a public forum, not secluded email, so don't type fast like I did, and know your subject matter before looking foolish in front of everyone.
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