Welcome to SF Peace March; KPFA Live

The partial list of speakers and entertainment at the San Francisco peace march includes, but is definitely not limited to:
West Coast Rally Speakers will include:

Congresswomen Barbara Lee (the only member of Congress to vote against the Iraq pro-war resolution)
Noted American Indian activist and singer, Floyd "Red Crow" Westerman
Anuradha Mittal, Food-First Co-director
Congresswoman Lyn Woolsey
Singer Joan Baez
Vietnam vet and Medal of Honor Winner Charlie Litkey
Amy Brennerman of the "Judging Amy Show"
Dick BecKer of the International Action Coalition
From: http://www.pacifica.org/news/030118_PacificaRallyCoverage.html

Not to diminish the effort, but isn't it a little hypocritical to expend all that gasoline driving to SF? How about instead PARKING YOUR CAR in protest?

We're getting live reports. This is HUGE. It's an outrageous success. Bigger than we ever dreamed. At least 200,000 people downtown. Some people say three. Smaller groups scattered around the city. Listen to Enemy Combatant Radio for live coverage of the breakaway march.

Don't let liars like Royce trick you. The anti-war movement is emmence. All political pursuasions are represented, left, right center and other. Only fools want this war.

The fact is, most people on the streets today don't give a rat's arse about the totalitarian left.

The fact is that the protests are many times as large as Oct. 26th

The fact is that you are bitching without getting out and organizing an opposition to your liking

The world knows the truth. You do not represent the truth.

There will be a ton of nice pictures which will show the truth. It'll take a while because people are still at the demos. There is even a helicopter flying over downtown SF that was commissioned by the Answer folks to get direct "perspective" shots of how big the protest is. I just came back from downtown. This demo is at least 2.5 times as large as the Oct. 26th one.

Where were all these fine peace protesters when we bombed Serbia for 70+ days. NOWHERE to be found.
I tried to organize a pacifist group and was totally ignored.

Why would someone that works for peace complain about people acting for peace at any time? Frankly, I think the odds are high that Hal isn't what "he" seems. ;-)

"We" didn't bomb Serbia. The government bombed Serbia. We protested, a couple thousand strong in Dolores Park. I was there. Where were you?

I still have my banner and the memory of a good friend who 'took' a NATO bomb according to his sister. The Serbia protest was a one shot deal that never took it to the streets or challenged the administration.
After watching today's DC protest on cspan, it's no wonder they fail to excite; everbody BUT pacifists got the microphone - way off message.

Anyone know what was up with the other four Pacifica stations? I think they were playing the Pacifica feed from D.C. But about 30 minutes ago, in the last hour of the coverage for San Francisco when KPFA was doing their thing, I checked out the streaming from WBAI, KPFT and WPWF and NONE OF THEM had the coverage KPFA was doing. What's up with that? Did they only cover the DC feed? it seemed WPWF was only playing music (common for them), and I didn't listen long enough to the others but it was clear they weren't covering the SF feed.

Does someone know more about this? I don't want to rush to judgment, but I was disappointed to not find the other stations not covering both events in full.

cooooool yeah totally

Thank God for S.F, L.A's spiritual neighbor!

We love you!

http://makeashorterlink.com/?P37C22423

http://makeashorterlink.com/?C18C32423

:: Don't let liars like Royce trick you.

I am actually right, which must be the reason my post was removed, huh? Nothing like the truth interfering with your dreams.

It's true that ANSWER, the totalitarian, Leninist front is the organizer of the SF and DC events. How can you deny that?

Just to confirm, rather than post pictures, here are some of the signs at these demonstrations and what some at Indymedia are saying. The demonstrations, yesterday's news by any standard, were hijacked by the Totalitarian Left:

"U. S. Out of the Middle East AND San Francisco."

"No to Big Oil & the Pentagon. Hands off Iraq. Hands off the World."
- Workers World Party

"Have some more pretzels (Fucker)" (Picture of Bush)

"Have another pretzel Mushmouth!"

"The Führer is already in his bunker." (Picture of Cheney in Nazi officer's hat)

"God Bless Iraq."

"Stop the Bushitler."

"The difference between Bush and Saddam is that Saddam was elected."

"I want YOU to die for Israel. Israel sings Onward Christian Soldiers."

"Solidarity action to free Mumia Abu-Jamal." (Nothing to do with Iraq, obviously)

"Saddam's Elire Republican Guard." (People with face masks of Bush, Cheney & Kissinger."

"Butterflies, not bombs"

"Where's the media?"

----
Organizer's - Participant's statements:

"Organizers said they had been asked to bring the march to three locations, which they did. They did not cite Starbucks as one of these locations, but smiled when they were told that its windows had been smashed."
" Our march did not confront a single individual human being with violence. The only people looking for a fight today were the police."
http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/01/1562051.php

Two Thousand Anarchists go on Rampage in San Francisco:
"The high point of the demonstration was in attacks on the building that houses the Federal government's Immigration and Naturalization Service. Numerous windows were broken and a cement pylon and a newspaper box were thrown through the INS building's glass front doors."
"The anti-globalization movement is dead, but the anti-capitalist movement is alive and well."
"Today's protest are only a small taste of things to come if the war on Iraq happens."
http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/01/1562024_comment.php#1562141

"The question is: why has it taken this long to smash the fuck out of the INS building?"
http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/01/1562053_comment.php#1562094

This pretty well sums up yesterday's peaceful demonstrations against a potential war in Iraq.

so what? these are some of the best sign messages. You call running through the streets and redecorating totalitarian? I do think it's interesting, about the part you quoted - 'they were asked to bring he march" But so what, it was great. And if someone used that fire to light a cigarette, who cares? It was great to start the march with something on fire, although I missed what it was that got burned.

:: so what? these are some of the best sign messages.

Which illustrates my point.

There's a big difference between very angry people expressing heart-felt frustration about a government gone wild (destroying civil liberties without adding to safety, an accelerated vision of empire that is openly discussed in policy planning documents and beyond debate) and individuals subscribing to a "totalitarian left." What you see are people with high emotions, not a subscription to a specific political ideology. Certainly, there are a handful of far leftist ideologs. I'm not arguing that they don't exist. But you make sweeping generalizations and greatly distort reality.

As for that picture of the dude with the burning flag, you didn't cite where it came from nor provided a URL. For all we know, it could be five years old. In any event, there certainly where Americans doing actions like that yesterday, and bov's response is right on target: So what? About 1 percent of the protestors were of that mindframe. For example, look at the stories about the black block people -- there were about 2,000 of them, which represented about 1% of the San Francisco protest. Anything you say about that group can't be extended to the entire protest.

My point above was to focus on his ridiculous generalizations and not paint flag burning or any other specific action in a bad light. I'm not here to make moral judgments on specific protest actions (even though I'll say that I think we can fairly and reasonably kick around ideas to debate what methods are most effective).

:: S. T. Royce
::by ziggy • Sunday January 19, 2003 at 08:01 PM

:: What you see are people with high emotions, not a subscription to a specific political ideology. Certainly, there are a handful of far leftist ideologs. I'm not arguing that they don't exist. But you make sweeping generalizations and greatly distort reality.

Ziggy, go ahead and tell us who organized the demonstrations and that know one knew who they were. It won't work; if you marched against the war with those from ANSWER/WWP, you can't escape the moral repsonsibility that entails. Period.

:: As for that picture of the dude with the burning flag, you didn't cite where it came from nor provided a URL. For all we know, it could be five years old. In any event, there certainly where Americans doing actions like that yesterday, and bov's response is right on target: So what? About 1 percent of the protestors were of that mindframe. For example, look at the stories about the black block people -- there were about 2,000 of them, which represented about 1% of the San Francisco protest. Anything you say about that group can't be extended to the entire protest.

I see. So marching for Peace and against a potential war in Iraq excuses actions of those who are out to destroy private property? Is this the moral equivalence you subscribe to?

------------------------------------------
:: and let me clarify for others
by ziggy • Sunday January 19, 2003 at 08:05 PM

:: My point above was to focus on his ridiculous generalizations and not paint flag burning or any other specific action in a bad light. I'm not here to make moral judgments on specific protest actions (even though I'll say that I think we can fairly and reasonably kick around ideas to debate what methods are most effective).

Let's translate that. Ziggy feels that it is all right to make a moral judgement on going to war on Iraq, demonstrate for Peace, yet he is unwilling to paint "protest actions" in a "bad light" or make moral judgements on violent actions by demonstrators? In other words, it just depends on to whom you want to direct violence, not on any moral grounds against violence or the destruction of private property, the whole reason - we were told - for the Peace marches anyway. Isn't that the ultimate in hypocrisy?

So you see, ziggy, you're attempts at explanation only served to illustrate my point. Maybe you can understand that in the real world ANSWER and the WWP are taken for what they really are and that one cannot excuse association with them in these so-called Peace marches.

I'm afraid you've been taken in as have many of those who have posted here since Saturday.

The flag burning photo is from the Associated Press.
Check out:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030119/168/32jhd.html

The caption reads:

"A protester lights his cigarette with a burning United States flag at an anti-war protest in Portland, Ore., Saturday, Jan. 18, 2003. (AP Photo/John Gress) "

Thanks for all the great slogans. I'm going to print them out immediately and make stickers to put on your SUV.

:: Royce
by Joe Mahma • Monday January 20, 2003 at 07:34 PM

:: Thanks for all the great slogans. I'm going to print them out immediately and make stickers to put on your SUV.

You'll have to settle for a beat-up Volvo.

Will you do that before or after pledging your undying allegiance to ANSWER/WWP?

Without their "voluntary servitude" the leader would be impotent. As Gandhi points out:

Even the most despotic government cannot stand except for the consent of the governed which consent is often forcibly procured by the despot. Immediately the subject ceases to fear the despotic force, his power is gone (Gandhi, 1980, p.27)

In actual practice, the withdrawal of co-operation takes the form of civil disobedience, strikes, occupations, boycotts, and a general mass non-compliance with the wishes of the oppressor. [Gene Sharp (1973) has documented over 200 successful techniques of nonviolent resistance.] In the great Indian strike or hartel of 1930 against the Salt Laws, for example, virtually the entire subcontinent was shut down and British rule paralyzed (Bondurant, 1958).