Mohammed Atta is Innocent!

duh! and those muslim men and women attaching bombs to themselves, and blowing up childern on buses aren't? hurting the the muslim faith??

Fact: 4 planes hijacked on same day.
Fact: Passengers on several of these planes make cellular telephone calls describing the hijackers.
Fact: All the callers on all the flights identify their hijackers as arabic men.

So Mohammed Atta is innocent? Four aircraft leaving from a couple of different airports at the same time coincidentally have 19 flight school dropouts from the middle east on board?

Since when do cell phones work on airplanes?

Since when did you not know that?

Cellular phones do, in fact work on airplanes. If you have flown in the last five years you would note that aircrews remind passengers to shut off their phones during flight due to the possibility of interference with navigational aides used in directing the aircraft. If the phones didn't function, they wouldn't have to tell the passengers not to use them.

I'm surprised you didn't know that.

I'm also tickled that you must therefore believe that all the phone calls that occurred must be the product of the CIA or NSA - probably working with the Army's psychological operations outfit in Ft. Bragg. Naked conspiricies! Lyndon Larouche was right! He he.

For the same reason one doesn't cast pearls before swine.

so the American public are swine eh?

If I was rude, dishonest or guilty of bad form, my sincere apologies.

I believe that I was just presumptuous.

My presumptions seem to be confirmed by your response, of course.

"My presumptions seem to be confirmed by your response, of course."

1) it wasnt a response but rather a request for clearer clarification. Not much sense in making a post if you can't explain yourself when questioned. How's anyone going to know what you mean?

2) what are your presumptions and how were they confirmed?

Please answer both questions.

no. just you.

oh so you just wanted to limit information regarding the 911 cell phone calls in my case, not the american public, despite the fact you said that "one does not throw pearls before swine" in response to a question about making details of the horrific crime against the people public.
You're just full of shit, buddy!

no. what i'm saying is that nessie is a fucking pig. he is. get over it.

an ad hominem is not a reply. It is simply the most sure sign of an inferior intellect defeated by the arguments set before him.

1. I fail to see where there is a question in the reply above other than wondering why the government hasn’t relayed the exact telecommunications information to the poster. I suggest that even if it had, the poster would then suspect that this information was fraudulent.

2. My presumption was that a person who believes that cellular phones are rendered inoperable by being on an aircraft would probably also be a conspiracy theorist who thought that the government had fabricated the cell phone calls on 11 Sep 01. In the reply to me above nessie states:

“I'm suspicious of the alleged calls that were supposedly made from the sky over rural Pennsylvania.”

At the risk of being redundant: I asserted that the respondent was a paranoid, they objected to the assertion, then proceeded to confirm it.

Furthermore, there were more calls than the flight 73 calls. Barbara Olsen made two calls from the flight that slammed into the Pentagon. A famous call was recorded and played of a distraught woman on the second WTC plane.

dont ask questions if you dont want the answer. swine.

"1. I fail to see where there is a question in the reply above "

now. go back and read again. pay close attention to the closing sentence:
"Why don’t they do this?"

This, for those of you who don't know, is called a *question*.

gee. what answer? You never gave one. You guys can only answer about 10% of any questions posed to you (I suspect this also holds true on any IQ tests you may undertake)

Nessie originally posted:

“I'd like to see a map which plotted which specific cell towers carried the messages. Since records are kept, it would be easy for the government to do this. If they did, it would alleviate many people’s suspicions. Why don’t they do this?”

This is the *question* in question?

The answer I gave is:

“I fail to see where there is a question in the reply above other than wondering why the government hasn’t relayed the exact telecommunications information to the poster. I suggest that even if it had, the poster would then suspect that this information was fraudulent.”

It is important to note the two words 'other' and 'than' above. They modify the nature of the answer significantly. Of course someone who wishes to encourage others to learn how to read would know this.

Question. Answer.

Nessie originally posted:

“I'd like to see a map which plotted which specific cell towers carried the messages. Since records are kept, it would be easy for the government to do this. If they did, it would alleviate many people’s suspicions. Why don’t they do this?”

This is the *question* in question?

The answer I gave is:

For the same reason one doesn't cast pearls before swine.

Which is another way of saying that the government has better things to do than answer questions from stupid fucking idiots, the phrase 'stupid fucking idiots' being a metaphor for anarchists.

Question. Answer.

is the entire American public anarchists? This should be public information. It costs nothing virtually to make it so, it does not reveal any covert operative assets etc etc. It would take all of 10 minutes for some minor bureaucrat to do in this day and age of electronic transfer of information. There is just one reason not to make it public.

an ad hominem is the last resort of a defeated and inferior intellect.

The University of California, Berkeley, is holding a Sept. 11 memorial service, but expressions of patriotism are verboten, the California Patriot reports:

The Sept. 11 Day of Remembrance, sponsored by the Chancellor's office, the student body government and the Graduate Assembly, will also feature student leaders distributing white ribbons, instead of the red, white and blue ones they had originally planned.

"We thought that may be just too political, too patriotic," said Hazel Wong, chief organizer for the Associated Students of the University of California (ASUC). "We didn't want anything too centered on nationalism-anything that is 'Go U.S.A.' "

http://www.calpatriot.org/issueupdate/911.html

Blogger Rory Miller broke the story.

http://angryclam.blogspot.com/2002_09_01_angryclam_archive.html#81162900

Knight Ridder, meanwhile, quotes California's Sen. Dianne Feinstein, who says she's encountered lots of anti-American sentiment on overseas visits: "As an American, I have always been proud," she says. "I have a (U.S. flag) pin. I was embarrassed to wear it."

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/3995179.htm

London's Daily Telegraph visits Berkeley and finds that some people there think aliens committed the Sept. 11 attacks. Now, we know what you're thinking--of _course_ they were aliens; most of them were Saudis. But no. These wackos mean men from Mars. "After Flight 93 came down in Pennsylvania, they saw a craft buzzing around," someone on Telegraph Avenue tells the paper. "Now what was that? All earth air traffic had been grounded. And in the World Trade Centre, where are all the bodies? They were transported out first to be experimented on. Listen to me now, September 11 was all caused by aliens."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/09/05/wloon05.xml

Ad hominem? A debate term. There is no reason for debate. The debate has been over for years. The only thing left to be done is to close ranks.

Memento Mori

nessie never said anything about aliens.
your argument consists of multiple fallacies.

the most obvious is this one:
"Red herring

This fallacy is committed when someone introduces irrelevant material to the issue being discussed, so that everyone's attention is diverted away from the points made, towards a different conclusion."
EXAMPLE:
"You may claim that the death penalty is an ineffective deterrent against crime -- but what about the victims of crime? How do you think surviving family members feel when they see the man who murdered their son kept in prison at their expense? Is it right that they should pay for their son's murderer to be fed and housed?"

another fallacy you commit is to assume that because someone has questions about 911 evidence, and because the alien folks also do, the two are somehow linked. If I follow your logic, then I can say that Nazis believed in wearing suits, and most businessmen wear suits, therefore all businessmen and Nazis are part of the same crowd because they wear suits.

There is no reason not to release this information to the public and you can't provide one other than jumping up and down screaming "some folks think aliens did it!" Very sad, my friend.
first, how would such information fuel the alien theory? they would probably contradict it. second, that's REALLY grasping for straws. How desperate are you going to get here?

the rules are not those for a debate.
they are the rules for what is logical ... and what is NOT.
I don't need to be told you don't give a flying fuck for logic, I already knew that.

................................................

Cell phone calls were made. I dont see how all the people who were just average citizens could or would make up storys about thier family members calling before they died. And there were recorded phone messages I remember that. No to believe otherwise would be too much. Some have questioned but most have accepted it as having happened. Any evidence would have to show that it didnt happen and the evidence needs to come from the nay-sayers.

I didn't write that above post. Not my style Brigg: that's yours.

The debate I spoke about was not regarding these flights. With all this logic you claim to possess you have an awful hard time utilizing it. A logical person would have realised I was not speaking of this debate but of a greater debate that has already been decided.

Someday when you are standing in line with a mark on your forehead holding a number you may remember this.

Memento Mori

tth, what the hell are you talking about? Some kind of damn crackpot ....

Arabic network claims taped 9/11 confessions

September 6, 2002 Posted: 12:26 AM EDT (0426 GMT)

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (CNN) -- The Arabic television news network Al-Jazeera said Thursday it has taped confessions of two al Qaeda members claiming responsibility for the September 11 attacks on behalf of Osama bin Laden's terror group.

Al-Jazeera said the men, both of whom are wanted by the U.S. government, spell out how they planned and executed the attacks. It said it would play their statements next week as part of a documentary it is airing.

"In the second part of this documentary, there will be the first direct confession as to how al Qaeda planned and executed September 11," Al-Jazeera journalist Yosri Fouda said in the first part of the documentary, which began airing Thursday.

One of the al Qaeda members on the tape was said to be Ramzi Binalshibh, a Yemeni national who belonged to the al Qaeda cell in Hamburg, Germany, that played a major role in planning the attacks. Lead hijacker Mohamed Atta was a member of that same cell.

U.S. authorities have said they believe Binalshibh was to be on one of the hijacked planes but could not obtain a U.S. visa to enter the country. Authorities say he eventually made his way to Pakistan and from there entered Afghanistan.

The other terrorist on the Al-Jazeera tape was identified as Khalid Shaikh Mohammad, a Kuwaiti who is on the United States "most wanted" terrorist list. Mohammad is believed to have been one of the primary planners behind the September 11 attacks, authorities have said.

Mohammad is the uncle of Ramzi Yousef, the convicted mastermind behind the 1993 World Trade Center bombing who is now serving time in a U.S. prison.

Mohammad was indicted in 1996 for plotting to bomb U.S. airliners flying from southeast Asia to the United States.

Al-Jazeera said the interviews with the two men were conducted in Karachi, Pakistan. Sources familiar with the interviews told CNN that both men were interviewed this summer.

"Calling me a crackpot is easy. Proving it is not. Where’s your proof? Be specific."

Oh i was talking about that "tth" nutter, not you. Proof? I don't know where to begin. I can't for the life of me comprehend a single thing he says. Its all ... disjointed and strange. Like this:

"a greater debate that has already been decided.
Someday when you are standing in line with a mark on your forehead holding a number you may remember this."

Its really odd stuff, he just won't say throughout the entire thread what the fuck he is talking about, he just keeps saying these crazy fantastic things.

You seem pretty sound, nessie.

While the media spotlight was on the mis-cues at the perennially "troubled" INS, the real news this week was that Rudi Dekkers was telling reporters a significantly different version of his relationship with terrorist ringleader Mohamed Atta than he gave in the wake of the September 11 disaster.

Several key details in Dekker's public account of Mohamed Atta's stay in this country changed, even as, claiming to feel "vindicated," Dekkers tried to use the INS snafu to his public relations advantage.

"When they hit the buildings they were approved to be here," Dekkers insisted, indicating himself to be a man of principle who would never teach people to hit buildings with airplanes until they had been vetted by the proper authorities.

Anyway, that's his story. But it is one he is having an amazing amount of difficulty sticking to.


"Sometimes we all feel the heat"

Dekkers was not the only one trying to get some public relations mileage from the INS debacle. In addition to provoking "outrage" on Capital Hill, the hapless INS's bungling was said to have made even President George W. Bush "pretty hot."

And suddenly it seemed the tide of public opinion was turning against the lowly INS, America's Slacker Guardians of our Porous Borders, and a finger of blame began to be pointed towards an otherwise swell bunch of guys who spend most of their time standing around in the hot sun at border crossings doing their level best to look the other way.

Nobody ever said life was fair.

More importantly, while speaking with reporters after receiving the now-famous letter in which the INS cordially invites two dead terrorists to stay, Dekkers’ cast further doubt on his own credibility by blithely changing his testimony on key points like when Atta started flying lessons, or how much he paid for them.

Perhaps it is only of interest to (Anderson?) accountants, but we have found ourselves fascinated as Dekkers' has so far told three different stories about how many pieces of silver he collected per terrorist.

At first, Atta and Marwan each paid $10,000.

That figure was later quietly revised to $20,000 apiece.

Finally, this week, the Atta-Dekkers "contract" grew once again, to almost $30,000 for each.

Nobody has mentioned it so we will:

This totally negates the stated purpose for the terrorist presence in Venice, which as you'll remember was to save a buck on flight training.

According to aviation training experts we spoke to for half of what Rudi Dekker's was charging you can become a flight trainer yourself.

Moreover, the chief flight instructor at neighboring Jones Aviation in Sarasota, where Atta and Marwan trained for six weeks, insisted in an exclusive interview with the MadCowMorningNews that Dekkers was flat out wrong when he told reporters that Mohamed Atta already had a private pilot's license when he entered the U.S.

That's pretty basic information.

How can so many crucial facts be in dispute?

The question underscores how little has been made public about the subjects of the biggest American criminal investigation since the Kennedy assassination.

"Lone nut cadres always act alone."

In the days immediately after the Sept 11 tragedy Dekkers was quoted in numerous
news accounts saying that Mohamed Atta and Marwan Al-Shehhi began flight training at Huffman Aviation in early July of 2000. Some published reports gave the date of Atta's first lesson at Huffman as July 3rd

After this six month sojourn spent learning to fly in this quiet retirement community located midway between Tampa and Naples on the Gulf Coast of Florida, Atta and his cadre moved on to more advanced training on Florida’s east coast around Miami.

So, at least, goes what remains of the official story of Mohamed Atta, Islamic Fundamentalist.

But even Rudi Dekkers himself--one man who should know for sure--contradicted this generally-accepted chronology of Mohamed Atta’s stay in the U.S.

While fielding questions about his role in the INS flap Dekkers told the Associated Press that "Atta and Al-Shehhi had completed their immigration paperwork on Aug. 29, 2000, just before they began their six-month flight instruction program at the school."

Just before.



"Its my party, and I'll scowl if I want to."

Was Dekkers now saying that Atta and Marwan didn't start flight training until August
30 at the earliest, seven weeks later than he stated in the aftermath of September11th?

And if Mohamed Atta wasn't scowling at his flight instructors and everyone else at the Venice Airport for seven weeks that summer, who had he been scowling at?

And where?

Atta's flight records, obtained by the MadCowMorningNews, clearly show Atta's flying history with Huffman commencing July 6.

So Dekkers has once more been caught lying. And its his story of Mohamed Atta & the Venice Flying Circus which we're meant to believe?

Today Americans can learn more about a story like "Local man attempts to avoid
arrest by forging another man’s name on traffic ticket," than we can about the biggest crime against humanity of the still-young 21st Century.

As for the question of who ultimately is to blame for the tragedy?

Today's best guess seems to be the INS.

Could they be the "global network" we keep waiting to see?

Not unless the swells start hanging out in Laredo, they're not.

What does that leave?


Precision timing when you least expect it

In an operation nearly the equal in pin-point accuracy of Atta's own swan dive into the World Trade Center Towers the INS letter was mailed on March 6 and scored a bulls-eye five days later, arriving in Dekkers’ inbox on precisely the six month anniversary of the disaster.

Consider: at some point fairly recently, the INS letters, containing the names of the most heinous villains in living memory, had been stuck into an envelope, and sent out...

Even the New York Times raised an eyebrow. "The error seemed particularly difficult to explain, because Mr. Atta and Mr. Shehhi were among the most infamous of the 19 hijackers," said the Times.

"We don’t understand why this came in today, and why this was not done a year go," said Dekkers.

The answer to the question of why two INS letters inviting dead terrorists to stay showed up in Rudi Dekkers mailbox on precisely the six month anniversary of September 11 is, sadly:

"We may never know."

It was a triumphant performance for Dekkers, who was widely portrayed as feeling "vindicated."

"I could not show that we applied for the right paperwork. Therefore I am happy that I can do that now."

"So you feel vindicated?"

"Yes."

Not widely disclosed even today is the fact that that not two, but three of the four planes commandeered by the terrorists were piloted by people who "just happened" to have learned to fly at the tiny off-the-beaten-path Venice Airport.

Left out of most news accounts is the fact Siad Al-Jarrah learned to fly next door to Dekker’s operation at a second flight school, that of Arne "one damn Dutch boy too many" Kruithof, also like Dekker's a native of the Netherlands.

In fact, a veritable squadron of terrorist pilots trained in Venice, including several "America's Most Wanted" Hamburg cadre guys still eluding capture.

Also eluding capture, though we have no evidence they have been to Venice Florida, are , of course, Osama Bin Laden and Mullah Omar.

Mullah Omar! Now there's a real blast from the past!

He's been heard from about as much as a one-hit television actor who makes a really bad career move.

Mullah Omar is the Philip Michael Johnson of international terrorism.

Mullah Omar has been disappeared.

Sinking into deserved obscurity does not, however, seem to be what fate has in store for Rudi Dekkers. He and his Venice flight school students—Atta and Marwan—have received so much attention since 9/11 that Rudi thinks we should begin to think about "Movin’ On."

"I don’t expect when I get in on Monday morning to get two permits for Atta and Al- Shehhi," Dekkers said. "I thought they were behind me already and my life goes on."

"Not so fast, bub, is what we want to tell him."

There is another story still to surface, a so far secret story, a story which began


unraveling this week and is not about inept federal agencies like the INS...

There is another Agency of the Government of the United States whose good offices, apparently, resulted in Mohamed Atta and his terrorist cadre finding themselves in Venice, Florida during the summer of the year 2000.

Usually reliable sources have confirmed to the MadCowMorningNews that this agency is not the INS.

Dekkers, who said he faced scrutiny in the media after the attacks for admitting the students, said the INS forms showed he had followed the law.

"The forms, filled out by an assistant at Huffman, indicated that both men met the English language requirements to study at the school," stated the AP story. "Atta listed his nationality as Egyptian, while Al-Shehhi said he was from United Arab Emirates."

The AP story said, "On the form, filled out by a Huffman assistant, Atta's name is spelled "Mohomed."

What the AP failed to note is that the mis-spelling might have owed something to the fact that the 18-year old Huffman Aviation assistant who filled them out, Nicole Antini, was just then also being sexually harassed by Rudi Dekkers, her beefy middle-aged boss, according to a lawsuit for sexual harassment which Dekker’s was forced to settle recently for an undisclosed sum.

The AP also let slip that the documents filled out indicated the terrorists academic term at Huffman was for up to 12 months, and would cost $27,300.

What no one has noted till now is that this is the third mutually-contradictory account Dekkers has given so far on the simple question of how much the two paid for their flight lessons.

As we begin to follow the money we recall some cop wisdom we once heard from a grizzled detective, about how to take down a criminal when all else fails...

"Al Capone murdered over 500 people," this investigator told us. "You know what he went to prison for? Tax evasion."

What the fuck are you talking about, brigg?

If you can't understand logic I suggest you get back to whatever it is you normally do.

What the fuck are you talking about, brigg?

If you can't understand logic I suggest you get back to whatever it is you normally do.


Apply all the labels you like. Just makes it look like it's the only way you can understand anything going on around you.

"Keep talking. You do more damage to yourself than I ever could."
Can't you do better than quoting me?

sure, whatever, buddy. You do that. Have fun now.

right on Nessie! I'll bet he keeps coming back for some more though, the poor bastard.

Point One: Content matters. Demonstrate a single instance where I lied. You freely admit that you posted under the name of ‘just wondering’ above, where you implied that cell phones don’t function on airplanes. You then accuse me of lying and putting words in your mouth when I call you on it. Now, if you say something, then deny saying it, what does that make you? Hint: It rhymes with ‘fire’.

Point Two: “That depends on how well they proved the documentation was in fact what it was purported to be. I would want to see the Chain of Custody, for example, as well as sworn affidavits by every custodian, and sufficient background on each to justify believing the affidavits.”

Excrement. It could come to you from the mouth of God, and you’d still deny it.

Point Three: “ I can, and have, proven my contentions. You have not proven yours. Ergo, I’m correct and you’re full of crap. It is not an ad hominem, nor is it hypocrisy, to call a liar a liar, an idiot an idiot, or accuse the demonstrably ignorant of having failed to do their homework.”

What contention, exactly, have you proven? All I have seen is childish attack after childish attack, and vague references to conspiracies. Full of crap? Yet another childish attack. Demonstrably ignorant? I’m beginning to tire of this.

I await your well-reasoned and civil reply.

Your logic is poor. Your distruction will come quickly.

The debate has been over for years. The rightwing has overwhelmed the leftwing. We are extremely powerful, ruthless and armed to the teeth. It is only a matter of time before we kill you. We outnumber you greatly. We have agents in place. You currently trust these people with your lives. We know your routines and your gathering places. We understand exactly how to dismantle you. Those whom you regard as your comrades will point you out to save their own skin. When we have used them, they will also die.

Memento Mori - Remember that you must die.

think you been freebasing a bit too long there pal
delusions of grandeur again? how pathetic
what makes you think that just because you agree with the fascists in power that they care or want your miserable pathetic snivelling little self? You're probably one of the first they would like to round up, to prevent embarrassment.
If you want to play Nazi make-believe I suggest you get a job as an extra in a film about WW2 or rent some costumes or something.
Get well soon!

I fail to see where you "called him on it" in fact it looks to me like it's the other way round. He said cellphones need not be able to communicate with a tower in order to disrupt a plane's electronics, something you can't seem to answer. Either you missed that, or you are lying.

Of course Atta did it! Don't forget that they found his intact passport amidst the rubble of the World Trade Center, proving beyond a shadow of a doubt, that he was on the plane.

you mean the passport that mysteriously and very conveniently was found sitting out in the open on top of all the rubble? The one that somehow managed to avoid the destruction of the plane that even annihilated the "indestructible" black box? The one that survived the flaming collapse of an enormous skyscraper while trapped in the burning cockpit which was surely a pile of molten slag? the one that, instead of blowing away a few blocks happened to land smack dab directly on top of all the rubble?

Nessie said that cell phones don't work on planes.
Nessie said that Nessie didn't say that cell phones don't work on planes.
Dougie called him on it.

And what in the name of Enrico Fermi does Nessie’s claim that:

‘As for the cell phones, they need not be able to contact a cell tower in order to disrupt a plane's electronics. They just have to be turned on. Being turned on is quite a different thing from being able to convey messages.’

Have to do with anything that we are discussing? Cell phones work on planes. What do I need to reply to in the statement above? What is there to reply to?

"Cell phones work on planes."

can you give me a link where I can verify this?

>Nessie said that cell phones don't work on planes.


No I didn't. I asked a question.

and i can tell you it worked fine.

"Cell phones work on planes."

can you give me a *link* where I can verify this?

http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,41177,00.html

The above is a link to an article in Wired.

it doesn't actually say cellphones will work on a plane. All it says is people turn them on get mad when they can't and may cause interference with planes. It also says you are permitted to use them on your own private plane but fails to mention whether they will work or not. On the subject of functionality the article has only one comment:

"The cell-phone industry says it has no way of lifting its own ban because it is physically impossible to construct cell- phone towers to accommodate signals traveling 600 miles per hour at 33,000 feet in the air."

all of this doesn't really give me a clear answer to my question.

"can you give me a link where I can verify this?

I'm not certain, but it seems likely that personal cell
phones would work on a plane, if and while a plane
was within range of a cell tower.

Also, following is an excerpt w/link that mentions the
phones that are provided for passengers to use on
many commercial aircraft (and briefly describes how
they function):

"Though the American Airlines Boeing 757 is fitted
with individual telephones at each seat position, they
are not of the variety where you can simply pick up the
handset and ask for an operator. On many aircraft you
can talk from one seat to another in the aircraft free of
charge, but if you wish to access the outside world you
must first swipe your credit card through the telephone"

http://www.attackonamerica.net/motherofallliesabout911.htm

Two more wired articles for you.

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,41276,00.html
http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,41277,00.html


Some of it is redundant, sorry.

Again the only thing that either of those articles mentions about functionality is this:

"Officials in the cell phone industry say it is impossible to reconfigure current cell towers so passengers are able to use their phones from the air. It would require "30,000-foot cell towers" or "slowing down of the planes," said Cellular Telecommunications and Internet Association spokesman Travis Larson."

so far your links really aren't backing you up very well.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/tech/Geek/geek990823.html
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/tech/Geek/geek990809.html

OK that sort of implies in a roundabout way that you might be able to use your cellphone on a plane ... but its still doesn't directly deal with it, and now, after these other links, I'm wondering what were the cell phone companies talking about when they said they would need 30 000 foot high cell towers to do it?

http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/travel/Crabby/crabby1012.html

How about this one from 1999?

The Wall Street Journal Online
October 4, 1999, 5:00 PM PT

As anyone who has flown has heard, using a cellular telephone aboard an airplane is dangerous.

American Airlines warns passengers that cell phones "may interfere with the aircraft's communication and navigation systems." Similar warnings come from Delta, United and Continental. British Airways links cellular interference to potential problems with compasses and even cabin pressure.

What the airlines don't tell passengers is that there is no scientific evidence to support these claims. What concerns there are about cellular phones in airplanes dwell in the realm of anecdote and theory -- and to some extent in that of plain finance. There is money to be earned or lost by cell-phone companies and airlines if cell phones are used in-flight.

Click Here!

Battery of tests
A 1996 study commissioned by the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration looked at thousands of flight records and failed to find a single instance in which equipment was affected by a wireless phone. The study was conducted by RTCA Inc., a nonprofit organization that sets industry standards for airplane electronics.

Plane makers Boeing Co. and Airbus Industrie have bombarded their aircraft with cell-phone frequencies and discovered no interference with communication, navigation or other systems. One likely reason that no problems were found: cellular phones don't operate on any of the frequencies used by airplane systems.

"The airlines are misleading the traveling public," says John Sheehan, who headed the RTCA study and says he has often used his own cell phone in the sky. "There is no real connection between cell-phone frequencies and the frequencies of the navigation" or communications systems.

Using cell phones aloft on commercial and private aircraft is banned not by the FAA but by the Federal Communications Commission, which regulates telephone use. In prohibiting airborne use in 1991, the FCC was mainly concerned about cell phones' potential to interfere with ground-to-ground cellular transmission.

The FAA has never outlawed cell-phone use in airplanes. But the agency supports the FCC ban "for reasons of potential interference," according to an FAA advisory. Despite the findings of the 1996 RTCA study, the FAA remains concerned about anecdotal evidence of cell-phone interference in flight records, says an FAA spokeswoman.

The FAA isn't the only party still concerned. Boeing continues to advise airlines against cell-phone use in the sky. That's because the electrical charge from the batteries in most handsets exceeds the plane maker's standards. Although Boeing's tests have never shown this to be a problem, in theory the electricity emanating from the device could create interference with airplane systems.

Economic incentive
The airlines and telecommunications companies also have an economic incentive to keep cell phones turned off in the air. The carriers receive a cut of the revenues from the telephones installed onboard. The two main providers of this air-phone service, GTE Corp. and AT&T Corp., charge about $6 for a one-minute call, more than 20 times typical cell-phone rates.

These in-flight telephones also operate on cellular technology -- using a single airplane antenna to which the onboard phones are typically wired. AT&T and GTE, which recently agreed to sell its Airfone service, decline to discuss air-phone financial arrangements, as do several airlines. But Sheehan says airlines pocket about 15 percent of all air-phone revenue generated on their planes. GTE declines to discuss Airfone revenues, but analysts estimate the unit's annual revenues at $150 million.

Some airlines also restrict cell-phone use on the ground, which isn't covered by the FCC ban, and which the FAA leaves to the airlines' discretion. Sheehan says he believes air carriers have resisted allowing cell-phone use on the ground because it "detracts from the revenue they get from the air phone."

Airlines deny this, and say the bans are for the benefit of the passengers. "We don't believe it's a good safety issue" to allow normal cell phones, says Andy Plews, spokesman for UAL Corp.'s United Airlines. "We'd like people to use the air phones."

>you mean the passport that mysteriously and very conveniently was found
>sitting out in the open on top of all the rubble? The one that somehow
>managed to avoid the destruction of the plane that even annihilated
>the "indestructible" black box? The one that survived the flaming collapse
>of an enormous skyscraper while trapped in the burning cockpit which was
>surely a pile of molten slag? the one that, instead of blowing away a
>few blocks happened to land smack dab directly on top of all the rubble?


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I don't think it's ublevable at all that Atta's passport was found at Ground Zero.

It was miraculous when Jesus healed the lepers and when he brought Lazarus back to life wasn't it? And the water into wine? And walking on the water?


The luck in finding the passport is a very small thing compared to the many amazing things and wonderus events that have happened in history. But that doesn't make it unimportant. The Lord works in mysterious ways, and the Lord wanted the investigators to find Atta's passport as more proof for President Bush that he needs to get the evildoers and punish them.

"the Lord wanted the investigators to find Atta's passport "

Are you fucking *serious* ?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????!!!!!!!!???????!!!!!!?????

"the Lord wanted the investigators to find Atta's passport "

Is that the best you can do?
Pathetic
No wonder the public is starting to think conservatives are turning into a bunch of raving lunatics

"the Lord wanted the investigators to find Atta's passport "

Is that the best you can do?
Pathetic
No wonder the public is starting to think conservatives are turning into a bunch of raving lunatics!

"the Lord wanted the investigators to find Atta's passport "

Is that the best you can do?
Pathetic
No wonder the public is starting to think conservatives are turning into a bunch of raving lunatics!

Youre alive right now only because I dont want you dead yet.

i don't see the point because if someone were to produce the cell phone records someone who doesn't want to believe anything anyway would just say the government altered the cell phone records. this would just go on and on.

the authenticity of records can be easily verified by journalists.
In any case that is a VERY POOR excuse for not making them public. very very very weak indeed.

stealing people's identities again eh Assclown?
Very weak.

Ooooooh. We're SO scared.

Fred Hampton felt the same way.

What are you trying to say here, that the government is not answerable to the people?

an inspiration to radical youth of every race and nation for countless generations.

How many people will remember tth when he's gone?

All taliban should be killed.

<a href=http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&Acronym=KMFDM"><a href=http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&Acronym=KMFDM">"Fully 59%???"

---

"A TIME/CNN poll finds that more than one-third of Americans say they are paying more attention now to how the news might relate to the end of the world, and have talked about what the Bible has to say on the subject. Fully 59% say they believe the events in Revelation are going to come true, and nearly one-quarter think the Bible predicted the Sept. 11 attack."

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,265345-2,00.html

---

ugh

"Fully 59%???"

---

"A TIME/CNN poll finds that more than one-third of Americans say they are paying more attention now to how the news might relate to the end of the world, and have talked about what the Bible has to say on the subject. Fully 59% say they believe the events in Revelation are going to come true, and nearly one-quarter think the Bible predicted the Sept. 11 attack."

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,265345-2,00.html

---

ugh

for some reason, after selecting add file to upload, the software "doubled" the a href tag (and i didn't notice when i hit submit the first time, but it was "seizing" [taking an unusually long time to complete) so i stopped the process, and corrected, but it see uploaded anyway).

--
Also, suggestion for future version of this software would be a preview option, and that way html errors (fr that those that use it) could be caught in advance if they are overlooked when "proof reading" code prior to sending.

The concept of sainthood or the reward in the afterlife for deeds done in the present life is not new nor is it isolated to the Christian religions of the world. It is well documented that even the Muslim faith has this goal at its heart. What in the world makes anyone think that the jihad called for by certain Muslim fundementalists excludes seeming insane acts against the great deciever or Satan. Why is it so hard for people to ascribe to individuals they support the same qualities they insist belong to the human beings that they vilify. Some people who invoke rational thinking tend to ignore it when it involves those they want to imagine are not capable of violent deeds or horrendous crimes against humanity.
We tend to think of others as criminals and our own as heroes. By the way do you suppose those people over Pennsylvainia knew whom they were dealing with or were they decieved by the worldwide Zionist plot also?

look, i spent ages doing an essay on Mohammed Atta

I spent ages and ages trying to prove that the man was either innocent or completly brainwashed in 98, and unfortunatly the man was crazy, he had been an al qaeda sleeper since 92 and was called up in 98 for training

To the post in the earlier ones, the hijackers were not flying school drop outs, they had all past, because their certificates had arrived in mid 2002

cheers guys