The Sharon cover-up in Jenin

yes.... horrible atrocity... 50 dead, majority of them brainwashed crazed armed murderers. Use reasoning, its not that complicated, I have been using it since i was in 6th grade. Why the hell would the IDF send in GROUND troops for the purpose of killing people at random?? It must have thought....hmmm.... we could commit our mass genocide with planes, but instead we'll risk the lives of our soldiers, our sons and fathers, to do the same thing. logically that doesn't make sense. get over it, it was a needed operation, 10 years of negotiations for 'peace' while those scumbags build up arms resulted in this. There was no massacre, of civliians at least. If these morons don't want their children and wives and brothers killed, they should make their bombs and store their weapons a bit further then the center of town. talk about human shields.

So the Palestinians claim a "massacre in Jenin?"
They trumpet casualty figures of 500 dead, yet they've recently shaved that number down to 53. It seems odd.... What happened to all the bodies? Where are the "hundreds upon hundreds?" As for the UN fact-finding team, these are the same "diplomats" who agree with the Nobel Prize commission that laments ever awarding a Peace prize to Shimon Peres and Yitzhak Rabin. But, hey, we know what will get things rolling again, more bombers! Perhaps infants in carriages can now be armed, and their parents can ululate with joy that their children are "serving Allah."
Surely this the badge of distinction that cements their culture as civilized and progressive.....

That maybe the UN should investigate how one of its refugee camps became a headquarters for armed militants, terrorists, and suicide bombers, not to mention bomb building labs. Perhaps that would be too much of a conflict of interest for the UN, tho': always better to focus on Israel.

I hope that the Palestinian spokesman on CNN who said last week that hundreds and hundreds of people died in Jenin wasn't wearing cleats. Ouch.

The reason the IDF sent in ground troops, they weren't expecting going up against armed fighters. After all, for the last 18 months, the Israeli military has gotten used to using automatic weapons, against kids armed with rocks. It's a little different, fighting armed men, than kids with rocks. The death toll is definately more than 50. From all eyewitnesses account, the civilian death toll outnumber those of the armed fighters.Sharon, the butcher of Shatilla and Sabra, is certainly acting like someone with something to hide. You have to beware of Israeli propaganda.

http://www.boycottisraeligoods.org./index.php

Go back to the largely owned Jewish mainstream media were there is little care for the Palestinians and your ills will be cured.

It takes an idiot or a moron that has been completely brainwashed to believe all the IDF propaganda.

Sharon and the IDF have targeted innocent civilians for many years, and then lied about it. There was the infamous Sabra and Shatila massacre and the well documented massacre at Quana in 1996. At Qana hundreds of children and women were diliberately targeted, killed and wounded by Israelis anti-personnel shells.

Following an investigation by UN artillery experts the evidence was so clear that all countries in the General Assembly (except one) voted to punish Israel for that atrocity.

The International Red Cross and Amnesty International and others have condemned the flagrant disregard of Geneva Convention international laws by the Israelis in Jenin.

Even after the fighting had ended all human rights groups and medical teams were prevented access to Jenin for many days while the IDF did the cover -up work and planted explosives to deter and kill Internationals and Red Crescent workers that they hate.

No wonder Sharon lied about accepting the UN fact finding team in Jenin, then did the about face--he knew that it was imposible to cover-up all the evidence.

I find it difficult to believe that people on this forum think they have more information about what happened in Jenin than the Palestinian spokespeople who put the death toll at around 50.

Have you been there? Where do you get your information?

REALITY: The Israeli incursions have been effective at reducing terror attacks on Israel. Obviously, they are hitting the proper people. I'm sorry if that is tough for you to deal with.

I sure as hell don't get my info from Israeli government sources. As anyone besides me noticed that the same people who give uncritical support to Israel, also support the US sanctions against Iraq, that have killed over 1,000,000 people, half of them children, and also tend to support every US war drive? Regardless the Palestinian fighters held out longer than all the Arab armies during the Six Day War in 1967. As the "Guardian" put it "when the international media cannot be kept out anymore and the pictures of horror are published, two possible versions may emerge: Jenin as a story of massacre, a second Sabra and Shatila; or Jenin, the Palestinian Stalingrad, a story of immortal heroism. The second will prevail". Where do I get my information? From first hand accounts of international observers on the scene; From the European press; from statements by Israeli "refuseniks", soldiers, who while willing to engage in defense of Israel, have refused to participate in putting down the Infitada, the uprising, and are facing criminal charges; information leaked out by Israeli soldiers, who while not refusing to obey orders, are leaking out damning information. Also be advised that only one other country supported the South Africa apartheid regime; Israel! Apartheid South Africa, the US, and Israel-a rogues gallery, if there ever was one.

"Some people will say it was resolve alone that enabled the Palestinians to hold out for so long. This is simply untrue."

Right! It was the graciousness of the IDF!

The lesson that has not been learned by palestine is the same lesson that the computer in the 1984 movie "War Games" had to learn.

It looks like the Palestinains have an opportunity to have their own State. Now the question is, will they take it? Was it ever their objective to have their own State, or do they simply want Israel to disappear off the map?

I contend that this has NEVER been about Palestinian Statehood. This has always been about the destruction of Israel.

So, if they are offered the West Bank as their land, and East Jerusalem as their capitol, first of all, will they take it? And if they do, will things change? I doubt it.

By the Palestinians getting the West Bank, they are in fact getting a land that was never theirs. If you go to the pre-1967 borders, which commentaries in many publications talk about, the West Bank belonged to Jordan and Gaza belonged to Egypt.

I must agree with another post I have read in the past. If Palestine achieves their own State, and should the Palestinain government be unable to keep the militants within their borders from crossing the border into Israel and committing attrocities, then Israel (or Israel and Palestine jointly) should either build a wall or set up buffer zones covering the full length of the shared borders such that the citizens from Israel cannot cross into Palestine and the citizens from Palestine cannot cross into Israel. Good fences make good neighbors.

The Palestinians haven't "proven conclusively that they can fight with the best of them." They proven they can strap bombs on themselves and blow up innocent civilians, something I would hardly call "heroic", unless you view heroism in some type of sick form. If the Palestinians had tanks and planes and the Jews only had rocks, the Jews would still kick their ass. They couldn't even take over Jordan in 1970. These people are as dumb as the rocks they throw. They are a militant, violent people. I don't expect that to change.

In fact, that's confusing to many right now. Here we are telling the world that we are going to seek, find, and destroy terrorism whereever it exists, yet now our government is seemingly poised to assist in creating the State of Palestine, a country that will undoubtly become from its onset, a terrorist State. It won't be long until we're talking about doing the same thing to Palestine that we are now going to have to do to Iraq.

That is, if their aim is to really HAVE their own State.

wre, judging by your racist comments re the Palestinians, I suggest you go out and purchase some brown shirts, hobnailed jackboots, and learn the words to the Horst Wessel anthem. If you're going to be the part, you should look the part. Even the Israeli soldiers attacking Jenin, admitted they got more of a fight then they were expecting, and the Palestinian fighters were better trained and disciplined then they were led to believe. The Palestinian fighters were members of militias, and in fighting to repel an invading army, a legitimate military target. They were acting within international law, and the so-called "rules of war". Nessie, your criticism of the Stalingrad analogy is not bad. Your criticism that is. When the Iraqis wouldn't allow UN inspection teams in, they were subjected to harsh sanctions that killed about 10% of all children under the age of 5, in the last eleven years. Does that mean that Israel's refusal to allow a UN team into Jenin will result in deadly sanctions against Israel?

israel: "we have nothing to hide, send whatever you want"

then,
israel: "we want to control the process and edit the report before it is released"

then,
israel: "you cant come in, it isnt *fair*"

nothing more needs to be said.
anyone with common sense can figure it out.

Actually, the Sabra and Shatila massacre was conducted by christian lebanese malitias and not by the IDF, where DO you get your info?
oh, yeah, from Arafat's propeganda machine... the same guy who said Israel is using chemical warfare against the palestinians a year ago. :-)

And for all you bleeding hearts human rights dudes... as you know the palestinians ARE targeting Israeli civilians for years now. Strange, i didn't year that a UN fact finding mission is being sent to gather info about Arafat's part in terror attacks. Yep, blame it all on the Israelis.

>"The West Bank belonged to Jordan and Gaza belonged to Egypt." The land belongs to the people who live on it.

Consult a map of, say, 1966, early 1967, then come talk to me.


>When the Iraqis wouldn't allow UN inspection teams in, they were subjected to harsh sanctions that killed about 10% of all children under the age of 5, in the last eleven years.

Saddam Hussen has $25,000.00 to pay families per suicide bombing but he can't afford to care for his own citizens. Ken, if you want me or anyone else to take you seriously, you're gonna have to learn to produce independent thought. I take that back, partially. Anarchist and Jew haters will take you seriously.

"This will never happen until the American people step in and demand that the American government stop using Israeli as pawns." - Nessie

Oh, like the Arab countries don't use the Palestinians as pawns.

Most of you people think it is a racist notion to think that the Palestinians can be manipulated by their Arab "brothers" (BTW, I don't agree). If you really believe this, isn't Nessie's comment racist too?

Those figures come from many sources. For one, you might want to check out a book called "Iraq Under Siege," Anthony Arnove. Former Secretary of State, Madeline Albright admitted it when asked on a network news interview, 1995, "are the sanctions worth the lives of 500,000 Iraqi children," replied, "yes". Why do you have problems believing the US is capable of this? It's completely consistent with the history of this country. I would also recommend you watch a video, "Hidden Wars of Desert Storm".