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Ward Churchill-David Horowitz 'debate' series- April 6

by cp forward
Wow. I never thought I'd see this. After all, we tried to get David Horowitz to agree to a debate format when he came to Berkeley on his tour regarding his college newspaper ad stating that black people are lucky that slavers saved them from living in Africa, but he refused, and his handlers even had a graduate student arrested for criticizing them as he walked by outside (this is true!).
YAF initially sounds like the 1960s college conservative group "young americans for freedom" (which I believe Hillary Clinton was affiliated with??? this could be wrong). But here it seems like a similar group with same acronym.
I never got around to typing out my critique of Churchill's style at the annual anarchist book fair last weekend. The jist of it is that he could benefit by getting an out-of-work agreeable San Francisco real estate agent or Gap or Footlocker salesman who present his argument. Because it is 'anarchist' rather than a political philosophy like Leninism or constitutionalists referring to the godlike vision of the founding fathers, it is okay to separate the personality from the idea.
It could be worthwhile to take the positive philosophy approach advocated by Shellenberger and Nordhaus for making climate change and environmentalism politics more engaging http://adbusters.org/blogs/Big_Ideas_The_Death_of_Environmentalism.html

There are many signs that the 'indigenism' idea of Churchill could be warmly accepted by a large sector of society, but he was interpreting some audience questions as attacks. For instance, after the 2004 election, tons of people were asking "hey, why does out local region have to live under this president due to the Diebold equipment used 3000mi away in Florida and Ohio where they don't share our culture or speak with the same accent or have the same interests. Maybe we should secede". This wasn't a marginal or crazy viewpoint. Take that sentiment and move forward.
He also was not addressing the diverse learning styles of the audience, like teachers are supposed to, and was using abstract language without giving enough concrete examples. Everyone else has not taken ethnic studies courses, and might be operating with a vocabulary where 'race', 'ethnicity' and 'nationality' are taken as synonyms, and 'nation' and 'state' are synonyms. He drew a distinction between nations and states, but then didn't concretely clarify with specific examples how to proceed from this, even though his long indigenism essay which is on the web somewhere actually makes a lot of sense. For instance, he does advocate that nations should be able to control land with a borderlike construction. But why doesn't he realize that so many people automatically assume that he's advocating for people to be kicked out back to europe etc. in an ethnic cleansing approach. He should anticipate this from his audience and clarify that he doesn't advocate race based delineations of 'nations', and that this idea really is closer to traditional local control, and could reflect the 'bioregions' ideas that many others talk about. For instance, in Oregon and Washington, a large fraction of people on the east side of the cascades mutter about the different culture on the western side wanting to impose laws on them, and people in Seattle and Portland complain about the tax outflow to maintain eastern infrastructure etc. And why should people on either side have to pay taxes to support intervention in Iraq or for the ATF to arrest their marijuana dispensary clerks.
I'll stop rambling here
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David Horowitz vs. Ward Churchill: YAF Sponsors Academia's Royal Rumble

By: Jason Mattera
Posted 03/21/06
12:47 PM





Embattled Professor Ward Churchill has agreed to engage bestselling author and sought after speaker David Horowitz in a series of formal debates organized by Young America's Foundation and Students for Academic Freedom. The series of debates will kick off at George Washington University in Washington D.C. on April 6 in the Continental Ballroom with the other campus locations yet to be announced.

Churchill gained infamy for referring to the victims of September 11th as "little Eichmanns." Horowitz gained notoriety for his long-standing commitment to protecting the academic rights of students. He recently authored The Professors (which can be purchased here), an exposé of 101 radical professors representing leftist bias present in higher education today.

The wait is over. Horowitz will give Churchill an intellectual whuppin' for all to see.

Mr. Mattera is the spokesman for Young America's Foundation. He was born and raised in Brooklyn, N.Y., and graduated summa cum laude from Roger Williams University in Bristol, R.I.
by Joseph Anderson
"[David] Horowitz gained notoriety for his long-standing commitment to protecting the academic rights of students."

'Yeah', and Custer was protecting the academic rights of white people too. No, they were both trying to protect white supremacy -- and Horrorwitz was *attacking* the right of students to hear *real* history and real free speech -- which is why I gave David Horowitz an academic whuppin' at UC Berkeley back in 2001, and sent his ass turned tail and runnin' off like the coward that he is.


See, San Francisco Chronicle, "The Issue Is Racism"

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001/03/26/ED155503.DTL

and follow-up letter to the editor:

San Francisco Chronicle, "Twisted Claims"

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001/03/27/ED187756.DTL


"Racist ad is not free speech issue"

http://www.dailybruin.ucla.edu/news/printable.asp?id=3461&date=4/2/2001


This guest column also appeared in the Brown University Daily Herald and other university newspapers, under various titles, in the U.S. and Canada in March and April of 2001.


Brown Daily Herald

"Horowitz’s ad uses racist arguments to further claims"


Berkeley Daily Planet

"Why the David Horowitz ad in the Daily Cal was racist"
by The Rumble in Berkeley!
that Joseph Anderson of Berkeley sent running off at Horowitz's own speech at UC Berkeley, when Anderson's pointed question politically embarrassed Horowitz and forced Horowitz to collapse on his (DH's) own claims? Then suddenly, without notice, the red-faced Horowitz abruptly turned tail and ran off.

Didn't Horowitz embarrass the College Republicans in the process? Horowitz eagerly warmed up on the first two fairly ineffectual emotionally flailing questioners. It didn't look too exciting. Might as well, perhaps, go get a short sip from the hallway water fountain or go for a brief bathroom break. Then, "Free Speech" Horowitz, suddenly dazed, refused to take anymore questions after just the 3rd one: Anderson's skillful and disabling strike.

It's one thing to easily give bogus and twisted answers to your own right-wing choir of crazies. It's another thing entirely to try to give bogus, twisted and bumbling answers to a general audience: it makes you look like a damn fool.

Shadow boxing, as Horowitz, a loudmouth chump from "the right-wing bum of the month club", does in his right-wing rag, is a helluva lot easier than actually getting into the ring with someone highly skilled. Anderson was like Ali at his height. Quick. Cocky. Confident. Light on his feet. Anderson, just shifted his head from side to side (as he approached the mic), did the Ali shuffle ("David you claim that...") and suddenly, before the packed auditorium ("Isn't it really true David that [facts, facts, facts] ..."), took Horowitz down at the beginning of one round with Anderson's quick flurry of prodigious verbal punches. Horowitz stunned, gasping for words, stammered, stumbled and verbally collapsed.

It happened so fast that if you had stepped just briefly out of the auditorium to take a quick answer on your cell phone you would have missed it. You wouldn't have realized what just happened when you stepped back in. Just loud cheering and frenzied commotion. People all over the place. Cameras flashing. Reporters surging forth with notepads in hand. Horowitz never saw it coming. Glass-jawed Horowitz, dazed, barely able to collect himself, then threw in the towel and then took off like a coward.

The College Republican organizers, standing, staring aghast, utterly dumfounded. Made political and "free speech" laughingstocks as people finally mulled out of the auditorium.

Everybody on the Berkeley campus talking and writing about it in various student publications the next day.

It was a night to remember.
by douglas Meier (dls9556)
whoreowits sucks. Ward Churchill and truth do not suck. It is easy to make ad--hominid attacks, try reading his books! Neo--conservatives are nazis who love jews, who love terorism and fascism. Was fire--bombing Dresden and Hamburg and Tokyo acts of terrorism, ir Christian love?
by Zinaida Zalyotchik
Ward Churchill make up al what he says.

Don't you guys knough that?

He wrote in Soviet/Cuban publication "Covert Action Information Bulletin" that FBI let some guys kill 342 Indians. Later he chang his thinking and write FBI let some guys abuse 342 Indians. So what hapend to the Indians? Isn't they still dead or what?

I read this on a blog called http://www.legendofpineridge.blogspot.com

First post is called 342 Indians. http://legendofpineridge.blogspot.com/2006/02/342-indians.html

Churchill is so big lier that you do not see it.

This are his own words. Why does he sasy FBI kills 342 Indians and then says only assaulted these?

We ar of thinking this Mister Churchill got his PHD from same KGB institute as Putin. Everyone in Russia is lafing how Putin's thesis was copied from Americans.
So maybe Churchill gets his big lies from KGB too.

HE tell you stupid Americans that Army gave Indians smalpox, but this is sounding like KGB. Zyuganov right this minit is says Americans give Russian birds the flu. WE knough this is a lie.

WE is geting big joke about this Churchill. He is your Bagdad Bob, mabe I think. HE is puting noodles on your ears.

The guys who writed thesis for Putin copied from American book. They are a KGB institute you papers says. Churchill is just make up big stories from a little bit of trith.

That Churchill want you to hate FBI. HE want you to think FBI kill Americans. HE make up history like KGB. But now it is shown he make up footnotes about Smallpox.

We have the book here he "qoting" from. IT is by some Americans caled Stearn. We looks in book well, Churchill made up what it says.

The book is Effect of Smalpox on Destiny of Amerindian.
by Zinaida Zalyotchik
Mister Churchill wrinting that he was hiting his wife. She was an Indian. She got drunk and a car drived on her at late nigt.

I see he says FBI let guys klill ir assalting the INdians. What about how he hits his wife? She was a Indian.
http://legendofpineridge.blogspot.com/2006/02/assault-on-leah-kelly.html

Well, mabe FBI shall see why this lady who is dead drunk is drived on. The FBI investigates wen Indians is killed.

Churchill sais she was algohokic becaus of her family. Bit her family is mad. They say Churchill was mean to Leah Kelley--the Indian.

She was not Amerikan. She was Canadin. Is thats why the FBI dont see about why she is drived on by a car?

I read FBI caches Indian killers even in 1920 times. The white criminals kills Osage Indians for oil in Oklagoma.
The Indians wer poisoned and mad drunk. So many "accidents" so the Indians knoing it was some mafiya.

FBI catching the "King of the Osage Hills" William K. Hale and his gang. And William K Hale, John Ramsey and the Burkhardts all go to prison.

So I think if FBI will catch the mafiya was killing Indians in 1920 times well they dont helping
killing Indians now?

http://legendofpineridge.blogspot.com/2006/02/osage-indian-murders-and-legend-of.html

I read this hear and even look at FBI on Internet about this. I want to see KGB put there files on internet wen shrimp wistle. Mister Churchill is saying FBI is killing Indians bit it is not true I don't think so.

HE is puting noodles on youre ears guys.

We like you have such a big lier and not just us in Russia. Mabe Mistter Churchill can write for KGB institute that make PHD for communist party wen you are thre with him. Hed make millions.

HE is funny guy. But we knogh he is big joker here. He can maybe count the dead swans with Zyuganov and blame CIA for the bird gripp.







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