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East Bay | Police State and Prisons | Racial Justice

Angry Oakland Police Kill African American Man in Haste; 4 Die, One Critical
by Copwatch13
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 1:41 PM
After two officers were shot hours earlier, police in Oakland shoot and kill a young African American male suspect when alternative remedies might have been available. Confrontation that could have ended with only one death turns into four.
On Saturday, March 21st, for the second time in recent months, police in Oakland shot and killed a young African American man apparently after prematurely resorting to the use of deadly force when alternative remedies were available. This time, the haste on the part of police caused them to lose two of their own just after two other officers had just been shot, with one killed, at a separate location.

It all started with a routine traffic stop at about 1:15 p.m. near the 7400 block of MacArthur Boulevard in East Oakland. Two Oakland motorcycle officers are said to have stopped 26 year-old Lovelle Mixon, an African American man from Oakland. Police allege that Mr. Mixon shot the two traffic officers and then fled.

According to police, about two hours after the shooting, they had information which led them to believe Mr. Mixon was hiding alone in an apartment on 74th Avenue near Hillside Street. At that point, over 200 officers from the Oakland Police, Alameda County Sheriff's Office, BART Police and the California Highway Patrol surrounded the area where Mr. Mixon was believed to be.

However, rather than attempt a carefully planned, negotiated, non-violent ending, and angry over the shooting of the two traffic officers, a hasty Oakland Police Swat Team apparently rushed into the building armed with military rifles, assault weapons and other means of deadly force to use against Mr. Mixon. In the heat of the moment, there was allegedly an exchange of gunfire between Mr. Mixon and the Swat officers. It's not clear yet whether Mr. Mixon fired in self-defense, but no information suggests that he was a threat while he remained there alone. In the exchange of gunfire, Mr. Mixon was killed. Three Swat officers were also shot, two of whom later died.

The incident is still being investigated. Thus far, the Oakland Police have offered no explanation for the Swat Team's departure from ordinary officer safety precautions, such as why it was imminently necessary to storm into the building if they had it surrounded and believed Mr. Mixon was alone or had no reason to believe he had hostages.

According to one police officer who asked not to be identified, police are trained to encourage attempts at negotiations in order to facilitate non-violent outcomes when someone is barricaded or "holed up." The officer said that this is true even when the person hiding out has done something violent or actually has hostages.

Many people are now wondering if the police were hasty, careless or reckless this time because they were angry that someone had shot two of their own. Questions have been raised as to whether their resolve to get revenge influenced what should have been an overriding concern for minimizing the risk of additional violence after one violent confrontation had already occurred.

What is clear, however, is that a young African American man from Oakland who was only a suspect was promptly killed rather than arrested. Although nothing yet suggests that the two motorcycle officers could have avoided their fate, Mr. Mixon's death, and the deaths of the two Swat officers, might very well have been avoided if reasonable attempts to negotiate Mr. Mixon's voluntary exit had been exhausted.

Comments  (Hide Comments)

by Z-Man
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 2:26 PM
You'd be surprised how hard it is to deploy soothing therapeutic platitudes when someone's holed up in a closet with an assault rifle and has already demonstrated a complete willingness to use it. I just want to know, is there any violence you won't excuse when your ideology requires you to?
by Disgusted with endless apologia for thugs
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 2:31 PM
"nothing yet suggests that the two motorcycle officers could have avoided their fate." That kind of writing is sick.
by exactlyright
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 2:32 PM
There are countless examples of people barricading themselves with weapons where cops have been successful at luring them out peacefully. It happens all the time, even after the person killed someone. So yes, they should have tried that first. Sometimes it takes hours or even days. Patience would have behooved them. Instead, they blew it, and look where it got them.
by blake
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 2:32 PM
This is the most ridiculous article I have ever seen. I don't understand why you folks don't see the damage you do to your own selves. You destroy any credibility you might ever have by printing something like this. There are times when you should raise up your head and speak, and there are times when you should not. This is one of those times. To insinuate that these officers did anything wrong shows that you are against the police regardless of anything they do. Four Police Officers died...whether you like them or not, these are the men and women entrusted in keeping our streets safe. These are the men and women that people like you will call when you are in need. Show some taste and lay off for one day. We know you will complain about anything you can, including this... but lay off, let the healing begin before you start your pointless criticism of things you know little if anything about.
by BG
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 2:37 PM
This is a ridiculous article, Copwatch13. The guy shot two cops at a traffic stop, and you're mad that they went after him after they knew where he was? WTF? These cops were as innocent as Oscar Grant, but you have no sympathy for them. Your agenda gets in the way of your reporting, and makes this terrible situation even worse.
by not ridculous
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 2:37 PM
The fact is, they were hasty and ignored normal procedure to exact revenge. The issue should be raised to prevent similar mistakes in the future. Gung ho approaches should be discouraged. In police circles, it's referred to as "John Wayn syndrome."
by its obvious
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 2:41 PM
just using different names. nice try...

the cops were in too much of a hurry to kill.
by BG
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 2:42 PM
I guarantee you I am not "Blake." Maybe the fact multiple people are coming to teh same conclusion tells you something....
by indybuff
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 2:45 PM
this article says what the mainstream media is too afraid to say but what is true
by Z-Man
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 2:47 PM
I can't believe that after a triple murder all you can talk about is police following "proper procedures". Yes, police procedure is the real problem here. Are you absolutely blind to any other factors in this situation? Oh right, in your ideology the only problem is cops. Cops create crime. No one actually commits crime. There is no such thing as a violent sociopath in the world. Only innocent people provoked by cops. Innocent people with assault rifles. I repeat: there is no atrocity you would not make excuses for if your ideology required it. Prove me wrong.
by Too Sense
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 2:49 PM
The corporate media always spins it as if the police can do no wrong.
by howsit
( interjections [at] gmail.com ) Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 2:55 PM
If he would have surrendered they would have simply killed him in jail and said he tripped and broke his neck or hung himself like they always do. This way, at least he got four for the price of one. Also, some people really need to know that everyone does not live like them. I have had many unfortunate things happen to me and I DO NOT, I REPEAT DO NOT call the police, some of us know better. They may protect some, but the rest of us just get served and not in a good way.
by not ridiculous
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 2:56 PM
there's plenty of news coverage generating sympathy for the cops. i don't think anyone has to worry about a lack of sympathy being generated simply because one article here properly raises the question of police haste and carelessness.

the fact is, cops did NOT need to rush in when they did, and they could have avoided this tragedy, but they were gung ho.
by .....
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 3:00 PM
police procedure is harass anyone who appears not straight haired white enough
by Too Sense
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 3:05 PM
It's pretty hard to be sympathetic to cops in Oakland these days when they're shooting unarmed people in the back, firing rubber bullets at protestors, lying on the witness stands, covering up their colleagues' uses of excessive force, and performing unlawful stops, searches and seizures on a regular basis. Lately, they've been the real bad guys, so nobody should be surprised at the lack of sympathy now. They've brought the esentiment on themselves.
by Abbott Greene
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 3:08 PM
Was Oakland Police Department partially to blame for the carnage on Saturday? Perhaps this is so.

There were non-confrontational alternatives available to the late Mr. Mixon as well. He could have sat in his car and awaited a reunion with the judicial system instead of shooting two policemen in the head.

After the awkward traffic stop Mixon could have surrendered to the OPD. Or, he could have called or texted the police and negotiated a surrender. Mixon must have been a little upset after shooting the officers, so it's not his fault for not considering these alternatives

Oakland Police Department could have waited and negotiated with Mixon instead of rushing him. I'm sure none of Mixon's neighbors would have minded if he took them hostage. Maybe it would have been better just to await description of Mixon's car on Amber Alert.

By all descriptions Mr. Mixon was just your typical young guy, fresh out of State Prison with an illegal assault rifle and handgun. It wasn't his fault that he hid in a closet and was forced to blast away through the door when he heard someone approaching.

Maybe it time to blame the police department.
Probably a little bit of all three.
by not ridiculous
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 3:16 PM
i imagine that the other cops learned an important lesson yesterday and won't be so quick to storm in to the next guy's house. oaklanders fight back. 1 for 4...
who lost that battle? let it be a lesson.
by ...
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 3:29 PM
savage is code word for ni---r no doubt.you dont want to come out asnd say it ,but thats americas code words for negroid race of any hue
by sane leftist
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 3:35 PM
So perhaps the SWAT team wanted blood. Two officers were shot and killed. I would want blood as well. They may have made a mistake entering the apartment complex. But who says the apartment complex was empty? Cite some report please.

Here are some articles.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/03/21/california.officers/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/03/22/california.officers/index.html
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/03/22/MNVB16KU75.DTL
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/03/22/MNCT16L53S.DTL
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/03/22/BA8H16L3BI.DTL

"First reports of the incident came from a 911 call at 1:16 p.m., reporting that two officers had been shot, possibly with an assault-type rifle. The suspect fled from the scene on foot, sparking a door-to-door manhunt in East Oakland that involved officers from at least five law enforcement agencies.

An anonymous tipster told police that the suspect was in an apartment building just blocks from the original shooting. The SWAT team was called to the site and took control of the area around the building. After repeated attempts to communicate with the suspect, SWAT officers entered the building around 3:30 p.m."

So no communication from Mr. Mixon. Perhaps others were in danger inside? How do the police know?
by a-feminist
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 3:37 PM
"Two officers were shot and killed. I would want blood as well."

Perhaps that's why you shouldn't be a cop. Just saying.
by oldguy
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 3:42 PM
It's obvious that the author isn't advocating the murder of police officers. Instead I think this person is simply noting how officers STILL are acting out of protocol and making HUGE mistakes. For the record a cop hasn't been killed in Oakland since 2006 and that was by a hit and run. The last OPD officer to die by the gun of a suspect was in 1999 and the last time this many OPD were killed in one day was in 1898. 4 cops die and who is to blame? An irrational man who has no authority or accountability to uphold the law but for his own volition or those who are put in social contract to due just that and ignore it time and time again. Just look at how many people have unjustly died at the hands of pigs since the year began in oakland and beyond. The statistics are much harder to find and much more overwhelming once you do.
Fuck the Police.
by sane leftist
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 3:44 PM
"Perhaps that's why you shouldn't be a cop. Just saying."

I am not a cop. So glad I am not a cop...
by cp
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 3:46 PM
The man had just killed two people, so a strong police response was very important.

However, we should think about the fact that *three* SWAT team officers were shot. This is the point I've been scanning the articles to understand. I want to know if he had special armor piercing bullets, or what the hell happened? Their deaths are unacceptable, because shouldn't a SWAT team under good leadership have almost no possibility of someone getting shot? Don't they have special shields, and super thick helmets and vests? I can understand that traffic officers don't have that. Was the leadership of this SWAT team being too hasty, or sending them into the apartment unprepared, given that they knew someone with guns was in there? I am thinking that even if he was shooting, they should have had all the armor protecting them, and I want to know why there wasn't just one accident where a SWAT guy was shot by turning the wrong way or letting his head go unprotected for a second, but three were hit.
by a-feminist
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 3:47 PM
"I am not a cop. So glad I am not a cop..."

Well, same here. All due respect, perhaps there's a reason for that...
by a-feminist
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 4:14 PM
"However, we should think about the fact that *three* SWAT team officers were shot. "

Indeed, cp. The problem with the media coverage of these kinds of events is that the sensationalism of it all plays to people's outrage over cops getting shot; it's typically well after the fact that the actual details of what went on come out, if it gets covered at all. In the heat of the moment, a lot of people on both the left and the right don't pay attention to that, and instead, go for their emotional reaction. If you are one of those people, consider how you'll feel if you find out six months from now that in fact, the guy who shot was acting in self-defense, or it was friendly fire, or any one of a number of other things. I'm not saying that IS the case - I'm saying that what is getting reported is sketchy at best; it's not journalism, it's a play for your emotions. If your response is "I don't care, cops are dead" -- well, you should care, because you may be being lied to, or you may not. When reporters aren't allowed to dig into a story, typically what follows is a mountain of generalizations and half-truths, and we all pay the price. Look at what happened with WMDs - first it was "there are definitely WMDs, the debate is over, we're going to war" then it was "well, maybe there aren't WMDs after all, oops, sorry for all the dead soldiers and the billions of dollars of debt" - after the fact. "After the fact" is too late, and y'all shouldn't settle for it. This is exactly the kind of situation that gave rise to blogging.
In fact, they looked on when a rogue cop shot Oscar Grant in the back. And after the shooting, they continued to look on while that rogue cop holstered his weapon and proceeded to restrain Grant further. And they knew Grant posed no threat and knew that excessive force had just been used on an unarmed civilian, but they didn't attempt to apprehend the shooter, and they didn't surround that shooter with a sswat team and order him to lie face down so they could arrest him and charge him with first degree murder (as the DA did only after public outcry made it impossible to avoid). But when a cop is killed, they shoot first and ask questions later. If a cop is killed, then all they need to know is whether they have a suspect, and if they do, the goal is to kill him. But they weren't interested in bringing such "justice" to the suspect in the Oscar Grant murder--i.e., to the suspect cop--because they think cop blood is better than citizen blood.
by Dr. Rebel
( danielspress [at] gmail.com ) Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 4:44 PM
This article is, without question, a product of 'phantom reality.' It's sort of a sub reality Americans live in while depending upon individuals whom may not favor their race, creed, gender, demographics or community as whole. It is very important that we "break on through to the other side" to the truth. Because our reality may very well be altered to fit certain stereotypes. A-Feminist is very Just in looking at the entire scope. It is our God Given Right. We The People must arrive at a point in time when we are able to share truth without the benefits of war.
by Me
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 4:56 PM
first of all i'm black so save your race card. Secondly mixon is a murderer you sound so sympathetic for a man that killed 4 police officers. You are ridiculous!
by me
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 5:05 PM
wow, blaming the cops for this one?? you guys are reaching..this is what makes you an unrealiable source of "news", this one-sided BS reporting. Wow, I am just in awe at your inflammatory and untrue a and inaccurate headline. That Mixon guy deserved to die, he had already killed 2 people. Period.
by (A)
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 5:05 PM
Four less cops on our streets. Glad they're gone.

Solidarity with Lovelle Mixon. Long live his memory. He's a hero for our time.
by Concerned
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 5:16 PM
Neither he nor we ever got the chance to learn the truth, because the swat team acted as judge, jury and executioner. And now the story will be written by the cops for the media to rubber stamp and parrot. What the cops will leave out is the fact that they probably could have saved three lives by negotiated discussion after calming time. The scene was secured, and there were no hostage threats when they stormed in to where Mixon was hiding out. It was reckless to charge in and much like when the US soldiers in Iraq stormed the homes of Iraqi civilians and women and children and killed everyone in sight after a soldier was killed. The reckless haste to kill Mixon was about revenge, and that recklessness got the cops killed, too. Bad decision. Period.
by miles
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 5:23 PM
Today I'm ashamed to be considered an anarchist in the same club as those you are cheering for a sociopath. Such things really get in the way of having Normals attracted (long-term) to our ideas. Mixon, by all accounts, was a troubled young man, on parole after serving time for assault with a deadly weapon. I am in favor of prison abolition and the abolition of retributive justice, but there are actual real sociopaths out there, who prey on those they perceive as weak. Anarchists, who promote the practice of increased interpersonal responsibility, should be aware of this. While calling the cops on people is pretty stupid and fucked up, and while the existence of cops is nasty, and while we understand that anything good they do is by accident (and outweighed by a factor of at least 100 when it comes to doing the usual bullying they excel at), celebrating the unmotivated murder of anyone is inhuman. Self-defense is one thing, but if it turns out that it was a random traffic stop, then Mixon was a mad dog killer, cold as ice, and a danger to his neighbors. He didn't deserve to be executed by SWAT, but I wouldn't have wanted him in my neighborhood.
by .
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 5:34 PM
you had a racial profiler on a certain force,and the guy resigned as a result of a scanda. but until he was caught cheating,he put an innocent person in jail and 100, ooo bail.false charges.were you asking your county jail if there is anyone in there that says theyre innocent and were falsely arrested? no? ,well ,you dont give a darn about african americans.we have no officioal authority that represents us,we dont have the get out of jail white race card.
by a-feminist
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 5:36 PM
"My name is Max Allstadt, and I'm calling you a coward."

Well...

You ever see that New Yorker cartoon where one dog says to another, "On the Internet, nobody knows that I'm a dog?" That's why calling BS on someone using a pseudonym doesn't work. Who's to say that "Max Allstadt" isn't a pseudonym, and if you deny that it is, who's to say that you're not lying? Also, calling someone a coward on the Internet is like saying you don't like their shoes - it's not really of much pertinence, and more likely to result in an argument centered around a larger and larger pile of assumptions and absurdities. It's part of the dynamics of anonymous forums - and on the Internet, all forums are anonymous, all appearances to the contrary (see above New Yorker reference).
by Too Sense
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 5:40 PM
I think it's important to focus on understanding WHY any such cheerleading might happen. It's happening because of cases like Oscar Grant. Is it any wonder why some people might be cheering now after what happened to Grant only three months ago? What we should address is the root cause of why people feel such hostility to police generally. It isn't because they have an inherent instinct to hate cops: it's because cops have perpetually and systematically engaged in a collective pattern of violating peoples' civil rights. That's the problem. The problem is not with rogue anarchists.
by SFjustice
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 5:52 PM
To suggest that he was possibly shooting at the SWAT team in "self-defense" is absurd. He was holed up in a closet, and shot them through the closet door, using it as concealment. This was a cowardly assassination of police officers, not self-defense.
by Jack
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 5:54 PM
If you murder someone, you are a murderer. If you don't kill anybody, but are convicted of murder, then you are a convict and people will say you are a convicted murderer, but you are not. If you murder somebody, but are not conviced of murder, you are still a murderer. The guy who got pulled over, whose race is so very important to racists, is not "merely a suspect". He is either a murderer, or he isn't. He may be a dead murderer, but if he did commit murder, then he is still a murderer. That he was legally a suspect is a point only important to people who live in an alternate reality.

And of course, it seems very, very unlikely he isn't a dead murderer.
by Copwatch13
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 6:08 PM
I understand why some people might be shocked to read a piece that differs greatly from the accounts of the mainstream press. But that's exactly what Indybay is for.

The article accurately reflects the facts and questions and points that came up in my objective and independent look at the story. In fact, it was the lack of objectivity in the major corporate versions of the story that compelled me to include coverage of the significant things that were left out of those versions, such as the question of whether it was premature to storm the apartment.

I hope the critics aren'tt disappointed simply because the piece asks questions that CNN or SFGate failed to ask or because it raises the possibility that the police had some fault in the outcome of the incidents.
by nope
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 6:10 PM
Re: A's comment: "Four less cops on the streets."

This is moronic. Obviously when cops are killed they put MORE cops on the streets and use situations like this to justify even bigger budgets and deadlier weapons.

Think before you comment, you mindless reactionary.
by arthur
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 6:13 PM
how about asking all of the other question that led up to the 'suspect' still being on the streets, illegally in possession of a weapon AND KILLING TWO POLICE OFFICERS IN COLD BLOOD before cowardly ambushing two more. start with those first if you want to play journalist.
by Too Sense
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 6:20 PM
Well, maybe if there weren't so many drug offenders unnecessarily filling up the prisons, there'd be more room for dangerous offenders...
by Quisqualis
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 6:32 PM
This horrible tragedy definitely was compounded by the reckless response of the SWAT team. If police were following the recommended procedure for this type of fugitive situation, no SWAT team members would have been killed. I am so saddened by the four police deaths, yet angry that emotions and machismo won out over reason. Maybe "this time" a lesson will be learned, once and for all. Such an expensive lesson, alas.
by a-feminist
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 6:37 PM
Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/21/oakland-police-shot-after_n_177699.html (original article from AP)

"After shooting Hege and Dunakin, the gunman fled on foot, police said, leading to an intense manhunt.

Two hours later, officers found the gunman inside a nearby apartment building. When a SWAT team entered, the gunman opened fire, police said. Sgt. Ervin Romans, 43, and Sgt. Daniel Sakai, 35 were killed and a third officer was grazed by a bullet, police said.

Officers returned fire, killing Mixon, police said.

Mixon's sister, Reynete Mixon, 16, said she was sleeping when police kicked in the door and threw flash grenades, one of which struck her and caused minor burns on her leg. She said she did not know her brother was in the apartment when she fled as shots rang out."

So. What we know is:

Cops were fired upon
The police say that it was the perp's fault
The police shot into a building with a minor present, whom they injured

What is missing:

A version of the story from someone other than the police
An explanation of their behavior when they entered the building

The rest of all this is people asserting already-held, and deeply rooted, values and beliefs. This is *exactly* how consent is manufactured, and it is also how people are divided in this country. I don't care if this was the start of the apocalypse, if you don't keep a level head and read the news objectively, you are risking being manipulated by people with more power than you - which does absolutely nothing to address the problem in question. Meanwhile, five people are dead, one is hanging onto life, the economy is teetering on collapse, and the US is mired in two wars of highly questionable merit, with the possibly of a military incursion on the US-Mexico border increasing in probability by the day. Are we having fun yet?
by mcRen
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 6:52 PM
Usually when the police pull you over they run your plate first. If he was in his own car they would have known that they had a wanted person on their hands and I doubt he would have been able to kill both of them, because police who have been on high alert and maybe even called for backup before approaching him. So was he in his own car or someone else's? Or did they NOT follow procedure and check him first? If so, I wonder why.

Also, I wonder who called in the tip on where he was? I wonder if he did did it and lay in wait?
by leni
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 6:57 PM
Hopefully in the next few days they mention something about police procedures, and where in the body these officers were shot. Hege, a traffic officer, went brain dead and they mentioned that either he or the second motor officer had a hole in the helmet, so we can assume they were shot in the head. Were the SWAT officers wearing little protection? It also sounds like they could have taken more caution when entering the apartment. Even after they initially knocked the front door down, can anyone explain if they could have entered in a way which involved more cover, or even letter the gas bomb put them to sleep? For example, the teenager should have had a chance to leave w/o getting shot if she wasn't being held hostage. Other police would be guarding the windows so he couldn't run out the back.
by Quisqualis
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 7:19 PM
Why a dangerous individual was approached so casually at the traffic stop is an important question.

Also, whether Mixon was making a "last stand," intending to die, and lured SWAT officers in with a "tip" to police needs to be determined.

The tragedy has many angles left to explore. Volumes worth.
by SwatSwatter
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 7:30 PM
CBS 5 and the Chronicle never said a word about why the cops felt like they couldn't wait to go in.

As for the vests, they have never been capable of protecting against armor piercing ammo, such as a .308 or 30-06. Even a small .22 caliber bullet can pierce all 26 layers of a kevlar vest because the small diameter gives it a piercing ability. But a .308 (a typical deer hunting rifle) has more powder behind it and is much more destructive because it will pierce with a larger diameter and more force. It's not clear yet what kind of bullets killed these cops, but the vests would have been no help at all with many guns out there.
by stoked
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 7:37 PM
Dude,

This is such great news, I mean except for the person who wasn't a cop that was shot.
by RAUL (Curly ) estremera
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 7:37 PM
My Turn- and while speaking about this, I am speaking about what Malcomx said about an historic
























MY TURN- I have read all of the posts- some from so called anarchists, angry oakland youth, The 'jest be simple' preachers , as well as cloaked police agents talking about the humane rights of other police agents. And so it is now my endeavour to adress most of these posts. First of all lets look at the social contract of OUR society---- All this sheist is supposed to be predicated on the supossition that all men are created EQUAL. This means EQUAl PROTECTION UNDER THE LAW. If for 300 or more odd years Black, brown and other people of color have not had EQUAL PROTECTION UNDER THE U.S. LAWS. And we have been attacked by those very persons who are supposed to protect us under the laws, Then why does it anger all you mother fuckers when we have NO OTHER CHOICE but to take the law into our OWN hands to GET JUSTICE. TO protect ourselves from all types of aggressors. For one hundred or so years we have complained and brought our claims to courts which have exonerated us time and time again- claiming that we are murdered in our own homes. That we areTIRED of being racially profiled in our homes, vehicles etc. How many times and examples do we have to bring to everyday americans that we are tired of being the VICTIMS of driving while being brown and black. Of being beaten in prisons and alleys by YOUR racist shibboleths. When the British did the same to you, didn't you stand up to fight for the right of your beliefs to be free in your persons. What the fuck makes you all more perfect and better than us?Americans of all weight and freight have NEVER come to grips of the reality of their racial sins. So when a set of white cops stops one of us and begin their inhuman harrangement of us. How long are we supposed to look down to the ground and do the the step and fetch it shuffle? How many times are we supposed to drop to the ground in our Sanday best because the foul traducers in blue fear us as human beings?
I for one am tired of these racist attacks upon my person, and i'm convinced that so was this young brother when he was pulled over. We are ALL tired of their probing fingers racist attacks and executions....
The scars I have on the back of my head from racist police batons are enough proof for me to know that when the time comes, I WIIL indeed throw down. And I don't expect white people to understand this. Just like, after this shooting of the traducers in blue I don't understand how ANYONE in any skin color could see this as some fucking pre meditated murder of policemen. Indeed I will now go out on the limb and say that ALL Oakland Black youth should begin to arm themselves and defend their lives against the murderers in blue who's job HAS BEEN to serve the rich and protect THEIR property. Come what may, the time has come for us to preserve our own lives. And for you fucking bullshit liberals to understan that- It bees that way some times- as it was with NAT TURNER. IF we bleed, THEN THEY CAN BLEED...........
My name is Raul (curly) Estremera, and I don't need to hide under some gutless Pseudomyn.







understanding
by Anon E. Mouse
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 7:43 PM
I don't think the cops have sleeping gas bombs. And it sounds like at least one of the SWAT officers was shot in the face; they don't have bulletproof face masks. As for why they went in? I don't know.

I do know that this article and many of the comments are asinine and unproductive. If you really want police reform, you don't celebrate when cops get killed. Instead, you express sympathy for their loss and leave it at that. You certainly don't start chanting that's payback for Oscar Grant.
by tax dodger
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 7:59 PM
You guessed it: a lavish and extravagant funeral procession throughout the streets of the bay area shutting down highways, businesses, cops will be paid from all over California and the nation to converge upon Oakland in a multimillion dollar show of force. None of them will be protecting us, but we will be paying for all of them at very steep overtime rates. Not to mention the cost of fuel we'll all pay for when they drive from all over Hell to get here.

Waste? Do the funerals need to be that lavish? You decide.
by A Mother
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 8:11 PM
"Confrontation that could have ended with one death turns into four."

How do you figure? Mixon shot two cops. Then shot two more as they killed him. I think adding up lives is pretty important, though you seem to think it's quaint.

In your haste to react and twist this story to your own ends, you do no better than the people you accuse of "reacting" in haste. And I feel sure you are writing this in the comfort of your own home, not with your life threatened.

Easy commentary in hard times--you can be proud and self righteous while five lives are gone.

by a father
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 8:22 PM
"Confrontation that could have ended with one death turns into four."

This concept is very simple. Of the first two cops who were shot, only one has died so far. The other two cops would not have died if they didn't storm into the apartment and instead used negotiation tactics. Similarly, the young man that those cops killed would not have been killed. So the cops caused 4 deaths when it could have been one.
by rabbit ears
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 8:35 PM
It's about time someone wrote something without another pro-police slant. I wondered the same thing about them rushing inside like that.
by Oakland
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 8:44 PM
Cop's SWAT cops wear t-shirts that say 'two to the chest one to the face', its called a double-tap in the business, you shoot two in succession to the chest, and a third to the face. This way even if the person is wearing a vest they're still dead, but a head shot is harder than a chest shot, and because of recoil a gun tends to rise.

What's interesting about the initial shooting is the cops where shot in the face, this is commonly known these days that cops where vests, thus the shooter didn't waste even trying to wear a vest. Often vests contain a ceramic plate that will stop any kind of bullet.

However a direct shot to a face any kind of bullet can cause death.

Most interesting in this case is that that Mixon was well trained, that he was quick and issued direct shots to the face. The type of gun used had nothing to do with the outcome, this is a case of pure martial training.

Indoors cops are trained to keep the muzzle down, outdoors high. Again upon entry in the room, all the suspect had to do was start face shots and continue horizontally, it takes time to get the muzzle up for the cops to recognize their shot.

In training a cop enters an indoor room, muzzle down and looks for bad-guys, but he also has to look for a mother holding a baby, in that instant the bad-guy can do face shots and get a few off. Most likely 2-3 cops were in the room to clear it, not all even looking in the same direction. A patient shooter could have been waiting in the closet and got off 2-3 head shots while the cops in their helmets were turning around towards the closet.

Regarding the street, the cops are used to pulling people over, but obviously the shooter had been training for such an occasion, and pulled off his shots before the cops were even ready.

My guess is all this will completely change the way cops pull cars over in Oakland , and the way that SWAT teams clear buildings.

Remember the PERP had just got out of prison, and got his PHD in shooting, robbery, a little money bought an assault rifle and some pistols,...

What's interesting about this story is the outcome. Nationally SWAT teams will now shoot-first and look for women&children later, and on the street you'll most likely see cops covered during routine stops.

Welcome to ameriKKKa.

What came first? The totalitarian state or the criminal?? Why was mixon willing to die rather than going back to prison?

The essence of government is beating, killing and imprisoning, those asking for more cops and government, are asking for more totalitarianism.
by a
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 9:08 PM
BRAVO


this person said it 100% perfectly!

i am not feeling sorry for these police, it is a shame life was lost, but what raul said is perfect.

the SAME people who will defend these police and talk about other being inhumane, are probably the exact SAME people who when other black youths, murdered by police, call the youth "thugs" and make other racist remarks.

by Maya
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 9:41 PM
I would ask you to be very dubious of claims by writers trying to make a connection to the police killings as being retribution for what happened to Oscar Grant. Ask yourselves what agenda that would serve?

What happened in was both cases were tragedies. The police must not believe that the community is their enemies, nor should the community believe the police are their enemies because both of us are the same community. Yes, there are some bad eggs, both in the community and on the force, but by insulting all the men and women in uniform just will serve to alienate potential allies should martial law come our way.
by b
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 9:49 PM
it took me reading like 5 corporate articles before i could even find out that mixon himself was also killed. for all these cops and politicians and journalists who supposedly care about life, it's eminently clear that they really only care about the lives of authorities, usually white people.

and of course, no corporate article i've read so far has mentioned that 364 days of the year, violence goes the other way.

thank g indybay is on the google news! thank you.
the headline should read as above. you guys are out of your minds to try and paint this as a "woe is the black man" portrait. mixon was pulled over, knew that he had blown his parole and out of fear and anger, shot the cops to try and avoid prison.

to try and compare this to what happened to oscar grant is completely backwards, and i am stunned that people are attempting to excuse this incident by bringing up what happened on new year's day. we should not sully mr. grant's name or the significance of his death by trying to explain mixon's actions as a consequence of the grant shooting. oscar grant and the four fallen officers ALL deserve their justice.

indybay: while i appreciate the non-mainstream perspective, to claim that this article is free of bias is absurd and just makes you guys look stupid. i can only be ashamed for you.

by anarchist
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 10:50 PM
There is a major difference between the liberals view of police and the radicals view. The radical understands that the police are the enemy of the poor. Liberals tend to be middle class, the police are still fairly helpful to them. Cops kill people all the time, some armed and fighting back, others unarmed and pressed against the concrete. You look at this like the war it is and these officers are just enemy combatants.
by ironicjustice
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 10:51 PM
i know some people don't want admit it, but am i the only one thinkin this was a comeuppance?
by nada
Sunday Mar 22nd, 2009 10:59 PM
Yep, what's happening here will just get worse. It's sad that people think it's racist. It has nothing to do with race, we have a black president for God's sake. It's just plain stupid that these people think it has to do with race, and that's thier uneducated downfall. The stupid 'everyone is out to get me' mentality plagues all races. The black community here needs to realize that it has to do with class, not race. The change needs to happen from within. Make your kids study. Make them go to school. If you want to empower people, black, white, brown, whatever, educate them. The family that this guy is from are statistically all going to end up in prison. Anyone that posts here and blames it on race is a complete idiot.

The change has to come from within the community!!!!!!
by Johnny
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 6:02 AM
Screw it then. If you don't want the cops, let them pull out. Once the riots start, you will be on your hands and knees begging for them to restore order. it's always like that.
by Tigger
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 7:21 AM
Mr Mixon got exactly what he asked for.
by TANAY
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 7:58 AM
FROM, THE INCEPTION OF SLAVERY BLACKS HAVE BEEN TARGETS OF WHITE-SUPREMACY ON THE NATIONS POLICE FORCES, IT, WAS THE POLICE WHO LET SLAVE OWNERS KILL THEIR SLAVES!! IT, WAS THE POLICE, WHO RETURNED RUNAWAY SLAVES, TO BE HUNG!! THE, POLICE ARE KILLING BLACKS, BECOSE THAT WHAT THEY DO, THESE RACIST IN POLICE UNIFORM ARE A DISGRACE TO THIS NATION, THEY ARE A HINDRANCE TO PEACE IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY, ITS, NO WONDER THAT THEY GOT KILLED, NO, COS THEY HAVE MURDERED THOUSANDS OF UNARMED, YOUNG BLACK MEN, THE WHITE POLICE VIEWS ARE SLANTED, THEIR WHITE INFERIORITY COMPLEX IS THEIR MAJOR PROBLEM THEIR XENOPHOBIC WORLD VIEW MAKES THEM DANGEROUS TO BLACKS, RACISM IS A MENTAL DISEASE, IT AFFECTS ONE,S MIND AND THE POWER TO BE, RATIONAL, BUT, WHEN THESE, WHITE RACIST GET AMONG, THEMSELVES, THEY SLANDER BLACKS, ! THEY CALL, THEM !! NIGGERS!!, ONE, MUST UNDERSTAND THE WARP MIND OF THE COPS MOST , LIKE 99,9 % ARE NAZIS, BASICALLY ALL THEY WANT TO DO, IS TAKE A BLACK MANS LIFE, OR FEMALE, OR YOUTH AND EVEN 9=11 KIDS, THEIR, VIEW IS TWISTED, NOW, HISTORICALLY WHITE MEN HAVE ALWAYS HATED THE BLACK MAN, HE, FEARS THE BLACK MAN, WHY? WHY DO RACIST HATE BLACK PEOPLE? ENVY, JEALOUSY, & FEAR, THIS FEAR IS THE BASIC ELEMENT OF THE RACIST MIND, A MINDLESS RACIST COP WILL MURDER A BLACK AND FEEL NOTHING, THEN GO HOME AND KISS HIS WIFE & KIDDS, THEN GO OUT WITH HIS COP BUDDIES, AND BRAGG, ABOUT HIS, MURDER , WHILE THE VICTIMS FAMILY GRIEVE THE DEATH OF A LOVE ONE, THIS IS THE SAME ATTITUDE THE NAZIS HAD IN HITLER,S GERMANY, WHERE, MILLIONS, DIED AND THE NAZI DIDN,T GIVE A THOUGHT OF HIS MURDERS OR THE VICTIMS, AS, LONG AS WE LIVE WITH RACIST IN THE NATIONS POLICE FORCES, THERE, WILL NEVER BE A REAL PEACE, OBAMA, SPOKE ABOUT CHANGE, WELL, A GOOD PLACE TO START TRUE CHANGE WOULD BE THE POLICE AND THEIR POLICIES OF MURDER AGAINST BLACK PEOPLE
by John Snook
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 8:36 AM
I can't believe that people are blaming the cops for this.

Is this really the social justice issue you want to get behind? Do you really feel good about this?
by Jairo
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 8:55 AM
Ok, I'm as liberal as any of you. I am Mexican, so I know where this disdain of police come from, but you honestly think they should have negotiated with a man who had just killed two cops!?
by McRen
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 8:58 AM
It says it was his car, a "new" car he recently bought and he shot them while they were checking his papers. Like I said, in my experience when they pull me over they ALWAYS run my plate first. Also, across the street from where I live, the po-po pull over people running red lights and turning in front of pedestrians all day on Friday's. When I am bored I have filmed them doing this and they always do the "woop-woop" on the person, the person pulls over and they sit in the car or on the bike and RUN THE PLATE FIRST, then approach the car, ALWAYS! Either they didn't run it, or he didn't show up as wanted. Something still needs to be addressed here. Also, they are saying "all the neighbors" knew where he was hiding, was this on the news within minutes? How did all the neighbors know he was wanted so fast? Or did the just assume cuz he was running like a maniac and heard the police activities?

Yes, to the person who asked about the gas they use. They could have shot many different substances into the apt to make him come out. They still would have killed him though, but he would have been too discombobulated to do anything to them. Also, it shows you how they don't care about the lives of citizens as they burst in and could have harmed others in the apt.
by McRen
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 9:10 AM
Some of us are not liberal, we are radical. Your life experience has been different than ours, especially your dealings with the police, it is as simple as that.

What's so hard to understand? If they would have tried to negotiate first, two officer's might still be alive. Just because you try to negotiate first does not mean you are soft on crime, it means you value life and are trying everything you can to save lives first, maybe your own and these officers who are your so called "family!"

Also, are you saying that since he killed two cops, all bets are off? It's ok for the police to come in and do ANYTHING, no matter how egregious to kill him? Unfortunately, that is how the police think and it's why things like this will continue to happen. That George Bush mentality.
by 1morepoint
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 9:25 AM
Jairo, you are also forgetting that when he was inside the apartment, he was only a suspect. He was only ALLEGED and believed to have shot two cops. It wasn't certain, and it wasn't for the police to decide to simply go in and kill him. That's not what we want from police. We want negotiation and patience, not reckless thugs and haste and retaliatory killings. And besides, look what that haste got them.
by Mytake
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 9:41 AM
I think the cops rushed in when they did because they knew the decisionmakers higher up in the chain of command were about to take over the operation and try to create an opportunity for the suspect to come out voluntarily. But the low level decisionmakers wanted to get revenge and kill the suspect, so they hastily gathered a group of swat team members to storm the apartment and kill the suspect. There was no reason for such haste. The cops had no reason to believe that the suspect could go anywhere or that he was holding any hostages. Even if they thought he had hostages, they should have attempted negotiation and other tactics first. Time was on their side. Sometimes it even takes days. The failure to use time wisely is why the operation was botched. And we all know now that it was botched.
by johnny law
( cabobs36072 [at] mypacks.net ) Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 9:51 AM
as an officer in the bay area, these comments are out of line and sick. these four officers were executed by a parolee with an assault weapon. these officers , if you took the time to find out, did not violate protocol in any way. and to link this to the oscar grant shooting way out of touch with reality. this just goes to show why the bay area is in the state it is in because of people like you...how you look in the mirror is every morning is beyond me.
by johhny law
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 9:58 AM
i love how tanay now has to bring slavery into this ...where is the nexus. tell me how these two items are connected TANAY? some of the biggest slave traders by the way were africans americans. how is there a connections. again, another youth who should have stayed in school
by fantastic89
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 10:28 AM
or maybe just a plant to stir things up. totally irrational. and no concern for human life that this gunman was endangering. he had already killed two in cold blood, i think he would have been perfectly willing to kill many more without the slightest hesitation. to suggest the Gunman may have killed in self-defense is just insane. this whole post may have been planted by anti-copwatch people to dishonor the work of copwatch.
by Sam
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 10:56 AM
I think some people forget that these same cops who were "gunned down" are the kinds of cops who show up at anti-war actions in full riot gear and guns and clubs and gleefully taunt and then attack peaceful people routinely. These are people who take off their badges and wear masks and helmets to be as anonymous as possible when they embark upon a campaign to use excessive force against passive activists who defend the planet. Does anyone believe that these four cops would not have been on the front lines of a massive police-state-like show of force to intimidate protestors of the Oscar Grant murder? I think they would have been there without question.
Some alleged cop posted that there's no connection between this weekend's shootings and the murder of Oscar Grant . However many of his ''comrades '' disagree. They're trying to portray Johannes Mehserle as someone ''defending society '' from ''violent criminals '' like Oscar Grant ! (Read the comments at the SF Chron and other websites . Raw racist stuff )
The fact is that there is a gross difference in how this is portrayed in the corporate media and how murders by police are covered. The SF Chron actually had a article about Mehserle as a "' Gentle Giant ''! You can bet there won't be any sympathic articles about the shooter this weekend >
by Maya
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 11:03 AM
I wonder about this posting and the people who are commenting about the police getting what they deserve.

Are these people provocateurs who are posting with the intent to stir something up with the police? As I mentioned earlier, what agenda does that serve?

The elites are planning to setup martial law in this country and they would just love to set up the conditions to make the police believe the community is their enemy and vice versus.


by Grisha
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 11:11 AM
As near as we can tell, what the cop in the apartment knew was someone was inside the closed closet shooting through it and had iit two officers. For all the shooting offier knew, it could have been his great aunt Tilly in there but that wouldent have changed the reality that if he didn't return fire he was about to be dead
by Truth prevails
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 11:20 AM
If it doesn't conform to the mainstream press, it must be a conspiracy to do the following:

make the alternative press look bad,
create tension in the community,
promote the opposite agenda that it purports to speak for,
discredit copwatch,
make police think it's us against them,
discredit Oscar Grant and the people protesting his murder,
etc.

Give me a break! The cops wanted to kick some ass after the first shooting on Saturday, so they rushed in, stormed the building, busted the door down, were obviously unprepared for the consequences, and because of that recklessness, it got two more of them killed. Of course the guy was going to shoot at that point because he knew the cops only goal in the apartment was to kill him. Who wouldn't shoot the cops at that point? At that point, it's your last hope to survive!

by fuckUandyourMama2
( fuckjohnnylaw [at] gmail.com ) Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 11:26 AM
It's the hate that hate made. We are sick over how you guys treat the Rodney Kings, Eleanor Bumpus's and Oliver Grant's of the world. What's sick is using our taxpayer money to kill us with impunity.
by Sam
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 11:28 AM
The point is that the cops should not have entered that apartment yet. They should have stayed outside and kept it surrounded and tried using different non-violent tactics for hours or days if necessary to get the suspect to come out voluntarily. What's the hurry? Things were stable. The other two cops were already shot, and that was over with. This was a stable situation that was escalated when police decided prematurely and unnecessarily to raid the apartment with assault weapons.
by fuckjonnylaw&hismama
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 11:29 AM
I was typing fast.
by reporting
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 11:35 AM
but even that is buried on page 10 today:


>Why go in?

>The analysis will probably focus first on one critical question, the experts said:
>why the SWAT team decided to enter the apartment rather than seal the building and wait outside.

>Oakland police have not yet answered that question. There are several possible answers

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2009/03/23/MNCT16L5SI.DTL


then the Chron goes on to offer various possible explanations, none of which include any fault on the part of the cops, things like "maybe they didn't know he had a powerful gun" and "they can't wait and make a plan." the one about no plan is rich

when will the Chron start doing some reporting and stop parroting whatever cops tell them

the post here on indybay was digging at the obvious mistake before anyone in the corporate media dared to look at it, and the corporate media will when they feel like it's safe, but people come on here and profess to be so upset and when the chron later does it not a peep
by lases
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 11:40 AM
The police may have aggrevated the situation by thirsting for blood but ultimately Lovelle did not have to shoot the two traffic cops in the head. Most likely he knew there was a warrant out for his arrest and panicked when the cops began to ID him. If he had surrendered there in his car as thousands who get picked up do none of this would have happened.

There are primary causes and there are contributing causes.
by Carl "CJ" Johnson
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 11:42 AM
Gotta love the gun lobby.
by human_101
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 12:04 PM
SERIOUSLY. What is anyone doing with an AK-47 in his car or his sister's apartment?
by adding my comments
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 12:10 PM
The failure to surround the building and have the patience to wait something out has cost the police two of their own and the life of Mr. Mixon. I'm not an expert in police procedure but it seems better to slow things down, negotiate and try to come to some resolution rather than taking immediate lethal action. I guess you could call the SWAT team brave but I think they were also foolish. But that is america and its new american police military. It doesn't matter whether it is Oakland or Baghdad. They just run over people and this is what happens. I guess immediate action fits the high adreneline lets act now way of thinking. It is amazing how time and patience can sometimes make things work out better.
by Raul(Curly) Estremera
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 3:08 PM
WHEN THEY COME THROUGH YOUR DOOR IN THEIR JACKBOOTS, then the gray area of your thinking will vanish quickly. In pre nazi germany even intellectual European jews, especially zionists stood behind the myth of the so called infallible policemen who claimed to be organizing to save the so called fatherland, and as I've said- when they came through their doors in the night and carted them to the gas chambers, it was too late. We are reaching the boiling point where what happened in Germany was but a soap box performance of what is to come.....
by RAUL (CURLY)
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 4:04 PM
YOU ARE A FOUL depraved TRADUCER who can usually be found masquerading as the victim of an unprovoked attack. You and your tripe have filled the prison industrial complex with persons of color- especially with BLACK people. You brutalized
Rodney King, Abner Louima then sodomized him, murdered Oscar Grant, Tyisha miller, Patrick dorismond,- OVERKILLED Amadou Diallo and many other people. When you are unhappy with your marks here, you join BLACKWATER and murder thousands of Iraquis,While your tripe in Israel play the foregone roles of nazis on the palestinian people.

Keep hiding behind this bullshit law enforcement crap cause your days are numbered. Every empire has its day, and every dog, and every pig. Today a confused nation is coming to grips with many realities after the wholesale murder of the Bush doctrine and in having made a mistake in giving YOU free reign over CITIZENS- To cajole, incarcerate and murder them. If north americans hold true to their claim of "justice for all" soon they will rage undamned- and you all will walk the plank....or the earth will be levelled in our efforts to bring you to justice. Since you pigs aren't capable of understanding the lessons of history, just keep watching the seas to the south, as that wave of liberation will soon reach these shores. YOU STAND ACCUSED!.
Add a Comment
by ask the NRA
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 4:17 PM
and ask republicans who let the assault weapons ban expire

ask democrats who are not pursuing renewing it now
by LONG LIVE THE SPIRIT OF LOVELLE MIXON!!
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 4:53 PM
***************************************

LONG LIVE THE SPIRIT OF LOVELLE MIXON!!

***************************************
by August
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 5:13 PM
No one is commenting on how the SWAT TEAM firebombed a 16 year old girl in the Oakland shootout. The explosive device made contact with the child and upon exploding caused bodily harm; instead of immediate medical attention the Oakland SWAT TEAM arrested the young child and interrogated her.
by Alex Gouvin
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 5:18 PM
I've seen lots of terrible articles in the news in my time; however, to quote Chef from South Park, this has got to be the most ridiculous load of pig crap I have EVER SEEN!!! How the hell does him being black, white, purple, green, orange, or any other color, excuse him for murdering four cops over a stupid traffic violation?? In fact, what could POSSIBLY excuse anybody killing four people for no reason at all? Besides, it's hard to be careful and non-violent when you're getting shot to death with an AK-47, now isn't it? I don't even know why I'm wasting my time here... You obviously just hate all cops and think that they are all racist, powerhungry rednecks (which a lot are, but still). The way you disrespect the cops that died here and treat the murderer as if he were some hero that killed four rapists, murderers or pedophiles as opposed to people just trying to do their job and make California a safer place, I will just put you on the same level as the 20 protesters cheering on that cop-killer. Good job trying to humanize someone that murdered four people over literally nothing at all. All those cops died for was a traffic violation. I actually want to move to California from my pathetic, boring state of Connecticut someday, too. Thanks for giving me a reason to find a spot far, FAR away from Oakland if I ever get that chance.
by Alex Gouvin
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 5:24 PM
For anybody that wants to hate my guts for my previous comment, read this, please: I think Oscar Grant's death was complete bullshit, and the cops that shot him to death should serve life in prison or worse, as well, so don't worry about me being a racist or a cop lover. Just wanted to put that out there before I get verbally mutilated.
by August
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 5:25 PM
Oakland has 4 great reasons for CELEBRATING !
by Perspective
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 6:14 PM
There are known knowns and unknown inknowns, etc. Some known knowns would include:

1. There is a lot of history behind these events. Everyone is carrying a lot of baggage.
2. Thus far, we don't really know much about what happened in this case.
3. However, we do know some of the history behind other similar events.
4. With respect to cops 3 and 4, the Res Ipsa Loquitur doctrine strongly suggests that the cops were sloppy. That they may have been "emotional" should be irrelevant as their training should have better prepared them for precisely that kind of situation.
5. Bernard Madoff will never ever do as much time as Mixon had already done.
6. Even for the occasional white collar criminal who does go to prison, he does time in a Club Fed, i.e., "No rape allowed." Other convicts do time in hell-holes where most, if not all, bets are off.
7. While we are all distracted by these events, our government is looting all of us including both the criminals from the ghettos and the racist cops. Note that even racist cops are working class, taxpaying chumps to the A.I.G. corporate bandits. One difference between the criminals from the ghettos and racist cops is that the the criminals from the ghetto KNOW they are being ripped off by the establishment while "racist cops" still don't get it.
8. More than two thousand years ago, Julius Caesar followed the rule to "divide and conquer." The establishment still does that. And, while the criminals from the ghetto understand that, racist cops still don't understand that.
by OTOH
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 6:43 PM
To take out four cops before going down... I mean, that was one hell of a good warrior as far as warriors go.

I don't know his reasons. He might have been fed up with the crap cops pulled on him in the past. He might have had perfectly valid personal reasons for doing what he did. But to take out four, including two from the SWAT team who were on the offensive, that guy was one bad ass dude.

I'll tell you what. If I had to go to battle with someone, I'd want a guy like that right next to me! I don't care what anyone says about him. I'd have wanted that guy covering me.
by s hemsworth
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 6:49 PM
I have a son who is a oakland police officer and his inocent seargant was killed by a crazy man. If you have never been a relative of a police officer, you have absolutely no right to open your mouth. I lived through the black panthers in the 60's get the facts right.
by swatswatter
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 6:54 PM
There's no such thing as an innocent cop in Oakland. It's a terrorist organization. You're either with the terrorists, or you're with the forces of good.
by Oaklander
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 7:01 PM
RE: "I have a son who is a oakland police officer and his inocent seargant was killed by a crazy man. If you have never been a relative of a police officer, you have absolutely no right to open your mouth. I lived through the black panthers in the 60's get the facts right."

Someone has no right to open his mouth? I hope you didn't teach your son about rights, but I suspect that you did and I suspect the he also believes people who aren't cops (or relatives--good God!) also have no rights to free speech. I hope your son has learned a valuable lesson here not to get too cocky on the job. Because there are many more Mixon's where he came from, and they haven't been too happy with people like your son.
by a
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 7:56 PM
Good thing he got those pigs off the street before the got a chance to kill anymore innocent people like Oscar Grant or you or me. I will put flowers on this guy's grave.

RIP
by J
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 8:09 PM
Why did Mixon have a rifle in his vehicle? To protect himself from the jack-booted thugs that suppress our rights under direct orders from the state. This, my friends, is the beginning of the coming revolution. Mixon is a true patriot, and the rest of us are the sheep that sit back and let the system screw us everyday.
by roger
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 8:34 PM
news said they had *NO* communication from inside the house for over an hour, they don't know for sure he's in there and hasn't gotten away, so they go in.
by e
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 8:55 PM
is this website a cause for progress or hate? reading these comments it seems like you got a whole lot of haters here. won't get far with that attitude and it brings down the integrity of this website.
by anotherview
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 9:27 PM
A lot of people in Oakland don't like cops, and that's the fault of the cops. It's not the fault of people like Mixon. It's the fault of the cops. And it's not just Oakland. It's across this entire country. Cops have been acting like thugs, and they bring disrespect upon themselves when they act like thugs. Just go to one big anti-war protest or a WTO meeting and related protest, and you'll see plenty of cop thugs in action. And once you see that, hearing about a thing like this might become a lot less upsetting to you, too. In fact, it might even give you some pleasure. But that's the cops' fault, because they act like thugs.
by Dutch
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 9:46 PM
You're kidding, right?
Sure, some cops are bad, no question about it.
But in East-Oakland (and I live there!!!), don't talk to me about racial profiling. People get pulled over for traffic violations. Period. About 85 % of the people here are Black. So yes, Black people get pulled over for traffic violations. Live with it.

Lovelle Mixon was one of the poisons that bring down our community. Period. I'm sad to see that some other thugs see him as a hero. Some sad fucker of a hero, if you ask me.
There's some serious issues going on in our community - one of them drugs, one of them guns.

We're killing our own community. This time we cannot blame it on the White Guy. No matter who's in Office. Our community is ours, and we let it go to shit. Most of us are scared to go out.
Why? Because there might be some 10-year-old effin punk with a gun.
Where is the Mother?
Where is the Father?

Tell me, please......my community is turning into chaos and anarchy.
My neighbors and I are scared, just living here.

Let's join together and rebuild, reclaim out 'Hood!!
by incensed
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 10:07 PM
Oops, that's right, they were the ones behind him.
by me too
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 10:08 PM
I'll believe that the day the police code of silence shatters. Good cops to me are a myth until the supposed good ones begin to rat out the bad ones, or to even intervene when the bad ones are doing something they shouldn't be doing (hurting people, false reports, etc).

As it is now, some cops beat and kill and continue to get away with it. Other cops don't say shit. That makes those you might call "good cops" complicit in the crimes of the bad ones.

Until the day all cops demand full integrity in their ranks rather than continuing the CYB mentality they have now, I have no patience for talk of good cops and bad cops.
by Raul (Curly)
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 10:47 PM
iT WAS CALLED THE BLACK PANTHER PARTY FOR DEFENSE MR. Shithemsworth nazi. All of our lives we have had to DEFEND ourselves from you, your son, your mad dogs in the south, your DREDD SCOTT sepreme court decision, your sellout bluecoats who helped decimate indian tribes, your murdering, shoe in the face wearing fuckin Bush and co.

I don't know if you pigs are just born blind with racism, or if you learn skull thickness at the academy. It isn't that you are white, it is that you continue to kill citizens, and in turn an angry citizen has killed yours. I am not speaking about vengance or any such occasion. I am as enraged as lavelle was. STOP FUCKIN RACIAL PROFILING US- Get it through your thick skull that in the coming years citizens are going to no longer continue to over arm your asses with military hardware so you can use it on the citizenry. Try and read this SLOW and easy. and tell your son that we ALL have a right to say these things to you- it's called FREE SPEECH!
by Raul (Curly)
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 11:01 PM
iT WAS CALLED THE BLACK PANTHER PARTY FOR DEFENSE MR. Shithemsworth nazi. All of our lives we have had to DEFEND ourselves from you, your son, your mad dogs in the south, your DREDD SCOTT sepreme court decision, your sellout bluecoats who helped decimate indian tribes, your murdering, shoe in the face wearing fuckin Bush and co.

I don't know if you pigs are just born blind with racism, or if you learn skull thickness at the academy. It isn't that you are white, it is that you continue to kill citizens, and in turn an angry citizen has killed yours. I am not speaking about vengance or any such occasion. I am as enraged as lavelle was. STOP FUCKIN RACIAL PROFILING US- Get it through your thick skull that in the coming years citizens are going to no longer continue to over arm your asses with military hardware so you can use it on the citizenry. Try and read this SLOW and easy. and tell your son that we ALL have a right to say these things to you- it's called FREE SPEECH!
by Gaily Ezer of Berkeley Copwatch
( berkeleycopwatch [at] yahoo.com ) Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 11:05 PM
Berkeley Copwatch does not endorse "copwatch13's" statement. In fact we do not know who "copwatch13" is.
Berkeley Copwatch is committed to tactical nonviolence and is defined by the act of copwatching - observing and documenting police while attempting to deescalate and calm the situation.
by R.I.P.
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 11:26 PM
lovelle-mixon.jpg
lovelle-mixon.jpg

by McRen
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 11:26 PM
Too much watchin' going on and not enough action.
by joey
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 11:31 PM
can someone find and post me a large size pic of lovelle? I want to make a shepard fairey like image of him. That pic above is cool, I just need it larger size. I will keep looking too.

Thanks.
by hmmmm...
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 11:36 PM
...A victim, to be sure... The problem with Indybay is that it doesn't seem to know how to divorce fact from propoganda. Sometimes cops actually do good things, and sometimes rapists on no bail warrants are scumbags.
by AVNevis
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 11:36 PM
How about mayor Dellums selects an area of the city where there will be no police for a certain area of time. Ample notice will be given so that anyone who wishes to live in a police-free zone will be given that opportunity.

After that point, no officers from any agency will be allowed to operate in that zone. No responses to calls, no investigations, no arrests, nothing. It will truly be an area free from the "police state."

Then in a week, we can see how it worked. Sound like a plan?
by Copwatch13
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 11:37 PM
Just to clarify, I wrote the article to supply news, not to get endorsements. The term "Copwatch" has been around a lot longer than the organization has had a presence in Berkeley. I've worked with others in Copwatch orgs, but not in Berkeley. They're all over the country. I like what Copwatch orgs do generally. Regarding the article, most people I know who are involved in other Copwatch orgs probably would like it, but I wouldn't ask for an endorsement for a news article. If I were going to run for Alameda County Sheriff, however, I would ask for Berkeley Copwatch's endorsement. :-)
by Just Think
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 11:46 PM
Typical...someone defending a rutless killer. I lived in East Oakland for three years while attending college, during which I was car jacked, mugged, and witness to a horrific murder. Being a Police Officer isn't easy anywhere, add Oakland to the equation and it becomes Hell. Why don't you get your facts straight? Police attempted to communicate with Mixon for several hours with no success. They entered the building prepared for the worst, but who shot who first? Mixon shot at the SWAT officers at which point they returned fire in defense of themselves and the surrounding neighbors. Take a step back and just forget for one minute that you are in the center of the most delusionally liberal place in the country and take into consideration that the ethnicity of the suspect was irrelevant to the fact that HE chose to shoot and kill four officers. Had he been white, asian, hispanic or any other race, if the events occured in the same way, the end result would have been the same. Just wait until you are the victim of a tragic crime, police are here to serve and protect, and they selflessly do so each and everyday. I know that there are a few bad apples, there are in every profession, but never defend anyone for killing a cop doing his job, it's tasteless.
by trustfund
Monday Mar 23rd, 2009 11:55 PM
It was a tragic loss, and his family will now be victimized and negatively impacted by the press. Perhaps a trust fund should be set up to help his immediate relatives counter the negative effects that a one-sided press will have upon them. Maybe some of those funds could be used to market a positive image of the young man and his other family members.
by Defender
Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 12:22 AM
lovellemixon.jpg
lovellemixon.jpg

You're a legend, my man:
by Sensible
Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 12:56 AM
Procedure is:
Felon at large, potentially at "x" location.

Do you think this person is going to answer their phone? Do you think criminals should be allowed to use their home as a shielding bubble invulnerable to everything in life? Their tip was strong enough to believe that said felon was in there, so they had to investigate. They were probably clearing the house when said person opened fire on them as an oppertunity. The police received a "TIP" he was there, thus got a fast warrant and entered to check if the individual was or was not there. How are they to negotiate with someone who may not be there? Use common sense please.

This article is flat out disgusting, and it's a shame the internet is able to publish such disgusting filth as this. Whoever is the author of this should be ashamed. Ashamed of their poor journalistic skills, and the lack of common sense. It's like you have an agenda to ignite a civil war. You disgust me, and you shouldn't be allowed to speak your mind as any sense of reporter, who people look to for a properly well balanced, factual story.

This individual wasn't a hero. With as many crimes against him, failing to report to parole officers, being a potential suspect in a rape case, with a prior record, this guy is a hero? No. He's not a hero, he's just another reason to respect those who put their lives on the line to protect your own and others lives. This guy is just another number to add to the list of reasons to validate having authority figures out there, and it gives said authority figures more respect and appreciation from the majority of citizens of this country than anything else.

You want less police? You want less authority. Then stop promoting people like this who hurt society more than anything.
by waiing for all the facts
Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 9:31 AM
Portrait of a suspected rapist, is more like it. And people are celebrating this man's actions? Seems that he shot the cops to avoid facing up to his crimes of rape. That is the definition of a coward.
by More Sensible
Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 9:42 AM
If the cops thought felon x was in the apartment but weren't sure, they did not need to rush in to get their answer. They could have waited, and obviously should have waited. In fact, they apparently didn't know how many people were inside. For all they knew, there were 5 other people with Mixon willing to take them out as the cops bursted through the front door. To burst in without even knowing such things is reckless and ignores basic rules of officer safety. There were so many reasons to wait, and so many ways to learn more before entering.

The supervisory cops who made the decision to go in at that time endangered all the cops who were part of that SWAT operation. Even more importantly, they endangered the lives of innocent members of the public who lived nearby or inside the apartment--such as the 16 year old girl they injured with their grenades.

I'm pretty certain that the motor cops also violated officer safety procedures. Did they run the plate before making the stop? Did they approach Mixon's vehicle cautiously and in accordance with training? Did one cop wait with Mixon and keep his eye on him (watching his hands) while the other ran his license info at the motor unit? Did both cops ever turn their backs on Mixon? Did they "relax too soon"?

Officer safety was compromised in both incidents. The second was a case of hasty retaliation with some John Wayne syndrome along with failing to properly assess potential dangers.

The academies will discuss this incident in future classes, and the instructors will use these 4 cops' actions as examples of what NOT to do. But the training won't be new. All it will be is a new example to show why old lessons should not be ignored. These cops ignored those old lessons.
by All yours
Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 11:11 AM
Dammn, how low can you sink? Claiming solidarity with a punk who assaulted someone with a deadly weapon, murdered 4 humans, and quite possibly raped a woman?

All the anarchists in here suggesting he's a hero, a freedom fighter, responding to oppression by the po-po......and as it turns out, it's just a rapist shooting people he thinks are bustin him for rape.

Solidarity away; I prefer a shower after reading about this slime.
by rape allegations
Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 11:42 AM
They can say anything about him.
by No, really.
Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 11:47 AM
and it doesn't seem to slow anybody down about talking smack about them...
by mcRen
Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 11:52 AM
One has to ask at the time of the rape why didn't they run the DNA test then? Since they keep telling us over and over and over and over what a criminal he was, certainly they would have his DNA already on file.
by Seamus
( smcd17 [at] hotmail.com ) Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 11:53 AM
Wow that is some serious bias. From what was available in the news, the police could not safely evacuate the building because of the location of the apartment on the ground floor, and decided to go in. The apartment in question was not actually mr mixon's address of record, and there were also reports that the CDL he furnished the original officers was not legit so how would they actually know who he was? The fact that mr mixon was infact the responsible for killing the initial officers and then used an illegal weapon against the swat teams regardless of the self defense assertion speaks volumes about the situation. As a parolee mr mixon is not permitted to posses a gun...he had 2, and AK-47's are in fact generally legal to posses in California.


by Imager
Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 12:08 PM
lovellemixonhope.jpg
lovellemixonhope.jpg

This reflects a popular political sentiment
by All hail the might hero
Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 1:14 PM
The OPD found out late friday about the match. From the sfgate story...

"Officials at a state laboratory reported to police Friday that DNA from a rape that happened in late January or early February matched Mixon's, said Lt. Kevin Wiley, who oversees the police sex crimes unit.

Mixon's DNA was on file because of his conviction in 2002 for assault with a deadly weapon in an attempted carjacking in San Francisco, for which he served six years in prison. The state lab's match was reported Friday afternoon to an Oakland police sex crimes investigator, Officer Herb Webber, Wiley said."

Sucky timing on it though.

by Kevin
Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 1:15 PM
The article written above is at odd's with the publicly known facts of the case. Please revise your article to include the police attempted to communicate with the suspect, he was non responsive and the police were unable to safely remove the neighbors in the eight unit complex due to its design and due to the danger posed by the suspect. The police spent over an hour attempting to communicate with the suspect and planning a safe enterance to the building. The suspect opened fire and killed two officers, who did not return fire because they could not see the suspect and were concerned about hitting the other tenants. He was eventually killed by police when they located him lying on the floor of the closet firing through the walls. We are lucky only two police officers died and not more, not to mention other innocent civilians in the building. If you do not edit your article or reprint it with these known facts included then the public will know you are not interested in the truth.
by internal affairs
Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 1:37 PM
The department won't provide the public information about the complaint history of the dead cops, but it has no problem making all kinds of criminal allegations about Mr. Mixon. The fact is, there are several complaints on file about the dead cops.
by another concerned citizen
Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 1:47 PM
Just in case you're curious how weird your priorities are, here are recent stats from one year in our beloved Oaktown. Oh yeah, 2 of those car thefts were my car, stolen twice:

Oakland Murders 145
Oakland Rapes 306
Oakland Robberies 3534
Oakland Aggravated Assaults 3614
Oakland Burglaries 5070
Oakland Larceny/Thefts 8725
Oakland Motor Vehicle Thefts 10549
Oakland Arsons 307

Know what that adds up to? 32,250 crimes. Thirty-two thousand two hundred fifty.

Know how many police shootings happened that same year? 7. No extra zeroes, just 7. Not all fatal, either. And I won't even get into arguing with you whether any of those were justified, provoked, suicide by cop, etc.

In case you're curious, I got that number from this site I found, look familiar?: http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2009/02/07/18568854.php

Y'all got some bizarre priorities for people who claim to care about excessive violence in your community. Oh wait, I forgot, the police committed all of those 32,250 crimes. That's why they're so damn busy!
by Miss Laye of East O.
Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 1:54 PM
Long live the rapist. He violated a 12 year old girl and other people in his community. If that is who you want as a hero, you can have him. As a black women I don't respect or celebrate him because that could have been my daughter. The man he assaulted in SF on Mission & 6th could have been someone in my community.

Don't hold this waste of life up as a beacon of any sort of hope because he obviously wouldn't think twice about hemming your ass up in the streets.

So because these officers have complaints on file, mixon should be celebrated? GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE!!! He is no better.
by me too
Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 2:40 PM
your numbers alone are meaningless.

now, tell me how they stack up to to similar stats, per capita, with other major U.S. cities, and that's a start to actually learning something

even better, pile on top of that assembled data, what the police policies are in the cities with the lowest violent crime (and I mean people on people not property damage or theft), again PER CAPITA, and then tell us which parts of those policies are OPD following or not. THAT would be some useful information you could take to the City Council or the Chief of Police even

otherwise, you are just fear-mongering for the sake of fear-mongering. nothing productive but the same right-wing crap about gung-ho cops and militaries being the solution to everything. we have the highest rates of incarceration in America here in Cali, and indeed the world, and have for almost two decades and obviously that's not working

and I find it really hard to believe your car was stolen twice. I too have had a car stolen and broken into in different East Bay cities but not the same care twice. either you drive too nice of a car for your neighborhood, you're not taking proper precautions, or you are just lieing (and maybe don't even live in oakland). even if it was stolen twice, so what? cars are stolen all over america every day. you think people only steal cars in oakland? I think the rate might actually be higher in other bay area cities like SF and San Jose (per capita)

as for the number of people shot by cops, that's only the tip of the iceberg on tensions with the community over their generally abusive policing practices. cops do not act like they are a part of the community. they fly in as enforcers, grab a paycheck, and leave every day. when cops begin to actually live in cities they police, begin to practice more community policing and build long-term relationships with community members instead of just rolling around and intimidating, begin to hold their own accountable for crimes against the people they are sworn to protect, then they will find a whole lot more community support and maybe oakland can make progress against violent citizens

that's what you call a plan, something random numbers just don't offer, stat-man
by one more thing
Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 2:42 PM
what is the source for your stats?

it would be good to cite it here, and hopefully it's something online
by another concerned citizen
Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 2:50 PM
here's the source. 2006 is latest complete year I could find:
http://oaklandca.areaconnect.com/crime1.htm

if you want national perspective, note that violent crimes were almost 4x national average per capita.

sorry these numbers are meaningless to you. if 32,250 crimes are meaningless, I'm curious what exactly is meaningful. and no, I'm not here advocating a police state military industrial nightmare. those were your words, not mine. I just thought this discussion needed some data. no you have it.

and yes. same car, stolen twice. recovered both times. the second time it was pretty much a total loss and it's no longer my car. I liked it. it was a cool car. I guess it's my fault it was stolen, right? stupid me for having a car in Oakland.
by back2issue
Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 3:37 PM
What do crime stats have to do with the fact that cops in Oakland have engaged in a pattern of depriving people of civil rights so routinely that we no longer talk about "a few bad apples" on the force because it's become rare to even find "a few good apples" anymore?

And this is exactly why Mr. Mixon was prepared. Do you not think Mr. Mixon had heard about the BART cop who shot Oscar Grant in the back? OF course he knew about that, and he knew about many other instances of police abuse in Oakland. So he was prepared for the police. They were not prepared for him though. They were not prepared for someone with the guts and ability to fight back.

I have to wonder: if Oscar Grant knew that a BART cop might try to shoot him in the back on New Years morning, wouldn't he have wanted to be prepared?

If you know cops are murdering people routinely in your neighborhood, do you NOT want to be prepared when you're stopped by them? When you door gets kicked in at 2am (even if they have "the wrong house"), are you going to be unprepared?

by Keep it real
Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 4:11 PM
*looking up in wonder*

Dude or dudette,

Are you REALLY comparing Mr. Grant to Mr. Mixon?!

For starters, I expect Mr. Grant's family would happily kick your ass for even mentioning him in the same sentence with Mr. Mixon.
For closers, you have stretched waaaaaay out to try to draw a connection between the two to satisfy your weak theory as to cause and effect.

"Bad apples" in the OPD..."and this is why Mr. Mixon was prepared"?! Talk about stretching to create an association.

Come on. One an innocent man wrongfully murdered. The other a convicted felon, carrying illegal guns, potentially wanted for rape, in violation of parole, who not only shot two people on the spur of the moment, but also doubled back to deliver execution shots to the wounded men, and then later killed two more after having time to premeditate the action.

You insult Oscar Grant's memory with this kind of bogus comparison; you also reduce the situation and its complex realities to an overly simplified and infantile comparison that shows your lack of thought or apparent intelligence.
by another concerned citizen
Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 4:15 PM
The point is that you spend all your time worrying about any...ANY...incident involving the cops while thousands of other crimes go on you could care less about. The point is apparently the entire population of Oakland could get murdered and you'd only care if a cop was involved. And if he tried to stop it, it would somehow be his fault. So let's cut to the chase and answer the real questions:

The only violence that matters in Oakland is committed by cops. (yes/no)

If my father/mother/wife/best friend was murdered, it would not matter unless a cop was involved. (yes/no)

If someone commits a crime in Oakland and they are not a cop, it is the victim's fault. They had it coming. (yes/no)

I just hate cops and this whole debate is a complicated way of me saying I hate cops. (yes/no)

I am glad those 4 cops got killed. (yes/no)

Just trying to understand your worldview. Thanks.

by anon
Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 4:16 PM
If he was "holed up", as the article says, then presumably he was hiding? Then how would the police know where he was, or be able to talk to him? They didn't even know he was in that particular building. Their options were basically to go looking for him or risk letting him escape. And no matter what, this confrontation was ending in 2 deaths (both officers at the initial stop died).
by me too
Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 4:39 PM
sorry, but not everything can be tied up into neat yes or no questions

besides most of your points here are always setting up straw men that you can knock down rather than actually address what people are saying, with some condescension thrown in for ad hominem flavor. is it the victims fault (yes/no)? pah-lease. you're obviously not interested in real dialogue, but I'll keep trying anyway

people, like me, try to make serious points about how it's not either/or, it's both/and, and you just keep coming back to "don't look at the police at all because that's a distraction or insignificant," as if it's not all part of the same problem

like it or not, but a lot of people don't trust cops in Oakland and many for good reason. there's a long historical tradition of that in the City, and frankly while many criminals in Oakland get sent to jail for what they've done not a single cop ever does for wrongfully hurting people. at its most basic level, that means the police don't get cooperation that might help solve some of those crimes, like the murder of your father/mother/wife/best friend by some non-cop. if you really wanted to get a handle on those non-cop crimes as you profess you do, you'd be just a little more interested in having police build stronger ties/respect with the community. trust is non-existent in far too many quarters now. maybe in your neighborhood everyone smiles at the police and feels safer when they are around, but not in mine
by another concerned citizen
Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 4:51 PM
"if you really wanted to get a handle on those non-cop crimes as you profess you do, you'd be just a little more interested in having police build stronger ties/respect with the community."

absolutely. I am all for community policing and for treating crime as part of a larger problem. glad we agree on something. as for the straw men, I did set some up, but there are people on here who frankly ARE straw men and I felt it was time to call them out. but you are not and for that you have my respect. you're right, it's not a black and white world out there and I hope you stay safe whereever you live in this weird town of ours.
by don't assume
Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 4:53 PM
people come on here so confident they represent 99% of Oakland or know exactly what Oscar Grant's family or friends are thinking, based on nothing but their own sense of self-righteousness

well, lemme tell you a thing or two about Oscar Grant's family, with whom I've spoken and heard speak in public since Saturday -- while people are all individuals and I would never make assertions otherwise, the ones I've spoken with are very upset now and, although it is certainly not a mirror of what happened to Oscar, they feel it is another example how bad the situation is with police in Oakland. not that these officers, especially speaking of the first two, did anything at the scene that directly warranted being shot, but the overall environment is incredibly hostile and tense between police and citizens, even between cops and citizens not committing any crimes as Oscar was not in just trying to get home safely on new year's eve. obviously, Oscar Grant's death is far more the norm in Oakland regarding police/citizen interactions that what Mixon did, and Oscar Grant's family members knows that all too well

do not speak FOR the family unless you have spoken WITH the family
by officer safety
Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 4:55 PM
You don't bust the door down to find out if someone's there. That's absurd! You secure the perimeter, get neighbors out, try calling (yes, try), use a bullhorn, use sensitive sound detectors if necessary, use high-tech equivalents to long handled mirrors near windows and under door threshholds (yes, they have them), you even wait. This could take hours or days. If you have no idea who's in there or how many or what they have, you don't rush in unless your a fucking gung ho idiot! Darwin's theory at work there? Don't know...maybe.
by me too
Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 4:59 PM
thank you

for now, I'm out
by Keep It Real
Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 5:24 PM
To negotiation/anon: The cops knew where he was because they got a tip. The news reported that today, and discussed that they would be paid a reward.

To "don't assume": You'll note I began my statement with the words "I expect"; indicating that I didn't pretend to know the family, but guessing I'd know how any parent would feel.

You claim to know the family and how they feel. Seems you've indicated they don't support the killing of the first 2 cops and are unhappy with the tensions in town. Those would both support how I would think they'd feel.

But you've met them, so tell me: you think they want their sons memory partnered with Mixon and his actions? IMO, that's using their son and his memory, and in a way that sullies his reputation and life. Grant was murdered, not a murderer. That was my primary point.
by pointmaker
Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 5:41 PM
The cops planned to murder Mixon before they entered the building. They knew they were going to go in to kill him no matter what. That was their plan. The plan was to commit murder and justify it by alleging that it was urgent to go in right away. But it was NOT urgent.

They could have planned to wait him out and negotiate a peaceful end, but instead they planned to rush in and shoot and kill him. And they did rush in. But before they could shoot him, he got a few rounds off of his own. Then they killed him just as they had planned. The only problem for the cops was that their plan went bad. They didn't think he'd get some of them first.

But they murdered him, because they had a choice and they could have stayed outside and tried some reasonable non-violent alternatives first. So Lovelle Mixon was indeed murdered.
by whilewereatit
Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 6:15 PM
Tearful Atlanta Cops Express Remorse for Shooting 92-Year-Old Kathryn Johnston, Leaving Her To Bleed to Death in Her Own Home While They Planted Drugs in Her Basement, Then Threatening an Informant So He Would Lie To Cover It All Up:
by the people
Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 7:10 PM
somebody should organize a rally and demonstration at the funeral this friday expressing the peoples' outrage at the murder of Lovelle Mixon and everybody else the OPD has murdered.
by no trial
Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 7:24 PM
Mixon was never tried for the cop shootings. He's only alleged to have done them. There will never be a trial now, so we'll never have a jury weigh evidence and determine beyond a reasonable doubt that he did it. We only have the cops' story, and we know that's not a trustworthy source of truth. The sex claim was fabricated after the recent incident to demonize him. More unreliable stuff. We do know that the cops murdered him, however, because they admitted it (only calling it something else).
by Too Sense
Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 7:59 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIO-Ct_VJvM

Similar gung ho mentality?
by John Thielking
Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 9:20 PM
It seems the premise of this article is that the cops should not have rushed in to the apartment because they would have had plenty of time to sit out in front and negotiate a surrender of the the suspect. However, what would we be saying now if the suspect had started shooting from inside the apartment while the cops were waiting for him to give up? He had an assault rifle after all, which would have made a perfectly good sniper type weapon. I'm not going to second guess the cops on this one. And I'm also not celebrating the deaths on either side. It's a damn shame that this had to happen. Weren't assault rifles banned some time ago? How did a felon parolee get his hands on one?
by copcritic
Tuesday Mar 24th, 2009 9:32 PM
Once the SWAT team identified the apartment that they thought he was in, they could have trained their sights on any windows that the suspect could have used to fire out of. If he ever did come to the window with a gun, he would have been an easy target for a sniper. But they shouldn't have just gone in with a plan to kill him like they did. They had all kinds of reasonably safe alternatives at their disposal, but they chose the most dangerous of all choices and the dumbest of all choices because they wanted revenge.
by says the cops
Wednesday Mar 25th, 2009 1:01 AM
He was not convicted of this. There wasn't even an arrest warrant out for him for it. If the evidence was so 100% conclusive why was there no warrant for his arrest? Do cops usually sit around after they have "proven" that someone committed a serious crime?

The cops have been on a total smear campaign of Mixon for days, and the media report it all as the God's truth and never ever ask for any sort of verification. Now everyone within range of the corporate media believes he is guilty of all these things based on nothing more than hearsay from a department proven to lie again and again.

And then you point to a SFGate article as if that's "proof" of something.
by Cuñado
Wednesday Mar 25th, 2009 2:45 AM
I read a good bit of the corpMedia's barrage then after sampling the comments on SFGate and some other bullshit "news" sites (too many for my own mental health, man), I trolled Indybay and read this whole comment thread...

Fuck.

I need , WE need, all of O town, some free and open space to just chill and listen to each other. And fuck if it ain't the cops and the news and the bullshit DA and the general fuckheads just piling on the tension and bile.

I'm already in the thick of it down here -(DogtownOaklander for 20 years and Eastsider for like 8) - and this has already been an intense year.

I need a little ... i dunno.... a little somethin'.

And the MACArthur BART action is tomorrow.....

maybe if believed in a God I could pray....

maybe I'll pray a little anyway.
by Mike
Wednesday Mar 25th, 2009 3:21 AM
Activists, and an academic, the author of Stolen Lives book, and families spoke to share their experiences and learnings from being the victims of police abuse and/or confronting the issue.
by Bob Avakian
Wednesday Mar 25th, 2009 3:24 AM
"In a world marked by profound class divisions and social inequality, to talk about “democracy”— without talking about the class nature of that democracy and which class it serves—is meaningless, and worse. So long as society is divided into classes, there can be no “democracy for all”: one class or another will rule, and it will uphold and promote that kind of democracy which serves its interests and goals. The question is: which class will rule and whether its rule, and its system of democracy, will serve the continuation, or the eventual abolition, of class divisions and the corresponding relations of exploitation, oppression and inequality."
by Ken Lewis
Wednesday Mar 25th, 2009 3:26 AM
We all remember the irrational wave of pro-militaristic sentiment that swept the nation after 911. Similarly, there will be an irrational wave of sentiment for Oakland police following last weekend's killings. It will be particularly important, therefore, to do what's necessary to keep the Oscar Grant story and similar stories in the forefront. If we don't, we can be certain that the post 911-like sentiment will cause political officials to roll over for anything the Oakland police ask for. We need to remember that it is a substantially corrupted police force, and that doesn't change when cops die in the line of duty: if anything, cop deaths only foster police state mentalities because of the way the corporate medias report them.
by anarchist
Wednesday Mar 25th, 2009 3:28 AM
advocating the murder of police officers. Instead I think this person is simply noting how officers STILL are acting out of protocol and making HUGE mistakes. For the record a cop hasn't been killed in Oakland since 2006 and that was by a hit and run. The last OPD officer to die by the gun of a suspect was in 1999 and the last time this many OPD were killed in one day was in 1898. 4 cops die and who is to blame? An irrational man who has no authority or accountability to uphold the law but for his own volition or those who are put in social contract to due just that and ignore it time and time again. Just look at how many people have unjustly died at the hands of pigs since the year began in oakland and beyond. The statistics are much harder to find and much more overwhelming once you
by Mike Freedman
Wednesday Mar 25th, 2009 3:32 AM
they are just ass kissing to city hall
SFGate has been nutered in the last year or so,
the staff seems to be happy to be a bunch of sellouts. This is what we have come to
the Guardian has been doing it's share of brown nosing as well. We just don't have a real voice any more.Who can we trust?
by um
Wednesday Mar 25th, 2009 9:09 AM
what are they talking about with "DNA evidence" tying him to the rape. his picture is all over the news. is there some reason the victim couldn't just identify him, if he really did do this? to present the info this way seems like some kind of convoluted demonization scheme.
by trauma
Wednesday Mar 25th, 2009 10:15 AM
You also need to understand that going through a sexual assault or rape is very traumatizing for the victim. Some victims are so traumatized that they block out the memory of the attack or are too scared to report to the police. The actual number of rapes/sexual assaults is much greater than the number reported to police.

http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-rates

^statistics are there if anyone is curious about the numbers
by I need a hero
Wednesday Mar 25th, 2009 10:29 AM
lovelle-mixon.jpg
lovelle-mixon.jpg

by focused
Wednesday Mar 25th, 2009 10:49 AM
The cops surrounded the apartment where they thought a young black male who was ONLY SUSPECTED OF shooting two white cops was hiding. They didn't know for sure whether he did it, and they didn't know whether others would also be inside with guns. But they decided outside that they wanted to go in and kill the man inside that apartment. They armed themselves and agreed to go in and kill him if they saw him there.

They knew that even if they entered the room and found him lying face down with his hands spread out, at least one of the cops would shoot him and allege that Mixon flinched his hand and that the cop perceived that as an imminent threat. In the police report, there would be some reference to a shiny object near Mixon's hand at the time he flinched.

And of course all the cops would shoot Mixon once the first cop fired.

So they knew that was the plan going in--to kill him no matter what. And Mixon knew from the history of the Oakland police that that was what the cops would do if they came in, so he was ready for them. Mixon had no choice but to shoot once the cops entered the apartment. He knew he would end up dead no matter what, so the injustice of the police entry was met with some quite understandable resistance.
by rescheduled
Wednesday Mar 25th, 2009 11:37 AM
it is now Thursday April 2

so you have a little time extra time on that at least

do be there, though. we gotta keep the heat on BART and not back down
by Sure...
Wednesday Mar 25th, 2009 1:04 PM
...When you can just make facts up out of thin air.

"So they knew that was the plan going in--to kill him no matter what."

Or did a cop who was there tell you that?..
by '
Wednesday Mar 25th, 2009 1:08 PM
so you reactionaries always decide for the wholeworld ,what is and is not reality.you always decide when its right for your police to attack anyone,youll always make an excuse to assault a person or a country with your weapons of mass destruct
by Anon E. Mouse
Wednesday Mar 25th, 2009 2:50 PM
There are a couple of problems with your theory.

1. How was the entry unjust? If he was innocent, and therefore the entry was unjustified, then he wouldn't have had any reason to suspect that the cops were going to be knocking down his door, and he certainly wouldn't have had time to lock & load his AK-47 and hide in the closet and wait.
2. Why not come out with his hands up? If he was truly afraid, open the door, walk out, keeping his hands in the air? There were news cameras all over the place. Cops couldn't have shot him in view of that without some serious shit.
by focuse
Wednesday Mar 25th, 2009 2:57 PM
It was premature and intended to kill someone who was ONLY A SUSPECT. The kill was planned in advance. If they had waited and attempted negotiation, he might have eventually come out with his hands up. Of course, even in that scenario, one cop would have shot him and then they rest would have followed, claiming that when he came out with his hands up one of the hands moved quickly towards a shiny object near his waist. The kill was planned, so the entry was unjust. Therefore, he was murdered, but not before some admirable resistance.
by James Corbin
Wednesday Mar 25th, 2009 3:38 PM
It's shit like this, "Copwatch13", that makes me want to swim in a vat of bleach and move to a deserted island. It's bad enough to be looked at with suspicion and/or fear everywhere I go, but now -- now you're just making us look like heartless, amoral bastards, willing to justify any atrocity and still play the victim card. "...When alternative remedies might have been available"? Here's an alternative remedy that definitely WAS available: if you're a felon, DON'T CARRY AN ASSAULT RIFLE. Mixon was stupid enough to fuck up multiple times and get locked up. Once he got out, he was further stupid enough to pack which, as a felon, is itself enough to send him back to prison for a few years. (And no, "self-defense" ain't the reason to pack a semi-auto rifle, like he did.) And if it's true that he raped 5 or 6 women (check: "girl"; one of them was 12), then I would gladly have wasted his sorry punk ass myself, and it wouldn't matter if he was my identical twin. Maybe you also think that we should've tried "alternative remedies" when it came to dealing with the guy who shot up Virginia Tech. If only the police had tried to nicely coax him out of the building with a 12-pack and some porn, he could've been convinced to peacefully surrender . . . so we could put him on trial, convict and execute him. Yeah. And maybe you could get a fucking clue. You, "Copwatch13", are an embarrassment to ANY race. I'm just sorry that apparently you belong to mine.
by Add Sense
Wednesday Mar 25th, 2009 5:44 PM
IF Mixon shot the first two cops (remember there will never be a trial now, so it's a big IF), then he probably did it with little or no time to reflect. It was something he probably decided in the heat of the moment. Otherwise, he would have just set himself up waiting for a cop to shoot a long time ago. So he was NOT out looking for cops to kill. This was a "heat of passion" decision. Again, IF he did it.

After theb first incident, naturally he ran to a temporary place of refuge: the apartment. Now he knew he was in big trouble and would go to jail for life or be killed if he were caught. He also knew that if police stormed in to get him, they would very likely try to kill him and say that they had to shoot him because he was reaching for something. He knew that from all the other times that cops shoot people and then lie and say they had to because someone was reaching for something. He knew that cops lie about that all the time.

So he was prepared for them if they came in to kill him. He had a loaded gun. It was the only way he could be prepared to attempt survival if they wouldn't give him a chance to surrender and come out in a way he could feel safe. For them to simply demand that he surrender is not sufficient. He knew that if he simply walked out with his hands up they still shoot him and say he made a furtive movement.

Also, to give someone an hour or two to decide whether to come out after a major incident like that was extremely insufficient and unreasonable. It was also unreasonable for the cops to storm in prematurely because they didn't give themselves time to plan something much safer and less potentially violent. The decisionmakers that day jeopardized the safety of all the SWAT cops, and they got two of them killed. It was bad officer safety, and it was hasty and retaliatory. Their concerns for payback overrode their concerns for safety, justice, and a peaceful resolution. That's true no matter how bad a guy Mixon was. The cops blew it once again.
by Anon E. Mouse
Wednesday Mar 25th, 2009 10:09 PM
According to media reports, the cops tried to contact him in the apartment, he didn't want to talk.

And there is nothing admirable about a child raping pimp who preys on his own community. DNA don't lie. ,
by BlackFemme
Thursday Mar 26th, 2009 9:17 AM
That is not the only reason why people do not cooperate with police and you damn well know it. Speaking from personal experience and knowing what others have gone through in my community victim intimidation happens all too often.

Recently some family friends were robbed in Hayward by a member of DGF. These boys were 14 years old waiting for the bus and some fools rolled up and jacked them for a few dollars. Well when court came around and it was the day for them to testify, the parents wouldn't allow them to get on the stand. Not because of relations with the police, but because this fools family (who are all long time nortenos) sat in the court room intimidating these boys. And of course they all live in the same neighborhood and shit would get said to them. Police or not this asshole and his family/gang will make it damn near impossible to deal with any crime in our neighborhoods.

I'm all for the police improving their relations with the community, but you need to face the entire reality of living in the neighborhood and know that the police aren't the only ones that are keeping the community from coming to them
by ;
Thursday Mar 26th, 2009 5:45 PM
the cops may or may not be racist as you understand the term,and they work for a white created organization which bdoesent include input from those HAVE been abused AND seen abuse of others including white people ,women etc. if you hang around people who are racist ,like many police are,you are tinted by those people.you are no ndifferent than any gang that bullies people.you are seen as all the same.again, there is no input on what codes or laws of life written by anyone but whites. someones right to use healing plants cannot be determined by only one group,in this case,the white run united states...
by isaiah davies
Friday Mar 27th, 2009 1:10 PM
Being a long time Bay Area resident and a person that frequents all parts of Oakland, I know the frustration that has developed in the community due to police mistreatment and their habitual abuse of power. In light of recent events in Oakland (like the BART shooting) and the fact that the shooter was an ex-felon, I can't say that I justify what happened but I definitely understand why it happened.

If Mixon was only 26 and he has already done close to 6 years in prison, that means that he was most likely a teenager when he committed the initial offense that landed him in the parole system. This was not a bad person, but rather a person that got mixed up as a very young man in a rough community. Imagine how frustrating it must be to still have to answer for something that was done over half a decade ago. The problem with the police and the prison system in general is that it has bred society to look down on or fear people that have committed crimes previously; when a person is looked up and pops up in the system as an ex-con, we automatically judge them as dangerous and untrustworthy. I think that Mixon's awareness of the way he was going to be judged combined with hostile relationship between the people of Oakland and the police force created the formula for the events of March 21, 2009.

This is a sad story about the failure of a system that resulted in the deaths of 5 men. No matter anyone's opinion about the actions of any party involved, there are 5 families that have just suffered a huge loss. An important thing for people to think about that I think could stop a lot of discrimination and get ex-felons to turn their life around is that convicts are not the only criminals, they are only the ones that have gotten caught. Lovelle Mixon was an equal, if not lesser, threat to the community as the anonymous robber/killer/drug dealers that have never been held to answer for their actions. This is not to say that ex-cons should not be monitored at all, but I think that opportunities for change must be present to change the cycle of crime and incarceration.
A tradgedy all around.....
Sgt. Pat Gonzalez is the wounded SWAT officer that survived. He has been accused in the past of cowboy behavior like when he put a bullet in the back of 20 year old Gary King Jr. in 2007,
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2007/09/23/18449224.php.

I also believe that he was the most vetran member of the SWAT team so, I can't help but wonder if he may have been the one calling some or all of the shots in the two hour period that elapsed between the 1st and 2nd shootings.

It a real shame because Dunnagin, the 1st officer down was a rare gem, a fine man and a fine officer. Its a real loss for Oakland!!!
Unfortunately, I didn't know the other three officers, may they all rest in peace and Mr. Mixon as well!

I also can't help but wonder if the OPD unit handling the rapes that may have been committed by Mixon had had the resources that they needed to adequately protect Oakland if we would still have some, or all of the officers still with us.

Resources like the ability to have circulated pictures and information re: the subjects of DNA sex perp matches to the OPD's traffic and beat officers, as soon as the match is made by the state lab because clearly, this delay had deadly results.

Had OPD personnel been made immediately aware of the match to a parolee with his last known address in Oakland in the same neighborhood as the traffic stop, Dunnigan could have recognized the threat he presented as soon as he made visual contact with him. It seems like the culture of tolerance for sex crimes against prostitutes and the citizens of Oakland has come back around in a most tragic way to take the OPD's own!!! Anyone else remember Kalonji Lee, 31, "rapist who sexually assault a 10-year-old Oakland girl after police failed to arrest him following an earlier attack on another 10-year-old" eventhough they had everything they needed already on paper they just didn't have the "resources" to process this "information."
I'm a politically left-center individual who finds it hard to comprehend that anyone could possibly justify this man's actions on this day. He gunned down two police officers in a very calculated fashion, executed them both on the spot. I'm really interested to know what other actions people think the inevitable SWAT team should have taken.

Lovelle had complete control over his destiny that day. He chose death in my view. Those officers were not there to oppress him. The first two he killed were there to stop a car. The ones that followed were there to bring a cop killer into custody, by any means necessary. He could have surrendered at the traffic stop. He could have surrendered at the house he holed up in. He didn't.

I realize black people feel oppression, and think at times this feeling is justified. Nothing can excuse the calculated murderous intent of Lovelle's actions that day however. I'm someone who almost always finds himself politically aligned with the "underdogs" in society. However, Lovelle's wanton killing, and your groups' excusing his actions away, have me repulsed.

If you wanted to really further your cause instead of painting yourselves into an extremist corner that rational people laugh off as absurd, then you're best served by acknowledging that Lovelle's actions were criminal and inexcusable, because they were.
by just a man
Friday Mar 27th, 2009 3:36 PM
Based on your reasoning, the terrorists on 9-11 who flew planes into the twin towers weren't really at fault because we don't know if they really did it. It's not their fault society made them do it right? If only we could reason with them first....

So you would prefer no police and instead live like its the wild wild west? Who would run Oakland then? I bet you wouldn't like the situation any better.
by Too Sense
Friday Mar 27th, 2009 5:00 PM
Mike asked the same question the answer to wich has been repeated over and over: the alternative remedy was for the cops to wait and try negotiating Mixon's peaceful, non-violent exit. Again (as comments state), that could take days sometimes, but it would have obviously been worth trying. The wait also would have allowed better planning , and from the perspective of officer safety (which I don't really care about myself), it would have been a more logical strategy that bursting in in haste. I hope nobody has to ask the same question again about what the alternative remedies were. Good heavens, there were many. Please have a capacity to imagine more broadly than the narrow-minded path these dumb cops took.

And "just a man's" comment about the 9-11 "terrorists" really makes no sense at all. Who are the "9-11 terrorists" anyway? The US gov't? We still don't even know if the hijacker theory is true, but even if it is they weren't necessarily terrorists. Our government has been supplying arms to Israel to use against Palestinian and Lebanese civilians and children. If the hijackers were responding to that policy, I wouldn't call them terrorists: I'd call them something like freedom fighters. And yes, I'd say that it was not their fault that they've were so repressed that they were compelled to act.

But this really gets us off the point here, which is that the cops were engaged in an unjust act and had the intent to kill a young man who was only a suspect. Mixon was not posing an imminent threat to anyone at the particular time the cops decided to bust the door down to go in and kill him. But the cops did created an imminent threat to Mixon's life and initiated that threat themselves by charging in fully armed. Mixon had to shoot them as a matter of self-defense.
by alex
Friday Mar 27th, 2009 7:05 PM
Why was Mixon stopped in the first place--another BS stop by cowboy cops? They were standing right behind the car together probably not paying attention to the driver (sloppy police work that cost them their lives. Maybe, they should have told him to keep his hand on the steering wheel and one of the cops stood off to one side and kept an eye on him. I'm sure Mixon was watching them thru his rearview mirror, and felt he could easily get the drop on them. Why not, he sure as hell was not going back to prison. Sounds likes an invitation for someone who hates cops to do exactly what he did. Also, did the swat team what revenge when they got to the apartment--hell ya. Could that have been handled differently--hell ya. I am not a cop but I would have use bull horns to give him a chance to come out. If he doesn't, now I know he has a death wish. Plan B, I lob several cans of tear gas into the apartment or enough until he comes out shooting. Now we shoot him and no cops have to die. Just my opinion.
by Mr. X
Friday Mar 27th, 2009 8:02 PM
Believe me or not but the following is based on accounts from people in the neighborhood. Mixon was stopped by Sgt Dunikan first, the 2nd
officer, Ofc. Hega, was not with him. Dunigan had to have gone back to his motorcycle and radioed in, which would have told him Mixon had
a false Driver's License. Dunikan called for backup. Just before Ofc. Hege arrived Mixon shot Sgt. Dunikan. As Ofc. Hege pulled up Mixon
shot Hege. He then shot both again as they lay on the ground dying. Confirmation of this is by the fact that Sgt. Dunikan's motrocyls was on
its kickstand, Ofc. Hege's was laying in the street.

The OPD Swat team made a decision to go in after 2 hours. Waiting longer may not have been an option as Mixon had proved himself to be
armed, extremely dangerous, and highly unstable. There are many parameters here and OPD Swat has to be trusted to do their job. They
may or may not have calculated that Mixon had much heavier firepower than the handgun he first used. I also theorize that the AK47 Mixon is
reported to have used may have been converted to full automatic, it is not dificult to do. They knew the apartment was Mixon's sister so they
could run his record and in a few minutes know he was wanted for raping a 12 year old and various parole violations. And of course they
knew he had just killed two officers in cold blood.

OPD Swat would have entered using flash grenades but it is reported Mixon was either behind a closet or bathroom door. The stun grenades
would have been neutralized by Mixon being behind a door, if that is the case. Mixon started spraying head high. The aftermath we know.
Copwatch13 and others that think OPD should have taken a different approach should get a life.

Some of the comments here turning Mixon into a hero, or soldier are, frankly, sick. He was a desparate evil criminal who
had no regard for others. Some have justified his actions by saying he didn't want to go back to prison. Few want to go back to prison and
those that do not shouldn't carry a handgun, false ID, rape women and children, and stash an assault rifle. And kill Police Officers and
possibley others in cold blood. This was a violent, evil, sadistic asshole. Those who support his actions and have organized demonstrations
for him, such as Uhuru House, are sick. Mixon has polarized an already bad situation for the Black Community. OPD will never forget what
happened and they shouldn't.
by reiterator
Friday Mar 27th, 2009 9:40 PM
You said, "The OPD Swat team made a decision to go in after 2 hours. Waiting longer may not have been an option as Mixon had proved himself to be armed, extremely dangerous, and highly unstable."

Waiting longer WAS indeed an option. It was the BEST option. Again, there was absolutely NO reason to go in at all before trying various approaches that had the potential for a non-violent outcome.

It could have taken days of waiting, negotiation, maybe even some false promises, offers, diffusion, psychological tactics, maybe get a relative to speak on the bullhorn and plead?, etc.

The situation was stable, so it should NOT have been escalated that prematurely by the dumb cops. It doesn't matter what he did at the traffic stop (if it was him), and it doesn't matter if his gun was converted (that was bald speculation, and who cares?-- he's sitting still and the situation is stable).

You call him unstable, but the fact is he was just sitting there quietly. That's called a STABLE situation. PLUS, the cops only knew he was a SUSPECT. Cops shouldn't have the decision-making flexibility to simply decide to rush in and kill someone who's quietly hiding out just because he doesn't come out after 2 hours and is SUSPECTED OF killing someone.

And, incidentally, cops are NEVER any more valuable to society than, for instance, garbage collectors; though many cops are less valuable. So no cop funeral should cost the taxpayers any more than the funeral of a garbage collector.
by radical
Saturday Mar 28th, 2009 12:19 AM
i know first-hand what brutal pigs the oakland police are.

in the summer of 1990 i was beaten by the OPD at a demonstration in downtown oakland.

when the cops had me in the back of the police car, with two other arrestees, they slapped a high five with each other and then one declared: "We ain't no pussy SFPD...if there weren't video we would have killed you!"

when I got back to the pig shack, one cop after another got into my face, which was raw and bleeding, and said "Oh the little pussy's got a boo-boo."

the only cop who showed even the slightest sympathy, self-serving as it was, was one who requested within earshot that he didn't want his name on my "ticket."

after about two or so hours in a cell by myself i was brought into a room to be "interviewed" by the same plain-clothes pigs who had beaten me a couple hours previously.

some time after that, after being put back into my cell, some big meat-head ass young cop came into my cell and told me to come with him. when i asked where i was going he said, "You'll find out." he put me in the back-seat of the pig car and drove me around east oakland making snorting, derisive comments about black people he passed on the streets. at a certain point in our little voyage he said, "I'm taking you to Highland [the county hospital in oakland]; the sheriffs there don't get many chances to play. If you act crazy i'll hand you over to them and they'll inject you with something and trash you."

once i got to highland i was seen by a doctor in the hallway while hand-cuffed to the chair i was seated in. the dumb-ass pig was sitting next to me to insure that i didn't divulge any uncomfortable information about the cause of my condition. that said, when he was distracted the young doctor, who seemed sympathetic, asked in a whisper what had happened and i responded with head nod in the direction of the shit-for-brains pig sitting next to me. she seemed to understand--i mean, truly understand--what i was saying.

after the trip to the hospital, or shortly after, i was cycled into the general prison population, becoming one of the many anonymous, already-abused "criminals" and i was safe once again.
by thankful4indybay
Saturday Apr 11th, 2009 10:36 PM
The Chron finally acknowledged today that many experts think the cops went in too soon and violated principles of officer safety and public safety.

Thanks Copwatch13!!!
by readb4Uwrite
Sunday Jul 26th, 2009 8:13 AM
Negotiation had been tried for 2 hours. There was a 16 year old in the same apartment as Mixon. For him to engage in a firefight knowing that his niece was there shows the same appalling lack of consideration for the lives of others he showed when he shot those first two police officers.

There were other residents and children in the building as well. This man was armed and dangerous in a building full of innocent people. Why not ask one of them if the police should have waited outside negotiating for days when Mixon could have taken one or all of them hostage or shot some of them to make the point that he was "serious"?

Negotiate for days? Did Mixon negotiate before shooting the officers whose guns were still strapped into their holsters? Did he negotiate after they were down, having been shot in cold blood, or when he went over and shot them again after they were down and dying to make sure they were dead? And if the police did wait and innocent residents were killed by Mixon, would you then blame the police for waiting?

These policemen lived outside Oakland and could have taken jobs in safe suburbs. They were very good and dedicated policemen and human beings who believed in serving and had great compassion for the people of Oakland. The people of Oakland showed their appreciation by showing up and paying tribute to the officers and others like them who put their lives on the line for them every day.

If there are rogue policemen, report them. But just as every black person who lives in Oakland would not like to be characterized as a Lovelle Mixon, neither should every police officer be characterized as a rogue.

If your daughter was one of the ones raped by Mixon, would you still be writing without researching and still playing Monday quarterback? If Mixon were in your building and taking you hostage, what would your reactions be? Stop taking the simplistic approach and trying to spread hate and division. Your post shows an idealistic view that is slanted and does not take into consideration the realities of the situation.
by SaTan on a Stick
Wednesday Nov 11th, 2009 2:38 AM
I wonder if they do this exercise while on the public dime.

We can argue all day, but the results show that it was stupid to go into that apartment building all gung ho.
by Clayton
Tuesday Dec 1st, 2009 7:02 PM
Raul you make a very good point, but none of that changes the fact that Lovelle Mixon was a child rapist and an all around scumbag, who should have been rotting in prison. The world is better off without him. It's just too bad he had to take four people with him.