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Indybay Feature

U.S. Military Action: Breaking News

by sfimc volunteer
in this picture, people at a sports game hear their leader announce terrorist attacks against people in afghanistan. then they watched football. see more news below.
cardinals.jpg
Over 1 Million Refugees Expected in Pakistan in Wake of US Attacks
http://www.paknews.com/top.php?id=2&date1=2001-10-07

Civilians Break Curfew to Flee U.S. Bombs in Kabul
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011007/wl/attack_afghan_strikes_flight_dc_1.html

NATO Will Deploy AWACS Aircraft Within U.S. Border
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/htx/nm/20011007/ts/attack_nato_awacs_dc_1.html

Bin Laden Tape Released, Calls Americans "Sinners"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20011007/aponline143904_000.htm

British Subs Used in Attack on Afghanistan
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011007/wl/attack_britain_blair_forces_dc_2.html

Shindand Air Base in Farah: Next Target of US Military Action?
http://www.irna.com/newshtm/eng/15220510.htm

U.S. Targets Home of Mullah Mohammed Omar, Taliban's Highest Leader
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20011008/459064.htm

Interview with Mullah Omar
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,558076,00.html

Taliban Readies Afghanistan-Based Trial of Osama bin Laden
http://www.irna.com/newshtm/eng/15184148.htm
by An American
You fucking assholes just can't stand to see justice being served. How dare you motherfuckers call the missiles sent to Afganistan a "terrorist" attack. It is attacking terrorists, but not a terrorist attack. Only an shithead would believe that a complex multi-national defense would be scheduled to coincide with sports games. Once again, Indymedia shows it supports the slaughter and rape of innocent Americans.
by mohawk
Your fucking US state is full of blood, rape and murder.
USA is the largest rogue state.
Bush laden father and the military-industrial complex created the religious-islamist-fascist to destroy the arab-muslim left.
US and european foreign policy is based on murder, exploitation from latin america to arab coutries or africa.
Fascist brainwashed, mainstream redneck such as you are stuffed and happy with oppression and terror.

by i hate my countrymen
Dear "Payback" ... YOU are the reason the U.S. is a target in the world. YOUR ignorance, YOUR complacency, YOUR lack of knowledge besides anything outside your little television. Out of the people who died in the U.S. attacks on Afghanistan, HOW MANY DO YOU THINK WERE TERRORISTS? The U.S. Government used OUR tax dollars to build up right-wing terrorists like Osama bin Laden (including osama bin laden) and now we must deal with it. Your ignorant and violent response is the reason everyone hates Americans, and I agree with them. You make me sick. It isnt about PAYBACK it is about BLOWBACK. dumbass.
by tesserakt
justice being served? i haven't seen a single instance of justice in this situation. the attacks by the right wing, fundamentalist, reactionary organization that hit the wtc and pentagon were no sort of justice. and the attacks by the right wing, fundamentalist, reactionary organization that hit afghanistan this morning (and has been constantly brutalizing the people of that region and all over the thirld world, including the third world that exists in its inner cities, for quite some time) were no sort of justice. justice will be served when both bushes, clinton, reagan, bin laden, et al. are recognized as war criminals and the plodding and relentless march of the war machine is stopped.

tell me where the justice is in playing right into the hands of a violent religious fundamentalist regime that's calling for a holy war against its oppressors, answering their prayers and validating the points they've been trying to use to gain recruits. you think september 11 is the best they can do? you think we're not going to see more of that now? oh, that's right-- they're going to take away all of the civil rights that make this country "free" so that we can have a national security state that prevents any more attacks. right. just like the war on drugs eliminated drug use.

wake up. what's happening here is that, surprise surprise, out of a situation of bleak and violent oppression architected by the u.s. government and its unflinching capitalist fanaticism (lets keep in mind that the taliban would bever have come into power if not for the cia), a very violent and fanatical movement has sprung, attacking what they see as an imperialist force that has invaded and occupied their land. their tactics are dead wrong and their religious fanatacism no more viable or right then the ideological fanaticism of the capitalist front that has had them in a chokehold for this long. but as fucked up as it is, it is a resistance movement, and further oppression and violence is not going to make it go away.

the u.s. isn't going to bomb its way out of this. the more this situation is allowed to escalate, the more dangerous it becomes for everyone in the world. the future of human life on this planet lies in the ability of the people of the world, especially the people of the u.s., to mobilize and stop the military oppression that the u.s. has wrought on the third world. that system only leads to violence-- the only thing that changed on 9.11 is that americans couldn't ignore it any more. so we can respond to that by rallying behind our semiliterate "elected" leader, abandon logic for blind fanaticism just like bin laden and his followers, defend our right to kill iraqi children, israel's right to illegally occupy another country and kill its people, and our general right to violently impose our interests on weaker countries; or we can respond with an even more powerful movement to end this cycle, acknowledge that the brutalization of the people in the service of profit is not just morally wrong but completely unsustainable, and work toward building a true democracy.
by Antigone
30 years, 40 years, how long has the US got? No empire has endured "forever." Then the "payback" will really begin. I am planning to leave. No more killing in my name. Perhaps an inadequate response, but the daily proffer of insanity as sanity is beginning to take a toll on my own health. Let the Americans wallow in their haze of violence and pornography.
by santagonist (santagonist [at] hotmail.com)
tesseract is obviosly thinking more clearly than an american is at these times. reason and facts always sound so much more convincing than anger and insults. antigone may have it right, though. better to be somewhere else than have my name attached to the shame that is now an american foreign policy. but that would play into the hands of every one like "an american" who want peace loving, free thinking people to leave the US to whatever wars it wants to fight, for whatever reason. people are all dealing with this tragedy in different ways. i will probably work for peace just as fanaticaly as an american would work for war. because we americans are supposed to try to do what is right, according to our hearts.
by Milosz Reterski (rmilosz [at] hotmail.com)
Gosh, where are you going to go, Antigone? Are you going to run up north and meet up with Alec Baldwin? (oh wait, he's still here after all). Are you going to start your own island nation? What countries, especially the industrialized ones, don't have blood on their hands? What country doesn't feel it necessary to defend its borders and citizens? Please, try and organize your comrades to all move to only one tiny nation, so that anthropologists can study how a pacifist population gradually de-evolves as evolution and survival-of-the-fittest inherently mandates. And we know, Antigone, that when trouble comes around, you'd rather run away or be destroyed than stand up.
by Another American (spam-on-rye [at] ventaso.com)
This is the funniest site ever! It's so fucking funny to see a photograph of Americans watching their president speak to the nation with your caption indicating that they went back to the game (as if without a care in the world).

But what's really funny is your characterization of this action as a "Racist War."

LMFAO

You guys are WILD!
by Renee
I think this is a very telling photograph, an obvious reference to the never-ending video loop of a few Palestinians celebrating the WTC and Pentagon attacks. I would like to know where (what stadium) this picture is from, and whether Bush was really simulcast to stadiums across the country. I was at a park and then at work on Sunday and missed the initial television and radio coverage. If this information can be confirmed, I think every station and channel in Amerika should be asked to play it night and day for the next week. At the very least I expect to send it to all my friends(and a few foes, perhaps) and see if anyone can explain away Americans cheering the (inevitable) taking of innocent life.
by some proof
Renee, I'm not sure about the origin of the picture above, but the text is definitely accurate. Unfortunately. Here is some stuff off the AP newswire about it. I found it at http://news.yahoo.com/

Arizona Cardinals at Philadelphia Eagles Game, Man Waves Flag as giant TV announces the start of military action in Afghanistan:
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/ap/20011007/sp/1002478342cardinals_eagles_pxs102.html

Tennessee Titans at Baltimore Ravens, President Bush is broadcast to stadium. Note that Afghanistan is mis-spelled, and it gives the score of the game (what is wrong with you, AP??):
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/ap/20011007/sp/1002495754titans_ravens_reax_bar114.html

Heinz Field, Cincinnati Bengals at Pittsburgh Steelers, President Bush addresses nation on the stadium scoreboard:
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/ap/20011007/sp/1002485397bengals_steelers_attacks_gjp101.html

Feeling light-headed, sickened and afraid? Me too.
by DB (dberkheimer [at] altavista.com)
"Planning to leave," eh? Would that we were so lucky. There are far too many limp-wristed, cowardly scum like you in our country. Go find your "freedom" under the great, enlightened leadership of your beloved Taliban.
by DB (dberkheimer [at] altavista.com)
Grow up, Mohawk. Your mindless rantings are nasueating. Obviously, you believe that your rabid and baseless anti-American rhetoric somehow elevates you above those who rightly love America. Why you would believe such a ridiculous idea is a mystery; most likely it stems from your inability to form original thoughts due to your extremely limited intellect. Faced with awareness of your own mental inadequacy, you mindlessly regurgitate the communist drivel that you've been fed, and since most people are bright enought to disagree with your brainwashed rantings, you revel in your simplistic "superiority."

Patriotic Americans are rednecks and mass-murdering, brutally oppressive "religious" fanatics are rebels with a cause, i.e., your heroes.

Take your retarded anti-American, pro-terrorist sloganeering, ram them far up your unwiped, filthy ass, and hop aboard the next ship to Afghanistan. You're a disgrace to America and you're a disgrace to humanity. I would also suggest you take a shower and get a job, but these are of course, in very limited supply under the glorious freedom and prosperity governed by your heroes, the Taliban.

Cowardly filth.
by x
Could not agree more. If you don't love the US and the freedoms you enjoy here, GET OUT. The Taliban would have cut out your tongue for speaking out against their government the way you speak out against America. At least you enjoy your freedom of speech here.

Well, who cares. Host your hippie web sites, go to protests, and generate anti-american propaganda. Hell, even brainwash your children into believing the same garbage. 90% of America is behind this war. You hippies can put in your $0.02, but it will not matter.
by gotta love it
Take your retarded anti-American, pro-terrorist sloganeering, ram them far up your unwiped, filthy ass, and hop aboard the next ship to Afghanistan. You're a disgrace to America and you're a disgrace to humanity...Cowardly filth."

America: home of the free! If you disagree, you are subhuman filth! And when the police beat you senseless for exercising your constitutional rights, these folks will be cheering them on.

Dear idiots: the "anti-war" movement is an extension of the "anti-globalization" movement which is an extension of the worldwide movement against capitalism. Perhaps you've heard of it? Hundreds of thousands of them have been tearing apart western industrialized cities, and millions of them have been taking over third world cities. You know why it is so cheap for you to go buy a Palm Pilot? Because your government murders people into they are sufficiently survile enough to subsidize your consumer habits. We are coming for YOU.

On the other hand, your comforting TV will not show you this news, they can only feed you a poll to make you feel sure that what you think is what everyone thinks so you can sleep safe at night.

Idiots. Pure idiots.
by limpwristed
This is a different "movement" than you might have read about in your college textbooks, fratboys. This is the era of the black bloc, so come to one of the protests spouting your racist nationalist bullshit, and we'll throw YOU through a bank window instead of using a brick. Got it?
by Val Karie
It is funny to see the vitriol on this page, when none of us really know what is going on. I mean do you patriots "love it or leave it" types, know anything of what is happening in the region of Afghanistan?

We have had our CIA operatives in there the whole time. The Northern Alliance (who we are going to combine with a corrupt, exiled X King to form a new ruling entity in the country) are also human-rights-violating opium dealers (not freedom loving, democratitcally elected leaders.) There is tons of oil in Uzbekistan (any hidden agendas there?) Most civilized people, the world over, were very upset when President Bush went to shake hands with Ariel Sharon (the butcher and mass murder of women and children.) Sharon should be on trial for war crimes in the Hague (as should Bin Laden.) Also, how did the Taliban come into such power in Afghanistan? Do any of you know or care? How did Saddam Hussein come into such power in his country and why is he still ruling there (after our multi-billion dollar bombing campaign against the poor people of that region ... which is ironically Mesopatamia - the cradle of Western Civilization? ...) Answers anyone? No. Of course you know nothing of any of this because in our current beloved democracry, we have rogue elements doing dirty things all over the world. This is no democracry and to call it so is a gross farce. All you guttless "patriots" are not patriots at all, because if you were, you would be up in arms defendind the Constitution from the mindless, heroin-dealing, oil-hoarding militarists who have thrown a coup, bought the media and poisoned your mind with empty rhetoric, hollow consumerism and passive spectator lifestyles. You know nothing of your current situation. You are powerless to effect true change in your country or even in your local communities. Instead of engaging your fellow Americans in any meaningful debate - you spout angry vitriol.
The founding fathers would turn over in their graves, if they thought unquestioning zealots would be calling themselves Americans. You are the foul and lazy contagion that are the enemy of freedom, of true participation in any kind of real democracy. Your ideology must be fought against at every turn, if we are to restore democracy in this country and re-instate our Constitution. And, to those of you who in the armed services now ... what is it that you are sworn to defend? Can you remember? It's the Constitution. So, if some self-centered, me-generation idiot and his West-Texas oil buddies are taking actions against the Constitution ... your only legitimate military action should be against them. Democracy means INFORMED CONSENT ... remember?!? If the citizens don't know anything about what is happening and are never asked to decide on anything of any substance - THERE IS NO DEMOCRACY! So, if you love America, then fight for her now. She has many foes ... the monopolies, the corporate-owned media, the oil-sucking, opium dealing idiots that have undermined the Constitution - these must be rooted out, exposed and destroyed. All you out there (right, left and center) who claim to love America - now is the time to fight for her. Impeach Bush. Re-instate the Constitution. Bring back the free press and begin to actually participate in a democracy. Can we do this? Or, are we condemned to spiral down into a militaristic, nightmare of mindless jingoism and blind obedience? Our generation is the one to decide this ... NOW!
by DB (dberkheimer [at] altavista.com)
"America: home of the free! If you disagree, you are subhuman filth!"

No, if you disagree, you're just ignorant. Name one
country with more freedoms than America. (Besides, of course, your beloved Afghanistan--we all know how wonderfully free those people are.) Holland...maybe.
So what? Name one country that MATTERS that has more freedom.

What makes you filth is your utter contempt for the victims of the mass murder perpetrated on 9/11. What makes you filth is your treasonous denunciation of your country for defending itself. What makes you filth is your reaping the benefits of the most prosperous and free nation in the world, giving nothing in return but mindless abuse. What makes you filth is your self-righteous, pompous, pretentious posturings on anything and everything, both of which you know nothing about. What makes you filth is your protesting against America when 6,000 of her civilians were just brutally slaughtered by a group of fantacial, oppressive neanderthals. What makes you filth is your silence on the unbelievably oppressed, abused, and starving victims of your esteemed Taliban while you screech your mindless, delusional propaganda against the most generous and free nation in the world. America gives more in food and money to Afghanistan than the rest of the world combined. I am certain this is true for all the other starving nations in the world as well.

You're filth for all of the above reasons, and more that I can't think of or articulate right now. But of course, this being America, you're free to continue to spew your trite little platitudes and empty rhetoric. Just don't expect normal people to buy into your delusional rantings...or to like you...or to believe that you're anything but filth.

"And when the police beat you senseless for exercising your constitutional rights, these folks will be cheering them on."

Beautifully and typically idiotic. Not only can people spew their mindless drivel with impunity here in America (you are Exhibit A.), but if you uttered a single word that could even remotely be interpreted as being anti-Taliban in your beloved Afghanistan, your tongue would be cut off.
Cite ONE instance where police "beat a protestor senseless" (not that a beating would be necessary, most likely, to achieve that end) simply for exercising his constitutional right to free speech. Of course you can't, but I'm sure you will cite some incident where police and protestors clashed, blissfully unaware of, or contemptuously silent about, the fact that the protestors were infringing on the rights of others in any such in said incident.

"Dear idiots: the "anti-war" movement is an extension of the "anti-globalization" movement"

Exactly. In other words, you're not happy unless you're bitching and moaning about SOMETHING, preferably that which you know NOTHING about. Since the dreaded global capitalism, which is spreading the menace of economic prosperity throughout the world, much to your chagrin...since this "threat" is now much lessened in light of the marauding mass-murderers you so worship, you take up the more urgent issue, waving your pathetic little signs and chanting your naive little slogans. If it were feasible to do so, I am sure you would walk up to every family member of every murder victim in the WTC and slap them in the face.

"which is an extension of the worldwide movement against capitalism. Perhaps you've heard of it?"

Yes, we've heard of it and laughed at it. Perhaps you've heard of communism? Obviously so, since you are in such awe of its disproven theories. Ever hear of the USSR?

"Hundreds of thousands of them have been tearing apart western industrialized cities, and millions of them have been taking over third world cities. You know why it is so cheap for you to go buy a Palm Pilot? Because your government murders people into they are sufficiently survile enough to subsidize your consumer habits."

Your delusions are losing any semblance of reality...you need professional help.

"We are coming for YOU. "

Yeah, we're all scared to death of the snot-nosed, spoiled-brat, hypocritcal mob that gives you your misplaced sense of worth.

"Renee, I'm not sure about the origin of the picture above, but the text is definitely accurate. Unfortunately. Here is some stuff off the AP newswire about it. I found it at http://news.yahoo.com/"

It's called vengeance. It's 100% justified, 100% moral, and 100% human.

"Feeling light-headed, sickened and afraid? Me too."

Actually, I'm feeling strong, exulted, and righteously vengeful. Thanks for the concern.

by DB
"It is funny to see the vitriol on this page, when none of us really know what is going on."

Typical arrogant drivel. Who the hell are you to say what anybody else knows or doesn't know? I'm glad you made your little post; it reinforces all the stereotypes about you and your pompous, self-righteous, reflexively anti-American ilk

"I mean do you patriots "love it or leave it" types, know anything of what is happening in the region of Afghanistan?"

Probably a lot more than you do, actually. Beyond the evidence of your indefensible stance, I have your mish-mash of hallucinations, paranoia, propaganda, and half-truths below to support my statement. However, the only thing I NEED to know is that the ruling government of Afghanistan is harboring a murderer of thousands of innocents and will not allow "him" to be brought to justice. All else is irrelevant to the issue of military action. If you care to explain to us how such a horrific slaughter was justified, we're all ears. Tell it also to the orphaned children of all the victims.

By the way, no educated person claims that America is a democracy, as you seem to believe. It is a democratic republic, and probably the best one in the world. If you expect perfection, you go right ahead and expect away.

"We have had our CIA operatives in there the whole time. The Northern Alliance (who we are going to combine with a corrupt, exiled X King to form a new ruling entity in the country) are also human-rights-violating opium dealers (not freedom loving, democratitcally elected leaders.) There is tons of oil in Uzbekistan (any hidden agendas there?) Most civilized people, the world over, were very upset when President Bush went to shake hands with Ariel Sharon (the butcher and mass murder of women and children.) Sharon should be on trial for war crimes in the Hague (as should Bin Laden.) Also, how did the Taliban come into such power in Afghanistan? Do any of you know or care? How did Saddam Hussein come into such power in his country and why is he still ruling there (after our multi-billion dollar bombing campaign against the poor people of that region ... which is ironically Mesopatamia - the cradle of Western Civilization? ...) Answers anyone? No. Of course you know nothing of any of this because in our current beloved democracry, we have rogue elements doing dirty things all over the world. This is no democracry and to call it so is a gross farce. All you guttless "patriots" are not patriots at all, because if you were, you would be up in arms defendind the Constitution from the mindless, heroin-dealing, oil-hoarding militarists who have thrown a coup, bought the media and poisoned your mind with empty rhetoric, hollow consumerism and passive spectator lifestyles. You know nothing of your current situation. You are powerless to effect true change in your country or even in your local communities. Instead of engaging your fellow Americans in any meaningful debate - you spout angry vitriol.
The founding fathers would turn over in their graves, if they thought unquestioning zealots would be calling themselves Americans. You are the foul and lazy contagion that are the enemy of freedom, of true participation in any kind of real democracy. Your ideology must be fought against at every turn, if we are to restore democracy in this country and re-instate our Constitution. And, to those of you who in the armed services now ... what is it that you are sworn to defend? Can you remember? It's the Constitution. So, if some self-centered, me-generation idiot and his West-Texas oil buddies are taking actions against the Constitution ... your only legitimate military action should be against them. Democracy means INFORMED CONSENT ... remember?!? If the citizens don't know anything about what is happening and are never asked to decide on anything of any substance - THERE IS NO DEMOCRACY! So, if you love America, then fight for her now. She has many foes ... the monopolies, the corporate-owned media, the oil-sucking, opium dealing idiots that have undermined the Constitution - these must be rooted out, exposed and destroyed. All you out there (right, left and center) who claim to love America - now is the time to fight for her. Impeach Bush. Re-instate the Constitution. Bring back the free press and begin to actually participate in a democracy. Can we do this? Or, are we condemned to spiral down into a militaristic, nightmare of mindless jingoism and blind obedience? Our generation is the one to decide this ... NOW!"
by jeff
fucking liberals!
by anarchist
First of all, I'm an anarchist, not a liberal. There's a difference, but you probably aren't aware of it.

"What Makes You Filth" paragraph avoided as it is completely ad hominem attacks that obviously makes this over-macho, over-testosterone, repressed individual feel better about themselves.

re: police brutality at protests
You do realize that the police brutality at protests over the last 3 years in the USA is well-documented, right? You have seen the video from Seattle, DC, LA, Philly, SF, Quebec City, etc? You have seen cops approach peaceful protesters, rip off their gasmask, and directly apply tear gas to their face (against manufacturer recommendations)? You have seen cops fire tear gas canisters at people's head from a point-blank range right? You have seen the countless times police have approached a group of people sitting down, and proceeded to gas and beat them, right? Let's not even get into the daily police brutality that poor people and people of color must experience.

re: murder victims at WTC
Am I also to assume that you have the utmost sympathy for the millions of Iraqi children killed by your tax dollars? Or the peoople being tortured and killed in Colombia right now? The list goes on and on, Nicaragua, Ecuador, etc. The problem you have is that you value the life of a US citizen more than the life of someone who doesn't live here. That is called nationalism and racism.

"I've heard of [anti-capitalism movement] and laughed at it."
Is this supposed to show how open-minded you are or something? Or just how typically American and arrogant you are?

"Hundreds of thousands of them have been tearing apart western industrialized cities, and millions of them have been taking over third world cities. You know why it is so cheap for you to go buy a Palm Pilot? Because your government murders people into they are sufficiently survile enough to subsidize your consumer habits."

YOUR RESPONSE: "Your delusions are losing any semblance of reality...you need professional help."

Ummmm you do understand the economic model the world is running on right now right? You do understand why all those people are protesting sweatshops, right? Do you know what the material value of something is? Labor value? Consumer value? Let me explain it to you in the simplest (by necessity) terms possible: people in other countries are beaten and killed by riot police so that a fluid labor market can be maintained there, so that 12-year-olds in what amounts to slave labor can sew your Gap pants together so you can buy them cheaper than it cost to make them. It is the beauty of a profit system. Fact is, you can't make a profit on something without ripping someone off.

But you are too "strong, exulted and righteously vengeful" to even begin to comprehend this I imagine. U-S-A! U-S-A! BOMB EVERYONE!!

Again, when people ask, "how the fuck did people in the USA let this murderous barbaric system go on" .. hopefully someone will have saved this message exchange, because then they will be able to understand how ignorant the average american is about what is happening in the world.
by jim
"Actually, I'm feeling strong, exulted, and righteously vengeful. Thanks for the concern."

That feeling is called nationalist fervor. It is what has enabled governments to commit unbelievable atrocities throughout history.

Everyone who calls for death and destruction always believes they are justified. Do you think those people ever think, "wee! i am a heartless mass murderer for no reason!"

I feel very passionately right now also. But I hope you come to think about history, and other people's perspectives, and the grander context of what in the hell humans are doing on this planet.
by Val Karie
Well, the zeal that the vitriolic and anti-american "patriot" spouts at those who want to participate in democracy (whether a "democratic republic" or anything vaguely resembling what John Locke laid out in his Second Treatise - which inspired our American Government of representational democracy, by the way --- maybe the idiots need to go back to shcool for some basic civics lesson) ... anyway, this misdirected mal-content might be revealing a scarry situation. Americans like him have gotten so insulated and so reactionary at the same time - that they themselves are the enemies of freedom here and the willing supporters of covert murderers abroad.

Of course, this is nothing new. There was the "red scare" in recent decades (which turned many American against his fellow country for false and evil reasons.) And, recall the revolution that liberated us from the Brittish and the Brittish East India Company. Many duped loyalists and toadies of the empire had to be tarred-and-feathered. Idiot, toady loyalists were a problem then and this little whiner is a problem now. He fails to respond to any claim directly. He has revealed that he knows nothing of what his beloved leaders are doing. He is too emotional to really understand what is being said and is reacting to stereotypes of his own design ... setting up straw men, that he seems somewhat intent on knocking down.

We are all grieving our losses since 911 ... and they are substantial ... Many have lost loved ones, family and friends. And this why they cannot be mocked by a me-generation brat and his war-mongering idiot friends. Now we see how truly perilous it is to allow the CIA to continue to be our sole representatives in places like Afghanistan. It is too bad that the rogue elements of our dear country are busy doing business with the CIA-sponsored Taliban and fundamentalists and extreemists like this all over the planet. This is really putting the American people at great risk and we better get busy protecting ourselves and our dear country. But, do we have the courage? I mean, if our best evidence so far, points to Osama Bin Laden (CIA trained) and other elite ex-patriots from Saudi Arabia and Egypt ... isn't our little terrorist wich-hunt going to point to some current allies and big players in the middle east? ... Won't it ultimately lead back to the smokey chambers of the Pentagon? But, our little scared vitriolic whiner is too gutless to examine the truth. Others like him, will allow themselves to remain in the smoke-and-mirrors traps of the American PR industry and its puppets in the American Govt. And, thus, his ignorance and obstinance make him (the insulated american idiot) a real threat to democracy, decency and truth.

So, let us do honor to America ... to the intent of those who wrote the Bill of Rights and to the memory of those who died fighting for ammendments of increased freedom and participation for all. As the rights are rolled back, we will be confronting the red-coats, the red armies and the bureaucracies of control, the corporations of strangulating restrictions and total market control, others who are motivated by fear, a need to control and a lack of faith in their fellow humans. We must confront the evils of ignorance and fear and promote visions of greater peace and stability for the future. Some toadies too will be sacrificed, if they get in the way of freedom or mock our true mourning.

Now, rise and live like free beings ... or prepare to perish in the heat of truth and the passions for freedom and survival. I for one will not stand by and let my fellow americans be dissappeared by bureaucratic thugs with new authorities gained in fear. I for one, will oppose the racism, the self-imposed clampdown on hard-won freedoms and the secrecy of the current coup. I will defend freedom everywhere ... in the streets here and in the fields and avenues of the entire planet. So, be ware ... new forces of freedom have been awoken in the horror of the attack and in the response of petty men like Dick Cheney.

Scardycats and control-mongers will evolve or be banished to deserts of self-made oblivion. This is the way of righteousness, courage and love. The path of freedom and faith in our fellows will not be destroyed forever by these horrible events. Some will keep the vision pure and act boldly for tolerance and liberty.

Long-live Self-Determination, reason, health and love in these troubling times.

Love always, Val Karie
by DB
""Actually, I'm feeling strong, exulted, and righteously vengeful. Thanks for the concern.""

"That feeling is called nationalist fervor. It is what has enabled governments to commit unbelievable atrocities throughout history."

Call it whatever you like. For one thing, there is nothing inherently wrong with nationalism. More importantly, "that feeling" has more to do with human rage against murderers of innocents than nationalism. Never has violent retribution been more obviously justified than in this case...the freaking Vatican has condoned it, for Christ's sake (no pun intended.) This is the same vatican which so resolutely (but erroneously) opposes the death penalty, a stance with which I am sure you agree. And yes, violence has been justified in the past and will no doubt be justified in the future. It's simply never been more obviously so than now.

"Everyone who calls for death and destruction always believes they are justified."

No doubt. Everyone who calls for ANYTHING always believes he is justified. Sometimes they are right, sometimes they are wrong, even those who call for pacifism against those who would gladly kill us all given the chance, regardless of our policies. You had a point you were trying to make, maybe?

"Do you think those people ever think, "wee! i am a heartless mass murderer for no reason!" "

Do you think pacifists ever think, "gee, I don't give a flying fuck if thousands more innocents are slaughtered in the future by our enemies; gosh darn it, that's just the way it has to be"?

by DB
"Well, the zeal that the vitriolic and anti-american "patriot" spouts at those who want to participate in democracy (whether a "democratic republic" or anything vaguely resembling what John Locke laid out in his Second Treatise - which inspired our American Government of representational democracy, by the way --- maybe the idiots need to go back to shcool for some basic civics lesson)"

Maybe you need to learn how to form a coherent thought.
Christ almighty, get a fucking grip on yourself and try to communicate like a rational human being if that's remotely possible.

I "fail to respond to anything directly." You're a riot. YOU haven't responded to anything directly, you blithering idiot, illiterate idiot. You drone on monotonously, sharing your elementary-school views on history, and don't come close to one salient point.

"Love always, Val Karie"

That a stupid bitch like you even knows the word "love" is truly amazing.

Sorry to the rest of you that I had to resort to that, but I don't take kindly to being called an idiot by retarded sluts.
by DB
"First of all, I'm an anarchist, not a liberal. There's a difference, but you probably aren't aware of it."

I never called you a liberal, but if you're proud of the fact that you really believe people would behave civilly in a world without government, you have serious "issues."

""What Makes You Filth" paragraph avoided as it is completely ad hominem attacks that obviously makes this over-macho, over-testosterone, repressed individual feel better about themselves."

In other words, paragraph avoided because it rings true, and you have no defense. So be it.

"re: police brutality at protests
You do realize that the police brutality at protests over the last 3 years in the USA is well-documented, right? You have seen the video from Seattle, DC, LA, Philly, SF, Quebec City, etc?"

I live in Philadelphia, and I witnessed the absurd protests as well as the complete lack of police brutality. What I saw (as I was on my way to WORK, on my lunch break from WORK, and going home after WORK) was a bunch of upper-middle-class suburban white kids marching around protesting nothing and everything, sitting down in traffic like petulant toddlers demanding attention, and trying to disrupt the normal activities of a WORK day in any way possible. In short, they did everything they could to infringe upon the rights of others, and when they were moved along (they SHOULD have been arrested, but the police showed remarkable, if lamentable, restraint), they started chanting "this is a police state" as if they had ANY clue what an actual police state might be like.

By the way, a good number of these protestors felt the need to don black kerchiefs over their faces like little boys playing bad guys in westerns...these were, of course your fearless "anarchist" brethren. Everybody I know--and this is a fairly liberal city, unfortunately--felt nothing but contempt for and amusement at these protestors. "Free Mumia!" (because he's black, so his imprisonment is obviously racist) "End Capitalism!" "Stop Prosperity!"

You have seen cops approach peaceful protesters, rip off their gasmask, and directly apply tear gas to their face (against manufacturer recommendations)? You have seen cops fire tear gas canisters at people's head from a point-blank range right? You have seen the countless times police have approached a group of people sitting down, and proceeded to gas and beat them, right? Let's not even get into the daily police brutality that poor people and people of color must experience.

As to the other cities, I saw the violent vandalism of the protestors in Seattle, and the meaningless protests-for-the-sake-of-protests in Quebec.

"re: murder victims at WTC
Am I also to assume that you have the utmost sympathy for the millions of Iraqi children killed by your tax dollars?"

Lol. Oh, the sad thing is you no doubt believe that. You're so hopelessly brainwashed that even doing some simple arithmetic never even enters your warped little brain. Of course no Iraqi children have died as a result of U.S. policies, but let's pretend they did....let's even pretend (gasp!) MILLIONS of the have...let's ignore how preposterous that is for now. First of all, if any died at all, you can blame Mr. Hussein, who could have easily ended all embargos against Iraq simply by complying with the U.N. and allowing inspectors into his facilities. I know you worship him and no doubt feel that he should be allowed to stockpile chemical and biological weapons to his heart's content, and to then use them against his own people and the rest of the world, but that's the reality.

Secondly, what is your point? That because (in your brainwashed mind) Iraqi children have died, the thousands of innocents slaughtered in nyc should go unavenged? That their lives are rendered worthless? Brilliant logic.

"Or the peoople being tortured and killed in Colombia right now? The list goes on and on, Nicaragua, Ecuador, etc. The problem you have is that you value the life of a US citizen more than the life of someone who doesn't live here. That is called nationalism and racism."

Your argument in a nutshell: "people are suffering in other places, so you are obviously a racist and a nationalist for caring about your countrymen." If that's all you can come up with, I have no time for you. And, by the way, nationalism is not a bad thing, junior. Where did you get that idea? FEMinism on the other hand...

""I've heard of [anti-capitalism movement] and laughed at it."
Is this supposed to show how open-minded you are or something? Or just how typically American and arrogant you are?"

Your being opposed to capitalism is amusing...you have a better system in mind, perhaps? Communism, maybe? Socialism? Please, let's talk about that for awhile. And by the way, I assume you're not American? Or if you are, then you are arrogant, right...? Oh no, wait a minute! You're not a TYPICAL American, I get it now. Gee whiz, you're an ANARCHIST! Wowee, that makes you special...you get to have a really cool symbol, and when you go to protests, you can where a black rag over your face like and old-west bank robber! Also, you get to pretend that the naive, simplistic, pseudo-intellectual theories of anarchy are wonderfully sophisticated and original.

"Ummmm you do understand the economic model the world is running on right now right? You do understand why all those people are protesting sweatshops, right?"

Yeah, I do. I understand that people in impoverished nations have the opportunity to make more money than they ever have in their lives in these "sweatshops," and that the protestors find that offensive and want to take it away from them.

Grow up and take your pathetic little kerchief off, take the ridiculous Anarchy symbol off your wall, and go get a fucking job, you leech.
by DB
"This is a different "movement" than you might have read about in your college textbooks, fratboys. This is the era of the black bloc, so come to one of the protests spouting your racist nationalist bullshit, and we'll throw YOU through a bank window instead of using a brick. Got it?"

Get THIS, "homey:" You got a problem with nationalism, get the fuck out of the country, and take your mindless rage and violence with you. By the way, I'd love for you to try to throw me through a window for exercising my freedom of speech. Typical of your type: freedom of speech for everybody who shares your viewpoint.

Got it?

by DB
"Dear "Payback" ... YOU are the reason the U.S. is a target in the world. YOUR ignorance, YOUR complacency, YOUR lack of knowledge besides anything outside your little television. Out of the people who died in the U.S. attacks on Afghanistan, HOW MANY DO YOU THINK WERE TERRORISTS? The U.S. Government used OUR tax dollars to build up right-wing terrorists like Osama bin Laden (including osama bin laden) and now we must deal with it. Your ignorant and violent response is the reason everyone hates Americans, and I agree with them. You make me sick. It isnt about PAYBACK it is about BLOWBACK. dumbass"

You're a pathetic disgrace. You hate yourself so much? Easy fix. Get the fuck out. I'll be glad to drag your sorry carcass over the border by your balls myself.

"Everyone hates America?" Gee that's strange...then why do we have the support of every civilized nation in the world AND the support of most of the MUSLIM nations, you worthless piece of shit? You're disgusting. Bin Laden and the rest of your heroes just love snivelling little twits like you...don't get me wrong, he'd kill you just as dead as any other American, but he might let you live a little longer just so you could try to spread your disease of self-loathing to other Americans.

Just die, pig. Do the world a solid and just fucking DIE.
by spoiledkids
DB, were spoiled kids blown up in your city by the police? Was a spoiled kid imprisoned and denied a fair trial in your city? As steel plants shutdown around your state and working parents are forced to take 100-200% paycuts, is it their spoiled kids out protesting? You're ability to stereotype without thinking twice is ignorant and dangerous. Speaking of which ...

Whether you think "nationalism" is a good thing or a bad thing is meaningless. You care less about human life when it is "not American" ... and that makes you a disgusting pig in line with the Nazis and every other mindless regime which places arbitrary human constructions over the inherent value of human life.

And, yeah, when you are talking about U.S. government / bush administration / military-industrial complex vs. Yet Another Global South Country, it is R-A-C-I-S-M. the fact that you dont understand this only adds to everyone else's understanding of the problem.

And no one cares what you think of communism and socialism and trotskyism and anarchism and capitalism. The point is that people and communities deserve self-determination, not Unocal-sponsored death squads to shut down revolutions against capitalist regimes. I'm sure you don't even know the difference between all the leftist -isms. You don't have to. You're American. You're right.

When history records these events, you will be the fascist apologist that allowed millions of murders, suppression of democratic movements worldwide, and insane racism and nationalism to run rampant. Now THAT'S a coward.




by anarchist
"You're a pathetic disgrace. You hate yourself so much? Easy fix. Get the fuck out."

I don't hate myself. I hate nationalist toadies like you who lick the boots of any military leader who demands blood. You aren't American --- you belong in Nazi Germany, getting all worked up in a frenzy about how "inferior and evil" an entire group of people are. Bomb, DB, we must bomb!! Fucking idiot.

""Everyone hates America?" Gee that's strange...then why do we have the support of every civilized nation in the world AND the support of most of the MUSLIM nations, you worthless piece of shit?"

Hey dumbass --- remember the nuclear holocaust we caused in this world? The only nuclear holocaust EVER? U.S. bombs. Remember Nixon's madman cambodia napalm/bombing plan? Mass murder by U.S. bombs. It is straight Machiavelli (go to google if you need an education, which it sounds like you do) ... it is better to be feared than to be liked. It is not just Muslim nations that hate the U.S. It is indigenous people like Zapatatistas. It is labor organizers and community organizers through Central America, Colombia, Venezuela, Peru, Argentina, Brazil. It is the ANC in Africa. It is the Palestinians. For a long time, it was the Japanese. It is the MILLIONS of people that protest against U.S. policies just about every goddamn day of the year for the last 30 years. BUT YOUR TV DOESNT TELL YOU THAT SO IT MUST NOT BE TRUE.

"Bin Laden and the rest of your heroes just love snivelling little twits like you..."

Mmmm... think a little harder. Bin Laden loves the idea of stupid cowboy macho Americans who leap into war. Bin Laden wants to start a holy war, and he knew that the USA would start killing innocent people immediately. And he was right. World War III? We shall see.
by Slacker65
DB,

Holland??? S'cuse me, but it's been the Nederlands for quite some time. (But that probably explains a lot about you: you're stuck in the 1950's!)

A more free country? How about Canada, where you can at least legally grow marijuana and healthcare is for everyone.

You're not even worth debating. You're so fucking brain-washed that it would be impossible to de-program you. But I take consolation from the fact that you have no life, demonstrated by the amount of time you have to sit around and type rants. I'm sure you have no friends except for other boot-licking goose-steppers like yourself. You probably have your little Nazi meetings in your basement, secretly saluting the Swazstika (sp?). Take a lesson from Hitler: blow your brains out and do us all a favor! We'd hate to have to come for you...
by DB
"And, yeah, when you are talking about U.S. government / bush administration / military-industrial complex vs. Yet Another Global South Country, it is R-A-C-I-S-M. the fact that you dont understand this only adds to everyone else's understanding of the problem."


Stop it, you're killing me....oh jesus christ, i can't
stop laughing. Ok..ahem. I suggest you go look up
"R-A-C-I-S-M," in your dictionary/communist manifesto.
One thing you might notice is that it pertains to RACE, not nationality. Shocking, huh?

But let's pretend that you weren't so pathetically confused and actually mentioned the fact that our current enemies happen to be of a different skin color before you trotted out your ever-less-meaningul-thanks-to-folks-like-you charge of racism. By your "logic," the U.S. can only defend itself against enemies who happen to have the same skin color as most Americans. Absolutely brilliant.

You want to level charges of bigotry, oppression and hate? How about starting with bin Laden, who vows to kill all non-Muslims? That that includes Christians and Jews no doubt disturbs you very little. However, it also includes Hindus, Buddhists, and (brace yourself) even atheists and "Wiccans." How about addressing the Palestinians who want nothing less than the evacuation (dead or alive, preferably dead) of all Jews from Israel?

Of course you don't address these pillars of hate because they are "revolutionaries," and attacking them does not fit in with your subversive agenda to destroy your own homeland.

Save your "military-industrial complex" absurdities for your next hippie love-in. I'm sure it makes a lot more sense after a couple of bong hits; most things seem to. Better yet, go give that kind old teddy bear bin Laden a big old hug and whisper sweet nothings like "amerikka's military-industrial complex" in his ear. He will get all misty on you, and your unique compassion and love will win the day for peace and love everywhere, and people around the world will hold hands and dance in fields of wild flowers beneath the rainbows.
by DB
"Holland??? S'cuse me, but it's been the Nederlands for quite some time. (But that probably explains a lot about you: you're stuck in the 1950's!)"

You're not excused.
American Heritage Dictionary, 1998, Geographic Entries:
Holland: 1. The Netherlands (note, NOT "Nederlands," you illiterate moron.

I suppose you think that since you're aware that Holland is aka 'The Nederlands' (sic), you are very worldly. Of course you are. Here's a cookie. Tomorrow, the topic will be what natives of 'da nederlands' call themselves. Don't worry, we'll take it real slow.

"A more free country? How about Canada, where you can at least legally grow marijuana and healthcare is for everyone."

Um, if you recall, the question was, one country that MATTERS. Tell me what great contributions Canada has made to the world. Furthermore, Canada's health care system is a mess, but of course you wouldn't realize that. And if growing marijuana is all that you can come up with as evidence of the much broader freedoms of Canada, you've proved my point. Of course you wouldn't realize that either.

"You're not even worth debating."

Then what the hell are you doing, moron?

"You're so fucking brain-washed..."

Yeah, I'm brainwashed because I don't go around intoning things like "military-industrial complex" and "capitalistic oppression" and "free Mumia (we're not sure why, but he IS black, and he IS in prison, so...free Mumia)"

You're the brainwashed zombie, but of course you wouldn't realize THAT either, because of its very truth.

"that it would be impossible to de-program you. But I take consolation from the fact that you have no life, demonstrated by the amount of time you have to sit around and type rants."

Actually, it takes about two minutes to respond to these juvenile little nothings that you consider so astute.

"I'm sure you have no friends except for other boot-licking goose-steppers like yourself."

Now you're just projecting. 90% of America supports this war, so if either of us is lacking in friends based on his position on this issue, it is obviously you. Your circle of friends comes from a much smaller pool. Namely, that comprised of programmed, communist, freedom-hating, prosperity-hating, self-loathing, hypocritical, unwashed, unemployed, subversive traitors utterly lacking any capability of independent thought.

"We'd hate to have to come for you..."

Yeah, you got at least ONE thing right. You WOULD hate to come for me. Junior.
by right one
"Now you're just projecting. 90% of America supports this war, so if either of us is lacking in friends based on his position on this issue, it is obviously you."

DB, right on, Aryan Brother! I have read these posts and I see now that these weak, ignorant VERMIN can only offer attempts of understanding of cultures, social ideas, and ways to live that are WRONG. Under George Bush, God's 21st century crusader, we shall purge the EARTH of ALL VERMIN, including that vermin which dare place the lives of others (no matter how innocent they are) over our American brothers! And when we are done, and the radiation clouds hang overhead, we can be PROUD that our barbarism and ability to butcher has been unmatched.

by Slacker65
DB, you ignorant slut,

Nederlands is what the Dutch call their county, like the Germans refering to their homeland as Deutchland. But you wouldn't know that being the isolationist, xenophobe that you are. Your comments on Canada exemplify this beautifully.

On healthcare, you say Canada's system is a mess. Where are your facts? You pull shit out of your ass, you pompous fuck, and then act like it's truth. The U.S. healthcare system is MUCH worse than the Canadian. Anyone with half a brain knows that (I guess that excludes you, wanker-boy DB!)

As for you and your 'patriotic' buddies, I didn't see 10,000 of you out on the streets last weekend. (Not including any bread-n-circus events like Foolball or Debaserball.) On the contrary, last weekend I was with 10,000 of my brothers and sisters in the streets, united in our opposition to the war in Afghanistan. So ram that up your tight, conservative, puckering asshole!

All your jaw-flapping is idle BS; we have already reclaimed our streets. But you wouldn't know, hiding away behind your computer the way you do.

This is a new age. The younger generations will no longer sit back while corporate greed destroys the planet. Your kind are a vanishing breed who will be isolated and shunned. We will save this planet from the likes of you... or die trying.
by ...
Ignorant hippies can't be reasoned with. DB and others, why waste your time with them? They are a small minority in the US. Their extremist views may have been tolerated in the past, but with America united behind a cause, they will have no effect.

I suggest all the hippies, anarchists, and the fucking black bloc bad asses try this shit country with a less tolerant government. Any government in the Middle East would extinguish the whole lot of you without a second thought.
by DB
"DB, right on, Aryan Brother! I have read these posts and I see now that these weak, ignorant VERMIN can only offer attempts of understanding of cultures, social ideas, and ways to live that are WRONG. Under George Bush, God's 21st century crusader, we shall purge the EARTH of ALL VERMIN, including that vermin which dare place the lives of others (no matter how innocent they are) over our American brothers! And when we are done, and the radiation clouds hang overhead, we can be PROUD that our barbarism and ability to butcher has been unmatched."

(Whispers): I have decoded your message, comrade! We will crush the fascists who would defend themselves against murderers. We will crush the best engine for economic prosperity in the world, capitalism, and all citizens will be equal in their bleak destitution.

I agree that those who would defend themselves are obviously racist scumbag Amerikkkans; what other reason could there be for their warlike insistance upon defending themselves against those who are, shockingly, of a slightly different ancestry? Well we know that those who are "of color" should have license to slaughter at will, for they are the oppressed ones.

Our day will come, comrade: the world shall stand united in a glorious, global bread line. WAR IS PEACE. PAIN IS PLEASURE. comrade number 649-A-321 over and out.
by DB
"DB, you ignorant slut,

Nederlands is what the Dutch call their county"

Your continuing grasp of common knowledge amazes me yet again. Native Italians call their country "Italia," but when speaking English, as it seems to me we were, one says "Italy."

"On healthcare, you say Canada's system is a mess. Where are your facts? You pull shit out of your ass, you pompous fuck, and then act like it's truth. The U.S. healthcare system is MUCH worse than the Canadian. Anyone with half a brain knows that (I guess that excludes you, wanker-boy DB!)"


-----
ITEM:

By DAVID CRARY
Associated Press

TORONTO -- Locked in a showdown with doctors over health-care funding, Canada's largest province is arranging for pregnant women to get medical treatment in the United States.

The dispute, so bitter that many Ontario doctors have threatened to stop taking new patients, is the latest sign that Canada's public health-care system is in crisis.

Hospitals across Canada are closing as provincial governments slash funding. Doctors are emigrating across the U.S. border in quest of higher salaries. And conservative politicians increasingly are raising the once-taboo possibility of revising the health system to allow some privately funded care. ....

END CITATION

Reference: http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/world/96/10/19/canada.html
--------

The article continues exposing the wonders of socialized health care, but who can trust anything from the Associated Press, for God's sake?

"As for you and your 'patriotic' buddies, I didn't see 10,000 of you out on the streets last weekend."

One obvious explanation is that we don't have anything to protest, since we SUPPORT the action...pretty complicated, huh?

Alternatively, it might be because we happen to have JOBS. We contribute to society, rather than leech off of it and try to drag it down.

"(Not including any bread-n-circus events like Foolball or Debaserball.)"

Your commie-speak is amusing.

"On the contrary, last weekend I was with 10,000 of my brothers and sisters in the streets, united in our opposition to the war in Afghanistan."

Unite with those who want to see all Americans killed and "take back your streets." The rest of us will continue our jobs, and continue to be productive members of society as you claim your meaningless title to streets we have paid for.

Your kind will grow old and frustrated as they recognize the ultimate futility of their pro-terrorist agendas. Then they will splinter. Some will resort to terrorism and become inmates or carcasses. Others will grow up and contribute rather than sponge and destroy. Others will simply burn out into obscurity. You are malcontents without any sort of viable cause. You are therefore inconsequential.
by DB
Don't know why I didn't respond to this previously--it's just too fucking precious.

"Spoiled kid" wrote:

"DB, were spoiled kids blown up in your city by the police? Was a spoiled kid imprisoned and denied a fair trial in your city? As steel plants shutdown around your state and working parents are forced to take 100-200% paycuts..."

Gee whiz, I didn't realize that people were taking 200% pay cuts!!! Wowie, so instead of making $40,000 per year, now they have to PAY $40,000 per year just to work! Wow, you're right, I'm joining the communist party right away.

And by the way, the steel plant closings in PA happened a long time ago, Paco. You really need to get with the times. And for God's sake, man, at least make your now obvious lies (200% pay cuts. oh god, you people are fucking priceless) POSSIBLE.
by db
DB, are you fucking stupid? The steel plants have been closing down since the mid-80s under Reagan, but there are many that still operate in the steel belt and have been going out of business with periodic layoffs for a long time.

It isn't worth arguing with you; you don't accept facts or attempt any dialogue. Thank god your sick fucking kind is dying off.
by Slacker65
The Houston man who caught Barry Bonds' 70th HR ball explained that as he dove for the ball he felt 'a rush of estrogen'. Do I have to say anything more about sports fans?

And DB, you're still a loser. You paint me as a 'commie' to suit your needs: ad hominen attacks are always used by your kind to discredit anyone who is not brainwashed. You're as pathetic as they come; belittling anything you cannot understand. As the Fourth Reich chips away at our personal freedoms, your kind applaud and rejoice. Soon we will all be mindless, homogeneous $heep, ready to follow our selected leaders where ever they may lead. Should we start saying 'heil Bush' maybe?

Screw that! We will fight and win! Too many innocent victims have paid the price already, while scum like you float on top. The whole reason Shrub put $40 billion into the intelligence (and I use the word loosely) community is to fight the anti-globalization movement, just like the new wire-tapping laws. I'm starting to think that they are also trying to scare people from traveling in order to limit the size of protests. The story on the Greyhound bus incident just didn't sound right; couple it with all the new security and searches at the airports and you see where I'm going...restriction of travel. This is how authoritarian regimes limit the people's ability to interact.

But it is too late...the cat is out of the bag and our message has reached our intended target. The more you clamp down on us, the more recruits we will gain. We will grow exponentially, while your numbers shall diminish. We have already made significant progress; now it is time to clean up the rest of the garbage. We'll start with you!
by berkeley student
Check this out:

http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Edromero/diplomacy.swf

If more people could show such compassion, the world would be a happier
place for us all. Enjoy.
by RELATIVE
DB, FROM WHAT SOURCES DO YOU DERIVE YOUR INFORMATION?
by RELATIVE
ALSO DB - DO YOU EXPECT US TO TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY WHEN YOUR COMMENTS ARE FULL OF DEROGATORY ATTACKS ON ANYONE THAT DISAGREES WITH YOUR PERSPECTIVE?
by Free Spirit
Jesus! You guys are insane! I've never heard so much crap coming from two obvious radicals, one on the right and one on the left. How do you guys can be expected to even communicate when your minds are both so narrow-minded and obtuse! Will you listen to yourselves and see how absurd it sounds? You're too busy taking advantage of a dreadful situation to spread your own political ideas. Do any of you REALLY care that there were innocent victims on BOTH SIDES and that everybody is mourning now, some for americans and some for middle easterns? Are any of you guys capable of mourning for both? Maybe then you could find a middle ground to have an intelligent conversation instead of letting your political egos talk for yourselves.
by DB

Some genius wrote...

"DB, are you fucking stupid? The steel plants have been closing down since the mid-80s under Reagan, but there are many that still operate in the steel belt and have been going out of business with periodic layoffs for a long time.

It isn't worth arguing with you; you don't accept facts or attempt any dialogue. Thank god your sick fucking kind is dying off"

First of all, the largest wave of steel plant closings
began in the 70s, you imbecile. I live here, I know. Secondly, as far as "facts" go, none have been presented
for me to "accept." A typical example of your "facts" is: "200% pay cuts." Do the math on your own lies and figure it out.

Thank god your pathetic, anti-everything kind is getting stupider by the second; it's so much easier for the average person to recognize how idiotic you are.
by DB
Slacker65 wrote:

"...But it is too late...the cat is out of the bag and our message has reached our intended target. The more you clamp down on us, the more recruits we will gain. We will grow exponentially, while your numbers shall diminish. We have already made significant progress; now it is time to clean up the rest of the garbage. We'll start with you!"

You know, your Robin Hood complex is hilarious. You watch way too many movies, and you make a lousy Moses. You realize, of course, that outside your ridiculous little circle of unbathed, unemployed, unproductive, leech-like friends, everybody is laughing at you and your adolescent rantings, don't you?

It might be different if you had a focus, but you're anti-everyfuckingthing. It might be different if you had a clue, but you take up every "cool" cause without a shred of knowledge. It might be different if you contributed anything at all to society, but all you can do is whine and try hard to be disruptive (usually succeeding in nothing more than making an ass of yourself.)

So go put on your little wild-west bank robber "anarchist" outfit and break stuff and/or sit in the streets like a baby. It's really quite a gas.

by anonymous anarchist
I can not believe the ignorant rage comming from your mouth. You obviously know nothing about the black block or anarchism for that matter. These protests serve to build a sense of solidarity and togetherness for everyone in the movement. We realize that protests are not going stop the oppression. Don't be so quick to judge something you obviously aren't to involved in.
As far as the black block goes, They function on a very successful premise. The vandalism is a spit in the face to american society that considers property at the same status as human life. police call this an act of violence. How can damaging a material thing such as a window be considered an act of violence. Black Bloc actions are a direct attack on market liberalism and materialism. It has been proven in various parts of the country that black bloc actions have been successful in running corporate owned buisinesses out of communities because of their issurance premiums going up. Don't forget that corporations such as nike and gap are now growing bigger then third world, periphery countries. you don't see this as a problem?
As far as sweatshop issues. Do you realize the kind of environmental and health hazards these industrial giants inflict on periphery countries. Mexico is a prime example with the export industries opr Maguiladora factories. These factories are stategically set up in border towns, aliienated from good soil and water, making it impossible for people to be self suffient anyways. These transnational corporations purposely set factory up like this so these people don't know any other alternatives. We protest and try to educate these people on the facts that they have a choice and alternative. As far as these health and environment issues. There have been serious amounts of waste from these factories being improperly dumped in the neighboroods of workers. As far as health issues, what about the increases of hepatetis and physical deformities of the workers in these communities? Let me ask you a question. Would you work in these factories? If not, what the hell makes you think these other people want to.
You seemed very angry about people simply voicing their views. I can't help but wonder where all this anger you have comes from. Could it be that you are mad at us anarchists because we have decided to welcome a non abusive lifestyle and decided to stand up and say NO to the bullshit. or were you so angry on october 22nd because you had to go do someone eles's work. If so I am sorry you had to. liberate yourself. Why not accept anarchy into you heart?
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