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Indybay Feature
Truth: Exposing Israeli Apartheid
You won't see this on our corporate US mainstream media. And it's not because it's not true.
Benefit Screening of "Truth: Exposing Israeli Apartheid" by local film-maker Wendy W. Campbell
on Thurs. May 15 at 7:30 pm. Long-time activist against racism Dave Kersting will open the evening with a talk on "What is Zionism?"
At La Pena Cultural Center at 3105 Shattuck Ave. in Berkeley.
$20 suggested donation ($10 for students, seniors)
Sponsored by Americans for Justice in Palestine-Israel. Proceeds to benefit upcoming new documentary and other media projects.
Endorsed by Citizens for Fair Legislation http://www.cflweb.org
More info on film at http://www.exposingisraeliapartheid.com
on Thurs. May 15 at 7:30 pm. Long-time activist against racism Dave Kersting will open the evening with a talk on "What is Zionism?"
At La Pena Cultural Center at 3105 Shattuck Ave. in Berkeley.
$20 suggested donation ($10 for students, seniors)
Sponsored by Americans for Justice in Palestine-Israel. Proceeds to benefit upcoming new documentary and other media projects.
Endorsed by Citizens for Fair Legislation http://www.cflweb.org
More info on film at http://www.exposingisraeliapartheid.com
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I would assume this is another attempt to some how make Israel look bad?
What happened in South AFrica and what is happening in Israel could not be farther apart and to try and equate the two is foolish.
In south africa black swere keep down and subjegated because of race .
Israel is not trying to keep any one down. Palestinians, arabs are afforded citizenship just like any one else. vote just like any one else and if they obey the laws treated just like any one else.
Israel has responed to threats, terrorism and the killing of its citizens in the least intrusive way it can.
to try and some how say that the miserable living conditions and poverty of these people is somehow Isarel's fault if false.
97% of the West Bank is under direct PA control, those people are having their money stolen from them by Arafat, they are being intimidated worse by him and his thugs than the Israelis ever thought of doing.
For nineteen years the west bank was annexed by jordan and during that time those people were no better off, they were not offered a state by their arab brothers nor were their conditions made better in any way.
Israel has built hospitals, schools , universities , and child care clinics for them.
Iiteracy is up, infant mortality is down.
The very reason these people are suffering is a dircet result of the terrorists in their midst , that they will not out. place the blame were it belongs.
If this was happening in the U.S. there would be more than roadblocks. house checks and incursion, most of those people would be in jail.
Looking at what the U.S. just did in Iraq should give an idea of what israel could do if they wanted to .
Once the terrorism is rennounced, then things can move on.
And these people have been offered peace 8 times and turned it down. Barak wanted to give them 97% of the West Bank, and part of East Jerusalem. Not good enough.
The comments last week of the Syrian Prime Minister prove why, as he stated "no matter what Israel does it will never be enough. She does not belong here and we don't want the country here."
And the topic" What is Zionism "is just an other attempt to show Anti-semetism by equating it with racism.
Perhaps the author should travel to Saudi Arabia were Jews are not even allowed in the country Or to buy land in Palestinian controlled lands or Jordan were it is the death penalty to sell to jews? Then maybe he could talk about racism? .
What happened in South AFrica and what is happening in Israel could not be farther apart and to try and equate the two is foolish.
In south africa black swere keep down and subjegated because of race .
Israel is not trying to keep any one down. Palestinians, arabs are afforded citizenship just like any one else. vote just like any one else and if they obey the laws treated just like any one else.
Israel has responed to threats, terrorism and the killing of its citizens in the least intrusive way it can.
to try and some how say that the miserable living conditions and poverty of these people is somehow Isarel's fault if false.
97% of the West Bank is under direct PA control, those people are having their money stolen from them by Arafat, they are being intimidated worse by him and his thugs than the Israelis ever thought of doing.
For nineteen years the west bank was annexed by jordan and during that time those people were no better off, they were not offered a state by their arab brothers nor were their conditions made better in any way.
Israel has built hospitals, schools , universities , and child care clinics for them.
Iiteracy is up, infant mortality is down.
The very reason these people are suffering is a dircet result of the terrorists in their midst , that they will not out. place the blame were it belongs.
If this was happening in the U.S. there would be more than roadblocks. house checks and incursion, most of those people would be in jail.
Looking at what the U.S. just did in Iraq should give an idea of what israel could do if they wanted to .
Once the terrorism is rennounced, then things can move on.
And these people have been offered peace 8 times and turned it down. Barak wanted to give them 97% of the West Bank, and part of East Jerusalem. Not good enough.
The comments last week of the Syrian Prime Minister prove why, as he stated "no matter what Israel does it will never be enough. She does not belong here and we don't want the country here."
And the topic" What is Zionism "is just an other attempt to show Anti-semetism by equating it with racism.
Perhaps the author should travel to Saudi Arabia were Jews are not even allowed in the country Or to buy land in Palestinian controlled lands or Jordan were it is the death penalty to sell to jews? Then maybe he could talk about racism? .
For many years palestinians have been subjected to any cruelty imaginable. Their land was stolen, their houses bulldozed, corfew in their own land, and sistemitic killing of children, women and old people. Surely these killings are been justified as mistakes; to launch a missiles in the public area is not a mistake but a crime against humanity.
In the land of Palestine atrocities against palestinians are in there to be seen, every day you see or read news about the killing of children and women.
But if a suicide bomber hit a bus or restaurant or whatever we found all zionists and zionist friends to call barbarian and criminal act of terrorism. What kind of bigoted logic, if you kill a palestiniansis not a crime but if you kill a jew is?????????????????
Hang Sharon and his henchmen soon!
In the land of Palestine atrocities against palestinians are in there to be seen, every day you see or read news about the killing of children and women.
But if a suicide bomber hit a bus or restaurant or whatever we found all zionists and zionist friends to call barbarian and criminal act of terrorism. What kind of bigoted logic, if you kill a palestiniansis not a crime but if you kill a jew is?????????????????
Hang Sharon and his henchmen soon!
Why is the Arab world not helping out the Palestinian people??? Monetarily I mean. Did you know that if the Saudi government took ONE DAY'S worth of profit from oil sales and gave that money to the palestinians, it would be enough to buy each Palestinian (all 3.5 million of them) a BAR OF GOLD. But, the Arab world would much rather keep the Palestinians in the Refugee camps, miserable, hungry, and poor. And blame Israel for everything!
Surely you jest!
No one has to ATTEMPT to make Israel look bad. They do an excellent job of it on their own.
No one has to ATTEMPT to make Israel look bad. They do an excellent job of it on their own.
Only answer is a Palestinian State that the Israeli Military can not cross into....
Problem:
Israel: We have to confiscate Palestinian land and demolish Palestinian homes because there are suicide bombers???
Palestine: We have to defend ourselves because Israel is slowly confiscating all our land and demolishing our homes, We have no military to defend ourselves and our land. If we do nothing, we will soon have nothing at all???
End the conflict by ending the cause of the conflict.
Possible Solution where both side might win:
CLICK HERE > http://nyc.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=56156&group=webcast
Problem:
Israel: We have to confiscate Palestinian land and demolish Palestinian homes because there are suicide bombers???
Palestine: We have to defend ourselves because Israel is slowly confiscating all our land and demolishing our homes, We have no military to defend ourselves and our land. If we do nothing, we will soon have nothing at all???
End the conflict by ending the cause of the conflict.
Possible Solution where both side might win:
CLICK HERE > http://nyc.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=56156&group=webcast
Yes, the solution is a Palestinian state. But NOT one run by arafat, friends or associates of arafat, other terrorists, hamas, islamic jihad, etc.
A palestinian state with terrorists or islamic extremists running it would eventually just grow strong and try to wipe Israel out, causing a massive war.
A palestinian state run by sane, moderate palestinians who aren't islamic extremists and are responsible would become a decent state that would not make war on israel, and lead to a bright future.
It makes no sense to give arafat, or anyone like him, control of land or a state. But arafat has led the palestinians for 35 years now. That's the problem.
A palestinian state with terrorists or islamic extremists running it would eventually just grow strong and try to wipe Israel out, causing a massive war.
A palestinian state run by sane, moderate palestinians who aren't islamic extremists and are responsible would become a decent state that would not make war on israel, and lead to a bright future.
It makes no sense to give arafat, or anyone like him, control of land or a state. But arafat has led the palestinians for 35 years now. That's the problem.
If there was a Palestinian State...
The Israeli superior Military could be used to guard the borders instead of demolishing Palestinian Peoples homes...
If the Palestinian, after achieving their state continued fighting , Israel would have a right to fight back and the U.S. would be able to help them, and the Arab community would no longer be able to say that the Palestinians are only fighting for their freedom, which is the case now...
The Israeli superior Military could be used to guard the borders instead of demolishing Palestinian Peoples homes...
If the Palestinian, after achieving their state continued fighting , Israel would have a right to fight back and the U.S. would be able to help them, and the Arab community would no longer be able to say that the Palestinians are only fighting for their freedom, which is the case now...
No such thing in government and politics. They want someone they can control. Period. And that isn't an independent nation, the same way Unocal man Karzai in Afghanistan isn't a legitimate leader and has attacks on his life every few months. The same way the cleric the CIA was paying off in Iraq was stabbed to death by a mob with money flying out of his robes.
Stop trying to candy coat it.
Stop trying to candy coat it.
Okay, we know that the Palestinians have no reason to trust Ariel Sharon any more than Israelis trust Arafat. Sharon has being doing what he does best - slaughter Palestinian civilians - from 1954 to present.
We know that Sharon and the Likud party, together with religious fractions of the Israeli government, have no wish for peace whatsoever. We know that Hamas (founded by Israel) has no desire for peace. Thus, whenever it looks as if peace may become a reality, the Israeli army kills a few Palestians, Hamas (or one of the other extremists groups) kills a few Israelis, and the accusations blast forth again.
We know that under the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949 that the Palestinians are "a protected people", and, yes, we can gasp here at the amount of "protection" they have been provided.
We know that violations of this Convention, such as settlements and dispossession, are "war crimes", and, again, we can ask why these war crimes have not been dealt with and why they have been allowed to continue for decades.
We also know that the creation of "new facts on the ground", in blatant violation of Article 31(7) of the Oslo Agreement has continued unabated since 1993.
We know that this ethnic cleansing of Palestinians has been allowed to continue because the US doesn't object; in fact, it provides huge amounts of economic and military aid, and it vetoes every resolution the UN makes against Israel.
BUT:
WHAT IF the US emphatically condemned Israel for its atrocities against Palestinian civilians just as it does Palestinians, and refused further aid until the said atrocities ceased?
WHAT IF all settlements were dismantled the moment they appeared?
WHAT IF internatioinal peacekeeprs were present to ensure that Palestinian civilians were protected?
WHAT IF Israel said we are going to withdraw to our 1967 borders, take our settlements with us, and we're going to give you back your lands, re-route your water we've taken from you, replace your olive grooves, and rebuild the houses we've blown up?
WHAT IF Palestine said thank you. We accept that, and we will do our utmost to control the extreme element in our society, and we will ask the international community for help in rebuilding our country, and ask God to help us rebuild our shattered lives?
WHAT IF both sides said let's stop the propaganda, the hate, the lies?
WHAT IF both sides said we are both to blame, we're sorry, and let's start over with an open heart?
WHAT IF -- two sad lonely words.
But one can dream.
We know that Sharon and the Likud party, together with religious fractions of the Israeli government, have no wish for peace whatsoever. We know that Hamas (founded by Israel) has no desire for peace. Thus, whenever it looks as if peace may become a reality, the Israeli army kills a few Palestians, Hamas (or one of the other extremists groups) kills a few Israelis, and the accusations blast forth again.
We know that under the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949 that the Palestinians are "a protected people", and, yes, we can gasp here at the amount of "protection" they have been provided.
We know that violations of this Convention, such as settlements and dispossession, are "war crimes", and, again, we can ask why these war crimes have not been dealt with and why they have been allowed to continue for decades.
We also know that the creation of "new facts on the ground", in blatant violation of Article 31(7) of the Oslo Agreement has continued unabated since 1993.
We know that this ethnic cleansing of Palestinians has been allowed to continue because the US doesn't object; in fact, it provides huge amounts of economic and military aid, and it vetoes every resolution the UN makes against Israel.
BUT:
WHAT IF the US emphatically condemned Israel for its atrocities against Palestinian civilians just as it does Palestinians, and refused further aid until the said atrocities ceased?
WHAT IF all settlements were dismantled the moment they appeared?
WHAT IF internatioinal peacekeeprs were present to ensure that Palestinian civilians were protected?
WHAT IF Israel said we are going to withdraw to our 1967 borders, take our settlements with us, and we're going to give you back your lands, re-route your water we've taken from you, replace your olive grooves, and rebuild the houses we've blown up?
WHAT IF Palestine said thank you. We accept that, and we will do our utmost to control the extreme element in our society, and we will ask the international community for help in rebuilding our country, and ask God to help us rebuild our shattered lives?
WHAT IF both sides said let's stop the propaganda, the hate, the lies?
WHAT IF both sides said we are both to blame, we're sorry, and let's start over with an open heart?
WHAT IF -- two sad lonely words.
But one can dream.
You forgot one thing:
What if Palestinians would stop blowing people up?
What if Palestinians would stop blowing people up?
Apparently you have difficulty reading, sir or madam.
What is it with you and your ilk? Where are you living? Are you brainwashed? You never give up the whining. You never ever stop with the "poor us" routine.
You would like the world to believe that the Palestinians are the only villian in this piece. Ye'ah, well, the civilized world knows better despite Israel trying to prevent us from knowing of its atrocities by killing peace activists, killing journalists doing documentaries, keeping out international peacekeepers.
If there is a difference, sir or madam, between an army killing unarmed civilians and a suicide bomber killing unarmed civilians, perhaps you can tell us what it is. I have asked this question on a continual basis, but I have not gotten an answer. Perhaps I'm asking the wrong people.
Murder is murder is murder, but apparently you don't see that. No, it's much easier to sit around here waiting for myself or someone else who believes in fair play to comment and then you jump. And you wonder why there can be no peace? If everyone is like you, there never will be when you're attacking me and others on this board, and we are not even part of the bleeding process.
It's always about poor Israel.
However, until the international community starts treating Israel as it would any other nation, which it should be doing anyway, the lies and propaganda, the "we are the victim" routine will continue to flourish.
Yesterday the Palestinians stated they agreed to the Road Map; Israel said it didn't, and would discuss same with Bush (that should be fun!). Then, lo, a suicide bomber, and Sharon stays home. One couldn't ask for anything better if you're Sharon, could one? I often wonder if the Likud party and Hamas are not part of the same conspiracy to prevent peace.
The US government, as per the norm, condemned the action and demanded Palestine stop this behaviour. However, when the Israeli army kills (which they do almost daily) unarmed civilians, the US is suspiciously silent, or if it does comment, its response is so lukewarm as to be embarrassing.
I don't know who you think you're fooling, sir or madam, but it's certainly not me.
What is it with you and your ilk? Where are you living? Are you brainwashed? You never give up the whining. You never ever stop with the "poor us" routine.
You would like the world to believe that the Palestinians are the only villian in this piece. Ye'ah, well, the civilized world knows better despite Israel trying to prevent us from knowing of its atrocities by killing peace activists, killing journalists doing documentaries, keeping out international peacekeepers.
If there is a difference, sir or madam, between an army killing unarmed civilians and a suicide bomber killing unarmed civilians, perhaps you can tell us what it is. I have asked this question on a continual basis, but I have not gotten an answer. Perhaps I'm asking the wrong people.
Murder is murder is murder, but apparently you don't see that. No, it's much easier to sit around here waiting for myself or someone else who believes in fair play to comment and then you jump. And you wonder why there can be no peace? If everyone is like you, there never will be when you're attacking me and others on this board, and we are not even part of the bleeding process.
It's always about poor Israel.
However, until the international community starts treating Israel as it would any other nation, which it should be doing anyway, the lies and propaganda, the "we are the victim" routine will continue to flourish.
Yesterday the Palestinians stated they agreed to the Road Map; Israel said it didn't, and would discuss same with Bush (that should be fun!). Then, lo, a suicide bomber, and Sharon stays home. One couldn't ask for anything better if you're Sharon, could one? I often wonder if the Likud party and Hamas are not part of the same conspiracy to prevent peace.
The US government, as per the norm, condemned the action and demanded Palestine stop this behaviour. However, when the Israeli army kills (which they do almost daily) unarmed civilians, the US is suspiciously silent, or if it does comment, its response is so lukewarm as to be embarrassing.
I don't know who you think you're fooling, sir or madam, but it's certainly not me.
I'm sorry I was upset just then, but when I read your note, I couldn't believe it.
II thought I had mentioned the suicide bombings because I certainly intended to; however, when I went back and read my spiel, I hadn't. It certainly wasn't intentional.
Believing that it was mentioned, i couldn't understand why you would bring up the point again, hence my angry response. I guess I don't have red hair for nothing. But:
WHAT IF there were no suicide bombings?
Two sad and lonely words, but we can dream.
II thought I had mentioned the suicide bombings because I certainly intended to; however, when I went back and read my spiel, I hadn't. It certainly wasn't intentional.
Believing that it was mentioned, i couldn't understand why you would bring up the point again, hence my angry response. I guess I don't have red hair for nothing. But:
WHAT IF there were no suicide bombings?
Two sad and lonely words, but we can dream.
To whoever:
I have revised my earlier post to read the way it was intended to read.. Perhaps the editors can delete that, and if there is to be debate, we can use this one instead, or not, whatever.
--------------------------------------------------
"Okay, we know that the Palestinians have no reason to trust Ariel Sharon any more than the Israelis trust Arafat. Sharon has been doing what he does best - slaughter Palestinian civilians - from 1954 to present.
We know that Sharon and the Likud party, together with religious fractions of the Israeli government, have no wish for peace whatever. We know that Hamas (founded by Israel) has no desire for peace. Thus, whenever it looks as if peace may become a reality, the Israeli army will kill a few Palestinians, Hamas (or one of the other extremist groups) will kill a few Israelis, and the accusations blast forth again.
We know that under the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949 the Palestinians are "protected persons", and, yes, we can gasp here at the amount of "protection" they have been provided.
We know that violations of the Convention, such as dispossession and settlements, are "war crimes", and, again, we can ask why these war crimes have not been dealt with and why they have been allowed to continue for decades.
We know that the creation of "new facts on the ground" in blatant violation of Article 31(7) of the Oslo Agreement has continued unabated since 1993.
We know that this ethnic cleansing of Palestinians has been allowed to continue because the US doesn't object; in fact, it provides huge economic and military aid, and it vetoes every resolution the UN makes against Israel.
BUT: -
WHAT IF the US emphatically condemned Israel for its atrocities against Palestinians just as it does Palestine's suicide bombings, and it refused future aid until said atrocities stopped?
WHAT IF all settlements were dismantled as soon as they appeared?
WHAT IF there were no suicide bombings?
WHAT IF international peacekeepers were present to ensure Palestinian civilians were protected?
WHAT IF Israel said we are going to withdraw to our 1967 borders, take our settlements with us, and we're going to give back your lands, re-route your water we've taken from you, return your olive grooves, and rebuild the homes we've blown up?
WHAT IF Palestine said thank you. We will accept that, and we will do our utmost to control the extreme element in our society, and we will ask the international community to help in rebuilding our country and ask God to help us rebuild our shattered lives?
WHAT IF both sides said let's stop the propaganda, the hate, the lies?
WHAT IF both sides said we are both to blame, we're sorry, let's start over with an open heart?
WHAT IF -- two sad lonely words"..
Sigh. But one can dream, and in this case, weep..
PS That last bit was added because as I sit here I cannot comprehend such hate, such violence committed against humanity by humanity.
I have revised my earlier post to read the way it was intended to read.. Perhaps the editors can delete that, and if there is to be debate, we can use this one instead, or not, whatever.
--------------------------------------------------
"Okay, we know that the Palestinians have no reason to trust Ariel Sharon any more than the Israelis trust Arafat. Sharon has been doing what he does best - slaughter Palestinian civilians - from 1954 to present.
We know that Sharon and the Likud party, together with religious fractions of the Israeli government, have no wish for peace whatever. We know that Hamas (founded by Israel) has no desire for peace. Thus, whenever it looks as if peace may become a reality, the Israeli army will kill a few Palestinians, Hamas (or one of the other extremist groups) will kill a few Israelis, and the accusations blast forth again.
We know that under the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949 the Palestinians are "protected persons", and, yes, we can gasp here at the amount of "protection" they have been provided.
We know that violations of the Convention, such as dispossession and settlements, are "war crimes", and, again, we can ask why these war crimes have not been dealt with and why they have been allowed to continue for decades.
We know that the creation of "new facts on the ground" in blatant violation of Article 31(7) of the Oslo Agreement has continued unabated since 1993.
We know that this ethnic cleansing of Palestinians has been allowed to continue because the US doesn't object; in fact, it provides huge economic and military aid, and it vetoes every resolution the UN makes against Israel.
BUT: -
WHAT IF the US emphatically condemned Israel for its atrocities against Palestinians just as it does Palestine's suicide bombings, and it refused future aid until said atrocities stopped?
WHAT IF all settlements were dismantled as soon as they appeared?
WHAT IF there were no suicide bombings?
WHAT IF international peacekeepers were present to ensure Palestinian civilians were protected?
WHAT IF Israel said we are going to withdraw to our 1967 borders, take our settlements with us, and we're going to give back your lands, re-route your water we've taken from you, return your olive grooves, and rebuild the homes we've blown up?
WHAT IF Palestine said thank you. We will accept that, and we will do our utmost to control the extreme element in our society, and we will ask the international community to help in rebuilding our country and ask God to help us rebuild our shattered lives?
WHAT IF both sides said let's stop the propaganda, the hate, the lies?
WHAT IF both sides said we are both to blame, we're sorry, let's start over with an open heart?
WHAT IF -- two sad lonely words"..
Sigh. But one can dream, and in this case, weep..
PS That last bit was added because as I sit here I cannot comprehend such hate, such violence committed against humanity by humanity.
When they didn't blow people up, they were oppressed by Israelis. They're still oppressed by Israelis, but this way they get revenge. If you want the Palestinians to stop killing you, stop oppressing them. Nothing else will stop the killings.
So whether there are suicide bombers or not, it matters not a bit. The Palestinian people will continue to be oppressed, deprived of even their basic human rights, and stripped of their hope and dignity as human beings.
Question: How do you fight an enemy that is ready and willing to die for his cause??
Answer: "Accommodate him."
Kill him before he kills you!!! I support Israel's actions to protects her Citizens from Palestinian Teror.
Answer: "Accommodate him."
Kill him before he kills you!!! I support Israel's actions to protects her Citizens from Palestinian Teror.
And I support the Palestinians' actions to protect themselves from Israeli terrorism.
End Israeli oppression. Then we can talk about a Palestinian stand down.
End Israeli oppression. Then we can talk about a Palestinian stand down.
WHAT IF the Arab world invested money for the Palestinians to build buldings, parks, and industrial infrastructure in place of refugee camps??
WHAT IF the 22 Arab countries agreed to accept the Palestinian refugees (since the 22 countries have 800 times more land than Israel)
WHAT IF Palestinian Authority starts teaching acceptance, peace, and non-violent civil disobedience.
WHAT IF Palestinians outlaw HAMAS and ISLAMIS JIHAD??
WHAT IF the Palestinian Authority recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state and Put the word "ISRAEL" on the map??
WHAT IF the Palestinian Mothers love their kids enough to not let them throw stones at armed soldiers.
WHAT IF the Palestinians get a leader like King Hussein of Jordan of Anwar Sadat of Egypt, who said blood is blood, whether it flows from an Israeli or an Arab. Sadat said "I am willing to go to the edge of the world to bring peace for my people"
WHAT IF the Palestinians loved their kids more than they hate Israel.
WHAT IF = 2 very strong words
WHAT IF the 22 Arab countries agreed to accept the Palestinian refugees (since the 22 countries have 800 times more land than Israel)
WHAT IF Palestinian Authority starts teaching acceptance, peace, and non-violent civil disobedience.
WHAT IF Palestinians outlaw HAMAS and ISLAMIS JIHAD??
WHAT IF the Palestinian Authority recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state and Put the word "ISRAEL" on the map??
WHAT IF the Palestinian Mothers love their kids enough to not let them throw stones at armed soldiers.
WHAT IF the Palestinians get a leader like King Hussein of Jordan of Anwar Sadat of Egypt, who said blood is blood, whether it flows from an Israeli or an Arab. Sadat said "I am willing to go to the edge of the world to bring peace for my people"
WHAT IF the Palestinians loved their kids more than they hate Israel.
WHAT IF = 2 very strong words
It's astonishing!.
Todd just gave us an excellent reason why there cannot be peace in this conflict. His entire spiel was devoted to condemning the Palestine peoples but not one word about the terror Israel is causing the Palestinians. In fact, he sounds just like Ariel Sharon. and the rest of the Likud party.
Funny, isn't it, how so many sheep there are in this world. Independent minds seem to be at a minimum, at least on this board.
Todd just gave us an excellent reason why there cannot be peace in this conflict. His entire spiel was devoted to condemning the Palestine peoples but not one word about the terror Israel is causing the Palestinians. In fact, he sounds just like Ariel Sharon. and the rest of the Likud party.
Funny, isn't it, how so many sheep there are in this world. Independent minds seem to be at a minimum, at least on this board.
It would appear that Todd, like a lot of others, is caught up in the old Israel the good, Palestine the bad routine.
Perhaps it might be helpful if Israel taught its soldiers to seek a prudent approach to this conflict (if one can call it that) instead of shooting youngsters in the head , and for what? We're constantly astonished that this army continues to yell "self defence" whilst sitting in a tank shooting at unarmed children who may, or may not, be throwing stones at them.
No, Todd. Regardless of how you try to excuse Israel's treatment of Palestinian civilians, there is no excuse. No matter how you try to detract from the daily killings, you can't. This is not Israel's dirty little secret any more. The world knows what is happening, and we can only hope someday soon it will act.
Oh, and perhaps if Israel had someone like Anwar Sadat, it, too, would behave in a more civilized manner.
Perhaps it might be helpful if Israel taught its soldiers to seek a prudent approach to this conflict (if one can call it that) instead of shooting youngsters in the head , and for what? We're constantly astonished that this army continues to yell "self defence" whilst sitting in a tank shooting at unarmed children who may, or may not, be throwing stones at them.
No, Todd. Regardless of how you try to excuse Israel's treatment of Palestinian civilians, there is no excuse. No matter how you try to detract from the daily killings, you can't. This is not Israel's dirty little secret any more. The world knows what is happening, and we can only hope someday soon it will act.
Oh, and perhaps if Israel had someone like Anwar Sadat, it, too, would behave in a more civilized manner.
What if Israel stopped confiscating Palestinian land.
What if Israel stopped demolishing Palestinian homes.
What if Israel stopped building settlements on the confiscated Palestinian land.
Fact In the early 1990s there were around 100,000 settlers in the West Bank, Now there are over 300,000 and the number of settlement have go up by about 40.
If Israel was looking for a two state solution and therefore peace, should not the number of settlers and settlement be going down instead of up. A pictur is worth a thousand words the Orange areas in the following map are settlement in the 22% of land which is Gaza and West Bank. Gaza and West Bank is 22% of what is today Israel, West Bank and Gaza:
CLICK HERE > http://mondediplo.com/maps/IMG/artoff3260.jpg
For a peaceful solution where both sides win:
CLICK HERE > http://nyc.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=56156&group=webcast
P.S. Angie speaks the truth.
What if Israel stopped demolishing Palestinian homes.
What if Israel stopped building settlements on the confiscated Palestinian land.
Fact In the early 1990s there were around 100,000 settlers in the West Bank, Now there are over 300,000 and the number of settlement have go up by about 40.
If Israel was looking for a two state solution and therefore peace, should not the number of settlers and settlement be going down instead of up. A pictur is worth a thousand words the Orange areas in the following map are settlement in the 22% of land which is Gaza and West Bank. Gaza and West Bank is 22% of what is today Israel, West Bank and Gaza:
CLICK HERE > http://mondediplo.com/maps/IMG/artoff3260.jpg
For a peaceful solution where both sides win:
CLICK HERE > http://nyc.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=56156&group=webcast
P.S. Angie speaks the truth.
Both you and Angel have taken the time to give us a workable solution to this horror, and I commend you for that.
My fear is very real, however, that Israel will not accept nothing short of full control of what is now the Palestinian territories, that it will continue its illegal occupation, and continue to terrorize the ordinary Palestinian civilian..
I do not want to see these peoples continue to be oppressed by an army of occupation. I do not want to see them continue living in hovels where they ended up after their homes and lands were given over to the State of Israel in 1948.
I want them to have the human rights and dignity and self respect that people in civilized countries of the world enjoy. I want to see the children grow up without tanks and guns and missles, etc. I want them to have the chance to be free to live their own lives, enjoy their own culture.
Do you and Angel feel that my concerns, which I am sure are the concerns of others seeking justice for the horrors the Palestinians have suffered, can result from either of your visions? Please respond. I am seriously concerned about any road map in that the US will allow Israel to turn it into something completely unrecognizable to the one now being presented to the world.
And from what we heard re the meeting between the two governments this weekend (Palestine agreeable, Israel not) I am sadly aware that my fears are justified.
My fear is very real, however, that Israel will not accept nothing short of full control of what is now the Palestinian territories, that it will continue its illegal occupation, and continue to terrorize the ordinary Palestinian civilian..
I do not want to see these peoples continue to be oppressed by an army of occupation. I do not want to see them continue living in hovels where they ended up after their homes and lands were given over to the State of Israel in 1948.
I want them to have the human rights and dignity and self respect that people in civilized countries of the world enjoy. I want to see the children grow up without tanks and guns and missles, etc. I want them to have the chance to be free to live their own lives, enjoy their own culture.
Do you and Angel feel that my concerns, which I am sure are the concerns of others seeking justice for the horrors the Palestinians have suffered, can result from either of your visions? Please respond. I am seriously concerned about any road map in that the US will allow Israel to turn it into something completely unrecognizable to the one now being presented to the world.
And from what we heard re the meeting between the two governments this weekend (Palestine agreeable, Israel not) I am sadly aware that my fears are justified.
Some people are caught up in israel the good palestine the bad.. the majority of the worlds population however is caught up in Israel the bad and palestine the good (the majority who care anyway).
therefore you sould really deal with the bigger problem first.
WHAT IF the US emphatically condemned Israel for its atrocities against Palestinian civilians just as it does Palestinians, and refused further aid until the said atrocities ceased?
-Israels actiopns are very similar to everyone elses actions who have been faced by insurgency. it would be impractical to challenge ALL countries who do that. For example today we would have to cut off IMF loans etc etc to indonesia (and cause another asian crisis) we would also have to sanction china and pakistain (for occupying parts of India) amongst many other impractical things.
We do what we do because we want a real solution not leave the world a total mess through some attempt to apply unworkable idealism to policy.
WHAT IF all settlements were dismantled the moment they appeared?
hmmm interesting question regarding this....are settlements made on stolen land? or is it bought land? Seems that that is relevant if it is stolen then of course get rid of them if it is bought etc etc thener.. you are promoting ethnic cleansing? maybe it had to bedone but it is an unbelievably bad precident.
WHAT IF internatioinal peacekeeprs were present to ensure that Palestinian civilians were protected?
The peacekeepers cant stop terrorists (so they would achieve nothing for israel) and they would be slaughtered if they attacked israel.
WHAT IF Israel said we are going to withdraw to our 1967 borders, take our settlements with us, and we're going to give you back your lands, re-route your water we've taken from you, replace your olive grooves, and rebuild the houses we've blown up?
- Shall they give standard israeli soldier pay for their terrorists back paid until 1967 as well?
WHAT IF Palestine said thank you. We accept that, and we will do our utmost to control the extreme element in our society, and we will ask the international community for help in rebuilding our country, and ask God to help us rebuild our shattered lives?
- Yes please.... unfortunatly "utmost" is not very much at all as far as I have seen international comunity does alot of complaining and very little doing and god actually plans for some blood up to the horses bridle sort of things to go on there.
WHAT IF both sides said let's stop the propaganda, the hate, the lies?
OH yes.. the vast majority of that occurs on the palistinian side.. in fact the islamic side.. palestine cant stop it by themselves. you need the whole islamic world at the bargaining table.
therefore you sould really deal with the bigger problem first.
WHAT IF the US emphatically condemned Israel for its atrocities against Palestinian civilians just as it does Palestinians, and refused further aid until the said atrocities ceased?
-Israels actiopns are very similar to everyone elses actions who have been faced by insurgency. it would be impractical to challenge ALL countries who do that. For example today we would have to cut off IMF loans etc etc to indonesia (and cause another asian crisis) we would also have to sanction china and pakistain (for occupying parts of India) amongst many other impractical things.
We do what we do because we want a real solution not leave the world a total mess through some attempt to apply unworkable idealism to policy.
WHAT IF all settlements were dismantled the moment they appeared?
hmmm interesting question regarding this....are settlements made on stolen land? or is it bought land? Seems that that is relevant if it is stolen then of course get rid of them if it is bought etc etc thener.. you are promoting ethnic cleansing? maybe it had to bedone but it is an unbelievably bad precident.
WHAT IF internatioinal peacekeeprs were present to ensure that Palestinian civilians were protected?
The peacekeepers cant stop terrorists (so they would achieve nothing for israel) and they would be slaughtered if they attacked israel.
WHAT IF Israel said we are going to withdraw to our 1967 borders, take our settlements with us, and we're going to give you back your lands, re-route your water we've taken from you, replace your olive grooves, and rebuild the houses we've blown up?
- Shall they give standard israeli soldier pay for their terrorists back paid until 1967 as well?
WHAT IF Palestine said thank you. We accept that, and we will do our utmost to control the extreme element in our society, and we will ask the international community for help in rebuilding our country, and ask God to help us rebuild our shattered lives?
- Yes please.... unfortunatly "utmost" is not very much at all as far as I have seen international comunity does alot of complaining and very little doing and god actually plans for some blood up to the horses bridle sort of things to go on there.
WHAT IF both sides said let's stop the propaganda, the hate, the lies?
OH yes.. the vast majority of that occurs on the palistinian side.. in fact the islamic side.. palestine cant stop it by themselves. you need the whole islamic world at the bargaining table.
Well, Scottie, as you seem to be an expert in this conflict, perhaps you can tell us what the hell Israel is doing beyond the 1967 borders? When the State of Israel was formed in 1948 I am not aware of it stretching into the West Bank and Gaza. Oh, right. Grabbed in "self defence".
Nor am I aware that the international community reversed the terms of the Fourth Geneva Convention to allow settlements and dispossession of Palestinians who, under the Convention, are " protected persons". Ooops, forgot there for a moment. In certain sectors of Israeli society Palestinians are not humans.
Israeli writer, Israel Shamir, in the Russian Israeli publication, RI , in December of 2000, stated that Israelis:-
"are taught they belong to the Chosen People who are Uber Alles. They have been indoctrinated in the belief that the Gentiles are not fully human and therefore can be killed and expropriated at will".
He went on to add:
"The Jewish state is the only place in the world possessing legitimate killer squads, embracing a policy of assassinations and practicing torture on a medieval scale. But do not worry, dear Jewish readers, we only torture and assassinate Gentiles only".
US Jewish observer, Eduardo Cohen, stated that: -
"Whilst travelling through Israel I encountered a deep, widespread, and racist contempt of Arabs" based on the belief that Arabs "didn't share the same faculties of thought and reason that 'civilized human beings' possess".
Further, critically acclaimed US author, Edward S. Herman, writes:
"Debates continue in Israel between the hardliners like Netanyahu, who favour a forcible transfer and mass deportation from the territories, and the moderates who are relying on slow but steady dispossession and "voluntary" exit by impoverishment".
Which is just what we are seeing today and have been witnessing for the last fifty plus years..
Nor am I aware that the international community reversed the terms of the Fourth Geneva Convention to allow settlements and dispossession of Palestinians who, under the Convention, are " protected persons". Ooops, forgot there for a moment. In certain sectors of Israeli society Palestinians are not humans.
Israeli writer, Israel Shamir, in the Russian Israeli publication, RI , in December of 2000, stated that Israelis:-
"are taught they belong to the Chosen People who are Uber Alles. They have been indoctrinated in the belief that the Gentiles are not fully human and therefore can be killed and expropriated at will".
He went on to add:
"The Jewish state is the only place in the world possessing legitimate killer squads, embracing a policy of assassinations and practicing torture on a medieval scale. But do not worry, dear Jewish readers, we only torture and assassinate Gentiles only".
US Jewish observer, Eduardo Cohen, stated that: -
"Whilst travelling through Israel I encountered a deep, widespread, and racist contempt of Arabs" based on the belief that Arabs "didn't share the same faculties of thought and reason that 'civilized human beings' possess".
Further, critically acclaimed US author, Edward S. Herman, writes:
"Debates continue in Israel between the hardliners like Netanyahu, who favour a forcible transfer and mass deportation from the territories, and the moderates who are relying on slow but steady dispossession and "voluntary" exit by impoverishment".
Which is just what we are seeing today and have been witnessing for the last fifty plus years..
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