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Indymedia Letter to the Ed?
The problem with Indymedia is that it is simply unreliable
[It's true, anything on here is unreliable and needs to be followed up by people who want to use it. But this criticism fails to point out how important it is to have Indymedia and what an amazing thing it is - jealousy?]
...............................................................................................
yadayadayada and indymedia
Via NY Transfer News * All the News That Doesn't Fit
Check out the URL at the bottom of this article; it contains a specific denial of the story about "being told to kill woman and children." The problem with Indymedia is that it is simply unreliable -- and therefore often contains forged or otherwise undocumented
information, information submitted by people whose e-mail addresses cannot be traced, information that is unverifiable and that can be used against the forces for liberty and democracy. In addition, Indymedia committed the unpardonable sin (in our view) of accepting Soros money, which demonstrates their political stupidity if not any malign intentions. They are ripe for black operations by the CIA designed to discredit the opposition to Bush's police state.
Who knows if the denial is genuine? Who knows if anything posted on
any indymedia site is trustworthy? We think they might be well-meaning, but if so they are totally naive and irresponsible. The alternative choice is that they are unwitting fools for the CIA.
NY Transfer News
Since 1985 - Information for the Rest of Us
We follow no party line; we take no corporate funding, no advertising, and no foundation grants. We are independent, and we built our own ISP to stay that way. We do not accept Soros money, and we never will.
posted on Activist List at yahoo groups (another "free service" we ought to be very careful about...)
"nicholasd108" <nicholasd108 [at] yahoo.com...> wrote:
this shouldn't be news to anyone, but unfortunately denial makes it
sooo...
In bushcon4@y..., "plutonymus" <isidor@v...> wrote:
REALITIES OF WAR (June 5th Feature at Portland Indymedia)
U.S. soldier told to kill women and children in Afghanistan
Some U.S. armed forces were told to kill women and children during
'Operation Anaconda' in Afghanistan, according to the Ithaca (NY)
Journal (http://ithacajournal.com), which interviewed a local soldier
about his experience there. "We were told there were no friendly
forces", said [Army Private Matt] Guckenheimer, an assistant gunner
with the 10th Mountain Division at Fort Drum. "If there was anybody
there, they were the enemy. We were told specifically that if there
were women and children to kill them."
Guckenheimer told the Journal that "he loved learning about tanks
and
guns and watching battle scenes on TV when he was young." He also
mentioned the alienation he noticed in the U.S. upon returning:
"After living in a Third World country, where people he didn't know
would smile or say hello to him on the streets, it was jarring to
return home, where contact among strangers is mostly shunned. "These
people who lived through life, they seemed to be more grounded, "he
said. Coming home was like walking back into a 'clueless' society
where over-consumption is commonly regarded as the route to
happiness, he said."
Full story:
http://portland.indymedia.org:8081/front.php3?article_id=12042&group=webcast
******************************************
I will deflate them with the truth
I will denigrate them with the truth
I will castigate them with the truth
I will humiliate them with the truth
I will ostracize them with the truth
I will pulverize them with the truth
I will pummel them with the truth
I will torment them with the truth
I will harass them with the truth
I will embarrass them with the truth
I will rattle their cages with the truth
I will shake them out of their stupor with the truth
I will expose them with the truth
I will crush them with the truth
I will shock them with the truth
I will clobber them with the truth
I will accuse them with the truth
I will judge them with the truth
I will chastise them with the truth
I will condemn them with the truth
I will obliterate them with the truth
I will annihilate them with the truth
I will blast them to smithereens with the truth
I will knock them off their God damn pedestals with the truth
So help me Pluto,
Isidor
...............................................................................................
yadayadayada and indymedia
Via NY Transfer News * All the News That Doesn't Fit
Check out the URL at the bottom of this article; it contains a specific denial of the story about "being told to kill woman and children." The problem with Indymedia is that it is simply unreliable -- and therefore often contains forged or otherwise undocumented
information, information submitted by people whose e-mail addresses cannot be traced, information that is unverifiable and that can be used against the forces for liberty and democracy. In addition, Indymedia committed the unpardonable sin (in our view) of accepting Soros money, which demonstrates their political stupidity if not any malign intentions. They are ripe for black operations by the CIA designed to discredit the opposition to Bush's police state.
Who knows if the denial is genuine? Who knows if anything posted on
any indymedia site is trustworthy? We think they might be well-meaning, but if so they are totally naive and irresponsible. The alternative choice is that they are unwitting fools for the CIA.
NY Transfer News
Since 1985 - Information for the Rest of Us
We follow no party line; we take no corporate funding, no advertising, and no foundation grants. We are independent, and we built our own ISP to stay that way. We do not accept Soros money, and we never will.
posted on Activist List at yahoo groups (another "free service" we ought to be very careful about...)
"nicholasd108" <nicholasd108 [at] yahoo.com...> wrote:
this shouldn't be news to anyone, but unfortunately denial makes it
sooo...
In bushcon4@y..., "plutonymus" <isidor@v...> wrote:
REALITIES OF WAR (June 5th Feature at Portland Indymedia)
U.S. soldier told to kill women and children in Afghanistan
Some U.S. armed forces were told to kill women and children during
'Operation Anaconda' in Afghanistan, according to the Ithaca (NY)
Journal (http://ithacajournal.com), which interviewed a local soldier
about his experience there. "We were told there were no friendly
forces", said [Army Private Matt] Guckenheimer, an assistant gunner
with the 10th Mountain Division at Fort Drum. "If there was anybody
there, they were the enemy. We were told specifically that if there
were women and children to kill them."
Guckenheimer told the Journal that "he loved learning about tanks
and
guns and watching battle scenes on TV when he was young." He also
mentioned the alienation he noticed in the U.S. upon returning:
"After living in a Third World country, where people he didn't know
would smile or say hello to him on the streets, it was jarring to
return home, where contact among strangers is mostly shunned. "These
people who lived through life, they seemed to be more grounded, "he
said. Coming home was like walking back into a 'clueless' society
where over-consumption is commonly regarded as the route to
happiness, he said."
Full story:
http://portland.indymedia.org:8081/front.php3?article_id=12042&group=webcast
******************************************
I will deflate them with the truth
I will denigrate them with the truth
I will castigate them with the truth
I will humiliate them with the truth
I will ostracize them with the truth
I will pulverize them with the truth
I will pummel them with the truth
I will torment them with the truth
I will harass them with the truth
I will embarrass them with the truth
I will rattle their cages with the truth
I will shake them out of their stupor with the truth
I will expose them with the truth
I will crush them with the truth
I will shock them with the truth
I will clobber them with the truth
I will accuse them with the truth
I will judge them with the truth
I will chastise them with the truth
I will condemn them with the truth
I will obliterate them with the truth
I will annihilate them with the truth
I will blast them to smithereens with the truth
I will knock them off their God damn pedestals with the truth
So help me Pluto,
Isidor
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Basically, Portland IMC reprinted an article from the Ithaca Journal which contained a quote from a US soldier returning from Afghanistan. The paper quotes him saying that they were instructed to kill women and children. This is true. However, the soldier wrote a letter to the editor clarifying what he meant, which is that they were instructed that they might have to engage hostile women and children because of the young age of combatants in Afghanistan. However, they were still instructed not to attack non-combatants. This is pretty standard policy and as far as I know, it is not illegal under international law (assuming the military action in general is legal, which isnt necessarily proven although is accepted).
This person now seems to be interested in spamming all the Indymedia sites, using this situation to say that Indymedia is ripe to be used as a tool for COINTELPRO.
Luckily for him, he is able to post his opinion. I am able to post mine. And clear/rational open-ness and dialogue is the best resistance to cointelpro tactics. My opinion is:
1) The nature of Indymedia (allowing this kind of dicussion) is exactly the best way to fight cointelpro tactics. For instance, the Ithaca Journal re-printed the soldier's letter to the editor, but there is no way to have this type of in-depth discussion, utilizing tools available from the Ithaca Journal. We have to use Indymedia to do that.
2) The obvious thing is that this article was just pointed to / posted on an Indymedia site. If it indicts Indymedia, then it indicts the Ithaca Journal and their standard editorial format. And therefore it indicts that standard editorial format in general. The flow of information isn't perfect and it never has been. Open commenting is one way that information flow can be improved.
3) The very nature of the corporate media is to take things out of context and distort them towards political and capitalist ends. For instance, the other comments this soldier makes dont seem to be appearing in corporate media coverage of the war. Isn't this exclusion changing the context in which people are receiving information?
1) There is no email address of the poster, even though the critique itself mentions that confirmation emails should be provided for information.
2) It is not written clearly. You are drawn to the sensational headline which attacks Indymedia, and then you are led into a confusing and jumbled text of meaninglessness. I had to go to Portland IMC, read all the comments there, etc before I even had a clue as to what this was about.