ILWU LOCKOUT--Come to the ports!!

Greetings from northern New Mexico! Short on ocean, but long on solidarity.

Greetings from northern New Mexico! Short on ocean, but long on solidarity.

Way to go, New Mexico!-Ken Morgan, member, ILWU Local 6 (Warehouse Div)

The PMA is trying to start a fight with the ILWU over the hard earned right to hire with the Hiring Hall system. That system was won with worker's blood in the Waterfront General Strike of 1934. The PMA knows that with the help President Bush and Homeland Security Czar Tom Ridge, they can once again use the National Guard to spill worker's blood.

It's up to all workers in Maritime and every industry to speak out against the PMA it's alliance with companies like Wal-Mart, Payless Shoes, Burlington Coat Factory and others. If I had the money, I would fly out to Oakland to join the pickets, but like many I can't afford that. I live in a port town and I can encourage Longshoreman here on the the East Coast to take action in solidarity. I can also harrass Wal-Mart since there's one in every town.

solidarity will win!

As they say, weakness breeds aggression.

It's a long sad story - how the weakness of the leadership of the AFL-CIO has encouraged the employers to become increasingly aggressive. Let's just look at the record: Greyhound, P-9, Staley, Caterpiller, Hormel... The list goes on, and added to this list of defeated strikes is the near-endless list of concessionary contracts, where the concessions were granted without a strike.

The AFL-CIO leadership is the only sector of US society that believes if obeying the law. They are so terrified of getting a court injunction, that they make sure in advance that nothing even slightly "illegal" is done on a picket line. This is not how the unions were built, nor how the gains of the past were won; they were won by plant occupations, mass pickets, physically blocking scabs, self defense against union goons as well as the police, etc.

Since the union leadership is committed NOT to do anything remotely like this, they are also committed not to fighting for anything that will inspire workers. As well, they are willing to grant concession after concession.

It is so unfortunate that the ILWU leadership apparantly is not varying from this tragic script. Before things really even got serious, they announced that they were willing to give up jobs. How, then, can they build among the unemployed andunderemployed? How can the build support among low wage workers?

also, the ILWU leadership is relying on the leaders of the rest of the AFL-CIO to build support. These are the same leaders who are unwilling to mobilize their members to defend their own union. How can they be expected to mobilize to defend the ILWU?

Finally, they are turning (once again) to the Democrats. This is like expecting the fox to protect thehens from the wolf.

At yesterday's anti war rally in San Francisco, there was a speaker from the ILWU, a long time left wing activist who is also an elected ILWu official. It was so tragic that he mentioned not one single difference he has with this leadership. In other, more closed meetings, he has called for the union leadership to be "removed", but yesterday he said nothing of the sort. Just imagine the effece if he had explained these weaknesses, if he had explained that he is helping to build a movement within his union and the entire labor movement for a return to the methods of the 1930s, and if he had explained the vital role of the youth in helping develop this movement. Imagine if he had called for the youth to get involved in this campaign, if he had put forward some concrete proposals for linking up the young, anti-capitalist movement with the rank and file of the labor movement. Imagine what could have been initiated.

It is tragic and so frustrating to see the same path being followed once again and to see those who should be in a position to voice opposition fail to do so.

I am for unity where it s needed. I can see at this point that the bigist topic in this union is fighting they tec. addvance that is in ever corner of our life from TVs to CARS to PHONES TO biulding these things. you will not win that fight. If I was the owner of any company I would work with my employes to be a part of the progress because the tax incentives are there for this to work. I agree that white calur or blue, due recive an very unbalence portion of the payroll. The way I think the bulk of the US people see what you are doing is to tell the company what to do. Dont missunderstand this statement as being against unity because unions were needed because of what the companies were doing to the people. Unions have contributed a great deal to the work place all over the world. The negative is today is the fact that unoins are now doing to the companys what the companys did to the empleyees. I have a few freinds that were in the union and the union failed to stand behind them. due to stricking for somthing that was crazy and being warned by two companys that if you strick we will be forced to close the doors and they failed to hed this warning and take into consideration the number of jobs that would be lost because union leaders stated that this was a scare tactic. Over 16,000 jobs were lost because the union struck and remember that 20% of these jobs were non union. How can the union expect support by any one when you are putting people out of jobs union and non-union while only saving a few jobs and its those top 40% that will servive in the long range plane.
History has shown this to be true. When I was but in to the posision to eather joyn the union or not I elected not to because of what the union did to people in the lonr run when true iteme were not concedered and I was putinto danger and my life put into danger be cause I did not beleave in what they stood for. What happen to fredom of chouse??? Change your way of thinking and I will support what you are doing. Put me out of a job and I will fight aganst you...

Here's how to solve part of the unemployment problem AND get the docks back to work.

Fire all the union workers who refuse to work and replace them with the unemployed are DYING to find work -- any work. Why should a bunch of ungrateful, lazy sons-of-bitches take away MY opportunity to work. I actually would do the job instead of whining to my union.

This is a threat to the reactionary scabs posting on the list--if you cross a picket, any picket, me and other members of the working class WILL kill you. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you from under which you reared your pathetic head and practice your fascistic anti-workerism in the dark where it belongs. And to the long posting by Guy Taylor, come the fuck off it--you're some over-educated right wing ideologue posing as a dumbass, replete with intentional misspellings, for sympathy. You're a scab too.

The Saint

This is a threat to the reactionary scabs posting on the list--if you cross a picket, any picket, me and other members of the working class WILL kill you. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you from under which you reared your pathetic head and practice your fascistic anti-workerism in the dark where it belongs. And to the long posting by Guy Taylor, come the fuck off it--you're some over-educated right wing ideologue posing as a dumbass, replete with intentional misspellings, for sympathy. You're a scab too.

The Saint

This is a threat to the reactionary scabs posting on the list--if you cross a picket, any picket, me and other members of the working class WILL kill you. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you from under which you reared your pathetic head and practice your fascistic anti-workerism in the dark where it belongs. And to the long posting by Guy Taylor, come the fuck off it--you're some over-educated right wing ideologue posing as a dumbass, replete with intentional misspellings, for sympathy. You're a scab too.

The Saint

This is a threat to the reactionary scabs posting on the list--if you cross a picket, any picket, me and other members of the working class WILL kill you. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you from under which you reared your pathetic head and practice your fascistic anti-workerism in the dark where it belongs. And to the long posting by Guy Taylor, come the fuck off it--you're some over-educated right wing ideologue posing as a dumbass, replete with intentional misspellings, for sympathy. You're a scab too.

The Saint

This is a threat to the reactionary scabs posting on the list--if you cross a picket, any picket, me and other members of the working class WILL kill you. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you from under which you reared your pathetic head and practice your fascistic anti-workerism in the dark where it belongs. And to the long posting by Guy Taylor, come the fuck off it--you're some over-educated right wing ideologue posing as a dumbass, replete with intentional misspellings, for sympathy. You're a scab too.

The Saint

This is a threat to the reactionary scabs posting on the list--if you cross a picket, any picket, me and other members of the working class WILL kill you. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you from under which you reared your pathetic head and practice your fascistic anti-workerism in the dark where it belongs. And to the long posting by Guy Taylor, come the fuck off it--you're some over-educated right wing ideologue posing as a dumbass, replete with intentional misspellings, for sympathy. You're a scab too.

The Saint

This is a threat to the reactionary scabs posting on the list--if you cross a picket, any picket, me and other members of the working class WILL kill you. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you from under which you reared your pathetic head and practice your fascistic anti-workerism in the dark where it belongs. And to the long posting by Guy Taylor, come the fuck off it--you're some over-educated right wing ideologue posing as a dumbass, replete with intentional misspellings, for sympathy. You're a scab too.

The Saint

This is a threat to the reactionary scabs posting on the list--if you cross a picket, any picket, me and other members of the working class WILL kill you. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you from under which you reared your pathetic head and practice your fascistic anti-workerism in the dark where it belongs. And to the long posting by Guy Taylor, come the fuck off it--you're some over-educated right wing ideologue posing as a dumbass, replete with intentional misspellings, for sympathy. You're a scab too.

The Saint

This is a threat to the reactionary scabs posting on the list--if you cross a picket, any picket, me and other members of the working class WILL kill you. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you from under which you reared your pathetic head and practice your fascistic anti-workerism in the dark where it belongs. And to the long posting by Guy Taylor, come the fuck off it--you're some over-educated right wing ideologue posing as a dumbass, replete with intentional misspellings, for sympathy. You're a scab too.

The Saint

This is a threat to the reactionary scabs posting on the list--if you cross a picket, any picket, me and other members of the working class WILL kill you. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you from under which you reared your pathetic head and practice your fascistic anti-workerism in the dark where it belongs. And to the long posting by Guy Taylor, come the fuck off it--you're some over-educated right wing ideologue posing as a dumbass, replete with intentional misspellings, for sympathy. You're a scab too.

The Saint

This is a threat to the reactionary scabs posting on the list--if you cross a picket, any picket, me and other members of the working class WILL kill you. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you from under which you reared your pathetic head and practice your fascistic anti-workerism in the dark where it belongs. And to the long posting by Guy Taylor, come the fuck off it--you're some over-educated right wing ideologue posing as a dumbass, replete with intentional misspellings, for sympathy. You're a scab too.

The Saint

This is a threat to the reactionary scabs posting on the list--if you cross a picket, any picket, me and other members of the working class WILL kill you. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you from under which you reared your pathetic head and practice your fascistic anti-workerism in the dark where it belongs. And to the long posting by Guy Taylor, come the fuck off it--you're some over-educated right wing ideologue posing as a dumbass, replete with intentional misspellings, for sympathy. You're a scab too.

The Saint

This is a threat to the reactionary scabs posting on the list--if you cross a picket, any picket, me and other members of the working class WILL kill you. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you from under which you reared your pathetic head and practice your fascistic anti-workerism in the dark where it belongs. And to the long posting by Guy Taylor, come the fuck off it--you're some over-educated right wing ideologue posing as a dumbass, replete with intentional misspellings, for sympathy. You're a scab too.

The Saint

This is a threat to the reactionary scabs posting on the list--if you cross a picket, any picket, me and other members of the working class WILL fuck you up. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you from under which you reared your pathetic head and practice your fascistic anti-workerism in the dark where it belongs. And to the long posting by Guy Taylor, come the fuck off it--you're some over-educated right wing ideologue posing as a dumbass, replete with intentional misspellings, for sympathy. You're a scab too.

The Saint

This is a threat to the reactionary scabs posting on the list--if you cross a picket, any picket, me and other members of the working class WILL fuck you up. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you from under which you reared your pathetic head and practice your fascistic anti-workerism in the dark where it belongs. And to the long posting by Guy Taylor, come the fuck off it--you're some over-educated right wing ideologue posing as a dumbass, replete with intentional misspellings, for sympathy. You're a scab too.

The Saint

This is a threat to the reactionary scabs posting on the list--if you cross a picket, any picket, me and other members of the working class WILL fuck you up. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you from under which you reared your pathetic head and practice your fascistic anti-workerism in the dark where it belongs. And to the long posting by Guy Taylor, come the fuck off it--you're some over-educated right wing ideologue posing as a dumbass, replete with intentional misspellings, for sympathy. You're a scab too.

The Saint

This is a threat to the reactionary scabs posting on the list--if you cross a picket, any picket, me and other members of the working class WILL fuck you up. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you from under which you reared your pathetic head and practice your fascistic anti-workerism in the dark where it belongs. And to the long posting by Guy Taylor, come the fuck off it--you're some over-educated right wing ideologue posing as a dumbass, replete with intentional misspellings, for sympathy. You're a scab too.

The Saint

This is a threat to the reactionary scabs posting on the list--if you cross a picket, any picket, me and other members of the working class WILL fuck you up. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you from under which you reared your pathetic head and practice your fascistic anti-workerism in the dark where it belongs. And to the long posting by Guy Taylor, come the fuck off it--you're some over-educated right wing ideologue posing as a dumbass, replete with intentional misspellings, for sympathy. You're a scab too.

The Saint

This is a threat to the reactionary scabs posting on the list--if you cross a picket, any picket, me and other members of the working class WILL fuck you up. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you from under which you reared your pathetic head and practice your fascistic anti-workerism in the dark where it belongs. And to the long posting by Guy Taylor, come the fuck off it--you're some over-educated right wing ideologue posing as a dumbass, replete with intentional misspellings, for sympathy. You're a scab too.

The Saint

This is a threat to the reactionary scabs posting on the list--if you cross a picket, any picket, me and other members of the working class WILL fuck you up. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you from under which you reared your pathetic head and practice your fascistic anti-workerism in the dark where it belongs. And to the long posting by Guy Taylor, come the fuck off it--you're some over-educated right wing ideologue posing as a dumbass, replete with intentional misspellings, for sympathy. You're a scab too.

The Saint

This is a threat to the reactionary scabs posting on the list--if you cross a picket, any picket, me and other members of the working class WILL fuck you up. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you from under which you reared your pathetic head and practice your fascistic anti-workerism in the dark where it belongs. And to the long posting by Guy Taylor, come the fuck off it--you're some over-educated right wing ideologue posing as a dumbass, replete with intentional misspellings, for sympathy. You're a scab too.

The Saint

This is a threat to the reactionary scabs posting on the list--if you cross a picket, any picket, me and other members of the working class WILL fuck you up. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you from under which you reared your pathetic head and practice your fascistic anti-workerism in the dark where it belongs. And to the long posting by Guy Taylor, come the fuck off it--you're some over-educated right wing ideologue posing as a dumbass, replete with intentional misspellings, for sympathy. You're a scab too.

The Saint

This is a threat to the reactionary scabs posting on the list--if you cross a picket, any picket, me and other members of the working class WILL fuck you up. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you from under which you reared your pathetic head and practice your fascistic anti-workerism in the dark where it belongs. And to the long posting by Guy Taylor, come the fuck off it--you're some over-educated right wing ideologue posing as a dumbass, replete with intentional misspellings, for sympathy. You're a scab too.

The Saint

This is a threat to the reactionary scabs posting on the list--if you cross a picket, any picket, me and other members of the working class WILL fuck you up. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you from under which you reared your pathetic head and practice your fascistic anti-workerism in the dark where it belongs. And to the long posting by Guy Taylor, come the fuck off it--you're some over-educated right wing ideologue posing as a dumbass, replete with intentional misspellings, for sympathy. You're a scab too.

The Saint

This is a threat to the reactionary scabs posting on the list--if you cross a picket, any picket, me and other members of the working class WILL fuck you up. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you from under which you reared your pathetic head and practice your fascistic anti-workerism in the dark where it belongs. And to the long posting by Guy Taylor, come the fuck off it--you're some over-educated right wing ideologue posing as a dumbass, replete with intentional misspellings, for sympathy. You're a scab too.

The Saint

This is a threat to the reactionary scabs posting on the list--if you cross a picket, any picket, me and other members of the working class WILL fuck you up. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you from under which you reared your pathetic head and practice your fascistic anti-workerism in the dark where it belongs. And to the long posting by Guy Taylor, come the fuck off it--you're some over-educated right wing ideologue posing as a dumbass, replete with intentional misspellings, for sympathy. You're a scab too.

The Saint

This is a threat to the reactionary scabs posting on the list--if you cross a picket, any picket, me and other members of the working class WILL fuck you up. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you from under which you reared your pathetic head and practice your fascistic anti-workerism in the dark where it belongs. And to the long posting by Guy Taylor, come the fuck off it--you're some over-educated right wing ideologue posing as a dumbass, replete with intentional misspellings, for sympathy. You're a scab too.

The Saint

This is a threat to the reactionary scabs posting on the list--if you cross a picket, any picket, me and other members of the working class WILL fuck you up. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you from under which you reared your pathetic head and practice your fascistic anti-workerism in the dark where it belongs. And to the long posting by Guy Taylor, come the fuck off it--you're some over-educated right wing ideologue posing as a dumbass, replete with intentional misspellings, for sympathy. You're a scab too.

The Saint

This is a threat to the reactionary scabs posting on the list--if you cross a picket, any picket, me and other members of the working class WILL fuck you up. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you from under which you reared your pathetic head and practice your fascistic anti-workerism in the dark where it belongs. And to the long posting by Guy Taylor, come the fuck off it--you're some over-educated right wing ideologue posing as a dumbass, replete with intentional misspellings, for sympathy. You're a scab too.

The Saint

This is a threat to the reactionary scabs posting on the list--if you cross a picket, any picket, me and other members of the working class WILL fuck you up. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you from under which you reared your pathetic head and practice your fascistic anti-workerism in the dark where it belongs. And to the long posting by Guy Taylor, come the fuck off it--you're some over-educated right wing ideologue posing as a dumbass, replete with intentional misspellings, for sympathy. You're a scab too.

The Saint

This is a threat to the reactionary scabs posting on the list--if you cross a picket, any picket, me and other members of the working class WILL fuck you up. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you from under which you reared your pathetic head and practice your fascistic anti-workerism in the dark where it belongs. And to the long posting by Guy Taylor, come the fuck off it--you're some over-educated right wing ideologue posing as a dumbass, replete with intentional misspellings, for sympathy. You're a scab too.

The Saint

This is a threat to the reactionary scabs posting on the list--if you cross a picket, any picket, me and other members of the working class WILL fuck you up. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you from under which you reared your pathetic head and practice your fascistic anti-workerism in the dark where it belongs. And to the long posting by Guy Taylor, come the fuck off it--you're some over-educated right wing ideologue posing as a dumbass, replete with intentional misspellings, for sympathy. You're a scab too.

The Saint

This is a threat to the reactionary scabs posting on the list--if you cross a picket, any picket, me and other members of the working class WILL fuck you up. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you from under which you reared your pathetic head and practice your fascistic anti-workerism in the dark where it belongs. And to the long posting by Guy Taylor, come the fuck off it--you're some over-educated right wing ideologue posing as a dumbass, replete with intentional misspellings, for sympathy. You're a scab too.

The Saint

This is a threat to the reactionary scabs posting on the list--if you cross a picket, any picket, me and other members of the working class WILL fuck you up. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you from under which you reared your pathetic head and practice your fascistic anti-workerism in the dark where it belongs. And to the long posting by Guy Taylor, come the fuck off it--you're some over-educated right wing ideologue posing as a dumbass, replete with intentional misspellings, for sympathy. You're a scab too.

The Saint

They are not pickets. They are informational signs. You are not on strike. Your jobs are guaranteed with a payraise from $118,000 a yr. to $134,000 ayr. and an increase of 47,000 to your benifit package over 5 yrs. Sign the fucking contract. We who do twice the work that you do will get our 45,000 this yr. and be grateful.

These $100K/yr longshoreman are hurting their fellow working class citizens. Truckers are out of merchandise to haul, farmers can't move their food, other countries won't be receiving the goods they need to sustain their own people. They are hurting the little people.

Besides, this is all political. They and their Democratic buddies are trying to shift the focus of the upcoming election to the economy. The ILWU contract ran out in spring. They could have gone into action then. Instead, they waited until a month before the election to have a work slowdown and then get locked out? This is too obvious, and it's going to backfire in their face.

http://www.indybay.org/news/2002/10/153317.php

Vincent St John's suggestion on how to deal with scabs is right on target. We should all have the same attitude. Scabs are gutless wonders, who will only cross a picket line under protection of armed escort, security guards, cops, or troops-Ken Morgan

The workers aren't doing shit. The PMA LOCKED THEM OUT of the docks, you fool. Blame the PMA not the workers, who are merely fighting for new jobs remaining under the union.

Sign the PMA's lame offer and watch the union be killed by attrtition as the new jobs go to non-union workers who get ovberworked and underpaid, thus putting the remaining dock workers who actually make you your overpaid salary? I don't think so asshole!

Why should these guys have their $100K/year jobs protected from the progress of new technologies?

Shit, maybe my cousin the typewriter repairman should've gone on strike when the IBM PC came to market.

And he didn't even make 20% of what these pompous assholes make. This sounds like a Major League Baseball kind of strike to me.

So Blah, someone making $100,000 a years means they should be attacked by not only the exploitative capitalists, but by assholes like you. Creeps like you must hope that we all are forced to live on $5,000 a year so that we're not "selfish". And then what does that make the bosses of capital who make trillions without even breaking a sweat? GO FUCK YOURSELF!

The Saint

PS You're such a compassionless, spineless twit. 5 longshoremen died this year and it's not just about money.

"PS You're such a compassionless, spineless twit. 5 longshoremen died this year and it's not just about money. "

This from a man who, in another post, advocated the murder, yes murder, of people who disagree from his worldview.

And I'm uncompassionate.

Let's clarify this--anyone crossing a picket deserves to not live. That means you too, if you decide to stop being "unselfish" and cross that line to steal someone else's job--as a scab. And this is not a "worldview", it's a line of stuggle between classes and if you pose as a worker while being a stooge of the bosses, you will be put in the place of all Judases. Simple as that.

Capitalism is fucking happy to have dupes like you who will reduce their own wages to unselfishly make selfish capitalists even richer. You're altruistic against your own interests. What a pathetic little martyr.

Vince

This Graph speaks for itself. Any worker that can't see something is wrong with this picture needs to go get some mental help ... hopefully on their own nickle.

The PMA LOCKED THEM OUT of the docks because they were engaging in a work slowdown, you fool. This is not a new tactic for the unions.

When the election is over and this whole thing gets wrapped up, words gonna get out how the ILWA members were USED by their union bosses and the Democrats to try and shift the focus of the election. I'll be here to rub your noses into it.

Simple solution. Introduce the technology. Make the site at the terminals. Let the ILWU run the technology. Of coarse, use the ones who can read and learn. Sinse the union was forced to hire illiterates.

President Bush is intervening by forming a board in inquiry to determine whether or not both parties are negotiating in good faith. He can then order an "80 day cooling off period" under Taft-Hartley which would force the longshoremen back to work. During that time they could continue to negotiate, but there's no reason to shut down the whole Pacific seaboard over this. They are hurting their fellow American truckers, farmers, railroaders, etc..... directly, which will hurt the American people as a whole.

> blah, please don't misquote
> by The Saint • Monday October 07, 2002 at 12:35 AM

> "Let's clarify this--anyone crossing a picket deserves to not live. That means you too, if you decide to stop being "unselfish" and cross that line to steal someone else's job--as a scab. And this is not a "worldview", it's a line of stuggle between classes and if you pose as a worker while being a stooge of the bosses, you will be put in the place of all Judases. Simple as that."

> "Capitalism is fucking happy to have dupes like you who will reduce their own wages to unselfishly make selfish capitalists even richer. You're altruistic against your own interests. What a pathetic little martyr."

> Vince

Let me help you through your awful problem, Vince.

1. Making the threats you have in this thread is illegal and likely to get you arrested. Would you care to publicly withdraw them now?

2. Union members do not "own" their jobs and you cannot, under the law, prevent another worker ("scabs", as you call them) from taking the place of someone who chooses NOT to work. So get that crazy notion about "owning" jobs out of your head.

Scabs, those who have the guts to stand up to union goons to protect their own rights and feed their families, are far more honorable then those idiots like you, Vince.

3. If you are not happy with democracy and that which makes you rich at the expense of the poor who your union wages prevent from getting jobs; and you do not like the fact that this country rejects your outright totalitarian socialism, you can take a hike to what ever socialist country you like. They're plenty who will pay your one-way fare.

4. Americans are sick and tired of your childish whining. Grow up, and get an education you whiner. This will remain a free country despite your attempts to change that fact.

Now, we'll see if you have the GUTS to retract your threats.

To Sam B. personally,

If you or anyone crossed any picket line of workers engaged in struggle, I or another working sister or brother WOULD FUCK YOU UP! Unequivocally, with no minced words or pleasantries. Why don't you post your reactionary, anti-worker fascistic boss fetishism in a place where you're accepted. This place is for "independent" media. You come of like a right-wing business paper without the ability to articulate your ideology. Why do you think your pro-business opinions have any affinity with the progressives who post things here?

The Saint

I've seen him bothering other IMC sites too.

He's like that homeless guy in SF who's been picked up by EMTs 120 times already . . . just keeps being belligerent over and over.

This info is basically useless without any other analysis to assist it. The rise in income is meaningless without the costs of everything else.

Are YOU a homeowner in CA?

Saint, since you're all full of piss and vinegar, perhaps you wouldn't mind posting your email address and/or phone number? I am sure that it would save the authorities a ton of trouble.

Or, are you too busy telling people that you intend to kill/assault them?

My gods, what is with all the violent, hateful propaganda in this place? Isn't the 'independant' media supposed to be a place where people can express their opinions, no matter how non-mainstream, and not have people trying to silence or threaten them in various ways? I have been looking at this site for a while now, and all I see over and over again is this rhetoric of 'believe as I do or I will kill you.' Hatred and violence are never a reasonable answer to much of anything. All of you repeating this rhetoric is worse then even the mass media. At least the mass media makes an attempt at couching their scare tactics and such with at least pretences of logical debate, but I have seen no such attempt here what so ever. All you do is repeat over and over again the same vile hatred of anyone who disagrees with you in any way. As Sam B. mentioned, oh the field day any court would have with all the death threats and harasment here if any of you were actually forced to be responsible for your words.

And now, I know I'm going to get a deluge of the same rhetoric of 'believe as I do or I will kill you, you right-wing facist', and so I will say this before you get the chance. I am an anarchist. I believe that all people should be free to do as they wish, so long as they are willing to take responsibilty for your actions. You are the ones being the facists here.

Have fun in your cesspool of hatred.

No mercy for scabs, EVER. No retraction for anti-work reactionaries either. Why do my posts get yanked while Sam B. can spew his right-wing ideology? Is this "Indy" Media or Middle-of-the-Road Media where mediocre civility reigns? What's up?

Vince

What do you mean by claiming your post got yanked? There are 34 repetitions of just one of your comments. What post did you make that got yanked?

Why don't you meet me at the Mersk dock in West Oak-town tomorrow. I'll be carrying the sign saying "Support Class Struggle: SMASH ALL SCABS". I'll tell you what I think to your face. O.K.?

Vince

Dear Loki DarkFox are you really an Anarchist? You sound more like an individualist, which to my reading of philosophy is rooted in some pretty conservative ideas? Does this mean that you are against collective activity of workers? Do you reject the working class because they are not vegan or because they don't act individually in their struggles? Would you take a job on the waterfront or are you against all technology--meaning are you a primitivist who even rejects the toothbrush? Just asking. -Steve

Just hang in there - there's a ton of good info on here and some interesting people. I'm glad that you're posting now and not just looking anymore. It's healthy to have a voice.

I generally ignore posts that are belligerent - about 50% of them - but the stuff that isn't is great!

Actually, that is a damn good question. To be honest I am not really sure what to call myself, or even how to truely define what I believe in. And I'd like to thank you very much. This is the first reply to me that I have seen that has actually tried to be helpful and informative. I have seen no form, or even any very cohesive theory, of government that I feel very comfortable in really suporting. From what I've read, anarchism, by it's base meaning, is from 'an arch' or 'without king', and has much to do with the idea of not having any strong central power leading. That is the major part of what I would like to see happen, a lack of central authority. People living respectfully with each other, each doing what they want without violating anybody elses freedoms and without a major central authority enforcing it. But I also know that that won't happen any millenia soon and without some kind of central authority things would quickly happen just as they have happened in the past, the people who have the power, whatever form that power takes, forcing the people without the power to support them and then going at the other people with power.

But anyhow, I digress into self observation, which is likely not what you want to hear. I am not against worker unification. I am all for people standing up together in support of what they feel they deserve. And obviously I'm not a primitivist, otherwise it'd be rather hypocritical that all this is happening online. I am in full support of technological advances, within reason.

What I do object to is the continual statement of 'either believe in exactly what I believe in, or you are a <insert favored insults for whatever the oposition to your opinion is> bastard, and I will <kill / maim / harrass / insult / whatever other favorite tactic> you if you don't shut up and fuck off right now'. That is the only thing I am protesting. I don't pay much attention to the news really, and now I'm trying to learn more about things, and so I don't know enough yet to have a cohesive argument about the actual issues. But I am trying to fix what I see as wrong that I do know enough to fix, which is the anger and hatred.

I didn't notice your post until after I made that last reply. I'd like to thank you leaf. I was really starting to get worried about that.

...go to your nearest video rental or libary and check out the documentary "Harlan County USA" about striking Appalachian coal miners in the early 70s and the shit they had to put up with the company goons and the duplicity of politicians. Those saying the ILWU are "thugs" obviously are getting it backwards by confusing the exploited with the exploiters. If Bush calls in the military--the real goons/thugs of the whole world--we'll see who the real thugs are. As for the workers and their families organizing in Harlan County back then, there never was a question of what side they were on, even when many realized the ineffectiveness of their union against the onslaught of capitalist power the bosses could draw on. There's even a song, "Which Side Are You On", that they all sang that dates back to miners strikes in the 1930s. Then, like now on the waterfront, there are NO fence sitters. WHICH SIDE ARE YOU ON?

The Saint

...go to your nearest video rental or libary and check out the documentary "Harlan County USA" about striking Appalachian coal miners in the early 70s and the shit they had to put up with the company goons and the duplicity of politicians. Those saying the ILWU are "thugs" obviously are getting it backwards by confusing the exploited with the exploiters. If Bush calls in the military--the real goons/thugs of the whole world--we'll see who the real thugs are. As for the workers and their families organizing in Harlan County back then, there never was a question of what side they were on, even when many realized the ineffectiveness of their union against the onslaught of the capitalist power the bosses could draw on. There's even a song, "Which Side Are You On", that they all sang that dates back to miners strikes in the 1930s. Then, like now on the waterfront, there are NO fence sitters. WHICH SIDE ARE YOU ON?

Bill

Let me make myself perfectly clear, Vince. If you or one of your prissy thugs lays one finger on me I'll have you in jail so fast that you'll all need an extra diaper change.

Is that clear?

Since you don't seem to understand that there's nothing "progressive" about threatening people, violating their individual rights, or advocating anti-American violence , I suggest you get an education real fast.

You are the very reason unions are dying and will die unless they are reformed. I suggest you take your blinders off and study the Constitution. And remember, if you don't like it, there's a one-way ticket to Somalia waiting for you where you'll feel at home.

Now, run home to mommy for a diaper change, Vince.

Fire all those jerks and advertise that 10,500 jobs are available, no experience necessary, starting at 50k a year with full benefits. Problem solved.

This isn't a coal miners strike or an auto workers strike or a teachers strike -- each have their distincitve characteristics.

This is a strike by the ILWU about who "owns" the tech jobs. The dockworkers say they do and management says different. So far, it doesn't seem as if the public is going to back ILWU on this one.

I wonder how the 5,000 temporarily unemployed auto workers in Fremont feel about the ILWU -- mixed feelings I'd guess.

I wonder how the tens of thousands of unemployed Bay Area tech workers feel about unskilled dockworkers "owning" computer/tech jobs -- probably less then supportive.

it's a management lockout. Do you really think the progressive thing to do is support the shipping line owners? Teamsters are honoring the picket lines by the ILWU to prevent scabbing. If you've ever worked in an auto factory you'd know the relief of any shutdown of operations. The UAW, and more importantly the rank and file have often gone on strike in sympathy with other workers invovled in struggle. Again, I reiterate a question: where does all the hostility for the longshoremen come from? Was you grandad a cop in the General Strike of 1934? Are you one now? Do you have stock in shipping lines? Are suddenly capitalists no longer greedy and selfish, now the workers are? If I work at McD's and strike or do a work slowdown for a raise above minimum wage am I all of a sudden "lazy" and "greedy"? But when capitalists reduce wages and cut back on benefits for things like health care is that somehow "unselfish" and "altruistic" because they're more concerned with THEIR profits and the economy? Is the ecomomy more important than human beings to you?

End of questions. Unless you are invested into the systems, why do you argue for said system against the struggles of working people? Do you work? Oh, trust fund--I figured!!!

The Saint

I ask the question..... What's the difference between a major league baseball player and a longshoreman? True, baseball players make millions, but their jobs aren't guaranteed either. Both groups make more than enough to live on. Both groups are small, and have a vested interest in remaining so. What's the difference?

Hey Sam B., why don't you come over to West Oakland find out how fast you can get someone thrown in jail? Or if you're on-duty in another jurisdiction, how fast you can get your pig brothers to throw me in jail.

The Saint

You aren't listening very well. The longshoreman want all rights to tech jobs they aren't even qualified to fill. Now if the ILWU has workers with skill sets that are comparable to the tech workers, then I don't see the problem of hiring within. But that is not what the ILWU is demanding and you know that well enough.

There's no hostility either, except by you with your continual threats of violence.

Back to work, Vince, while you still have a job. The President is ordering you too.

If you want to fight me and the police instead of working then you'll have to take the legal consequences. Oh yes, you'll want to know how that the laws protecting your violence are headed for the trash bin:

Court Upholds Worker’s Suit Against Union Hierarchy For Vicious Strike-related Beating
Worker fights on despite unions’ legal immunities from prosecution for violence

FOR RELEASE: September 26, 2002

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Los Angeles, Calif. (September 26, 2002) — On the eve of Congressional hearings into the national epidemic of union violence, the Los Angeles County Superior Court rejected an attempt by union lawyers to block a worker’s civil suit that was filed after a vicious union beating following a 2001 strike at Hollander Home Fashions.

Issuing its ruling from the bench on Wednesday, the court rejected an attempt by lawyers for the Union of Needletrades, Industrial and Textile Employees (UNITE) to dismiss Matthew Kahn’s suit. This will allow the victim’s claims of civil conspiracy, assault and battery, and intentional infliction of emotional distress to proceed without delay. The court also declined to limit Kahn’s ability to collect civil damages resulting from the union assault and will allow full discovery into the union’s role in the beating.

“This ruling is a small first step toward forcing UNITE to account for its role in this cowardly assault on an innocent man,” said Stefan Gleason, Vice President of the National Right to Work Foundation. “However, because of the numerous special exemptions for union violence enshrined in federal and state criminal and civil laws, Matthew Kahn still faces an uphill battle.”

With the help of attorneys provided by the National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation, Kahn, an employee of Labor Ready, filed suit against UNITE for damages incurred in May 2001 resulting from an apparently premeditated attack by UNITE Organizing Director Ramiro Hernandez and several other union militants that left Kahn with several head lacerations and other injuries. According to the complaint, the union bailed Hernandez out of jail after the assault and continued to employ him. Later investigation showed that Hernandez possesses an extensive arrest record for union-related misconduct.

In United States v. Enmons (1973), the U.S. Supreme Court held that strike-related violence cannot be prosecuted under the Hobbs Act, which criminalizes the obstruction of interstate commerce through violence, threat, or coercion. Numerous other states have enacted similar special exemptions for enforcement of criminal laws during strikes. As a result, thousands of acts of violence (usually directed against non-striking workers) have gone unpunished. In 1999, Governor Gray Davis signed a bill limiting civil liability for unions and union officers that commit acts of violence.

Unfortunately, the vicious union beating of Matthew Kahn is not an isolated incident. The National Institute for Labor Relations Research has recorded almost 10,000 media-reported incidents of union violence since 1975. Experts on labor- and strike-related violence estimate that unreported acts of harassment, vandalism, and violence could swell that figure to 100,000 or more.

The National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation is a nonprofit, charitable organization providing free legal aid to employees whose human or civil rights have been violated by compulsory unionism abuses. The Foundation, which can be contacted toll-free at 1-800-336-3600, is assisting thousands of employees in more than 300 cases nationwide.

Vince along with his ILWA buddies will gladly bend over, grab their ankles and be butt-fucked by the union leaders and the Democratic party just like their union forefathers before them and then turn and say "Thank you sir may I have another." How's it feel to get butt-fucked by the Dems there Vincy ole boy!?!

The PMA isn't fighting to prevent the longshoremen from programming the new generation of Windows or doing web page design in Java script or designing the next generation of microprocessors to replace Intel's Pentium. The issue is eliminating jobs where people physically checked all cargo against the paperwork. The PMA wants to cut jobs like that and simply have it computerized with scanners, like at the supermarket, to read bar code (which, after all isn't a high tech job unless you worked in Silicon Valley years ago designing this already existing technology). Companies like Fed Ex are already doing this, but they deliver envelopes, not multi-ton intermodal cargo containers. And that's not the only demand. The shippers want to break the strength of the hiring halls--just watch the Brando film "On the Waterfront" to see how it was done in the past--and it's ability to fairly distribute work. And pensions. Lots of mundane bread-and-butter issues that wouldn't get all you anti-worker techno-geeks to post anything at all. It's just you restating what you read in the biased newspapers--the most sensationalized and the most distorted.

If this is Indy Media, why do all you muddle-brained conservatives just dish up what the bourgeois press already peddles, just less articulately?

The Saint

My suggestion. CLOSE all 29 docks on the West Coast, for good. Fire every longshoreman and allied laborer. Move the entire operation to ports in Mexico. They work for less, they are happy to have the work, and the U.S. economy is no longer held hostage by union thugs. Think of the hundreds of billions of dollars saved.

I thought you knee-jerk liberals hated six-figure incomes. These longshoremen are the fatcats crushing our economy, and one is threatening to murder people who want to earn an honest wage.

You just show your ass up to work when the union tells you to (like maybe tomorrow) with your contract extention we got you and enjoy your 80 day cooling off period and use it to shit the cum from the Dem party out your ass and get ready for the next butt-fucking and be a good little puppy dog, OK?

O.K. Dad. I went into work today and told the boss that I want my wages reduced and he didn't have to co-pay my health plan any more. I'll pay for it all myself. I offered to be his slave, but he quoted Adam Smith and told me that wage labor, in the end, is more economically productive than chattel slavery.

But I don't get your logic about the longshoremen. If they are such "fat cats" why don't they fire the shipping line pseudo-owners and hire you and all your condederates posting anti-worker messages on this list? They could just hire you guys as temps at minimum wage, no health, pension or any other benefits. They could instill insane, deadly speedup and just find other "warm bodies" to replace you when you get killed, burn out or quit.

I'm proud that I'm no longer a conscious worker, but I've followed your mantra of letting the boss fuck me over and I've finally convinced myself that NO worker deserves over $2,000 a year. Those bad longshoremen were SO greedy to fight for SO much money. And they don't deserve medical/dental either. Fewer and fewer people have health care, so they should "wake up and smell the coffee" at the soup kitchen and accept that they are greedy for expecting it too. Ditto for pensions. And the most greedy thingis expecting OSHA-type protections around safety. What gluttons of selfishness. Work is dangerous. And it can be exciting risking having your arm or leg ripped off. GROW UP & ACCEPT IT--and have fun. Ain't capitalism grand! I love it now that you have shown me the light.

Son of Sam

PS Dad when you get out of prison, are you going to do those fun highjinks again? I hope so!

We won't expect Vince to learn anything since he only reads the union press. He's never heard of the Constitution and believes it's all right to threaten people. He thinks people are supposed to think like him.

But reality is what Vince will one day have to face when, one by one, special union priveleges will be ruled unconstitutional:

Big Labor’s Top Ten Special Privileges

Labor union officials enjoy many extraordinary powers and immunities
that were created by legislatures and the courts. Union officials
claim to rely on the support of rank-and-file workers. Yet, they
clamor in the political arena to secure and expand their
government-granted powers, including the powers to shake down workers
for financial support and even to wage campaigns of violent
retaliation against non-union employees.

The following list of special privileges reveals the extent to which
union bosses have rigged our nation’s labor laws in their favor.

Privilege #1: Exemption from prosecution for union violence. The
most egregious example of organized labor’s special privileges and
immunities is the 1973 United States v. Enmons decision. In it, the
United States Supreme Court held that union violence is exempted from
the Hobbs Act, which makes it a federal crime to obstruct interstate
commerce by robbery or extortion. As a result, thousands of incidents
of violent assaults (directed mostly against workers) by union
militants have gone unpunished. Meanwhile, many states also restrict
the authority of law enforcement to enforce laws during strikes.

Privilege #2: Exemption from anti-monopoly laws. The Clayton Act of
1914 exempts unions from anti-monopoly laws, enabling union officials
to forcibly drive out independent or alternative employee bargaining
groups.

Privilege #3: Power to force employees to accept unwanted union
representation. Monopoly bargaining, or “exclusive representation,”
which is embedded in most of the country’s labor relations statutes,
enables union officials to act as the exclusive bargaining agents of
all employees at a unionized workplace, thereby depriving employees
of the right to make their own employment contracts. For example, the
National Labor Relations Act (NLRA) of 1935, the Federal Labor
Relations Act (FLRA) of 1978, and the Railway Labor Act (RLA) of 1926
prohibit employees from negotiating their own contracts with their
employers or choosing their own workplace representatives.

Privilege #4: Power to collect forced union dues. Unlike other
private organizations, unions can compel individuals to support them
financially. In 28 states under the NLRA (those that have not passed
Right to Work laws), all states under the RLA, on “exclusive federal
enclaves,” and in many states under public sector labor relations
acts, employees may be forced to pay union dues as a condition of
employment, even if they reject union affiliation.

Privilege #5: Unlimited, undisclosed electioneering. The Federal
Election Campaign Act exempts unions from its limits on campaign
contributions and expenditures, as well as some of its reporting
requirements. Union bigwigs can spend unlimited amounts on
communications to members and their families in support of, or
opposition to, candidates for federal office, and they need not
report these expenditures if they successfully claim that union
publications are primarily devoted to other subjects. For years, the
politically active National Education Association (NEA) teacher union
has gotten away with claiming zero political expenditures on its IRS
tax forms!

Privilege #6: Ability to strong-arm employers into negotiations.
Unlike all other parties in the economic marketplace, union officials
can compel employers to bargain with them. The NLRA, FLRA, and RLA
make it illegal for employers to resist a union’s collective
bargaining efforts and difficult for them to counter aggressive and
deceptive campaigns waged by union organizers.

Privilege #7: Right to trespass on an employer’s private property.
The Norris-LaGuardia Act of 1932 (and state anti-injunction acts)
give union activists immunity from injunctions against trespass on an
employer’s property.

Privilege #8: Ability of strikers to keep jobs despite refusing to
work. Unlike other employees, unionized employees in the private
sector have the right to strike; that is, to refuse to work while
keeping their job. In some cases, it is illegal for employers to hire
replacement workers, even to avert bankruptcy. Meanwhile, union
officials demonize replacement workers as “scabs” to set them up for
retaliation.

Privilege #9: Union-only cartels on construction projects. Under
so-called project labor agreements, governments (local, state, or
federal) award contracts for construction on major projects such as
highways, airports, and stadiums exclusively to unionized firms. Such
practices effectively lock-out qualified contractors and employees
who refuse to submit to exclusive union bargaining, forced union
dues, and wasteful union work rules. So far, just three states have
outlawed these discriminatory and costly union-only pacts.

Privilege #10: Government funding of forced unionism. On top of all
of the special powers and immunities granted to organized labor,
politicians even pour taxpayer money straight into union coffers.
Union groups receive upwards of $160 million annually in direct
federal grants. But that’s just the tip of the iceberg. In 2001, the
federal Department of Labor doled out $148 million for “international
labor programs” overwhelmingly controlled by an AFL-CIO front group.
Federal bureaucrats spend approximately $2.6 billion per year on “job
training programs” that, under the Workforce Investment Act, must be
administered by boards filled with union officials. Union bosses also
benefit from a plethora of state and local government giveaways.

http://www.nrtw.org/d/big_labor_special_privileges.htm

ure a gud xampl of a disgruntled younion werker.

ure a gud xampl of a disgruntled younion werker.

ure a gud xampl of a disgruntled younion werker. u keep up the gud fite. u show dem union werkers how stoopid they are, boy howdy!

I can smell a rat. Joe Hill CAN spell and he was with the working class to his dying breath. Actually he wrote about his death by a firing squad after being framed in Utah: "Don't mourn, Organize."

Bill

Son, I tried to teach you the truth but, little kid that you wanted to remain, you wouldn't listen to your dad.

I'll repeat: I am pro-worker but anti-union. You see, son, I have integrity and I believe in democracy. That means that I can't support union monoplies, union violence, and federal laws that give unions special privileges and makes them think they are above the law.

You see, son, unions shouldn't behave like they do. It's wrong and unethical. But they encourage illegal activities and brainwash their members, like the moron Vince, think they are above the law.

So you see, son, I will continue to fight for every worker's rights - the right to be hired without joining a union or paying dues to one and the right to be safeguarded from union violence.

So, you can join me in fighting for what is right or continue to fight for what is wrong. The choice is yours.
But when every state becomes a Right to Work state, we will finally have a country of true democracy.

Anti-union, pro-worker. Lucky for the proletariat, there are some conscious militant workers like Sam out there looking to topple capitalism. I extend my hand in a fraternal communist greeting to you, Sam, a proletarian comrade. Now let's get busy smashing capitalism and the state.

Anton

PS Hey Sam, you hunky worker, what do you look like? What turns you on? Hopefully, me!

Here's what turn's me on, Anton, the truth:

While Presidential Action Could Reopen West Coast Ports, Federal Labor Policy is to Blame for Crisis
Government-granted coercive privileges enable union officials to exploit crisis

FOR RELEASE: October 8, 2002

Washington, D.C. (October 8, 2002) – The following is a statement from Stefan Gleason, Vice President of the National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation on President Bush’s decision to intervene and invoke the Taft-Hartley Act provisions to halt the West Coast ports shutdown involving the International Longshore and Warehouse Union (ILWU):

“Using the union special privileges granted by federal labor law, a small group of union officials have been empowered to hold America’s economy hostage. President Bush’s decision to seek a temporary injunction to open the West Coast ports for shipping is only a temporary solution to a much larger problem.

“If the president is serious about protecting America’s economy and security, he must work to end compulsory unionism in the form of monopoly bargaining and forced union dues. This power gives union officials control over union treasuries, union offices, strike votes, and contract negotiations without fear of workers exercising any practical restraint.

“Union officials have a long history of exploiting national security and economic crises to seek more power. During the Second World War, Big Labor waged 13,000 strikes and work stoppages to impose forced unionism on hundreds of thousands of workers. By the end of World War II, more than 78 percent of unionized employees were governed by contracts that required them to pay union dues as a condition of employment, a fourfold increase. ”

The National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation is a nonprofit, charitable organization providing free legal aid to employees whose human or civil rights have been violated by compulsory unionism abuses. The Foundation, which can be contacted toll-free at 1-800-336-3600, is assisting thousands of employees in more than 300 cases nationwide.

I have been doing a lot of reading on the net about this port slowdown / lockout mess.
I’m confused about who is making key decisions with both the PMA and the ILWU.
Can anyone send me in the right direction to see organizational flowcharts on these?
Thanks

I have been doing a lot of reading on the net about this port slowdown / lockout mess.
I’m confused about who is making key decisions with both the PMA and the ILWU.
Can anyone send me in the right direction to see organizational flowcharts on these?
Thanks

I have been doing a lot of reading on the net about this port slowdown / lockout mess.
I’m confused about who is making key decisions with both the PMA and the ILWU.
Can anyone send me in the right direction to see organizational flowcharts on these?
Thanks