Just burn that damn rag; and while you're at it, burn all the patriots and pacifists.

So the non patriot wants to burn the ones who have made it possible for him/she/it to live free and make stupid comments. What a total moron.

The rationale for Brent's "celebration" is described in "The (Semiotic) Stench of a Burning Flag (Amendment)" at http://www.spectacle.org/296/flag.html .

However...

Honduras was recently the target of a coup (verbally condemned but financially supported by the Obama regime). See "The Rise, Represion and Uncertain Future of the Coup; Showdown in Honduras" at http://www.counterpunch.org/dangl06302009.html .

I imagine patriots down there are into burning the U.S. flag--not as an exercise in First Amendment freedoms, but as a demonstration of outrage at U.S. imperialism and the hypocrisy of its democratic pretentions.

Burning a flag in solidarity with the Honduran people on July 4th makes more sense to me than burning a flag as a "celebration of the First Amendment." Divorcing flagburning from its visceral ("Yanqui, go home!") content is a way of stripping the action of its force. Using constitutional arguments and hailing the First Amendment seems to me to be an attempt to dampen reactionary kneejerk jingoism ("see, it's not so threatening"). But the point of a flag-burning in countries occupied by the U.S. or profiteering international corporations closely tied to U.S. guns and money IS to threaten ("get the fuck out!").

Burn a flag on the 4th in front of the Honduran counselate in protest of continued U.S. support for the Honduran coup-sters. That's a real way of using the First Amendment in more than an empty symbolic way. Divorcing U.S. flagburning from what it traditionally means throughout Latin America is a way of concealing or ignoring important history. Millions are being ripped off by the maquiladoras (exported NAFTA industries using cheap labor), especially in Honduras.

Real patriots who support the better principles of the American Revolution back self-determination for exploited countries around the world. The Obama regime has its flag flying over 730+ military bases and its troops still stationed in Iraqi cities (see "Gen. Odierno Concedes Troops Remain in Iraqi Cities, Won’t Say How Many; "I Just Don't Want to Do It," US Commander Insists" at http://news.antiwar.com/2009/06/30/gen-odierno-concedes-troops-remain-in-iraqi-cities-wont-say-how-many/ ). And it's murdering civilians in Afghanistan and Pakistan and supporting civil wars there and in Iran and Iraq. If that's what the flag is covering up, it's time to end the coverup.

And perhaps a good old-fashioned flag burning is a good way to start.

Thanks, Robert. I have saved this little rant and will repost it whenever you pop up on the Sentinel forum. It shows what you are all about and will help undermine your arguments on other topics.

Patriot, you stupid fuck, free speech is a natural human right. No person, institution, or government has given this right to anyone. They can only take this natural right away.

Also, you are most certainly not free. Have you heard of these things that they have called "laws"? Laws are binding, with the threat of deady force, on all 'citizens'. How can anybody be free if they can be seized, detained, and murdered at the discretion of their government without notice and at anytime with or without cause?

If some idiot wants to burn a capitalist flag in the terrible heat of summer, they can do so, but that does not solve any problems and makes one wonder what fantasy world the flag-burners live in. WE HAVE TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM OF POVERTY IN ORDER TO LIVE AND THAT MEANS LABOR ORGANIZING FOR A GENERAL STRIKE TO ABOLISH THE PROFIT MOTIVE.

In California, right now, the Legislature and the childish idiot sitting in the governor's office, reading a fascist script, plan to abolish welfare and state pensions and the school system for the workingclass. That means hundreds of thousands of people will be faced with DEATH. Of course, they will not die without a fight, and that means everyone's life is on the line. For more on the budget crisis, manufactured by the capitalist class, see
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2009/07/01/18604998.php

For more on the lessons of the 1934 San Francisco General Strike, the 1946 Oakland General Strike, the 10th anniversary of the WTO demonstrations in Seattle and much more, see
http://www.laborfest.net/2009schedule.htm
and
http://www.indybay.org/labor/
THERE ARE OVER 70 EVENTS AT LABORFEST, a good opporunity to learn what is to be done to save the lives of the workingclass, and to meet others who want to do the same.

Brent's certainly not an idiot, notwithstanding my comments about the misdirected focus of the Flag Burning.

He's recently helped reestablish the Street Performers Guild. He worked successfully to help resolve the Jack's homeless discrimination dispute and is currently active in mediating between merchants and disadvantaged groups.

The First Amendment (what we have of it that remains) is a good thing to support--which is Brent's point.

$'s suggestions about the need for a General Strike, following Labor history, and restoring fair Progressive taxation is are also good ones.

Check out another 4th of July protest 1 PM at Bunny's Shoes (see the lead story at http://beckyjohnsononewomantalking.blogspot.com/). Restoring rights for poor and homeless people is a relevant topic on the 4th of July as well.

Call in to comment on this issue tonight 6-8 PM on Free Radio at 427-3772 (101.1 FM, http://www.freakradio.org).

I wouldn't call Schwarzenegger a fascist. He is displaying far-right capitalist values by waving his arms about not waving taxes, while we have over 11.5% official unemployment. If they cut all Calworks families, there will be misery, and some chaos and medical deaths, even though this state still has a huge wealthy class with expensive property.
Fascism seems to require some sort of populist appeal to the working class, often with extensive use of scapegoats. I'd never make the claim that fascism and communism are similar, and most fascist governments fought with communists or scared people into supporting them via a red threat. The scapegoat can include a super-lower class which falls below the working class, such as the disabled requiring assistance, or drug users/criminals/immigrants. But I'd say that right now, Schwarzenegger is making choices to piss off the broader masses in favor of upper-middle class worried about changing their prop.13 status. It also implies a militaristic aesthetic.

"Fascism seems to require some sort of populist appeal to the working class, often with extensive use of scapegoats. "

-I think Arnold is doing that by appealing to low-paid private sector workers and unemployed by attacking the "overpaid" public sector employees. It is classic divisive tactics, meant to distract the working class. It is meant to get the lower class private sector workers to think "why do these gov workers get retirement plans, weekends off, sick leave, etc when I'm not and I pay taxes for all of them!" Rather they should be thinking (demanding) "why don't we in the private sector get the same kind of deal by FORCING our employees to give it to us through collective actions?" It is easier to blame teachers vacation time, prison guards, etc.

Burn the shit - don't apoligize for burning it!

Flags, by definition, mean murder and rape.
Why apologize and say that this action is for 'consecrating' murder and rape?

i was handed a flyer for this yesterday and assumed that the "patriotic" schtick was either a way to not get fucked with (as much) or just some wingnut shit, depending on how you look at it. i say burn those fuckers in the middle of pacific ave. i would also like to gesture to berkeleys july 4 tradition of destroying tvs.

no loyalty to the slaughterhouse of nationalism, no hope in the democratic lie!

Awesome comments!
Every year we've changed the marketing of this event just a little.j
Most will see that on the face of it that it is a flag burning. It is protected as free speech because it is protest language.
But we feel it is multi-layered in meaning. No flag will ever be a symbol for my freedom but a burning flag may.
We argue with the word desecration but sometimes that may be what we want to do to a flag. I get that.
Its true that we are marketing this year's event as a "consecration" .. because that's how I feel this year about this event.
You can have any meaning you want when you join us to burn a flag or watch us burn them... It is an individual thing.
All will have an opportunity to say whatever they will during the ritual and that's cool.
I want to really try to go there in my mind and spirit and feel complete when my flag burns that I am celebrating my freedom.