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FBI Detains Ahmed Bensouda, Anarchist Activist in Illinois
FBI seizes computer, files and detains anarchist activist in Urbana-Champaign, IL. Wake up.
Anti-Authoritarian Comrade detained by FBI/INS
Comrades-
Ahmed Bensouda, a member of the Champaign-Urbana based anti-authoritarian collective Unity & Struggle was detained by the FBI, yesterday, Thursday, May 30, at 2:30 pm.
Ahmed, 22 years-old, with Unity & Struggle, has been deeply active in Palestine Solidarity work. The University of Illinois has one of the most visible public campaigns for Israeli Divestment in the country and Ahmed has been a strong part of it. Ahmed has participated in actions against the U of I's racist Chief Illiniwek. He has also been involved in Anti-Racist Action's campaign against the white supremacist and anti-semitic World Church of the Creator. Ahmed has also participated in recent discussions of anti-authoritarian activists in the midwest/Great Lakes region.
Ahmed had been visited recently by the INS for an "interview", part of Ascroft's witchhunt of Arab immigrants/students/activists in the U.S. We have no idea what reason the Feds are using for detention of Ahmed. Last night they would not even confirm that they had him.
Strangely, this morning Ahmed was briefly brought back to his apartment by INS agents, hand-cuffed and shackled, supposedly to "collect clothes". Several of Ahmed's friends and comrades were there, having been tipped off that agents were bringing Ahmed back. His friends report that Ahmed seemed "out-of-it" and "incommunicative". He had very likely been deprived of sleep, questioned, and threatened all night. He did indicate to one friend that the agents were lying when they said that he had been given an oppurtunity to make a phone call and had declined. Ahmed said he had been given no oppurtunity to contact anyone. Ahmed was then taken away again by the agents and is reportedly being held in Springfield, the state capital.
The agents seized computer files from the apartment and reportedly said that they were planning on deporting Ahmed. Ahmed has U.A.E. citizenship (though is of Morroccan/Gambian nationality). Ahmed is in the U.S. legally, and all of his papers are reportedly in good order, so it is unclear on what grounds Ahmed is being threatened with deportation, or if that is even the real reason at all for his detention.
His friends and comrades have obtained the services of a Chicago-based attorney with a good rep, but this will undoubtedly be expensive. Family members in the U.S. have been contacted and are supportive of our efforts.
Comrades, this is no time to be shy. One of our own has been seized by the State on purely racist and/or political grounds. We must answer this challenge. There is a need for pickets/demos and other appropriate action at U.S Federal buildings, Embassies, and Consulates demanding the immediate release of Ahmed Bensouda, the release of thousands of other Arabs and Muslims detained in the U.S. without cause, hands off the Palestine Solidarity movement, and hands off anti-authoritarian activists.
There will be active committees in both the Chicago and Champaign-Urbana areas, but we must make this an national, and international campaign.
For more information check the Champaign-Urbana Indymedia Center site, which has devoted a page to Ahmed's case: http://www.ucimc.org
For those who want to become part of core-organizing on this case please join foa [at] lists.cu.groogroo.com
An Injury to One is an Injury to All!
Free Ahmed Bensouda! Release all Arab and Muslim Detainees! Hands off the Palestine Solidarity Movement! Hands off Anti-Authoritarian activists!
Solidarity,
Anti-Racist Action (Chicago)
Comrades-
Ahmed Bensouda, a member of the Champaign-Urbana based anti-authoritarian collective Unity & Struggle was detained by the FBI, yesterday, Thursday, May 30, at 2:30 pm.
Ahmed, 22 years-old, with Unity & Struggle, has been deeply active in Palestine Solidarity work. The University of Illinois has one of the most visible public campaigns for Israeli Divestment in the country and Ahmed has been a strong part of it. Ahmed has participated in actions against the U of I's racist Chief Illiniwek. He has also been involved in Anti-Racist Action's campaign against the white supremacist and anti-semitic World Church of the Creator. Ahmed has also participated in recent discussions of anti-authoritarian activists in the midwest/Great Lakes region.
Ahmed had been visited recently by the INS for an "interview", part of Ascroft's witchhunt of Arab immigrants/students/activists in the U.S. We have no idea what reason the Feds are using for detention of Ahmed. Last night they would not even confirm that they had him.
Strangely, this morning Ahmed was briefly brought back to his apartment by INS agents, hand-cuffed and shackled, supposedly to "collect clothes". Several of Ahmed's friends and comrades were there, having been tipped off that agents were bringing Ahmed back. His friends report that Ahmed seemed "out-of-it" and "incommunicative". He had very likely been deprived of sleep, questioned, and threatened all night. He did indicate to one friend that the agents were lying when they said that he had been given an oppurtunity to make a phone call and had declined. Ahmed said he had been given no oppurtunity to contact anyone. Ahmed was then taken away again by the agents and is reportedly being held in Springfield, the state capital.
The agents seized computer files from the apartment and reportedly said that they were planning on deporting Ahmed. Ahmed has U.A.E. citizenship (though is of Morroccan/Gambian nationality). Ahmed is in the U.S. legally, and all of his papers are reportedly in good order, so it is unclear on what grounds Ahmed is being threatened with deportation, or if that is even the real reason at all for his detention.
His friends and comrades have obtained the services of a Chicago-based attorney with a good rep, but this will undoubtedly be expensive. Family members in the U.S. have been contacted and are supportive of our efforts.
Comrades, this is no time to be shy. One of our own has been seized by the State on purely racist and/or political grounds. We must answer this challenge. There is a need for pickets/demos and other appropriate action at U.S Federal buildings, Embassies, and Consulates demanding the immediate release of Ahmed Bensouda, the release of thousands of other Arabs and Muslims detained in the U.S. without cause, hands off the Palestine Solidarity movement, and hands off anti-authoritarian activists.
There will be active committees in both the Chicago and Champaign-Urbana areas, but we must make this an national, and international campaign.
For more information check the Champaign-Urbana Indymedia Center site, which has devoted a page to Ahmed's case: http://www.ucimc.org
For those who want to become part of core-organizing on this case please join foa [at] lists.cu.groogroo.com
An Injury to One is an Injury to All!
Free Ahmed Bensouda! Release all Arab and Muslim Detainees! Hands off the Palestine Solidarity Movement! Hands off Anti-Authoritarian activists!
Solidarity,
Anti-Racist Action (Chicago)
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This is Lamia Bensouda, Ahmed's sister, and I am just writing to tell everyone in Berkeley, Champaign and wherever else to please stop publicizing and organizing further meetings or demonstrations in solidarity with Ahmed. I sent an email to sjpfolks to stop emailing the list, and my family, Ahmed and
myself would like people to lay off and let us sort out whatever needs to be sorted with his legal defense team. Once again, we appreciate the support, but at this point, when information is scarse we decided it is in the best interest of Ahmed and his family members if this propaganda stops.
Thanks,
Lamia
http://www.ucimc.org/larry/
@%<
He obviously has enough money to move around three continents and, it seems, gasther a collection of citizenships as well as to attend school in the US so he has options.
In addition, he seems a bit worried about the US meddling overseas yet he has no qualms meddling in the US.
Well, I hope he gets tossed out of the US. He can take his money and go to the collection of other countries he actually belongs in.
GO FUCK YOUR SELF BITCH
GO BACK TO THE ROCK YOU CAME OUT FROM UNDER
NO ONE HERE WANTS TO SMELL THE SHIT THAT COMES FROM YOUR MOUTH
Take a chill pill for goodness sakes! You are going to get a heart attack.
Your statement exposes your profound ignorance and intolerance. First, Ahmed is not Iranian, he is Moroccan--but you probably think they all look alike anyway. Second, as a MD-JD student at the University of Illinois, I went to this state school despite its racist mascot for its academic programs. However, since I am here, I and others feel a responsibility to change this situation. People like you who express the "love it or leave it" line need a crash-course in US Constitution and history. Our Constitution protects diverse opinions and does not allow the government to punish people for thought crimes. If you want to live in a place where everyone has to agree with the government then I suggest that you should leave the US and go live in an authoritarian fascist state. Unfortunately, Bush and Ashcroft are dragging our country in that direction and it is up to all of us to be as vocal as possible and let them know that we are against them and on the side of civil liberties and the Bill of Rights.
Oh yeah, and another thing Jan, let me know how the KKK rally went.
Peace,
Fazal
I've been to iran at least 6 times to visit friends ( all female funny enough) and have not come accross this mal treatment you have decided to mention. Most women there do not see covering their hair as such a repulsive injustice as they would what has happened to this poor morrocon student. You have successfully made yourself look highly misinformed and have brought about the possibility that you live on a farm. Your cruel and insensitive comments regarding this poor student add on to your already long list of dirty characteristics. You prove you know nothing about the conflict in the middle east, nor any country in the region as the commments about iran elaborate.
Do you know that in the UK many of us believe that americans are ignorrant thickos who like to give their consequently unappreciated opinions about subjects they know nothing about. You have done extremely well at fortigying this generalised view.
Oh and by the way dear, if you are so against foreigners coming into a country and attempting to change it's regime, I suggest you either write a long letter (in big, bubble font) to your president telling him to leave Iraq and other foreign countries alone, or you leave the US yourself ..no one would miss you dear, except possibly the nazis or the pigs on your farm. Oh and just so you know, not all brits stand shoulder to shoulder with your disgraceful excuse for a democratic country.
I'm not getting one of those big multi letter degrees you have so maybe I can't read as well as you. Where does Jan say this guy Amed is Iranian? I can't find that anywhere on her post? She commented on Iran but she sure didn't say Amed was Iranian.
I also don't see how you can leap to your rabid conclusions that her statement is more than what she wrote: why do people move voluntarily to where they are not happy. If you think its because he can get a better education at Northsoutheastern Illinious State or whatever that school is than he could get in Morrocco say so. Asking that question doesn't make Jan a racist. Get a little maturity or at least learn to answer questions.
As to you Magan.
You ignorant elitist snotty bitch. I grew up on a farm and I'm proud of that fact. What is wrong with coming from a farm. Not everyone can come from high flalooting Nob Hill and guess what -- not everyone wants to. And you are proof that all idiots don't hang around pigs. (By the way, I bet you couldn't keep a pig alive if you tried - even though you seem to think that all farmers are stupid people)
I notice your snobby, elitist anti-farmer attitude hasn't stopped you from eating the food we grow.
AND although you seem to travel frequently to Iran to visit your friends who for some strange reason love being told by men how to dress, you clearly have not been on a farm or you would know that there are farmers who actually go to school, some of us can even use a knife and fork when we eat. Heck, I heard of one farmhouse with indoor plumbing. Course that's on another county.
Yeah, you're a real case Magen. Jan asks a question about one person in Illionois and you call her a racist while insulting all farmers. And you probably don't even see the irony in your behaviour (oh, I forgot, as a farmer I only know cornpone humor, forget that last statement).
I enjoyed reading your carefully written, thoughtful and sensitive piece.
Let me jump on the farmland bandwagon with Jack. I would suspect that Jan is from the Heartland. Not because, as you seem to think, she’s and idiot and idiots are all farmers (by the way, isn’t the village idiot an English/UK concept?). But because her views are PART of a Midwest political tradition.
Now I’m not going to read more into Jan’s writing than is there - she wonders why Mr. Ahmed moved to a location that he hated and then said that SHE doesn’t like Iran and therefore wouldn’t move there (I can’t really understand how you can read that as her being a racist farmer or that she said the Iran women don’t like dressing as they do or, as Mr. F says, Mr. Ahmed is an Iranian but somehow you two have special reading skills).
However, in the later portion of your letter (past the part where you mentioned Jan’s “already long list of dirty characteristics” – I’m assuming from this you either know Jan or its your magical reading skills again) you suggest she tell Mr. Bush to leave other countries. In my experience (as a Heartland native myself, although not a farm family, just made our living off farmers – kind of like you eating) many heartland people don’t want foreigners interfering in the US AND they don’t want the US interfering with other countries. Opposition to foreign wars have always been strong in the Midwest. (Gene McCarthy and G. McGovern were Midwesterners) It is very possible that Jan agrees totally with your statement about the US leaving other countries alone.
Megan, you didn’t grow up on a farm (or maybe you did and that’s what you base your knowledge that farmers are ignorant scum on) so you must know everything and know about the long tradition of Mid-west isolationism. This tradition has strong ties with populism so it shouldn’t be written off as KKK (was it you or Mr.F who could read from Jan’s email that she was a member, I forget?) or even right wing. It is simply a consistent view, somewhat akin to Nessie’s anti-gun control views.
The traditional view that Jan may be trying to state is that one doesn’t go to a neighbor’s house and insult them while eating their food at their table. AND, one doesn’t go uninvited to a neighbor’s house and tell them how to run things. There is much more consistency in Jan saying Amed and Bush leave others alone than in your saying: “Amed, say what you want about the US and Bush leave others alone”. To me it seems strange that you find Amed OK and Bush wrong.
Nowhere does Jan seem to imply “love it or leave it” (again, I don’t have the magic eye you do). The Midwest tradition has been outspoken (look at Wisc Progressive Party), however, her question of “Why come if you don’t like it” (quite different from “love it or leave it”) is a valid one. What about America draws people like Amed and Mr F Esq who come here yet hate it? (with a JD I’m assuming Mr.F statyed). I have my opinion but with you ability to see all and know all Ms. Magen, I guess I don’t have to write it
However, I still have a problem. Maybe this person felt that the United States was meddling in his country's affairs and decided that, since the US historically encourages immigration, dissidence, and participation, that it might be a great idea to swallow his dislike and go there and see if he could not affect change in a peaceful way. Many Americans perhaps do not agree with US interventions but nonetheless they have not been succesful in stopping it; and the individual may have felt that one turn deserved another. Possible, no?
Until American citizens vote in a government that does not consider itself the "world police force" i think you can expect citizens from other countries demanding some accountability in regards to that police force. After all, you wouldn't want strange foreign cops enforcing laws you never voted for in America would you?
I agree with a good deal of what you say but I don't think your example fits.
If Mr. Amed used his time in America to protest the treatment by America of his various homelands I would grant your point. To carry on the neighbor example, this would be similiar to going over to your neighbors because his dog is pooping on your grass.
Mr. Amed was getting involved in events which do not affect his homelands. Personally I don't think he had any business getting involved in the mascot issue.
These still beg the question of why do people who don't like America or the American way of live come here? This is an important question.
There is another thread here at Indy that talks about why America Hates us. To understand the whole picture we should look at why so many in the world both hate the US and love the US. I don't think we can seperate the two issues.
Three stories illustrate this paradox.
This may not be true but I was told by a staff member at the US Embassy in Manila many years ago that Anti-US base and Anti US pickets would march around the Embassy on Roxas Blvd. The embassy used a numbered waiting list for visa processing and this staffer said several people had numbers and put their signs down when their numbers were called, got their paperwork and then went back on the line.
In a case that happened to me. I was addressing a convention in Mumbai, India. Several people took the time to tell me how much they disliked the US lifestyle, etc (a rather strange event in its own right) yet they also asked me if my company had any openings for engineers.
A third example just came to mind. Last month I was in Malaysia talking to some people at a beach resort. One Singaporean told me (in a nice way) how he hated what American culture was doing to the world with McDonalds, etc. A few minutes later he told me "...so I was at the Burger King in Barcelona....:. So he hates the culture yet uses it even when travelling to a third country.
As my partner (from nyc) would say: go figger.
I agree with a good deal of what you say but I don't think your example fits.
If Mr. Amed used his time in America to protest the treatment by America of his various homelands I would grant your point. To carry on the neighbor example, this would be similiar to going over to your neighbors because his dog is pooping on your grass.
Mr. Amed was getting involved in events which do not affect his homelands. Personally I don't think he had any business getting involved in the mascot issue.
These still beg the question of why do people who don't like America or the American way of live come here? This is an important question.
There is another thread here at Indy that talks about why America Hates us. To understand the whole picture we should look at why so many in the world both hate the US and love the US. I don't think we can seperate the two issues.
Three stories illustrate this paradox.
This may not be true but I was told by a staff member at the US Embassy in Manila many years ago that Anti-US base and Anti US pickets would march around the Embassy on Roxas Blvd. The embassy used a numbered waiting list for visa processing and this staffer said several people had numbers and put their signs down when their numbers were called, got their paperwork and then went back on the line.
In a case that happened to me. I was addressing a convention in Mumbai, India. Several people took the time to tell me how much they disliked the US lifestyle, etc (a rather strange event in its own right) yet they also asked me if my company had any openings for engineers.
A third example just came to mind. Last month I was in Malaysia talking to some people at a beach resort. One Singaporean told me (in a nice way) how he hated what American culture was doing to the world with McDonalds, etc. A few minutes later he told me "...so I was at the Burger King in Barcelona....:. So he hates the culture yet uses it even when travelling to a third country.
As my partner (from nyc) would say: go figger.
I agree with a good deal of what you say but I don't think your example fits.
If Mr. Amed used his time in America to protest the treatment by America of his various homelands I would grant your point. To carry on the neighbor example, this would be similiar to going over to your neighbors because his dog is pooping on your grass.
Mr. Amed was getting involved in events which do not affect his homelands. Personally I don't think he had any business getting involved in the mascot issue.
These still beg the question of why do people who don't like America or the American way of live come here? This is an important question.
There is another thread here at Indy that talks about why America Hates us. To understand the whole picture we should look at why so many in the world both hate the US and love the US. I don't think we can seperate the two issues.
Three stories illustrate this paradox.
This may not be true but I was told by a staff member at the US Embassy in Manila many years ago that Anti-US base and Anti US pickets would march around the Embassy on Roxas Blvd. The embassy used a numbered waiting list for visa processing and this staffer said several people had numbers and put their signs down when their numbers were called, got their paperwork and then went back on the line.
In a case that happened to me. I was addressing a convention in Mumbai, India. Several people took the time to tell me how much they disliked the US lifestyle, etc (a rather strange event in its own right) yet they also asked me if my company had any openings for engineers.
A third example just came to mind. Last month I was in Malaysia talking to some people at a beach resort. One Singaporean told me (in a nice way) how he hated what American culture was doing to the world with McDonalds, etc. A few minutes later he told me "...so I was at the Burger King in Barcelona....:. So he hates the culture yet uses it even when travelling to a third country.
As my partner (from nyc) would say: go figger.
I agree with a good deal of what you say but I don't think your example fits.
If Mr. Amed used his time in America to protest the treatment by America of his various homelands I would grant your point. To carry on the neighbor example, this would be similiar to going over to your neighbors because his dog is pooping on your grass.
Mr. Amed was getting involved in events which do not affect his homelands. Personally I don't think he had any business getting involved in the mascot issue.
These still beg the question of why do people who don't like America or the American way of live come here? This is an important question.
There is another thread here at Indy that talks about why America Hates us. To understand the whole picture we should look at why so many in the world both hate the US and love the US. I don't think we can seperate the two issues.
Three stories illustrate this paradox.
This may not be true but I was told by a staff member at the US Embassy in Manila many years ago that Anti-US base and Anti US pickets would march around the Embassy on Roxas Blvd. The embassy used a numbered waiting list for visa processing and this staffer said several people had numbers and put their signs down when their numbers were called, got their paperwork and then went back on the line.
In a case that happened to me. I was addressing a convention in Mumbai, India. Several people took the time to tell me how much they disliked the US lifestyle, etc (a rather strange event in its own right) yet they also asked me if my company had any openings for engineers.
A third example just came to mind. Last month I was in Malaysia talking to some people at a beach resort. One Singaporean told me (in a nice way) how he hated what American culture was doing to the world with McDonalds, etc. A few minutes later he told me "...so I was at the Burger King in Barcelona....:. So he hates the culture yet uses it even when travelling to a third country.
As my partner (from nyc) would say: go figger.
I agree with a good deal of what you say but I don't think your example fits.
If Mr. Amed used his time in America to protest the treatment by America of his various homelands I would grant your point. To carry on the neighbor example, this would be similiar to going over to your neighbors because his dog is pooping on your grass.
Mr. Amed was getting involved in events which do not affect his homelands. Personally I don't think he had any business getting involved in the mascot issue.
These still beg the question of why do people who don't like America or the American way of live come here? This is an important question.
There is another thread here at Indy that talks about why America Hates us. To understand the whole picture we should look at why so many in the world both hate the US and love the US. I don't think we can seperate the two issues.
Three stories illustrate this paradox.
This may not be true but I was told by a staff member at the US Embassy in Manila many years ago that Anti-US base and Anti US pickets would march around the Embassy on Roxas Blvd. The embassy used a numbered waiting list for visa processing and this staffer said several people had numbers and put their signs down when their numbers were called, got their paperwork and then went back on the line.
In a case that happened to me. I was addressing a convention in Mumbai, India. Several people took the time to tell me how much they disliked the US lifestyle, etc (a rather strange event in its own right) yet they also asked me if my company had any openings for engineers.
A third example just came to mind. Last month I was in Malaysia talking to some people at a beach resort. One Singaporean told me (in a nice way) how he hated what American culture was doing to the world with McDonalds, etc. A few minutes later he told me "...so I was at the Burger King in Barcelona....:. So he hates the culture yet uses it even when travelling to a third country.
As my partner (from nyc) would say: go figger.
What if we take as a basic premise that US foreign policy is not US culture. One could hate US foreign policy, but love US culture.
At the same time, assume we take as a premise that US culture is not a monolithic organization (which it hardly is). US culture has many different facets. People may enjoy some of those facets, yet deplore others. Perhaps a progressive minded Iranian might look at the US and admire the civil rights movement, but then he might say that the ignorance of the average American about the effects of their foreign policy was a very bad thing.
Personally what I see as really strange is this form of thinking that lumps everything together into a giant indistinguishable mass. Its a very insidious sort of thing that I am sure all of us have been guilty of at one time or another.
One last note before this turns into a love fest:
The news reported that some of the detainees in Gitmo are taking English class and want to apply for residency in the US! (via Asylum). Now there is a real "go figga". Even stranger, I'll bet the gov will atually grant some.
I was under the impression that this aspect of the US is incredibly precious to the american people..so is the policy of equal rights for all.
I'm afraid both these aspects are difficult to see when an event such as this occurs.
You may be thinking that the fbi had reason to treat him as they did, but what if they didn't. Is that not too a possibility, and if indeed it was, then isn't it more insulting and scary that the foundations of the US may be coming appart at the seams.
I suppose as a reponse I will have the same nasty and rude comments thrown at me that you have all thrown at each other instead of trying to get to a conclusion..but perhaps it is naive to expect a little tolerance and understanding from people...Was it wrong of ahmed to try and stand up for what he believed in? SO what if he is protesting about the way people are being treated abroad? Should the americans not have interfered to fight hitler? should the world have allowed the persecution of jews to continue? If jan disagrees with policies in iran, she should move there to see the truth for herself and not just believe what one is permitted to by the media. Mr holmes you make it seem a bad thing to fight for people who are suffering elsewhere? So is it acceptable in your opinion to feed our own bellies with no thought to those who may be starving in africa or elsewhere? Mugabi is an evil man..if the international world does not stand up for his suffering people, who will? Palestinians are people too and deserve support. People do not opt for suicide or terror , it is an insane cry for help. you may disagree with this, but for a second if you would, imagine they are in some twisted way crying and preying for help from the same US they hate. They probably understand that their future is partly in US hands and so seeing the us president call the war on terror a crusade, or the middle east a country may spark resentment and a feeling of hoplessness. Cherie blair understood this and was made to eat her words. she never said terrorism was acceptable, but it appears that standing up for innocent arabs and muslims in the world is seen as support for terror. Well I hope I am not the only westener who can see that this is simply untrue and unjust. if they are crying for help, we certainly have done a fab job of trying to understand and reverse this vicious cycle of hate that will probably live on through history longer that we will. We don't know a thing about islam or muslims or their countries which range from iran, to arabian countries, to india and pakistan, to africa, to malaysia and bosnia but we are encouraged to see these countries as the same because of a common religion our media has decided to brand as the certificate for terrorism.. We have a television and BBc and CNN and believe this is enough ( along with reading a few items of biased literature) to make raw and brash comments about a situation we clearly know very little about. it's all a bit disgraceful if you ask me...
I was under the impression that this aspect of the US is incredibly precious to the american people..so is the policy of equal rights for all.
I'm afraid both these aspects are difficult to see when an event such as this occurs.
You may be thinking that the fbi had reason to treat him as they did, but what if they didn't. Is that not too a possibility, and if indeed it was, then isn't it more insulting and scary that the foundations of the US may be coming appart at the seams.
I suppose as a reponse I will have the same nasty and rude comments thrown at me that you have all thrown at each other instead of trying to get to a conclusion..but perhaps it is naive to expect a little tolerance and understanding from people...Was it wrong of ahmed to try and stand up for what he believed in? SO what if he is protesting about the way people are being treated abroad? Should the americans not have interfered to fight hitler? should the world have allowed the persecution of jews to continue? If jan disagrees with policies in iran, she should move there to see the truth for herself and not just believe what one is permitted to by the media. Mr holmes you make it seem a bad thing to fight for people who are suffering elsewhere? So is it acceptable in your opinion to feed our own bellies with no thought to those who may be starving in africa or elsewhere? Mugabi is an evil man..if the international world does not stand up for his suffering people, who will? Palestinians are people too and deserve support. People do not opt for suicide or terror , it is an insane cry for help. you may disagree with this, but for a second if you would, imagine they are in some twisted way crying and preying for help from the same US they hate. They probably understand that their future is partly in US hands and so seeing the us president call the war on terror a crusade, or the middle east a country may spark resentment and a feeling of hoplessness. Cherie blair understood this and was made to eat her words. she never said terrorism was acceptable, but it appears that standing up for innocent arabs and muslims in the world is seen as support for terror. Well I hope I am not the only westener who can see that this is simply untrue and unjust. if they are crying for help, we certainly have done a fab job of trying to understand and reverse this vicious cycle of hate that will probably live on through history longer that we will. We don't know a thing about islam or muslims or their countries which range from iran, to arabian countries, to india and pakistan, to africa, to malaysia and bosnia but we are encouraged to see these countries as the same because of a common religion our media has decided to brand as the certificate for terrorism.. We have a television and BBc and CNN and believe this is enough ( along with reading a few items of biased literature) to make raw and brash comments about a situation we clearly know very little about. it's all a bit disgraceful if you ask me...
Sarah, these are all the efforts of a single individual or small group of losers sent here by therightwing.com - they are scared shitless of free speech and are trying to shut us down. Pay them absolutely no attention. If you see crazy posts in all-capitals, ethnic slurs, really dumb extremist views (like 'kill all jews' or 'kill all palestinians') just ignore these posts completely, no matter how many of them there are - there will be alot now that I have posted this, it never fails to draw their attention when they are exposed.
First: Sarah and X2 and the “nasty and rude comments” that were thrown looks to me to have been mostly heaped on JanNet although FJ did use the “B” word. So here I disagree with X2 regarding source unless those comments were put in by trolls although I agree 100% that language is not needed.
Ms. Sarah, sorry but I don’t dismiss Megan’s anti-farmer viewpoints as simply as easily as you may. I also believe that one can discuss more than one topic at a time on these threads. JanNet raised a question of why move where you don’t want to live. Megan replied to that letter rather nastily. Farmer Jack chose to post an objection to Megan’s somewhat intolerant views. The primary thrust of my post was that perhaps JanNet’s views were not just the rantings of a neo-nazi. Mr. X2 commented on similar issues. Ms.Sarah wants to revisit the specifics of Mr. Ahmed being arrested. She has the right to post on that subject. She chose not to until now. So the answer to your wondering, Ms. Sarah, is pretty obvious. No one, including you, chose to.
Now as to the discussion X2 and I had related to JanNet’s question, which you chose not to address: why did Ahmed move to the US if he hates the US and why do people hate and love America at the same time. I stick with my point that this is a very valid question. Regarding my views on fighting elsewhere, Sarah, don’t you really think that people do too much of that now?
Ms. Katrina, let me stick up for Farmer Jack a bit. Although I don’t approve of his language, I am 100% behind his view that Megan has an elitist view when it comes to farmers and her language was both inflammatory and intolerant. FJ mispelt Ahmed’s name one time. I did it several times. You miswrote his as Farmer ‘Boy’ rather than Farmer ‘Jack’. This is no more a sign of illiteracy on a site like this than the error you made in writing ‘proof her point’ rather than ‘prove her point’. Also, to FJ’s credit, despite what you wrote, nowhere in his memo does he claim to be smart, in fact he claims the opposite throughout.
Regarding jumping to conclusions. Your post echoes what I tried to say to poor Megan. I felt she was jumping to conclusions about Ms JanNet. I’m surprised you think I am jumping to conclusions about her. I made it a point to stick strictly to what Megan said. Re-reading both Megan’s and my reply, I still believe Megan has an anti-farmer elitist view. I base this on what she wrote. Sadly, I find she is not alone in this world in having this view.
By the way, you and Sarah, please re read Megan’s post. She made one comment on women in Iran not objecting to being told how to dress and the rest of it was a pretty nasty and vicious ah hominem attack on JanNet with no reasoned defense at all of her position. The conclusions one could jump to about her, based on this, is not pleasant.
http://www.indybay.org/news/2002/08/141742.php
Finally, i find you are confusing me with others who have written comments regarding jan. I only suggested that jan visit iran to satisfy herself with regards to a point she made. It was also unecessary to assume i had not read jan's comment properly. Furthermore, i do not think it is your responsibility to defend jan every time someone mentions her name... perhaps you are trying to patronise her as well. I only made that short comment to point out that it is not altogether bad of one to fight for those we believe are suffering, be they iranians, brazilians, palestinians, whatever...you apparently believe there are too many people already doing this...interesting slant on the situation....there are more people suffering in this world than not and their suffering is of a continuous nature. That mr. holmes is enough for me to accept that we are all not doing enough. Perhaps we do not believe it is our responsbility. This planet is turning though and we may find it is us who are the sufferers next. I wonder how our views would change then...
la la la la
"JAN NET YOU STUPID SLUT,
GO FUCK YOUR SELF BITCH
let me know how the KKK rally
your already long list of dirty characteristics"
and please forgive me if I believe in percision in debates.
1. I mentioned kartina's spelling ONLY because she opened her email attacking Farmer Jack's spelling of Ahmeds name and treating that as significant. Her comment of FJ's post would be like me saying your post was pompous.
2. For the life of me I can't see where I said you hadn't read Jan's post properly. You did ask me to reread MEGAN's post and I countered that you should reread it. You spoke sympathically of her as a caring person. To me her post sounded mean spirited and divoid of argument.
3. Do I believe too many people are getting involved in other's business? Well, yes. I don't really think the US should be so involved in the ME, I don't think Zambabwae troops should be in the Congo, I don't think the US should be involved in Columbia's business. I don't think Chinese troops should be in Tibet. Just because a person perceives something they don't like means they should jump in and take action. Is all intervention bad? No, of course not.
4. I also believe that people should look inward first. Mr. Ahmed comes from a number of rather repressive regimes. I think it strange that he would come to the US, take the benefits of America and then lead protests against relatively triviial issues like a college mascot. With all the problems of the world, of his homes in Africa and the MidEast, of nearby Palestine and of the confusion of ISlamic Fundimendalism, he travels across the ocean to a land he dislikes and what great evil does he find to protest? The Illini Indian l for Goodness sake?
For the record I think its a perfectly good cause for Illiniois folk to protest against. But for Mr. Ahmed to get involved, it makes me wonder.
5. I go back to my original unanswered question, why do people who hate America have such a fascinationwith it? I suspect you are British. I suspect you have some serious issues with America and yet you spend quite a bit of time on this US site. Nothing wrong with that at all. Just courious.
p.s Farmers always stink of shit
Oh and in support of the british, many of them support your policies but you had no problem assuming that brits would have issues with the states. Moreover what the hell has visiting a site to read some news, be it an american, british, filipino site have anything really to do with anything...you are the one arguing that poeple love and hate at the same time so why are you running around in circles...implying that that is SO hypocritical shows you are just clutching at straws, especially when you did exactly what you told someone else off for doing..that's hypocracy.
Also, suspecting someone is british because of their spelling is a bit weak just because alot of people on this earth are educated via the british system. Alot are also educated on the american system so is it your opinion then that it is acceptable of me to assume everyone who spells words in an american form is an American and that they must therefore also have big issues with the british? That would be a bit silly.
I can accept people will agree with some of what mr.holmes says but him suspecting all british people of having issues with the us is not ver fair.
By the way, ( jimmy?) mr. holmes introduced his final letter with 'ok, sarah...so that was why i thought he was directing his comments at me. ( megan clearly stated she was british, so why would he suspect it? That's why i think he was talking to me and i can not see that he had very good grounds for suspicion which is why i considered it a presumption.Mentioning the BBc and british spelling, as serpien said, doesn't cut it for me..)
I was begining to appreciate mr. holmes' defense to negative farmer comments until i read mr. holmes suspicions of the british because it didn't seem fair to attack one people in that way ( british) and defend another people for someone else's badly founded opinion of them. Now you'll probably get your dictionary's out and explain that i can't say that because he 'suspected' brits had issues with the US but megan ' presumed' farmers were stupid or whatever.
Forgive my language errors ( i am not english), read between the lines and look at the bigger picture you daft articles.
I suppose that makes me irish now.
I think mr. holmes was onto something when he signed out.
Yah also missing a big point. You're suspected (and suspected IS a LOT diff from presumed) as british on some evidience but the point being made was that you were not-American, and he was right on that point. You were not being suspected of being anything evil or bad like a KKK member or a farmer.
you're grasping at straws here. you are embarassing yourself
Interestingly, you've gotten compleely off hte topics of ahmed, name calling on this site and the love=hate relationship of many with America (which does exist).
You are getting pretty hot over being called British in a non-judgemental way. He didn't write anything like 'you are stupid so you must be British' like Megan pretty much wrote about farmers. He just mentioned that, based on evidence, he thought you might be British.
FREE AHMED
obviously NO ONE gives a shit about Ahmed or they would have written something other than this boring stuff.
Or is that too f*cking obvious for you to see.
I was just wondering, i have to hand in an essay, could i post it up here and have you lot correct it..oh and could you also take the dictionary's out of your asses that is clearly
if ahmed sees this site he'll probably laugh
if ahmed sees this site he'll probably laugh
if ahmed sees this site he'll probably laugh
if ahmed sees this site he'll probably laugh
Shame on you Americans with your contradicting culture and who would even be happily galloping and eating hay if the media claimed through some scientific research that you all are horses.
is a good ride.