Female wrestling at US camp probed

AP - A female member of a US National Guard military police unit was demoted for indecent exposure after a mud-wrestling party at the Army-run Camp Bucca detention centre in Iraq, a military spokesman said.

The party occurred on October 30th, as the 160th Military Police Battalion, an Army Reserve Unit from Tallahassee, Florida, prepared to turn over its duties to the Asheville-based 105th Military Police Battalion, said Lieutenant Colonel Barry Johnson, spokesman for detainee operations at Camp Bucca.

In the course of the transfer of duties, "some individuals in their exuberance decided to put together a mud-wrestling thing," Johnson said by telephone.

"There were females involved, and some members of the 105th also became involved, one female soldier in particular."

Following an inquiry, that soldier was demoted and placed on restriction for participating in the event, specifically for indecent exposure, he said.

Four or five other members of the 105th who were spectators received counselling, Johnson said.

Johnson did not release the name of the demoted soldier.

However, she was identified by the Daily News as Deanna Allen, 19, and the New York newspaper's identification was confirmed by her mother, Ladyna Waldrop of Black Mountain.

Allen was demoted from specialist to private first class. She is still a guard at the camp, the newspaper reported.

The Daily News said it was given 30 of the party photos, and it printed several in Sunday's editions.

Waldrop said her daughter is devastated by the events.

"It was just a thing where she was coerced by a bunch of people, and with all the excitement, she lost her sanity for a moment and that's all it took," she said.

"It seems like they're just singling her out.

"She's the one getting all the publicity and punishment, and that's not right."

The 105th took over Camp Bucca on November 1st, and photos of the party were found after the 160th had left Iraq, Johnson said, adding that he understood a soldier had turned over the photos to commanders.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8083

G.I.rls Gone Wild, eh? Who woulda figured. Guess some of Lynndie's girlfriends stayed behind to support the morale of their fellow troops. Classy.

Since as one of these articles here implies, that this mud-wrestling activity seems to be no worse than happens at spring breaks by women and men college students all over the world, i bet there's another reason for the hullabloo around this "girls gone wild" style hijinx. As the Al-Jazeera story states, this "camp" was a prison where prisoners rioted last week, because of chargers of excessive beating. I bet there is another Al-Ghraib in the military's midsts and they're using this mud-wresstling "scandal" as way of deflecting light form the reela situation.

Most female and male college students do not engage in such gutter activities as mud wrestling. Most of us, including this writer, spent Easter vacation (now called spring break), writing term papers, doing general reading and, among workingclass students, working at our part-time jobs.

As to what goes on in the rest of the world, spring break is not common in the rest of the world. This gutter activity of mud wrestling is even less common. Believe it or not, most students are serious about their education.

This is not a detraction from the war crimes of the Nazi USA military, this is part and parcel of the whole gutter mentality of this bankrupt institution that should be abolished with all deliberate speed.

Little College Kitten,

Obviously your idea of a high stress enviroment is a bunch of term papers and studying in the library. How about you step out of college life which isnt real life and realize that these people were practicaly civilians untill they get called up and stuck in a confined high stress enviroment for a year.. apparently you didnt study any sciences concerning the mind.

The first thing people do when they find out they are no longer going to have to be doing that shit is to have some fun.. and realy what are you going to do? have a picnic?.. with what grass? oh wait lets go to the local club.... hhhmm we dont have those there. You have to make your own fun.. and there is nothing but dirt.. thank god they atleast got these guys some liquor.

Now if you hav'nt caught on to what i am trying to make as a point.. here it is. You and your life are lived by drasticaly different rules than theirs. You spent your easter break doing a part time job and studying. They dont get an easter break you freaking college airhead. apparently your great non "gutter mentality" college education failed to teach you perspective. SHALL WE COMPARE?

you, part time job get to go home to great shower and nice bed ac heat common home anemities -- them, 24 hr 7day a week on call everyday job with no anemities of home like you know it.

You have spring break --- they dont have any break for a year.


ONE OF YOUR STATEMENTS-
"Believe it or not, most students are serious about their education. "

And many students care about their country enough to put education on hold to protect your whinning bitch ass pussy fucks.

When was the last time you had to worry about sleep or being shot... from your list of worries about term papers and studying I think very little worry.

One thing college cant teach you is real life.. you learn a bunch of theory but real life is realy different.

I know how war is and peace is.. how other lands both advanced aswell as poor are. You write term papers..

Now go get some life PERSPECTIVE.
-

I attempt to make a serious point about what the Governent and the media might be up withb this "mud-wrestling scandal" and you both fall for the trap. I never attended a spring break when i went to college (i wasn't rich and heterosexual) but some people did. They weren't bad and sexist people. Live and let live, wha†ever floas your boat, whatever. To compare that to whether done in the military or at spring break to what the torture of people is a little strong. But then you get "Guy recently out of army" who i will call "the Jerk" because he is one. He doesn't at all mention or dela with my point, falling into hte trap, the way the governemnt and media want him to. Arguing in one of the smarmiest, sexist, patronizing ways against what the college woman wrote, the tries tio justify what the soldiers were doing with their mud-wrestling. I almost feel sad for The Jerk, playing his role (badly) as a apologist for the occupation of Iraq, and for the inevitable brutality that makes up that war, but you can''t really feel sorry for sexist pig jingoistic apologists. You just got to line them up against the wall.

Hey female college graduate, didnt you ever have fun in college?

Just because the rest of the world is BORING doesnt mean WE over her have to be boring.

My opinion is whoever ordered the demotion of this poor girl is an idiot, common now it was a mud wrestling match.

anyway I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in.

"I bet there is another Al-Ghraib in the military's midsts and they're using this mud-wresstling "scandal" as way of deflecting light form the reela situation."

It may deflects negative attention in the US but for Iraqis I wonder if these types of scandals are not more significant in dirving people to demand the US leave. The prison violence is horrifying but most Iraqis will see it as something that could (and probably will) still occur after the US is gone. Actions by US troops that seem direspectful of Islamic norms are much more likley to increase demands for the US to leave.

Islamic norms only apply to practicing Moslems.

"Islamic norms only apply to practicing Moslems."

Sure, but if you look at the reasons US troops in Saudi Arabia were so unpopular it was mainly because of rumors of things like this rather than direct US oppression or abuse of Saudis. Since Iraq looks like its likley to be a religious state indirectly run by Sistani charges that US troops are doing things like this will probably raise more of a demand for US troops to leave than will the things that may be more likley to horrify Americans.

"More"!?! The Iraqi people are already waging opne war against the American troops, and they're winning. How much more demanding than that can they be?

"How much more demanding than that can they be? "

Well, Sistani so far hasnt said anything demanding the US leave in the immediate future. Nor has al-Hakim, or other of the more well know clerics.

The existing resistance is divided and weak. Bombings of police stations and attacks on Shiite mosques has alienated the majority from at least portions of the resistance. Can the existing resistance be more demanding of the Americans? Probably not but I guess it depends on what you mean by demanding. Can Iraqis be more demanding? Of course. There is anger at the US but one only has to look at how the election went to see that a major portion of Iraqis somehow think that a UIA government will be able to peacefully ask the US to leave and that demands are not yet necessary. If the UIA is kept from real power, the UIA "lets the US stay" or the US refuses to to leave despite a request by the new government, there will be a much larger resistance than one has now with a much more clear demand that the US leave.

That's propaganda. Here's the facts:

http://www.g2mil.com/May2004.htm

Send me the pics!

I want to thank you for expressing yourself thats your right. One protected by these great Americans. But I really want to thank all those that serve and those 1000 Plus and still counting that have sacrfice their lives so you can go to college and express yourself in anyway you wish. God bless them and shame on you. Yes all people sometimes make dumb mistakes. And I think you just did

Bitch bitch bitch. I'm so sick and tired of these goddamn soldiers whining how we don't apreciate them. We don't. Get over it. You just an international cop. And how do we treat cops in America? Like the shit they are. You bitch and whine that nobody gives you any respect cuz you're risking your ass in Iraq.

Nobody's holding a gun to you head (figure of speach) to join the army. You volunteered your dumb ass. I'm supposed to respect you cuz you're a mindless dipshit who couldn't manage to get a real job? Yeah right. You try that invading shit in my town and I'll bust a cap in your ass. Fo real yo.

Didn't go too far in school, huh?? So now you're a big bad frog in a little bitty pond, yo.
Get out of the town you grew up in and see the world a little bit before you judge things that you don't comprehend. Oh, comprehend means understand, yo.

This kinda shit happens all the time... has always happened and will always happen... it is only because of the digital era that this gets out and you non "real-life" living folk get a glimpse... i am a military member and have seen the progression that the digital camera has brought upon the "R & R" of EVERYone... how many websites out there have these little (camera phone) pictures of naked women/people behaving badly? it's every where now... and when you take a percentage of the general population and put uniforms on them, it doesn't mean that these people will NOT act like a percentage of the general population... and i agree with "ex-military going to college guy"... when given the circumstances these uniformed "percentage" are put into, you do what you gotta do to have fun!!!! you silver spoon, mommy and daddy are paying for college hippies need to realize this fact... although you probably couldn't even BEGIN to comprehend the feeling of a single bullet flying over your head let alone the living conditions these soldiers have come to call home... so you just keep reading and writing and arithmitic-ing in your cozy little dorm rooms and SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!! let em have their fun... they deserve it.

First off, the soldiers that keep getting into trouble are the "Weekend Warrior" Reservists...
The behavior displayed at Abu Ghraib and Camp Bucca is absolutely disgusting! These soldiers are a disgrace to not only themselves, but also the country they serve, and their fellow soldiers.
The rest of the world sees these pictures too! That helps...
If you want to do this stuff, the mud wrestling and body flashing, fine, by all means, go for yours. But put yourself in the proper environment. Go to a party college, join a frat house, whatever.
The men are not excused from the situation, but the females should be living and upholding a higher-standard, setting a good example, and not losing sight of the pride, respect, and acknowledgement the United States Military deserves. The same pride, respect and acknowledgement that the world laughs at when they see stuff like this.
Like I said, I am absolutely disgusted and ashamed to be a part of the same military, let alone the same country as these immature teenie-bopper wannabees that think that we're all "playing soldier" and "it's all a game"...
Where they are, they may not live with the fear or threats that some of the rest of us are around, but they should have more respect for the uniform, the military, the country, and THEMSELVES.
I'm getting off my soapbox now. Thanks for listening.

First off, the soldiers that keep getting into trouble are the "Weekend Warrior" Reservists...
The behavior displayed at Abu Ghraib and Camp Bucca is absolutely disgusting! These soldiers are a disgrace to not only themselves, but also the country they serve, and their fellow soldiers.
The rest of the world sees these pictures too! That helps...
If you want to do this stuff, the mud wrestling and body flashing, fine, by all means, go for yours. But put yourself in the proper environment. Go to a party college, join a frat house, whatever.
The men are not excused from the situation, but the females should be living and upholding a higher-standard, setting a good example, and not losing sight of the pride, respect, and acknowledgement the United States Military deserves. The same pride, respect and acknowledgement that the world laughs at when they see stuff like this.
Like I said, I am absolutely disgusted and ashamed to be a part of the same military, let alone the same country as these immature teenie-bopper wannabees that think that we're all "playing soldier" and "it's all a game"...
Where they are, they may not live with the fear or threats that some of the rest of us are around, but they should have more respect for the uniform, the military, the country, and THEMSELVES.
I'm getting off my soapbox now. Thanks for listening.

"That's propaganda. Here's the facts: http://www.g2mil.com/May2004.htm"

That link is interesting and shows the problems the US is facing but doesnt really deal with the divisions among those in the Iraqi resistance. I think the Shiite Sunni divisions are overplayed but one clearly does have a divisions between those Shiites who voted for Allawis party and those who supported Sadr. One also has a divisions between the UIA (DAWA and SCIRI) and the group that has been targetting UIA leaders as well as the Kurds and Turkmen etc... Its a pretty different situation for Iraqis that Vietnam or Korea even though it may look the same with respect to the US. When the US pulled out of Vietnam the end result was a given but in Iraq one owuld guess that an automous Kurdish state and a religious Shiite state in the South would emerge but its far less clar what would happen to the central and Western portions of the country. If the purpose of the US is to keep troops in the country the divisions make things a lot easier than in Korea or Vietname but its not clear thats the US agenda; a El Salvador type situation with Special Opertions forces mixed with local death squads would be much more benefitial to the US since it would allow the US to pull troops out that could be used to intimidate other countries.

Nobody else in the world would do such a depraved thing. Except for people in Brazil right now celebrating Carnival, or people in Spain who have bullfights, or people in Indonesia who sell 8 year old girls for 5 dollars. Being a Hippie Bitch might free you from the responsibility to admit logic to yourself, but it doesn't mean I won't call you on it.

there still are apparently plenty of pigs and trailer trash. So it's OK for girlfriend to strip and get nekkid for the boys? Don't see the boys reciprocating- not that we'd all appreciate the view if they did.

Because these people are supposedly representing the United States, Mister. According to Dubyah anyhow. So they better keep their damn noses clean and represent. What they do in a Muslim or any other state reflects on all of us "ugly Americans". We didn't get that title for nothing. Raping little girls in Asia, and god knows what else.

If I were you Jake, I'd call yourself on being a typical patronizing know-it-all American- Butt Ugly style.

it's Muslim.

I just love how people, likely sipping a nice beer, or a good glass of wine, are criticizing this event in Iraq. None of you have probably ever spent a year in a place like that in your lives. The soldiers were most likely involved in some much needed stress relief, only to have someone from amongst their own, decide to make public what was obviously a private affair. I don't think any of the female participants did so against their will, none were raped as a result. These are indeed soldiers, but each of them are human, and their actions are no different than what likely goes on at college campuses around the country and europe as well. Just another fine example of main stream media looking for something else to criticize in Iraq. Get a life...

Why is anyone surprised by this? The Army has done this to themselves. Privates and lower enlisted now run the Army. Over the last few years The Pentagon has tied the hands of NCO's and its Leadership. This has happened because of the Media, the Liberals and the rest of the touchy feely people in this great and once proud Country have forgot what the hell the Armed Forces are for...To kick-ass and win whatever our government sends them out to do. You can't do this by subjecting our soldiers to "sensitivity training" or any of the other crap we are now enduring....Dicipline has been replaced by worring about offending someone...making sure sub-standard soldiers are happy with being just that, sub-standard...Start cracking down again, get rid of the riff raft....teach soldiers to be tuff when they first join the army (anyone that has gone to basic in the past 10 years knows that it's a total joke) and make sure they know from the start what the hell the Army is about... Give me the Army I joined in the early 90's before pussies we're leading it...I know a lot of this is rambling...but anyone that is a real soldier in the Army or any of our Forces knows that I speak a lot of truth...the next real war we have,our sensitivity trained soldiers, are going to get there asses handed to them....China and North Korea have actual trained killers (soldiers) in there Army and will be using them if we ever go to war with them

I dont know why you guys are going nuts over this, ok i see th point that they are representing the US and should be responsible, but like they said they are also under stress and are just human. both points valid, but y cant you guys just support the ppl over there! You might not agree with the reasons y the military are over there, butthe bottom line is THEY ARE and those people need your support, they are just doing their job, they didnt get a choice whether they wanted to go or not, they just got told to go. so cut them some slack and support them even if you dont support the reasons why they are over there! geezz...

I used to live in the US, but i never thought you guys could be so self consumed...

I agree with 'myself', sure it might have gone a bit far and probably should't go unnoticed, but they havent exactly enjoyed the support of the country over there. what did they do worng to get sent over there... NOTHING!
Yes, what happened is punishable, but surely not worht this big fuss!!

Female college graduate. Sometimes it makes me sick to think that I protect your right to free speech. The fact that you called the U.S. military Nazi's is appalling. Did Nazi's help the victims of the tsunami in asia? Did the Nazi's take out an evil dictator who regularly operated rape, and torture rooms, and killed people just for the fun of it? Did the USA kill millions of innocent jews because we didn't like them? Did the Nazi's help out just about every other damn country on earth? Did the Nazi's let you badmouth their leader or military? No you were killed if you did. Oh, by the way socialist, your hero Stalin killed more people than Hitler. If you really don't like the US, I suggest you get out ASAP. Also if you think the military should be abolished, go for it and then see what happens when the fascists take over and you're wearing a burka and having your genitalia cut out. From a proud military man who would die for your right to be an idiot.

This kind of horseplay is common in the military - ours as well as yours. Its a way of letting off steam and should not be confused with other incidents both at Abu Graib and in the British sector which are a separate matter and which I certainly don't condone.

A large percentage of you Americans can be very prudish about alcohol and nudity. These troops deserve their R & R. Their worst crime was getting found out.

College girl - you need to lighten up. We have an expression in the UK for people like you - its known as being "up yourself". Zero - judging from your post you are one bad ass m. f. gangsta - America's worst export.

You may not appreciate your military but I and many others in the UK , Europe and large parts of the rest of the world do. I have no illusions about what Europe and the Far East would be like without American protection for the last 60 years.

Hello all, been reading through the posts here, and was not surprised to find what I did. Comments about the Nazi American military, and their occupation of iraq....

Well, let me tell you a little about our occupation here, considering I am sitting here in that very country typing this.

Did you know that the people over here are now thanking us for what we have done for them? Did you know that the primary function of the military over here is to support the reconstruction of the country? By protecting IRAQI workers from their own countrymen, and foreign nationals?


Did you know that the people that are in prisons such as Abu-Ghraib, and Camp Bucca, were all placed there on tips from local IRAQI people? People who had been terrorized, beaten, forced out of their homes, by their OWN COUNTRY MEN?

What is going on over here more than a war, its a rebuilding of a nations pride, a battle for the hearts and minds of future generations. We fight that battle by helping them get on their feet, providing them with training in construction, security, finance... as well as by using force of arms when required.

The other side, they fight the battle with threats, by taking peoples homes to store weapons in, by using strong arm tactics to beat other Iraqis into submission. By kidnapping and killing not only Americans, but their own flesh and blood.

Do I have a biased view? of course I do, I have seen it, lived it, been there. Those of you who so readily jump on a bandwagon to bash things that you have no understanding of are exactly same type of people that resist the change in countries like Iraq. Take a long, hard look at your ideals, and compare them to those that attempt to force innocent children into carrying suicide bombs because they dont like the fact their country might have a new government....

Oh, and next time you are out beating your protest signs, don't forget to thank the American soldiers, at least for about five seconds, for actually volunterring to defend that very right of yours, and, for volunteering to go away from family and loved ones, to hopefully instill those rights in a country across the sea.

As far as the comment made about this stuff not happening at colleges around the country.... HAH!!! you should check out a website, called COLLEGEFUCKFEST, thats where all the future leaders, doctors, and lawyers are. Next time you see a website called MILITARYFUCKFEST, let me know. I think I saw you on one of the videos (points at the spectacled girl holding the DOWN WITH THE DEPRAVED MILITARY sign)

The military is a microcosm of society, meaning, it reflects the the greater whole. So before you go bashing some young kids for blowing off steam in a country where just walking outside without body armor is a risky proposition, do me and yourself a favor, and go ask for forgivness for the alst time that you commited any sort of sin, such as premarital sex, drinking, smoking weed, so that you can bash them with a clear mind and soul.

Sure, they represent the country, and what they did was wrong, and yes, they should be punished by the military, they broke rules, they got caught, they pay the price. But dont take their situation as a chance to bash all the good things that the military is doing over here. Since doing so proves your ignorance and pathetic lack of driving force in your life other than the desire to make others feel as miserable as you are.

have a nice day.

No, you aren't supposed to respect us because we volunteer- you respect us because without us you are vulnerable. America is the richest country in the world. Do you think the bandits and thugs of the world would think twice about taking that? That is what this system, and the world political scene is all about dumbass. Can thugs with bombs and a motive push legitimate governments around? You decide whether social order is important- I will go out to the front lines and defend your right to do so.

and the only reason you have the right to say such idiotic,malicious,rude,and unpatriotic nonsense is because of us that where this uniform with pride.enjoy your freedom jackass.

sgt richard ferrell

alot of us here in iraq are married men,with loving families,from whom weve been seperated from for a very long time.we want nothing more than to return home to them with honor and knowing that we served our countrey.because of the actions of the few,many will be judged.everyone involved in that incident should be punished on numerous couns such as conduct unbecoming,dereliction of duty,fraternization,and im sure there was alchohol involved,but no one administered the test.deployments are stressful for everyone involved.that doesnt condone the behavior of the soldiersa involved in that incident,especially the ncos.i am proud to say that if this incident would have happened in my unit,all parties,regardless of rank or position,would have had there asses handed to them.i ask all the people who read this,do not think of all soldiers this way.99& do the right thing,and this 1% is all the public sees. sgt richard ferrell
baghdad iraq

"and the only reason you have the right to say such idiotic,malicious,rude,and unpatriotic nonsense is because of us that where this uniform with pride.enjoy your freedom jackass."

How is that? When was the last time the US military did something that was defending the US? Since WWII all US wars have been about global politics that had nothing to do with defense. The military in any country is the main thing that threatens freedom. In Nepal the military just cut off all phone service and arrested the government to protest everyone's freedom from the Maoists. In Darfur I bet those carrying out the genocide claim they are protectecting the freedom of those they kill. The one good thing about Bush's stupid wars is that is does help cut down on military back here. For every stupid ass solider who dies, thats one fewer asshole we have to deal with back in the US. The US shoud get the hell out of Iraq, but we dont want the fucking military back here to threaten our freedom. Every US soldier that dies really is helping preserve our freedom. Hopefully the Iraqi resistance will step up their attacks and help preserve our freedom a little faster.

I was raised with the idea that the military deserves respect-and I still believe that it does. However, isn't it a job? I understand that it is a dangerous job, but the country we live in doesn't put a gun to your head and tell you to join. I'm a little tired of how proud some of you people are of being proud of yourselves. You took the risk, you take the paycheck and you get to avoid the competion of the real capitalist working environment that the rest of us have. Certain members of the military love to say how much they would die for our freedoms. If it were a question of OUR freedom I gladly agree. But this is Iraqi freedom, not American. You can call us unappreciative, but it's our taxes that are paying for YOUR job.

sorry, but let's not forget these kids, and yes they are kids, are over there getting shot it. and we expect that they will not drink and have sex?

considering that most kids their age are in college whooping it up at frat parties, how can we expect anything else? because we have a higher morality?

come on. the rest of the world thinks we are a joke because we get offended when someone exposes a breast. i am over here in Germany and see old ladies reading newspapers sporting - oh no - bare chested females on the front cover. is anyone like me more shocked about the people who are getting blown up by bombs or our kids getting shot up?

Deanna Allen has every right to blow off some steam by flashing her goodies. ;) If I was fighting a losing war for my country and wanted to blow off some steam, you better believe I wouldn't care what Uncle Sam had to say about it.

I am a combat veteran who has served around the world on various missions. I simply ask that you think about what is worse, 1) The US attacking and forcing its "Democracy" on Iraq in the name of 911 and weapons of mass destruction or 2) Dumb female soldiers who lost their military bearing along with a gaggle of other ogglers and picture takers...

1) Abu Ghrab prison abuses or 2) police abuse that happens here every day

I'm not sure we want to make the distinction, but we should. The truth of the matter is that there are officers and senior enlisted in charge of these soldiers who are simply NOT doing their jobs. There are soldiers who are NOT trained well enough to make good decisions in the face of bad ones. This happened in OCTOBER ... there is a reason we are just hearing about it.

Take a step back understand that the military is nothing more than a slice of Americana - it reflects every aspect of our society and is magnified by lesser numbers. There are many troops doing the right thing and very few who are caught up in other things. It could be much worse. So far I've read hatred towards Muslims, towards the military, towards the war, and other things - but what I haven't heard is the truth about who WE are. Mankind is flawed. he is an emotional creature easily effected by his environment - those girls made a bad decision but I don't see anyone stepping in, obeying the CREEDO of the organization and country they have sworn to protect and stopping this insanity.

I see a lot of media folk all too happy to report this, and a lot of arm chair warriors all too eager to condemn. UCMJ is very clear - those who enforce it are not. One, ONE SOLDIER was demoted for her actions - what about all the rest? What about the reasons we're supposed to be there in the first place. Land of the Free and Home of the Brave...unless we want something from you. I'm not a hater. I'm a realist. Think before you react.

You, sir, are a complete fuc%ing moron but I'm sure you've been told this many times before!

Like Deanosaur I have to wonder.... Why would any major US newspaper even bother with this? "GI's get drunk and party" ranks right up there with"Fireman Rescues Kitten from Tree". I can't believe that peop;le are arguing about this or taking it at all seriously.....

Just goes to show what wonderful freedom we have here when a low educated person who has no sense of anything can make a claim like the person from "how is that" did.This person must have either grown up in LA or in a low life house to be able to make statements like that.Wishing for more of our soldiers to die. I would love to see this person in any form of military and stuck in the front line to experince first hand what the service members get to. Granted the soldiers signed up for "WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN" and not just sit around the house with their fist up their butt. If you truley believe that the military hasn't done anything for this country since WWII you are sadley mistaken. I wish we could send "how is that" to another country to live for just 1 year to see how good they had it here.

To all the Service Men and Women
Thanks for all you do and thanks for putting your life on the line day and night to allow those less educated (or those too educated) the right to express their views. Here's to hoping and praying you all come home safe.

So that is why during Spring Break that it is SRO at virtually any place that kids might want to go, becasue they are sutdying so hard. Give me a break. puhleaze. Sure there are those that don participate in spring break but I'd bet all I have that anyone tha can go , will go..

Your remarks hit ithe nail right on the head Good job !!!!!
She really is a whiny college girl
( probably never gone out with a guy either)

Guy in Iraq and Military amn Well said both of you .. and a BIG THANK YOU I am proud of our military and I dispise people who call them Nazi;s or other derogatory names. College bitch needs to find a new country cuz I don't want her here or people like her either. THey stink.

And your point is? The wizard just called and said your brain might not be ready for a few weeks..
What does your diatribe have to do with our military and what we have done? NOTHING!
What do you think global politics is is about by the way? The military does not run this country like in other countries.
I would love to see you out in the desert in Iraq and see how long you would last.. hopefully not very long.. especially if you bash our troops G F Y S


"How is that? When was the last time the US military did something that was defending the US? Since WWII all US wars have been about global politics that had nothing to do with defense. The military in any country is the main thing that threatens freedom. In Nepal the military just cut off all phone service and arrested the government to protest everyone's freedom from the Maoists. In Darfur I bet those carrying out the genocide claim they are protectecting the freedom of those they kill. The one good thing about Bush's stupid wars is that is does help cut down on military back here. For every stupid ass solider who dies, thats one fewer asshole we have to deal with back in the US. The US shoud get the hell out of Iraq, but we dont want the fucking military back here to threaten our freedom. Every US soldier that dies really is helping preserve our freedom. Hopefully the Iraqi resistance will step up their attacks and help preserve our freedom a little faster."

"I am proud of our military and I dispise people who call them Nazi;s or other derogatory names. College bitch needs to find a new country cuz I don't want her here or people like her either. THey stink."

little boy, try to remember, that in spite of that authoriarian Bush, we are still in name a free country, and it doesn't fucking matter who in hell *you* personally want here or not.

Grow up. And clean up the potty mouth. "Bitch" is an appropriate term for a female canine. When used by a cracker like you, it's sexist.

I wonder how mean and frightening you would be if the US military did invade your "hood". Just so you know; I will defend this nation and these "whining soldiers" with my life, if necessary, and I have never been in any branch of the military. If it means protecting those that protect the future of my family, the future of freedom and, yes, even your future, I will take whatever "cap" you can muster. I will do so without whining, or even so much as flinch or blink. You have obviously been raised in such a manner as to neither care nor feel responsible for your own actions let alone your freedom. You are the same, mindless, cur that bites the hand that feeds him. To that I say shame on your parents. Shame on your mother for not teaching you right from wrong. Shame on her for not teaching you about personal responsibility. Shame on your father for not teaching you to respect those that make it possible for you to live in the manner that you do in this great nation. Shame on him for not teaching you to be a man. I am not surpised that you take the postion you do since your parents were likey the same type of parasite that you have become, glad to take from those that sacrifice more than you ever could or would so that you can own and use a computer, roll unimpeded through the hood, sling your bling, steal from your parasitic mother, hate your parasitic father if you only knew who he was, fire blindly at innocent people unaware, and defecate on those that give their lives to protect all that you have and do. Personally I think you are a small person with a small mind from a small time neighborhood that doesn't deserve to live but, I will defend your rights and your freedom with my very life. Just like you are one of my immediate family. Just like the whiney, unappreciated soldiers. Like them, I expect nothing from you in return other than the same fear filled rhetoric you feel necessary to spew in order to feel like you are somebody.

I find it a never ending source of amusement the amount of energy wasted (mine included) by people arguing over points that have absolutely no bearing on anything whatsoever.

Scantily clad women have been flaunting their wares, and horny men have been visually devouring them for as long as humanity has been "civilized". This has not caused nations to topple, nor society to crumble. If it was really a behavior that was detrimental to us as a species, evolution would have erradicated it eons ago.

The only people it really seems to offend are those with strong religious based moral values. And frankly, those people have had way too much power for way too long. Thank God (pun intended) that I was born in the era that science, and the beginning of our true understanding of the universe we live in has begun to decay religion's poisonous hold over humanity.

MAY DEANNA'S TITTIES NEVER SAG!!!

Where do I start. First off, what have we done to protect the U.S.? Well, let's begin with WW2. We stopped our friends the Nazi's from taking over your friends the communists, and from ruling all of Europe and Africa, which if going unchecked would have spread here. And last time I checked Hawaii was part of the U.S., and when it was bombed we went to war to protect the U.S. Since then we have been "protecting" our interests in Korea, and Vietnam trying to stop the spread of communism. And in Afghanistan and Iraq, we are trying to fight terrorism over there so we don't have to here. Who's it for, you forget that we in the military pay taxes too. And it is voluntary, so people like you who don't know anything about the military or care to can stay out so you don't get people killed unnecessarily. We are proud because we're part of an organization that has been protecting Americans since 1775. Are you not a proud American? Doesn't sound like it. How is that, you have the distinction of being the biggest moron I have ever come in contact with. So, here's your homework. Tell me how the military has taken away your freedoms, or liberty? I expect that to be double spaced and 3 to 5 pages. You know what never mind, you couldn't get a sentence written on that subject. So, if you really hate the military, keep bad mouthing us, and then hopefully they'll bring back the draft, and you can be the first to die, because obviously you are oblivious to the fact that we protect your freedom to be a psycho whackjob. Oh and little edward go back to community college and tell me what authoriarian means. Also, I think he used the word bitch in the proper context. And "cracker" is the appropriate term for a saltine. When used by someone like you it's RACIST!

The following is a quote from a fellow, I found it to be interesting.

"How is that? When was the last time the US military did something that was defending the US? Since WWII all US wars have been about global politics that had nothing to do with defense. The military in any country is the main thing that threatens freedom. In Nepal the military just cut off all phone service and arrested the government to protest everyone's freedom from the Maoists. In Darfur I bet those carrying out the genocide claim they are protectecting the freedom of those they kill. The one good thing about Bush's stupid wars is that is does help cut down on military back here. For every stupid ass solider who dies, thats one fewer asshole we have to deal with back in the US. The US shoud get the hell out of Iraq, but we dont want the fucking military back here to threaten our freedom. Every US soldier that dies really is helping preserve our freedom. Hopefully the Iraqi resistance will step up their attacks and help preserve our freedom a little faster."

My friend, allow me to educate you on a couple of things.

1. Your comment that stated that the "resistance should step up their attacks" Are you aware the 29 people died over here yesterday? And that they were all iraqi civilians and government workers? And they were actually the targets? Sounds to me like you are advocating the killing of the Iraqi people.

2. How does the military threaten your freedom in the states? You act intelligent and educated, so you MUST know that the US military has no authority on US soil, to do anything. All we do in the states is go to work, go home, and play with our kids, just like anyother human being.


Frankly, you come off as intelligent, when in reality, you are have no inkling of the world beyond the borders of your deluded mind.


Do not presume to compare the actions of the US military in Iraq to the actions of other military organizations aroudn the world, it like comparing you to a human being, two completely different things.

Your comments are childish, rude, and downright deplorable. You are entitled to your opinion, the constitution guarantees that. You are also entitled to free speech, to bad the bill of rights could not guarantee inteligent speech.

Quit lurking in the background and do something productive for your fellow man. I just recently go done repairing a water distribution plant that was blown up by insurgents, and that serviced 5 villages here, what have you doen for your fellow man in your lifetime?

If ignorance is bliss, then you must be high as a kite. Have a nice day.

So, here we go again. First off, no, this is nowhere *near* as bad as Abu Ghraib. So, if you're going to respond to this, please don't try and pretend I wrote that. I didn't.

Where this *is* similar to Abu Ghraib is that a lot of us here in the US seem to think that the whole 'oh this isn't anything worse than spring break' line of argument has any validity whatsoever.

In other words, we can sit here and justify this till the end of time- it's just a naked body, the body isn't evil, they were just having fun, they were just relaxing, blowing off steam, oh you've never been in the military so you don't get to have an opinion, etc etc. These arguments share a fundamental flaw: they're all based on our perception of this incident.

It could not be any more meaningless whether or not we think this is a bad thing, just as, in the end, the overall public opinion of Abu Ghraib *in the US* was completely beside the point.

What matters is how these actions are viewed by the people on whose soil they've taken place. This didn't happen here in America. Whether or not this offends us is not the point. This took place in a land that's likely to become a theocracy soon, in a society in which people have a much different concept of what's acceptable and what isn't. It's not up to us to decide, and it's incredibly arrogant to act otherwise.

So, was it really that bad? From the perspective of the people on whose soil it took place, I suspect the answer would be "yes."

"I just recently go done repairing a water distribution plant that was blown up by insurgents, and that serviced 5 villages here"

Remember Ronnie's Freedom Fighters? Well, one man's insurgent is another's freedom fighter. Simply get out of their country and let them deal with what you've already done. They don't want you there. None of you begin to understand Islamic culture. You got Saddam- happy? no WMDs - SO SORRY. Come on home, before the powers that be cut your benefits even further.


freedom fighter
n : a person who takes part in an armed rebellion against the constituted authority (especially in the hope of improving conditions) [syn: insurgent, insurrectionist, rebel]
Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

insurgent
adj : in opposition to a civil authority or government [syn: seditious, subversive] n 1: a person who takes part in an armed rebellion against the constituted authority (especially in the hope of improving conditions) [syn: insurrectionist, freedom fighter, rebel] 2: a member of an irregular armed force that fights a stronger force by sabotage and harassment [syn: guerrilla, guerilla, irregular]
Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

Its YOUR taxes that are paying for MY job? HOLY CRAP!!! STOP THE PRESSES!!!!

Its also MY Taxes that are paying for MY job!!!! COINCIDENCE!!!! WOW!!! I NEVER REALIZED THAT!!!


And yes I VOLUNTEERED. Yes its a JOB.


however, I dont compare what I do to some other 28 year old mail room clerk that works for some corporation, who probably does not pay taxes anyway, and who is hoping against hope that the college eduaction that he paid for will pay off for him.

This next bit is not for you quiet one.

By the way, I do have a degree, in history and literature of all things, so to the person that stated that people join the military because they cant make it anywhere else, or that they are too stupid to complete college, get your facts straight. And, of all things, I am an enlisted guy, one of the grunts if you will. And I went to college PRIOR to joining the military, so your precious taxes did not pay for that.

Understand that your taxes support much more than the military, adn, over the past years, military funding has been decreasing, how? by cuting back on the number of people in the military for one, providing better training for those that are here, so that we dont need so many of us.

Dont argue the point that you pay my salary, no crap, I pay my salary, I also help pay for federal schoplarships for people that use them to go to college, and do nothing but rally around causes which they have no real understanding of. So, to all the taxpayers out there, ( myself and other military members) thanks for providing my salary, which after 8 years in amounts to that of an entry level mail clerk, and to all the rich kids that like to gripe and moan, who went to college on a scholarship that is most likely subsidised by the federal government, your welcome.... oh wait, you didnt say thanks... I can wait..

Have a nice day.

The one good result of this war in Iraq is that so many redneck US soliders are getting killed. If they want to foll themselves into thinking they are fight for this or that reason, let them. People who join the military deserve to die.

Wow, I neva realised how retarded most of you all are, even after having lived in the US for 3 years. No iraqi deserves to die, but if the military hadn't gone in more iraqi's would have died anyway under Saddam. I dont support the reasons the military went in to Iraqi but i do support the soldies that are doing there jobs there. If you guys think the army is bullshit, you guys try it, some countries have conscription, all of you whingers, girls and guys alike wouldnt last 1 month in the army if your country did.Your whinging cos some teenager flashed her tits in Iraq. Get a life.

oh and great thread...your a faggot, no body deserves to die...even what you call redneck US soldiers...you need help buddy.

My God - there are some nasty, sick, poisonous, psycho comments in this thread. If American society is really that polarised then I feel sorry for you all.

To Great Thread
What a loser you are. Maybe the crackhouse you live in will be blown up by the drug dealers today and vermin like you will cease to exist. And while you are at it, Thank a soldier for your right to be a complete and utter imbecile and engaging in racist rhetoric because in other countries around the world, you would be somebody's BITCH.

"Cricket is allowed but chess is "absolutely forbidden". Women may not shake hands with men. Music is permitted but only if it is not for enjoyment. Men cannot pray when wearing earrings. These are the views of the most powerful man in Iraq. After the US invasion, various American officials and generals believed they occupied this position. They turned out to be wrong. As the election victory of the Shias has confirmed, the most influential figure in Iraq, dressed in tattered grey robe and black turban, is Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani....Iraq could be on the verge of seeing the greatest setback to women's rights in the Middle East since Ayatollah Khomeini took power in Iran in 1979. Laws on marriage, divorce and inheritance could be changed in favour of men. Under Islamic law, daughters inherit less than the sons. The views of Ayatollah Sistani on chess, cricket, music, earrings and almost any other topic can be found on his highly professional website (http://Sistani.org)."
http://www.indybay.org/news/2005/02/1720407.php

"The new Iraq, in short, may look a good deal like Iran-lite -- a state where Shiite clerics exercise indirect control, and that poses less of a threat to the wider world than the regime of the Iranian theocrats. But, Cheney's assurances notwithstanding, how can we be certain that the Shiite clerics of Iraq and Iran won't begin to find common cause on a range of issues?"

"Indeed, it's not hard to foresee a time a year from now, when U.S. Special Forces are in harm's way in underground operations attacking the mullahs' regime in Iran while U.S. soldiers and Marines are in harm's way defending a government of increasingly Iran-style mullahs in Iraq."

"Our intervention in Iraq is already the War of the Vanishing Raisons D'Etre -- a war to save the world from a madman's arsenal, which, when the arsenal turned out not to exist, turned into a war to instill democracy in the Arab Middle East, and could now morph into a war to cement Koranic law. An unintended consequence of Bush's rush to war, certainly, but not at all an unpredictable one. And a most peculiar cause to ask American men and women to die for." -Washington Post

http://www.indybay.org/news/2005/02/1720405.php

US troops have massacred ten of thousands of Iraqis and are pushing Iraq in the direction of Iran. Many US soliders believed in what they were fighting for and fell for the lies about freedom and democracy when the end result will be something about as repressive as under Saddam. Others just joined fort he money. Its hard not to feel sorry for kis who couldnt get real jobs outside of highschool and joined the military because they didnt have anyhere else to go, but its hard to feel too bad about the deaths og gung ho soliders like those posting above who want to impose America's will on the Iraqi people. The funny part is that the end result of this farce is that the US will lose a lot of real power both by being overextended as well as by making even more people around the world hate the US. Members of the military can fool themselves as much as they want but polls from the Middle East (as well as Europe, Latin America, SE Asia and Africa) show that hatred of the US is at an all time high.

Of the 1451 US troops to have died in Iraq quite a few were soldiers who took their own lives due to the depression of realizing what they had been sucked into. In honor of those brave US soliders to have made the ultimate sacrifice to help free the world from the tyrany of US power here is the MASH theme song:

Through early morning fog I see
visions of the things to be
the pains that are withheld for me
I realize and I can see...

[REFRAIN]:
that suicide is painless
it brings on many changes
and I can take or leave it if I please.

I try to find a way to make
all our little joys relate
without that ever-present hate
but now I know that it's too late, and...

[REFRAIN]

The game of life is hard to play
I'm gonna lose it anyway
The losing card I'll someday lay
so this is all I have to say.

[REFRAIN]

The only way to win is cheat
And lay it down before I'm beat
and to another give my seat
for that's the only painless feat.

[REFRAIN]

The sword of time will pierce our skins
It doesn't hurt when it begins
But as it works its way on in
The pain grows stronger...watch it grin, but...

[REFRAIN]

A brave man once requested me
to answer questions that are key
is it to be or not to be
and I replied 'oh why ask me?'

[REFRAIN]

'Cause suicide is painless
it brings on many changes
and I can take or leave it if I please.

http://dc.indymedia.org/media/all/display/16126/index.php?limit_start=48

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1117041iraq1.html

http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=2444

"Two of the men brought before courts-martial for the Abu Ghraib torture, Ivan Frederick and Graner, were employed as prison guards in civilian life."

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0116-05.htm

All jabs, finger pointing, and name calling aside, it is sometimes refreshing to argue points of view with others. That is one thing that makes America, and everyother country in the world that has a democracy in which the people are free to speak their minds, so wonderful.

What is sad though, is when people, who for no other reason than spite, decide to state that the death of ANYONE, soldiers, insurgents, civilians, is a GOOD thing. Especially coming from people who so vehemenantly argue peace.

One of the posters stated that I do not understand the ins and outs of Islamic culture, he knows me so well!, Even though I lived in Saudi Arabia for over 8 years of my life, even though I work hand in hand with Iraqis on a daily basis, even though, in the 28 years of my life, over 13 have been spent in the Middle East. I do understand their culture, I have studied it, lived in it, and experienced it.

I also notice that the pictures that are posted all have a common thread, focusing on the less than desirable incidents in the past years, although, the picture of the guy with the kids holding the sign is an old one, prior to sep 11th actually.

What you dont see, are the pictures of the people thanking soldiers for helping them out, you dont see the pictures of the guys playing soccer with the kids over here, you dont see the pictures of doctors helping the people wounded by the insurgents.

Is the military perfect? No, its not. Is America perfect? no, its not. There is no such thing as a perfect organization, there are bad apples everywhere. People like to focus on the military because its an easy target, especially in this time.

Also, dont assume that I am blind to the realities of what goes on here, considering I have actually witnessed what goes on here, I am well aware of the shortcomings of the military, more so than anyone that has never served. Yet, I also know, that the things I have done over here have helped people, I also know they appreciate it, because they told me so.

Essentially, what we have here in this little discussion group, are a bunch of people that do not take the time to explore all aspects of a situation. Thats human nature I suppose. Beleive it or not, I dont feel a single bit of anger towards the people that say american soldiers should die, I feel a sadness, a sadess in knowing that in all actuality, I volunteered to join the military, knowing full well that my government could send me to a place where I could possibly get killed. I accept that, and if I dont make it home, at least I can die knowing that what I and thousands of other troops, regular people with families and friends and children, have done over can not be overshadowed by the mistakes and poor judgement of a handful of others.

Someone said that some of the soldiers over here have killed themselves because they realized what they done, or that they had coerced. Thats poppycock, (never thought I would use that in a sentance). Sure people have committed suicide, for the same reasons that people around the world do, they lost a loved one, their girlfriend dumped them, or their wife left them, or they were just plain depressed (which is easy to be over here, its like western texas, only MORE desolate).

Anyway, I am off my soap box, I have enjoyed the posts thus far, even the ones made by obvious idiots. Anyone up for a well thought out discussion that does not involve DIE SOLDIER DIE, feel free to bring it.

Nite.

" I also know they appreciate it, because they told me so."

I'm sure people thanked Saddams police too partly out of fear (and kissing up to thosei n power to get special treatment) but also because those carrying out publics works projects do help peopel even if overall there is opposition to the US occupation. Even if people may have thanked Saddam for building a school that doesnt mean that people didnt hate the Saddam regime. The same goes for the US.

One difference between the rebuilding after Gulf War 1 and now is that after the first war it was carried out by the Iraqi people whereas now much of the money is going abroad to foreign contractors and US troops. The rebuilding after the first war went quicker since those who built the infreastructure were better qualified to fix it. While I'm sure poeple are osmewhat thankful for US troops and foreign contractors rebuilding infrastructure it also adds to the Iraqi resistance since by not hiring s many Iraqis such activity is adding to unemployment...

you make a good point, but your information is flawed. The employment rate over is steadily rising, since our main focus is to hire LOCAL workers to take over the job of rebuilding their country. Instilling in them a sense of pride and ownership, our main function is to provide assistance, material (bought from iraqi supply companies) and training where needed and requested.

As far as qualifications go, I belong to a Seabee battalion, which for those of you that are not in the know, are the construction force of the Navy. The same guys that are providing humanitarian support for the Tsunami. We are very well qualified to do what we are doing.

Also, The people that tank us for our help and assistance do so out of a genuine feeling of thanks, you can see it in their eyes. Not intimidation.

"The employment rate over is steadily rising, since our main focus is to hire LOCAL workers "

That seems hard if not impossible if you are in the US military unless you spend a lot of time and energy searching everyone you work with to make sure they are not just working with you to get around the security barriers so they can attack you. I'm guessing thats a major reason behind the unemployment rate and the fact that infrastructure nationwide still isnt back to where it was before the war (at least according to most of the Iraqi bloggers who seem representative) You may feel more qualified than Iraqis to fix Iraqi equipment but that can only really be the case if the Iraqis who had been in charge of daily repairs of infrastructure are in jail, scared to come back to work or dead. No amount of training can make a foreign military member more qualified to fix an electric power plant, a water treatment plant or other such things that those who know the ins and outs of the equipment (unless of course you bombed it to nothing and are rebuilding it from scratch)

I wouldnt doubt that in the last month things havnt gotten a little better in the country since everyone is waiting to see how things shake out with Sistani, SCIRI, DAWA etc... But sooner or later the faultlines will emerge and there is likely to be either an all out battle between the Shiite majority and the US or a split between the Kurds and the Shiites causing an untold amount of bloodshed and the US getting stuck between the two sides. Sistani and the millions that follow his every word do say they dont want an Islamic state but they want Islamic law to be Iraqi law and the PUK's Talabani has said he cant live with that. Bush may try to pretend that the UIA doesnt want a religious state but Sistani has already called for laws banning public hand holding, the playing of chess etc... There doesnt seem any way out unless the Kurds are allowed their own real state (and even then all the secular and non Shiite Iraqis will be stuck in the Taliban-like hell the US created). BUT, the rest of the country wont accept a seperate Kurdish state due to the huge amount of oil around Kirkuk (and because the US has agreed to Turkey's demand to prevent a Kurdish state from developing). Despite all the current fighting and divisions in Iraq the original conflicts and issues that prevented Bush Sr from invading are still brewing. Will a future Iraq be a strong ally of the mullah's in Iran (Sistani lived in Iran most of his life....)? Will a new Kurdish state carry out attacks on Turkey and demand a good portion of South and Eastern Turkey as part of a greater Kurdistan? Will central Iraq serve as a recruiting ground for the future Bin Laden's and Zarqawis of the world?

Total U.S. Casualties Surpassed 12,000 Last Week, Leading Up to the Elections on 1/30/05.
Due to Hostilities Including the Helicopter Crash, The Fatality Total Last Week, 61, was the Third Highest of the Entire War.
Trends Indicate the "Fallujah Offensive" Phase of the War Has Run its Course
And We Should Expect a "Post Election" Phase, With a Surge of Casualties, to Begin Soon.
http://icasualties.org/oif/

With the euphoria of Iraq's historic elections fading and the latest results showing that voting was largely along sectarian and ethnic lines, Iraqis are awakening to a daunting year of politics ahead.
The biggest hurdle the transitional government will face will be to find a set of goals that all can agree on.
"It is unquestionably true that Iraq has a distance to go in terms of national reconciliation and creating a common vision for the state of Iraq," said a Western diplomat, speaking on the condition of anonymity.
The latest election figures showed the Shi'ite-led United Iraqi Alliance and the Kurdish list dominating the votes.
In southern provinces with Shi'ite majorities, the alliance garnered four to five times as many votes as its nearest competitors. In Kurdish provinces like Dohuk, the Kurdistan Alliance, comprising the two major Kurdish parties, won more than 95 percent of the vote.
Prime Minister Iyad Allawi's Iraqi List coalition, which spent millions of dollars on a slick ad campaign aimed at voters across Iraq's demographic spectrum, lags a distant third nationwide.
Organizers of an unofficial referendum among Iraqi Kurds on Jan. 30 revealed another glaring crack in the edifice of Iraq.
Nearly 99 percent of the 1.9 million Kurds who took part in the electionsl said they preferred an independent Kurdistan over a unified Iraq, said Aso Kareem, a member of the high committee of the Kurdistan Referendum Movement.

http://washingtontimes.com/world/20050209-113150-4099r.htm

Well, there will always be religious schisms in the middle east. The problem that they run into, is that the religious leaders have too much political power. It also does nothelp that the majority of iraqis live in tribal communities.

Only time will tell if the future of Iraq will be stable, but, at least they will the opportunity to give it a go.


Other subject- The Iraqi workers HAVE come back to work, thank you very much, and Like I said, We assist them with supplies, training, etc. Matter of fact, the very people that you assume are afraid to come back to work are working right now. Get your facts straight. The iraqi Bloggers

Secondly, the title of one post "thanks for repairing what you bombed"

The water plant was blown up by insurgents, the people in the plant refused to turn it off.

Dont assume things. Bring your ass over here and see for your self.

First of all, the New York Daily News is a tabloid. It's the only newspaper sourcing this "scandelous" story that took place very far away, not to mention during October 2004. This story was published February of 2006 - a four month difference. With that in mind, don't you think this story could have been stretched a little? And, mud wrestling? Really, people? Is it -that- horrible? Two out of the four soldiers wore sports bras and shorts - more than what people wear to the beach or the pool. All of them, with the exception of one, had been at the camp over six months - Could you imagine? Stuck on in that piece of hell, with only sand to look at for almost a year? People can die of bordom. You can only read books, watch movies, and play beach volleyball for so long before you need to let loose a little. And how about this one: three out of those four soldiers never went near detainees. Nope, never. Oh, the horror in that one! I can definitely smell another Abu Graihb (hint of sarcasism if you didn't pick it up). And, that camp was run extremely well. The detainees had it great! The living conditions improved for them so much after the 160th took control. Did you know that? Bet not. Didn't do your research there, because let's face it, there's only once source of information, and it's coming from a tabloid.

Mud wrestling really isn't bad. It's not. The soldiers weren't naked while doing it. Yes, some made bad decisions. One decided to flash - she asked one of the other female soldiers to do it with her, and that one turned her down and walked away. Soldiers are getting their frustations out on each other - in a playful manner. Better that than on detainees, don't you think? I think so. People must get their frustrations out positively ... if not, there may be another AG. But, that's also why there's Moral Welfare Recreation services.

And in conclusion, everyone who posted a negative comment about this event needs to think twice. Media can mold your minds into what they want you to believe. I work at a summer camp where the kids partake in pudding wrestling, and the counselors do, too. And let me tell ya, I'm so there - Just like I was at Bucca. I'll never regret it. It was the best day of deployment - and I didn't even get into my bra and panties.

One more thing: for the person above who wrote that spring break was about midterm papers, etc., not anything sleezy like mud wrestling - I'm a senior at one of the best colleges in the country who makes exceptional grades ... and I'd get crazy in a pool with mud any day to get my mind off of the books.

I was at the Camp when this happened in 2004 an the photos were taken in two places. The first half of the photos were taken behind the MWR Tent. Just for you information the tent is a mile away from the actual prison itself. The women were not forced to do this they wanted to do this for some stupid reason. Everyone watching the women were just there because they had nothing else to do but sleep and watch bootleged films. After the mudwrestling the other half of the pictures were taken in barrcaks room with a different female. These pictures were grouped together because they were on the same thumb drive. I assumed the second half of the pictures were not suppose to be seen. However, they were seen by everyone on the camp. Every person that was in the pictures were diciplined and they all were counciled by thier chain of command. This was a bunch of people just having stupid fun. Leave it alone and left the real professional deal with the issue. I would have been there but I just got off a 12 hour shift on the gate and was tired. If I would have known about the wrestling I would have been there too.

There is nothing wrong with wrestling or mudd.... so what is the problem.....? Would this have been different if it was a group of military women and men wrestling??? Or is everyone uptight because they are scared for thier female soldiers. This is only an issue because of all the respondants shortcomings. Underwear, water, breasts, ass, and sexuality are all normal things. Don't demonize it because of a war. This has nothing to do with the war. It has to do with fun and obvoiusly fun is not on the top of some peoples list.