Amerikkkan Flag Burning: July 4th

I don't care who you bitches are, so listen to this! First of all I would rather be homeless in this country than poor somewhere else. I Know that capatalism isnt the greatest thing in the world but burning the american flag is discraceful. Think of the immagrants who still come to this country trying to feed themselves. Mexicans cross the border illeagaly to get here everyday and celebrate cinco de mayo like its their birthday. I dont uderstand the message in american flag burning when the nazis who do that bitch and complain about their freedom. In any other country you would serve time in jail. Thats what i said. Understand this, burning the flag in the United States is like saying #@$^^%&^ *&^&^*^ this place so get the $#@% out of here!!!!!!!
WORD TO YOUR MOTHER$#@%^& !!!!!!!!

what it means to me is that the image of the united states is not noble, or sacred, or perfect, or best in the world, or fair, or decent, or innocent, or any of those things. patriotism is a threat to the liberty that the united states is supposed to stand for. it is far past time to shatter these illusions and start speaking to each other frankly and i'm glad that these flag burning pictures has provoked that.

Burn all the flags in the world, and in italy put berluska in the italian flag.

Burn all the flags in the world, and in italy put berluska in the italian flag.

I really cannot describe the rage I feel when I look at this picture. I feel as if somebody just flippantly spit in my face.

My first reaction is that on the next Fourth of July, I'd really like to be down there at People's Park with a baseball bat.

I'd wager that very few of the people who participated in that event actually had a well thought out philisophical reason for doing this. In fact, I'd wager that the majority of people present were mindless shitheads who had nothing better to do and thought it would be cool to stir up some shit. You assholes are not revolutionaries. Want to be revolutionary? Come try that shit in some location that's not so safe. Someplace where there won't be cops present to arrest people like me who are running amuck beating douchebags like you.

To those of you who genuinely think that burning the American flag is the way to make your point... please think again. You aren't just making a statement about American war atrocities, civil rights, etc... You're also shitting on the heads of people who love this country and love the righteous things about our country which that flag represents. It's such a blatant "Fuck You!!" that whatever else your message may be, it's lost on deaf ears believe me.

reese, you prove our point. some people have even tried to make it unconstitutional to burn the flag, so prison terms could be applied to whoever would do that. as it is, police showed up to videotape all the "subversives". and you, you think we should just get our asses beaten.

now reese, think really hard. why dont you see this as nationalist patriotic fascism??

you think that no one thought out their position but that's what we think about you. how could someone who supposedly loves freedom be so angered by people exercising theirs? or maybe it isn't freedom you love, it is just the red white and blue just like all loyal robot disciples are trained to love the flag and not what it stands for.

Dear mamma,

Come to Belgium to burn flags... You can choose 'à la carte': the Flemish flag, the Belgian flag, the European flag, etcetera....

For us - little shrimps from Belgium and other European states - flagburning is more a tradition and is not connected with your patriot feelings...

The 300.000 green cards that people outside the states past years could win by the U.S.A. federal-lottery are not so superb that you can write to your mother 'bout them...

In the U.S.A. the poverty, social exclusion, racial discrimination and social injustice is much worse than in Europe...

Think again mamma!

Kindly greetings,
Martin, Gent-BELGIUM

Mister Reece,

I've read your sick comment 'bout the flagburning... So you'll be next time in Berkeley-park with your base-ball stick? HAHAHA! LOL :))
Visit Belgium next time instead of Berkeley...
And we'll (me, myself and I; the Maroccan and Turk youngsters, the Chinese and other ones, etcetera) be here with what you couldn't dream of in your most dangerous nightmares... LOL :))

F#@K YOU NAZI-PATRIOTIC-PIG-THUG-MISTER-REECE

Greetings, Martin-Gent-BELGIUM

Note:
go backpacked to the redwoods or another nice piece of nature in California and cool down! And, why not, re-flect 'bout the stupid, violent, intimidating words you've spread. You need some selfreflection Reece!

Mr. Reece,

SMACK THE 'AMERIKKAN' MAC

http://WWW.MCSPOTLIGHT.ORG

F#@K YOURSELF!

Kind antiracist, antispecieist, antihomophobia, antigreed, antiageist, profeminist, pacifist greetings,

Martin, Gent-Belgium

I want to thank you, Reese, for sharing your thoughts with all of us. It's not everyday that we get to see such a crystal-clear reminder of the stunning effectiveness of US indoctrination.


Reese:
"on the next Fourth of July, I'd really like to be down there at People's Park with a baseball bat."

Translation:
People who express opinions to which I am opposed should be brutally beaten. Not only do I wholeheartedly support violent suppression of personal speech, I'd like to be part of the mob.

Analysis/Response:
Good job, Reese. I get all tingly inside to know that there are patriots like you -- people who have the courage to stand up and openly support blatant violations of state and federal law, not merely as acts in and of themselves, but in order that you might prevent others from being able to express unpopular views. You truly are a freedom-loving American, aren't you?


Reese:
"I'd wager that very few of the people who participated in that event actually had a well thought out philisophical [sic] reason for doing this."

Analysis/Response:
If you like, Reese, I'm sure there are some folks in Vegas who'd be quite happy to take your money on a bet like that. Do you *really* think people just randomly burn US flags for shits & giggles? Just to annoy their neighbors? And the fact that it occurred on July 4th, that was just a coincidence, yeah?


Reese:
"Come try that shit [burning a US flag] in some location that's not so safe. Someplace where there won't be cops present to arrest people like me who are running amuck beating douchebags like you."

Translation:
My masturbatory fantasy begins with you arriving, unaware, at my secret area where I usually bring my victims.

Analysis/Response:
The "douchebags" reference alone is so rich, and plays on so many levels... I don't have enough time go there today...


Reese:
"[B]urning the American flag [sic] is [not] just making a statement about American war atrocities, civil rights, etc... [it also offends] people who love this country and love the righteous things about our country which that flag represents."

Translation:
Domestic fascists, such as myself, don't like it when you point out the long and ongoing history of torture, slavery and genocide for which the government is responsible. We would prefer to bask in the opiated illusion of US infallibility.

Analysis/Response:
It's amazing how you can see the truth, yet still not understand it. Though I can't speak for the person(s) who engaged in this act, I suspect that the desired effect was not merely to point out US atrocities, but also to evoke a response from obediant flag-saluters. (You got played.) BTW, there is no "American" flag.


Reese:
"...your message [is] lost on deaf ears..."

Response/Analysis:
The message that might be relayed by the act of burning a US flag is one that likely will not be understood by persons whose minds have been overly burdened/damaged by Dominator ideology. But messages need not be targeted at the largest available audience. The "value" of the act need not be measured by the quality of the message it sends, nor by the audience it targets, for it need not have an audience, at all; it may be sufficient that it provided the actor with a momentary sense of liberation and autonomy.


INTERIM CONCLUSIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS:
Subject R, after an extended series of forcible administrations of: 1) self-hating dogmatic religion, and 2)unquestioning nationalism, began to exhibit overt signs of cognitive dysfunction and hyperaggressive territoriality.

Recommendation is for immediate termination of controlled experiment and an unwavering rejection of ANY further use of items 1 and/or 2. These items have been classified as having NO POSITIVE SOCIETAL VALUE.

Numerous strains have been identified globally, with several particularly virulent forms active in the local bioregion. Primary vectors are churches, schools and television, with innumerable secondary vectors.

Recommend radical approach involving all cooperating organizations, with emphasis upon rapid distribution of broad-spectrum vaccines, persistent empathogens, and cooptation-resistant memes.

ok, first off, i hate america, you got a problem with that, i dont care, its my opinion, you fools say that flag burning people are stupid, but maybe if you would think for yourself sometime, instead of only listenind to the completely biosed media, what do you think the oddds are realy, of america being the best country in the world, why do you htink that, who told you, the government, oh they would have no reason to lie to you about that (sarcasticly for all of you stupid closed minded head strong patriotic americans) first off, the constitution is jsut ignored, your internet packets are monitered by the NSA for keywords, you will be killed for trying to change the goverment for treason, we already dont have freedom, "NOBLESVILLE, Ind. (AP) - A man accused of burning an American flag was ordered to stay away from U.S. flags if he is released from jail.

David H. Stout, 49, remained in jail Tuesday night, a day after Judge Wayne Sturtevant lowered his bond to $2,000 from $9,000. Stout has been in jail since his Sept. 30 arrest on misdemeanor charges of flag desecration and resisting law enforcement.

Indiana is among 48 states that still have laws against flag desecration, despite repeated rulings by the U.S. Supreme Court that flag-burning is an exercise of constitutionally protected free speech.

Stout is accused of resisting police officers called to investigate a complaint that he was burning a flag in an alley behind his home.

Defense attorney David Thomas has asked for a jury trial, but a trial date has not been set."
that was taken from a website i visited earlier tonight, thats not right, i am sick of this country and all of its regulated freedoms, you say that people sneak over here from mexico every day just to live her, why do youa assume that htis is true, jsut because someoen told you?

As burning a cross is a form of "speach".
Burning the US flag is "speach".
Imagine these mother fuckers at a party.
It would be fun to watch them try to get laid.
Do these people have children ?
Someones god imagine being the cross burners kid.
Imagine playing baseball with the flag burners kid.
Imagine parents day as the flag and cross burners kids.
Little Johnnie gets expelled for using the N word.
Little Betty paints graffiti on the pull down world map.

Look. I hate religion as much as the next guy.
But I dont burn the crucifix.
I hate violent racist more than anyone.
But I aint going to burn down your woodstock.

Be kind. Your god damn.
Peace all.

America is amazingly noble. Biologically, intellectually, historically "sacred". Shes imperfect but evolving second by second towards a wavering though permanant unattainable goal of "something close to perfect". Shes always different than the day before. Beacon of strength for most of the good in the world. Always attempting fairness. Embracing decency and protecting innocence.
Patriotic Americans insure future opportunities for broader peace, freedom, liberty in the world.
If someone shoots and kills your mother, is it a good thing because it raises the gun subject at your dinner table ?
Inspiring hope for peace/security/health the flag is just a symbol. But so is your last name.
Peace all

The reason this is good is that maybe, *maybe* someday some of these pictures will make their way to other countries, and people in those other countries can at least know that *some* of us understand what the fuck is going on and oppose our government just like they do. Just like they burn the U.S. flag all the time. And maybe ... just maybe ... it will save a few lives, and maybe ... just maybe ... someday we can get rid of these fucking genocidal dictators once and for all and then we can all live together and not have to fight over burning a fucking flag.

Flag-burning. Hmm. When I was a kid I burned a few. Here's why:

I wanted to disclaim my nationality and affirm my humanity.

I saw pictures of my grandfather as a soldier in WWII, in the German army, under the swastica. I dedided nationalism, particularly in aggressive and militaristic cultures is something I want nothing to do with.

Those who got erect at the site of the flag tended to have the exact opposite values as myself: they support war with any reason the government gives them, executions, incarceration as a panacea to social problems and in general, the narrow, racist and imperial aspects of this country.

To demonstrate my commitment to freedom of speech, assembly and association.

To destroy any possibility of running for "higher office."

I realized my country was the most aggressive invader in the world. That my flag was a symbol of domination to billions.

And lastly, to piss off jack-offs like the guys who got all heated here. And if you want to come down to People's Park - I'll be there.

I got into a similar fight in NYC with fascist skinheads in Washington Square. The police didn't protect us, but in fact arrested those the skinheads beat. The skinheads chanted "burn fags, not flags." They almost proved our point for us.

I was surprised a few years back to learn from numerous French friends that they associate the French flag with the facists and neo-nazis (Le Pen, the Front National, skinheads, etc). Since then, I've heard that a similar feeling is common in Latin America and Spain. National flags are often associated with dictators and the racist right.

The USA flag is much more mainstream. Most people associate it with holidays, fireworks, and used cars.

Symbolism is very important to people and an emotional issue, as comments to this photo can attest.

I agree with the italian dude. brulez tous les drapeaux!

peace

I'd luv to kick the shit outta all of you anti war flag burning assholes. You are the dumbest of the dumb and deserve to be annihilated. You all have no friggin brains at all in your empty god damn heads.

Lots of germans would probably offer up their flag next year. You hardly see any german flags flown in that country at all unless it's at an event like the World cup soccer semifinals. The blue UN flag with stars is seen more often than the national flag.
Next July I think they should bring some confederate flags because otherwise it all gets a bit passe. There are too many people on the west coast (usually a bit outside of the bay area) who still have confederate flags all over their trucks. My parents neighbors fly them from their house. Personally I wouldn't burn any flag.

fuck july 4th!!!!!!!!!!!
and fuck the united piss of america
!!!!!

Go ahead: burn a flag, roast a tofu pup, download pictures of stadiums, get high... whatever! ENJOY YOURSELF!

i'm gonna burn the "USAPATRIOT" Act
cuz I LOVE THIS COUNTRY!

EXCERCISE FREE SPEECH!

thank you indymedia SF for providing this forum

Even though the people who burn flags are deplorable assholes, they have that right. Clearly, they have no idea what they are protesting, maybe they would favor a nation where free expression and the right to own property is banned? Apparently flag burning is a thumbs-up to repressive regimes worldwide like Burma or China.

Either way, flag burning is hate speech, and while I'm on the subject, happy Independence Day to all you: faggots, tar babies, kikes, spics, towelheads, sand niggers, and honkeys. These words should have the same protection as your flag burning.

If you had ever been homeless on the streets of this country, you might have some appreciation for the gross unjustness of a society employing the political expediency of criminalizing entire classes of people based on their economic status.

As a Vietnam era veteran, I applaud anyone who confronts the corporate-corrupted lie our government has become. As we celebrate the revolution of 1776, let's remember that we were supposedly throwing off the shackles of economic tyranny -- an idea whose time has come again.

chance--

The War of Independence was fought mainly because of taxation, as in "taxation without representation." Colonists who were upset with that the British government had no limit to the type and amount of taxes they could impose upon them and that they had no legal recourse, they had not one reprensentative in Parliment. This naturally led to the question, are we then still citizens of England?

The homeless have representation: they have city councilpersons, mayors, state and federal representatives, state and federal senators, presidents, etc. Furthermore, they are entitled to unemployment benefits, housing subsidies, loan guarantees, etc. (providing they meet rather generous requirements). Lastly, they have access to all of this WITHOUT paying taxes! (that's an assumption on my part, but I feel it's a rational deduction).

There are also many non-governmental program, charities, and caring individuals you help the homeless. The fact you are not reporting is that many times the homeless have deep seeded problems with addicition and/or mental illness that can not be easily fixed with free food and shelter. And it does not help the plight of the homeless to marginalize this issue.

No, the world is not fair or perfect, but a homeless person is still a person, and therefore must accept at least some responsibility for the choices they make in their life and the consequences thereof.

Isn't burning a flag a form of free speech? Protest is the only power the masses have. What's wrong with people expressing how they feel. Are they hurting anyone? Are they being violent? No, there is nothing wrong with burning a flag.

If you are so set on American patriotism don't you think it can survive a flag burning?

1) the so-called "American Revolution" was fought to protect the profits of white male property owners, and no-one else.

2) local government is beholden to no-one as much as the downtown business interests fund fund Willie Brown's political machine candidates through "soft money" contributions.

3) for every homeless person who got that way as a result of mental illness or substance abuse, there's another who turned to drugs or manifested symptoms of mental illness trying to cope with the dispair of becoming a non-citizen in their country of origin. charity will never solve homelessness -- it's an issue of social justice.

4) everyone pays sales taxes, even homeless people. but it would seem that many feel that they are entitled to fewer and different civil rights than the rest of America.

5) blaming homeless people for their situation through the jingoist device of "personal responsibility" is a scam. our current homeless crisis is far more informed by the results of welfare reform and the fact that the federal government subsidizes the real estate industry by cutting affordable housing funds by more than $28 BILLION a year less than in pre-Reagan years.

personally, I can't figure out which is more revolting -- your ignorance or your arrogance.

That's right, blame it on drugs. People turn to drugs for many reasons. No one turns to drugs because their life is going well. There is an inherant social problem in America. We are determined to focus on the stock market and property values rather than true human issues. If we looked at some of these social issues like racism, sexism, eliteism of the self-proclaimed aristicrats, and violence in our nation we might realize that though we may be the best country on earth we are not the best country to be poor in. Social systems to help those that are economicaly disadvantaged like drug treatment centers, planned parenthood, and public funded daycare, are cut in funding by the same people that blame drugs, early pregnancy and single mothers for America's problems. Let us not look to others and look to ourselves. What are we doing wrong to feed and environment of depravety that simply worsens. Buying BMWs and new computers with our stock earnings is not the answer. Next time you are sitting in your car on the way home from a job that any McDonalds worker would kill you for look into the eyes of the panhandler on the side of the street. You don't have to give them money or wind down your window, just acknowledge that they are there.

Drug dealers are not the problem, the fact that all we can do is "declare war" on drugs is rediculous. Campaign stump speaches from both democrats and republicans refuse to address real issues and are peppered with hypocracy.

Conservatives do just as much drugs as everyone else, maybe more. Just look at all the freakish pasty white crystal meth heads that are spreading around the country. Also, they LOVE their liquor. Just more hypocrisy that is expected from these losers.

If you wish to turn my statement that the homeless should accept partial responsibility for the choices they made into blaming the whole problem on drugs, then that says a lot about what your definition of an open mind is.

I guess the homeless are free from all responsibility but any governement official or citizen you disprove of is not?

I have to say that I don't understand the logic. Would you mind briefly pointing out who has to accept responsibility for their actions who does not.

Accepting responsibility??....are you fucking kidding me? Look at what is going on in the corporate world right now with company CEOs bankrupting the people that put their trust in them and then denying they knew anything was going on. Look at the U.S. military bombing Afghan wedding parties and then claiming that the party guests were shooting at them. Look at America with it's hands in the Middle East oil for 4 decades scramble for puppet government control and suppression of the people and then we tell them they are solely to blame for terrorist attacks. Where is the responsibility at all in America. If we tell the homeless they are responsible and they need to fix it they should fire that right back in our faces. No one chooses to be homeless, they shoulder much of the responsibility, but not all of it. And at least when they let someone down it's themselves, not thousands of loyal employees who have NO responsibility for what happened and are forced into bankrupsy by the irrisponsible rich. You will be the one to blame the Enron and Worldcom employees when they are on the streets.

Bah!! Responsibility is more foreign to those in power than those on the streets.

close-minded pot head:

"No one chooses to be homeless, they shoulder much of the responsibility, but not all of it." -- You do realize that is essentially what I said?

To use your logic, if some people don't obey laws, then we shouldn't have laws. If some people don't respect other people, or nature, or the world, then we shouldn't have people.

I think you are one of those people who choose only to see the bad in life -- that everything everybody does is wrong, and nothing is ever right. How old are you?

First => I'm 21
Second => A pesimistic view of our social system does not mean that my critique is wrong

I think you were saying that the homless should not rely on social programs to fix their problems because they are soley(sp?) responsible. I am saying that is NOT true.

Reason one => No one wishes to be homeless. Homeless people don't brag about how free they are to do what they want. I will guarantee you that many of them would do anything to not be homeless anymore, but they have no incentive. With no place to live they cannot go finish school, work in anything but the most menial occupation, or even make friends. Working your way from homlesness to middle class is impossible because of the lack of social programs that exist.

Reason Two => Lack of effective social programs is due to greedy politicians. In order to win votes all american politicians must pander to the middle class. Therefore issues in campaigns are tax cuts, family values and middle-class jobs. No focus is put on the poor because they do not vote, have the time or schooling to interpret politics, nor think that their vote will do any good. So those that are poor and homeless have little power, no political drive and not enough education to know they should have and demand the previous 2.

Reason 3 => This really isn't a reason why they shouldn't have responsibility, more of a reason why those with more power should display more responsibility. Yes, I think it is bad if someone doesn't want to work. I think that PALES in comparison to some of the lies the government and corporate leaders have told us. I am sorry that you think homless people are to blame for them selves. However, the uneven distrobution of wealth in this country and the world over IS responsible for poverty. I can already see your argument "well those that have money earned it." WRONG. That is a poor and missleading assumption. Those in power cheat lie, steal and help their friends in order to stay in power. They keep the wealth through an unequal means that normal people have no access too.

So in conclusion => we are all responsible for our fates, yet those that have less are less responsible because they have less control. So I do, and think we all should, hold those with more money and more control more at fault for the problems of this country.

What?

Try rereading this statement I made. Here, I'll make it a little easier on you:

"The fact you are not reporting is that many times the homeless have deep seeded problems with addicition and/or mental illness that can not be easily fixed with free food and shelter. And it does not help the plight of the homeless to marginalize this issue."

Social programs don't change people, but they can give them opportunities. Sometimes we don't have the answers, we don't know how to help those who refuse to be helped. But they are human beings, and all human beings have to accept some responisibility for the choices they make.

You understand the meaning of the word "some", yes?

What kind of chickenshit covers their face when posting their little angsty stab at America? A chickenshit who has no faith in their convictions. You might actualy get some respect if you had the balls to stand up for your beliefs, yet instead you choose to hide like a coward becuase deep down inside you are ashamed of what you did. Chickenshit.

...and you're missing the point that sometimes the homeless don't want to live in a shelter, they just walk out.

Human beings don't always do what is best for them, or necessarily even understand what would be best.

Hey 'works for me':

Did you used to go by the name 'jon' on this forum?

You and 'jon' have the same constipated, tediously literal, "i'm educated but i've never treaded into the deep waters" quality.

By the way, many homeless people work. Not only do many of the homeless CURRENTLY pay sales taxes and income taxes, but most also paid into the system for years prior to losing shelter. Quite a few are vets of imperialist entanglements of the type that you're inclined to idly cheer from a comfortable distance.

There are a lot of people who are homeless and you wouldn't know it looking at them, because they don't fit the sterotype. Most are too overwhelmed to think much of politics, but to the degree they do, they certainly don't share your 'works for meisms'

all i have to say is that it's amazingly great to see that there are people in america, who can see it for what it truly is, express that truth, on the actual 'day of america'; 4th of july - in the face of mainstream and all the people who call themselves patriots b/c apparently they will go with whatever the government tells them and they will defend that government at all costs, without asking any questions b/c apparantly they don't like using their own brains, they'd rather let the government do all their thinking for them. it's amazing that so many people in america, on the day of independence, can't even exercise a little independent thought. true patriots defend their country, not necessarily their government!!! b/c it's the government that can become corrupt!! true patriots defend their land, b/c it's the government that when it becomes corrupt will sell off all that land to the highest bidder and trash that land, log it for all it's worth, destroy everything that lives on it, pollute every stream, river and lake. false patriots are delusional people who watch CNN propoganda and accept everything without questioning, without the slightest thought of criticism, b/c that would be "unpatriotic" of them. when the government says jump, they say how high. when the government says they are not corrupt, they believe it b/c the government simply says it's not, and that's that.

remember this: "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely"

Why do those kids burning the flag hide there faces ?

They arent breaking any laws. They seem to be having a good time. Are they afraid there moms might see them playing with fire ? I dont get it .

If anyone can give me an accurate uncluttered answer , please do.

aaron--

Sorry to reply a day later. No, I do not post as Jon or anyone else. I'm not ashamed of my opinions and do not need to hide under another monicker.

you punk ass losers post shit like this on the front page like it's "news" but it's just an attempt to stir up shit. Then when a few dissenting conservative types come and post shit here, you don't like it so you censor the fuck out of them.

You are a bunch of fucking anti-american crybaby losers that will never accomplish jack shit. Go fucking kill yourselves. I wish you faggots would come burn a flag in my city, you'd be lucky to get out alive.

I hope you all rot in hell you lousy sons-of-bitches.

"Then when a few dissenting conservative types come and post shit here, you don't like it so you censor the fuck out of them."

Translation: Freedom of speech and the right to expression is A-okay as long as it doesn't get in the way of the indybay agenda.

I agree, the irony is thick. The Indybay headline "Burn one for the Revolution signifying "freedom of expression" no matter who it offeds and a desire to burn America at the stake. But when SmashTheLeft comes to the forum and does essentially the same thing to indybay, they censor him like it's Larry Flynt preaching at the Vatican.

There's a difference btwn protecting free speech when it comes from the Left and Right. It's not just a matter of "relativism" or "letting as many voices as possible be heard." The Left uses free speech and the right to protest to fight racism, inequality, etc. The Right tries to use it to promote or reinforce racism and inequality. The KKK, Fascists and the rightwing should not be able to protect themselves using "free speech" and "democratic values" (they care nothing about those things anyways) and they need to be run off the streets whenever possible. That's the problem with some liberal organizations like the ACLU that actually protect the "right" for Nazis to demonstrate. In doing things like that, they just increase the likelihood that some person of color is going to be a victim of a hate crime. So, when the Left tries to shut down, shout down or limit the voices of the Right, it's actually a good thing. It needs to happen. It's not hypocritical. People who actually do nothing in fighting racism and racists or try to take a "neutral" position are being immoral. Which side are you on, liberals?

"The KKK, Fascists and the rightwing should not be able to protect themselves using "free speech" and "democratic values" ... So, when the Left tries to shut down, shout down or limit the voices of the Right, it's actually a good thing."

throwin' the niggers back in chains and havin' 'em pick my cotton would be a good thing

Che--

...then you do not understand the definition of Free Speach--there is no qualification based on the presumed quality of content. Perhaps a reading of the Constitution or historical Supreme Court decisions might shed some light on the subject for you.

You mean the constitution that was founded by a bunch of rich white slave owners and created to benefit and protect the propertied classes only? Or the one that the current US government is eviscerating in the name of national security? You're a fucking moron.
There were, of course, good things about the American revolution and the constitution. It broke the yoke of feudalism, for instance. But, lets be clear that democracy under capitalism is a sham.

For someone to say that one group (the left) should be allowed freedom of speech, and others (racists, KKK, the right) should be driven from the street for exercising theirs, seems fascist to me. I don't understand why it's ok for liberals to burn the flag, knowing quite well that it angers a lot of people for no reason, but it's not ok for the KKK to march through Atlanta. Why don't you tell us Che??

Those aren't liberals that are burning the flag, moron. I'm not going to try and explain something to someone who is as stupid a rightwinger as you.

I'm non-partisan. And I didn't come here to be called names. Maybe they aren't liberals, it doesn't matter. But above you said:

"So, when the Left tries to shut down, shout down or limit the voices of the Right, it's actually a good thing. It needs to happen. It's not hypocritical."

Any time a group tries to enforce it's will over another through the use of force, "running them off the streets" as you put it, in my opinion that is characteristic of fascism. I fail to see your logic and your reluctance to discuss it proves my point.

Yadaeno, I happen to agree with you. Unfortunately (and I hate to tell you this) you won't get many rational discussions in here without a fair share of name calling and the like. The presumption is that the only sane, thoughtful people are the ones that agree with their view, by definition "Independent."

I only recently found out that the site is an avowed proponent of Anarachism, Anti-Captialsim, and Anti-Globalism, and if you're not in complete agreement, then you will be labeled a right-winger and never honestly considered to be an activist.

Unless you have a penchant for argument, abuse, or this specific agenda, I don't think you'll last long.

Yes, I've read a lot of history, but I'm not sure what part to which you're referring. I don't know why you think it's stupid that I believe it's fascist to forcibly control people, but you certainly have a right to your opinion no matter how absurd it may be.

And your analysis that biology is the reason behind fascism reeks of racism as well. So now you are guilty of fascism and racism, characteristics most claim to detest. But I support your right to discuss it publicly, because I advocate free speech.

"If we fail to exterminate them, sooner or later, they will kill us."

Who exactly? Be specific.

"Explain to me why we should allow ourselves to be killed, humanity enslaved and the biosphere raped, just so we can avoid using force."

Boy, you've really twisted what I attempted to say. All I said was that it is wrong to use force to keep people silent. It's fine to use force to defend against force. But using force against imaginary, perceived force is delusional and a characteristic of madness.

I still fail to see how ANY of this relates to flag buring. Nessie, your rhetoric is ludicrous. What dictionary do you use define fascist because that is not what mine says. And if "fascist, their friends, dupes and supporters" is your idea of specific then I'd hate to see you definition of vague. Why don't you name some names and give the reasons why you think they're fascists?

And anyone can post a bunch of anti-racist group link and claim to have made a point.

This word "fascist" gets thrown around here like so much water. I'm fully convinced that most anarchists/leftists haven't a clue as to what it is (those who do have willingly redefined it), and I'm not interested in enlightening you. Live in darkness, see if I care.

You have this diamond-shaped symbol divided into four parts surrounded by the words "socialism, autonomy, statism, & capatilism" and inside you have listed "anarchism, marxism, liberalism, & fascism". It's really cute & sweet & precious and all. I don't know who drew it up. I don't care. It's propaganda. That's all it is: propaganda. It a symbol that suits your needs in order to reinforce what you believe. All movements have their propaganda, this is one of yours. Defining "fascism" in this manner is just a subset of this propaganda. But outside your "group" or "collective" or whatever you want to call yourselves, it holds no meaning.

I fully expect you to use your propaganda. What's the point of having it if you can't use it? Propaganda can be used to make one feel superior, a rallying point, a battle cry. In this case, it turns truth on its head. But, that's not a new trick for propaganda. Hard to try and form a revolution without redefining some terms here and there. Propaganda for propaganda's sake!

Let’s see. I’ve been called a rightwing dumbshit, a liar, an idiot, stupid, and a moron all within the course of a few posts.

Not much in the line of valid arguments have been thrown at me so far though. Let’s see, I was told that rich, white slave owners wrote the constitution and therefore it is a fascist document. I was told that fascism is biological, but even though it is inherent to the white slave owner document it’s not racist to think that. I was told that by considering myself non-partisan that I’m part of the problem. But I was told that it wasn’t liberals that were burning the above flag, so it’s not that party that I should affiliate myself with and obviously I shouldn’t be part of the right. Hmm Che, this leads me to ask what party you belong to?? If you’re not on the left and you’re not on the right, that’s non-partisan. And guess what??

“That's actually a dodge. By trying to be "neutral" or "non partisan" you are actually supporting, consciously or unconsciously, the status quo.”

So it seems there’s nothing to be gained from chatting with these lunatics. They’ll continue to burn their flags for imaginary reasons to thwart imaginary villains. In short, I’d say they’re insane!

I'm on the Left. I'm no anarchist, though.

And I'm glad you exposed yourself for being an apologist for racism and capitalism. Good job.

I'm not an "appologist" for anything. I am however, an advocate of free speech and expression. I think the KKK has as much right to their protests as you do to your flag burning protests. If you disagree then I think you are a fascist. That's my opinion and if you don't like it, tough shit!

But now you've exposed yourself as being a liar. So it IS the liberals burning the flag!

If the best you can do is to hurl names, your causes will never have any chance. America will always win, and all you'll be able to do is whine about it and throw tantrums. Occasionally, you'll burn a flag to try to get some attention, but no one will care.

I am done with you, you whining, sniveling, pompous asshole!

Got under your skin, did I? Good. Fuck you, you sorry right wing, confused, apologist for Fascism, shithead!

And most liberals are not a part of the Left. Some of them are and they are good activists and genuinely see why people should break with the Democrats. But most fail to see why supporting the Democrats don't get you anywhere and have too much faith in the system. You don't understand the Left. That's not my problem. You're either a yuppie, an economics professor, or a middle aged, affluent white man. I dont care about you.

Some the Berkleyites did another demonstration. Wow they burnt flags again. They told us America was bad again. Wow. I have never heard any of that before. You people are really original. One question I have for all of you is what good does flag burning do for you people? You offend people. You people jeer. Thats great and my hat goes off to you. But really don't you think, in the present situation you should be speaking about actually why you are annoyed, what you are against and of course the toughest one for all the people who like to whine about how america is soo bad: What steps can we take to improve. Saying "Yankee go Home" is a bit of a cliche now don't you think, it is a statement so hackneyed that it holds no weight anymore. Say why America should not support Palestine. Argue against racist politics. Propose social reforms. I hate to remind you people that yes, the Left here is hurting pretty bad. Burning flags on the 4th of July helps nobody except Rumsfeld and Cheney by giving them ammunition for THEIR cause. So thank you all. You are all such lovely patriots.

For anyones information,groups like the Aryan Nation,White Aryan Resitance(WAR),Church of Jesus Christ Christian,KKK,Militia Groups,and other skinhead groups often burn the flag in their rallies.
Think about that if you think you are making a statment against facism.

Maybe everyone who is standing up for the flag should go read "A Peoples History Of the United States" or some chomsky. Then you might have a better Idea of what our flag stands for. Freedom? no. We are the only ones in the world who are too thick headed to realize that the US has stopped more democratic revolutions then it has helped. We are terrorists, we are imperialists, and the flag should burn.

HAR!

Eggy, not everyone is a big, bad Chomsky reading economics major from the "hood" like you are! Go burn your flags and cuss capitalism with your dorm room buddies lil eggster. It sho be dah kewl thing tah do in dah hood dees days, ain't it?

FYI: The 'aaron' (me) that has been knocking you silly on the other thread didn't write the above post.

Personally, I'm not that impressed by flag-burning. If flags are gonna burn, I'm for burning all of them.

That said, I suggest you read "American Power and the New Mandarins" by Chomsky. Put down the Louis L'Amour and get to it, jack-ass.

I prefer reading Ann Coulter and Shawn Hanity's new books. They're pretty telling on obfuscating liberal tactics.

Of course I've read some Chomsky. For me characterize his work as boring without having done so would make me as presumptuous as the typical you. As a student of militia tactics I was taught to learn about enemies of the state. Of course his work is so boring that for the most part it just puts me to sleep, making for tedious erudition.

Yea, eric can't stand "tedious erudition".

He prefers exciting imbecility.

Just imagine Chomsky and Coulter in debate.

Chomsky would KO that witless bitch in the first round.

Chomsky couldn't beat cake batter.

Gee whiz, by using the "shocking" spelling of "Amerikkkan," I am forced to consider my nation's horrible racism and oppressiveness. Yes, America is the most diverse nation on Earth (pc nazis insist that "diversity" is the end-all and be-all of what is right in most cases, but somehow that doesn't apply here), and yes, it's true that America is no more or less racist, proportionate to diversity (calculate that, pc nazis) than any other nation, but golly!--"Amerikkka"!--that spelling is enough to jolt me from my prosperous (read: evil) complacency and compell me to move to a more enlightened society. Iran or Somalia, or Afghanistan (oops, wait, Afghanistan has now been corrupted by the evils of democracy; the exalted Taliban has been crushed) come to mind. I will follow all the rest of you self-hating, guilt-ridden, bleeding heart, pc fascists on the next flight.

And yes, it is interesting that the faces are masked in the picture. The exception is the girl (apparently about 18-23, going on 8) in the background with the little, "oh gosh, aren't I being bad" grin on her face. Her parents must be so proud. But then, pissing off her parents would be part of the allure of attending such a "protest." I was that age once, too, and pissing off the 'rents was always fun. I, however, never spat on myself in the process, nor did I intentionally try (weakly as she did notwithstanding) to offend millions in the process, especially while simultaneously railing against any piddling little perceived offensiveness against some small, thin-skinned, hyper-sensitive minority. (Look up the word "minority" before you predictably rant about racism/sexism, or whatever other "ism" you're currently masturbating over--feminism comes to mind.)

Gee whiz, by using the "shocking" spelling of "Amerikkkan," I am forced to consider my nation's horrible racism and oppressiveness. Yes, America is the most diverse nation on Earth (pc nazis insist that "diversity" is the end-all and be-all of what is right in most cases, but somehow that doesn't apply here), and yes, it's true that America is no more or less racist, proportionate to diversity (calculate that, pc nazis) than any other nation, but golly!--"Amerikkka"!--that spelling is enough to jolt me from my prosperous (read: evil) complacency and compel me to move to a more enlightened society. Iran or Somalia, or Afghanistan (oops, wait, Afghanistan has now been corrupted by the evils of democracy; the exalted Taliban has been crushed) come to mind. I will follow all the rest of you self-hating, guilt-ridden, bleeding heart, pc fascists on the next flight.

And yes, it is interesting that the faces are masked in the picture. The exception is the girl (apparently about 18-23, going on 8) in the background with the little, "oh gosh, aren't I being bad" grin on her face. Her parents must be so proud. But then, pissing off her parents would be part of the allure of attending such a "protest." I was that age once, too, and pissing off the 'rents was always fun. I, however, never spat on myself in the process, nor did I intentionally try (weakly as she did notwithstanding) to offend millions in the process, especially while simultaneously railing against any piddling little perceived offensiveness against some small, thin-skinned, hyper-sensitive minority. (Look up the word "minority" before you predictably rant about racism/sexism, or whatever other "ism" you're currently masturbating over--feminism comes to mind.)

We need to be ONE WORLD!!!!!!!!!

We need to be ONE WORLD!!!!!!!!!

Quite simply, if you hate this country so much, then get the Hell out. Then you'll realize how good we have it. Burning the flag is an act of treason and should be considered as such. Millions of men and women have died throughout history protecting us and our liberty so that we could live in freedom. What ''you'' have done is a disgrace and and act of ungreatfullness and disrespect for those lives lost. In the past during war, a man would march in direct fire carrying the flag, making sure it would remain flying high. Burning the flag is destroying everything they fought so hard to protect. In doing so, one is saying that it was all in vain. This men and women made the ultimate sacrifice; puting their lives in danger to protect us so we could have this little thing called FREEDOM.

It’s free expression, one of the freedoms that so many Americans have given their lives to protect. To criticize it is to spit on their graves. Shame on you. Go hang your head.

Regarding the comment mad about Get THE HELL OUT. I agree with him. Those pople fought to protect this country. The flag is a reprensentation, a symbol of this country. WHAT IS MEANT BY BURNING THE FLAG YOU FUCK FACE ANTI-AMERICAN NAZI? GO HANG YOURSELF BITCH!! WHY DON'T YOU GO BURN A FEW CROSSES WHILE YOUR AT IT!! Those people would roll in their graves if they knew that scum like you would. We also have the right to bare arms. Think about that PIG.

IT IS ANTI-AMERICAN TO BURN THE FLAG. IT MAY BE CONSIDERED AN ACT OF FREE SPEACH, BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN IT IS RIGHT. TRY GOING TO A OVER SEAS COUNTRY AND BURN THEIR FLAG. THEN YOU'LL BE HUNG FOR AN ACT OF TREASON. THE ACT IS THE SAME NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE. SO MANY THINGS HAVE BEEN CHANGED FROM THE ORIGINAL BILL OF RIGHTS AND MANY OTHER THINGS ADDED IN TO PLEASE DIFFERANT GROUPS OF PEOPLE. SO AGAIN, WHY BURN THE FLAG. IF YOU ARE SO UPSET WITH THIS COUNTRY, GET THE FUCK OUT. OUR LEADER IS DOING HIS BEST AND WE NEED TO BACK HIM UP. I WAS BORN HERE TO BUT I'M NOT GOING TO SHIT ON THIS COUNTRY AND USE THE FLAG TO WIPE MY ASS.

I agree. Bearing arms is a right and we should keep it. But we need to beef up back ground checks and finger print everyone who buys a gun. We should try to keep guns away from people like the snipers from the latest news.

KISS MY ASS!! TO ME IT IS AN ACT OF TREASON. I FELL IT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED AS SUCH. I HAVE HEARD THAT ONE BURNS THE FLAG WHEN IT IS DECOMMISSIONED. I'M NOT SURE OF THAT THOUGH. BUT GO AHEAD AND BURN ALL THE FLAGS AND CROSSES YOU WANT. THAT IS A RIGHT YOU HAVE, BUT WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO. MOST OF THAT FLAG BURING SHIT DIDN'T START TILL AFTER NAM. REMEMBER, MEN MARCHED IN BATTLE BEARING THE FLAG IN DIRECT FIRE. I ASURE YOU HE WASN'T BURING THE FLAG AND SMOKING A FATTY. BUT YOU DO HAVE THE RIGHT TO FEEL AND SAY WHAT YOU WANT, BUT THIS DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE ARE ALWAYS RIGHT.

Dumb all over, yes we are

dumb all over, near and far

dumb all over, black & white

...people we is not wrapped tight.

Justin and Jackle,
If there are countries where they hang people for burning a flag (provide a list please) . . . you fuckin' go there! This is a free country, or we're trying to be in spite of jingoistic, ignorant fuckheads like yourselves. People have fought and died for freedoms and each other, not a fucking scrap-of-cloth symbol. Any fucking country in the world can have a flag, it's civil liberties and freedoms that matter, and the freedom to disagree with the government. I'm tired of ignorant right wing thugs like yourselves shitting on my country! You're tearing this country apart! Got a problem with freedoms? Too stupid and ignorant to know when you're being manipulated? Get the fuck out of my country! Now! Get out! Fucking pigs!

Flag Burning is not an act treason. Its a right the american people have and if they chose to burn the flag they have the right ot doit. but it is also wrong to do it. some peole who burn the flag they doint because they dont like the Government or the President. its also may seen as an act of Patriotnism.

Flag Burning is not an act treason. Its a right the american people have and if they chose to burn the flag they have the right ot doit. but it is also wrong to do it. some peole who burn the flag they doint because they dont like the Government or the President. its also may seen as an act of Patriotnism.

burning the flag is in act of patriotism because ur prostesting THE ACTS OF YOUR GOVERNMENT. this is One's right to PROTEST.

You are correct that burning the flag is an act of free speech protected by the Constitution. Only an Ammendment could reverse this fact.

this got knocked off the comments

have u guys noticed that most of the people who burn the flag ae becasue their protesting about the government also knows as Patriotism.

you are the stupidest person I have ever heard. Word to your mother? That shit is so old, vanilla ice is even ashamed of it now, us real Amerikkans don't need to prove how fuckin un-educated we actually are.

hey fool y do u have to bring mothers to this topic. well people who are educated are the ones who fight for rights for the people in America. some people do it bi demostratiing and some by burning the flag and protesting about it.

i also think what Baphomet said is right. y do u care of peace of cloth gething burn it may be ur nations flag but it is yust a flag. Many people who are Educated have die or gothen injured in the prosess of gething u the rights u have now.

........................

What does a flag represent? Does it represent the nation? Does it represent the ambitions of the people within the nation? Does it represent the politics of the nation? In short, does a flag represent the deceit and double standards of any political system on this planet, or does it represent the desires of the people who are spoon fed historical opium to believe their particular culture is built on good? That spoon fed opium belief in the meaning of the flag has ultimately led to the simple fact that you will not be hurt if you burn the self same flag. Isn't it a question of semantics? A flag is not simply a symbol of political nationalism - it's a reference to your blood and everything in it, from humour to shame. It is absolutely possible to be proud of your nation without being proud of your nation's political history, because essentially you are removed (thankfully due to the speed of media less & less) from the decision making process. I am proud of the fact that my grandfather believed in defeating Hitler for the right moral reasons. For that, I fly the flag. The information that has been revealed since about the true state of affairs of many of the world's conflicts has made me feel very sorry and ashamed for how the world actually works. For that, I burn the flag, which in my case is the Union Jack. We come from nations built on selfish untruths fed to us to keep us in check, and over time those untruths have become national ambitions, have essentially become true. Some of us believe in The Santa Clause. It's not a lie, and it's not true either. It's whatever you want it to be, like a flag.

why does the ACLU stand up for the nazis and KKKs marching around when they are known terrorist groups. dont they know that this is how they get intopower? trent lott, asscraft etc. brainwashed patriots never notice how many children get burned in vietnam el salvador, nicaragua, guatemala etc .by american napalm, phophorous bombs etc. to them advocating lynching blacks or rounding up jews is considered "FREE SPEACH", taking precedence over others (nonwhites) freedom to even live.

why does the ACLU stand up for the nazis and KKKs marching around when they are known terrorist groups. dont they know that this is how they get intopower? trent lott, asscraft etc. brainwashed patriots never notice how many children get burned in vietnam el salvador, nicaragua, guatemala etc .by american napalm, phophorous bombs etc. to them advocating lynching blacks or rounding up jews is considered "FREE SPEACH", taking precedence over others (nonwhites) freedom to even live.

Howdy Folks, Dont mean to spoil your fun but I just want to bring your attention to the danger of all open flames. Fires should only be created in designated areas for the saftey of all.Contact your local fire station and they will supply you with the booklet, "Be Fire Safe" Your pal, Smokey

See:

the movie about the Revolutionary war:
THE PATRIOT, (Mel Gibson)

or SAVING PRIVATE RYAN, (Tom Hanks) about W.W. II

Understand:

What MANY sacrificed for America to be born, and to be preserved so YOU could be free to write this, so YOU could have blue skies, green grass, and freedom
to believe as you wish

Go:

to another country to live if you don't like it here, and see how they treat you

Honor:

my dad, and all like him, who served his country well
in the U.S. Armed Forces

Get:

A clue

I have a constutional right to insult the government. THAT says alot about the government!!!!! Try doing that in other countries.

Fuck the Goddamn 4th of july!!!!!!!!!!! the most goddamn stupid fucking holiday on this fucking earth!!!!!!!!!!!!!! **I Just LOVE the photo** of them burning the fucking piss ant amerikkan flag!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Such a cheap piece of fucking cloth!!!! To all of you goddamn flag loving crybabies out there...IT IS JUST A GODDAMN STUPID PIECE OF CLOTH!!!!!!!! FUCK THE AMERIKKAN GOVERMENT AND ANYTHING ELSE AMERIKKAN!!!!! War PIGS!!! The British should have kicked your sorry motherfucking amerikkan ass, when they had the chane!!!! and they will always have the chance!!!!!!!The British had one of the most powerful and biggest Empires in the history of civilization!!!!!

Death to fucking hollywood as well....yet more fucking amerikkan garbage that seems to envade any other country that they damn well please!!!!!!!!!!! To film their fucking corrupt goddamn trashy films.......**watch out, here comes a massive NUKE!!!** oh...one more thing....ALL OF YOU RICH MOTHERFUCKING HOLLYWOOD DRUGGIES, WHORES,PIMPS, SEXUAL ASSAULTANTS TO LITTLE KIDS,FUCKING NIGGER FOOTBALL PLAYERS, SPORTS PEOPLE THAT NEED A DEATH SENTENCE,AMERIKKAN PIG DIRECTORS,LIKE STEVEN SPIELBERG...WHO IN SAVING PRIVATE RYAN, DID FUCKING NOT PORTRAY THE BRITISH TROOPS WHO FOUGHT AT THE BEACH OF NORMANDY!!!!!! ONLY THE FUCKING AMERIKKANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!***NEED TO GET YOUR GODDAMN FILTHY AMERIKKAN TRASHY ASSSSSSS OUT OF THE BRITISH WEST INDIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*** IF YOU HAVE ANY FUCKING BRAINS....CONSIDERING THAT THEY ARE SOME OF THE MOST GODDAMN DUMBEST MOTHERFUCKERS ON THIS EARTH!!!!........WELL WHAT DO YOU FUCKING EXPECT........THEY DIDN'T EVEN PASS PRE-SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HA HA HA HA KEEP YOUR AMERIKKAN RICH FUCKING TRASH OUT OF OUR *TERRITORIES*!! *WE* TRY TO KEEP *OUR* COUNTRY AND TERRITORIES CLEAN....NOT RIDDEN WITH FILTH AND CORRUPTION LIKE *YOURS*

Finall people with enough sense to burn a flag, I myself do not care about this country for it isnt fair that George Bush is doing what he is doing to the middle east, he is only attacking them because Sadam Husayn tried to assinate George Sr. Iam boycotting George Bush and am planning on running a anti war rally within the coming months, whos with me???

I cannot help but wonder if all of these champions of free speech would write as graciously if a group of people in Golden Gate Park were to publicly burn the Rainbow Flag..or a replica of the AIDS quilt..

Would it be racist to burn a Red-Black-Green African-American flag ?? Or a flag with a crescent moon on it to protest the actions of Radical Muslim clerics worldwide..

I am not condoning these kinds of things....but I do support the right of people to burn the flag if the motive is true..that is, it is done as a form of protest..

But I get the feeling that there are large numbers of America-haters in this country that really just like to do it to push other peoples buttons . Andif they had their druthers, they would burn a flag 2 or 3 times a day. Same idiots that defaced the memorials that sprang up after 9/11..no constructive actions or ideas..just hate...

Since our government is giving billions of dollars each year, $13 billion this year alone to racist, apartheid Israel, which has been conducting a brutal ethnic cleansing campaign against the indigenous non-Jewish Palestinian people, please burn the Israeli flag at your event. Now the Israelis are using our tax dollars to build an Apartheid Wall that is twice as high and seven times as long as the Berlin Wall, while stealing more of the Palestinians' lands. Our government is aware of this but they look the other way. Our government actually vetoed a UN Resolution condemning the Apartheid Wall. Our government is usually the ONLY country that vetoes the UN resolutions that call for Israel to stop committing war crimes and crimes against humanity. I DARE you to burn the Israeli flag at your event!

Burn the flag. It's your free speach right. Oh, and "your momma", why did you say you would rather be "homeless in America than poor somewhere else"? You'd rather be poor in a country where the poor are taxed to death and the rich get away with murder and get cash breaks off their taxes? Trickle down doesn't work by the way, Rich people are rich because they hoard their money. Their not going to stop hoarding it just because the government says to spend it. It's neive to think otherwise. I'd rather be poor where everyone is poor, so that everyone could get their asses together and get the country back to where it should be. Again, burn the flag, say Fuck, give someone the finger. You have freedoms in this country. Use them or you waste them.

Read it all,and I can't see any constructive solutions or ideas being brought forward.Only fighting.Everyone is so heated,verbally abusing oneanother...how is that ever gonna change anything?Those who are ignorant to whats happening in the world fixed on ridiculous ideas of race and sexuality I have nothing to say to.I never knew that such fanatic and ancient views still exist........But those who really want to improve things in the world,who can see injustice which I think is caused historically by imperialism....now america,Europe but also exists within third world country structures themselves,should not close themselves into political ideals as this isolates and excludes.We dont all have to agree on absolutely everything but I think we are on this site cause something is wrong.And should put our strenth together to better things and not waist our energy fighting over words.

Someone needs to flippantly spit in that guy's face.

Conflict is the ungovernable force.

glad someones finally fucking thinking id do it to

this is a wonderful site to see. burning the flag isn't a disgrace... being a part of a twisted and corrupt government hellbent on doing this religious war is a disgrace.

This picture is the most graceful thing possible in the United States of America. They take from the borderline, give to the unmotivated and reward the fortunate, fuck em. The USA is reaking havok, destoying, and attempting control on other countries and all the citizens of the US do is climb into their farming vehicles, SUVs, and pick-up trucks dressd in suits and go wait in line for overpriced horrible coffee made by illegal immigrants, then its off to work for a day of 6 hours of diligent labor, 1 hour of face stuffing fast food and 1 hour of preparartion to go home and nurture the family on propagandated news reports, box mix dinners and video game stimuli. The USA is not the LAND OF OPPORTUNITY, OR THE LAND OF FREE. THE USA IS THE LAND OF THE FOOLED, AND THE ONLY ONES WITH OPPORTUNITY ARE THE ILLEGALS, OR THE DISCRIMINATED. FUCK THE USA AND FUCK THE TROOPS

Dissent is Beautiful.
In All Our Decadence, Millions Suffer. They Call It Progress.
We Burn that Flag of Values Sworn in the Name of Those who suffer under the tyranny of the American empire.
Fuck the Flag and the Imperialist Nation it has always represented.

So because you don't like them exercising free speech in a way that the Supreme Court ruled is protected speech, speech those ancestors of us fought for, you want to use a baseball bat to physically assault them like a coward? Why do you need the bat? You're not man enough to stand up to them without one? Are you scared? And why is it people like you are against this, but support burning crosses and hanging nooses in Black people's yards?